Delboy's Garage, Simple Skills, "Annealing Aluminium"

[@mikenco]

PERFECT demonstration! I have today cut out, filed, sanded a new gear lever for my '29 Matchless. I need the top couple of inches canted over, so it doesn't trap my thumb against the tank. Your video gave me enough info to know what is happening with the aluminium when I add the bends. Cheers mate!

[@TonyUrryMakes]

Precipitation hardening of aluminum is done by heating it and letting it cool slowly. Quenching softens it. Copper behaves in the same way. This video is one of the few that gets it right.

[@L35inColorado]

Much thanks -- I had to reuse a couple of aluminum brake line washers. I used your tip with the soot as my indicator before heating the washers with the torch. So far, no leaks!

[@mikenco]

Great tip!!!

[@bmfilmnut]

Thanks. The odd thing is that I just watched another video on this subject and, in that video, the aluminium was allowed to cool slowly and it then appeared to be softer than your quenched aluminum. Also, he used a Sharpie rather than sootas an indicator which is more convenient, obviously.

[@paulbuckberry7683]

Every day's a school day.........even Sunday eh!!. It's those little nuggets that makes shop life more interesting and easier. Thanks for sharing!

[@Moonfleet41]

Cheers Paul, much appreciated mate.

[@kennethmccurdie5833]

Almost 50 years ago I had to anneal as part of my panelbeating City and Guilds. The technique then to determine the correct temperature was to heat the metal until the wood of a used match, for example, would leave a score mark on the surface. And yes, I did pass my certification!

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Kenneth, that sounds a cool method, I guess it's all about judging the temperature, it's critical not to overheat it, specially if it's thin stuff as it melts in a moment as soon as you pass the critical point... just weird how it never changes colour lol

[@bodeine454]

From what I've just learned in a couple of other videos a black Sharpie marker (black felt tip marker) works like the suet trick. I haven't done it yet myself but plan to soon. Much more convenient than using suet.

[@mikenco]

I will test this. My one reservation is that the chemical compound of the pens could change over time, but the candle soot is mostly just carbon, surely?

[@Lostinthesupermarket11]

Good tips as always, the candle tips great for those of us who don't have oxy torches. I remember seeing a video a while back of Jesse James(possibly metal church) where he made a gas tank where he had to anneal it more than once it had work hardened.

[@Moonfleet41]

Cheers buddy, and aren't those videos the best ever, I loved the whole Metal Church series and wish he would do more of them... and yes you can re-anneal ali as many times as you want, it hardens up pretty quick once you start working it !

[@greenmarine5]

Copper and Aluminum will anneal perfectly fine without quenching. the only thing quenching does is speed up the process before you can handle the metal. No need to quench copper or Aluminum at all

[@BJPr12]

Hello! I’m trying to make a jack plate to raise my boat’s transom a good 5”. Provided that I anneal a 1/4” aluminum plate correctly to bend its horizontal edges 90 degrees to make a U shape with the whole plate, will those 90 degree bends be strong enough to hold a 95 lbs outboard motor? How does one know the 90 degree bends won’t debilitate after being annealed? In other words, when would the plate regain its strength at the bends? Thanks for your video btw!

[@springy-2112]

Yes indeed , this is a good guide in your garage basic skills usi g what is on hand.. Yes there are other technical ways the "professionals" do it ..but we are at home with what we have ..good show Del.. ☮❤

[@Moonfleet41]

Ayup mate, you're dead right, there's always the 'proper' way to do stuff, but it usually means proper equipment and proper knowledge, which none of us of the great un-washed are in possession of, so use what you have, and make it work aye?? Have a great week buddy... pip pip , D&PX

[@americanotakuinc.9637]

I never knew about the soot trick when gauging the temperature even for all the time I was TIG welding aluminum, Del. Thanks, mate! Just another tool of knowledge in the toolbox that is my brain. Now if only I could get rid of all the nuts rattling around up there.

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks buddy, i think we all have those rattling nuts aye.. come from a life of playing with bikes aye..lol Great to hear from you as ever.. Del.

[@stevelangworthy9553]

Thank you for the demonstration and explanation but after you've annealed and shaped it, how do you get it hardened again? If it remains soft it may not be strong enough for the intended use. Thank you.

[@Moonfleet41]

Firstly there's a reverse process the opposite to annealing, however with most jobs shaping aluminium the working process that required you to soften it, will re-harden it automatically... this is known as work hardening, perhaps have a read up on the process and it'll make sense!

