Demon the Fallen Vs Demon the Descent

There is a difference between old World of Darkness and new World of Darkness, though if you havent already been a fan of the games in these settings you may not be aware of some of the differences. today lets talk about the difference between Demon the Fallen and Demon the Descent.
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Time Stamps
00:00 - Start
01:01 - Demon the Fallen vs Demon the Descent
01:54 - Setting Differences In DtF vs DtD
03:27 - Lore Differences Between DtF and DtD
04:27 - Character Creation Demon The Fallen Vs Demon The Decent
05:16 - Mechanical Differences DtF and DtD
05:48 - Tone Differences Between DtF and DtD
06:17 - OWoD vs CofD (NWoD)
07:55 - Heres What I Think About OWoD and CofD
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#wod #demon #worldofdarkness

[@forgottenvoid]

The reason it became Chronicles of Darkness was that some people get confused between whether one book was OWoD or NWoD. OWoD just says ‘World of Darkness’ while NWoD sometimes just say ‘World of Darkness’ instead of ‘New World of Darkness.

[@TheMapleTable]

Its caught me up before too... Not confusing at all

[@KOkami03]

@@TheMapleTable As someone who enjoys both... I feel you.

[@MephiticMiasma]

So in Descent, Demons are essentially AI's (Angelic Intelligences) that gained sentience and free will. Love the concept.

[@TheMapleTable]

Pretty much, and this makes them demons

[@yellowbelt]

Yep. Then deciding whether or not if they should fall into pandemonium.

[@nathandavidson7298]

You’re correct, and it’s a super fun concept as well! Another thing that makes the Unchained so interesting is the sheer customization options of your demons true form and what it can do. Demons in DTD have essentially three types of “supernatural” abilities: Embeds, Exploits, and Form Abilities. Form abilities are pretty much these pieces of arcane technology and programs that make of the demons physical body and can range from things like metal teeth/ claws to magma blood to teleportation systems to dozens of other options. It’s really, REALLY cool!

[@acidblue8111]

yeah, and the best part of DoD is how modular the character creation is. the Cover system can get tedious at times but the shenanigans you can pull by effectively playing as multiple characters can be very fun if the Storyteller and the other players are also into it

[@theOriginalS.P.]

The God-Machine is a literal machine and Angels are its Agents and Subrotines. Demons are Angels who fall out of the system for some reason. You can compare it with the Matrix. Angels are basicaly Agents and Demons are rouge Programs who hide or work against the Matrix like Seraph, the Merowinger or the Oracle.

[@dennismader4609]

Nice! I like the theme of the fallen game more, it's a bit easier to grasp. Also, I miss the shared universe aspect. It's neat to have all these supernatural beings interacting.

[@TheMapleTable]

I miss the shared universe between the games

[@KOkami03]

@@TheMapleTable But the games do share a universe. They just don't share a grand historical saga. It's still entirely possible to run a mixed game, in fact, it's slightly (and I do mean slightly) easier.

[@chriscortez2036]

CofD is more like a toolbox than anything. Different supernaturals can interact and you can have crossovers between them, there’s just no overarching plot or preconceived notions between them. At least not canonically. You can always home brew stuff of course.

[@sarahdale9968]

Currently running a cross splats old world of darkness game where one of the player characters is a Demon. He is a Scourge, who possessed a doctor and is struggling with his involvments during the ancient rebellious war with his involvment with the creation, and subsequent destruction, of the nephilims.

[@KOkami03]

Not bad @The Maple Table you pretty much nailed it. However, there are two details you got wrong (And I apologize since this is probably going to sound nitpicky. In general, I LOVE your videos, especially the ones on Starfinder and OWoD): 1) The various gamelines of CoD DO in fact still occupy a shared universe. Your video on the God Machine already shows that given how Demons have opinions on the various Supernatural denizens and the God Machine's relation to them. 2) DtD's Agendas are actually much closer to DtF's Philosophies rather than Houses. The House equivalent for DtD is called Incarnations and they represent what roles the Demons were built for when they were still Angels by the God Machine. Still, I think you did mostly a good job talking about how the two Universes are different, and I do agree that you can easily draw on the lore and ideas of one for use in the other. I mean, the God Machine sounds like something the Weaver would create, am I right?

