Democracy on Trial: Robert Ray (interview) | FRONTLINE

Robert Ray served as a member of President Donald Trump’s legal defense team during the President’s first Senate impeachment trial in 2020. From 1999 to 2002, he led the Office of the Independent Counsel, during which time he investigated and issued a report on the Whitewater controversy.
This interview offers perspective and legal analysis on the four-count federal indictment against Donald Trump. The former president has pleaded not guilty to all four counts.
The interview was conducted by Kirk Documentary Group’s Mike Wiser for FRONTLINE on Oct. 19, 2023. It has been edited for clarity and length.
This interview is being published as part of FRONTLINE’s Transparency Project, an effort to open up the source material behind our documentaries. Explore the transcript of this interview, and others, on the FRONTLINE website: www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/in...
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[@frontline]

This interview is being published as part of FRONTLINE’s Transparency Project, an effort to open up the source material behind our documentaries. Explore more interviews from "Democracy on Trial" here: kzbin.info/aero/PL_pPc6-qR9ZyWnFlH6G5Ph_r_PKmNs0wG

[@tflg3257]

Propaganda. Election interference.

[@tflg3257]

Trump was robbed. A New York Times 2020 Election Report revealed 104,984 stolen votes in Georgia, 347,768 votes in Pennsylvania.

[@tflg3257]

Stacey Abrams was running an election fraud staffing company in Georgia. Ruby Freeman and her daughter were working for Stacey Abrams.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

@@tflg3257all of the courts disagree with you. The best case to defend against defamation is to prove what you said was true. Rudy Guliani could have killed the argument that he had defamed them if he could prove that they were committing fraud. And yet- he didn’t have such evidence. Which is why he was awarded 150million in a defamation judgement.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

@@tflg3257and yet they never bothered to bring proof to a single court in any of their 61 case? What proof did this article cite?

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

It’s frustrating to hear people continue to say that ‘this’ should all be decided by the people when WE TRIED THAT ALREADY! The whole reason the country is IN this mess is because the American people used their voice to vote him out of office and he refused to go!

[@KateWitt]

LOL most succinct and accurate statement ever

[@chrisfreebairn870]

Let us not forget the pathetic excuse his R co-conspirators used to dodge the political solution, which was to convict him in the Senate: it was that that was not the correct place to hold him to account; the courts they said, is the proper place; NOW, not so much. And they're lobbying SCOTUS with an amicus brief saying the solution must be political not legal. This is classical Trumpish moment by moment survival bs, you know, the kind children try on, unaware that their naive efforts are utterly transparent to the adults in the room. I'm only 20 min into this & this guy is making me sick already. It's pathetic.

[@patticriss2238]

Agreed. The mental gymnastics that trumpf supporters engage in is scary.

[@roundtwo3321]

So true and thank you.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

This seems to be a general issue with Trump. He seems to think he can force himself on women AND America 😬🤷🏻‍♀️

[@adrianfoca865]

This guy is outrageous on so many levels.

[@rossr6616]

in a bad way; wonder who his other clients are/were?

[@peggyivey5828]

And dementia ridden Biden?

[@rizzo3170]

He says Al Gore thought he won too, so what --- yeah and Gore also stepped aside and did not engage in a 4-year conspiracy of lies to the American people saying he won. He also certified the vote.

[@thomasw.5344]

That's not the point. He says that as example, because they took a soundbite at election night. He's not implying that Gore = Trump

[@JustStopPlayingGames]

Also, Gore DID win that election. The Supreme Court said to stop counting the votes with a difference of less than 500 votes. I was 8, and I remember that.

[@peggyivey5828]

Hillary still says she was cheated. Does that count?

[@mikefriedman8320]

gaslighter

[@cmeeblkout]

That's exactly what he is doing. He mentions the justice system , and cross examination.... how do you cross examine a recording? How do you add context to a recording??

[@user-jw8vr5ec6p]

Running himself in circles with the gaslighting. The whole thing about Trump framing his demand of Pence as question means it was a question even though Trump threatened and name-called Pence if he didn't comply with the "question". Simultaneously, POTUS has more power can can do what he wants but also he's a private citizen when he uses his power as POTUS to influence people.

