Demna's Divisive Vision for Balenciaga Haute Couture Unpacked | Live Panel Discussion

[@Random_Identity]

The only person to add real value was Deborah Milner. More of her and less of everyone else. Showstudio used to have really great and engaging panels. What happened?

[@runekristensen8877]

i guess it is unpaid work

[@sharmanitascos]

notice how this is the most liked comment

[@Viviano_Magami]

Deborah being cautious bc there's bootlicker fanboy there, he would believe and justify whatever gibberish demna said 😂

[@helohalo3106]

@@Viviano_Magamiright? His so pathetic. 0 intelligence and taste.

[@fabiofuoco]

Easter eggs should be that: an added unexpected bonus thing. If the garment looks dreadful, I don’t really care if it was magically hand stitched with unicorn hair, I feel like couture should adhere to a golden standard. And I say this as a demna stan.

[@ALB3R701]

Deborah is the only one that is making genuine critiques of this collection with NUANCE, a lot of this panel seems to be on the Balenciaga PR pay roll. If a designer does not have the skill to convey the value of their work no matter what atelier does the crafting it will still fall flat and that is what this collection has done. One can line a t shirt with gold it does not elevate it to anything more, Demnas stunts and shock jockey troll fashions have been played out for a very long time. No one is laughing anymore. The very clear attempt to create ire with the “can only be worn once” dress is so eye roll inducing, it’s not even pathetic anymore it’s just plainly mediocre.

[@richardmacleod5253]

I do genuinly think that Balenciaga have a strong fashion base and fans. The Couture collections this season looked a bit dated, a bit Ru Pauls Drag Race. Balenciaga dosent have to follow the pack and can do its own thing. They now their customer, their clients and they make a profit. Unlike Schiaparelli who were in debt last year of 7 Million Euros.

[@Viviano_Magami]

@@richardmacleod5253 yea, almost all people who praise Schiaparelli never buy anything from the brand

[@richardmacleod5253]

@@Viviano_Magami I was just thinking about Virgini Vardi at Chanel. Everybody was negative about her collections but the Chanel brand profits (when she took over) rose by 40%. They along with Dior were the only Couture houses that had a strong client base and made profit. Its easy to bitch a brand off, but it all comes down to money. Without money the brand dies.

[@Viviano_Magami]

@@richardmacleod5253 they still stuck with extravagant design/set like galliano and karl.. majority of people who luv galliano never buy anything bc only celebrity would wear that and they just like to see the fantasy of it.

[@arlevalin]

@@Viviano_Magami Because that is how they viewed couture. Just like how McQueen changed Givenchy Haute Couture, many criticized his vision, but his execution is still top notch because of his background in tailoring at Saville Row. Now, we have Balenciaga disrupting haute couture as well. I see that Demna wanted to show that haute couture can accessible and almost like condensed with the aesthetic of his ready-to-wear in order to elevate the later and making haute couture more grounded.

[@annabober9249]

I enjoyed a lot how Deborah Milner was making her thoughts while speaking, nothing pre-set plus very honest attitude and open mind for the changes that are happening. Also Joel @gallucks and Ricky had interesting insights, and very cool sparkle in the eye. Thank you for valuable content, pleasure to watch and learn ❤

[@oranges45681]