[@landrellone4701]

finally a video about both settings. I love both and like to use the ideas from nwod in owod campaigns. When you use both, there is no canon so you can create your own explanations for the links between them.

[@TheMapleTable]

Its honestly really easy to do. But I thought it was time to talk about both of them

[@timalice-2833]

Don’t be too hard on yourself about saying the god machine was old WoD. It was mentioned in the Book of the Weaver as the Machine God. In there they said it slept and was a part of the weaver. The book said it only stirred during times of great human technological change, such as the industrial revolution, but never fully awoke. The garou are concerned with the coming apocalypse that it will fully awaken and they aren’t sure how it will impact things. I don’t remember it being mentioned again though.

[@shaughn6017]

Demon the Fallen. 100%

[@TheMapleTable]

Classic

[@Xorkuss]

DtF being my favorite gameline of WoD ever (even with all the broken mechanics), I enjoyed the video!

[@kapmando]

“I don’t want to get into edition wars…” [slides a copy of the original d6 Vampire across the table]

[@TheMapleTable]

I admit, this video kinda begs to start an edition war

[@kapmando]

@@TheMapleTable nah. You have a relatively chill audience. I dunno how many Rein-Hagan paladins you’re gonna get.

[@MrSerfer11]

Demon the Fallen have the best lore in my opinion. I pray for 20 edition

[@TheMapleTable]

I hope so but I don't know if this will happen

[@MrSerfer11]

@@TheMapleTable I think the same but faith is what we need

[@Kageryushin]

Paradox has no idea what they're doing, really, so who knows if your prayers will ever be answered. They've let a few kinda phoned-in 20th Anniversary books get published since they snapped everything up, like Ghost Hunters and Sorcerer 20, but they've refused to greenlight new CofD books, probably because they don't want to compete against a superior gameline to their 5e garbage. In the meantime, the old DTF books are still great, and fundamentally compatible with the already released 20th anniversary books. They might be a little less stable and harder to parse, but I've played with Earthbound rules in a DAV20 game and it was rad.

[@Dhyfis]

Demon the Fallen is what I expected by the name and is what I wanted and prefer. That said, I do like Demon the Descent. It's just not what I was initially looking for when I picked it up. I like both New and Old World of Darkness and appreciate that they are distinct. Doesn't mean I can't mix them. I know that "translation guides" were made to help mix some of the old and world darkness stuff, particularly Mage, Werewolf, and Vampire.

[@TheRauzKindred]

There are things I like from both versions, and things I dislike in both versions of Old world and Chronicle. Mostly personal preferences, its why I like to cherry pick from both =)

[@johnshack3403]

Thanks for making this video. I agree that it doesn't really matter if you combine Old World of Darkness with Chronicles of Darkness, since it IS personal preference. I just wanted you to make a note about the differences so newcomers wouldn't be confused if they tried picking up a copy of World of Darkness only to find both lines of canon mucking up the waters, so to say.

[@TheMapleTable]

I hooe I got that part across

[@kirishiki1270]

I prefer DtD, because playing as a terminator in a Cold War is just wild. I do love both though!

[@yellowbelt]

I shifted over to chronicles due to the lore and some mechanical differences. I very much enjoy Requiem compared to Masquerade.

[@ComingSoonEntertainment]

Good explanation of both the differences between the demon lines and the game lines as a whole. I will say New World of Darkness does have some interesting lore. The line was launched back in 2004 as a way to continue World of Darkness after their "end of the world" plot. The line eventually grew and evolved into what we now call Chronicles of Darkness. At least VTM doesn't have the vampiric, shadow owls that seek the destruction of all life like VTR does... The strix scare me.