[@rossr6616]

Master Class!

[@timothyross7822]

Using our constitution to defend authoritarianism. What a guy.

[@malenateves]

The difference in moral character and humility between this guy and Rusty Bowers is astounding. This is the type of attorney who has no issue defending people like OJ.

[@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath]

That was a Democrat that defended OJ what are you talking about?

[@SmilingCherryBlossoms-so2tn]

Yes the guy is an idiot talking nonsense

[@exlibrisscientia6741]

Secondly, vast differences in moral ethics and what the law says. You can be against something morally, that doesn't change what the law says about it.

[@louetteduvall4118]

@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath Seems she was talking about moral character, not political party.

[@ptgal220]

No mention of political party, the issue mentioned is "moral character and humility." Do you you associate these characteristics exclusively with Democrats?@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath

[@lastbat]

His inability to remember that asking people to commit crimes is a crime is frustrating.

[@jackjones298]

20:10 "You're not any better able to prove that there was no fraud in the election, as I am able to prove there was fraud in the election." I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but this is just... damn. Tying himself in -nazis- knots to excuse anything Trump did.

[@compo1948]

💯

[@pamschneider8493]

Your comment is spot on, 100% correct!! Twisted his words to defend a traitor!!

[@louiselincoln6557]

We have a government made up of slick lawyers. This guy is trying to make Trump look like a victim without coming out and saying it. He doesn’t understand the danger Trump poses to our country and the world.

[@diegotomasarene-morley7249]

Wow that’s insane… well you can’t prove that invisible pink elephants are the cause of gravity so it could be they cause gravity!

[@noreenmcgovern1023]

It's amazing how one sided you people are. If you don't think this is political... you're wrong

[@GeorgeK520]

Why is he trying to normalize Trumps behavior?!

[@CarolineBearoline]

How generous of him to peel his lips away from licking boots to do this interview

[@adrianfoca865]

He will be right back at it after the interview He really believes in his word salad 🥗

[@gracieallen8285]

I don’t think his lips are down by the feet but more midway down by the backside, next he’ll be asking is my nose brown enough.

[@stevenrobinson9262]

Robert has no moral or legal compass. The corrupt intent of Trump is on display in recordings and witness testimony.

[@stevenrobinson9262]

I would love to see him defend Trump and cross examine witnesses for the prosecution. Tough talk but just talk.

[@CarolineBearoline]

@@stevenrobinson9262 Unfortunately, he is speaking from a place of legal precedence and not a place of morality or justice. Technically correct is the worst kind of correct. This smug bastard is, for the time being, not totally factually incorrect.

[@marlonstjohn]

So, anyone facing a federal indictment should file papers to run for office and then they are automatically given a safe harbor? That's just nuts.

[@noreenmcgovern1023]

The fact they indicated a former President anyway they can..is preposterous.

[@TheExclamtionpoint]

You're bright as a candle aren't you! 😂 ​@noreenmcgovern1023

[@noreenmcgovern1023]

@@TheExclamtionpoint And you're not. What's your point?

[@mmca2622]

It's always good to hear what every side has to say. Including the deluded and the certifiably insane.

[@jakebredthauer5100]

Yes, why doesn't PBS interview DJT?

[@SnuffSimon]

Haha he's reaching alright, but I appreciate the effort by Frontline to remain objective.

[@chrystya]

Could not disagree with him more

[@rosendomendoza1655]

So he’s advocating that the department of justice is an arm of the president….to ignore laws or to prosecute your enemies. Nuts!

[@AMunoz-rh9cz]

The current reality does seem to be that it is an arm of the Executive Branch. Certainly the DOJ is not sufficiently independent enough to truly say we have a balance of powers as long as Presidents are allowed to select the Attorney General as a political plum awarded to a crony versus construct it as a competitive position like any other based on education and experience, with vetting done by independent parties. An ethical President picks a highly qualified AG but we simply cannot afford to rely on chance. The second issue is that it is administered - at a distance- but managed nonetheless by the Executive Branch. The fact that Trump fired both the Attorney General and the Inspector General of the Department tells us that Presidential power is excessive and balance is lacking. Mr. Ray seems to feel that such lack of balance is just swell or, as he put it regarding his belief that Presidents are not subject to the law to the degree that the rest of us are, “ Get over it!”

