The SU-27SM Flanker Attempts To Keep Up With NATO

[@IcY_Radon]

my tws locked onto a mountainside yesterday there was no missile or plane it just decided that was a nice rock

[@bradenhagen7977]

Probably a plane I left in the side of the mountain the match before...

[@anabolti682]

Same, I was flying behind an afterburner, trying to fire off an IR missile, the lock would just get stuck on rocks lmao, so bullshit

[@TheCodMineMan]

War Thunder trying not to aggressively power creep while breaking multiple things in an update, impossible challenge.

[@Namkify]

I like to imagine that they broke the flares and radars on purpose so the new missiles seem more capable

[@WT_TheDestroyer]

Oh, Hello there! But yeah, gaijin NEEDS to fuck up something each update.

[@uranium3000]

The radars are broken? haven't heard of this one ​@@Namkify

[@jordancourse5102]

Idk why gaijin changed multi path for RB. We (sim community) asked for it to be changed only for sim.

[@chaosinsurgency6636]

Content creator that makes AAA quality cinematics

[@iwyrilja]

Adding bonkers radar missiles and nerfing multipathing while keeping 16v16 is crazy. Btw use the IR HMD in MiG-29s and Su-27s. It says it has a 10km range but you can usually lock people up to ~20km and then you can switch to radar

[@r6sm043]

Not to mention breaking flares and chaff and making the stock grind basically impossible

[@vipvip-tf9rw]

​@@r6sm043gaijin when they give cumulative round and 2 dog poo missile at top tier are really asking for hate for themselves

[@Sol-Orion]

There's an option for smaller matches! It's a settings toggle! /s Fuckin why?? Nobody is going to use that. The small match toggle might as well be a placebo.

[@r6sm043]

@@Sol-Orion issue is after having it on all day today and yesterday I haven't had a single match becuse it's only a chance, funnily enough doh I've had mutiple 2.3 matches be 5v5 today

[@_ace_defective_]

the stock grind is the worst part, no radar missiles and no chaff in matches where radar missiles are now very strong....

[@EdgeR2]

I can hear the pain in your greeting lmao

[@dorianhak7206]

Wtf 18h?

[@Ninjasimpmunk]

@@dorianhak7206yeah what lol

[@maxi835]

bro came from future

[@sleepyheadgaming.]

​@@NinjasimpmunkI assume the video was released to members before it was publicly released

[@Jack-zw5qn]

Patreon early access probably

[@airadve]

next warthunder patch should skip the whole f22 stuff and go straight to ufo and intergalactic warfare

[@bradenhagen7977]

You mean bring back the UFOs

[@toxickilljoy9037]

"Let's skip the F22 stuff and go straight to the F22 stuff"

[@sarttee]

i mean... even there the U.S wins.

[@exercitus8535]

They added option for 6-12 players *if there is enough players for this option*. And yet each time i get this 16v16 lobby, where if you just simply divide it, you can get 2 8v8 lobbies. "Not enough players" i guess

[@CaptKashi]

I have gotten the small lobby tons of times so far. Imagine the same thing as the other mode, but it ends even faster.

[@eliP8911]

Ppl are still fur-balling 🤦

[@ricardohumildebrabo]

Read as not enough servers. Small indie company.

[@eliP8911]

@@ricardohumildebrabo 😂

[@e-one6348]

It works same as night battles, if there are enough players *who have the option selected* in queue at the exact same time to instantly make a full small lobby, it will create said small lobby. In all cases otherwise it prioritizes big lobbies. In other words same as night battles we will rarely see consistently small matches

[@InterstellarTaco]

Matawg punching the air when anybody slanders the SU27 or anything attached to it.

[@Likeaworm]

Lmao that video yesterday cracked me up. “Su27sm new meta” 😂

[@InterstellarTaco]

@Likeaworm he's such a cuck for the Russian stuff it's hilarious. There are so many broken Russian vehicles and yet he always shills for the shit ones. It cracks me up.

[@derkaiser9881]

That dude is properly delulu.

[@molstad182]

stopped watching that guy, cant stand him anymore

[@ThanhNguyen-xf9dl]

​@@LikeawormHe need encourage ppl play Su27 so he can kill lol. As a Soviet player, i just play rank VII now. Mig19pt, Mig21smt and Mig23MLD still have fun.

[@Jack-zw5qn]

Gaijin: ok, got it. 11.7

[@raketny_hvost]

13.7*

[@DaisiesTC]

@@raketny_hvost lol maybe in a year. Gaijin is allergic to BR decompression.

[@aax960]

@@DaisiesTC you wont believe it

[@thatoneguy1741]

Bro I either get absolutely disintegrated, or I get 0 fucking kills cause I’m going cold all the time 🗿

[@maocehung913]

What does it mean to get "cold"?

[@a.anonymous1318]

​​@@maocehung913fly away from enemy or missile In this case both

[@braedynhoward3644]

welcome to realistic modern air combat...

[@thatoneguy1741]

@@braedynhoward3644if I wanted true realism I wouldn’t be playing warthunder lol

[@goldfishPACIFIER]

@@maocehung913 hot means enemy or missile is approaching you ( facing you) cold is the opposite, when you turn cold the missile has to drag its ass to chase you and it gets even slower and less manuerable after it runs out of fuel. also I on the other want more realism but like defyn said the way air rb is made makes it soo much more fucked, They need lesser players bigger maps and objectives that are cluttered in groups but each group of objective is very far out of the other objective

[@DerpDealers]

The snail is going to kill their game for good if they don't rework all of air rb.

[@Likeaworm]

Been the same thing since 2014 😂

[@yashkasheriff9325]

Nah bro, it'll keep on going because people will pay for the pack jets.

[@ThanhNguyen-xf9dl]

​@@Likeawormat least 9.3 to 11.3. Msl not too op, you can easily flare or just dodge low tier msl. At least it require some skill. 12-13.0 dont need skill atm.

