Designing the longest range Electric Aircraft: The Solar Aircraft

[@debaustin2822]

???? What is the name of the plane on your cover picture for this KZbin video.... It has two solar wings and appears to be somewhat of a glider??? I was hoping it would be covered in the video... Which was great!. The idea called my interests because with two wings you can avoid the extremely long one wing glider and still get the surface area for solar capture.... Thank you keep up the videos.!!!

[@debaustin2822]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGSrf4CNmMeEnas

[@ElectricAviation]

@@debaustin2822 Its called the Eraole

[@bernie7159]

@@debaustin2822 Except the lift to drag ratio of the glider decreases markedly with shorter wings, and in this case you present double trouble. That's why gliders look like an albatross which have an L/D of 20. The Duo discus glider is 45 with 18m wings, my single discus 43 with shorter wings (15m). Moreover a motor glider in saw tooth mode, say this Duo, will fly 45km for every 1km height lost with its LD of 45. On the way you try to fly streets of lift (or adjust for least sink) A bi-glider won't be the best choice for that with a low LD.

[@thomascorbett2936]

@@ElectricAviation that's the one that looks interesting nor the other .

[@simeonhunter]

I flew the Sunseeker Duo with the owner and builder Eric Raymond in the summer of 2020; the drone footage you used at the end is from that trip. One thing about that aircraft is that you don’t need a headset; it’s absolutely silent. I’ve been theorizing about building a solar aircraft myself for years.

[@nakfan]

Wow...must have been a cool experience... Thanks for sharing and good luck with a future solar plane project 👍

[@philv3941]

I've seen footages from the inside : it's like a dream. It's not rethoric : i mean it's exactly as if you dream to fly silently between clouds under this ultrz wide glass ceiling. Fantastic, really. Just the annoying beep to indicate your altitude was a bit noisy.

[@ThreeWheelTherapy]

The planes based on sailplanes can shut down the motor and stow or feather the props, and use thermaling under pilot control. The charge time is constant so the range is greatly extended

[@burnsmatkin9606]

No. Solar is so weak, you actually think it would extend range in any significant way? Thermaling, as in riding the natural lift like a glider? I can see a 400 passenger plane thermaling. Is that even a word?

[@ThreeWheelTherapy]

@@burnsmatkin9606 apparently you are not aware of the newest updates to solar electricity generation materials. They are lighter and produce more electricity per square inch. That's being used many applications now. The roof panels on an rv can charge the batteries during the day so power is available all night. It is very impressive. There are many other applications of this tech out there. It does take moserate scaling to be useful.

[@msulemanf]

Really enjoyed this potted history of solar aircraft. Dense with facts and figures and nice production values without flashy padding. Brilliant - if only more of youtube was like this.

[@liamwinter4512]

I genuinely enjoy your content.

[@ElectricAviation]

Glad to hear it

[@markstevens1729]

“And with this, the video is concluded.” KZbin is not worthy of such direct language.

[@bromnader5196]

Yes I was shocked by such direct language. It's so offensive and colonialist. (sarcasm)

[@justinklenk]

Another awesome episode!! 👍 "Wehicles" etc - I'm lovin it! 👏

[@ElectricAviation]

Thanks again!

[@jietsedemars5531]

Your YT channel is sincerely underrated. I've been daydreaming about this since a while ago. The things I'm wondering are: - What will be the reduction in drag if an electric aircraft flies at an altitude of 18 km (same speed but higher range)? - What will be the multiplier of the solar panel efficiency at this level (is it linear with what you mentioned in the video)? - Will electric motors achieve higher efficiency levels due to the lower operating temperature (- 60 °C)? Anyway, I really love your channel as I share the same ideas/thoughts as you. Keep up the good work!!

[@pingnick]

Wow very engineering focused episode! Excellent!!

[@njm3211]

Very informative and well presented not to mention that I can actually hear the video without maximizing the volume and putting my ear to the speaker. Look forward to more content.

[@oxcart4172]

Fascinating! It will be incredible to see all the developments in EA over the coming years on this channel. Good luck!

[@hughwaller6789]

Thanks for the great information, and clear simple formulas.

