Death Spiral - We're in an epidemic of narcissism and bad decision making (with Jordan B. Peterson)

Just like an army of ants in the animal kingdom, individuals, groups and even whole societies are sometimes caught up in a death spiral. A vicious cycle of self-reinforcing dysfunctional behavior. According to prof. Schippers, a death spiral is characterized by continuous flawed decision making where one bad decision leads to another, which can even lead to the collapse of an individual, group or society. This conversation with Prof. Jordan B. Peterson was recorded backstage at RAI Amsterdam sept 25th 2022, just before his Beyond Order show. You can hear the venue calling people to their seats (and Prof. Peterson to the stage).
Prof. Jordan Peterson says that an important problem is wilful blindness, people keep themselves intentionally unaware of facts, i.e. they turn a blind eye. Another problem he points out is an epidemic of narcissism, or self-love. As a solution he thinks people should become more involved in society. In order for people to find out what they can contribute to society, participating in self-authoring (www.selfauthor...) and Letters to the future (www.greatcitiz...) is a good start.
Also, reading and signing the Great Citizens Declaration (www.greatcitiz...) might be a good first step on escaping the ant mill and creating a brighter future for ourselves and the world.
On Follow the Science: followthescien...

[@wheres_bears1378]

I’m old enough to remember a time when taking a photo of yourself was considered an embarrassing thing

[@klang180]

Come on, most people still feel like that. You shouldn't think the online sphere is representative.

[@555NIKKI555]

me too!

[@IgnacioAguilarToledo]

Whaaat I'm actually surprised by that. I can tell I'm from a different generation

[@wheres_bears1378]

@@IgnacioAguilarToledo it’s true, there was a time for example if you were on holidays and wanted a picture in front of the Eiffel Tower, you would politely ask a passerby if they could take a photo of you because that was less embarrassing than standing there taking a photo of yourself, true story 😂 I’m not that old either I’m 39

[@phoenixfire2445]

@@klang180 I can appreciate what you added; the real world seems to have plenty decent strangers in real life and thousands of evil ones on TV and social media. Still, many human beings broadcast their image shamelessly. Some ppl can't go kayaking without their phone in the kayak so they can get pics or video of themselves kayaking (except they're not even kayaking in that moment). Some don't have much to say about something unusual or noteworthy, until they hit record to show the thing before they can even say whatever good thing they saved to say about it(my buddy and i found a snake and he knew every little thing about snakes, but ONLY after he suddenly pulled out a phone to record video; made himself sound nice and smart then). I love that you remind ppl to pump the breaks on summing up modern humanity. Still, I make fun of those above examples specifically because NOBODY used to take pictures of their own self. Some do this every week, or even every day now.

[@rogeliorodriguez8518]

Narcissism is why I stopped using all social media. It was weird how people would post stuff to show off. A vacation here, new car, selfies, celebrities, etc… The worst was all the post of their own thoughts on big issues followed by the fighting. At least on KZbin the comment section everyone is equal in a way. Social media is toxic.

[@wonderlife62]

You don’t find it weird that Jordon Peterson is everywhere on the internet?….he’s just as much addicted to his own persona as the rest

[@spontaneousbootay]

@@wonderlife62 he has his own yt channel and dozens that share his content. How is that weird?

[@dallassegno]

and yet here you are

[@stefaniegodfrey6155]

Yes, me as well?! I gave social media a try when it first came out but overwhelming felt the inevitable dangers if the trap. The veil was lifted offof my eyes or maybe it was actually never over them cuz I clearly seen the dangers uncomfortably and hated the way everyone I knew was embarrassing themselves with some fake b.s life they were so addicted to living out on some fake reality platform they could disappear in. I was born with a character trait of being very disturbed by the EVIL little personalities manifesting hate and bulling of the souls less fortunate. insecurities being taken out on others was very evidently obvious to me at a very young age. The arrogance in men have turned me off. Confuses me how woman actually feel so important when a. asshole jerk gives them attention? Barbarians couldn't even be this naive. Blows my mind how fb has survived taken over the world. My friends and family tried pulling me into their fantasy world online and I refused to look that stupid connected to the entire world to witness....it feel like there is not many people who feel the same way I do? Keeping up with the Joneses seems to be more important. This phenomenon has DESTROYED OUR ENTIRE WORLD.

[@snoozyq9576]

​@@wonderlife62 do you see him bragging about his wealth though and flashing cars at us? do you not see the difference?

[@peterjanssen5901]

I make a lot of bad decisions. Not because I'm a narcissist, but I'm a moron.

[@MatthewMaranell]

I feel ya brother 😂

[@igorpisarev1898]

Saaame

[@dallassegno]

me too

[@Sam-re1ez]

Moron psychosis , common malady among Peterson fanboys.

[@hypolyxa7207]

Hahahahaahaha. Thanks for a good laugh, Peter!

[@MH3GL]

"An epidemic of narcissism" ☝️ There is no better description available to describe our current world.

[@poerava]

Yes. Yes there is. There are many.

[@notcrazy6288]

@@poerava Well then name a few instead of sniping from the bushes.

[@Aleph-Zero]

I'm going to pause right there, think about it, if I like it, I'll press play, if I don't like it I'll open a new tab... Why can't I apply these decisions to people?

