Debate recording: Patton vs Jackson on Systems Concepts in Evaluation

On February 27, 2023, the System in Evaluation Working Group of the European Evaluation Society sponsored a debate between Michael (Mike) C. Jackson and Michael Quinn Patton on Systems Concepts in Evaluation. The Debate was entitled: "In Search of a Golden Mean." The debate was stimulated by Patton's response to a critique of Systems Concepts as used in Evaluation. You can view the original critique and debate at: • Using Systems Concepts...
Here are the segments of the debate:
00:00 Introduction by the European Evaluation Society
06:40 Mike C. Jackson (MCJ) overview of Critical Systems Practice
11:17 Michael Quinn Patton (MQP) overview of Systems Concepts in Evaluation
16:09 MCJ critique of Systems Concepts as used in evaluation.
21:12 MQP critique of Critical Systems Practice.
16:09 MCJ on the Golden Mean
21:12 MQP on the Golden Mean
35:35 Questions and Answers (Q&A)
50:45 Closing by the debate hosts

[@tmbrightfuture2023]

Thanks for this.

[@theresaalegros4619]

Evaluator-who-loves-system-perspective viewpoint: I think Mike Jackson has a lot to offer in terms of systems science...I will definitely check him out as I seek to advance my systems understanding. I am particularly interested in his point about all of the systems concepts that evaluators have perhaps not yet considered. My take home from this debate and career as an evaluator is that you really need to have years inside of the belly of the evaluation beast to be able to adequately critique the application of systems concepts within evaluation. I agreed with Patton's arguments as they relate to evaluation. He did a great job of repping the field--itself arguably a complex, adaptive system that will likely evolve as a result of ongoing debate. One lesson for me here is that, in the same way that a systems expert may fall short in seeking to understand evaluation (which Jackson awesomely acknowledged), I imagine that evaluators need to approach systems thinking with the same humility and curiosity (which Patton awesomely suggested). Perhaps instead of a rematch, a co-created KZbin session by the two Michaels is in order.

[@setzmarn]

Thank you, Michael Patton. You are a valuable asset in the evaluation space and appreciate that your wealth of experience is shared here to help us understand key concepts of evaluation including emerging concepts of evaluation and the evolution of evaluation.

[@mikemoore-hehim1149]

thank you for putting this up - it was a very interesting discussion to attend

[@Rupesh99shah]

thanks for uploading this.

[@jakeduddle4178]

I’ll never apologize for being white. I earned everything I have. Gfy