Debate: Hitchens vs. Hitchens (13 of 14)

Brothers Christopher and Peter Hitchens debate the Iraq War and religion at an event organized by the Hauenstein Center for Presidential Studies with the support of the Center for Inquiry and the Interfaith Dialogue Association.

[@XandersArcaneStudy]

Thank you so much for posting all 14 of these. This was highly informative and thought provoking. I am always impressed by Christopher Hitchen's biting logic and clarity.

[@1n354a]

Thanks very much for posting this - a great debate and I enjoyed it very much.

[@Kevo216666]

Great stuff! Thanks for putting up.

[@renoboy666]

This was a wonderful debate and I enjoyed every minute of it, all 14 episodes! Bravo!

[@writersblock26]

Thank you for posting this, HauensteinCenter.

[@dogg724]

Christopher is absolutely brilliant. I've never had such a sumptuous history of so many different and complicated cultures summed up rather nicely into a fist a beautiful argument. It's a sad day for arm flapping younger brothers.

[@Beeza2996]

This was incredibly interesting and entertaining!

[@adstanra]

Wow, thanks for posting that.......brilliant.

[@Swedetres]

The elder,handsome brother won the debate, his mind is like a water fall, never ending with knowledge and points. I loved it! Former Presvetera Greek Orthodox Church

[@Unbiased321]

Christopher is the smarter brother! Clearly won the debate, and what a debate! Loved it!

[@tabula123456]

Thank you very much to the poster of this wonderful debate. I watched it in its entirety. Maybe through sheer practice and wonderul debating skills I believe CH thoroughly thrashed his younger brother. Though he seems capable of doing this with any religious individual. His arguments are very sound indeed and I believe the only recourse left for the religious individual is to prove the existence of God. Need I say impossible, therefore CH will always be the victor in these kind of debates.

[@JACKtheRIPP3R189]

Nice videos, always good to see Christopher Hitchens demolishing nonsense.

[@jettmanas]

Interesting debate. Well-moderated. CH makes points in debates that make me think. Though 3:25 seemed an error (caught up in emotion perhaps) in that not all religions want Armageddon. Thanks for posting.

[@PPartisan]

This was fabulous, I've never seen [Christopher] Hitchens on such top form; informative, decisive and very entertaining. This isn't to discredit his brother either, he tried his best, but it really was unfair as the facts were on Christopher's side.

[@Fiddling_while_Rome_burns]

C Hitchens is a debate master. He doesn't win debates, he dominates them. He completely maneuvers anything said onto his home turf and says what he wants to say never addressing any of the issues instead replacing them with his own issues. Most get seen through when they try to do this, Hitchens doesn't that's why he's a master craftsman.

[@rationalist47]

Poor little brother Peter. He's been fighting his big brother all his life and still can't win. Too bad he was so desperate to distinguish himself from Christopher that he chose to adopt opposing ideas that are nonsense.

[@RaggedM88]

Great debate. Christopher did really well, as always, when it came to religion, but I was not really persuaded by his arguments about the Iraq war. Peter is not as good of a debater as Chris and he seems to have run out of gas towards the end. Thanks for the upload.

[@infokemp]

Good for you Chris Hitchens.

[@angryafghan]

@zonymous I found it hilarious, replayed it like 5 times, but then I am slightly drunk LMAO

[@AlexGerau]

"Like religion is the drug that sedates the poor enough to not rebel." Yes, thats what I read in your comment.

[@hackenbollox]

I wonder if they had CCTV at the book signing. We could start working out which side everyone's on! HAHA!!

[@BlissfulKnowledge]

"It was blatantly rude. That is his natural voice." So what? He couldn't be heard with his natural voice. Hitchens wanted to do justice to his question, and in order to do that he had to HEAR his question -- hence, "speak up."

[@kaeBR]

"he wants to do away with all sorts of Faith," I don't know where you get that from, but he does the exact opposite. He was once asked if he thinks religion will ever disappear. His answer was not only did he not think that was possible, he wouldn't wish it to happen even if he could make that so. The reason these interfaith groups ask people like Hitchens is because they both have the common goal of getting people actually talking about these issues seriously instead of ignoring them.

[@BlissfulKnowledge]

"I'm talking about the way he said it, it was blatantly rude." Whatever. He was telling him to say speak up. That's that.

[@zxslipperz007]

I've seen them all as well and agree with you 100%. Watch the rabbi Boteach debate for a good laugh

[@comanchio1976]

@rationalist47 I think you're really on to something with that. I wonder how much of Peter's world view is determined on his desire to distinguish himself from his brother.

[@Oahudan7]

"I told them not too clap" - Legend

[@Jotto999]

Though articulate and eloquent, Peter is clearly out-classed in this debate, and as usual Hitchens is like a verbal flying, fire-breathing dragon.