[@cookiecracker2]

@@Likeaworm the layout has yeah. but remember the awful climbing meta at 10.3? no contrails, airfields were only like 30km away from each other, and the spotting system got you killed more than anything because even if you DID look directly at an enemy it took like 2-3 seconds for them to even be spotted. It's changed quite a bit since then. the 2 things they need to desperately do right now is add 12v12 as a seperate match choice, and have 2-3 seperate airfields that you get to spawn at, maybe even cap the amount of players that can spawn at 1 so it forces you to spread out. we have these massive maps, yet because of how everythings set up, most players will never even see 2/3 of the map, because they only fight in the center.

[@ryantoole2327]

@@ThanhNguyen-xf9dl I agree, there is sane (and fun) missile play at 9.3 - 11.3. I really like 10.3 and thereabouts. Top tier is simply insane at this point. I've been going back to 8.3-8.7 and have had lots of fun with some of the BR changes down there. Props as well remain fun and competitive.

[@ddsplayzz]

A trick ive learned to overcome the poor range of the HMD lock is to switch to IRST to lock them (it says 10km but it can lock at higher distances) then switch to radar then fire the missile

[@blessthismessss]

this is the way 🙏 you can get locks on hot jets with IR HMD and turn your 10km range lock into like, a 25km range one. sensor fusion is OP honestly

[@ivand5699]

Growling Sidewinder did that in a video two days ago about Su27 vs F22.

[@joy_gantic]

​@@ivand5699 Yeah well Yawning Snorewinder is in his pyjamas and just drink a glass of warm milk so he's going to bed because he's sleepy

[@alessandrozampa6642]

Always uses to do this expetially with the mig23ml and it still works great but Jesus Christ anything above 11.7 is just not fun unless you are a us main

[@turkeyboy5543]

Fun fact, those chickenwire looking fins on the R-77 aren't the stabilizing fins. They are the maneuvering fins. Apparently they are supposed to be more effective at very high speeds, at the cost of being draggy as hell everywhere else.

[@hemendraravi4787]

draggy only under mach 1.2 , but in game they have a constant drag at all speeds which is why they are so shit. irl it will probably be bad a long range , but under a 15km fight r77 would have an advantage. but in game r77 is bad at all speeds.

[@toxickilljoy9037]

Between that and the bad seeker, being fast helps the missile maneuver more, and keeping an STT instead of TWS lock will give the missile better mid course updates l allowing better long range tracks

[@turkeyboy5543]

@@toxickilljoy9037 If you are launching beyond the missile's terminal guidance range, you are launching beyond its optimal maneuvering range.

[@toxickilljoy9037]

@turkeyboy5543 Yes and some aircraft can fly with only one wing. That's great, and im glad youre aware of this, but being fast helps the missile have more energy to pull max overload longer regardless of range. Also, if you're launching on a target beyond 10 miles, you need to use a single target track for the R77 unless you're making a video on why the R77 sucks. So again, stay fast and use STT if you're beyond "terminal guidance range" or when the missile goes active for better maneuvering and range respectively.

[@turkeyboy5543]

@@toxickilljoy9037 You're only going to see a significant difference caused by launch speed at short range, since your missile will have more maneuverability off the rails. At long range there will be massively diminishing returns on launch speed vs missile terminal speed. Sure being fast technically helps BVR, but not by much.

[@ale69420]

Top tier is unplayable right now. You get up and there is 100+ misiles in the air in a map of the size of monaco basically. Its imposible

[@texasthib2029]

You must be dogshit cause I’m getting 4 kills a match minimum lol

[@theflyinggasmask]

Its at least more playable now than it was before the patch.

[@ale69420]

@@theflyinggasmask after a couple of days and even without unlocking the Fox 3's I can confirm this. Theres no more big furballs in the center of the map. At least theres that

[@theflyinggasmask]

@@ale69420 Yeah, was hoping for permanent smaller player counts and EC maps, but I'll take what i can get at this point...

[@ale69420]

@@theflyinggasmask idem. I think this meta with EC modes or EC maps and smaller teams would be perfect. But Gaijin doesn't want that. I'll take what I can get.

[@Drunken_Sailor1]

Blud is not happy with the update

[@FinnIstGut]

its mid

[@TheCodMineMan]

Filler update

[@elkrumb9159]

It’s a pretty rushed update, even when they took forever

[@alkatraz9514]

hands down the worst update balance wise since harrier gr1

[@heliogonzalezsanchez8227]

One of the worst updates in war thunder history

[@TacgnolSimulacrum]

This has been possibly the least fun update I've ever played with WT. Had a spaded 29SMT so just needed to grind the 77 out, but that alone was so incredibly frustrating I don't think I'll grind any of the new planes until they do something. Almost every match regardless of what I did was take off, a minute later RWR starts screaming at me, and then 2-3 minutes later regardless of altitude, chaffing, notching, going radar-cold, etc I explode.

[@DevinEMILE]

Legit the only way i've not died in some random missile is the second i get a msl warning. I just turn around and pop chaff for the next 30 seconds. Like i dont ever get to do anything. It feels so boring. Like i just Defend the whole match until its close quarters. This is the Gripen Maybe the F3 Tornado will be decent. As its got a good radar and AIM120Bs. But its still a bus, and starts with 2x9Ls

[@mikedesanta4612]

​@@DevinEMILE Skill issue

[@thatoneguy1741]

Planes with no fox 3s need to be in a different bracket entirely

[@texasthib2029]

Nah I was still shitting on every idiot spamming their fox3s with my 2r7ers tryna unlock the r77

[@jagdadler213]

@@texasthib2029 Yah-ah, since ARH missiles can meet planes with stock AIM-9Ls and R60s. R27ER is the strongest SARH missile, ofc it's going to do well.

[@DaisiesTC]

​@@texasthib2029 Literally all the enemy has to do is launch their missiles and turn around and you can't do anything about it if you don't also have Fox 3's lmfao. There's of course going to be brainlets that can't even do the bare minimum amount of skill required to use a missile but I really don't believe you were consistently shitting on people.