[@dronurergun]

Maybe a solar powered hybrid airship would be better for cargo. A large surface area, less power requirement, better safety, meaningfull cargo capacity, autonomous operation...

[@willcall9431]

It’s good to see Rutan designs redesigned and used for modern material research and development purposes. Hopefully one day solar aircraft will be able to transition through the 200 knot airspeed envelope . That will be a game changer.

[@darnation8650]

If the next generation of batteries improve power density by 30%, and the solar panels improve to 40% efficiency, this becomes an exciting prospect for solar powered aviation.

[@ElectricAviation]

indeed

[@spdynamics]

Actually power density is already more than enough, it's gravimetric density that will deliver a step change, though not huge, it would have an impact.

[@Kimoto504]

Whenever someone says "watch till the end", I almost always stop watching entirely. Let the merit of your content and presentation keep the viewer's attention.

[@pctrashtalk2069]

A tandem wing layout like the Rutan Quickie designs with larger wings might be a good one since you wing span can be shorter.

[@nielsheesernielsen3614]

I had the same thought of converting a old plane that already offers very good efficiency and long range. The landing gear on the Quickie is also a cool solution for simplicity and efficiency. Also looking forward to see performance of the Aptera EV will actually be and how the consumption is will be compared to similar sized aircrafts.

[@ilkoderez601]

You have a really great channel. Definitely one of my top 10 favorite! THANK YOU

[@ElectricAviation]

Wow, thanks!

[@bernardthedisappointedowl6938]

Brilliant episode, thanks for all you hard work putting this together, excellent, ^oo^

[@Lovingkindness.]

9:57 Don’t forget the loss from angle of incidence. You only get the full potential when the PV cells are near perpendicular to the sun. You will have much less power generated than you mention.

[@EnlightenedSavage]

You don't need direct sunlight. The losses at most angles are not significant.

[@winfriedrijssenbeek1]

Very good explanation, and just one thought: today there are bifacial solar systems that can be placed vertically and allow for different configurations. Possibly interesting for typical quad drones?

[@ricardoimai966]

Amazing explanation, thanks for sharing

[@ElectricAviation]

Glad it was helpful!

[@macrumpton]

I would think that LTA craft like blimps and dirigibles would better than airplanes for solar. Google SolarShip for an example. They have a lot more surface area for solar panels, a cargo capacity that is actually useful unlike other solar planes, and they need far less power to stay aloft. They would also be able to easily go up into the jet stream for greater speed with little additional power usage. A solar aerial cruise ship is within our current technology, although cargo is probably a better use case since speed is not as much an issue. Perhaps a dirigible casino would be a early use case.

[@justinklenk]

Totally, man. 👍

[@DavidElzeitsinfill]

I certainly think they would but I think it's just the challenge of making something that is catharized as a "fixed wing aircraft" that is the idea. And like formula one race cars it's the advances in technology that are important and may be adopted in civilian aircraft.

[@markthomasson5077]

Exactly my thoughts. Now fill it with hydrogen, develop a solar cell that converts sunlight and moisture from the air into hydrogen and you have it.

[@dejayrezme8617]

Maybe you could combine that "Flying-V" airplane / flying wing aircraft with a blimp? Shape the blimp not ling a blimp but like a wing.

[@DavidElzeitsinfill]

@@dejayrezme8617 ya. I don't know if that somehow changes the design challenge but its a good idea to make a compressed helium ridged structure. This is an example of a blow up plane made decades ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXuQZaiNrLZofqM

[@z_actual]

You could consider flying in ground effect, which greatly reduces induced drag and the structural weight required for large wing spans. At around 33 lbs per hp a regular rectangle wing needs low aspect ratio or the machine simply climbs out of ground effect, which we don't want if any useful speed is sought. Another inspiration is in the same light is Chance Vought's V173, which used tip mounted propellers to counter tip vortices on a low aspect ratio wing planned around an adjusted circle (so AR of 1.27) which aligned all of the 25% chords in a straight line. Except here electric propulsion doesnt require extensive transmission that an IC powered machine required.