[@bmohin]

boo hoo. happening during campaign season. then don’t commit the crimes!

[@danielkanewske8473]

If a political figure commits a crime, they shouldn't be prosecuted because they are a political figure?!? That is a terrible argument. He then follows it up with the statement that if elected he will order the Justice Dept to stop prosecuting him. That is a horrible precedent and should be met with a mass resignation from the Justice Dept. So, if the President, with only self interest in mind, chooses a crazy person to tell him that his political rival is selling secrets to our enemies and orders the military to arrest that rival and execute them for treason, then no matter how many credible members of his own administration tell him that he is committing a crime, that the information is incorrect, he is safe to do so and cannot be prosecuted?!!? This argument is insane!

[@jakebredthauer5100]

Biden2

[@Frenchblue8]

​@@jakebredthauer5100I hit the translate into English button but it didn't help

[@victorkowalski8237]

The Supreme Court will be weighing on this shortly. I listened to the arguments made to the appellate court, one of the judges asked the lawyer for Trump “ if a president uses seal team six to execute his political opponent, he’s immune from the law and can’t be prosecuted? Former President Trump’s lawyers argument was if he hasn’t been impeached and convicted by Congress which requires a 2/3 vote he can’t be prosecuted. It’s widely available. Get yourself a book of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and read on how our government works. It’s not depressing for me. It has allowed me to see many positives of our system, although not perfect. Winston Churchill said we have the best of the worst systems.

[@donkania7338]

Welcome to America! Only in America! The good ole red white and blue!

[@sanfordjay1]

Ray is a partisan hack. And a nutcase.

[@arandomnamegoeshere]

Robert Ray believes that the United States deserves a King.

[@adrianfoca865]

He has a difficult time figuring out Trumps intent-well you sit down Willy and let Jack Smith roll the tapes and let the people testify and tell the truth

[@Maliceless100]

Ironically, MAGA and liberal Americans agree Trump's intention was to remain in power.

[@bmohin]

interfering with the peaceful transfer of power is not within the scope of a president’s duries. period.

[@peggyivey5828]

He didn't it was not an insurection. If you listen to the x capital police chief, he blames Pelosie and Shummer!

[@lindaschmidt7681]

The line was crossed by Trump and his cronies, and I guess Ray is his crony too.

[@ShadesGameSource]

46:50 "I'm asking you, consistent with your oath, in the office that you're in, whether you can see your way to find 13,000 votes." What planet does this guy live on? We all heard what Trump actually said on that phone call. That this guy would deign to twist Trump's words like this tells you everything you need to know about him. I get that it's important to be hear both sides of this issue, but this is just painful to listen to.

[@ARichardP]

Trump doesn’t want to talk about the significant undervote in Georgia. He pretends it didn’t happen or that those votes were altered. Anybody can see that those voters just couldn’t bring themselves to vote for him even though they voted for other Republicans down ballot. This is the revolting effect his personality has on a significant portion of people.

[@peggyivey5828]

He never said make-up false votes he sad to find votes! Big difference. And there is a video showing ballot stuffing. In Georgia, it is illegal to harvest ballots.

[@greenthumb8266]

@@peggyivey5828in over 70 cases in different precincts, with different judges (mostly republican appointed judges btw) and NO fraud was ever found , it’s over, everyone knows it was a scam, a ruse, to keep that sorry grifter in power.

[@greenthumb8266]

When one side has zero integrity or interest in truthfulness, when one side does nothing but lie, project and gaslight, we no longer need to “hear both sides” we just need accountability.

[@annieb5146]

Amen💕🙏🏽🇺🇲

[@TheShaneama]

Isn’t asking someone to violate their oath a violation of one’s own oath?

