Deleting My Indie Game and Starting Over - Nectar Devlog 16

To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/... . You’ll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription.
In this video I abandon the Nectar and start over from scratch.
This video was sponsored by Brilliant
Music by Madison James Smith
[e-mail]
/ @madisonjamessmithmusi...
Steam Page: store.steampow...
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / chrisfyee
#indiegame #unrealengine #gamedev

[@nerdchomp]

To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/NerdChomp . You’ll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription.

[@GaryDoesThings]

I appreciate your devlogs. They are considered but concise. A common recommendation when handling plugins or content packs is to create a separate empty project to which you add plugins. Then you use the migrate functionality to port over only what you need to your actual project. In addition to working on levels, I would suggest "finishing" the game, from main menu to credit roll, in as many aspects as possible. Obviously I mean more as a draft than a release product. But the point is that you can get a view of what the *complete* experience is and begin to iterate on it. Keeps your perspective wide, makes it better to share for playtests, and quickly highlights the need for systems you might otherwise put off too long.

[@nerdchomp]

That's a good approach and probably what I'll do. Create basically a skeleton of the game so I have a better idea of the scope

[@LighthoofDryden]

Mastering your mechanics before truly starting level/world design is so key!! Levels are fundamentally made of mechanics after all. Also the new sunflower model looks perfect!!

[@nerdchomp]

I think I'm ready to drive into levels now, which I'm excited and a little overwhelmed by

[@MrKyleA]

I agree, you create mechanics and they become tools to create levels. How are you suppose to build a house without your tools?

[@Oreowich]

oh woah. why am i finding you everywhere dryden?!?!? im scared now

[@LighthoofDryden]

@@Oreowich cuz I gotta keep up with my dev friends!!

[@nerdchomp]

I have a friend? 😮

[@Jdfskitz]

has it only been a year and a half? Man you've accomplished A LOT to have done as much as you have. Never making an unreal project before and doing all of this?! thats crazy!

[@Jdfskitz]

on another note, remember you can color code your folders!

[@nerdchomp]

Ahhh I didn't even know that!

[@Jdfskitz]

@@nerdchomp the more you know haha

[@sir.spliffalot_mobile4968]

Ngl, i got basically no coding experience at all and i still didn't think for even a second that re-doing all your work was a bad idea in any way. Starting over after having learnt how things work and being unhappy with my first outcome usually was very successful for me, for the exact reasons you mentioned btw, so i'm convinced having restarted the project will do alot for the finished game. I'd say your resarting is more akin to cleaning up the trash than wasting time.

[@nerdchomp]

Exactly, the end product will hopefully be better because of it

[@perssontm1628]

Restarting when you're a beginner is different from restarting while already having experience, you're always gonna learn new stuff, and thus always gonna feel the need to restart. This is why you prototype your game first, then start a new project, and you don't give up. Otherwise you're never gonna release the game. In this case I think it's fine, but generally, too many people get caught in the trap of "If I start over I can do this so much better" and end up never releasing the game.

[@simulacrumgames]

@@perssontm1628 Agreed, as long as you limit the number of times you do this and get big benefits from it without changing the scope/direction of the game, you're much more likely to be justified in refactoring.

[@sinnombre973]

i get you. im a writer, and the delete everything and started again hashappened to me a few times, and is never an easy option. you are actually very brave, you need to hae guts to be able to stop and think "ok, this proyect is not going the way i wanted it to go. it's not like it's bad, but i doesn't satisface me" and start all over again. but sometime i can tell to you, it's almost never a bad desicion, and even if it is, it's called learning, and it would help you to learn a lot. i was writing this story, it had 25000 words (between 50-70 pages of a book) and i write it every day and publish it, but then, while reading it again, i noticed it wasnt exactly what i wanted it to be, so i decided to redo it all again. i lost a few readers for that, cuz i lasted a whole month, writing every single day, but no, when i read it, i feel content, cuz finally is what i wanted to be. now it have 45000, i know that if i hadn't rewrite it again, i couldnt have it to be this long.