[@ElectricAviation]

Brilliant

[@dejayrezme8617]

I was just learning about WIG crafts today and am wondering if this could work with electric and solar! I am currently designing a solar powered trimaran cruiser which should work fine but only goes 6-8 knots. Which is fine for my purposes really, living aboard on a nice off-grid home with plenty of power for a comfortable home. But WIGs are kind of interesting. You'd fly much faster for shorter amounts of time and then recharge. I'd be totally fine with slower airplane speeds of 50 knots and larger wingspans for more solar power. But I'd like it at least to be suitable for traveling and camping like in a camper van. So maybe an interior space of 1.6m width and 4m length plus cockpit? Is that already crazy? Of course anchoring or docking at a marina then becomes a problem too. Also WIG can be classified as boats as long as they don't fly higher than 150m, so it would be easier to build and fly. And building yourself would be much more affordable to me.

[@stephenmabry2866]

Yes, a tandem wing design is the answer ( like Vahana ).

[@johndemeritt3460]

I'm not familiar with Vahana, but a derivative of the Beech Staggerwing design could be both very efficient and strikingly beautiful. The big problem here is not the technology, but innovation -- that is, convincing ordinary people that this is the best solution to a problem they have, and that this solution is something they can understand and afford. For the moment, a C-17-like aircraft with charging stations aboard -- probably solar-powered so you're not burning extra fuel to recharge people's batteries -- could change a lot of people's minds. After all, if they can simply drive their cars aboard the aircraft and drive them off at their destination, why bother with standard passenger planes?

[@stephenmabry2866]

@@johndemeritt3460 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKO5n5hparGIb7c Now you know.

[@fredbecker607]

If done right, they could do away with the tail surfaces. Make it more like a canard configuration.

[@RuslanDorfman]

@electricaviation Thank you for wonderful and informative content. I wonder how flying at low altitude (see "ekranoplane") can improve the range of electric flying boats

[@chubbymoth5810]

Very interesting. I hope to see more of such quality content, so subscribed to your channel.

[@dandaniels851]

Yes, very impressive but, WHERE WAS THE PLANE YOU USED IN YOUR TITLE THUMBNAIL??? all that intelligence disgraced with one deceptive move. Don't do it again...

[@TontNZ]

Please, please do something about the poor audio quality. Sounds like the microphone is meters away from you. Thanks!

[@bromnader5196]

Yes, I had to turn on the captions.

[@technomad9071]

love your vids! informative, friendly and easy to watch, good luck with the v's there very vexing

[@ElectricAviation]

Glad you like them!

[@kirkjohnson9353]

Very much enjoyed this video. Great work.

[@ElectricAviation]

Glad to hear it!

[@williambunting803]

Excellent production. Thank you.

[@ElectricAviation]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jbrownson]

Love your videos, thanks!

[@ElectricAviation]

Thanks for watching!

[@nathanchildress5596]

I think a cargo plane with a hybrid drivetrain using fuel for takeoff and gaining altitude with alternators to charge the batteries and using only electricity during cruise would be a great solution.

[@shahbazfawbush]

Better yet an electric booster unit that attaches to the electric plane which then helps the plane get to altitude and then detaches and returns to base.

[@markplain2555]

Fantastic video man. As a glider pilot - I look forward to flying the next gen solar powered crafts.

[@ElectricAviation]

You and me both!

[@andrewashmore8000]

Excellent video , thanks for making , some indepth info.

[@skydemon226]

I wonder weather a delta wing configuration would be more efficient, as an increase the surface area and a reduction in wing loading, therefore reducing the structural mass, reduce in drag at higher speeds. I very much enjoyed you presentation.

[@jacobdavidcunningham1440]

0:44 dang I gotta use integration? wolfram alpha will save me

[@carlost.9233]

Super informative! Thank you for making this!

[@generalinformation2159]

At 12:45 it would be good to clarify that your calculation assumes that induced drag coefficient is constant across all speeds.

[@pashakdescilly7517]

If glider design is the basis, well, a skilled pilot can use thermals and greatly increase range

[@simonbrooks6073]

Great video full of interesting facts.

[@tobuslieven]

2:06 What are the paper thin solar panels they're using here? I haven't been able to buy thin film panels whenever I've looked for them. Anyone know of a source?