I like the idea that we should recognize everyone’s efforts. Demna has made a solid amount of contributions to the couture. The one that stands out to me is the menswear one. I also get the business aspect of the changing couture consumer and behavior. I also get the aspect that there is the big question: ‘what is couture?’ My only reservation here is that there is a thin line between being open-minded and questioning the quality of so-called ‘disruption’. I felt a lot of the Demna fans in the panel used this to make those like Deborah and Hannah feel uncomfortable with having a differing standpoint for the risk of seeming old school. I can’t believe they were about to argue that the shirt in the opening look was ‘couture’ standard. I could also argue that a lot of designers have always brought couture standards to RTW: CCP, Geoffrey B Small, Deepthi etc. Upcycling?: Margiela, Marina Yee etc; Volume?: Reí, Yohji etc. and all these include material research. There is nothing ‘dig deeper’ that is special about Demna’s work in relation to couture. For the record, I am going through the details of the clothing in the couture store and one of those t-shirts was hand painted. Some of the others were printed but hey, they are exclusive to the store. Another thing they did a good job at was telling us how many hours went into that work. I’ve seen a lot of commentary about Emperor’s new clothes and it is starting to reek of that. Positioning, distribution, price and marketing communication are starting to shape the outlook of the garments more than the construction itself. And anyone like Deborah questioning it will be seen as old school and dismissed. I can see the homage to Cristobal, and yes there is world where Mickey Mouse and David by Michelangelo can co-exist, but please lets not do too much to make it seem like they are on the same tier. How can we compare look 39 with what Cristobal did? I wouldn’t have picked those two for the comparison. Sure that was a homage and reinterpretation but it was a day and night here to me. And people have reinterpreted in the past without being accused of copying so that seems to be a weak point to me. I noticed we continued to use the word ‘exciting’. Alternatively, it is buzzworthy and then beyond, is it timeless? If this wasn’t Balenciaga or Demna, we would be saying a different thing about that look. With Demna, we have to play intellectual or we have to go to instagram just to appreciate it. Demna will surely go down in history for the changes he brought to fashion and we would gladly intellectualize his work in the museum some day but let’s also be comfortable saying that if we step out of the intellect or business perspective and just look at the clothing, he has some weaknesses. It is fine to call those out. I think Rick was trying to create a balanced view against the broad Demna haters but I also think he didn’t do a great job of point at weak areas.

[@Gallucks]

thank you for having me, it was an amazing to discuss the effect of Demna on the industry and hear other peoples opinions too.

[@b3naqua]

I rly appreciated your perspective 👏🏼

[@huntershires538]

Josh is posing many great questions in this panel, thank you for the consistently good content ShowStudio

[@sharmanitascos]

I know u were sent to lie for him

[@joshuagraham2041]

Big is moving to Paris

[@martacortina3956]

"people when they see something different suddenly the rules of fashion are so rigid" BRAVA

[@devytheexplorer]

I’m not the biggest personal fan of the clothes themselves HOWEVER the showmanship and aesthetic fantasies Demna brought back to fashion presentations is something to give applause to. It felt like there was a cultural void when the McQueen/GallianoxDior/Gaultier era started to fade and fashion shows became empty and formulaic (which also coincided with the rise of social media and tech as well as lazy branding and logos). Demna was the first person in a major way to rise out of this abyss by taking risks which ended up evoking such a visceral feeling when presenting his collections, whether through photography, video, or the runway. Balenciaga now, love it or hate it, is a spectacle and causes a reaction, something needed in such a bland and sterile media landscape.

[@hellshop1162]

Deborah was the only one really making sense

[@bluebanisters2889]

I like Joel’s content, but he’s just a Balenciaga fanboy and has no training in design. His brand is a total Balenciaga knock-off. Not sure what he can contribute here

[@Gallucks]

Deborah actually said to me after that my comments and insights helped her understand the techniques and practises that went into the collection that she might not have known just from seeing images. So that’s what i contributed i guess?

[@Viviano_Magami]

He just like every clueless fans who believe everything their idol said, how would he know there's craftmanship in whatever demna did if he dont't have the knowledge or skill in fashion, especially in Balenciaga's history. A fans like him always justify whatever shitty stuff demna is doing and even if there are craftmanship? where the elegant? where the spaniard influenced? This is balenciaga not vetement!

[@sharmanitascos]

deborah clocked all of you and demna

[@sharmanitascos]

Deborah Milner is the only actual couturier on the panel

[@Gallucks]

* couturière

[@ljbx8]

@@Gallucks couturière*. at least get it ACTUALLY right if you're gonna be correcting other people lmfaoo

[@ljbx8]

@@Gallucks i'm correcting you babe. a female couturier is called a couturière lmao

[@achmadabdelazeezs521]

This would be more interesting with Deborah only in a single interview without those Yay Sayers

[@petzezos]

As Deborah Milner said, "can this Tshirt stand alone & scream couture ??". Hell to the NO. I really laugh at Demna's cult like fans who are determined to spend a fortune for literally the same trashy design he gives again and again . The style stagnation of this brand .. far too much !