[@mastermidir]

You wanted balance, then we should've never gotten Fox-3's.

[@BearcatThunder]

Or they could just decompress.

[@nikolaideianov5092]

There never was balance R27er vs aim7f/m(same in files)

[@SuiSideex]

@@nikolaideianov5092 lmao, any plane is good in any other ways, su-27 still have more missiles and u still can carry very good R-27ER/ET, amraams have longer range wowowowo OP not balanced, what a stupid, they are still not better in any way than R-77 and theres still other stuff in those planes, and russians planes overall should be better at close range than longe range, like in DCS.

[@jayklink851]

If you fly at alt, they can usually be countered pretty easily. The first day was rough, but top tier matches are actually lasting a lot longer with the Fox 3s. People aren't hugging the deck, go left, than proceed into a suicide fur ball.

[@DaisiesTC]

@@SuiSideex Did you really just say the AMRAAM is not better than the R-77 lmfao

[@bagelmaster2498]

I fully expected that this would be the case when fox3s came, the game is just not designed for the fox 3 game play in mind

[@rmshorty11]

Spot on and still so many players have been clamoring for them.

[@bagelmaster2498]

@@rmshorty11 and that’s not me saying that fox 3s can’t work I’m sure it’ll be such a fun gameplay mechanic in smaller matches of 6v6 or 8v8 but then you run into the problem of getting literally no rewards from that match

[@jcdenton9569]

It would not have been this painful if the multipathing had not been changed, now it’s simply encouraged to spam all your missiles because you’re almost (and on some maps, completely) guaranteed to get kills

[@alexmaximus9134]

Well, that is what happens when people wish for new features like fox3s instead of bug fixing and balancing changes.

[@rmshorty11]

@@bagelmaster2498 Yeah, lobby and map sizes both contribute the most to this problem and it generally seems like it's not a concern for Gaijin right now. I agree that I think it will be fun under the right circumstances.

[@unitedfront9717]

Nah the update made top tier just extremly unfun.....and can we talk about the stock grind situation ? 💀 like i know gayjin needs to make money so yeah the 400k research for one plane is kinda okay but then you need to spend like 20 hours grinding out all the modules ?!! Have they become entierly crazy

[@TacgnolSimulacrum]

It's bad enough I won't be doing any top tier for awhile. Ground my spaded 29SMT to get the 77 for it and as soon as I got that I played GRB instead it was so frustrating.

[@uranium3000]

It's doable within Gaijin gameplay scope, you get to top tier and has to expect maybe a single aircraft being researched by day, fucked up but makes so you play for more time

[@iTzDarKSide]

Dawg it took me 4 days to get the new su27 with no premium time or jets I want to kms

[@unitedfront9717]

@@iTzDarKSide god....tell me how the stock grind is 💀

[@Pilloot.]

I’ll make sure to keep this in mind for my next match in the yak-3…

[@Good_Kid_M.A.A.D_City]

2:48 bro knew it all the time.

[@coldclaws2479]

war thunder needs to start modeling ecm. it is important in this modern environment

[@jordanharvey5739]

ECM isn’t really that effective at these engagement distances, more for denying info at longer ranges

[@molstad182]

i dont think ECM works the way you think it does

[@kamraam1464]

ECM doesn't just magically trash a missile fired from 10 miles away. And that would be a horrible addition to the game, anyways.

[@nikolaideianov5092]

​@@kamraam1464 yeah just like makeing radar missiles useless if you fly somewhat low.... Wait a second

[@goldfishPACIFIER]

its the way the sight system works in air rb, I feel like for top tier they should make it so that the enemy is visible ONLY if it pings your rwr or is within the 2km radius from your aircraft. Like the other dude said ECM if implemented realistically is useless at this range, you need longer ranges where you actually start to notice that you cant get a proper lock on the enemy or the radar just fucks up and doesn't show the ping right.

[@House_of_Schmidt]

The air game mode at top tier needs work. Regular Air RB should be 10 v 10 max and they really should bring back RB EC where 16 v 16 could work.

[@pyencdocde5716]

Hope these next few videos of top tier don't melt your brain too much

[@roguebogey]

The man has a youtube channel dedicated to the game, his brain is probably a chunky soup by now

[@Wizard-dq8qb]

couldn't agree more with you Defyn, the smaller lobby option not working, the flanker being a kinda mediocre plane against NATO, and the fact that the update wasn't what we were expecting. thanks for putting my thoughts on a video.

[@D0gEAtD0g]

As I was hearing some people in sim matches today saying that it is super stronk with god missiles which has a lot g (yeah,reading statcards in WT) while the red lobbies are empty already second or third patch in a row (wonder why, way too strong I guess, so people don't want to play it)

[@texasthib2029]

Not people already complaining that Russia is somehow not good AGAIN after ruling air rb with the r27 for how many years the Abrams was only good when the first m1 came out since then every other one has been the exact same tank with a 120 and the f16 was getting slammed by the mig29 when they first came out and then they only became someone equal when the flight model took a hit and I don’t want to hear shit about the “f14 meta” cause you had to be a genuine retard to die by the aim54 back then as it was a terrible missile and only hit people dumb enough to fly straight and literally watch it intercept them

[@102ndsmirnov7]

Ye, I still think the Su-27 flight model needs improving. Top tier in general is also just really boring to play, even worse with this update.

[@ron_23951]

It is really frustrating playing a 12.0 or 12.3 plane and then there are j8 (wich is 12.3) in the enemy team with fox3s

[@rybok_pl1661]

I understand why that is annoying but god I love playing J8F now 😂

[@Madoyon.]

AV-8B also has 4 AMRAAMs at 12.3 (even 12.0 in ground realistic battles). Performance is meh, but if used as a missile bus, it is op when facing 11.3 planes in arb or 11.0 cas in grb.

[@contemptordreadnought]

​@@Madoyon.F4f ice has 4x amraam at 11.7 grb

[@Madoyon.]