[@ElectricAviation]

You can buy them from AliBaba website, with flexible substrate

[@thomasburnett4712]

Excellent informative video!

[@philliphunt9794]

Airships have been attractive repeatedly in aviation history. They sound like a good idea, but they have some built in disadvantages, most notably their susceptibility to adverse weather at lower altitudes, and their low speed. Will be interesting to see if this idea bears meaningful fruit in the future.

[@licencetoswill]

great story, keep them coming.

[@ElectricAviation]

Thanks, will do!

[@bennithomas8414]

Which is the best available solar powered a/c to fly around the world ?

[@500features]

15:10 - the saddest part of every of his videos 😞

[@DavidElzeitsinfill]

Love your videos. Always get a lot of good information and so many good ideas.

[@ElectricAviation]

Glad you like them!

[@jdm1105]

Thank you for your videos. Two points: One, the use of hybrid batteries and Ultra Capacitors. Two: charging systems, solar is good, but slow. Add into the mix a Q2 pulse motor generator from Quata Magnetics (based on Nikola Tesla U.S. Patent 685,957 and U.S. Patent 685958) - Apparatus for the Utilization of Radiant Energy, and the patent # GB191417811, 1915-05-13, BENITEZ CARLOS F (MX), System for the Generation of Electric Currents (using modern electronics). With all the above you could charge a Tesla Battery Pack, Theoretically under one hour. By splitting the pack as Carlos Benitez suggest, you charge Pack A while utilizing Pack B. And vise versa.

[@kevinh8936]

another great video! thanks!

[@ElectricAviation]

My pleasure!

[@MrMakulit1959]

Thanks for this video. Im a fan of anything that flies and the potential of electric planes just gets better and better. Im really loving solar planes and the idea of a fast fun solar day sailer powered sail plane is definitely an idea whose time has come.

[@JohnA000]

What a great idea, so glad that green energy is so efficient. So nobody flies at night. Just brilliant.😵

[@GuyBrushThriftnood]

What a nice guy! Informative and interesting

[@williamwilliam728]

What a wonderfully researched video. Thank you so much for the tutorial. This is a fabulous subject and every day it seems we are progressing towards a more efficient and cleaner form of aviation.

[@ElectricAviation]

Thank you for your appreciation

[@whoknows8225]

how well does it fly in the dark?

[@brentwalker8596]

Improved battery and solar cell technology can improve overall performance of these aircraft.

[@umvhu]

My knowledge and understanding of aeronautics is limited so what I say needs testing. Is it correct that (all things being equal) a canard aircraft is more aerodynamically effecient than more common configuration (control surfaces aft)?

[@sokolmihajlovic1391]

Ty bro for your remarkable work.

[@zero-ff]

Out of all the aircrafts, the application of solar cells/film and more energy-dense battery systems on powered gliders seems perfectly feasible. Thank you so much for all the super informative videos. Love from Andaman and Nicobar islands, India 💖. Looking forward to new videos. Loved the videos on eVTOLs as well.

[@D.u.d.e.r]

Thank you for making this video👍

[@ElectricAviation]

My pleasure 😊

[@RichardRParsons]

Great video. You may also be interested in covering Zephyr by Airbus in future videos on this topic. They seem to be doing interesting work in this area.

[@ElectricAviation]

I met the people who were involved in the Zephyr project about 4 years ago. They had just completed the Zephyr2 flight and achieved a record. I wanted to mention it in this video, but it was too long as it is. You are right though, it can be a future topic

[@captarmour]

Close coupled canards are said to be more efficient than canards far ahead of the wing due to mutually beneficial interaction. Does a close coupled Tandem also benefit from mutually beneficial interaction? Once I built a close coupled delta canard with the trailing edge of the canard root directly above the leading edge of the wing root with a 55 degree sweep. the vertical spacing was twice wing thickness. when i tried lowering the canard to 1/4 of wing thickness above the wing, resulting in a very narrow gap between canard and wing, it became very difficult to turn. at the time I thought it was probably due to stronger leading edge vortices on the leading edge of the wing. any thoughts on this?

[@timothymichaelgoff2715]

I like it, how much too build?

