Demon: the Fallen - Bastions of the Fallen and High Cities of the Host

[@richardk4625]

It is great! It's good to hear about the origins of things in other games. I think this makes the world of darkness nicely complete and allows for many possible theories. The concept and lore of this game was my favorite. Even so, in my interpretation, it is very tragic and depressing. Thanks.

[@theoldcountry]

Yes, indeed! This is one of the things I enjoy most about WoD games in general: they have disempowering settings, coupled with empowering mechanics, which, especially for Demon, creates a superb contrast between the small victories characters experience (and all the things they have control over), and the tragic, collective backstory which keeps torturing the protagonists to this day - the guilt, the anger, the cruelty... (and all the things they cannot control or change) We see it in the Demon books as well, there are characters who can have pretty much anything they want, allies, contacts, retainers, resources, access to reality-bending Lores...but they still cannot escape their own deeds, which will haunt them forever. And in some cases, they cannot protect the ones they love 🥲 Compared to a mortal, a Fallen is powerful beyond imagination. Compared to the city's Tyrant or one of the Earthbound, the individual Fallen is... inconsequential. I really love this approach, and I think it says a lot about the nature and meaning of power in real life 😌

[@DominusDiabolik]

Excellent vid, fortresses and history are two of my favorite topics! I'm looking forward to building of a bastion episode. The prospect of learning more of demon logistics pleases me greatly, as I'm a bit of a simulationist when it comes to running games. I like to "have my receipts" when the players start poking around in odd ways like they always do.

[@theoldcountry]

Nice! Then you're going to love the episode on bastion creation. I'm still working on the details, and I don't know if it's going to be the very next release, but it will be published as soon as possible 😌

[@MrSerfer11]

Great video, bastions are one of the best dungeons for high level game

[@theoldcountry]

😈Quite so, and it's really cool to have that option for groups who want more action and more dungeons, right? I mean, the politics and intrigue isn't really going anywhere. It's still there, but this way, the game allows... more 😎

[@Nevera476]

Great video as always. Im very excited for the bastion creation video

[@theoldcountry]

Mwhahahaha! Soon 😁 I'm still figuring out some details for that one. I want it to be almost like a sort of "listen and play" kind of episode, so potential storytellers can drag and drop anything they like from my bastion right into their own games 😉 It's a shame I don't have the time or patience to work on a more ambitious project, like a Storyteller's Vault book. But, slowly, maybe I can still provide that fan-made "book" in audio format, for free, right here on the channel 🥰

[@Nevera476]

@@theoldcountry don't sell yourself short. I subscribed to over 100 channels but I play your videos first, especially Demon. These audio clips make the material easier to digest and absorb. I've read the corebook and the players guide but I still learn something new with each video. I also have suggested your channel to all of my players. We're still working on VTM (real life got in the way) but as you roll out lore videos I'm sending the links to those players. (Currently devil, malefactor, and devourer with 2 undecided)

[@theoldcountry]

@@Nevera476 Whoooohoooo, thank you so much for the support! 🥺You're a dear

[@Starborne398]

I for one, loved it as always. I really enjoy learning the lore through you, since Demon is the game I am less familiar with, but feel drawn to its atmosphere and themes. Thank you.

[@theoldcountry]

My pleasure, as always! 🥰

[@--Luna.]

I really love the way it ends in this time. 🥰

[@theoldcountry]

Yup, that's what I also love about lore like this, the fact that the writers found a way to still include it in the contemporary setting (the actual game setting) of Demon, so it's not just a cool backstory, but it can be an ongoing story 😌

[@pocket4285]

Incredible video as always

[@theoldcountry]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed 😁

[@edmoody2920]

Notes lots of notes. I now have better ideas for my players. Thanks i hadnt gotten around to reading thspese places. But wow they sound wonderful and terrifying.

[@theoldcountry]

Hehehehe, you should have seen me prepping and writing this episode. I was checking out 3 different books at the same time, two of them taking up 50-50 on my screen, physical Core Book on my lap, in the hopes of getting more lore on just a single bastion 😆 The info is not easy to find, it's quite minimal, and it's spread throughout multiple supplements. Ah, I'm happy I got this one done, slowly and methodically ☺ EDIT: oh yeah, and there's conflicting information regarding Kasdeja. The Storyteller's Companion says some mortals were brought in and then they wanted their pets, plants, clothes and collectibles as well (which the Slayer's indulged and made happen), while the Houses of the Fallen book says the Haven was built in entirety before all available souls were brought in to populate it. In this case, since I think it's a more sensitive take and more compatible with Wraith lore, I went for the Storyteller's Companion version 🥰

[@edmoody2920]

@@theoldcountry I can only imagine. But they end result was brought togather well. It does suck when all upyour information you have to find is so scattered but once you bring it all togather its so much better

[@FBI-ju5no]

Request: lore of flame for DTF next? Please.

[@theoldcountry]

One quick stop for Lore of Firmament first, then Lore of Flame, since I'm going in reverse order of Houses now. We're very close 🥺

[@FBI-ju5no]

@@theoldcountry Oh sweet! The wait is totally worth it!

[@jackmalin2528]

Not really a interesting topic from GM or Player perspective. How would you solve mechanicaly and on the narative level changing a body? Stats? Skills? memories?