[@mrslasher1064]

Finally somebody that talks about WoD without playing favorites or picking sides,i've always just thought the two universes were pretty much the same,at the table my friends considered both WoD anf C of D one shared universe,so we have Prometheans fighting Werewolves and Vampires forming pacts with Beasts and Geists,embrace the chaotic nature of this setting and don't take it too seriously,after all a game is just for the sake of fun in the end

[@jarlupathingy7260]

I personally like the decent. More unique to me

[@TheMapleTable]

It does have an interesting mythos

[@notcreativeside]

The art at 3:05 or so is the cover for the 4th edition of Kult: Divinity Lost. It's quickly become my favorite game to run and you might find it interesting too.

[@mynameisd2849]

I dont really see old WoD and CofD as editions just different settings, or takes on the World of Darkness, which makes it even funnier for me that people whine about it, like; bro its just a different thing it didint replace it, they co.exist at the same time

[@theOriginalS.P.]

Back in the day when the nWoD (now CofD) started people were very commissioned and emotional about it, because many had the feeling someone would take something away from them. If WoD had achieved something then that people strongly resonated with one or some of the “factions” and in nWoD/CofD most of them weren’t the same anymore. Today the animosities are over. Most people might prefer one or the other but don’t bother the others existence. You really need to dig deep to find any “edition warring” between oWoD and nWoD anymore. Older Editions and 5th Edition, though, entirely different story. It seams to calm down slowly, but its still something people can get quite passionate about.

[@s.m.g.2166]

Awesome videos as always dude, keep em coming!!!

[@bladeb2001]

Honustly I get the mix up demon the fallen is a lot of fun and I love the worship and cult aspect but I also adore the building your own life cyborg demon in the descent

[@williamchristy9463]

It's not edition wars though-- it's literally different games, entirely. Are you talking about computer-people, or abrahamic demons? There *are* editions-- for example, VtM has multiple different editions of the game-line. But VtR isn't VtM.

[@ed.glez.r]

Thanks for sharing this video, i love both system but something that make me choose CofD instead WoD for my main storytelling settings and system is that CofD was created for mix supernatural creatures (thats why we have the contagion chronicles or dark eras books), im not saying that you cant do it in WoD but CofD helps you with this.

[@blaqueup]

The lore thing is interesting since when CofD started, it had lore out the gate. It just presented that lore differently, mostly with a lot more mystery on things like deep history and such. Or had just really different lore. Werweolf and Mage weren't loreless, they just werne't WoD's lore. I think the "There's no lore" is more actually "There's no lore I like" more often than not when I see that complaint. EDIT: Kind of also, I think a bit of athing is that weirdly, CofD was written with a more shared world in mind, at least mechancially, than WoD. The lines are actually kind of less stand-alone as they build on a lot of shared mechancis and are easier to important things from one-naother. But the lack of a metaplot/global plot kind of is what made them probably seem more separate. But especially in CofD 2e, there's a lot of cross-over support in things like the Dark Eras book, the Contagion Chronicles, and the support for supernaturals showingup in ohter groups like werewolf packs or Mages with the Hedge.

[@Youhaveaname]

I like both Fallen and Descent about equally. It took a while for me to get a grasp about what DtD is and when a friend told me it's kinda like Shadowrun in CoD it clicked. You wont win a war against the God Machine, but you can win battles and damage it for your own ends. Forsaken I also enjoy as you stand to have deep player growth, who were you before the fall? Who is your host? How does you deal with your hosts memories and emotions that are alien to you? Do you try and muster arms against the Heavens to strike at the creator once more? Or do you try and see the error of your ways and seek out redemption for past transgressions?

[@JBPazos]

Man, the Old World of Darkness resonates with me so much more in general over the NWOD or COD.

[@Mirthrall]

Something Id like to mention; the CofD splats are incredibly cross friendly. Moreso than WoD as Onyx took that into consideration when writing CofD 2nd editions. Otherwise great video! Cant wait to see new videos covering CofD.

