Every Entry Level Mill at IMTS

[@dadandsonsworkshop]

You missed out on the DN Solutions SVM4100, they are like $59k, 12k spindle, Fanuc Oi Plus, TSC and TSA, auto greaser, 30 tool and its a 30x20 machine.

[@AudacityMicro]

I did miss that! I didn't think they had anything that qualified, my bad!

[@AudacityMicro]

I'll pin this comment so other people can see it.

[@dadandsonsworkshop]

@@AudacityMicro I didn't think they did until I hit up my salesman to see if he had something that compared to the Smart mini. You can get a chip conveyor for like $6k more.

[@sksmith903]

Are they running a special or something? I priced an SVM4100 roughly 10 months ago at closer to $75K. It does look like a heck of a machine, but I'd put it at or slightly above a VF2SS similarly optioned. Ended up going with a DNM4500S though for another ~$15K more plus a few options.

[@dadandsonsworkshop]

@@sksmith903 that wasn't a special, but each dealer is different on prices. That's just what my dealer told me for a price. Some dealers might be cheaper or higher though.

[@lawerencecohen8287]

The KAAST using non proprietary parts is a bonus when it comes to support.

[@kenrobertson8239]

My dad got 2 of the Smart machines last year, their drill/tap ones rather than the Mini, and he has been pretty happy with them.

[@Bergvomit]

The Smart Mini machine is the best deal. It has the most features built into the machine with a great support staff behind the machine. Good video!

[@yelims20]

thank you for saving me the trouble that is Chicago and walking the miles that is IMTS LOL

[@AudacityMicro]

Glad I could help 🫡

[@daboyakasha101]

I love the dynapath guy, gets in close like he's telling you a secret, says the lathe is expensive, "it is what it is"

[@Steve-pk9ok]

When I was an apprentice, we started with NC machines that you programmed with a typewriter punch tape programmer. The machine would see light coming thru holes of the tape and that told it what to do. We have come a long way since then (1983) and now not only are CNC's way more advanced, but the pricing is VASTLY more affordable.

[@johnkirisits6380]

the KAAST, double check the voltage requirement. She said 220v 3 ph, then said it would hook to a dryer plug. MOST dryer plugs are 220 single phase. Very nice machine.

[@midlifecars]

I noticed that but she said 20amp. No way I can see regular 220 would support 10hp on a 20amp unfortunately 😢

[@AudacityMicro]

She obviously got tongue tied a little, since she forgot to mention needing a phase converter. But generally most dryer outlets are 40-50 amps. At least in older houses. Maybe newer ones expect more energy efficient dryers, but 50 amps is more than enough to run a small mill. Heck, my (very small) Haas runs on 20a of 240 single phase.

[@midlifecars]

@@AudacityMicro ah, understood! But to note that a dryer outlet is standard at 30amp. In house wiring it’s used with a #10 romex. The only 50amp circuits are generally a 5 ton ac and the oven/stove combo. Thanks for the reply, one day I would love to get one of these and that gives me a lot of hope!

[@FlipLoLz]

​@@AudacityMicro This is incorrect. If you're running a single phase 240v* 10hp motor, you're going to need at minimum a 55amp breaker. If you're using a converter, you're going to need even better. She's clearly correctly stating it's a three phase, though I have my doubts if the 20amp breaker is correct, given the spec sheet. Definitely being loose with regard to it matching a dryer plug, but maybe she wasn't speak in terms of the specific receptical.

[@dbugman1]

I have a 10hp air compressor single phase and it's on a 50 amp breaker

[@whatever1663]

THIS is the the video the world needs right now.

[@AudacityMicro]

I tried my best 🫡

[@benjaminengel3738]

I'm a huge fan of Hurco. I have been running them for years and they are very capable. I have been able to chase sub 0.001" tolerances on them

[@chadmaurer4002]

That SMART machine is very interesting. Great travels and spindle for the price.

[@AudacityMicro]

100% agree, I didn't try optioning one out, to see where the "real" price lands, but it's still gotta be cheaper than a optioned out mini-mill

[@Eric-vq9nq]

@@AudacityMicro We were just getting some numbers for some larger Smart machines last week. Pricing is really good. They don't seem to nickel and dime you for every option like Haas does.