[@edmoody2920]

Iv had to do this a few times and the best way iv found is if you can don't take everything from them when changing hosts. Alotnof times I'd say find people close to your skill. But at the same time as the Fallen gets more use to using a human vessel. They may pick up there old ability easier the longer there on earth. Just an opinion. Also the discussion is a good one and one most of my players ask about if it would happen.

[@theoldcountry]

Brace yourself, this is going to be a long one 😄 There's a couple of ways this can go, depending on desired effect: - if the storyteller's goal is to make things dramatic, and quite final, one option is to just say the Fallen is pulled back into the Abyss. No second chances, rerolls or host changes. You died and that's the end of it. Buuut, I think this is also the lazy option, so let's explore others 😁 - if the storyteller's goal is to empower the player, they should allow said player the maximum amount of choice and control, which means... inviting the player to make a back-up host, at the start, or throughout the game, just like the did the first host. In this case, the player needs to be responsible with stats and consider them on a case-by-case basis. Which belongs to the host, and which belongs to the Fallen? Stats like Appearance, Intelligence, all Physicals and the more mundane backgrounds, like Influence, Contacts and maybe Resources are tied to the host's body first and foremost. If the player actively wants to be surprised, the storyteller can decide on these ratings. Then there's the Fallen stats, like Faith, Willpower, Lores ratings and backgrounds such as Eminence, Legacy, Paragon and so on. Personally, I would transfer these as they currently are unto the new host. We must also remember there is a difference in xp between the experienced, in-play host, and the back-up host. In this case, I would invite the player to keep track of the total xp they've gained throughout the game and everything that was spent on non-Fallen exclusive stats (like Legacy/Lores etc) can be reallocated in a way that makes sense with the new host. Memory-wise, we have, again, 2 options. If we want to empower the player, we let them choose how much of the previous host they remember. The way I see it, this choice has 3 branches: 1 - the Fallen is dominant, some Torment is gained, but memories from both hosts are preserved; 2 - the memories of the previous host are dominant, so the character needs to learn how to be a new person, which is a dramatic and very attention-to-details process; 3 - the new host is dominant, in which case the memories of the previous host are still there, along with previous emotions, but they are being overwritten at a rapid pace. The character in this third case might seek out their previous host's family, children or lover, and try to convince them "Hey, I know I look like someone else, but it's me, it's Allan! Look, I'm not dead!", which is, again, very dramatic and emotional, quite a good choice for slow-burn, character-driven games. That good ol' personal horror 😉 - if the storyteller doesn't want to let the player choose, BAM! Spring a new host on'em 😆 In this case, the player, though they don't get a choice in the new host, gets to experience the joy of basically rediscovering their entire character. Memories can come in waves, the protagonist resembles an amnesiac at first, with their own son bumping into them on the street going "Dad/mom, where have you been? Good heavens, we were worried sick!" and the character being wracked by memories: "Oh, crap, I have a family. This really is my son." It's a great way to turn every aspect of the host's life into a mystery: "Why did I beat the shit out of my boss before I swallowed that fist-full of pills? Why am I being served divorce papers? Why is there a restraining order again me? Why is there a frigging dead body in my freezer?" You know, freaky, shocking actions that might've broken the host down to where the Demon was able to possess them. Sooo, regardless of choice, it's still a little complicated since the player needs to be very good at separating stats when they make the character, though they might intentionally forget some things and reallocate the dots to a new stat. And in some instances, it ALL depends on the player's ideas and how they write the character. Does Shubniel have a Melee rating of 4 because the host was a HEMA champion before his tragic accident? Or it is because of Shubniel herself was a front-liner in the War and cut down more Celestials than anyone can imagine? As for rules, I would use the rules found in the core book for resisting the pull of the Abyss and finding a new host, with the mention that if the Fallen becomes an Earthbound, we use the rules found in the Earthbound book. It's a very reasonable ruleset to use (though it's quite bare bones) If the host body is changed AS THE RESULT OF A LORE which allows for that change, I would deem the new host to be already stripped of it's soul and memories, and in that case, the Demon retains only their previous memories (Celestial + previous host), without acquiring new ones 😈 I think this is an excellent way to go about it for players who don't need any drama, just a new host with which to pursue their plans and get back to the action. And in this case it's super fun if the player requests the services of a Defiler or a Devourer, to give their current host body a completely new look, or even the previous one (the one they were dispatched from). Imagine everyone thinking Timothy died in that shooting, because, in truth, he did. Shit, they buried him 3 days later, next to his father. And now, 2 weeks later HE'S BACK! 😳Trixfigor was pushed out and towards the Abyss, but he had already prepped a new host, someone who was put into a coma and kept alive with the helps of medical devices. Trixfigor is very wealthy, so he can afford such a luxury. The Defiler did a swell job. The new host looks EXACTLY like Timothy. ...or something like that 🙂 I hope this helps. So far, I haven't been in a situation where I've had to body-swap, so I'm not talking from experience, just theoretically 🤔

[@jackmalin2528]

@@theoldcountry I find it less than satisfactory :P personaly i went with: at char creation advantages (backgrounds and merits and flaws) are split between demon and human. When body dies the human backgrounds change. as for skills, memories and atributes for easyness i say that demon gets memories only the 1 time so no new skills , atributes supernaturaly stay the same.

[@jackmalin2528]

Maybe a video on the topic? @@theoldcountry

[@theoldcountry]

@@jackmalin2528 I don't think I'll be able to write and release it soon, but let me see what I can do 😉