Designing a unique Box Wing Plane for VTO and Waterlanding Pt.1

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[@fullsendmarinedarwin7244]

This would make a cool ground effect (over water) vehicle for people that don't have a pilots licence

[@gibstera5580]

I'm excited to see the progression. Thank you for sharing.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Thanks for your interest

[@thecatofnineswords]

Intriguing little plane. Looking forward to seeing it evolve and fly.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

So are we! There may be some serious challenges to overcome, but that is the fun of a new design😉

[@RA-gk5zg]

I love it. Thanks for showing us your design process.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Thanks for your interest!

[@CatamaranCatamaran]

I think this is a really cool idea, I would like to try printing one off. But I cant find any mention of it on your website. Am I missing it somewhere? Your info in the description says the stls are on your website.

[@renerosentraeger]

Soon ✈️

[@ronlokk]

Wow, that plane design is just super!

[@a.h.5413]

Looks good. In Order to keep everything dry id suggest mounting the rudder Servo in the top wing or leave it out completly and use differential throttle for easy on water steering.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Thanks for the suggestion. We opted for the internal fuselage mounted design for our “dry” first experimental version. Our plans for the water version will involve a redesigned deeper “hull” for more buoyancy and water clearance. We first need to see if my original concept actually flies 😉

[@a.h.5413]

@@marcphilippveenendaal4394 everything with enugh controlled thrust flies. Even a brick 😁

[@GregoryDoan]

I really like this model, I was just over at the website and you have not got it up over there yet. But I am really can wait for it to come to life on the printer I own. Keep up the great work you two. And be safe out there.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Thanks, yes we are still developing the design. Not much longer to go. We will be posting our first flights and trials and then if the design is successful, we will finalise for purchase in our site 😉

[@TheMalootrager]

Another strange suggestion for you to try René is this, are you familiar with the Japanese Kyushu J7W Shinden? Its the rear engine rear wing canard foghter plane, my suggestion is making a twin engine Shinden, i think that be an interesting concept to try

[@aldocosta1220]

Beautiful project and job

[@rjung_ch]

This is looking really nice, out of the ordinary, that's for sure. Cheers 👍💪✌

[@davidaugustofc2574]

I made something similar in Spaceflight Simulator, but it was a backwards reentry prototype. The Bottom of the wings was the heatshield and it would re-enter the atmosphere pointing upwards. I had loads of fun with that before an update in 2021 added engine heat damage, as the engines were fully protected by heatshields as well.

[@ricardosouza1273]

Awesome design, but I’m in doubt about the VTOL operation, the motor aren’t aligned with de GC, what means that will have a momentum around the transversal axis

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

We plan for the rear control surfaces to be in full upward deflection to counter the momentum. Our test flights will demonstrate if our plans work out in reality.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

P.S. We should have actually called it VTO and dropped the L - 😉

[@andrebenk476]

Es geht nichts über deine Su-XR Plus , aber auf dieses Projekt freue ich mich schon 😊🤙Danke für die coole Arbeit

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Keine Problem! Wir freuen uns auch! Kann aber sehr interessant oder problematisch werden…😬

[@wookieiam1]

You have to work into the fuselage a step so the plan can clear the suction of water on the smooth fuselage.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

This is our hard surface landing design. Our water landing version will have a deeper and stepped hull for better buoyancy and water clearance…

[@kuraigasone]

Everytihng is look so cool hope we don't wait too much for this masterpiece

[@srinivassiddarth]

Every thing looks so perfect. But can't you try to design a quad copter drone, with the same or modified design that can land on both water and land? 👍🌹

[@TheMalootrager]

Hear me out that wing 🪽 configuration attached to a copy of your JRM-01 VTOL jet what you think 🤔 René?

[@renerosentraeger]

Nice!

[@TheMalootrager]

@@renerosentraeger 🤠👍

[@mp7986]

if you did any CFD simulations or stability calculations how's it performing in terms of stability? especially pitch momentum and propeller vortex influence on the wings is what i'm curious about. Also i see possible risk of rudder and upper wing control surfaces ineffectivness at high AOA, is this something you would think that a concept like this could face? Thanks and have a nice day

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

The beauty of an experimental aircraft. CFD was done in 2018 on the main wing and not the most recent design. It will be a suck and see project. Let’s see if we can pull it off…

[@mp7986]

@@marcphilippveenendaal4394 thanks for the quick reply, i will follow your project with curiosity!

[@NotShuba]

Cool design but if its gonna land in the water im worried about the draft. How much of the plane will be under water.

[@moochasas]

Awesome model, slick looking...... but a question.... why not put separate servos on the rudders so you can have airbrakes..... 2 servos back to back would be ideal.....

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

At this point we are considering weight. The top wing and engine nacelles will make the aircraft too heavy so minimising weight and keeping as much low down is a priority. We will test, trial and optimise 😉

[@siavashgoudarzi4056]

This project looks very interesting. What is the purpose of upper wings?

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Something different 😂

[@m14srv]

Looks great I just with the top wing structure was lower profile

[@emotodude]

Super cool looking aircraft. Is the closure of the fuselage a bit abrupt for the air flow to stick?

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Won’t know until we try 😉

[@gafrers]

Amazing. Looking forward to it

[@Barzar100]

Incredible

[@michiganengineer8621]

Maybe it would have added too much weight to the model, but did you consider two servos for the center upper wing control surfaces? With the mixing available in modern radios you could have the outer surfaces as pure aileron and the center surfaces mixed as elevons.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Weight is a big consideration and we are also going to rely on differential thrust from the 2 motors for control. We will see how this goes. Key word in this project is - EXPERIMENTAL!