[@romanpr1nce]

I love seeing people's comments jeering Peter's performance. Keep rooting for your guy and bringing down the other side, while simultaneously never taking a second to read either of their works, nor even really understanding what they're debating. No, Christopher was on top! He was the loudest, he was the only one asked questions, he's the most popular, and he always has a flock of blindness sheep following him, just as he accuses the church of having. Neither "won." It's not a football match.

[@rpcarnell]

Imagine that guy working as a teacher. Half the classroom would end up sleeping.

[@limpnail]

I've never seen a debate where C Hitchens could not give an intelligent reply. He wins hands down every time

[@chachieb]

Christians who disagree with keeping your spiritual feelings and illuminated thoughts to yourselves, will have a tough time dealing with Christopher's final words.

[@welshhibby]

And the final score is : Christopher Hitchens (reason) 1 Religion (non sense) 0

[@unegordon]

@BBMix You've spelt Intellectual wrongly. I can't help but feel that most of the users who comment on these youtube videos, only watch these youtube videos.

[@zaca353]

There is something about the misspelling of key words which somehow makes the comment harder to respect...

[@JIMMYLINE]

5:30 Peter Cobbs! You are all of a sudden world famous!

[@writersblock26]

@LowleyUK Apparently, some of the students at The New School in New York did, in fact, have Hitchens as their professor. I have to say that I envy them their time with the man.

[@dushi21]

Riligion poisons everything, well said mate

[@tha1ne]

I didn't mean it in that context when I said horrible dictator. I meant a dictator..who was horrible.

[@unegordon]

'speak up' - too funny!

[@Jkief123]

The problem is that, most social and moral philosophers will agree, religious moderation breeds fundamentalism. I've heard this happening too often, Timothy McVeigh would be a great example. I myself was raised in a moderate religious home, although I was taught to take the Bible literally, but my over achiever personality worked against me, and at a young age I became a fundamentalist, studying constantly my religious texts and taking them literally.

[@AlexGerau]

I absoloutly agree.

[@lee11991964]

A great debate, Christopher has logic and common sense on his side, on religion he destroyed Peter, who appears to have this 1950s vision of the UK as some sort of golden religious age, he is certainly of the conservative religious right. One satisfying thing is that at least in the UK his religious ideas will not come to political fruition, most Brits would regard Peter as a "bible basher", at least Britain is a godless, secular society, phew! thank spongebob.

[@Saddamuel]

I imagine he doesn't get annoyed by honest questions from people who are really trying to understand and so doesn't mind repeating the answer. The leading and idiotic questions must be infuriating - the arguments which pose as questions but which have been refuted a thousand times over yet refuse to die. I guess human ignorance is truly infinite...

[@CognosSquare]

This is an excellent debate no doubt. I am an Atheist but Peters answers are damn valid. Christopher is practicing a sort of luxury-atheism. And religion does seem a crutch for the unshaven, angry masses. A society with big class-differences seem to benefit with religion as it keeps the poor from eating the rich. Sweden has the highest amount of atheists but has also a very "flat distribution of money". But USA, England has probably too much uneven distribution to get rid of their shackles.

[@gamerknown]

Who said "speak up" in the beginning? It sounded quite rude...

[@POR97212]

what,they're not even gonna shake hands? sibling rivalry

[@tha1ne]

I have a problem when Christopher says, 'well, you shouldn't be in the dictatorship business if you can't capitalize on such an opportunity.' Nobody says,' I think I'll join the dictatorship business today.' Because Stalin was not bound to rigid moral principles that religion puts forth, he could make the decisions he did and do horrible things like genocide and censorship. THAT's what made him a horrible dictator.

[@Jkief123]

Here's the bottom line: Hitchen's is a great orator. The problem is we live in a society that tends to not live up to the old childrens phrase, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." Seriously, everyone in the audience are adults in anticipation for a war of words between these two brothers. Most people today probably would not stand a chance to the ancient Roman or Greek orators, they were vicious: in fact, you actually had to have a logical argument to compete!

[@bootymanager]

He's actually the guy who does his voice.

[@beeDUB75]

Peter Cobbs!!!! What were you thinking!

[@BryanAJParry]

Who barked "speak up!"? Think it was Hitch: how ungracious! But then, he is a man of passion :D

[@gminasyan]

Personally I shre the beliefs of Christopher Hitchens, but I hope my opinion here will not sound bias. If there was a scoreboard regardless of the ideas presented, Christopher Hitchens had much move evidense and specific detail on his position and I would say without a doubt he won this debate.

[@kick08ful]

Believe it or not Peter fans, it is a lot easier to sound skilled, valid and intelligent when you have done your homework and have your shit together.