[@HobbesNJoe]

Amazing, well-researched video! Thanks for adding some numbers to potential solutions for short flight times. I love the idea of a tandem wing glider with solar, as in the thumbnail. I'm sad that there wasn't anything in the video about tandem wing gliders, except in closing.

[@ElectricAviation]

My pleasure! Here is the article about the tandem wing aircraft. sustainableskies.org/a-solar-algae-hybrid-for-an-atlantic-crossing/ Not much has happened in the development of that aircraft

[@gjsxnobody7534]

so propellors work in outer space?

[@qorje]

If you fly higher you need less power due to lower air density. Would that help with solar powered airplanes? At what height is it noticable?

[@shashidharmurthy2226]

In case of a crash it is very easy the open solar cells get damaged,then the repairs are certainly expensive,what do you say?

[@markcampbell7577]

When will you use the Edison generator as the power source for electric power planes. One car generator chisel to spin with permanent magnet motor and inverters added will produce 13 kw of power at 110v AC

[@someguydino6770]

Yes you mentioned the Sunseeker Duo created by Eric Scott Raymond in 2009. However; when you recounted the history of solar powered airplanes; you REALLY "fumbled the ball" by failing to mention the Sunseeker 1 which Mr. Raymond flew across the entire United States in 1990!

[@jakobhuss]

I would be very interested in a video about altitude and aerodynamic efficiency. Could electric aircraft work better on extremely high altitudes?

[@guieggert4592]

Theoretically yes. But because the atmosphere is so thin extremely high it's hard to get the lift. You need to either fly supersonic, or have gigantic wings. Obviously engineering an electric plane to fly at supersonic speeds at high altitudes or having gigantic wings is an extremely difficult task.

[@simonm1447]

@@guieggert4592 This is what solarstatos plans, they build a sort of electric U-2 with a large wing span, capable of flying at high altitudes. It's not a pure solar electric aircraft, the solar cells are more used as a range extender.

[@KWITS]

Always like your videos but this one made me react: I’m not aviator nor engineer. But I am a ‘creative mind’ and made a solar air plain design a year ago. Some say it’s an interesting design others say it’s impossible to make it fly. It would be nice to get in contact with some people who could actually think along and (if possible!) develop it to something that could work. Thanks again for the videos and keep up the good work!

[@GudieveNing]

My company has been on the case for a long (long!) time. We have designed a large (part) passenger carrying solar powered semi-ornithopter whose wings are covered in next generation solar panels to top up the batteries in flight and charge them when landed. That is all I can say for now, but follow @YAIRENERGY and we'll Tweet once we have something tangible to show. We're in stealth, so there won't be much news until everything works to our standards.

[@DavidElzeitsinfill]

I'm a "creative mind" also. actually studied architectural engineering but I'm very interested in electric vehicle design. If you would just like to get some feed back on your design you can email me at [e-mail]

[@samueltucker8473]

Great presentation, very encouraging.

[@nareshkoppula7304]

can we stick solar panels to entire body of aircraft, thereby reduce the wings

[@ElectricAviation]

It would add less power compared to the weight it will add

[@otterylexa4499]

There was a recent announcement from a Swedish team about structural batteries (basically turning carbon fibre composites into battery cells as far as I understood it) recently.

[@philv3941]

Only few kWh by kg of structure. A 300kg structure gives about 20 kWh of battery. I doubt on the interest.

[@danielnofal]

Excellent content. The formulas are very valuable

[@KonichiWawa]

I wonder about the possibility of a small satellite being launched from one of these vehicles. If possible when might we see something like this happen? I mean the advertising alone should insure available funds to accomplish the task.

[@woodarddarren]

thanks for your research

[@ElectricAviation]

My pleasure

[@crackedemerald4930]

Finally, now i have the tools to race the sun.

[@TheWinezen]

Perhaps the next version would be able to incorporate more solar cells along the fuselage sides of the plane so that the plane can produce power from rising and setting sun periods. Every square foot counts. Also, if the engine can be mounted in the rear, it would reduce the turbulence going through the entire body of the plane and increase laminar flow which will contribute to better lift and efficient power usage. You just have to use taller landing gears that will let you tilt for take-off and land more safely without damaging the rotors.