[@outlander234]

I would say that's wrong assessment. Everyone can be narcissistic but that's quite alot different from true narcissism which is personality disorder. You cannot become a narcissist, you can do similar behaviors but you cannot become one. They are formed by some trauma in their life that hasnt been resolved, mostly childhood or young age. They are very sad and depressed people inside, they are damaged people and as of now there is no cure.

[@MH3GL]

@@outlander234 wouldn't it be a fair argument that there are more people - especially young adults and children - with psychological issues and on psychosis medications than ever before? And, no, it's not because there are more drug available, it's because this is the world we've created, it's what we've raised them to be. So I agree with you, it is a medical issue. And we're in an epidemic of it.

[@Gavriel-og6jv]

0:33 There is no punishment for narcissism online and neither will be because narcissism *is functional to the online world*. Think about it: social media lives off narcissism, dating sites live off narcissism, clothing, apparel, electronics industries live off narcissism, and the list is never ending.

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

Exactly! Narcissism is TAUGHT and ENCOURAGED these days.

[@coutureleotards]

I quit a job because a person had clear signs and text book Grandiose Narcssism and was very egocentric. Yall, I'm not exaggerating I feared for my life because I was the target 😢. I could've moved to another place but I didn't even want to be associated with the company at all after that. This behavioral issue is destroying people's work, marriage, friendships and trust. It's horrible when you are caught in the web of an extreme narcissistic 😔

[@greatcitizensmovement2932]

Indeed, a lot of damage is often done by highly narcissistic people. Sorry to hear you had to go through that (Michaela)

[@MrKrazykieran]

Imagine being the Web:o

[@duderama6750]

Yup, they can do a lot of damage. You can spot them by their desperate courting of attention. Ring any bells for you?

[@MrKrazykieran]

@@duderama6750 pot kettle black

[@deplorablemike3349]

I know...i walked by this young 20 year old female at work w/o saying excuse me and she erupted in anger at me, complained to a mgr. and got me fired. 6 years there, no writeups and got along with everyone. Total entitled narcissism

[@kbeetles]

Narcissism will be quickly negated by REAL hardship.

[@Bee983]

😊

[@royfr8136]

??

[@J40JesusIsLord]

I'd like to see Dr. Peterson and Dr. Ramini talk about narcissism

[@adamorly2971]

I've had concerns about Ramani... not sure she's at the same level.

[@simsim876]

Yes this would be an insightful intellectual collab - they see through narcissism, the detrimental effect it has on society and help to raise further awareness

[@adaptercrash]

Apparently it's attractiveness

[@nickieglazer33]

@@adamorly2971 Professor, Dr. & a psychopathic narcissist Sam Vaknin would be preferable.

[@jackiejames3898]

Yes!!!!!🌟

[@allisnotwhatitseems.]

He engaged in a serious talk right before a planned serious talk. The man's talent, ability, wisdom, intellect and compassion is limitless.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

His advice is genuinely the very best on this. If you are struggling, and need to move forward, and life is chaos, start with reducing the chaos is one small manageable area. That's it. Cleaning your living space is the very best place to start, even if its just part of your space.

[@peacesound1101]

Did you know anyone who cleans up the clutter? There is a psychological need which has to be made conscious to make that change. Modern society lacks any belief in SYMBOLS. Clutter is symbolic of being anti-spacial. Buying or finding cheap and useless even broken things is symbolic of "wealth equals owning a lot of stuff" not the quality of things as having a wealthy life (wealth rhymes with health; a healthy body and mind functions with space, always advances the quality of property). Changing one's place into a clean, organized personal environment IS NOT A SMALL THING. You are probably like me, always on the side of orderliness all of your life, so for us it's a no brainier to have a well ordered life because it's functioning cannot be effective otherwise.

[@alanski2005]

So happy to watch this great interview with two totally sane people.

[@LeeAdrian777]

You and your awareness of being.

[@sonictsunami6779]

The moment "selfies" and "foodie shots" became part of pop culture should have been a great indicator.

[@Ryan-xq3kl]

the world is absolutely beautiful without "social" media

[@sonictsunami6779]

@@Ryan-xq3kl I agree. Stopped participating in FB and Twitter a while ago.

[@mikefozzer6415]

@@Ryan-xq3kl What's beautiful about people suffering, wars, energy crises, inflation and so on.. Perception of each individual matters, yours is accurate for you, but not for others...

[@Olivia-bs5wj]

@Aphrodite Health Coaching same here. But men praises women who upload new selfies all the time

[@megret1808]

We worry about the existential danger of AI in the future but social media is already destroying us

[@Gransterman]

I bet social media is priming us for AI

[@sherriflemming3218]

Social media is a platform for narcissism.

[@irrelevantideology9640]

And social media is largely ran off of ai. This IS what Elon warned us about.

[@iprophecy6768]

@@Gransterman so then why do you have it? It blows my mind how all you people have Facebook instagram an TikTok, it’s literally just having an Internet website about yourself. Just having an account is literally narcissistic. Why do you have an internet page about yourself? Very bizarre. I’m 28, an never once did I make a MySpace, sound cloud, Facebook, nothing. The fact you people have these things is wild.