[@sanfordjay1]

A presidential campaign is no excuse to commit and get away with crimes. 70 million people may want to think about voting for a criminally indicted candidate.

[@lauracarstiou3505]

Right on

[@brightworksdetailing9746]

And that 70 million was pre jan 6th

[@peggyivey5828]

JOE Tater has dementia and has allowed every Tom Dick and Harry into the country, and their crime is rampit!

[@peggyivey5828]

If you look at poles, Trump is ahead of Biden. To day out of 11 poles, Trump was ahead in nine of them.

[@SS-lj6dr]

@@peggyivey5828Which one, North or South pole?

[@aletheist2709]

Many times he says, "This act alone doesnt show criminal....", but it wasn't one act, it was many acts. Spin, spin, spin.

[@AMunoz-rh9cz]

An old script he has uttered many times. Any larger meaning attached to the issues was lost to him long long ago.

[@peggyivey5828]

SPIN, SPIN PAID OFF DA'S! CROOKED DOJ, AH THAT IS ALL WE NEED TO KNOW. SO GLAD MERIC GARLAND WAS NOT PUT ON THE SUPREME COURT.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

Is he seriously just ignoring the actions included in the indictment? Like fake electors? How is that a first amendment defense?

[@SmilingCherryBlossoms-so2tn]

Trump committed so many crimes like telling people that they cannot let them take over our country to fight like hell some of those people life is ruined forever because of trump locked up some will die in prison because of trump lies

[@davidvergolini9740]

This man is exactly what's wrong with this country. He has no moral compass at all. None......

[@Crystl22]

"Get over it"! He should tell his client that!!!

[@lauracarstiou3505]

Amen

[@theminer49erz]

How can the voters decide if they are not allowed to see the evidence until they go to court? Thats so stupid. Campaigns in most places are only a few months long. He is going on almost 4 years of a campaign. Just because the republican voters that vote in their primary picked him, he doesnt have to face even 91 charges for 4 year?! How is that right?! It's a whole other world out there for people like these, isn't it? 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@alicassidy8913]

They don't let evidence out in order not to taunt a jury pool (if there is one).

[@Wray62]

I am confident that the prosecution understands the degree of difficulty in these cases quite well.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

Ummm.. that wasn’t the statement he made to Rusty Bower’s 🤷🏻‍♀️ He asked him to replace the electors. He didn’t ask him to ‘find votes’.

[@anonymoussoulsalwayspraisi7016]

He asked Raffensberger to find the votes.....u r right!

[@Abe18874]

Why give this person a platform. He still hasn't learned how to be ethical.

[@ptgal220]

Is Robert Ray a moral gymnast? His "get over it" applications are telling.

[@AMunoz-rh9cz]

Great term! I suspect Mr Ray made a decision long long ago that Daddy is always right and has devoted his life to protecting that illusion at all costs. I must say that he has been most diligent in this endeavor. He is a Proud Boy in a suit.

[@TheShaneama]

If you try to hire a person to commit a murder, you are in the clear according to this guy because it is up to the potential hire NOT to break the law. What a load of shite.

[@rosendomendoza1655]

Interesting that to Maga the law is tainted with politics when the finger is pointed at them.

[@adrianfoca865]

Ill just take Rusty Bowers word over this “attorney “ word. Trump exposed how slimy the lawyers can be also,they are all piety until you need them to be piety and than you get this word salad coming out of his mouth.

[@robertlanders5723]

Law absolutely is more important than political considerations. Period. How can anyone possibly argue differently.

[@Lmberjosh]

Mr. Ray points out numerous times that certain approaches or legal theories around this case are slippery or tricky- and he’s not entirely wrong, mostly because these waters are entirely uncharted- but what is very tricky or slippery are the arguments he is trying to make here to justify Trump sidestepping accountability for his crimes. His argument is just about circular, where on one hand he says the true solution or long term solution to this problem is the vote of the people and in principle that is true, but Trump’s actions strike directly at that remedy. If he had is way in 2020/2021 or has his way this year, the vote of the people may well not matter. I understand the argument that criminal prosecution for a former president will be difficult and will have different considerations than a prosecution of an average citizen would. Where he goes wrong is using that as part of his justification to not do it. The whole situation is shameful and unfortunate but we have to deal with the problem before us. This guy knows the law and knows that this isn’t a strictly or even a majority political issue. There were clear violations here and attempts to do much more and he knows it, which is why he is going through these verbal gymnastics to explain his point.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

I wish he had approached each question from the factual basis of the law and not the twisting and evasion of the law. Maybe that’s just too much to expect from a defence attorney, but this guy was a prosecutor!