[@Mijdax]

good organisation is the first and most important thing in game dev

[@panampace]

I’ve “started from scratch” on my game probably a dozen times, but each time I learned valuable skills that made setting everything back up take only a day or two, and each time is cleaner and more optimized.

[@slugmanestudios768]

I had to restart my project as well and it took like 2 weeks to get back to where 1 year of dev got me. having all the animations, models and knowing the correct patterns and data structures makes it so much faster

[@peeledbanana311]

That dandelion flying mechanic making use of the originally harmful bite of the flytrap is awesome.

[@silchasruin4487]

Experimenting and learning is way more beneficial and helpful in the long run. I always create a separate project to mess around with and experiment mechanics and build demos. Restructuring your files and folders is future self care. You'll thank yourself. Another thing, your approach to modularity is another way to speed up prototyping so much. Now I would imagine that you would actually need to get around to building levels and puzzles. Your game has the great opportunity to allow the players actions to make the levels, as they progress, more beautiful. As if you were growing a garden as you moved the levels

[@gauravs9875]

Wow! Well Done it takes a lot of courage to start from scratch

[@geereal-indalo]

Indeed! It's a brilliant idea though, it will pay off ten fold in the long run. Good job Chris! ♥

[@Domex122]

the biggest problem with tick is if you build your game on 60 ticks like the Fallout games if you play the game at higher FPS your game runs faster so using a timer is the best change you could have made

[@nerdchomp]

Good point, I didn't even think of that

[@sky01james28]

Not sure how unreal handles it, but in game engines I’ve seen two separate “tick” methods, one frame-based and the other fixed-time-based

[@simulacrumgames]

This is why the tick function in Unreal gives you a delta time value. You scale any values based off the time since the last tick to ensure consistent behavior.

[@eduardo_dito]

Nice work, I've been making my first game for about 8 months, first time using Unreal, doing something similar, experimenting, learning, trying different techniques, workflows... Now I'm focusing on 3d modeling and animation, once I made new ones I will also start over and keep everything tight and organized

[@Gorom101]

"A year and a half and he has nothing to show for it"? Is anyone saying that? Really? You have so much to show! You are running around this beautiful word showcasing different puzzle mechanics saying there is nothing to show? It looks amazing, and I have zero doubt the levels will be great.

[@aldanasjuan]

I've started from scratch 3 times. The 4th iteration feels right and I won't restart again. Learning programming patterns and making the project scalable is essential for non trivial, large scale games. Props for not being afraid of it.

[@shrippie-4214]

I like how you already redid the game lol I've started so many new projects and abandoning old ones I'm pretty fast at starting projects side note: I am sticking with projects now

[@bazyt1]

Good move. Sounds like a much-needed refactor. When a project is a total mess to work in it really hits your productivity and enjoyment.

[@nerdchomp]

Totally true

[@Fireboltdark]

Keep on it good sir! I am a doctor and know a thing or two about hardwork...it does and will pay off! My wishes and prayers with u!

[@gamedevas]

Looks clean! Love how alive your game looks! Just one thing to mention - perfect is the enemy of good. Don't get stuck 'reworking' things - work on a release :)

[@peeledbanana311]

You clearly know what you are doing, and I will play your game when it comes out.

[@davidneallambson9656]

One feature that would be cool is a big resin node that when hit by a rock that is launched breaks apart, I could see this as a way of making save points for it would allow people to go back to the resin node and pick up the normal size pieces and place them in ways to help progress faster if they fail.

[@caleighd.3198]

So proud of you for working so hard all the time. You're doing amazing!

[@nerdchomp]

Hi love u!

[@TheLostWorld-i8j]

I've been working on a project now for 5 years and restarted it in a new project twice to reformat/redo it all in a better, cleaner, more organized way. Large projects need to be clean, organized, and have structure, otherwise it will turn to chaos. And redoing it won't be like starting from square one as you can copy a lot of code and reformat it to be more organized. Or if you don't want to copy existing code, you'll at least have a solid idea of what needs to be done which will make re-creating it for the new project faster than when you initially created it.