[@ErnestoGomezSantan]

I can only hope that Christopher Hitchens later doesnt find a sect in the US of which he opines that that is a truly humanistic religion, changing his admirable views regarding religion, as he gets more assimilated to the imperial culture, like when he did in saying that the invasions and occupations of Irak and Afghanistan were the right actions, abandoning his former and valuable anti imperialistic convictions.

[@CognosSquare]

That was mainly the answer of Peters i was referring to. If im extrapolating from your answer do you mean that religion stands in the want of real rational social reform? Like religion is the drug that sedates the poor enough to not rebel.

[@Setzer]

I honestly can't figure out what's up with this audience. Are they applauding after everything that's said just to be polite? They can't possibly be applauding for statements they agree with. I suppose its just politeness, but I really prefer when people stick to cheering as a way of showing support.

[@mesonparticle]

Peter got completely battered by his older brother in this debate.

[@rpcarnell]

D'Souza has been the only one who stood up to Hitchens. Everyone else has been Hitchens' toy.

[@bloodties1]

@fifalacious i urge you to watch the debate again...also try reading books (not just the bible) Christopher clearly owned this debate.

[@gtalcstories]

Peter started off well but ultimately Hitchens the Great destroyed his younger brother

[@requiemdexter]

Sharpton just wants the tv/radio time. He must know he hasn't a chance in hell.

[@Saddamuel]

I quite like Christopher on Iraq, I never hear the case for the intervention made as well as he does.

[@kzearo]

I feel sorry for people who actually buy the frivolous sophistry of Christopher Hitchens. "These religions... earnestly desire that everything we call civilisation... be destroyed" How can anyone not see how pathetic this is? These are not the words of a serious thinker but an ideologue disconnected from reality. His simplistic doctrine commands so much appeal because of its polarised view of the world, and moreover because of the passionate indignation and sharp wit with which he serves it.

[@Sumoto999]

I don't think it matters wither if the "individual" lives by secular or traditional values. The human individual can commit itself to do w/e it wants. That means no matter what you commit yourself to ideologically, harm can be done by that person. Individualism, liberty, freedom personal responsibility can prevent this harm. This is what should be advocated. Unfortunately the two sides are too obsessed with their agenda to commit them selves to it in a efficient fashion.

[@DotBowder]

has?

[@bujin1977]

I wonder whether the American audience would understand a "piece of land the size of Wales"! ;o)

[@nickrd182]

And Hitchens won the debate.

[@zonymous]

@Acecool444 i'm a big fan of hitchens (met him once!) but i thought the 'speak up' moment was a little mean :/

[@BlissfulKnowledge]

"Who said "speak up" in the beginning? It sounded quite rude..." I'm fairly sure it was Christopher. Though, to be honest, it was justified to me -- the man was talking in extremely frail terms.

[@AlexGerau]

"I am an Atheist but Peters answers are damn valid." Wich answers are you reffering to. I had the impression that Peter did hardly make any valid point, except on those few occasions when he agreed with his brother. On your view that religion helps to keep the poor from eating the rich, I can only say, should this be true, and it's likely to be true, that only means, that religion is a means of suppresing people.

[@slovakmath]

even though hitchens memory and recall doesnt come near to that of chomsky's...it is as close as any other human could hope to be

[@kwp78666]

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

[@Saddamuel]

It's a curse. I once went to see a comedian and found I had already seen half his routine on KZbin.

[@rytallica898]

Hitchens danced circles around his little brother.

[@TheGreatDeciever55]

@LowleyUK If Christopher was my teacher at school----dude would be getting a shiny red apple and a bottle of johnny walker everyday

[@michieldej]

@Skipissatan I don't intent to suggest that Peter's arguments were divine in nature, but I consider it funny that the Celestial Dictator confronts Christopher with an eloquent brother who happens to be a Christian. This Dictator doesnt interfere with Christophers freedom of choice, however gives Christopher a subtle hint to reconsider his low-substance sound bites...

[@acecool4449]

@greyglee "I agree, Hitchens should have realized there maybe be children in the audience such as yourself who regard a harmless request from one adult to another to "speak up" as offensive. Mommy's caling, ready for your bed-time stories tonight?" Just one more good example of the moral decay of society is when rudeness, belittlement and sarcasm is accepted and defined as one of the characteristics of maturity or manhood. Atheist or not, Showing a little kindness would have suited him better.

[@lee11991964]

Agreed but apart from a few bishops in the lords, these religious people are just tokens to a bygone age. And hopefully with reform of the lords we can get rid of the remaining bishops, they have no place in politics, otherwise it will not be long before other religious groups want representation in politics, that would definitely be a massive step backwards.

[@Mantajourneys]

@Acecool444 and I submit that YOU formed this opinion of how YOU want to live your life. You were taught by people, not God. Had you a different teacher, God's word might differ. I can't see religion as all evil because my parents and grandparents aren't evil. I just found it wonderful to realise that they, in their tolerant, un fanatically-religious ways, brought me to a place where I was free to take that giant leap and say 'yep, probably just a bunch of stories', It's wicked.