[@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath]

The same criticisms of Trump could be made of Stacey Abrams. her nonprofit organization was interviewed and admitted that they got a list of the phone numbers of the people whose votes had not been counted because of errors and they called them up and if they were Democrats they told him how to cure the ballot so their vote would count but if they were Republicans they said have a nice day

[@imsobored04]

The ultimate problem is that he isn't lying about the powers that a president has. The president is certainly above the law. We just never needed a reason to set the record straight. Which is why these people have been whispering into George bushes, dick chenny, Trump, pences ears. As of right now the power that the president does have is not clearly laid out. I want a clear answer this this question. Trump needs to go to trial.

[@Humannondancer]

@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath That's bs. The repubs could have done that for their voters too.

[@SuperMel42]

@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath But that isn't illegal. It isn't declaring "if it hadn't been for fraud I'd have won, so I won". Also Abrams stance about refusing to concede isn't saying "of the people who did vote, I got more votes and so won". She is saying "my opponent used his power as the SoS to stack the electorate in his favor by disenfranchishing people more likely to vote against him". Again not saying it was illegal, but that it shouldn't be allowed, especially given the obvious conflict of interest. She has campaigned not to overturn the results of the election, but to change the laws/systems which allowed it to happen in the first place. It's an Apples and Miatas comparison (they aren't even the same "type" of thing).

[@janetmarugg9424]

This is gold medal mental gymnast stuff in the face of clear and present danger.

[@andal7404]

The intention was to use all the fraudulent slates. The comparison to JFK and Nixon is disingenuous.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

He definitely loses a lot of credibility in attempting to compare the two. As a lawyer- he should know that with JFK, the electors were legally certified. They weren’t legally certified and were done in the cover of night in Trumps case. WITHOUT the knowledge or consent of the state election system.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

Ray- “it’s cool if the president asks you to do something illegal or against your oath. It wasn’t an order. It was an ask” Also Ray-describing the president asking someone to do something and mentioning some kind of ‘threat’ (you’ll be a RINO, you’ll be subject to criminal prosecution) Ray- “the statement alone can’t prove criminal intent” I guess extortion is totally cool 👌🏼

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

Extortion is cool- it’s just up to the person being extorted to uphold the oath. Totally ok if the president asks you to defy your oath. All fine… nothing to see here

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

@@lexluthor9509i don’t think the commander in chief can give illegal directions. Using the example of the district court of DC. “Is the president able to order Seal Team 6 to assassinate his political opponent and not be criminally held accountable?” Sounds to me like even the act of asking seal team 6 could be criminal. Now what if he extorted seal team 6? ‘If you don’t assassinate my political opponent I’ll bring you up on charges of insubordination’ Would that be even MORE egregious? Then take in to account the holdings of federal judges that state that the election is not within even the outside boundaries of the executive branch. The executive branch has no role in state elections. Even bringing concerns of the election is putting the president in the role as ‘presidential nominee’ and NOT the president. (Since the executive branch has no role in elections) Extortion is a federal crime. Seems Ray is completely obfuscating.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

@@lexluthor9509that’s just the hypothetical situation that the district judges brought up in the immunity hearing. His lawyer was arguing that he had absolute immunity sans an impeachment and conviction. So the judges were testing the bounds of that assertion.

[@chrystya]

Thankfully he won’t be able to get out of the Georgia case. Sure, let’s just not prosecute anyone standing for election.