[@TheMalootrager]

I'm curious René have you seen Stargate series because there's a fighter craft call the F-302 which is a pretty cool looking aircraft, I was thinking it be interesting for you to make a RC jet with a similar design and shape. That's just my opinion

[@renerosentraeger]

I'll think about that!

[@TheMalootrager]

@@renerosentraeger Ok, Yay 🥳

[@KalibasauRC_64]

Amazing

[@trailswithtyler7427]

Cool! Love what you guys are doing. Btw I filled out a contact form a while back on your website asking a few questions about the JRM junior. If you get a chance to look at it that would be great. Basically asking if there’s a wiring diagram anywhere and a few other questions about the assembly process. Thanks in advance

[@renerosentraeger]

Hi, we put some assistance sketches on the download area on aerojtp.com for wiring on your rx: one servo to ail one to elevator and activate delta mix in your TX.

[@trailswithtyler7427]

@@renerosentraeger Thanks for the reply. I don’t know if I’m looking in the wrong place or something but i still can’t find it. It might be because im looking on my phone so i will try again tomorrow on a computer and see if i can find it

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

It would be interesting if it could VTO and VL.

[@Artcraftcreations-y6s]

hi...i like the design...looks a little tail heavy...can be made affordable...widen fuselage for landing gear...never know till you try... the best of luck to you...

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Thanks! We will have to wait and see where this takes us!

[@XavierEduardoRuizCruz]

you´re genius, thanks for sharing

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Thanks for your kind words and support! Wouldn’t go as far as genius - just 2 passionate aviation enthusiasts doing what they like doing 😉

[@gfabasic32]

Interesting project!

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

We thought so too!

[@christofschafer3921]

Nice design, can it transfered to a Waterplane.?

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

That is our plan…

[@trailswithtyler7427]

⁠ Hey, I’m having trouble finding those assistance sketches for the wiring of the jrm junior that we were talking about in another comment. I don’t know if I’m looking in the wrong place or something but i still can’t find it, didn’t appear to be in that download section of the website

[@tetronaut88]

this looks epic

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Thanks! We are crossing our fingers she flies like we expect 😬

[@SS-hz4jo]

Nice

[@riccardo1796]

what servos do you use? they look so tiny, i always have trouble hiding 9g servos in ways that don't ruin the design

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

The servos look so tiny because the aircraft is so big 😂. You’ll need to ask Rene about the RC side of things 😂. I’m just the CAD and design guy…😂

[@WernerBeroux]

VTOL and water landing makes it an interesting plane just to take off in less common places. I'm not a fan of printing props though.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

It will be tailored to Vertical take off and water landings. Not sure yet how we will go with water takeoff and water landing. Also, we plan to use off the shelf performance props! No prop printing here!

[@WernerBeroux]

@@marcphilippveenendaal4394 water landing seems sufficient. I'll look out for videos to see when it's published

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

@@WernerBerouxawesome! We are curious as well to see if what we have planned works as advertised 😉

[@WernerBeroux]

​@@marcphilippveenendaal4394I guess making it waterproof becomes critical. Epoxy or TPU can make it water tight, but I heard that DIAMANT Dichtol is a lot more reliable and makes it even gas tight. If you could use standard motors like 2207 or X2212 1250Kv, it'd make the build easier.

[@jorbedo]

Wing too low in the water, it will interfere the airflow, you will need a flat lake to takeoff. At least you need to create a minimum of ground effect.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

This is our hard surface landing design. Our water landing fuselage will have modified hull to deal with exactly that 😉

[@haxi52]

Worried about prop wash over the control surfaces?

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Not yet 😂

[@gsestream]

how about vtol seaplane instead, the usual term is vtol. unless you really want to stir it.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Oh man, we’ve been there. Was VTOL and we corrected it as technically it does not land vertically. So now we are staying with VTO….

[@gsestream]

@@marcphilippveenendaal4394 oh lol ok. STOL seaplane? also could you not turn vertically to land vertically?

[@4DCResinSmoker]

So how is this VTOL exactly ?

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

When we uploaded we should have left off the “L” 😉

[@4DCResinSmoker]

@@marcphilippveenendaal4394 Not what i was asking... How will this vertically take off using motors that are mounted above the frame as part of the box wing? Sure while its possible to claim short take-off and landing, vertical take off doesn't appear possible with this configuration.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

@@4DCResinSmoker it will stand on its tail and given full throttle and some back stick 😉

[@4DCResinSmoker]

@@marcphilippveenendaal4394 Your going to find out that the location of the motors will not be idea for this unless you've some means to pitch the blades. Point blank, your center of mass is offset from your center of thrust, which will cause your craft to tumble end over end from a standing start. Now as for providing backstick, we'll see. Though I'm thinking it wouldn't be enough to prevent the craft from tumbling.

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

@@4DCResinSmoker that’s the fun of an experimental - lots can be learned…

[@SanjayGupta-jv9zc]

How is this a VTOL... It still uses water surface as runway ...to take off

[@dunkermitcell83]

Real plane or a toy?

[@renerosentraeger]

Real toy.

[@vrosi1963]

design a v22 osprey

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

Ahhh, OK?

[@ФаритМухаев]

Выглядит эффектно Но недостатки схемы летающее крыло его портят Увы

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

You may be right, but we shall see. I hope you stick around for the results 👍🏻

[@TROUROCKS]

CG ???????

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

We have that in check 😉

[@shop970]

Imagine sitting on your butt. While a computer makes a printable ( unique ) model. When real life was always about working in a shop. Nonsense is a way of life. Progress is going backwards. Look at politics too.

[@andrewpark651]

What kind of program is this? I need one of these to design a catalog! Can you tell me, please?

[@renerosentraeger]

Solid Works

[@andrewpark651]

@@renerosentraeger Thank you...I'm looking at Solid.... but I'll have to break it...there are no free versions, I think.)))))))