Delboy's Garage:- How to Calculate valve shim sizes !

Wrong Valve clearance?, Need to change the Shim?, How to work out size !
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[@grosbeakmc]

Hiya Penny and Del - great video! I thought you might have skipped over this part and gone straight to installing the new shims in you last video. My apologies! You have provided a full explanation of the measurements and calculations needed to determine which shims you need, AND you have given me an idea what to ask for on my birthday, which brightens up the otherwise bleak (Canadian) month of February. Thanks as always for the quality content, dear friends. Take care and ride safe!

[@Moonfleet41]

Wonderful to hear you're going to treat yourself to the magic measuring tool... another person with a birthday in February, I knew we had more in common! I think we have some of your weather over here too, hovering above freezing and with high humidity, it's wet and foggy as well and with the dark, grey days it feels like the end of the world sometimes! But soon be Spring and we can get out and be silly in the sunshine again... have a great week there, keep safe, D&Px

[@markmaguire3554]

Measure current clearance. Add that to current shim size. That gives you the total valve to cam size. Take away the spec clearance. What is left is your shim required size. Easy.

[@nickhellen6303]

I was waiting for this one. I thought you handled it very well. Honestly, if people have never done this before, they really MUST get a workshop manual. I’m pretty sure most Manufacturers include a chart with valve clearances vs shim size: and then have “look up” cross reference tables which will TELL the person what size shim they require. ( I think many new people get confused with working out correct clearances-lees-is-more etc) ie: the valve clearance with the current shim is either too small or too large- you need THIS SIZE NEW SHIM to bring the clearance within spec. Thank you both for the professionalism you display.

[@Moonfleet41]

Thank you for your kind words Nick, I think we've highlighted here the common confusion in thinking that as time goes on, any clearance would wear and get wider, rather than smaller... caused by the mis-understanding that the wear in question is not the cam wearing the shim face, but the valve recessing in to the head... it's these simple mis-understandings of the mechanical principles that causes the confusion... plus of course, the worry of the expense of getting it wrong... more reasons to love your Harley or your Goldwing with it's hydraulic tappets lol

[@glaucolorenzetti1343]

As an amateur and self taught mechanic I have done the valve check and adjustment a number of times on my old 2005 v-strom 1000... It was challenging at first but I always managed to complete the job successfully, so much so that the last time I did it I also replaced the camshafts with those from an SV 1000 (had to relocate the pin that locates the position on the camshaft in order for this to work on the V-strom) and the joy when I put everything together and the bike actually started the first time with no issues (and a lot more ponies) was worth all the hassle.

[@Moonfleet41]

Sounds like a great project and what great ingenuity!

[@glaucolorenzetti1343]

​@@Moonfleet41 thank you Del, I've been watching your videos for ages, you've been an inspiration to me.

[@Moonfleet41]

Thank you for such kind support, it's an honour to help.. take care, !

[@johnmclean4911]

You should have explained the reason for checking your cam sim clearance Del. That way people might have understood the reason why doing it. The reason is you need a small gap between the bottom of the lob and the sim face. That is so the valve is shut completely but if the gap is to tight the valve might not be seated properly. The tolerances like you said are between 10 and 20 but if the gap is to big between the sim face and the bottom of the lob that means the valve is not opening fully when the lob cames around to open the valve. If you get all the gaps correct it just makes your engine run better/smoother. Once you get the hang of it, it's not a hard job but having the tools you have it's easy money Dell. 😀

[@Moonfleet41]

Very remedially explained mate... well done!

[@loddude5706]

@johnmclean - "Welcome to the party, pal." : )

[@Jim-nm1en]

I have done the shims on several engines over the years using a surface grinder and magnetic table. You simply grind off what you need to get the required clearance. It doesn't matter about the marked thickness of the shim if you have a micrometer to check it. When removing stock shims I would routinely check the sizing as these things are made to tolerances so could be plus or minus a fraction. Del's advice to invest in a micrometer is sound.