[@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath]

The Georgia case is so weak it’s laughable

[@danielpineda8807]

Georgia case is falling apart day by day

[@nycsearch9945]

Fani has been subpoenaed

[@timothyross7822]

He said, "that's not how the constitution should work"! So full of it! I agree, r. Ray is criminally insane and in need of a vacation. Right and wrong are not within this fellows personal constitution.

[@ASMRtwan]

Just imagine how Robert ray will be viewed in history

[@Sad4Gullibles]

#45 delayed this trial and no one else!

[@wmvaras1]

Robert Ray is not facing reality. It’s called denial.

[@lauracarstiou3505]

He never should have been allowed to run for office..the turning point was when the Senate failed to convict at the second impeachment. Only the voters can save the country.. not the System.

[@peggyivey5828]

He was not guilty. Democrats are liars.

[@keneg2406]

This guy is the type of guy Trump would love to have on his team…He is obviously auditioning for a spot on Trump’s legal team! He’s full of crap!

[@allanmclean9669]

So ah, I guess Mr Ray thinks Trump is good to go - nothin' to look at here. After all, he was the president.

[@ShadesGameSource]

1:20:15 "...what PEOPLE HAVE CHARACTERIZED as a violent, deadly protest." Is this guy actually suggesting that he, himself does NOT view the Jan. 6 assault as violent or deadly??? It was a protest that turned incredibly violent, and at least one or two people DID actually die.

[@peggyivey5828]

Police shot Ashley Babit, and police beat a woman, and she died from a heart attack. The Jan 6th protesters did not kill anyone! The others that died was from natural causes!

[@greenthumb8266]

I would like to ask this, Robert Ray, “ how much did you get, for selling your soul, and was it worth it ?”

[@davidsawyer1599]

People that are innocent don't seek immunity!

[@peggyivey5828]

He is saying he is immune.

[@KylerSharp]

I’m only a couple of minutes into this segment and this guy’s already giving off the impression of someone who still doesn’t get it. He states that the country is going to “rue” this decision to brings changes against Trump. Tell’s us, Mr Ex-Prosecutor, WTF did you do as a prosecutor? Tell us how letting Donald Trump off the hook is a good idea for the country... What a jackass!

[@erichawkins5738]

Robert Ray is insane. Does he think that this guy should get away with criminal misconduct just because he is the President?

[@bill8985]

I could never listen to an hour and 24 minutes of this guy's nonsense. He and Ken did lots of investigating while Clinton was running for office (2nd term). I guess he's changed his mind about that, eh?

[@petercorbett3794]

This is a very confused man. If Jan 6 had happened in Germany, Trump would have been arrested on Jan 7 and he’d be unlikely to see the outside world again. Mr Ray doesn’t seem to grasp the gravity of these charges, and instead wants to prioritize giving Trump a clear run for a second go-around over the inconvenience of having to attend court. Of course you can never be sure with this type of slippery customer, whether he actually believes what he’s saying or is just acting the impertinent defence counsel. A cloud of confusion, a moral fog, seems to follow these people around. I suppose these people are so far out of the box now that they’re just lost.

[@peggyivey5828]

Germany lol funny not a free country.

[@peggyivey5828]

Germany Nazis!

[@drthinguyen-phuocndptlac2468]

So according to Robert Ray, nothing, by itself, constitutes a criminal act or a motive?

[@RobinHood70]

I see why this guy got into law: he doesn't think anything is, or should be, illegal and wants to fight to let criminals off scot-free.

[@HootUSMC75]

Oh it's unfair to be on trial while running for office..... Boo hoo, he never gave his victims any fair play. This guy suuuuucks.

[@hectorrubio1012]

I get his point that in the court system, you have to be guilty to be found guilty, and that is the point. Right? Let Jack do his job. I'm sure he has the receipts.

[@peggyivey5828]

Lol you wish.

[@AbbieHoffmansGhost]

I love how he believes that an ask is not an order without useing the terms 'solicitation' or 'conspiracy'. Smooth. This is why many lawyers have bad reputations as manipulators and ambulance chasers.

[@randomboris]

Robert Ray's bias shines through this interview quite strongly. I guess he doesn't want to anger Trump.

[@ramel79]

I would love to square off with Mr Ray in a court of law, his arguments are ludicrous 😅!!!