[@gilomoto5148]

I’m doing a bit of aluminium fabrication this weekend excellent as always Delboy Cheers.

[@Moonfleet41]

Good news mate, glad we could help in some small way, have a great time and hope it goes well for you !

[@aslakneeraas5516]

Thank you very much helped me allot. Cheers from Norway:)

[@paulharast1958]

Thanks it's good to know... you and Penny have a good day bye safely and I hope you have a nice weather. Still kind of crappy in Chicago

[@hdrk59]

Paul Harast were having the same weather in Ontario Canada....it will warm soon .

[@Moonfleet41]

Paul Harast - Hi Paul, you are so right, it's everywhere, I think this winter is lingering on for all of us, but don't worry, bad weather is temporary, the sun always comes out sooner or later !

[@grahamreeve5209]

I've never heard of quenching aluminium before and have never had a problem with annealing it. I did wonder if there was confusion here with copper which you do quench?

[@BrettHoustonTube]

Thanks. Now how do you restore it to the full strength/hardness?

[@Moonfleet41]

You're doing this in the first place so you can "work" the metal.. and when you do, the metal will "Work Harden".. that's all it needs usually. !

[@BrettHoustonTube]

@@Moonfleet41 Ok thanks!

[@paulwhiteman3625]

Yeah, nice one, fella! Nice and simple!! Great job.

[@OneofMyTurns]

How do you harden aluminum after you heated it up to bend it?

[@kevinharhat2687]

Nice little simple skills lesson thanks del & penny👍

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Kevin, good to hear from you buddy... thanks for watching. Keep in touch aye. always look forward to your messages..

[@rsbharley4766]

Great little simple skill Del. Penny and you have a great week. Cheers

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks buddy - you too! D&Px

[@olisstuff4773]

Hi to you both. Now that the aluminium bar is softer and that I can bend it, how do you get it to become hard again? Would the softer aluminium bar be more or less brittle? Thanks for the know how videos. They really do help.

[@Moonfleet41]

Working and bending the metal once it has been annealed will re-harden it automatically... the process is called "work hardening" so no need to worry about it, try a few test pieces and you'll get the feel for it and the experience will give you some practice to help make the best result you can..

[@TomaszCzajka80]

Thanks for the tip! My question is how do you harden it back?

[@ratbike228]

work?

[@paulsven7923]

Viagra powder? ;)

[@nightster6378]

By work these guys are trying to say. Bash it with a mallet and a leather sand bag, or English wheel etc, not much reason in annealing the metal unless your going to form it into another shape.

[@nightster6378]

Hi Im sure you can see I was agreeing with you just explaining what people meant by working. It would amaze you people don't know. It was only a few months ago I was asked this very question by what does it mean by working it though it was copper we were talking about. Bring metal work back into the school classroom. Oh and bun making for the girls.

[@edgeeffect]

Bollocks to bun making, let the girls do metalwork too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3iWZIJ4f5d1hs0

[@stephenmitchell8324]

Hi Del Very good tip with the Candle

[@thatmand4542]

Hey guys i wanted to see if i could get an answer over this topic So theres aluminum radiators for jeep TJ's and no matter what brand i.e Griffin,Mishimoto ect. they ALL crack and i was wondering if i could anneal one to make the aluminum soft to account for any body flex since jeeps do alot if you offroad them and i was thinking of getting a aluminum rad. and annealing it to prevent any possible cracks ? People say to get a brass radiator since its soft but i dont see any so i was thinking of annealing an aluminum one and be done :D

[@Moonfleet41]

How about just rubber mounting it sufficiently to isolate it from vibration in the first place..!

[@thatmand4542]

@@Moonfleet41 i was thinking the same ! Matter a fact i got got thick 1/8" rubber washers from ace hardware that im gonna double stack :D Ill probably go thicker once i get an aluminum radiator to allow it to flex if needed !

[@davetarleton8030]

do you put soot on both sides of the aluminum, and heat up each side or just the one side?

[@TheFishingStyle_FishingChannel]

Thank you 🙏👍

[@Moonfleet41]

Welcome 👍

[@garya3056]

Cool tip re the candle soot, Dell. Who knew? Good stuff. On a related metals subject, my brother in law sent me a video of a guy removing a dent in his car fender utilizing a hair dryer and then cold compressed air to pop it out. Bizarrely, it popped out. Ever tried it?