@@contemptordreadnought oh right, that too. It's just too rare now so I completely forgot about it, unlike the harrier that was already in game and doesn't require much grind to research those missiles, so it pops up in matches a lot more often.

[@semsjo2364]

I think, that the multipathing change was good, but not for the reasons most would think. The game modes are fundamentally broken for the vehicle we have in game and that not just with this update, they are broken for years. So, why do I think, that it was a good change? I want the matches to be as frustrating and broken as they need to be, that the player base is so pissed off by all this shit, that gaijin has no other option than to finally do something about it. To put it simply: I want to see the world burn, so it can either be rebuild or stay dead.

[@John-Johnsonreal]

playing 6d chess

[@semsjo2364]

@@John-Johnsonreal I hope you also bought stocks in torches and pitchforks ;)

[@moriartyholmes8172]

I agree, sadly too many people out there will just keep mindlessly buying the next top tier $70 prem with no care of what sort of gameplay exists. Gaijin just continually dangling the keys in front of the playerbase.

[@user-ns4zm8qe9p]

Accelerationism

[@sulferix7265]

Yup this comment is exactly what I said before the update dropped. It sucks? Good. Now maybe the stupid ass war thunder community that is constantly tearing itself to pieces pointlessly can stop for 5 seconds and campaign for rb ec with respawns and multiple air fields. It's time to fight like hell for this change. Even if we have to review bomb for it.

[@mathewtheis9139]

I highly doubt they’re going to change their premade pay wall. They’ve set up here. Can you imagine trying to grind 12 three and up through this shit? Fairly certain Gaijin sees the amraams as $

[@jeremydeel1514]

While yes the BRs definitely need to change. But honestly I played 17 hours straight yesterday all 13.0 all day. And honestly VERY FEW of my games were anything but 13.0.

[@mathewtheis9139]

@@jeremydeel1514 that will change after a few weeks and there are a few 12.3 that hand aim120 as well. It’s going to be a PAINFUL experience I believe. I have been know to be a pessimistic from time to time lol

[@jeremydeel1514]

@@mathewtheis9139 100% agree but im HOPING by then the dev team will adjust some of the BRs and MAYBE increase max BR to say 13.3 or MAYBE even 13.7.... but im not too hopeful.

[@jaroslaf6905]

I am glad that I have DEFYN on my side. Reddit sweats seem to love the update. But I say that it's not fun knowing that you're going to lose when you have US, Japan and France on the enemy team. I loved the MiG-29G, now I hate it. It essentially broke the game.

[@jaxastro3072]

Russian aircraft mains crying about having the shittiest radar missiles after 2 years of dominating any engagement beyond 5kms is incredibly ironic and expected. Not a ton of fun to be completely outmatched is it?

[@duncanmcgee13]

Russian mains when they arent completely OP anymore

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

@@jaxastro3072are you stupid? Only idiots would want the game to be imbalanced and one sided lmfao. It’s not even what OP is complaining about.

[@Madretarded]

cry some more. just be better at the game

[@GeneralArmchair]

@@jaxastro3072 I don't know what game that you've been playing, but Fox-2's have been dominating for the past few years and not SARHs. Remind me again how many players flew the flanker during Gaijin's recent tournament when prizes were on the line?

[@vasilije94]

Since they nerfed the shit out of Su 27 and Mig because of better missiles before, can we actually get at least good flight models now for them? Su27 and migs were all about manouverability and incredible flight performance yet they are like bricks in wt.

[@cagingskies9584]

> Gaijin runs playtest > Players universally agree that smaller teamsizes are needed with advanced Fox 3 missiles > Gaijin ignores > Gaijin significantly increases lethality of these missiles by reducing multipathing ???????????? I'm all for multipathing being tweaked, reduced, and even increased for some missiles. But holy shit is top tier awful right now. I think this is the first time ever where im genuinely going to have to step away from top tier.

[@theflyinggasmask]

I stepped away last patch, multipathing turned it into an ground sniffing IRCCM clusterfuck. And while its still a shit show, its at least somewhat playable now.

[@_yukionfire9189]

Simply Mig-29SMT feels waaaaay better to fly than Su-27SM in this update. SMT is more agile and got better radar. And after this update, R-73 is simply outdated cuz 80% of the match you dont need it and its just dead-weight

[@Asghaad]

welcome to the modern air combat where maneuverability and short range dogfighting is about as relevant as gun was in era of SARH and IR guided missiles ... good to have but most of the time just dead weight ...

[@_yukionfire9189]

@@Asghaad ita not about modern combat range. Its about R-73 itself. R-73 is so easy to flare so I would rather bring R-77 and get rid off R-73s. And R-73s are not shining any more cuz their thrust vectoring is not needed anymore in 80% of the matches. But in F-15C its a completely different story. I always bring 2 9Ms or more because its so resistant to flares, and even if you know how to flare it, its up to luck sometimes.

[@Nothing-yq2gz]

12:35 yo finally someone who correctly pronounces the name of the missile

[@ardap3966]

ER vs 7M reversed, except this time the bad missile also gets the horrible flight model. B-but russian bias?

[@yester8039]

Not only worse flight model, worse radar and the F15 radar can guide 8 120's at the same time, but the flanker can only guide 2 at the same time!

[@Ninjasimpmunk]

ER/T still use their dual stage booster as a single one right? Genuinely asking

[@matheusdelimarodrigues4410]

​@@Ninjasimpmunk Yes, it does.

[@Iden_in_the_Rain]

AIM-120A vs R-77 is 100000000x fairer than R-27ER vs AIM-7F (there’s no difference in game between the F and M)

[@Wifenloof]

Yes russian bias , le russian bad no one bad an eye but le Nato le bad ??!?!??!?!?! That UNACCEPTABLE !!!!