[@johntuohy1867]

AI- through algorhythms and social media leads down the rabbit hole of cognitive dissonance. Ants in circles.

[@joshturner1334]

I learned about narcissism like 2 years ago.. Then i left a 9 year relationship, left a job, cut like 2 friends out and 1 guy from a group of ppl i share my hobby with. Ive NEVER been happier. Idk how i didnt see it before i would just try to brush off or ignore the bs and just chalk it up to maybe there having a bad day and im lucky i can control my emotions better than them. I put up with a lot for really no other reason than wanting to do what i thought was right and not wanting to deal with that crap atm. You dont have to put up with other ppl treating you like trash because of their fragile little egos. Ppl treat you how YOU let them treat you. These ppl will NEVER change stop wasting your time, youll be mad you didnt do it sooner, fuck them its not your job to do anything for anyone else.

[@outlander234]

Same here. Just 6 months ago I had no idea what this actually is but now i can spot it right away and really cant stand being around them. I feel like most of my life has been a lie since I have been surrounded by them without my knowing...

[@joshturner1334]

@@outlander234 same dude for real. Some ppl just attract them for one reason or another. I just know exactly how to stop that shit asap now though, give them nothing, be indifferent to everything they say no matter what. Or better yet stay away from them, Sometimes you cant though

[@outlander234]

@@joshturner1334 Emphats do, we are their biggest supply. Yeah I am in house sharing with one of them... Ugh... I avoid him at all times. After reasearching and thinking about this, reflecting on my life, my conclusion and alot of others is that this is demonic. I know it sounds crazy but fact is this disorder, despite all these decades of psychologists knowing about it is still completely untreatable and unmanagable.

[@Svenshine]

@@joshturner1334 hi good for you. Did the relationship parter react by being all nice at first and saying “idk why I was like that I’ll stop I promise”, but then you still broke up with them and then did they flip from super nice to super mean and try to defame and destroy you???

[@Starday723y]

@@joshturner1334 A friend of mine told me my mother is a narcissist... I thought grandiose was the only type. Boy was I wrong. Look up Dr. Ramani.

[@daliborzak2485]

It's amazing that Dr. Peterson takes every opportunity and spreads his knowledge everywhere he goes.

[@Hiddenplace414]

This man is such a treasure.

[@Sanctified57]

He is indeed. Let’s enjoy him while we can. I live with the apprehension that all the good guys will be permanently blocked from every social media platform in the not too distant future

[@Sam-re1ez]

Oh Jordan, my Jordan, you are my lord, my Yahweh, my sun, my Octoberfest. I yearn to breathe your air, to smell your Colon. JP , professor, sir, dr.,🤪🤪🤣🤣

[@irenelopez3235]

He is to be protected at all costs.

[@richeaton7436]

better said: Epidemic of Narcissism wrapped in Cognitive Dissonance

[@tehehe4all]

Life is too short to have to deal with so many narcissistic people, there’s only enough space for 1 narcissist in a room and it should be oneself

[@peacesound1101]

The drawback of healthy narcissism is flaunting individualism maybe.

[@luish777]

Finally a doctor said it I'm a ret. firefighter I even noticed the change in people at work when Facebook came out.

[@chordata1983]

this is a phenomenal exchange - one of the rare occasions when listening to people is actually useful, helpful and comforting and ...strengthening

[@psychcowboy1]

Did Peterson say something intelligent?

[@davidhick964]

He did.

[@AnnaBrees]

It is speeding up. I’m a former BBC journalist and now we can all do what I used to do at speed. Film edit and publish via the mobile. I found this interesting. We are going forward in a circle

[@duderama6750]

It must be terrifying to see high school kids who do it better than you did, and you can't keep the gate shut anymore.

[@geralldus]

Being able to shoot and edit video is a minor part of being a jounalist.

[@sbeast64]

Make Narcissists Humble Again!

[@LLShiningOtter]

that is brillainat

[@arendpsa]

Good you speak to Jordan Michaela. Despite his fame, he can't save humanity on his own. We need to help him.

[@williamgreenfield9991]

The idea that Jordan Peterson is going to save humanity (with or without our help) is ludicrous. If you look up the word "narcissist" in the dictionary there is a picture of Peterson.

[@pappav77]

@@williamgreenfield9991 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@flyinghead1147]

@@williamgreenfield9991 Bro the judgment you have inside. Good luck. The person above wanted to say we need to contribute with people that try to help. That know the mind, world and are exploring ideas.

[@williamgreenfield9991]

@@flyinghead1147 How is it not "judgement" for these two to claim the world is in an epidemic of narcissism and bad decision making? How did you decide that they know the mind and world better than you or I? I am exploring ideas and I assume you are too. What makes them more qualified to explore ideas than you or I? Lot's of years spent reading books in an ivory tower? Don't you think anyone who thinks they have the answers that will "save humanity" is a tad on the narcissistic side? Don't know much about the lady, but Peterson has always struck me as being full of himself.

[@dbitely01]

@@williamgreenfield9991 well that lady made the claim for starts about saving humanity as the commet is wrote so you may want to start looking at who is saying what to get your options in order.