[@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath]

And yet you’re not even willing to use your real name?

[@ramel79]

@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath What’s my real name?

[@annieb5146]

What about dereliction of duty.? He could have stopped it hours before he finally did.

[@lovingoldlady4872]

I find this most interesting, if baffling. This gentleman is saying that trials for “allegations “ be delayed because the defendant is using the election as a delay tactic. If elected, he has power to make it all disappear. Do I , as an American voter, have the right to know if one of the candidates is a convicted, by a jury, criminal? According to this gentleman, the rights of voters are not important.

[@marklaturner7395]

This was a really frustrating interview to listen to. At no point, will he admit to anything as admissible as evidence, and instead use every opportunity to be an apologist for the actions of that day by Trump. Lawyers like this that can twist the law to such an extent are one of the main reasons we’re in the predicament that we are in today. There is such a thing as culpability and wrong and right.

[@andal7404]

Almost all criminal behaviour is preceded by speech.

[@jimmybraden3334]

17inins in he complains about them only being 'allegations' BUT seems to be at a loss why the defendant is avoiding the going to court to prove why the allegations are unfounded.

[@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath]

I don’t know what country you’re from but in this country you’re innocent until proven guilty so your best to keep your mouth shut

[@jimmybraden3334]

THEN GET IN TO COURT PERRY MASON.. or SHUT YOUR mouth @@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath

[@jimmybraden3334]

@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath IM from the one that deals with REALITY. GET your boy on the WITNESS stand or keep your mouth shut.

[@peggyivey5828]

He did not move the court case, the judge did.

[@sanfordjay1]

What kind of an attorney is Robert Ray? A sorry one from this Frontline report. He wants to turn the president into an emperor.

[@patrikiwi1]

He is a bill clinton special prosecutor

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

@@patrikiwi1doesn’t matter who he’s served under. He’s definitely blowing some fluff. 😳

[@jakebredthauer5100]

Trump has respect for the rights of the people.

[@wanderlustworldschooling543]

😂

[@kimhaas7586]

@@jakebredthauer5100Does that include the people in swing states that didn’t vote for him? A simple yes/no.

[@truetech4158]

Reality vs The Church Mafio$o.

[@sbonventure]

It’s so odd to hear an attorney casually say that if he’s elected he has the authority to end this case. That’s what Nixon did and he was impeached and resigned.

[@davidsawyer1599]

@roughly 54 minutes is the first time he acknowledges Trump's fault. Trump's failure to rein in his supporters. Yet he believes Trump is not responsible for their actions?

[@peggyivey5828]

Trump was not there, and Trump was not in charge of capital security! End of story.

[@TheShaneama]

Mr.Ray’s solution: Landslides victories. Wow. Truly inspired stupidity.

[@adrianfoca865]

Lets keep helping this guy--hello Trump only listens to bad advice--the good advice he calls it deep state,lunatics,etc etc

[@emberrayne8987]

If this is the defense, I'm excited for the impending sentence 😂

[@devilaces]

It's interesting to hear how permissive this person believes the law to be. I mean, I think there's a fair case to say that a lot of the things Trump tried to do (compel Pence to no certify the electors, substitute his own electors instead of the legitimate ones) would over ride the process of the people being able to choose their president, yet he also considers the ultimate check to presidential power to be popular opinion.

[@adrianfoca865]

For this guy everything is a hard call but if Trump was brown with an Oz of marijuana in his pocket it would be a slam dunk …in jail that afternoon

[@6222999]

Robert Ray is just one of those guys who would say black is white, up is down, and wrong is right not because he believes it, but because he knows it will attract attention..

[@TT-wu8kc]

Justice and the truth, before power and politics, you hack!

[@garybowler5946]

Isn't this the guy who carried his papers into the Senate impeachment hearing in a shopping bag?

[@michellelague7923]

He and Ken Starr… stellar jurists!🙄Great legal minds…. Lord help us!!!