[@blacksky121_]

I mostly agree with you on the whole multipath situation I feel like an EC with respawns (and maybe multiple spawns points) on big maps would better fit ARH missiles Current wt maps are mostly like ace combat and less like DCS

[@goldfishPACIFIER]

very true they need lesser players, bigger maps and objectives that are cluttered in groups but each group of objective is very far out of the other objective and spread out airfields with capped player spawn count, like 4 for each airfield

[@Cibohos]

great vid once again, hope to see some prop/early jet gameplay soon again :) keep it up

[@gabrielabreu5200]

Meanwhile the mig 29G and the F4F ICE at 12.7, i already want the next update...

[@janomomo153]

Last i checked the ICE was 11.7

[@amari2509]

@@janomomo153 for ground not air

[@janomomo153]

@@amari2509 makes sense, i'm not used to paying attention to what preset i have selected when checking BR yet

[@DrClef_1]

Basically all previous models are getting absolutely bodied rn by fox 3s. Planes with fox 3s dont even need to keep the lock to erase you from reality, since multipathing got reduced you cannot even hide from them and due to 16v16 or even 12v12, it is basically impossible to evade

[@farmazoniarz]

But its ok because us players got their promised point and click spamraam adventure 😊

[@DrClef_1]

@@farmazoniarz common wt community L

[@N9197U]

Multipathing cutoff is not 60 meters btw. Ive gotten multiple aim7m kills at 35 and even 30 meters enemy height. And this was flying strsight at them, headon.

[@SnuffySpaghetti]

Want to fix this? Add a guns-only mode and the option for 6v6 or 12v12 servers that the PLAYER THEMSELF can toggle on/off whenever they want. It would take literally ten seconds to do but Gaijin needs pool floaties to eat soup so obviously it will never happen.

[@most_sane_piano_enthusiast]

I hate how the SU-27 is a total bus in this game

[@jaxastro3072]

The su27 is a total bus in reality too? The thing is the size of a b17. Irl you get maybe one hard pull and then it turns into a brick. Won't get maneuverable flankers until the SU30/35 come with 3d vectoring

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

@@jaxastro3072I mean it’s not a bus IRL, yes its large, but like the F-15 it’s a massive lifting body. In game, it can’t even get one good turn in lol. Even aircraft like the MiG-29 which is much smaller, and still quite a massive lifting body cannot do a singular good turn against an F-16, F-15, or even F-14. Flight models aren’t as important nowadays but crappy ones make planes miserable to fly.

[@kamraam1464]

@@Boris_The_Turtle How do you know it's not a bus IRL?

[@Vex-777]

​@@jaxastro3072you couldn't be more wrong. The su 27 was built to counter the f 15, it wouldn't be able to do that if it had poor flight performance. Real flight data puts the Su 27 and F 15 very close in performance, both in the rate, and AOA.

[@cookiecracker2]

@@jaxastro3072 where are you getting these ideas? Have you read anything or listened to anything on the su-27?? it's a SUPER MANEUVERABLE fighter meant to counter the f15! What about that makes you think it's a "bus"???

[@auqanova]

from the other side, ive been having a lot of fun running my su27a with just r27ers. having good fundamentals in bvr means i still usually win most of my jousts, or accept a tie when they turn cold. if you stay out of the amraams guaranteed kill range the r27 is very capable of fighting them. and because fox 3s exist now, people actually fly at bvr heights, which means i have a lot more to shoot at, and better situational awareness. add in that because people are now paying more attention to their radar and rwr, they visually see my r27ets less often as well, meaning their lethality is much higher than it was before. only problem is these missiles have insanely good seekers, and notches in valleys with chaff still havent given me a great survival rate, so ive been playing proper bvr out of necessity. which is super fun, until you are stock grinding, out of missiles, or highly outnumbered. so controversial opinion, this is the most fun ive had in top tier in a long time, and i dont even have fox 3s yet. also on your complaint about it being low skill, i fail to see how this is less skillful than fox 1s. all of these shots would be just as doable with r27s. only real difference being the ability to fire at several targets, which is kinda braindead but is so much less likely to kill it evens out in my opinion. (not to mention that fox 2s can do that too, albeit at shorter ranges) we still need them to add alternate airfields and split the teams to spread the game out and slow it down a little. also i wish the smaller matches were smaller still, but ive only gotten one so far across 20-30 games.

[@casematecardinal]

That's probably because you're using a plane that has the only competitive sahr missile in the game now. It's a lot worse for planes like the tornado or f16a.

[@barbarossa2166]

Yeah, instead flying as low as possible, they fly high to maximise fox3 potential. The funny thing is, they threw all their fox3 at the start of the game, even when they entered BFM range they still use fox3 rather than fox1 or IR missile, that's why in this new update patch, I killed more using IR missile than fox3 missile 😅

[@ferrous3262]

this isnt really true the su27 radar is garbage 27er in bvr doesn't matter if they cant turn around and notch a very bad radar

[@barbarossa2166]

@@ferrous3262 well as russian tech tree player i agree that the su27's radar is bad, in fact i prefer to use the mig29 smt for bvr than the su27 even though the su27 can carry more missiles, still a good plane but the radar is a big let down

[@casematecardinal]

@@ferrous3262 it's radar being bad isn't really a factor with data link. It can drop radar lock all day and you could still secure the kill

[@WOLFER.]

The R77 does have quite a but more drag than the AIM-120 irl so it makes sense. But the R77-1 And AIM-120C-5 are in the files, F-16C and SU-27SM can carry those missiles, so maybe one day they will get them? As far I'm aware those missiles and pretty on par with each tracking, tracking, range, and maneuverability, although the R77-1 still has more drag than the AIM-120C-5 but I think they increased the burn time to increase the range.

[@hemendraravi4787]

nope , r77 gets worse the longer it flies , but in like a 15km fight r77 would outperform aim120 , because r77 only gets worse at transonic speeds, so in a 15km fight it probably wont even go lower than mach 2 , but in game r77 is worse than aim120 at all speeds.

[@WOLFER.]

@hemendraravi4787 your wrong, I've been watching the R77 in replays, it goes below mach 2 past 12km, I saw this happen at 5000 feet, so the flanker launched at me from 10 miles away, the missile reach mach 4, half way into the missile was already at mach 2, past that it went below mach 2, like it's bad, and so far it's easy to notch, but not as easy as the PL-12, like the PL-12 imo is the worst missile in game agaisnt chaff.