[@nickvinten7803]

I’m a Service Engineer (medical devices) and have tinkered with bikes most of my days, even now valve clearances give me the cold sweats, last one I did was a ZX12R when the inevitable leaking cam cover gasket got replaced. Full workshop manual (which was excellent) and sleepless nights later job done, the strip down to get there was a blooming nightmare and clearance to the chassis was challenging. Good little series so far mate, looking forward to seeing a road test video once she’s done 👌🤘 Can appreciate why the disclaimer, these days of where there’s blame (perceived) there’s a claim make me angry as it gives the clueless an excuse to not face up to their own mistakes 🤬

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Nick.. yes, isn't it rewarding after all that trepedation and worry, getting it done, all the gaskets sealed, and a quiet running motor as a result.. plus of course, another skill set to your bow.. But don't sweat it buddy, i know tech's that will side step the jib at any cost if they possibly can, not because they don't know how to do it, but becasue it's so invilved and critical..lol!

[@ObsessiveCarDetailer]

A really worthwhile addition to this mini series Del. My latest bike is less than 6 months old and Im past it so Im never going to have to do it but be warned if It does ever need doing you are going to find a miserable old git knocking on your door offering you cash. 🤣

[@Moonfleet41]

It certainly does seem like a job that crosses the line for most people... I guess it's the fear of the unknown and the possible expense of rectifying things you might get wrong... thank you for your kind support as always!

[@johnj4558]

Another good video Del. One part I'm struggling to understand is how an existing shim can be too thick? I would have thought it would wear to become too thin. I can't get my head around it. Would it be possible for you to do a follow up explaining what happens with engine wear that causes the shims to need changing? Thanks for all your videos which are always good.

[@Moonfleet41]

A perfect example of how easy it is to mis-understand how the wear happens John, there's no need for a video on it, it's as easy as this... the wear doesn't occur between the cam lobe and the shim, those two surfaces are rock hard and have oil between them... the wear occurs lower down in the engine with the valve itself where it seals against the hole in the cylinder head, it wears it's way in to that hole... this is know as valve recess... it literally beats it's way in to the cylinder head over time and miles... and this means the valve stem pokes up further towards the cam, closing the gap. This is why we have shims so that as the wear occurs, we can fit thinner ones to replace the gap... I'm sure you get it now mate. Thanks for your support, it's appreciated.

[@johnj4558]

@Moonfleet41 Ahh..got it. Thanks Del I understand now.

[@savinggracechurch4112]

Wow, really, really complicated, totally beyond my level of skill. Would definitely call a professional in on that one. Thankfully, I never had to do it on the FJ. Thank God I got another bike with screw and locknut. Great viewing once again Del and Penny x

[@Moonfleet41]

Ah bless that screw and locknut, what a wonderful system! Simple and easy and above all, cheap... take care and be safe, D&Px

[@paulregner5335]

I was able to get a complete shim kit (9.48mm diameter) for my Triumph (Scrambler 1200XC) for under $70. Coincidentally, they're the same diameter shims that I needed on my old Kawasaki 900 Z-1 I had back in the 1980's. I wish I'd kept the kit I had then, it would have saved me $70. With that bit of trivia out of the way, I think you missed an alternate career calling: teaching maths to gear/petrol heads. lol

[@Moonfleet41]

Thank you Paul, I guess the Triumph would have been a tad cheaper, having half as many cylinders, I considered buying a kit, but have found in the past they leave you wanting if you need a single consistent size constantly... take care and stay safe!

[@nickhellen6303]

Coincidences are weird. My Triumph T595 uses 25mm diameter shims. Exactly the same size as my 1980 Honda CBX 6 cylinder. One has 12 valves- the other 24!