[@LihimSidhe]

Hey man! Been liking your vids. You can tell you’re going far if you keep this up when you’re laying on your bed for new shots; you’re leaving no stone unturned! I started playing WoD about 20 years ago. So OLD school. And the OGL fiasco has caused me to return to the world of ttrpgs in a new way. Mage: The Ascension is what really showed me what ttrpgs can be. From what I gather on the forums and my own observations are that oWoD has the better lore and setting but CofD has the better, more streamlined mechanics. However, I do think the Demon: The Descent has more interesting lore than Fallen. Also as someone returning to ttrpgs and various ‘x of darkness’ lines, Paradox Interactive is doing no one any favors with these confusing split lines. “Oh you want to play Vampire? Do you mean Vampire 5e, Vampire 20, or Vampire: The Requiem?” It used to never be this confusing. It used to be just ‘Vampire: The Maquerade’ and how close to Gehenna/Apocalypse/Ascension/etc. we were getting. Always 11:59 but never quite 12:00. Keep being a nerd and I’ll keep watching! :)

[@TheMapleTable]

Finally! Someone acknowledged the bed shots!

[@TheAudacityOfHopefulHearts]

I like mixing and matching editions into my own spooktacular world of darkness though I do lean heavily on the 20th Anniversary Edition and go for Fallen updated to those standards. Then again I am someone far less interested in any sort of balance as much as I am about the ability to experience a cool story so I allow the Baali Abomination to serve as the Demon's Thrall because I think the players make that sort of OP nonsense a fun experience 😄

[@johnwalsh4857]

I love both. WOD and NWOD

[@TheMapleTable]

They are pretty neat

[@thevoid2117]

I had collected a lot of the 1st edition New World of Darkness prior to Onyx Path taking over with the 2nd editions. I didn't want to further invest and buy books all over again. Yes the Onyx Path versions were more accessible to new players, no arguments there. The GMC rules and theme never caught my interest. I had originally moved to Nwod to get away from the Owod metaplot. Then when GMC-God Machine Chronicles, the reason for Onyx Path named Chronicles of Darkness, was a new metaplot and it completely tanked my interest. I prefer now the X5 lines of current Old world, because there has been an overhaul of metaplot where you can either ignore it or take little elements such as the V5 Loresheets as pertaining to one's game. Everyone will like different aspects of any of the editions or be drawn to them. Chronicles of Darkness was just personally not for me. I did like Demon the Fallen but it suffered from being released towards the latter end of the Owod line and did not get as much support in sourcebooks.

[@alessandrocurti1648]

well, the god machine is a good idea, and no one say that the cristian god and the god machine they can both exist at the ''same time'' the idea of the angel is this program is really cool.

[@TheMapleTable]

Technically they both could exist which is a thought I like.

[@verticalflats2816]

Are you going to do videos like this comparing the differences between new and versions like vampire and werewolf?

[@TheMapleTable]

Its a good idea since the world of darkness is quite complex

[@verticalflats2816]

@The Maple Table That and no crossover for Wraith Beast Deviant and some smaller things.

[@tubelemming]

Its okay Nathaniel; through KZbin you overcome the ADHD to a minor extent and your content is a top notch man. Keep on with the awesome lore.

[@TheMapleTable]

I don't talk about it much on my channel but absolutely it effects me :p thanks though

[@dlaserus]

I have been playing rpg's since the mid 90's. And there is a difference between an edition change, and what happened between old world and new. I have taken part in the transition from 2nd ed dnd to 5th. And with each, the mechanics change, but the kinds of stories you can tell don't. You might need to make some minor tweaks, but generally, I have seen/told the same kind of games during each edition. However, this was not true between old world and new. What made old world so appealing was not that you could play things like vampires and werewolves (I ran a game of Mutants and Masterminds that had both of these). It is that everything from the mechanics to the lore helped you tell a kind of story that has harder to tell in other games. Namely, how do you hold on to your humanity when dealing with what you have become / should you even want to. With new world, the stated design goal was to make the game less about that, and more like a general supernatural fiction game. You are no longer a monster, you are now a superhero that just happens to drink blood. Take the change in Demon for instance. In the fallen, you have to struggle not just between your good and evil sides. But on whether or not you are even evil, or just a righteous freedom fighter. And when does that cross over to evil? You are now just a freedom figher with special powers. They said that they thought that this is what people wanted. And in order to tweak new world to be able to play an old world style game, you would be playing old world with a few new elements, rather than new world with a few tweaks.