[@Viviano_Magami]

Idk why they invide a guest who doesnt anything abour couture and a fan of demna

[@petzezos]

@@Viviano_Magami Only to witness how delusional these Demna fans/influencers are. What would they be in instagram/tik tok if they didn't have some balenciaga pieces in their closet and prance around to get some likes.. They all look like clones wearing clothes from the trash bin. Some of them , a few have of course impeccable style, but the majority just spends thousands of $$ to look the same :) Sayonara suckers!

[@ObservingtheMatrix]

So many good shows but you guys cover Balenciaga to debate controversy and his Denim and sports jerseys as couture vision for the 10000000th time. Thanks but no thanks - SKIPPING

[@FrankD3an]

Fantastic panel. Go on Joshua, keep these up!

[@Melonfroyo]

I have been a balencaiga fan but I totally agree this season is very mid. Just as Deborah says, the actual finish is more important than the "story". Demna's previous couture collections had bold concepts and styling, but they still felt well crafted and thoughtful. This collection feels very lazy, just like the closing look. Ideas like clothing racks, hand painted tshirt or belt dresses feel very repetitive to Demna's past work as well as Margiela's work. What I admired is Demna's scuba diver dresses with sculptrual silhouhette (2nd season), giant neckline with dramtic yet elegant shoulder (3rd season) or a simple tracksuit but with exquisite tailoring (1st season), these are all missing from this collection.

[@Adovian_Thee_Hipster]

Astronomical price points will be the death of luxury. That is, when profits are prioritized over assembling true art.

[@ernesthopkins3746]

Very dynamic conversation. Kudos to all

[@sergonioradze]

Lovely video.

[@CORRECT05]

This was really enjoyable!

[@johndeere3486]

JW Anderson is doing similar work at Loewe, I’m not paying 50k USD for a denim jacket that looks like ready to wear. If you’re going to do grunge as Haute Couture, it needs to look like HAUTE Couture.

[@iactr3807]

Needs to look like Haute Couture? Looool. You probably don’t even own any Balenci ready-to-wear so please don’t refer to a couture collection you don’t own any of. Own it and them maybe comment on it. Your opinions don’t matter to Denma or the brand, especially if you’re not a customer.

[@johndeere3486]

@@iactr3807correct, I do NOT own balenciaga couture. You have “owned” me. You should screen shot this and show all your friends.

[@Zhvianna]

⁠@@iactr3807that’s my biggest take away , the ones that hate the most yet talk about it every single season haven’t even been inside a store; they have no ideia what couture actually is. Couldn’t name a house code if life depended on it.

[@blackvirgo09]

Correct

[@Viviano_Magami]

but loewe dont do couture

[@P0SHED]

People can analyse for years if they want to, but it’s wasteful to make ugly clothing and slap Haute Couture on it. Like, wtf. Don’t be a fashion victim - I beg you!

[@blackvirgo09]

These people are kidding themselves they are sitting there talking about pure trash. The Old Masters are still the vanguard. A dress that you wrap up and you never wear again it's absolutely absurd and pompous

[@Viviano_Magami]

@@blackvirgo09 only Deborah can give opinion about couture bc she has experience doing couture but the rest of these donkey know nothing. People compliment about painting on tshirt that takes hours of work while many small designer has already done that all the time.

[@cesarguevara3362]

I see how Demna is breaking some of the stereotypes of “Couture “ in which comes out as innovative 🙌💜

[@Viviano_Magami]

There's already a lot small brands who sell painted tshirt, patchwork hoodie, tie dye denim etc, demna dont make anything unique.

[@louisvau4132]

@@Viviano_Magami but is there a couture brand who did it?

[@isaiahkulakevich9058]

Deborah we fw u heavy❤

[@shaneho4262]

The title of this video shouldve been “….. Balenciaga Couture” not “….. Balenciaga Haute Couture”.

[@tl30562]

Such JUNK

[@fernaovls]

It’s repetitive. Nearly all of the looks don’t go beyond - design wise - from what he’s done with his past 6 ready to wear collections

[@iactr3807]

And? What exactly is your point here? It’s a defined aesthetic with dozens of variable looks reworked yet familiar each collection. It’s sells and many houses repeat the same looks repetitively reworked each season. Do you even know much about fashion houses at all?