[@hemendraravi4787]

@@WOLFER. thats because it has much more drag in game , did you even read what i said ?

[@WOLFER.]

@hemendraravi4787 oh I did, you sound like someone who thinks they know what they are talking about when they don't, also it has more drag because of its back stabiliser design, and kanards, its tracking irl is worse than the AIM-120a/b and look ingame same thing, and also clearly ypu didn't read what I wrote, because I specifically said your wrong and that it does infact lose energy to go under mach 2, so one you just made no sense, two your wasting my time, and three do your research and testing. As for the AIM-120C-5 and R-77-1 being on par with each other, that's in range and tracking, maneuverability still goes to the R-77-1.

[@hemendraravi4787]

@@WOLFER. dude grind fins have significantly less drag than planar fins , at higher super sonic speeds , thats one of the main reason why they used it, it performs better at higher speeds go and read those research papers , that clearly state grid fins have an advantage at higher speeds. do your research and testing ? wtf are you yapping about ? im talking about real life , in war thunder r77 has the same drag at mach 4 and at mach 1 , in real life at mach 4 r77 would have much much less drag , while at mach 1 they pretty much become an air brake.

[@somethings8217]

"And that's the plane in a nutshell!" Had me cackling for 5 minutes

[@Ninjasimpmunk]

I’m not looking forward to the stock grind again, also doesn’t make sense to have non fox 3 planes going up against fox 3 capable. I was really hoping for 13.7 at the very least or 14.0

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

Well, in RB it is possible but hard to play in 12.0-12.7 planes vs 13.0 (you’re defensive 99% of time) but in sim any plane without fox-3’s is completely useless cause instead of adding 12.3-13.0 bracket they added 11.7-13.0 bracket so all 12.0 planes face only and only 13.0 while having 30 pops of flares, no IRCCM missiles, no fox-3’s and in some cases (soviet jets) have completely useless RWR which is sad

[@mrnmrk6191]

I think with the Fox - 3 addition, the game has just started its "transition" to a new era of combat, and i hope they update/balance the game accordingly, its gonna be a tough challenge but the community of War Thunder is strong, and if we want something different, we will fight for it.

[@Hazey652]

Funny how bad toptier became once multipath was reduced (as everyone with half a brain knew would happen), I am DREADING stock grinding anything at 12-13.0 now, or even at F14A BR range too...

[@mikkim-mh9bc]

On the flipside, pretty much everyone who actually played the test event with the old multipathing values (including Defyn) said that as long as it stayed like that then ARH missiles weren't going to affect gameplay at all in most cases.

[@MT13X2]

Btw russia never used the r77, they used the r77-1 wich is better in all ways

[@j100j]

Who could've expected this?

[@MrMistasparklez]

After you are done covering the new top tier changes, please revisit the xp-55 I am begging you, brogurt

[@toxickilljoy9037]

Cassegrain antenna need a rework in the su27.The R77 doesnt have a very good seeker so if you want long range you need to point straight at the aircraft, otherwise the pull to get there will make it slow. Treat it like an R27ER until it goes active and youre good. The issue is the focal point of cassegrain antenna is what you adjust when you slew the radar, so you get a lot of sidelobe returns that only appear sometimes if you steer your radar properly. This is an issue with the Russian N001 and VEP, Cyrano anything, and if it has a cassegrain style radar you can rest assured it isn't going to do well lol pair that with a missile and you're asking to pop a blood vessel

[@KaguyasBeat]

I mean even dealing with Semi Actives fired at you at a certain point is near impossible now. Even if you can multipath it, it lands so damn close you get splash damage either way. It's either that or turn to attempt to notch and just give your ass to the enemy where they will stay glued to you for half an hour if an IR missile doesn't kill you. The whole actual BVR thing just simply doesn't work with the current nature of WT in ARB.

[@rowanyuh6326]

This being at the same br as f-15c a better plane in every way is crazy

[@thechampionawesome1574]

The only thing the top tier russian planes had going for them was better radar missiles :( now they don't even have that.

[@Fatdog223]

They weren't just better, they outclassed everything in NATO arsenal for more than a year.

[@jaxastro3072]

Sucks to suck

[@MrNPC]

Unpopular opinion: Give them R-27EA (R-27ER w/ R-77 seeker)

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

Then it will be the most f*cking OP missile ig until 120D is added cause it is better than 120C-5 its better than C-7, better than 77-1 and almost on par with 77M so I’d love to see that missile ig but definitely not rn, for now it would be balanced to give em 77-1

[@zzmuffin2]

@@СергейНикольский-я2цusa copeium

[@ser43_OLDC]

@@СергейНикольский-я2ц The 27EA has a max range of 120km while the 77-1 has 110km of range and the 77-m has around 200km of range

[@Likeaworm]

Was the R77-T ever produced? Would be cool to have the IR version.

[@ser43_OLDC]

@@Likeaworm wasn't produced but the r77 is like the r27. A modular missile meaning that they can't develop new parts for the missile and modify the old missiles

[@Andras889]

15:16 I see you got hit, lucky you, you made it back to the airfield

[@regn97]

Back then: ussr jets = great radar missile, great IR missile, worst FM. worst Radar. = 2 pros, 2 cons Back then: usa jets = decent radar missile, great IR missile, great FM. great Radar. = 3 pros, 1cons USA main CRYING about r27er (the only pro of the ussr jets over the usa) -How to counter the r27er ? -Fly close to the ground, it will lose lock easily due to the trash radar and get close use aim9m's or dogfight with your superior FM. Done Now: ussr jets = terrible fox 3, great IR missile(useless in this state of gameplay), worst FM, worst Radar, = 1 pros, 3 cons (only pro is r73 but useless) Now: usa jets = best fox 3, great IR missile(useless in this state of gameplay), best FM, best Radar, = 4 pros How to counter AIM120s? Fly close to the grou..... oh waitt ! Even if i somehow manage to get closer i still have my trash FM ! And now they are saying that the 3 pros that the usa jets have now over the ussr jets is the same like when the ussr jets had 1 pro over the usa jets back then.