[@rickrogers2649]

It's easy to get confused with 16 valves so I think the drawing you made is such a great idea. The color markings really keep things organized. A great teaching tool and a great learning tool for us. That digital micrometer is way cool too. Ice, snow and single digits (F) here. I hope you guys are fairing better there. Cheers to you both. ❤ 👍👍

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Rick, I'm glad you approve, I thought the different colours on the drawing would make it simpler, but this whole series of videos remains an 'enteraintment only' upload whoever detailed the video might be, people will always skip and miss bits, so still we advise not to attempt this job if you're not fully confident of your own abilities (and honest with yourself lol)... Take care buddy, D&Px

[@enduromotorradtouren]

That disclaimer at the end may be necessary in modern times, Del. I'm too lazy to do valves myself. My dealer is an expert I can trust. He's much faster than me and he doesn't charge absurd prices. If I want to save money I do other things myself like changing tyres, oil, fork oil... By the way, winter's the perfect time for a dealer's, you don't have to heat your shed ;-) Happy days, Günter/Nürnberg

[@Moonfleet41]

You're right indeed, there's always good reasoning for paying someone else to do these jobs, as long as you can afford it.

[@loddude5706]

Far be it from me to actively admit to having played the odd game of 'musical shims' too . . . but I must. Good vid, well explained & well shot . . . (Comes to us all eventually) (Early 80's, got lucky & only needed 4 new ones from Laverda . . . selling the missus was the painful bit : )xx

[@Moonfleet41]

Yes indeed, I've had a fair few bikes where I've got away with either no changes needed, or just one or two at most... so it looks like that luck finally ran out and it's caught up with me!

[@charlieprobets7451]

Great video Del, as they always are. You have taught me a lot and saved me fortune over the last few years - so cheers for that 😉 Question: could you not make your own shims on your lathe? Or would accurately measuring the cuts be the issue? 🤔

[@adrianzmajla4844]

Proper heat treatment for correct hardness, and surface grinding to size and proper surface finish. This needs way more than a lathe in the shed and would be a very expensive fuck up, not worth trying. Unless you film it so we can see the resulting carnage.

[@Moonfleet41]

No Charlie, not at all, shims are precision items and way outside the ability of DIYers to make!

[@Goldwing1500rider]

I always have supplies on hand, buying a kit package of 10, last such long time. I’ve had enough last me 10-15 years working. I put used ones in separate used bins when comes to that. I’ve never like re-use shims as may face unforeseen issues with them. Personally, I don’t trust some KZbinrs that’s not by the book. Good lesson here.

[@Moonfleet41]

As long as you measure a shim and it's the correct size, it's generally ok to re-use them as long as they're not showing any signs of scuffing, or obvious wear, but of course, for the small amount of money they cost you could just replace them!

[@Goldwing1500rider]

I agree there! I measured few, some are weak iron or china made. Just my own precaution just replace new. If no choice, then… 😊

[@davecaddy513]

Just done the valve clearances on my T100. I made up an Excel spreadsheet for the calculaton and then recorded the shim size installed. The printout is now in my folder so next time I know what size shim is installed without having to remove them.

[@Moonfleet41]

Exactly that, or in the old mehanic's world you take that sheet I wrote, write a date on it and tuck it in the bike's history file, same result!

[@davidgallop484]

Yes we had to adjust shims on vw engines , a lot were put In upside down, they are now hydraulic, but they ,some times didn’t jack up, again we had to find the tapper and replace it finding it with screw driver and find the element which bounced ! Great fun valve clearances adjustment

[@Moonfleet41]

It sure is David, 'finding the tapper' is endless fun aye, speially when it's a partial leak, and only taps for a few seconds on start up....lol!

[@rsbharley4766]

Hi Del & Penny, hope all is going well. Excellent video mate and I agree with you 100% if you don't have mechanical aptitude, just pay a shop to do it. That's one thing I do miss, is the big shim box. Enjoy the last part of your week and stay safe. Cheers

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks mate👍.. just covering ourselves and making it clear that this is a job you need some level so practice and understanding of if you're to make a good job of it.. Still cold and damp here, seems like it's been winter for months.. but big rain and storms coming, so at least that'll help wash off some of the salt on the roads so we can get out again.. Gimmie some good ole Aussie red sand any day..lol! Thanks for your awesome support as always.. D&Pxx

[@Lunas11]

There are shim calculators for some models online. You put in information of current clearances and shim sizes and it calculates wich shims could be swaped and what shim sizes should be bought new.

