Delve Saga and M+ Comp Predictions | The Bench Ep. 08

[@lindenir540]

47:10 "Bran was attacking MEEEEE!" is an insane quote, absolute all-timer, put that in compilations lmao

[@sdowncast8871]

i wish someone would give a link with a timestamp for that stream

[@SatchaDahmi]

I could listen to growl complain about brann for hours and hours. Premium content right there!

[@prod.bygygahurts304]

Him talking about getting merked by brann himself is hysterical. I myself have had brann throw me THROUGH the floor with the throw ability multiple times now lmao

[@sdowncast8871]

@@prod.bygygahurts304 yeah i got targeted by his white gryphon, throwing lightning bolts at me, and i was like "is this some fucking buff or wtf is happening"

[@blip72189]

“My Brann was attacking MEEE.” Top tier delivery on that one.

[@GonzytheMage]

Growl - The Man of the People speaking facts about heroic raids being a vibe

[@natmiguel47]

"Stop doing Delves!" - Growl. Best tip of the expansion.

[@Schteef242]

From the chief Delve correspondent, that is quite the endorsement. I'm convinced that getting chased out of delves by your Bran is also to simulate some M+ social dynamics.

[@Kmaitland89]

I'm really enjoying Delves. I'm mainly a solo player and I've been having a ton of fun.

[@TheLeroy125]

preach about the heal spamming growl. I have had that happen so many times with 2 caster mobs that they just chain cast their spell on to you, brann does no damage and can seemingly never get any aggro on them, so you're just standing there hitting all your defensives and cooldowns while spamming your fastest heal, in the hopes that somehow you can live the 5 minutes it will take brann to kill them. Just peak content, super difficult, super engaging.

[@gustavo7074]

This growl rant is the best wow content of this year LMFAAAAO

[@brycesmith1367]

Genius timing for this episode release time. Great idea to have it release during maintenance.

[@jbarlak]

We knew it was about to be released

[@baodagu]

Squishei’s response to the imposter syndrome question is SOOOOOOOO good and underrated. The type of people that struggle with imposter syndrome are also the type of people that are very likely to project issues onto themselves, so pointing out that “Hey, it might actually be that you’re dealing with a toxic environment that is screwing with your self-confidence rather than that you have some deep-seated issue with imposter syndrome” is SUPER valuable. For a lot of people it may really be imposter syndrome, but the sub-set that are in bad environments absolutely needed to hear that

[@mrreligious92]

Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time and answering my question!

[@gerrievl]

I enjoy having growl in a podcast and i believe dorki is in one now too with dratnos. I love their perspectives. I just wish they confirmed their gunna do MDI this season😊

[@RhynocerousRex]

Oh hey, my question was the one thats answered Thanks

[@nickstilwell760]

Thank you for making a podcast playlist on YT so we can listen on mobile. ❤

[@Tsumetaiyoru]

Poor holy paladin is always getting the spot light and then summarily executed immediately after.

[@thomasshepard7891]

You lost me after the first 3 words

[@ivanleonov4579]

literally none of the things youve said are true

[@bub64882]

Really? Venthyr Holy Pal not ringing a bell for you guys? It's usually their damage though, not their anemic healing that gets them nerfed.

[@Владимир-я1з5ш]

Yet another great episode, thanks guys.

[@Akeelian]

The Growl delve rant ICANT

[@Unknowiii]

I did 50 delves before the season came out, only gotten maps on Bountiful versions. When people began to say you had to push your alt first, I didnt believe it because it didn't match my experience at all. So I went on wowhead and typed delver's bounty and guess what, it showed as a drop from bountiful delves only. Like how did people even spread this amount of misinformation when all the information was already available is beyond me.

[@amethonys2798]

Depends on the definition of "bountiful delve". I've 100% gotten maps from delves that were only "technically" bountiful. Last Wednesday(?) I simply ran the same bountiful delve like 6 times to get the vault out of the way to move on to another character. The delve was only "bountiful" for me the first time (as it loses that status after completing) yet I got 2 maps from the remaining 5 or so.

[@CatDad312]

They wouldn’t have to buff Healers dps if they just fix Brann’s AI and give him respectable damage scaling

[@vurruckt]

I like how Disc/Holy Priest don't have a kick so they can just die to a cast that they can do nothing about

[@wiskeeamazingdancer4964]

mind control? fear?