[@dbzfanexwarbrady]

Stock Grind in another Tornado F.3 is just an insult

[@ericw2674]

NATO has better flight models and better radar, better missile. Huge In SIM, it is a challenge.

[@srbobingtonthe2nd]

Don’t forget the new f-15c and su-27sm whatever are not the best version of each. There is a f-15c late which just like it’s brother the strike eagle, can carry 10 aim-120s, 6 side winders, and 2 fuel tanks in one load out, and the best su-27 has canards and r-80’s I believe. So there are worse

[@RollingThunder911]

Have to say i felt this disheartened after such a short time after the update drops. I usually play air RB for a few weeks after a major update but after 2 Days i feel like im done already. The meta with the new Missiles is just not fun whatsoever. Shame but kinda expected

[@Hartwig870]

Okay, bye dickhead.

[@flyingtower]

Can’t wait for the F-4F ICE video. How Gaijin thought that BR was acceptable is ludicrous.

[@MarlinHunter673]

Hopefully they'll pull a 9-17->9-19 conversion again and make the SM into the SM3 (stronger engines, 2 more pylons).

[@Fatdog223]

So the su27 needs 12 missiles and a better flight model because r77 is slightly worse than NATO?

[@MarlinHunter673]

@@Fatdog223 There is, quite literally, not a single aspect in which the Su-27SM is better than the F-15C. Everything about it is significantly worse: it has an incomparably worse FM, 2.5 times less countermeasures and carries less ARHs AND they're much shittier. The ONLY thing it has going for it is that its max ARH loadout doesn't sacrifice any IR missiles but what good is that when it can't make it into WVR and when it does it's a flying fucking brick?

[@zeta4687]

we need 13.7 now NOW i can't play in mig29G anymore

[@exhausting_thoughts]

The last minute of rant you did was the definition of preach. Cheers, we gotta keep kicking until Gaijin notices.

[@Squeaky_Ben]

I have to wonder if the F-4F ICE will finally take the crown as the worst aircraft ingame.

[@rainbowappleslice]

i'm not a massive fan of russian aircraft but that blue camo is amazing

[@SirCabooseCCCP]

Biggest issue i had, and that me and my friends atleast agreed on is before when the ER was OP asf, it always felt that atleast if you were in a NATO jet you could beat the russian in a dogfight, and it kinda was a balance of better missiles vs better prefomance (im not a NATO jet player but i asked soem friends and they agreed on this so dont hate me im coping), but now you just kinda die with shit missiles shit radar and shit flight preformance, i just cant reccomend anyone to grind out the Su-27 cuz it literally does nothing better then the F-15 unless you love the plane like me

[@bingusbobby5012]

Try the buffed Phoenix, if you hold lock they can pull 180

[@shahramtondkarmobarakie1824]

NATO players can get an F-15 at 8.0 and still find something to complain about whenever a warsaw pact aircraft/tank does semi-decent

[@ahta5708]

Don't you just love how "NATO players bad" mfs accuse half the playerbase of being braindead when one update gives them something too strong and just casually forget all the times some updates gave Russia some of the most broken stuff in the game

[@stormjet814]

@@ahta5708russia and the US fighting over who gets the more broken vehicle in the patch

[@thatoneguy1741]

@@stormjet814lol right, nice to just sit back and spectate while other nations still get neglected

[@blackstar9481]

​@@ahta5708my brother in Christ have you not seen how German players behave??

[@v3es473]

I mean genuinely, both sides are shit. NATO players moaned about the R-27ER (which was no doubt the best bvr missile in the game for quite some time), russian players responded essentially with "lmao cope", now the reverse is happening. Both sides blow ass

[@lasi7000]

gaijin really just gave a middle finger to all ussr players by giving them shit radars, flight models and missile while giving the best flight model,radar and missile to america cant play any br bracket that can include a fox 3 carrier the r77 loses energy so fast a f16 can outrun it at 7 km by turning slightly

[@자자-t1q]

0:57 ur voice is so good

[@tuddle10265l]

0:56 christ that voice caught me so off guard lmfao

[@dontworry2379]

I really don’t understand how we are going to have to stick grind with no fox 3’s and no multipathing

[@janusz4156]

Ideal fighter to Ace Combat 8. 45 years of Su-27 "Flanker" in 2022.

[@thesenate8965]

I'll be honest I do actually like the shift in tactics and strategy that the reduced multipathing has created (I thought I would absolutely hate it), but the game mode is in desperate need of change to make the experience actually enjoyable. Grinding the stock mig-29G has been pretty miserable.

[@Registered_Simp]

Just from observation, I think the main problem with the R-77's range has to do with its guidance. It wiggles away all its speed, which is not helped with the higher induced drag from the grid-fins. The missiles range should be more in-line with Aim-120A/B in most cases, but Gaijin hasn't gotten around to fixing this missile yet, as it appears to be the same as on dev server. AAM-4 used to be the single worst radar missile on dev before they fixed it on live server. Now, it's possibly the best ARH missile in the game as of now for high-altitudes. R-Darter/Derby, MICA-EM, PL-12, and R-77 appear to have not yet gotten their fix. Aim-120A/B and AAM-4 feel mostly finished.

[@hemendraravi4787]

they are not able to model variable drag for r77s grid fins.

[@therealwildboar1007]

@DEFYN can you make a video about the stock grind of the Tornado F3 Late, F4F ICE and nee Sea Harrier. I think the state of those aircraft deserves talking about.

[@152mmapfsds]

Gaijin simply wants revenge against defyn

[@justfly7730]

Missiles flying is like watching flighradar24

[@ScottishSquirrel_]

The R-77 might be somewhat bad, but that thing will chase you for like 45 seconds, I swear it is terrifying just hearing the Warning and praying it won't hit you

[@rodneycook3674]

I’m having a terrible time getting a lock with HMD with even the tiniest poof of chaff. Been using tws on the smallest scan mode.