[@nerdchomp]

Yeah I was hesitant to do it at first. I was afraid it would take just as long as the first time, but it was much faster

[@immyart]

Something you can do is actually filter by whats being used in any of your maps/levels(you can also do the opposite) That way you can see all the stuff you can safely delete :) This is located just to the right of the content browsers search bar I believe. Hope this helps!

[@nerdchomp]

Thanks that's definitely helpful!

[@Storypaintings]

Great video thanks for sharing! I just wanted to note that I do like the gradient the old flower model had from the center to the tip of the pedals. Keep it up!

[@nerdchomp]

There is a slight gradient on the new one too, but I might make it more pronounced. I agree it's pretty subtle right now

[@fruitfunfitness3584]

Coming from Unity, my first serious Unreal project got a bit messy. They make it hard to delete, rename and move the files about, even if you try to remove all the dependencies. Making simple 2D Games in Unity, I was thought to separate every type of asset into a different folder, i.e. sprites with sprites, animations with animations, materials with materials. In Unreal, I eventually decided that it was easier to keep all the models with their textures, materials, specific animations, animation blueprints, and maybe even the character blueprints together.

[@emilwalseth]

Can't wait to see how this evolves!

[@rexx4K_]

You should add a little circle/lock-on when close during the flower vine/rope thing

[@nerdchomp]

Yeah I may add some sort of cross hair when you're aiming it

[@ogfakii9187]

If you still haven’t thought of a name for the Pot character and his bee buddy, I might have one that could suit your fancy. Buzz the bumblebee and Sunny the Sunflower

[@akaithecreator7448]

The dupe at 4:06 was hillarious

[@Jouunaas]

you can also change tick time intervals

[@ootay4473]

Not the update I was expecting from my favorite rope-related KZbin Channel! (I haven't watched the video yet...) Finished watching the video- I like the new model for the sunflower! Good luck with project!

[@nerdchomp]

Unfortunately rope content just isn't as lucrative as I thought, as much as I love rope

[@NaifAlqahtani]

This is super exciting! Upload more!

[@nerdchomp]

I don't have a consistent upload schedule, but I like my videos to have enough substance to justify an upload. I also like to show different types of things. But I'll definitely be making videos as I get more into level design!

[@NaifAlqahtani]

@@nerdchomp keep it up champ 🔥

[@trinity0002]

Your audience is for game developers, in unreal engine users, coders. but trust me, I for one appreciate your rope video. keep striving, wish you luck.

[@nerdchomp]

This will always be a rope channel at heart

[@EdroZz]

1 year and a half? You have made a lot and im glad i followed trough everything

[@nerdchomp]

I thought I was going slow for a year and a half, but people seem to be saying the opposite, which is quite encouraging 🙂

[@TUKMAK]

Been watching you since your first couple videos brother. You've made a shit ton of progress. I can't wait to see more

[@mastersteamer3697]

Good luck man, this game looks like it has a lot of potential. Loved you vid, but I have some feedback for your game: In my opinion, it would look a little better with more dept e.g. instead pf the eyes on the character being flat, they could be 3d. or the edges of the lily pads being less even and more rough. I gotta say tho, I love the amber things, and the new sunflower model

[@dobrx6199]

Respect the grind 💪

[@dmangamesSTUDIO]

I would suggest trying to migrate a level that has all the things you want, for example your rope actor, to a new blank project. This way can save you time if you just wanted to cut out bloat like megascans and plugins that you weren't using.

[@dmangamesSTUDIO]

lol nvm you already did it

[@nerdchomp]

😂

[@Grinning-globe]

Just found this I really like the style of the game I hope I goes well

[@myk3l9675]

What I do is have a throw away project with thr big packs imported and i just copy over the few pieces i need. That way im not importing a while pack for one piece into my actual project.