[@popojaga7312]

​@@wiskeeamazingdancer4964 those dont have much value now, as mob instantly will recast their ability

[@싸넬동지-7성담배]

LoS ?

[@steiige]

@@싸넬동지-7성담배 some of the webcasters ignore los with web bolt

[@싸넬동지-7성담배]

@@steiige kite

[@philipdennison1010]

Delves as a healer solo has been a pretty horrible experience for me. I always get a friend now if i am doing any because i just heal myself constantly and hope for the best

[@Gmee_]

the enh shaman Doctor's Ancestry is a damage nerf, not a resource one. The resource generation is static, no matter how many wolves you have. Each wolf is a multiplier to dmg tho, so having less will mean less damage, maybe even potentially dropping Elemental Blast because we just cast it when we have cold or fire wolves up.

[@Hubris21]

Side objective: a mini-boss that is off to the side. It lasts AT MOST 1:30 and is mechanical hell but if you kill it and still time the key, you get an extra piece of loot

[@bnightm]

If Delves need to have a distinct identity, be a separate pillar of content, then they can't have forming a group be the optimal way to clear it, otherwise it's just a second dungeon pillar.

[@wind_tempos]

please monetize this podcast y’all are the goats

[@P4RT1shiNy]

If I had one Dollar for every podcast I listen where one of the hosts has a drawn cat profile picture I had two dollars. It is not much but it is weird that it happend twice.

[@balazsscheier5901]

I feel like that raid only question was missunderstood. Splits and delves got brougth up instantly. Yes, you can clear mythic raid without doing splits or delves at all. But that wasn't what the question was about. It was about not doing keys at all. And the ilvl difference is definitely not minor but rather large in short/mid term. So let's start with the obvious. You can farm full heroic track loot that can already net you more than 10 ilvl difference. This has a lot smaller effect with heroic week being a thing obviously. But even now 613 ilvl loot is nothing to scoff at especially if you play in a lower end guild who don't do splits/can't clear too deep into heroic. But there's another pretty relevant thing that people like to overlook. And those are crests. You don't have a way to cap mythic crests without doing keys. The 30 crests they added to the last 2 heroic bosses will definitely help. But even then you need to push pretty deep into the mythic raid to reach your weekly cap. Not being able to cap out crests will bleed you even more ilvl. Then there's is the last one that is less relevant for hof level raiders. But the lower you go the more time you spend extending the raid. Your only source of gear is m+ vault. So with these in mind I definitely the "probably doesn't increase your ilvl a lot" line is not true. But let's get to the consequence of going raid only. You aren't getting benched. You are getting booted from your guild. Players slacking (doing only a smaller amount) on keys is one of the easier ways to get kicked. And being in a guild is kind of necessary for clearing mythic raid (there are decent coordinated mythic pug communities who clear the majority of the raid btw). You are definitely not killing the bosses arround the same time. As no selfrespecing raider will be fine carrying your -15 ilvl character through the raid. Well there's a way they will do that and it's called boosting. I want to compare this to ring enchants. While ring enchants are usefult they are relatively minor. You could remove your whole raids ring enchants you'd kill the boss about the same time as with enchants on. Yet if you were to join a guild raid without having your rings enchanted you'd get notified pretty fast. And if you refuse to enchant it you could find yourself guildless pretty fast. It's not fair that every other member of the raid had their rings enchanted but you refuse to do it. I agree that it sucks having to raid high level in order to push bleeding edge keys and blizzard should work on it to make it more pleasant. This being said in my opinion the raid only play style is in much more dire need of help (Partly because it's not a thing currently). I fail to see how farming keys having a reasonable difficulty makes it okay that you need to spend a large chunk of your time doing content you do not enjoy doing. Thorgast was easy content that you could do in decently fast. But the community hated it and the game become better for the endgame without it. Just because I will be able to finish the keys it doesn't make them less of a chore. Lastly as people like to compare stuff let's compare a bit. People like to say how you are required to raid in order to push keys. But when you look at the leaderboards you will find players who didn't even cleared the mythic raid on that character (they are often alts of players who do raid but we are strictly talking about gear here). Whereas you will have a hard time looking at the raid ranking leaderboard to find players who didn't do keys. In my opinion you should be able to do both. The constant war that exists between the sides is just stupid.