[@zenki_ls400]

i grinded the SM first because as we all thought it would be the best meta jet and then it turns out to be the opposite and the good ole F-16C becomes the best thing ever

[@SirTankBall]

I mostly main ground, and I completely neglected my Russian Cas, so now I've finally gotten into it, just one question, I see people with special marks on their wingtip, just wandering what they mean and how they're obtained

[@loneirregular1280]

My lobbies I have a completely different experience. I barely see good BVR jousting, people still hugging the ground, and my AMRAAMs still miss an awful lot. People basically dive into the planet whenever they are alerted for a missile.

[@commitselfdeletus9070]

I personally don’t really mind the r77, though its biggest issue seems to be in the way they programmed its autopilot. It likes to turn way too late and then ends up trying to basically chase the target, together with it wobbling most of the time it’s in flight

[@Marco-cg7fb]

I've been trying out the 27ER in this patch, and i gotta admit, they are still the king of bvr

[@terrado6746]

And the era of the “true” skill issue beggins

[@colonel_cookies_]

this update would be perfect if 1 the R-77 get it's normal range (there is no one on the internet suggesting that the AIM-120A has more range) 2 the maximal number of players per match are cap to 12

[@aether-gaming.]

those grid fins are terrible for drag down low, but the R-77 should at least have more range than the 120A/B at higher altitudes (like above 5km?) and i don’t know if it got that either definitely the maximum player count should decrease, though good old ARB EC would be ideal

[@UUUU-dn9wz]

@@aether-gaming. grids are terrible when turning at transonic speeds, at supersonic speeds they have some advantages (the people who designed the thing are not stupid, they put them there for a reason). In game the R-77 is simply modelled badly

[@aether-gaming.]

@@UUUU-dn9wz absolutely, but given how most fights in ARB take place down low anyway (sigh…) that drag will always be a problem i just don’t know whether they actually modeled the drag dropping off at high altitude / supersonic speeds (probably not)

[@UUUU-dn9wz]

@@aether-gaming. I don't think so, as even when firing in orbit (over 12000m) aim120s still feel better

[@colonel_cookies_]

@@aether-gaming. I do have the Mig-29SMT with the R-77 and I also have the F-17C with the AIM-120A. I tested both of them in very high altitude ~10km I am confident with the AIM-120 to shot at 40km and with R-77 only to a max of 30km. Currently the amram has a better max range than the R-77 in every situation even when it doesn't have to turn (in head ons)

[@user-bm2xf6io3c]

I think the "new meta" is just a reflection of real life, guys. Lets face it; in modern warfare, USA comes out on top (especially when you take away the buffs/nerfs of Russian and American aircraft).

[@kizzy35]

it’s a little wild to me that swedes have to grind a whole new grippen that’s the same thing as the a but other trees just get fox 3s

[@h3069]

Don't get me started on the four viggens with mildly different load outs

[@Sol-Orion]

Isn't that exactly like the other trees? I didn't think anything Russian got fox 3's except the new Su-27

[@N9197U]

29smt has the r77​@@Sol-Orion

[@kizzy35]

@@Sol-Orion it’s the fact that sweden players have to grind 420,000 rp to get a plane that’s the same except for having amraams and britain just gets fox 3s

[@jaxastro3072]

​@@kizzy35The worst part is that the JAS39A is not only capable of using Amraams, they were it's main weapon. Skyflash was never even used operationally on Gripen. It's retarded

[@andre232323]

Missile tier is getting more and more tough to evade.

[@ElDoyle33]

Out of curiosity, do you mess around with any other flight games like DCS?

[@heavyquestionmarks5294]

Another issue now is like every nation in the game has a variant of the F16/F15, and most of them got the aim 120 lol

[@getbrutal4388]

Your intro is EXACTLY how DCS feels (range stuff), I think this is prolly pretty accurate. They'll have to think of something for this. I've won a filthy amount of dogfights in multiplayer dcs with Russian planes (su27, su33). It's all about the first turn + hmd IR missile, very hard to dodge even with flares, you always win the first turn, especially if you use the super maneouver. If you don't kill after this turn you're dead, which is kinda how it works in WT atm. When it comes to longer range stuff, like in the Growling Sidewinder DCS server, I've always stayed low and flanked in the 27 or 33. The missiles are accurate and fast so if you get the jump you usually get the kill. The problem is RWRs are way more clear, there's the missile diamond, 3d panning camera and missiles are way easier to dodge in WT in general, plus there's never 12 ppl throwing aim120s at you in those servers at the same time if you're on the deck cause people don't wanna waste the missiles and the maps have a lot of cover. All in all it seems like this is the correct balance for this era of planes now that we have Fox-3s. The only thing is maybe 120A and 120B should be slightly easier to dodge.

[@justaguy1186]

Easy to do well, but surviving is what matters and most people don’t

[@miss_bec]

Spain, Pyrenees, and Mysterious Valley are the only playable maps right now on account of actually having terrain cover that you can play around. The fact that maps like Golan Heights, Vietnam, Kamchatka, and City (my previous favourite map ever) are all unplayable boils down to just how little terrain there is to exploit to make games interesting. Matches go one of two ways: you're on a map with terrain and you have fun, or you're on a map with no terrain and it's a coinflip whether you die from a plane that's 25km away. I like BVR, I like simulator stuff, but this is insufferable.

[@russman3787]

Wow looks fun, I think I’ll stick with props and gun jets though

[@errornamenotfound2513]

"R-77 worst Fox 3" u may wanna look at R-DARTER/DERBY first

[@jessicaallen2150]

big sad for israel cause IRL the DERBY fucks

[@aleski6506]

yeah you may wanna go do some listening comprehension exercises

[@cybeckjay]

Something finnicky is definitely going on with the seeking. My Aim-9L's are locking on to bullets being shot at me from from aspect