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Gary, I've seen that myself, but never tried it, there are some seriously cool tricks you can do, one that worked for me some years ago, was the half a tennis ball to pop a door lock open on a car (only works on older cars!), you pop the half tennis ball over the key hole slot on the door to get a good seal and then punch it, sudden increases in air pressure goes in the slot and pops the lock button up... I can see why manufacturers designed that out of modern cars lol

[@garya3056]

Moonfleet41 that’s crazy!

[@acevedeyt9551]

thank you, you explained this way better than my teacher

[@robertodix2435]

Hello Del thank ‘ s for this interesting vidéo. I have a question : i want to build my own windshield in aluminium should i use this process. Thank ´s so much for your time.

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Marc, depending on how you intend to curve it, you won't need to anneal aluminium and go for, maybe, 1mm thick which is plenty, and you can bend it by hand, if you're going to roll it in an English Wheel and sandbag, then once again, you don't need to anneal it.

[@robertodix2435]

Delboy's Garage thank ´so much for the tip Del

[@andrewdevereux5513]

will powdercoating aluminium wheels cause annealing of the aluminium?. i have done a little bit of research and found the temperature needed for annealing aluminium is very very close to the baking temperature of powdercoat baking

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Andrew, that's an interesting thought, but I imagine through sheer obvious practice of wheels being powder coated every day that it doens't cause any problems, otherwise it wouldn't work, and whilst I've not tested it myself, I don't know what the difference in results would be between heating a wheel in a baking oven environment for hours and letting it cool slowly in relation to annealing, which is where the alloy is heated quickly and then suddenly quenched... so who knows, but once again, I imagine it doesn't cause any harm during powder coating otherwise we'd soon know about it, wouldn't we lol !

[@andydawson2070]

Great little tip, thanks for the lesson. I really look forward to seeing stuff like this. Cheers Dell, have a good day.

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks Andy, that's very kind of you, glad you enjoy!

[@missanna208802]

What about the toxicity? We were not allowed to work with aluminum in metals/jewelry class because of the toxic vapors when heating.

[@seanhunt3417]

Unreal video as always. Thanks I learnt a lot. Thanks

[@ddacombe4752]

thanks, best tip ive seen for this

[@JustTex]

Well i didn't know that. Everyday's a school day! Cheers.

[@MrAlmar07]

Nice one Del, another great vid!! This is a cool one for Archie & the 'teenager'.. R.S & Awrabest mate, Al.

[@Moonfleet41]

Ayup Dutch, good to hear from ya, this is cool stuff for the youngsters to learn aye? Say to 'the gang' from us, D&Px

[@MrAlmar07]

Moonfleet41 It is indeed bud. Beats devices hands down all day long!! Ha. Might give it a go with them during the week. Hope you had a good ride out?? Awrabest to you both. Al. X.

[@dunnkruger8825]

Nice Thanks

[@Moonfleet41]

Most welcome

[@DJCallitquits]

Great info!!!

[@timtam142812]

Hi mate..actually, you should let the ally cool slowly by just setting it aside to cool down by itself, you shouldn't quench it. That way it will anneal to an even more malleable state. Really, the only metal that you can heat and then instantly quench in order to anneal it, is copper....either quenching or a slow cool makes no difference with copper...on most other ferrous and non-ferrous metals, cooling rate has an effect...whether it be marginal or major! Just try it without quenching the ally, you'll notice the difference! Great vids mate, love your work :)

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks buddy, appreciate the insight !

[@kslinthesand]

Thanks.. saved me asking the question. @Moonfleet41, thanks for putting up the video

[@christophershirley1303]

(P) Hey Del. Once you have annealed your steel or aluminium... and you have shaped it as you heart desires.... How do you then "un-anneal"??? it so it regains its original strength?

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi buddy, the very process of shaping the metal in to your desired shape or 'working it' will serve to harden it pretty efficiently, so as you finish the job, you'll notice the metal itself is no longer as soft as when you annealed it... and there's always the 'tap' test, it rings when it's harden and thuds when it's soft...!

[@vincesmith4275]

I'd like to know that also.

[@desolder75]

If you’re still wondering four years later… You can re-harden 6000 or 7000 series aluminum by heating it to 400F (200C) for two hours. This will bring it up to T6 temper. Most aluminum extrusion stock like that shown in the video is 6000 series aluminum.