[@ericbrown5589]

Brilliant interview. He is so accurate in his assessment of social media.

[@avalanche9142]

Kudos and respect to Prof. Michaela for sitting with JBP and discussing this important topic

[@christopherevans6428]

What a brilliant conversation and much needed to be heard today

[@talisikid1618]

Willful blindness is ubiquitous. Glad you two covered it.

[@robertortega8093]

The saddest part of bad decisions is having to live in an eternal choice that could of been changed right before this decision is implemented, only greed confirms the choice of not realizing harm to one's eternal life. May God forgive those who might understand but choose the wrong path in which, their is no return to peace. One belief I do see is this. A bad decision can be turned into a good decision, if, and only if the good is made from the heart (truthfully) instead of from the greedy mindset.

[@austintroutman8325]

God only knows.

[@henrikljungstrand2036]

Good point, but there is no eternal damnation. There is aeonic damnation however, i.e. some individuals - through sheer conceit - damn themselves to uncountable (not literally!) lifetimes/incarnations of misery and suffering, before their lust for evil is finally satiated, and they willingly repent because there is no other path of progress left for them. This repentance might happen on another planet, or in an entire other solar system, since the entire Universe is seething with Life, and this planet is merely one evolutionary field of consciousness among countless others. The body/personality is brief and mortal, the soul is steadily growing and almost immortal (as long as the planet, or possibly solar system lasts), but the spirit is eternal though changing, or at least the divine spark within the spirit is. Learning through Reincarnation, and Reaping what you are Sowing, are facts of Nature, governed by Natural Laws, Laws upheld by Divine Decree. God is infinitely just but also eternally merciful. Everyone will be forgiven their crimes - no matter how horrible - in due time, but only after they have learned the correct lessons, have repented from their evil ways, and have made proper and proportional amends, atoning for their crimes by healing the damage done.

[@phoenixfire2445]

This is one of the best single dialogues I've ever listened to, all the way through.

[@joelruys9604]

Thank you for the bravery, and the small steps you both take!

[@pappav77]

Bravery?? JP is a narcissistic grifter.

[@joelruys9604]

@@pappav77 JIN: Your stance leaves you wide open, and your moves are totally inefficient. All in all, your fighting style is a mess. No but seriously, he's only human. I'm sure it would be difficult to restrain oneself from some level of egotistical indulgence if you shot to fame like that. Whatever my personal opinion on the man, much of the actual words that have come out of his mouth over the past 5 years have been very helpful to me

[@Sanctified57]

@@pappav77 Enter stage left another demonic troll

[@MrStifleras]

Usually I do not respect women but I respect prof. Schippers and that's a great compliment coming from a misogynist.

[@DanielWiebrands]

No, were in an epidemic of unforgiveness...and no help in how to clear one's own heart from trauma and pain!

[@kerstinrath8489]

I rarely post pictures of myself online and my son absolutely rejects it, but most of my friends who do it seem to want attention badly and they get it by their selfies

[@millar6070]

Extremely interesting conversation, I've listened and watched in a long time. Thankyou 👨‍🏫👩‍🏫

[@greatcitizensmovement2932]

Thank you so much for this nice compliment!

[@millar6070]

@@greatcitizensmovement2932 your welcome,hi from Melbourne Victoria Australia 🇦🇺.

[@Sam-re1ez]

Thank you God of gods, king of kings may I kneel on broken glass to breath the same air? Your brilliance is only exceeded by my psychotic obsession with you, my great, great lord of lords. JP, Dr, professor, your exceptional greatness.

[@solarex8160]

So good to see Peterson in top shape again. Excellent conversation. Thanks !

[@kobayashi2994]

"Another problem he points out is an epidemic of narcissism, or self-love" 2 Timothy 3:2 Evil in the Last Days "But understand this: In the last days terrible times will come. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good,…"

[@jacobwright5542]

Peterson is on to something with the idea of "Optimal connectivity". Remember when Facebook was a site you visited and anything you posted there was done so deliberately through a series of steps? Now it's an app grafted onto your operating system that has constant access to every bit of information within your hardware.

[@elsvisvanheemst3093]

Sterk interview Michaela! Voor mij leuk om te horen dat heel veel van wat mijn vriend en ik doen om een community op te bouwen en assertiviteit en creativiteit bij mensen aan te boren door jullie genoemd wordt. Geeft vertrouwen dat we op de goede weg zitten🙏❤️

[@greatcitizensmovement2932]

Dank je. Goed bezig Els!

[@adamhesse2586]

One of the best videos I've ever seen. Brilliant discussion, and Jordan Peterson's wisdom shines through excellently here in the middle with his actionable advice on taking small steps, and on rediscovering a sense of civic responsibility. I loved that run-through of the story of Osiris, Seth, and Horus. I last read that story as a child twenty years ago, I remembered the whole thing, and Jordan's explanation of it as an analogy to the state was brilliant!

[@huibrommers]

Very important metafor and helpful discussing! Well done!

[@greatcitizensmovement2932]

Thank you!

[@jimparsons4312]

Is it an andmill that you are talking about ?

[@taty9872]

I have been feeling this way for years!

[@chiaradina]

It’s such an inspiration that you could conduct this interview with Mr. Peterson. Thank you so much!