[@Skipissatan]

do americans know what wales is?

[@Mantajourneys]

@Acecool444 but did you listen to Christopher's reply???? As it hasn't been done - how can you say it doesn't work??? Are you one of those people who needs a god to exist for you to be a good person? if you find happiness believing in God, you won't believe the bliss of one day realising that you can actually be a wonderful person without all the fear, scary stories, traditions. I think you should read more also. It will make life easier for you! xx

[@PPartisan]

He didn't stand up so much as duck and weave. D'Souza plays with the time constraints and uses it to throw out as many points as possible, which the respondent can't hope to address, then dive on the ones unanswered and claims this is due to ignorance. D'Souza doesn't really have anything to say, his argument can be summarised as "we can't prove there isn't a creator, therefore Christianity makes sense."

[@InnocenceExperience]

If there is a Mike Hunt....anybody seen Mike Hunt?

[@aadoza]

Also, I don't think it's so ridiculous to have no respect for certain religeons. If you had been on the receiving end of one of those aweful religious deeds carried out, say a train/bus bomb, would you still hold certain religeons in high esteem? Other religeons may seem ridiculous and have strange practices, may not seem natural/hygienic. Anyway, why should we respect one's religeon? I personally do have respect for certain religeons. But I don't really feel I have to have respect for any.

[@bigjstokes]

Hitchens won that debate, definitely. :)

[@MichaelFlynn0]

Peter is so outgunned its pretty sad.

[@MPaulHolmesMPH]

@TheGreatDeciever55 See, even when you wish to be secular, you can't help but spill over with worship for something higher than yourself.

[@xxsolascripturaxx]

Don't worry everyone, I found my visa...in case you were wondering.

[@mymom1234]

@Acecool444 How can a place be better when there is nothing boring? How can you enjoy something if there is nothing you dont enjoy? Forever happy is like being constantly drugged for eternity. I dont want to be resurrected into a happy zombie. If you have no fear of hell, why do you choose to be morally good? Because god said so? If thats your source, can it really be called moral?

[@Mantajourneys]

@Acecool444 you are right, none have us very long....100 years probably max.....I'm not gonna waste the life given to me - BY MY PARENTS - I'm gonna try to embody the qualities of saintly people I meet. I'll try to be as kind, compassionate, forgiving, generous, strong, have the ability to control my own mind and not cause harm to other living creatures for the entirity of my life, so that I won't need someone else to judge me, I'LL KNOW I didn't waste my life. let it go. you'll be happier.xxx

[@Luchiadh]

Is there much air in the world you live in?

[@acecool4449]

@mymom1234 "If you have no fear of hell, why do you choose to be morally good? Because god said so? If thats your source, can it really be called moral?" Would you murder, rape, molest, lie, cheat or steal from someone if there was no threat of going to prison for it? Or would you not even entertain those thoughts, knowing that it would cause any emotional hurt, pain or suffering toward another human being? To be civilized is to have the wisdom and intellect to distinguish between the two.

[@kaypaxian1]

i dont think anyone could get the better of christopher,over such a long debate. he is slippier than an eel in an oil drum, and more clever than most,dont be to hard on the tory privatising lover peter..

[@123fk]

SPEAK UP!

[@acecool4449]

@Mantajourneys "and I submit that YOU formed this opinion of how YOU want to live your life. You were taught by people, not God." You can submit anything you like, but then again, there's the problem with whether you're right or wrong, and honestly speaking, your false accusation of me is merely a foolish assumption, as I let no man teach me anything, especially someone as yourself.... However, if you're at all curious as to what wisdom I am led, I refer you to 1st John 2:27 (one of many)

[@KeinenGott]

Secularist state that is/was not tyrannous? Umm.... Sweden has an, around, 80% atheist population, and they are getting along quite well. There are of course more examples like Japan and so forth, but you get my point.

[@rpcarnell]

I know, but Hitchens was drunk, drunk, drunk.

[@fifalacious]

@BBMix are you for real? What's his point about citing an atheistic ruled country to see what happens, if all of us, believers or not, are human being and susceptile to the most horrendous behaviour and mistakes, what the hell is his point? There is no point... it's a play on a nobrainer which you find brilliant? It's not horrors of religion he was citing (except for his totally obscure and exhaustingly uncontextual example of circumcision) but the horrors of some, and not all those within it.

[@AlexGerau]

I do not agree that Peter did well. I have to agree with Einstein2119. He was evasive on many occasions. And he presented lots of assertions, without delivering any arguments in support. For instance: when he blamed the increase in violence in brit society on the decrease in religiosity. He simply asserted that without giving any argument in support of his thesis at all. Consequently, Christopher blew him out of the water.