[@dlaserus]

By the way Modiphius Entertainment has been hitting it out of the park with v5. But they have likewise missed the point with the new Hunter the Reckoning.

[@orathaic]

The date you stated for chronicles of darkness is misleading. 1st edition of those games was released close to 2005/6 but it was released simply as World of Darkness (because the stopped publishing the Old World of Darkness games at that point as each had built up to an apocalypse - kinda a corner they had painted themselves into). 2nd edition was rebranded as Chronicles of Darkness at around the date you stated, and eventually as the 2nd edition of those games (rather than the God Machine Chronicles... I think) as World of Darkness games began to get new editions (currently on their 5th edition). Chronicles are also currently not getting any more books approved. And it looks like that up is being left to die.

[@synapse0]

As an avid player of both WoD and CofD, i agree that the lore is shallower, but the systems are much, much better suited to mixing them together. There's quite some value there.

[@zacharyhawley1693]

Personally I use what I like from both from. I know you're going to enjoy Beast The Primordial when you eventually cover it for sure. My personal fav is the one that breaks rich people's windows for power lol. I unabashedly am one those who do their best to crossover all of world of darkness. Demon The Fallen I always do narratively first. Because they are the first and its always a treat for vampire and werewolf players to learn just how powerful an Earthbound can be. Cause yes, in Demon the Fallen it always can get worse Earthbound is that end result.

[@TheMapleTable]

I do love the crossovers

[@RobertCharlesW]

I thought I heard that World of Darkness was designed to have separate universes and Coracles of Darkness was designed to have a shared universe. Am I mistaken?

[@williamchristy9463]

No, that's correct. The multi-splat games in OWoD are mashing multiple games together, against the design of any one of those games-- This fan drive to combine the games is *why* the CofD is designed to allow multiple different splats to play in the same game. Though, technically, from the lore angle, the universes are either shared, or appear to be shared. The metaphysics of the universes of the OWOD is all the same, even if different factions talk about different things in different language. Likewise, there's a somewhat-consistent metaplot between the various releases. But then, OWOD thrives on the information being presented being hearsay, conjecture, and rumor-- and many of the different game-lines monsters don't know much about each other.

[@KOkami03]

William covered most of it, but there is another important difference regarding the universes is that CoD was designed to be much more sandbox than WoD, hence why the lack of "canon" lore in CoD when compared to WoD. In fact, each supernatural has stereotypes regarding other supernaturals as a whole. I'll quote the Werewolf the Forsaken 2nd edition book as an examples: Werewolves (specifically Blood Talons) on Vampires: Creepy dead bastards do half our work for us. That and maybe a small blerb about Werewolves general opinion of Vampires, but that will be about it. They're still a shared universe, but the relationships between various Supernatural denizens are not hardcoded.

[@Kageryushin]