[@musikchristine]

Brilliant interview!

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

I honestly think that an epidemic of narcissism is how we’ve got men and women deciding they’re the other sex and then furiously demanding that others comply

[@katewetherell4846]

or it's transhumanism (but I haven't thought through whether narcissism is a part of transhumanism)

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

@@katewetherell4846 elaborate?

[@katewetherell4846]

@@EmperorsNewWardrobe definition of transhumanism: "the belief or theory that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations, especially by means of science and technology." //definition of narcissism: "selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration, as characterizing a personality type, or self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects, either in very young babies or as a feature of mental disorder"-so if you get yourself trapped in your self-centered thoughts that you can evolve into a different sex (physically) in this example, the transhumanismistic view will support you in this thinking because it says that humans can basically evolve themselves. It's an anti-God (or divine) and anti-human perspective being preached on this planet by transhumanists like Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Ray Kurzweil and it seems to be a very seductive ideology (what I'm trying to think through at the moment is whether narcissism is a subset of transhumanism)

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

@@katewetherell4846 hm, I’m not entirely convinced. You’re basically saying that some or all trans people believe they’re evolving beyond being human. Otherwise if they still believe they’re human, what do they believe they’re doing beyond their default of evolving naturally? Or do you mean they believe they can consciously evolve themselves?

[@katewetherell4846]

@@EmperorsNewWardrobe this is such a big topic but at it's core, transgenderism strikes me as an attempt to transcend your biological limitations, which is a key objective of transhumanism (although the traditional view of transhumanism would be a merging of technology and biology in the sense of evolving humans into transhumans) so perhaps it's better described as a precursor to transhumanism - and as to whether this process is conscious or unconscious, it's probably both - it seems like there is a "herd" aspect to the movement and an ideological aspect to the movement promoted by people like Ray Kurzweil and Martine Rothblatt

[@azjoe_6310]

Jordan is completely brilliant.

[@gandalf8216]

When the basic needs are met, and rest & digest is allowed to persist for a prolonged period of time, there is no incentive to change or adapt. To never go hungry, or see the dangers of our world first hand, coupled with a severe lack of actual, true leadership, has made humanity apathetic and unchanging. It's about to change soon enough as well.

[@charlesporter1148]

Within seconds of getting outside for the day 2 elements immediately explode right at you.... 1 ) the huge $60000 trucks just about every man is now driving whether he can afford it or not and 2) the fact that nearly everyone drives right up your bumper everywhere you go without any thought for how unsafe it is..these are 2 major signs of the i want it now syndrome...

[@jasonbourne4865]

I find it fascinating to learn how much wisdom can actually be found in ancient mythology. As a child - and even as a young adult - I thought of these myths as just stories meant for entertainment or to support certain beliefs and superstitions. I can't help but feel that I have been very arrogant in my attitude towards history.

[@joeday4293]

Dr. Peterson has blown my mind with his lectures on religion and mythology, and how pretty much all of them represent some forms of universal concepts that are found in cultures worldwide. Are any of them "true"? Not in an objective sense. But so much of our human lore has recycled the same themes for millennia, and often reaches the same conclusions about these themes - how can it then be untrue? And what is a religion but a path to the enlightenment of God? And what is God but the one true universality?

[@danyil_koval]

I took less then a second before I forgot the sound quality issue becouse of the value this conversation brought. Thanks.

[@manbearpig7359]

When Jordan sticks to psychology and human behaviour etc he is still amazing

[@poerava]

No. No he’s not. He’s very inaccurate and incorrect in his attempts to synthesis and interpret the literature we have.

[@manbearpig7359]

@@poerava I'll take your word for whatever it is that you just said. All I know is that when he doesn't stray into politics and gender issues he has helped many thousands of people cope with life in an ever more difficult world.

[@poerava]

@@manbearpig7359 What advice do you think he provided, that was novel and unique?

[@manbearpig7359]

@@poerava I don't recall saying that he has said anything novel or unique. I mean lets face it, there really is nothing new in psychology, psychiatry, the self help or mental health field and hasn't been for decades. Most if not all of Petersons advice is good old fashioned common sense. But, if his books, lectures, seminars, or one on one sessions have helped people then that can't be a bad thing.

[@purpleheart3036]

@@poerava or just different to your interpetation, for something so fluid and and up for interptation and not something so rigid and set in stone can be claimed as incorrect

[@severinassiekstele247]

Everywhere are only epidemics, everywhere people are doing something wrong, everything is just bad, people are stupid, people are evil, people people people.. Can we just stop one day and just chill for a moment?

[@jeroencommandeur]

He's right about Twitter indeed. I quit Twitter some time ago due to too many confrontations with trolls. No regrets whatsoever.

[@emhartung]

I hope that you will continue and have another conversation. Very beautiful exchange of ideas here. Thank you.

[@giannisms1861]

Narcissism is also associated with comfort in many cases (not all). I have seen narcissistic people change 180 in their personalities when they realise how meaningless their existence is in the world. One of my close friends was a male narc, he then joined the army and people were brutal to his ass there. He is now a different individual workaholic etc. He used to be a spoiled kiddo. Not anymore.