[@springy-2112]

Good job putting that across Del. I've had to do it on many vehicles but i doubt i could ever explain it. " ordering with confidence" wasn't that Will Powers? love that song! 👍✌️❤️

[@Moonfleet41]

I think that was the song mate, something about having spinach on your tools...! Or is that another song lol. Not trying to make a tutorial here, just thought I'd explain the process, maybe justifies why the dealers charge what they do for it!

[@springy-2112]

@Moonfleet41 it came over well, and I'm so glad you ignored the numbers on the shims and mic'd them yourself. Those which had markings of course. It's ok doing this for yourself but putting on the Internet I'm sure required a lot of careful thought. Top job buddy. 👍✌️❤️

[@Moonfleet41]

Yes indeed mate, many years of doing this and always decided not to, it's so common that viewers skip forward and miss important guidance... but as long as we make it clear this is purely for entertainment, and NOT to be used as a tutorial, then im fine with making a demonstration of the process..

[@joe79933]

I'm an Engineer, structural not mechanical, but deal with numbers all day long... hopefully buildings don't fall down :-) But my head just exploded! Take Del's advice seriously folks!

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks Joe, glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for the kind words of support.

[@paulradcliffe2391]

Nice one Del 👍 Deffo a complex task and I will certainly be saving this video to watch and rewatch (when the time comes 😮) to hopefully get my head around this 🤞🤞🤞 Keep up the fantastic work Del 'n' Pen 👍

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks Paul.👍 Glad you enjoyed it, and happy that you can use it in the future. Take care and thank you for your kind support.

[@guyfuller1369]

Right. Well, my brain is tired. I’m off to have a rest and stop my head from spinning. No shade on you, Del, nor on your explanation. It’s just that I’m one step below utter novice, all the way down to total numpty, and I need a nap.

[@Moonfleet41]

Fair play Guy, there's nothing wrong with just riding your bike and paying others to take care of it's needs... I wouldn't be happy knowing my local GP is a diesel mechanic... we all need specialists!

[@jerryokeeffe9886]

That a job for someone that understands engine pal,it was good you explained that, because if you start that job and run in to trouble you might not get a mechanic to finish it,you have to do it right .

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks Jerry, it is perhaps yes, an intermediate mechanical skills job at least, but not outside the abilities of anyone with some basic experience!

[@tinks43]

Oh what fun you had, I think I’ll pass on that one. Good that you can return them if unused 👍🏻

[@Moonfleet41]

Yeah, not a task that inspires everyone..lol! Hope you're well buddy, soon be spring aye !

[@howder1951]

Good disclaimer, interprets as : "don't foul up!" Great video Del enjoyed it very much, cheers!

[@Moonfleet41]

Glad you enjoyed it Sir.. just making sure not to instill false confidence, it can seem easier when you see it done, so always good to provide a word of caution aye !

[@petern1146]

Looking at your chart a clearance of 0.05mm when the engine is cold could easily be closed when the engine is hot and could have caused damage to the valve or the valve seat. I would take the head off and check.

[@Moonfleet41]

Easy tiger, a simple leak down test can prove that... no need to go ripping things apart!

[@petern1146]

Do you think it would be worthwhile at this stage?

[@geraldfitzgibbon7428]

Do the shims get any wear on them ? What causes the clearance of valve to open up or close up ? Confused !!

[@Moonfleet41]

Shims hardly ever wear, the clearances most usually close, rather than open, which is caused by the valve recessing in to the valve seat, making the valve stem push further up through the head, closing the clearance, so a thinner shim re-opens it.

[@jamesweber4938]

Nicely explained. The disclaimers are not a bad thing given the liability possibilities in this sue everybody world we now live in. Loads of ads on U.S TV advertising that they want to represent you in a law suit. Hurt in a car call William Attar !

[@arnybarmy]

Sound advice at the end. I don't have the experience or competence to attempt this but it's interesting to see how it is done. Great video again Del!

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it.

[@TheNintendoFanBoy01]

Here Here. I always say to my motorcycle students when they read a rules sheet I made up.... Basically it says don't blame me. I will tell you things to keep you safe but your hands are on the bars not mine. One Hundred percent I agree if your not comfortable or don't have enough experience get a professional to do it.

[@richardwhittle2302]

Clever stuff but get the warning Del!!