[@kampa7671]

Once m+ system released, I do more dungeons in a single expansion than I did in the previous (5?) combined. Which is cool if that's the content you want, but I vastly prefer raiding. Unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible to do that and still remain in a decent mythic guild. It used to just be gear, then it became 3 extra vault slots (with top quality gear), then it was crafting (no longer BiS, but still very powerful) and now it's crests. They kinda shoved this question aside with "you only need to spam m+ for first week/month" - thing is, you didn't "have to" do anything of that in the past. It's good that there's a new progression path for people not interested in raids. It's bad that it's also "required" for raiders - unless you do absurd amount of splits. And if you don't have enough time to push those dungeons early on, your progression will suffer a lot.

[@trench6118]

I did some PVP for the 9 sparks and ended up collecting a full honor gear set and will have the conquest weapon this week - it is actually not as annoying as I thought to maintain multiple gear sets and it is kind of fun to gear up. I personally would not mind M+ to follow a similar system. - Gear from dungeons would scale up in dungeons, gear from raid would scale up in raid, gear from PVP would scale up in PVP, gear from delves would scale up in open world/delves

[@coleragsdale4827]

Only issue I could see would be too many currencies

[@trench6118]

@@coleragsdale4827 perhaps more generic currencies? there are already too many as it is haha. it doesn't seem so bad to be able to earn currency doing M+ that you could use to upgrade raid gear even if the gear sets were different. or an exchange system so you could convert conquest to crests etc.

[@coleragsdale4827]

@trench6118 but then you have to ask yourself. Would Blizzard do that? Maybe. But yeah as is with M+ giving crests needed for both would still be good

[@oLycan]

Realizing that that Ret paladin they were showing on ansurek when talking about it had Vegeta go Super Saiyan when he popped wings and the orbs were his Holy Power tracking changed my life

[@_Travey]

Loving the tier 8 delves before and after the “changes”. Haven’t failed one yet. Same with my gf who’s only been playing wow for about 8 days. And I thought I would hate delves.

[@zuralani1]

I think it's really funny that in the tuning post pretty much everything is getting numbers tuning, then DH's version of tuning is fixing 3 of our eye beam bugs lol (we have at least 2 more with eye beam)

[@CeilingPanda]

The actual solution to delves is simple: Make every damage instance avoidable, like in plunderstorm. EDIT: But having delves be a 10 minute soloable dungeon as was stated, has not been achieved, loot pinata or not.

[@amethonys2798]

The whole delve auto attack thing is so true. Solo'ing as DEvoker is miserable since you pretty much just have to wait for Hover charges every pull to perma kite the one single elite since he smacks you for like 1/4 your health at IL 600. Also, you can't even use Deep Breath on packs to try to just burst them down since the second you fly over the pack you actually just get 100-0'ed by 3 synced autos.

[@Mitss_ORLY]

The number of awkward long silences in the bench podcasts is crazy

[@Septemberl4d]

13:00 its the same issue every time for pally. The fact we have to be on conc or we are dead meat is why a lot of the time they die the most in raid or in dungeon. With so much movement in a lot of these fights if you slip up at the worst time and don't place it down you are basically one of the softest tanks. A lot of their cd's are also rather large and i think unless you hardcore main pally its easy for people to mess up with prot pally. Still an amazing tank for this expac so far though, the interrupts needed for most these dungeons they will be god for comps with low interrupts.

[@DRKAugumon]

To Growlz point, I think if you join a PUG and your group actually has a route that they understand, you're definetly in the tryhard %. So many low-level PUGs are people who just sort of run it and figure it out, they dont think about the route or what to pull vs what not to pull, they just send it. They maybe copy what someone else has told them, but they have *NO* understanding of what to do why, they just do what they see.

[@andrewmiller5690]

The holy Paladin nerf was based on parses using Light of the Martyr and Bestow Light, which are net negative thanks to the absorb that those talents put on the Paladin, but the absorb is not captured and attributed to holy Paladin healing logs. Holy was robbed.