[@kandoo1316]

You've been fooled my friend, narcissists don't change, they adapt to their surroundings and will act accordingly to fool people that they've changed.

[@edithtierce8209]

@@kandoo1316 true ones sure….. but our society has been enabling , I would even say encouraging this type of behavior… These are not the personalities that just come to be on their own.

[@Phasma6969]

@@kandoo1316 They might not be narcissistic but exhibit traits that fit the category just enough. It could also be attributed to them just being an asshole and not entirely pathological, just needing to be kicked up the ass hard enough.

[@reginaarnone4845]

@Chad Suave your insane!

[@reginaarnone4845]

@@kandoo1316 thank you

[@MyMaitetxu]

Wishfull blindness, thanks for that definition , very accurate

[@kiddywriter]

Willfull blindness

[@JoyfulUniter]

"Some problems pick you, and they bug you, well that's your destiny calling" The problem that bugs me is how lonely people are, making friends is the easiest thing in the world and yet i saw a clinical study show that 25% of people feel they have no friends and no one to turn to, every 4th person you see has no friends....it's disgusting and i won't allow it.

[@bigpicture3]

What is a friend??? Is it someone with whom you can share your vulnerabilities, your beliefs, your hopes, and your dreams??? If there is that level of commitment will they eventually betray your trust??? Reenact the archetype of the crucifixion???

[@sanniepstein4835]

Too much moving around.

[@andrewwabik5125]

Ugh…this is why I try to go it alone, to the degree that I can. I think the only real way to even sort of semi function in this world is to shut most of it out. You must be awake to what’s good and call out what isn’t right. You also have to realize that most people aren’t worth your time…most of the time. It’s difficult to balance.

[@thinkingallowed7042]

👍💯

[@icarapelicana]

I'm 26. I tried to live like that for the last year and a half and i ended up thinking that i might be the narcissistic one because i can't have healthy relationships

[@andrewwabik5125]

@@icarapelicana we all are to some degree. There’s such a thing as healthy narcissism. For someone like me, I need to be self aware almost all the time to not lapse into unhealthy, self-aggrandizing self glorification. I’m just “healthy” enough to catch myself, and try to not lie or take advantage of others. If you’re wondering if you’re “the narcissistic one”, then I would think your conscience is healthy and there enough to self regulate any of those impulses. Does that make sense? Just keep observing yourself and try to work on what you don’t like. Also, TRY not to crucify yourself every time you catch yourself in the act. I have real trouble with this, as well.

[@icarapelicana]

Thank you for the reply, i liked your guitar songs, i have also relied on music to cope with depression

[@andrewwabik5125]

@@icarapelicana :)

[@Bashchannel]

This is actualy a very usefull conversation. One characteristic of an andmill is that its geometric shape is a closed bubbel..... and this geometric shape is exactly what we see of we study limitation of information. The algoritmes create bubbels whit people that stay wandering around in these bubbels until they re tired , worn out and exausted

[@greatcitizensmovement2932]

Interesting addition to the idea Etienne!

[@Bashchannel]

@@greatcitizensmovement2932 in Newspaper Gezond Verstand was an artikle from a former public relations adviser from the Obama administration and hè said ; let the oppostion just free to go but keep them closed in bubbels

[@Bashchannel]

@@greatcitizensmovement2932 greater network project is designed to break open these bubbels so the difussion of information can be maximised

[@Bashchannel]

@@greatcitizensmovement2932 the whole ptoganda machine that functions as a part of the cognitive warfare that is used against is depends on a limitation of information of at least 90% plus

[@Bashchannel]

@@greatcitizensmovement2932 in the case of the troll armys we see the same 90% influence they try to generate. With the goal to disinform and demotivate natural visitors.

[@Charl3011]

Finally a healthy conversation

[@iamstillthinking]

What a brilliant insight at the end there about how serious conversations are less likely to occur and more likely to fall into degeneracy on Twitter due to the text character limit.

[@thomasveder6073]

Hi. In this epidemic time of narcissistic derailment 🎬 it’s a pleasure to witness sane people restoring my faith in humanity ✌️ Regards Muhd Tariq Veder

[@minagica]

As someone that's not anonymous but occasionally uses "bruh", lol, LMFAO, etc, I would like to point out they're not foolproof markers!!! Sometimes a rose is just a rose, and someone had a potentially funny take

[@Y0UT0PIA]

I feel like Jordan's perspective on anonymity is just very off. the most vicious people on twitter are the blue checkmarks who are trying to impress their blue checkmark friends by being good members of their tribe. being "accountable" to a group doesn't make you a good person when the standards of that group are toxic, and only being accountable to yourself doesn't make you a daemonic troll, so long as your own standards are solid.

[@dehidaiaperez3680]

LOVE YOU MR. PETERSON THANK YOU VERY MUCH , ALWAYS ENCOURAGING US TO KEEP LEARNING/GROWING

[@Sam-re1ez]

Sir, Dr, professor, lord of lords, your wisdom grows greater each day. I yearn to show you my deep, hot love.

[@michaellamont2605]

I think I caught a little Narcissism. Now tormenting other Narcissists PUBLICLY. Lots of people tell me it's destructive but after seeing the Damage they did to me, I like to highlight/exposure them.