[@yougeo]

By the way when searching for solar panels on Amazon where they often overestimate the power output of the panels the best way to get a true estimate of the power is to use some Factor like 20% and multiply it times 1, 000 watts per square meter times the physical size of the cell which is usually specified in the description of the solar system. That will be the closer number to the true output of the solar panel on Amazon and you'll find they usually quote double that.

[@jonathanmillner]

Am I the only one waiting for someone to merge solar with a hybrid wing aircraft so you have A. Very efficient flying matched with B. A huge amount of plane surface area to put solar panels on?

[@anthonynorton666]

When flying at altitudes that require oxygen supplemental oxygen for the pilot, what do you use to minimize the increase in payload?

[@Nukepositive]

Now I'm curious how possible it is to adapt these into spaceplanes. Is it possible, over days or weeks or months, to use a solar glider (perhaps combined with an ion propulsion system) to accelerate up to orbital speeds and dock in low earth orbit?

[@markjenkins1569]

At low earth orbit, there is not enough air for a winged plane to fly. No air means no flying. That's why rockets are used.

[@Nukepositive]

@@markjenkins1569 That's why I said combined with ion propulsion. I know that there's some air resistance. It's enough for the ISS's orbit to degrade. Such a spaceplane would need some kind of propulsion, and I'm not educated enough to know if the math would work.

[@angelarch5352]

What about a powered blimp or zeppelin? fill it with helium, and there is a tremendous amount of area for solar cells.

[@Alrukitaf]

Excellent vid.

[@CultureTripGuide-HilmarHWerner]

you forgot to show the tandem-wing "eraole" from raphael dinelli which you show in your title-photo...?!

[@ElectricAviation]

I did mention it my comments

[@vickvickson4273]

Why not making a MUCH bigger solar cells area, by putting a single triangle (v) shaped wing, like trikes have?

[@engineerahmed7248]

@ 7:52 WHAT'S WRONG WITH LARGE WINGS THEN??????????????? Only that u got to land in a level field or an airport

[@kocsisjanos850]

The great advantage is flying in "reverse" facing headwind (let alone quartering headwinds!)...🤣⚡☔🌦

[@ToysRUsKid_Critter]

Solar Stratos is not pure solar, but rather solar augmented . A hybrid. It is also vapor ware since it has not flown and set any benchmark.

[@comptegoogle511]

Outside from wanting to increase the Reynolds number of the wing, I'm wondering why they don't put the propellers in pusher mode. Personally, I would put a bunch of small permanent magnet engines that can fit in the max cord thickness with small props in the downwash of the wing.

[@tobiasreichelt888]

I think the configurations we will see are first canard vtols with altitude capabilites of 50'000 ft and then a lifting-body flying up to 90'000 ft. Solar between 1.5 - 4 kWp for a 1 - 2 seater & 430 Wh/kg pack level batteries at 60 - 80 % of 700 kg gross weight. 400 - 500 kt cruise 10 hrs (unlimited 250 kt daytime).

[@tobiasreichelt888]

Climb rates better than 10.000 ft/min if wanted

[@FSXTout]

Why didnt you use knots when talking about speed?

[@ElectricAviation]

I should have. You are right

[@scottwatschke4192]

Well done very interesting.

[@gobl-analienabductedbyhuma5387]

Better alternative: Put the PV cells under the wing, install lasers at the Tesla Superchargers, pointing up and tracking the airplanes! So the electric jet would have enough power available for a high speed travel! Thats the concept for the future for long distance high speed electric jets. Not kidding. My patent :)

[@ElAnciano92071]

Several of the aircraft shown are low-wing aircraft, and it seems to me that for solar power a high wing would be more benificial, especially the rear wing much of which would be shaded by the vertical stabalizer. High tail? No shade! As many of the cells are in series as I understand it shade on one section of a panel affects the whole panel. I only fly sims, so I am no authority, but high wing aircraft also seem EZer to fly.

[@selfie183]

I never thought of that before 2winges glider if they are small and narrow

[@prednosttrake]

Cartel should definitely look into autonomous solutions with Sunseeker. Perhaps add a fuel cell to be able to fly at night.

[@martshearer498]

Don't forget pioneering unmanned aircraft like AC Propulsion's So Long.