[@susan174]

If it were any other president, we would have to take into account their character, temperament, behavior patterns, reputation, past actions, etc. Impossible to judge culpability without, to some degree, considering the individual alongside consideration of the office they held and its privileges and obligations.

[@robertblount9985]

This is what happens when you are reduced to becoming so microscopic with your explanations that those same explanations become absurd.

[@karync.6707]

"Jack Doo Doo" has spoken, lol 17:56

[@lupemerrit]

Wow! This guy needs to wake up.

[@ptgal220]

What is Robert Ray's view of voting rights and efforts to deny access for some voters?

[@rooonbo]

Soo i can rob a bank and run for office the next day and not face any consequences till the election is over? Let the voters decide?

[@nathanjones5457]

I am SO HAPPY to see this interview. We hadn't had any new Frontline interviews in 11 months! I was worried you weren't doing anymore.

[@sallyr.6891]

There has to be consequences.

[@Jbstation516]

The. Republicans should pick a candidate who’s not tied up in courts issue solved. Trump should run in 2028 if not convicted 😂😂😂

[@truetech4158]

Ever wonder why trump was so smiley when he described to a group of reporters about his long time next door neighbor as being quite the ladies man that he said he heard likes em young, to saying that he reaches out and grabs em by the what sounds like sexual assault, to paying over 80 million dollars in a sexual sociopathy case, while having over 25 other sexual assault claimants, and making a big yelly hissy fit when columbus statues were torn down and columbus was a known sadistic sociopathic sexual and emotional and violent abuser murder of kids? He should be in Riker's with a tiny window able to stare off at manhattan.

[@Sad4Gullibles]

The fact he didn't act immediately when the protest went violent is enough to prove he did not fulfill his oath of office.

[@peggyivey5828]

Trump told them they could have any security they wanted, including the national guard. The head of the Capital police to Pelosie to bring them in before things went to hell, she refused. It was a setup! They did not have to ask Trump he had already told them. And you are wrong he told them more than once. But you listen to fake news.

[@catherinekillingsworth3386]

I keep my friends close. I keep my enemy's closer. I was following him, and I have transcripts saved!!! I got kicked out because I never sent money. But him or somebody texting for him and emailing me for him was always just asking for money. Also followed Bannon and all the other hinchman.

[@kathyfoley2364]

14th amendment section 3 DISQUALIFIES Insurrectionist from Running for or holding office All of them

[@peggyivey5828]

No one has been charged for insurection. Most were charged for tesspassing.

[@kathyfoley2364]

@@peggyivey5828 Wrong again

[@Bozeman42]

​@@peggyivey5828and some were convicted of seditious conspiracy

[@kippwieland6464]

Ray is just fine with Trump's unwarranted claims that he won. The interviewer should have asked him if he believes that Trump got kicked to the curb in 2020. I think he would burn up 10 minutes twisting himself into knots to give a non-answer.

[@daleuark]

When ISN'T there an election cycle in progress? We've turned elections, like pretty much everything else, into entertainment. To suggest a prosecutor should use their discretion to avoid said conflicts is absurd given the obvious (and endless) media focus.

[@davidmacaronibender5626]

A little help here? If a president essentially can break the law by making illegal acts and impeachment is undertaken because of " high crimes and misdemeanors" isn't or wouldn't the president be immune from impeachment?

[@davidmacaronibender5626]

Does anyone see the problem here

[@CombatK9Handler]

He broke the law, so he should face the consequences just like each and every law-abiding citizen in America. His lies and deceit are coming back to haunt him and will be for a long time. Oh well! Not my prob.

[@peggyivey5828]

What lies?

[@peggyivey5828]

If lies make someone guilty, then Joe Biden needs to be in prison!

[@keneg2406]

The country already rejected this fool and he refused to go! The country already spoke! We shouldn’t have to speak again!

[@tomretallick1719]

Mr. Ray’s defense strategy seems to be this “Donald Trump says unfortunate things because he’s stupid.”

[@tomretallick1719]

If I’m ever charged with anything could I get this cat’s number? Not sure there’s enough cash, though there probably is, to give defense to knowingly guilty people. Good job PBS for a long form interview on the possible defense strategy.