[@PepsiFuture]

What

[@michaellamont2605]

@@dingickso4098 I love questions. But you'll have to be more Specific

[@tiroles]

What about: How?

[@jackiejames3898]

Good for you but be Careful!!!

[@vlogcity1111]

Be careful because You might turn into one ☝️

[@johnwalsh518]

You really got this 1000% Jordan.

[@susannaemmerich1166]

Going round in circles, that's what's happening here in SA!!!!🙃🙏

[@SiSi-yk8os]

You can be a narc and ugly. It actually means the level of importance you place on your internal state. Narcissism is directly tied to hedonism.

[@888Philskill]

It's not bad decision making, it's intentional evil.

[@motisbeard]

This is not a world of good and evil; it's a world painted in infinite shades of grey. Your kind of thinking is what leads to atrocities. Your kind of thinking is what prompted ordinary Germans to participate in the Holocaust. Wise up and knock that shit off; you're not good, and those you oppose are not evil.

[@terryburian7057]

Yep, the NWO has been pushing these evil ideas for a long time. They dream of a disutopian where the common people ( 500 million ) are dumbed down slaves, while these elites live in glorious splendor. They are evil and perverted. It isn't a coincidence that governments everywhere want to educate children. Government education in turn, is supposed to be evidence of the state's goodness and it's concern for our well-being. The real explanation is less flattering. If governments propaganda can take root as children grow up, those kids will be no threat to the state apparatus. They'll fasten the chains to their own ankles. Lew Rockwell

[@jackiejames3898]

That's another way to look at it. There's definitely an evil aspect to it.

[@brookedeweaver0771]

100%

[@jo-annmuller6577]

Mr Walsh. Thank you for what you are doing. You are a man of substance and integrity. God bless you, you rock on bringing the good fight to save our children.

[@mrsdascavich5319]

Thank you for your conversation. God bless you both.

[@Sam-re1ez]

Jordan, my Jordan, King of kings, lord of lords, my I bow before your greatness and clean your body with my eager tongue?

[@astrudlang7557]

… excellent Point: suppression of information!! …out of shame , Angst (fear)then willfull blindness!! Tying in to that: overemphasizing reasoning… we should take our gut more seriously.

[@michaelaschippers9931]

I agree! I nade several episodes for follow the science stating that

[@lievenyperman9363]

The ant mill death spiral analogy is pretty good. Many bad ideas in history have had such a death spiral.

[@ryanjennings8585]

Interesting analogy. Reminds me of people driving around following each other until out of gas or air, but the decision was already made to by someone else. Smedia addiction troll loop has been trying various things to discourage anonimity - but getting fired for a tweet is a bit ridiculous to me and anonimity is a refuge for a lot of people that deserve to communicate. It is a death spiral of misinterpretation and misrepresentation. Narcissism has a boredom or an empty quality to it doesn't it? Survival mode and willful blindness is also boring and empty to a child, destined to become future narcissists amplified further with smedia. It's like future generations are skipping the normal ego and jumping straight to the superego. Taking a second bite of the apple so to speak. Cheers, thanks 🙏

[@aljazkolar]

it's been a year since i first heard of the word narcissism, i've learned so much on yt i can see right through them, 98% people at work: huuuge walls of defense, pretending to be better than, belittling, talking over when it's embarrasingly obvious they are all about surface compensation for their lack of insight

[@Wonderland518]

Absolutely spot on, I've been saying this for nearly 3 years now, trouble is few understand narcissists and no matter how hard you try there will always be narcissist fodder, easy pickings, easily manipulated people, narcissists and empaths on the spectrum, translation: good and evil, you can't have one without the other, good can't exist without evil and vice versa so you can never change it, there will always be both

[@malener.hansen7232]

Great talk! I have been waiting (with great anticipation!) for you, Jordan to connect with Matthias Desmet. Since you seem to be in his hood, I'm keeping my fingers crossed 🌷🤞❤️

[@tommyvictorbuch6960]

The "circle of death" in the world of ants, is a pretty good analog to the human society of today. It actually is a "bug" in evolution.

[@icarapelicana]

I just turned 26 and I had never been more depressed or suicidal. It turns out that after a very bad break up with someone i labeled as narcissistic I met someone and fell in love with him, i invested everything i had on moving to his city and being around to get to know him. We got to be very close and one day i started smoking weed and became addicted to Instagram. I wrote some fairly incoherent stuff that made him feel as if i was talking bad about him and he cut me off, which i thought was very narcissistic but several months went by and one day i had a mental breakdown, my parents had to take me with them and I've been two and a half months with them after seven years of living apart. Some days i wake up and feel that he never saw me for what i was, but then i think again and i feel that maybe he did and cut me off because he saw things about me that i had not seen about myself and I'm starting to realize that my need for him to see me ir understand me makes me the narcissistic one. So now i think all of the problems I've had before were actually because of me and my broken mind. The thing is that everyone always told me i was really sweet, smart, gentle, lovable and i always felt very honest and kind. I'm in a point where I don't know what to think anymore, i might have ptsd or some sort of undiagnosed mental condition from childhood. I'm so sad, i lost the love of my life and the opportunities i was given because i couldn't think clearly when i needed it the most.