This is gonna be a doozy. oWoD was *always* meant to be a single unified setting. Anyone who says otherwise only knows the basic premises of each game without having read them and how they approach the other splats. It is easy, if you don't understand how each gameline's perspective fits in with the others, to mistake the arrangement of the setting's cosmology; the Penumbra and Vidare are particularly confusing. But they were always meant to be fundamentally compatible, even if each gameline focused on their own content. There was a distinct roadmap of cosmological lore that Mark Rein-Hagen (the original concept creator of the WoD, probably most notably VTM, WTA, and the not-technically-oWoD Ars Magica, which was the conceptual basis of MTAsc) had planned out from the beginning, and which most of the lead devs were aware of in some capacity. This includes perhaps most prominently Rich Dansky (primarily known as lead dev of Wraith, but worked on pretty much every gameline at some point or another), as well as Phil Brucato (lead Mage dev for most of its history) and almost certainly Richard Thomas (the current CEO of Onyx Path), although how actually involved in writing stuff as opposed to just directorial duties Thomas was is kind of dubious. So there is *a fuckton* of crossover content in the oWoD. Necromancy in VTM is _very_ clearly designed to interact with the Underworld exactly as described in Wraith The Oblivion. Mage uses "Gnosis" and "Rage" in their middle umbra spirit rules, adopting them from Werewolf despite those traits not existing for mages (to say nothing of mage's metaphysical essence triad reflecting WTA's Triat). The signature Arcanoi of the Haunters in WTO, Pandemonium, is explicitly derived from the power of the Wyld from WTA. Werewolf, Wraith, and Changeling all very explicitly acknowledge the Technocracy's effect on the Gauntlet. Pretty much every gameline mentions the primordial Abyss/Void at the bottom of the Underworld. This is to say nothing about the historical and metaplot interactions between the splats. Samuel Haight exists. oWoD is definitely a single interconnected setting. So, while on a superficial reading the oWoD gamelines seem to posit utterly incompatible cosmologies and metaphysics, they actually do fit together at their fundamental basis. There are numerous seeming contradictions between each gameline that each one explains or elucidates a given splat's perspective on. You would be surprised at how often the oWoD writers managed to nail the minutiae of a splat in a different gameline. On the other hand, there is some inconsistency in places largely because of misunderstandings from freelance writers (Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand, for example). I could go into much more detail about this if you'd like. As to Chronicles of Darkness and its previous iteration, new World of Darkness, they're an interesting and just as complex case. What it comes down to is that the nWoD/CofD gamelines were approached with a much more "toolbox" mentality where you could take or leave qualities of the setting as you pleased. Furthermore, although the Dark Eras supplements gave plenty of options in this regard (none of which are strictly canon, granted), there is far less established history and thus far less canon interaction between the splats. Most of the gamelines tend to stick to themselves by default... but that doesn't need to be the case in your CofD game, because again, it's a toolbox setting. If you want to mix your peas and your potatoes, but leave out the asparagus, you can if you want. Honestly, oWoD worked like this in practice too, since it all depends on the table, but it was a lot less careful about how it carried this lore. But the thing about nWoD/CofD is that it was all based around a singular corebook, and no matter the gameline, you could always expect, say, spirits/ephemeral entities to be statted out in fundamentally the same way. Ultimately, though, while all the CofD gamelines acknowledge the others to an extent (there's blurbs in the 1e corebooks about how they think of each other when they cross paths, for instance), there is actually considerably less lore crossover in practice, and when it exists, it is certainly less emphasized. For example, there are two Kindred conspiracies in the VTR book Danse Macabre, The Children of the Thorns and Holy Engineers, which are, respectively, meant to potentially tie in to Changeling The Lost and the concept of the God-Machine which would eventually lead to Demon The Descent. Lore like this which outright connects to other gamelines is really quite rare, so it's always couched in terms of "this is the idea here, but it might be something entirely different in your game." There's a lot of shit like that, like the Tengu potentially being VTR''s Strix in WTF 2e's corebook, but the book goes out of its way to neither confirm nor deny it. There's a whole lot more shit, like how MTAw's Arcadia isn't the same shit as CTL's Arcadia, but now I'm digressing. That all in mind, it bears mentioning that there are certain factors which are very ubiquitous and consistent between all the gamelines. This is obvious when it comes to everything in the nWoD/CofD corebook(s) and arguably all of the splat-agnostic nWoD publications, but I think is more significant when it comes to things like, say, the Hototogisu, a Hunter The Vigil conspiracy which is touched upon in multiple gameline corebooks (because Tokyo was explored for multiple splats in the early days of CofD). HTV is a particularly interesting case, really, because it is simultaneously the splat that most readily crosses over with all the others, and yet has multiple books tailored to giving you simplified replacement mechanics for those other splats if you don't want to use their books. lol. lmao. Basically, oWoD is a mess of a singular interconnected setting and CofD is a toolbox of many potentially interconnectable parts.

[@KOkami03]

@@Kageryushin You forgot Hunter the Vigil, quite a few Compacts and Conspiracies are tied into the other lines. Granted, Hunter the Vigil is the most toolbox of the toolboxes, and the books make it clear that Hunters rare have all the information at their disposal.

