Declassified: "Throw a Nickel on the Grass" HAVE DOUGHNUT Briefing

[@MAFarnsworth-s1s]

Fun fact. After testing the Mig-21, Tom Cassidy would go on to make Admiral and was involved in many Navy aviation programs. He was the senior officer at Miramar when they filmed Top Gun and flew some of the F-5 footage. He even made a cameo towards the end of the film, in the graduation ceremony scene. In the 1990s, he would go on to be president of General Atomics Aviation and helped develop the Predator and Reaper drones. Some years ago, I was part of a delegation visiting the General Atomics facilities in San Diego and at their airfield in the Mojave. I had a chance to meet him there and we hit it off right away. Like any good fighter pilot, he had many great stories to share and talked a lot with his hands. He was happy to chat all day and into the evening. Great find, Steve!

[@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus]

Joe Jordan set an altitude record of 103,389 ft in an F-104, and was one of the test pilots for the F-111 and YF-17. Quite a talented pair. I once read an account of the F-14 Tomcat, having the name Tom's Cat for a US Navy admiral named Tom and the fact that Grumman's planes have mostly been called ___cat. I wonder if this is the eponymous Tom. Edit: Nope, that was Adm. Thomas F Connolly.

[@storeymizzell3019]

V cool thx for sharing!

[@Sisnye]

This is incredible. My old man flew the Mig in the 70s and 80s in eastern Europe. Had he known that you guys had this all figured out back in '68 while he was still in high school, he would probably have chosen a different career path.

[@ji3194]

So awesome thank you for posting. Today I learn the F-111 tails are the same size as a Mig21 wing

[@eicjc]

Steve, you spoil us! This is pure gold.

[@jackstheraptor2791]

This is amazing history.Thanks for sharing it.

[@CAPEjkg]

It's amazing that this was once very classified video! Cool stuff

[@VikingTeddy]

This is gold. A great find!

[@bend1483]

Excellent video. Great footage from old Groom Lake!

[@manolog.9962]

That was an awesome video. Thank you for posting it!

[@66PHILB]

Wow Steve! Amazing analysis. Also, is that an EE Lightning silhouette behind Lt Col Jordan?

[@sichere]

Indeed

[@restaurantattheendofthegalaxy]

Either that, or it’s a captured Egyptian plane from 1967. I assume this film was made before the 1973 war.

[@BobbyB1928]

From an Iraqi defector in 1966 a year before the 6 Day War. An F-13 model.

[@jaynuck]

Thanks for sharing Steve!

[@L_Train]

Something about flying something that fast when you can't see around you that well bothers me. I suppose there's not much up there except sky but it still seems strange. I guess that's why I never became a pilot.

[@_RAF_SkyRider_]

Wow, original movie! Excellent! Great thanks!

[@0MoTheG]

14:00 I didn't understand the gyroscope caging thing. The aiming didn't work?

[@SuperMegaCyrus]

Too much G Force overloads the Gyros and causes them to go over the place, caging resets it.

[@0MoTheG]

That much is evident from what was said. They seem to talk about a specific gyroscope.

[@Rock-mo3ry]

Always great content.

[@nichille]

Wild to think that although the AF & Navy evaluated the MiGs together (coming to the same conclusions), the pilots from both services decided to exploit different advantages and utilize different tactics in the second half of the air war over Vietnam. American individualism at its finest.

[@sedlo]

Very cool. Was this a brief for tactical crews in general, or for FWS Instructors and Top Gun Instructors?

[@_RAF_SkyRider_]

There were no Top Gun in 1968.

[@sedlo]

@@_RAF_SkyRider_ nope, but one year later there was. So while I’m pretty confident the Top Gun instructors saw this, then, I’m wondering about regular fighter pilots, too.

[@172ndairwing4]

Back then each branch handled dissemination of the data differently. As noted there was no NFWS in operation yet, although the “Ault Reports” findings were being actioned upon by the Navy and the Have Doughnut article would be used to test the VF-121 pilots’ tactics ahead of the first class in 1969. The USAF did have a Fighter Weapons School and briefed the appropriate FWS graduates , who then disseminated the findings to various pilots and units. USAF F-105 Pilot Ed Rasimus wrote of a time he declined to engage three MiGs when he got separated from his flight, citing information from this briefing as to why shooting down a Mig wouldn’t have been a good idea (and it wasn’t).

[@sedlo]

@@172ndairwing4 thank you very much for the info!

[@172ndairwing4]

@@sedlo you’re welcome. Appreciate the sub sir!

[@Nyeoom]

31:56 WT players in every early jet game "jUsT dOdGe iT wItH a 4 G tUrN"

[@calneigbauer7542]

Check out Bruce Gordon he talks about his time in this program

[@0MoTheG]

What is the Q-limit? Low and fast inlet temperature?

[@SuperMegaCyrus]

Max speed essentially, they're talking specifically about the fact the 21 will overspeed its engine

[@GoSlash27]

Aerodynamic drag loading and buffeting on the airframe. It's the same thing they're talking about during rocket launches when they call 'Max Q". Exceeding the Q limit will result in the aircraft shaking itself apart and parts being ripped off.

[@0MoTheG]

@@GoSlash27 "maximum dynamic pressure" is correct.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

It's strange that he says the F-8 looks like a MIG-21 from a side on view and then says the F-4 is easily recognizable. The F-4 looks more similar to me, if anything. Naturally he is better at target recognition than I am of course, I merely wonder what visual cues he goes off to determine what aircraft is what?

[@Heatherder]

The tail and nose shapes differ greatly

[@restaurantattheendofthegalaxy]

…so what you’re saying’ is, don’t get in a turning fight with a MiG-21, and keep your eyes peeled for the damn things.

[@mikeck4609]

Gold

[@Beardman770]

Is this the mig from the Iraqi pilot that defected to Israel?

[@Mr.Cool628]

yes

[@forthwithtx5852]

They talked funny back then.

[@jackstheraptor2791]

Wow

[@stuartb9194]

Do you think they filmed it in Sepia tint to make it more edgy?

[@briancooper2112]

5 stars!