[@devilman7670]

People will always put the blame on everyone and everything, out of selfishness will dismiss their addictions for any fault in the matter. Just think how much you could have avoided if you were sober. I'm coming to the realization that People don't really want a better life, they want an easy one, everything handed to them. They don't want to change. Alcohol and drugs, especially when one is mentally immature still, can be the cause of so many problems that could be avoided. If you are feeling suicidal then you need an extreme change in your life- meaning hobbies/ habits, customs and revaluation of values. It's the only way. People that don't know what their values are will always break until they can't fix themselves again

[@icarapelicana]

@@devilman7670 i think you didn't read well. I'm not dismissing any addiction. I'm saying it hurts a lot to see where i went wrong and feeling unable to get out of the shame. But thanks, i guess.

[@070agga]

That's a great realization about yourself, Icara! Much respect for you, and I'm certain this breaktrough is a path forward for you and towards a more peaceful mind. I wish you well!

[@oWMatt]

I'm at the same age as you. I too have problems with weed. My last brake up also made me question everything about me, what we really had, how I could be a better person and a better partner, would it change anything? Anyway...I belive this kind of stuff is normal to deal with at 20's :D I belive that you showing signs of looking into yourself and dealing with that is a good sign. It's the way forward and I belive you can turn your life around. Just keep on working on yourself. I wish you the best! :)

[@icarapelicana]

@@oWMatt thank you, i wish you the best too ✨

[@keithhoffman5351]

Yeah, Jordan is awesome, but Dr Schippers is brilliant, too.

[@celuiquipeut6527]

First time i am watching a video of this channel. I love how she is an active listener. Wonderful. Also a bit comical all those hmmhmmm but rich in information. I am intrigued. I will definatly watch other videos.

[@tblightningbolt8902]

she's pleasant I enjoy her talking style

[@FuckYourVaccine]

Thank you both for an interesting perspective

[@d.f2262]

I like this woman, and Jordan. I feel a very sobar atmosphere. Very real.

[@iluvrolaz]

Fascinating conversation!

[@beemio]

First time I've seen him in a few years where it does seem like he actually is back to his old self, properly.

[@Sam-re1ez]

🤣🤣🤣,

[@Jellordgaming]

Nitzche said that narcissism would be the logical extreme of our cultural trajectory.

[@MrLuigiFercotti]

"Would get you punched if you ever said that to someone in person." Prior to social media, this was most evident in how many people drive. The anonymity of the vehicle allows your inner asshole to come forth without consequence, except when it escalates to road rage.

[@ginahamlyn2569]

Professors, thank you very much for this insightful interview.

[@angieash9560]

Delightful exchange to observe.

[@thedarkpill3590]

First time watching this channel. I'm trying to determine whether 'Follow the science' is a joke or a premise. Science after all, has been almost completely co-opted by totalitarianism post 2020, and to follow the science is equivocal with blindly following the sentiment of those in power.

[@JenniferEver]

I would call it a mantra of propaganda. But I want to follow your comment to see if anyone knows a technical term for this.

[@christobecker]

Set a Diamond Cornerstone for our Society post-2020... many blessings

[@dangibby7782]

Problems are a memetic necessity to the development of intelligence.

[@Mariposaexistencial]

Definitely, but intelligence can go 2 ways, doing good or misleading deeds; some people would create generic problems « to push » things, but this generic problems can have consecutive effects and we have basically been living in consecutive reactions during the last 6-7yrs.. 😢

[@lindam4133]

The "or else" situation is exactly applicable to the covid mass formation, too.

[@AdamMWise]

I have a fear of being narcissistic, which in turn makes me feel like a narcissist. It's weird

[@briandaniels8945]

Makes me think your not a narcissist, these people literally don't care just being self aware and questioning is a plus

[@belroyale]

If you think you are a narcissist, 99% of the times you are not.

[@OldEnglandCathedral]

Good talk

[@SL-up5qh]

It seems to be so prevalent especially in places that are have a large quantity of the human species. We can thank the narcissistic world of Hollywood among many other things. Hands up who has a family full of them

[@kerra3699]

Yep!

[@sage_forensics_2261]

🙏💖 I agree with Professor Peterson on so many areas. His insight and intellect are a treasure to our generation. I would suggest caution when you see "names" online that are not real, like mine. Many of us do not use our real names because of a painful past with a narcissist. Often, this is something we are advised to do, depending upon our situation. I was given such advice about my name and my real picture. I don't think this is what he was referring to, however--but just in case. I think he was referring to a person online behaving a certain way within a certain context. I don't want others to feel they need to use their real names/pictures if their safety is in question because that would be a misunderstanding of what he was trying to say. Please, always put your safety first when dealing with a narcissist, especially when first leaving one. Professor Peterson was speaking and referring to another idea/concept, and I almost got confused myself for a moment before relistening. Be well, safe, and peaceful...🙏💖

[@Joseph-jx8bl]

It’s good to see Jordan talking to another intelligent person who is out for their own agenda. Let’s have a discussion like two intelligent adults. WOW! What a rarity these days

[@vm994]

I like Jordan Peterson, and as a woman, it's refreshing to see him interacting with a female peer for a change.👍🏼