[@Kageryushin]

@@KOkami03 I actually ended up editing in a section at the end about HTV before I saw your reply, funnily enough.

[@derkrischa3720]

I didn't have a chance jet to play either of tthese two, I have just listened to lore videos here on Yt. But I think it's hilarious that in Fallen the Angle War only started because of a certain farmer, that killed his brother. Caine being the root of so much supernatural struggle is funny in a twisted kind of way. Right now I can link him with Vampires(duh), Werewolfes(The red man) and demon(first murder turning the war violent). For Mage and Wraith I have jet to find it but I'm sure there propably is a link

[@LordReginaldMeowmont]

Actually, I think you got something backward. CofD was made specifically so that you can play different splats together, and they have a shared world. The stats and lore of 2e reflect this. Each WoD game was originally stand-alone with later editions trying to make cross-splat play available, and it's difficult. They also disagree on lore a lot to the point they feel like different settings. A good example is demons in DtF compared to demons in VtM. They are wildly different in tone.

[@noahegler9131]

He actually says it both ways in the video, so I totally get why you are confused. I think it was a script writing error. ADHD can make editing hard. Given the overall context of the video, I think he meant that 2e was designed for cross-platform play.

[@kevinbush3885]

thanks

[@TheMapleTable]

Np

[@TheFiretiger]

Honestly... CofD and oWod are both awesome, and awesome for different reasons. They are almost remixes and counterpoints to each other, and make this stark interesting compare and contrast back and forth. They are not the same game. Not the same universe. They are drastically different games using similar ideas and similar systems under the hood. I want to RUN CofD games and play in oWoD games. That being said... I'm not a big fan of v5 stuff, I don't really like it, but I don't have to use it. I'll stick with what I want to run as a game master, and play as a player.

[@robertsmall8919]

I find Chronicles of Darkness runs more splats better then World of Darkness because of the streamlining that they have done and a lot less openly hostile lore between the different splats. I am all for taking some lore from each, I have plans to use the Wyrm for instance in a Hunter the Vigil game, but I also think it is important to be very clear on "What I run" vs "What is standard". World of Darkness lore can be rather crazy, overbearing or cartoonish at time (I personally hate villains that are evil for being evil or crazy such as the Black Spiral Dancers). I never played Demon the Fallen and it works for how Christian the World of Darkness is. I have run Demon the Decent. From what I have heard I would probably like the techno spiritualism spy thriller of Demon the Decent more the Demon the Fallen, but that is once again based off of what I have heard about Demon the Fallen.

[@demonic_myst4503]

Incorect cheonicles exist in a shared universe demon the decent stayes this outright and so does beast the prinordial where it states that the beasts find kindshioxwith vampires and werwolfs But hate unchained

[@MrNetWraith]

One mistake I feel you make here is describing the Chronicles' individual gamelines as all being independent. That's true of both the World and Chronicles gamelines. However, Chronicles is *much* more crossover-friendly, due to its settings having much vaguer and abstract "backstories" that don't actively contradict each other or which can easily be placed side-by-side, as each gameline only has a small piece of the setting pie. The World of Darkness, in contrast, has much more strictly defined backstories for each individual gameline, which can make justifying their co-existence much harder. Vampire the Masquerade and Demon the Fallen both take very strong and explicit basis from Judeo-Christian mythology - but Werewolf the Apocalypse centers around a paganistic world that combines a Creator/Preserver/Destroyer trinity of arch-deities loosely similar to Hinduism with blatant animism, and this doesn't mesh with VtM or DtF at all.

[@kfphunter1315]

In the World of Darkness, it is believed that all mythology is combined with each other. Details and explanations are left to the narrator. This system is also flexible, but in its own way

[@verticalflats2816]

There is a third camp, the 5th edtionists. Theu don't beleive in either new or old 😂

[@TheMapleTable]

Lol

[@uglyweirdo1389]

Hells yeah dude. Grognards are fragile af and your handling of it is baller.

[@dantedetoussaint209]

One word. Owod rules.