[@squareyes1981]

My profile pic is me with a Royal Enfield... in Nepal!! So gimme my shirt back, Del! I'm going there again in July where I'll be taking in some more RE riding!

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi buddy, t-shirt was a gift from my brother who lives in Australia, he goes there regularly to do relief work as he's a senior Paramedic and helps them with setting up health care services and other things... he had it embroidered for me when he was last there, it's a very special gift and means a lot to me !

[@edgeeffect]

Not really into the motorbike stuff... but great metalworking tips to be had there... fanks. ... now let's go an' see what you had to say about annealing steel... that's what I'm really after.

[@jasonthurston799]

How to reverse it?

[@Gus-cg9yp]

Hi Del, interesting trick, thanks. My bike is nearly back on the road, delayed as workshop was to cold during this week an i had enough cold at work ( golf greenkeeper) ,thanks for the video. Gus

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Gus, that's a cool job, I bet it's more fun in the summer than it is right now?? Thanks for watching, and good luck with your bike...

[@ericsimpson1176]

I am in the aviation aluminum shaping business black soot or anything else like it is not correct. The correct temp for 3003h4 is 775f, 5052h14 is 650F, 6061t3 and t4 775F...2024 has limitations and is not recommended for annealing..dont use soot, soap ,pine wood...use a temperature crayon or a electric most the time I use a TempilEstick,,,the crayon and Estick are available from Tempi...that is correct about not using a point and shoot type because of the reflection

[@mossc26]

I also used SOAP back in my school days,1964's.Wait for it to turn brown.

[@Moonfleet41]

Thanks Colin, the soap trick works great (or coloured wax crayons), but they're a bugger to get off once they are burned on, but many ways to carve the cake aye ?!

[@michaelwilliams3861]

(P) Nice little tip Del, have a good Sunday.

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Michael, good to hear from you, did you get the message I sent you on Patreon buddy??

[@michaelwilliams3861]

Moonfleet41 I can’t see it mate

[@Johny40Se7en]

Hahahaaa you really should do more videos like this and then they should show it in schools, colleges and Universities, you make science and all those old school methods sounds so cool and as always, very simply put. When you drop each piece and it's making a noise, that's so weird, the un annealed piece really does sound like it's harder because of the deeper / lower sound it gives off. They do video conferencing and stuff in places of education these days, you could be an at home teacher ; )

[@Moonfleet41]

Wouldn't that be cool aye... just sharing some basic commonly known methods.. maybe it'll help someone doing a fabrication project..

[@balisticsquirel]

I want to say that you don't actually have to quench it. But i don't know that categorically and for sure. I could ask something like whether anybody knows the metallurgical mechanism by which quenching has the effect. But as we know, on the internet it's better to state something incorrect and watch the replies. So "No you don't have to quench aluminium." :)

[@Moonfleet41]

Ive tried both ways, and it seems to make little difference, other than it's convenient to be able to pick up and work with the metal rather than waiting 15 minutes for it to go cold..!!!

[@loddude5706]

And next week - for our Derbyshire viewers, annealing sheep . . . ('It wasn't me . . . a big boy did it & ran away.' : ) x

[@andrewdixon7143]

When I was at school we use to use soap on the ally then heated it till it went brown. Any body heard of that or is my memory failing??

[@Moonfleet41]

Hi Andrew, no that's quite right, you can use soap or coloured wax crayons, but it's a total bugger to get off once you burn it to black, but where as the soot disappears, there's no clean up afterwards !

[@dataluskazan4006]

Ausen Thank you

[@russellhuntersyoutubecolle7777]

So you dont need the temperature of an oxy acetylene torch to burn off the soot. That saves me money and space. Cheers!

[@britfin007]

Looks like the pencil rubber idea works eh?

[@Moonfleet41]

Yep, does indeed buddy.

[@bobgwinn5091]

cool

[@ArlowFarrell]

So you just let it sit for 24 hours to get it to harden back to normal I guess?

[@Moonfleet41]

Working the metal (which is why you annealed it in the first place) will harden it again naturally, and yes, even if left in normal temperature for a day or two, it will normalise.

[@mpr106]

If memory serves, back in school we were taught to rub soap on the piece, and when the soap turns black you’re at the right temp!

[@MattSaysSmile]

👍

[@tinks43]

(P) Top tip 👍🏻

[@lewisbaldwin3696]

Another wrinkle for the brain. Thanks.