[@Waterloggedgaming]

Imposter syndrome follows us from the real world straight into anything we try to do. It never goes completely away but you can always remind yourself where you've been, and of all the things you've already conquered. Reach out and comment on the good in those around yourself and you may also see it within. Also what Growl said, "Deal with it.. maybe alcohol ^.^"

[@dionysues7449]

I’m always going to try to make Prot Paladin work, but man this xpac I can really feel the difference between my warrior, DK, and Paladin. Hopium for the anniversary patch to help us.

[@JimSmith-g2d]

Shout out to Jay, the best check out person we have ever seen. S tier if you will.

[@싸넬동지-7성담배]

Actually i thought about making Delves harder, maybe even some kind of Delve+ system I really loved the fact that i had to be afraid of the next packs i was pulling, using CC's, CD's, LoS, Kiting ! I did everything solo'd the first day as Priest Disc Oracle. I immensely loved it even the "WTF moment where i got one/two shot" because i taught me i had to find another way to kill the mob(s). PS : isn't it what Torghast was suppose to be ? Infinite scaling as solo or group then Blizzard got cold feet and scrapped the idea

[@OneBillionHorses]

Wait, why is Growl casually hanging out in front of Stockholm City Hall?

[@Ferdawoon]

I was thinking the same thing! Had to look up an image of "Stockholm Stadshus" just to see that I had not got things confused and yeh, he's in Stockholm alright!

[@garneet]

thats where the geoguessr world cup was

[@stormstudioet]

The healing hpal is doing on logs is padded by a healing loss talent that isn't taken into account yet on WCL. The nerf is 100% not deserved.

[@myersmayhem2023]

Timegating was a great thing People being unable to pull back is a them problem imo I was able to use the time to lvl a few chars get them geared but not overlyso do most of the sidequests get my keys on all my chars do a bunch of delves and then some m0's to dip my toes in for next week If it was just m+ the same week as heroic I feel like it would have just pushed people further apart

[@ericwren1131]

As a BM hunter doing delves solo has been one of the best times I have had in WoW in a long time. The content is hard and it feels good to complete. I am not looking forward to them being nerfed to the ground.

[@cloud132456]

I mean, I'd hope you'd have a good time in them considering you can MD to Brann, feign death everything off of you, have a pet tank it all for you and stand at range and barely deal with mobs.

[@MrPbhuh]

14:30, no ret didn't sandbag, they had bugfixes that fixed herald, before they played templar.

[@Darkmagi92]

In regards to dps for keys, don’t count Sin rogue out. Blanket silence on packs with Iron Wire is nothing to scoff at, and we do good damage

[@Rockforce80]

Yeah I think the renown level thing for ban selection was true. In remix they did something similar when the frog farmer thing happened. They said they were only rolling back frog farmers, but they hit hundreds if not thousands of people who were just avidly playing the game. They made up some shit about carefully reviewing the data so only froggers got hit but it was cap. So Vesper could potentially be telling the truth here without knowing the specifics

[@pariasdark]

I think the trick with delves is they need to be class and spec agnostic. If they just made the mobs fight more like mobs in plunderstorm it would be easier to make it difficult but doable for anyone and any spec.

[@Kmaitland89]

Man, I really like Delves. Like really like them. Do they need some more refining? 1000%. That being said, I think Growl was wrong. I've been doing them solo and I enjoy the challenge.

[@carteks1]

Growl major W on calling out delves being complete garbage.

[@Kmaitland89]

I disagree.

[@carteks1]

@@Kmaitland89 I’m happy for you if you’re happy. And I’m happy for everyone that is enjoying delves. My opinion stands as my opinion. Delves are completely and utter trash.

[@bobbilling1075]

This tangent about brann was fucking hysterical. He fucking did that to me the morning of this video and I lost my fucking shit 😂

[@relhaz4326]

+2 dawnbreaker. only like 3 deaths. One of which being me as I fell through the boat. Very cool

[@Septemberl4d]

1:41:00 Most people went right. I forced a lot to go right also as a healer. I am not going to just wish to the RNG gods that my team is good enough to never wipe because 9/10 pugs will have a wipe or have one person release so i rather have the skip which reduces the run back SIGNIFICANTLY open for people to use. Every time i had a tank go left i just left at one point. Because i knew the tank was going to be toxic and do some stupid pull that the comp we have isn't able to do because "with my M+ group we do it this way" well yeah ofc you do it that way you have the communication and time played with them to know when to spread out your stuns and which certain utility will be used. A pug group doesn't have that luxury.