[@Liam1304]

Could you use a Vernier instead of a micrometer? Thanks again Del, excellent stuff.

[@Moonfleet41]

Not at all mate, there's a great deal more accuracy with a mic, which is required to get an accurate measurement.

[@ThomasMoore.1]

Excellent video Del. Concise.

[@Moonfleet41]

Many thanks!

[@troycramp1333]

Another great tutorial

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks again Troy !

[@johnfrayne6421]

Very well said at the end there mate! Good point to remind those 🤝

[@Moonfleet41]

Sure thing bruv, just being clear!

[@andyjrichie6709]

Very well explained 😊 excellent video , 😊

[@tonywaterhouse5291]

Hi Del, at least the disclaimer should stop the trolls from having a go at you, excellent vlog, P.S I wont be doing anything like that., I know my limitations LOL

[@ricardorocha4811]

Nice one Del

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks Richard 👍

[@Here.there.andaware]

Awesome video! Thanks Del I’m looking at every possible valve shim video, aside from reading the Haynes manual, and doing all the normal maintenance myself thanks to your channel (and the manual of course) to collect the confidence to do this thing within the next 12 months. But only if the buildup confidence is enough at that time 😂🤷🏼‍♂️, else I will hand it over to the dealer.. Thanks again, Greetings from the Netherlands, Gert

[@Moonfleet41]

Thank you so much for your kind words Gert. Im glad to read that you're putting in the leg work and research, that's no different to how any apprentice learns their trade, so good luck with it, and im glad you take the view that the dealer is an option if you're still not sure enough.. mistakes cost more money to rectify than a dealer charges to do it.. so see how you go and Good luck. Del.

[@trig]

If the shims are to large then someone has put the wrong shims in previously? My thinking being the shims are to take up the space left when parts are worn so you would expect the shims to be to thin, am I wrong?

[@Moonfleet41]

Yeah, slightly mate... as the miles roll on, the valves will wear the seats down and that means the valve stem pokes up higher, closing the clearance..so you fit a slimmer shim to reset the clearance. !

[@trig]

@@Moonfleet41 Cheers fella! I had it totally arse backwards. I was thinking the rocker arm faces where wearing down so the gap was opening.

[@tommylitchfield3450]

Don't think of it as the shims wearing, but the valve seats and faces wearing. That makes the valve installed height taller, which makes the cam lobes closer to the valve and the existing shims. A skinnier shim puts the tolerance for expansion due to heat induced growth back to kosher dimensions. Your mileage (and valve clearance) may vary :)

[@thomasedward9065]

Great video del think ide strip the bike and ride it to someone to check mine save a bit of cost of them removing the plastics etc

[@Moonfleet41]

That's always a good plan, good economic thinking..!

[@thomasedward9065]

@@Moonfleet41 cheers del

[@dutch2433]

What a great vid. Thanks Del

[@Moonfleet41]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it!

[@patrickdavis7815]

thanks for the honesty...your the man

[@wobblysauce]

Yep, not something to do with your daily and need it now putting yourself under the pump.

[@kerm9807]

Yet another great video Team You would be a awesome teacher of apprenticeship training young and older people, as you are very patient and not a big head know it all

[@Moonfleet41]

Thank you so much for such kind words.

[@johnnewson5039]

Just ride your bike and forget about shims. Period.

[@tommylitchfield3450]

That's how you lose compression, screw up your air/fuel mixture, and burn exhaust valves. Period :)

[@LS-uv9gg]

Another fantastic episode. Eagerly looking forward to the follow up!

[@Moonfleet41]

Yes me too, shims all ordered, just awaiting delivery! Thank you for your support as always.

[@revealingfacts4all]

noob question: what causes the clearances to change? Guessing the cam lobe riding on the shim is causing a wear pattern but in the video I don't see any noticeable wear pattern...

[@Moonfleet41]

No, it's the valve itself wearing it's way in to the seat in the cyclinder head, actually forcing the valve stem upwards closer to the cam and closing the gap... it's just a wear and tear thing mate... and as you pointed out, the valve shims don't really wear unless there's a lack of lubrication.