[@TheMapleTable]

I think thats 5 lol

[@ZombieNikuchan]

Demon the fallen all the way!

[@TheMapleTable]

Old wod

[@rodrigobueno8652]

Demon is the only non main 3 i like both equaly, i usualy think cod made the non main better in general. But i think is important to say that even the lore of WoD is a lot more devleoped in general and mroeintegrad, isntead makign eerything free to the dm as cod, CoD rules are a lot more crossover friendly than wod

[@Sempermortis84]

Old wod is so much better imo.

[@TheMapleTable]

I like the interconnectedness of the games. Its what drew me to them

[@Sempermortis84]

@@TheMapleTable yeah, and the lore and the mythology all that stuff. It feels like it's of Epic scale. Mostly because it is. Cryptic slayers are my favorite.

[@jamesdeek7039]

Old world will always be better

[@Betuins]

I knew Onix were the ones responsible of making this game such a pansy lore now, seriously with or with out Achilli they should never publish a white wolf game in their life, sissy chronicles of darkness

[@88Grabarz]

I really hope Demon the Fallen will get new ("5th") edition. I'm just afraid that political correctness will destroy it really :/

[@TheMapleTable]

If it gets a 5e it will be along the same line as Vampire and hunter

[@88Grabarz]

I put my hopes in upcoming Werewolf the Apocalypse. Art so far does not look bad so not all is lost ;D If WtA will keep his "spirit" then there is hope for DtF

[@TheMapleTable]

I am optimistically cautious about W5

[@theOriginalS.P.]

I would not hold my breath for it. It was one of the least popular games and the focus on abrahamic mythology makes it quite hard to make it fit in the approch they recently went with. If there would ever be a D5 it would be probably similarly "reimagined" as W5 will be.

[@theOriginalS.P.]

Why? Why? Why? Every time! First of all, it is great that you have done these video to address the mistake, but you unfortunately missed some major points again. To say the DtD Demons are fallen angels is not wrong, but it is also not right either, since there is simply no haven and no god in a traditional sense. The God-Machine is a literal Machine and Angels are its Agents and Subroutines. Demons fall for the reasons you mentioned, but that doesn’t happened in a long ago past but happens when ever a system, an Angel, falls for one reason or another out of the grid of the God-Machine. The issue is, that the God-Machine wants to reintegrate the Demons aka, kill them and use their spare parts to make something new from them. The Demons, understandably, mostly don’t want to be killed. And that is why they hide and act against the God-Machine. You furthermore seem to be confused about the Chronicles of Darkness and “new” World of Darkness. A simple researcher would have told you that the original WoD was discontinued 2004 and replaced by the “new” WoD. That was a long time before Onyx Path even existed. When Paradox bought the WhiteWolf IPs and decided to reintroduce the original WoD, they changed the name of the new WoD to CofD (it is CofD btw, not CoD!) to avoid confusions. It is that easy! Also, no, most people don’t get mad because they are of one camp or the other, both are interesting and good game lines in their own right, people just get upset if things get mixed up and confuse new players because then we, the other players and STs need to disappoint them when they come with wrong expectations. It is realy no problem to talk of what ever you like, but please just dont spread wrong information. You can even say where something comes from and then explain how you would use it in the other universe and how you would make it fit in and give your videos this way even additional value! Still glad that you did that, but please, get your facts straight!

[@KieranOklahoma]

This is a very bad take on DtD. The new version is not about Good and Evil, it's about surviving in a high tech, super 1984 authoritarian dystopia that permeates the world while no human even knows it exists. It's about about trying to appear as a normal person while you are a biomechanical super spy who will be broken down for parts if you trust the wrong person. It's not gothic horror at all.

[@JamesBrown-fb1dy]

I've always thpight that the god machine would be a great addition since the technocracy has qltered reality so much that the architect is gone and only the machine remains. This demons from either setting can exist. Some from the fall and some from when the angels rebelled against the reformation of reality. The 6th maelstrom frees the fallen and the unchained exist witb them in a sort of uneasy alliance to "fix" creation.