[@glassofrubixs6196]

It sucked so much to miss the days that you could do the delves fairly easily, to come back from a trip and have them completely decimate me.

[@caldw]

There were 3 sets of nerfs that affect arcane going into effect today. It's still going to be a good spec, but we're looking at about a 6% nerf.

[@vincenthamel3420]

Delves difficulty is a tough subject because despite r/wow complaining about how hard it is... it's still easier than the alternative to get normal-track gear, and a small chance to get hero-track item is HUGE for people who struggle with AOTC or KSM. Gear-wise, delve should be harder than they are. But they are also aimed at a very casual audience... make delve 5 to 8 require a minimum of 3 people, maybe?

[@loganboyd10]

Not sure if it’s the same guild, but back in the day on Turalyon, was legendary. Is Squish their RL?

[@olaf5911]

caution offensive question!!! Most guide writers on pretty much every wow platform recommend the talent builds which do the highest dps for healers and tanks even though their dps doesn’t matter that much below the highest key. I think it would increase the success rate of keys more if guide writers would focus more on encouraging healer and tank to be as tanky as possible, to use their utility more and to prevent dmg instead of pumping dps. But what do you guys think about that? pumping dps can be fun but dying to a healing check or tank buster isn’t…

[@shmexygamer]

Just get good I suppose

[@olaf5911]

@@shmexygamer that answer makes no sense to the question i ask

[@Belugafishcat]

Thank you guys for a great ep!

[@deiske25952]

I've had absolutely zero issues with soloing delves as a dps and I'm currently on tier 9. Also the loot pinata thing is somewhat disingenuous because it's only like that because content creators preached for a month not to spend a single key and save them all for heroic week. So of course bountiful delves will feel like they are raining loot when you've got 20 keys to open chests with. I promise it won't feel that way in two weeks

[@tayloraustin1077]

I think that gear needs to be content specific. Just make the best gear for m+ come from m+, best gear for raid come from raid, best gear for pvp come from pvp, etc... I don't think there are really that many people who want to double dip end game content. Really everyone finds their niche in the end game and wants to play it and only it for a specific reason. The fact Blizzard hasn't done this, probably means they are worried Raid will die if they don't make it a requirement for end game m+.

[@TheFloydNation]

“Illusion of choice” pugged a NW +4 and the tank went straight. First boss, just splits the two gatekeepers and goes right to the boss. As expected, we never killed that boss…

[@MrZahir5387]

crazy idea, if youre bored and dont have anything to do instead of farming wax maybe go outside?

[@Obsolete386]

I have about 6 champion and 2 heroic pieces that i wouldn't have without delves. Yeah you don't have to focus them but i'm happy i did them

[@ronaldmedford6471]

double arcane or double enhance and double aug will be amazing, kinda sad that theyre running brew and not DH so they can get a mistweaver as a healer for buff and then they dont have to run a meh spec for dps.

[@thegamemattster]

Dawnlight was bugged which i think was a big issue to their insane HPS. The damage increase should help Summer a lot no??

[@baskthebask140]

Love you guys, but sometimes you really have no idea what happens to ppl under your skill level: people almost never went left in Halls of Infusion to get the buff in pugs, I tanked - ppl demanded to go right, I dpsed - all tanks went right. I am speaking about the keys around around and portal level. I am ready to die on this hill after doing a whole season of keys as a tank and another as a dps :D

[@Graham55382]

Same for me, never saw anyone go left in halls of infusion whole expansion.

[@Slightlyonline]

You are thinking about a different left right than they are. During s4 I've only gone right at the start, left after first boss for the whole season.

[@baskthebask140]

@@Slightlyonline yeah, thought this might be the case, but they were talking about getting either buff or shortcut, so I was convinced they were talking about the very first choice. You might be right tho, because right at the start and left after the 1st boss was the most common way.

[@HumbleJon]

I need a delve tierlist

[@Quiet_9]

Normal 3k io civilian. We always go right for the respawn below 14/24 because the odds of a pug wipe are so high. If someone goes left it's time to leave the key because they're just disillusioned tanks who "do it like the streamers do it."