[@nerdchomp]

That's a good idea

[@NotQuartz]

The fact that you haven’t made a single level is worrying me. I’m also making my own 3D puzzle platformer, and as it turns out it definitely helps to have some levels made before making most of the code/polish for the game. Even if making a level is just placing things in the world, it’s surprisingly harder than it might initially seem to be

[@nerdchomp]

In a way, I somewhat agree with you. I could've started levels earlier, but there are definitely things I needed to have figured out before I could start at all. Now I think I have all of that figured out. I know level design is a difficult task. I don't expect it to be a breeze and I'm fully prepared for a long development cycle. I'm aware my mechanics might change after making levels, but I'm okay with that. This whole thing is an iterative process. I have a full time job, so I'm not relying on this to pay my bills. It's just a fun thing I do in my free time

[@PortlyPete]

how did you program the face on the flowerpot? it looks really good!

[@nerdchomp]

It's a separate plane in front of the model with an alpha mask. I swap out textures on it to change the expression of the face

[@kairu_b]

Nice decision! 🙌

[@ginfizz111]

The new sun flower looks great! Though, I feel the flower pot itself could look more appealing as it looks a bit plain at the moment. Are there any plans on reworking it too?

[@Shack263]

Loving this series and your hard work. How are you finding working with Unreal's graphics? I can see that the TAA is causing really bad ghosting (e.g. 3:20).

[@nerdchomp]

Is that what's causing that? I was going to look into it. It doesn't seem to be as big of an issue in my new project file, so maybe I accidentally checked a setting in the old one. I also changed from 5.3 to 5.4 so maybe some of the defaults are different. Good to know what's causing it though!

[@Shack263]

@@nerdchomp TAA ghosting depends on the technique used and the framerate. That scene may have been very heavy and lowered the frame rate, which means that fast moving objects move more between frames, and this revealing of previously covered stuff causes ghosting. Your new project may be more optimised, or you were in lighter scenes. As for technique, I don't know much about Unreal specifically but I read in the 5.4 patch notes that are different modes with different tradeoffs for performance, static fidelity and anti-ghosting. They also added a new mode which compromises between performance and anti-ghosting. Maybe they made this the new default?

[@entityself3104]

Never be afraid to trash code.

[@nerdchomp]

It's scary to do, but it had to be done

[@jesseyules]

Tip: Ignore any tutorial that builds off the Tick Event. ;)

[@Smokey-A]

7:38 You have it all wrong. High frequency timers should be avoided and are NOT a better alternative to tick. If you need more control over the tick you can enable and disable it on the fly and also change the interval. The engine is built to optimize for the tick with batching etc. With timers your adding extra over head the more you use them in this way. They are made to handle things that need to be done on a timer at a rate which wouldn't make sense on tick. Edit: You also mention that with timers and timelines you avoided tick completely. This is incorrect as timelines use the objects tick anyway but it is preferable to tick for things that need animating etc. Also as someone else mentioned, you can't use delta time with timers which is very important to maintain consistent behaviour across different frame rates

[@simulacrumgames]

Timers are also reliant on the game tick, so yeah "fast" timers (anything that runs at the frame rate or higher) are likely not worth it. Just like "Tick is bad" isn't really true, this isn't a case of "timers are bad" either. Everything comes with nuance in how it should be applied. *IF* in all those instances of eliminating Event TIck usage he was able to replace it with timers that run much slower than the tick rate, then sure that's fine. There's many cases where some logic on the actor might need to be checked every so often, but another part of the actor needs to update at a different rate. So we would need to know more about what he is doing in the timelines and timers to understand what he should/should not be doing. Also, timelines are consistent across framerates and should be driven using values/curves inside them that are relative to the timeline's current position because of this.