[@marcaudibet2384]

Non pas de coupe et surtout pas de Cristobal La forme peut-être le fond absolument pas Les vêtements de Cristobal avaient une realité avec le corps, le mouvement du corps(comme Chanel ou Vionnet et Schiap) l inverse de Dior etc C est amusant parceque vous nommer le street comme la réflexion de Demna , tout est l inverse, d ailleurs vous faites plutot du roman, de la pseudo sociologie mais de l analyse .je ne crois pas

[@stmn7286]

this panel tired me

[@maryblairtaylor4804]

Yesss couture for men and nonbinary individuals. And/or for femmes who are not ballgown femmes. That said, from someone who grew up in the 90s and then nyc in the 2000s, it definitely feels like paying the most to wear looks championed by innovative humans who had no money. It’s like Valentino using punk studs on everything. Watering down and also making totally out of reach for most people.

[@HALERHONCEPCION]

Without a doubt, Demna still is THE best designer this decade has produced. The range of what he can do separates him feon the rest. No other designer out there can do both streetwear and couture and make them coexist effectively. Remeber when he was starting at Balenciaga and everyone questions his work as "luxury", but season after season he kept pushing it til it became a new form of luxury. I think this new couture collection could be another start of us questioning could streetwear be put to couture standards. I really love the way that he makes everything different in his own way, in his own terms, in his own point of view, in his own self. His display of cutting and draping and silhouettes vs the embroideries and heavy beaded shimmering crystals makes him a stand out in the industry because nobody is doing it at the moment, NO OTHER DESIGNER HAS THIS SKILL.

[@ic1638]

The vocal fry is strong with this lot......

[@davidpachecogarcia]

You can tell that he worked for Maison Margiela with some pieces. The ones that are more “Demna” however, do pose the question of what is couture? And should couture be democratized like how luxury fashion has been at this point ie how luxury fashion blurred the lines when those houses started doing street wear ? 🤔

[@bundess5473]

old lady said rappers lol

[@iactr3807]

I love Demna and what he does at Balenciaga. Unfortunately I think the reception to this show will be even more hostile than previous shows because some of the looks really are quite evocative & extremely innovative. Yet another negative reception especially online from the haters who really don’t understand it, call it trash, overpriced and make the same tired old references to Cristobal in his grave. 😂🙄

[@Sparklyjumpropequeen]

So everybody forgot about the pedo balenciaga scandal?

[@maruxarn]

Way overblown. It was just a shoot with some photographer who had a crazy idea that went too far.

[@lll000l00o]

everyone with a brain did

[@Sparklyjumpropequeen]

@@maruxarn when it comes to children nothing it’s “over react “

[@richardmacleod5253]

How is it Pedo ?

[@Viviano_Magami]

​@@Sparklyjumpropequeenthis guy is either demna's fan or pedo or both

[@NNAPOLEONN]

It’s trash! Seeing this stuff in person is so weird and bazaar. To see it in a person out of the context of a celebrity is horrible. I think people who are in love with these collections aren’t real fashion buyers, none of this stuff easily flows into a normal refined wardrobe.

[@sagsag9630]

the old lady interrupting others was very annoying

[@Happinc]

I’m so glad I listened to all these thought provoking opinions… as my first reaction to it without any knowledge of its production or the show notes was that many of these looks I could throw together myself… However I agree we do need to rethink ideas of what is couture… as long as the incredible couture techniques & skills are not lost and dumbed down due to this streetwear focus on baggy sack clothes, and due to a need to translate these looks into ready to wear to ensure it has a mass market appeal in order to bring in the big bucks. The other thing is that many of these looks will be easily duplicated by the fast fashion producers which sadly just feeds inevitably, the mania of fast fashion! I would like to see brands like balenciaga really doing innovations in upcycled textiles as lord knows they have the cash to really make a difference. Finally I really think a dress that uses 47 metres of unsustainable nylon that can only be worn once is just a waste of time, not even anything particularly different about its shape nor was there any irony in it especially when I think of the truly amazing couture pieces created by Victor and Rolf… Probably I’ve missed the whole point?!🫠🥴🧐