[@Quiet_9]

Brann works for PottyC. He's been muffling his rifle with dino pillows taking shots at Growl when he thinks OBS isn't running.

[@wut2404]

There was more than one reputation exploit. Just because they didn't do one of them doesn't mean they didn't do the other(s).

[@thehandle711]

Trill is playing for Liquid so the second tank is probably Vengeance for them.

[@MustachioNut]

Our group always went right in HoI

[@deemac1588]

I want to stop doing delves but im worried i wont finish any +7s this week in which case i would need to do 2 to 4 tier 8 delves for my best vault reward.

[@lichmourne00]

Am I the only one that likes lvl 10-11 delves giving a palace of the dead feel. (Tank makes it stupid easy outside of the 13th delve)

[@dardamaniac6972]

dat buff on fury warriors bladestorm was epic yeah..

[@MDLFrank]

Me and my pugs NEVER went Left in Halls. I literally mean like... never out of 60+ runs

[@waves6743]

from 39:10 ish~ I can confirm I got a WUE tier token from heroic, transferred it to my rogue alt

[@D-rizzy31]

The vanity behind GS for M+ is fucking insane.

[@chickencereal9387]

You guys are getting maps? I ain’t got one since running 4 a day since Wednesday last week

[@davidholm4999]

You guys are getting maps? Did 4 every day on my main, plus 4 on 5 alts for vaults. 1 map. Total.

[@TheIncognitoGhost]

How about Delves not knowing how to ignore Warmode and healers not being able to target heal people?

[@kalasmournrex1470]

I’ve done 130 tier 8 delves across 3 characters and gotten a total of 4 bounties

[@themInterwebs]

Feedback: record the pod closer to its release. I was looking forward to a discussion around players exploiting multiple boss kills for WUE gear. Bc this was recorded so far in advance, it can’t be covered this episode and won’t be interesting next week.

[@Repsadge]

when he says enhance has the "Best damage profile in the game....Funnel" what does that mean exactly? What is a funnel damage profile?

[@steventarmann9463]

Frost mage is only simming 5% behind arcane pre-nerfs. It might shock you guys how close it is after the nerfs.

[@michaelb9683]

Delves are amazing, they just need to keep tinkering and tuning with it. I LOVE having something to do that can give decent gear on my own time, that isn't timed, and I don't need anyone but could have a friend or two with me. I am telling you delve are going to stay because the community can be toxic, and people don't want to wait/ or deal with the drama from group content. Best thing blizzard added since mythic plus. You can tell this is the case with PVP too. RBG and arena participation is going to be crap compared to solo shuffle and BG blitz which is popping off right now. Just to recap though, delves are NOT for the type of people who do mythic raid, .01 arena or what will be 20 keys mythic plus. It's not for you if you do those things for the most part. From this standpoint, the engagement metrics are going to be off the charts, and it will be a win for blizzard.

[@lostfluke]

The white board in the background. Nice.

[@TheAtomicDom]

I'm not a one percenter and I want hard delves to progress through

[@DavidLee-bw5dm]

Heroic week has been great.

[@Dasbeerboots]

Queen is boostable, though. Some Chinese guild boosted 5+ carries over 30 times last week. How? I have no idea.

[@xepher1s]

where's this rumor about pets being broken with aug coming from? that is not the case. the log bugs are well documented. you can sim aug perfectly fine as well, for nearly a year.

[@sorrowgamingx]

Did around 20ish t8s and got 0 maps will not be touching delves after the first week 🤷‍♂️

[@Anivia92]

I've spent every possible key you can get for delves and i haven't gotten one map....

[@Barkarn]

I had a thought that Growl sounds like Jordan B Peterson and now I can't unhear it

[@scrawbogen104]

It’d be great to never see Aug in m+ comps. Like, ever again for the rest of time

[@MashyAsura]

Recorded on Saturday releasing on Tuesday? This is already out of date? Come on guys ❤

[@travislamar5986]

Bench > Poddy

[@Alurin93]

"Feel incentivize" should really have been "Feel forced"

[@TooMuchTuna7]

I think you guys are taking over as best WoW podcast!

[@mdmsmdms]

guys, how about: vdh, rdruid, mage, shadowpriest and aug?