[@nerdchomp]

Yep as @simulacrumgames says, I'm mostly just using timers at lower update frequencies. I'm using timelines in some places where I need things updated every frame, but I can pick and choose which timelines are running easier than I can with everything on event tick. Not sure if that's best practice or not, but it seems to be working out so far

[@Smokey-A]

@@nerdchomp yeah that's fine, just saw a few timers on a 0.01 frequency in the video. Those specifically should be moved to tick and then enabled and disabled as needed

[@nathace8639]

You can access delta time from the world object - so you can use timers with delta seconds

[@Smokey-A]

​@@nathace8639You can access it yes but using it like that would be ineffective. I'm too tired to explain why but if research how it works and the point of using it you'll understand

[@ozu7779]

maybe u can learn c++ for unreal engine and i think it's must be very usefull for any scenario

[@VaunaKiller]

Since you have changed mostly the code side of thins, you might as well call it "complete refactoring" or "rewrite". IMO that would be a closer to reality, and is better for the perception from other people. Might not matter at all when working solo, but, when doing team projects, saying "guys, we need to refactor / rewrite our thing" instead of "lets start from scratch" will make a vastly different effect )

[@nerdchomp]

Yeah refactor would be the more appropriate term to use, but non-programmers in my audience wouldn't know what that means, so I decided not to call it that

[@VaunaKiller]

@@nerdchomp welp, it could be an oppurtunity to extend audience's lingo :) but yeah, I guess that makes sense. But that "rewrite" is still an option ;)

[@EiDontNow]

How big is the file size after the recode?

[@nerdchomp]

Right now the UE file is like 4 gigs

[@Voidh1YT-yj7po]

hey im a small dev that works in unity and my project "Starjump" got up to 35GB and then i restarted three times bc of netcoding

[@nerdchomp]

Yeah the size can really sneak up on you. I'm super conscious of the size of my project now

[@radamesvalentin]

You should check out Godot. I love it.

[@nerdchomp]

I've been curious about godot. Whenever start a new project I'll play around with it

[@kevinbittner5069]

Very cool concept! Is it possible to get a hold of you via discord?

[@shawneebushatz1963]

I have a question about the main character, is he a robot or a sentient flower pot? Because i think it'd be neat if he was a robot since technically the player is both the flower pot and the bee it's literally tech and nature working together

[@nerdchomp]

You may or may not have guessed a plot point in the game......can not confirm lol

[@Tbjbu2]

cool

[@TheSunriseGames]

finally

[@LegendaryNuggets]

Ermmmm, technically, you didn't start from scratch 🤓

[@nerdchomp]

Does anyone ever really start from scratch though? 🤯

[@andikasujanadi]

(again)

[@trollgasm]

Since you're looking into putting some levels together now look into the concept of "blocking out" the level. Seeing how you approached stuff before, this should be a valuable test of your patience and planning if you can start blocking out levels. And lastly be aware to that if you're gonna be making it separate levels loaded you're gonna have to start looking into the game instance and learning more about that for carrying data over between levels. Keep up the good work! Can't wait to see it all come together!

[@nerdchomp]

Thanks for the tips! I've watched lots of videos about blocking out levels and that's the plan. I've also started looking into level streaming. I plan on having movement from level to level be seamless, but I don't think world partition fits my needs. There will definitely be some experimentation

[@hsvfanjan17]

2:00 not sure what effect it's coming from but in a lot of situations you have this dark "shadow" somewhere in the picture. Here it's under the rope but this shadow seems to be lingering everywhere, kind of like bad TAA smudges if you know what I mean

[@simulacrumgames]

Yeah, that's Unreal for you

[@jb2760]

I just want to say as indie devs comparing our work and efficiency to AAA industries is setting yourself up for a bad time. They have a base foundation they have been working off of for years. Nintendo is a perfect example. Call of duty as well. Each game they make they aren’t starting from scratch they are simply modifying and expanding their current system. Indies gotta start from the ground up. Build your first game with all its flaws. Then continue making sequels until you feel you’re where you want to be. Then bam start a new game with all the systems you built.

[@Jesus228FBI]

7:10 you don't need to think about performance in your game yet. The game doesn't even exist, yet you are micro optimizing phantom issues

[@simulacrumgames]

Somewhat agree. Optimization should be a focus later or if it's a problem right now, but there's good reason to create architectural rules for yourself and keep a consistent code base.