[@AudacityMicro]

That's good to know!

[@chadmaurer4002]

@@AudacityMicro I would certainly look at one for my next machine

[@rickstephaniefrye6882]

I own 3 smart machines, and have had great experience with them as a company. I do not own the machine you shot, but i do have an sv-2, which happens to be right next to it. In 6 years of owning their machines, i have had to replace 1 coolant pump on 1 machine, which is pretty good in my opinion. I started just as some others mentioned, buying used, but quickly got tired of fixing the machines, and the slow feedrates and rapids, and no memory.

[@braddfwtx]

Nice video!! IMTS was a whirlwind yet again! I love the show! Nice to see many familiar companies and friends in your video! Ebony at KAAST is awesome!! The SMART machines….well, they have a game changer!! Full disclosure: they are a FANTASTIC customer and friends!!

[@AlphaEngineer2022]

good to see my buddies at hurco, they have the best value machines in the business!

[@adammiller4879]

Yes they do

[@gtscientific_and_manufacturing]

Love my VM10Ui. Hope my next is a Hurco.

[@Bu5H84]

Awesome to see a South African giving a helping hand with the Optimill

[@dieterrosch4154]

Came here just to comment the same 🤣

[@RiadKhan-u9n]

Excellent Video, you buddy is a champion for stepping up !

[@cskovach]

Smart mini would be my choice if it had been out at the same time I was buying my X7. I don’t know if they discussed it but Smart has has $10M of spare parts sitting in a warehouse in Wisconsin waiting to ship to you if they’re needed. That’s huge for a machine like this.

[@AudacityMicro]

Yeah, it's really hard to argue with the Smart, as long as it fits inside your shop. Good to know about the spare parts, that is a HUGE benefit

[@cskovach]

@@____________________ok S Korea

[@Rimrock300]

But have you had issues with yourSyil X7, needed to wait for spare parts? Is it a real issue?

[@AudacityMicro]

All things mechanical eventually break down, and will need spare parts.

[@cskovach]

@@Rimrock300whether I have or not (I haven’t) is irrelevant. Things happen and if you’re depending on a machine to pay your bills then you need to be able to fix it quickly. Having to wait around 2-4 weeks for your parts to show up from China assuming you can still get them would absolutely suck. Obviously if you’re just buying a machine to dick around with in your garage as a hobby then it doesn’t matter.

[@marclevitt8191]

I like that this company sells that mill made in Taiwan. Kaast reminds me of what Precision Matthew’s does: sell Chinese and Taiwanese versions of their mills and lathes. I went for the Taiwanese models, a PM-1640TL and a PM-949TV. Precision Matthews says the Taiwanese machines have better quality control, but there are undoubtedly very well-manufactured Chinese machines for sale. Kaast seems to be selling rebadged Bodor laser systems. I very recently purchased two Bodor machines: a 6KW P3 Sheet cutter, which is the 4020 or 4 m x 2 m worktable size with shuffling tables. I also bought a Bodor K230 6KW tube cutter, which is the twenty-foot long version, with Bodor’s Ttrans automation system, which automatically loads tubes. I wonder how much Kaast’s version of the Bodor laser machines cost.

[@Lwimmermastermetalart]

Really enjoy your videos. I always loved going to IMTS but now with videos like this it’s the next best thing to being there. What amazes me the most is just how many manufactures there are out there. Not only the amount of companies but just how many different machines they make. Sort of makes you wonder how so many can survive and where do all these machines end up. I’ve been in this business since 1976 when I started my shop. Simply amazing how far we’ve come. Good video young man 👍🏼👍🏼

[@nocturnalwelding5166]

Being there live with you while filming was pretty cool. My favorite machine in this video was bye far the Kaast. In real life it was a cool little machine! love her fruit comment about Haas avocados lol.

[@AudacityMicro]

I so didn't get the fruit joke 🤣

[@scottwatrous]

@@nocturnalwelding5166 so that's what she was on? I thought it was something like Orange Vise, lol

[@jero37]

I thought she was charming and I definitely wanted a closer look at the machine.

[@lexugax]

Thanks for making these videos to help the small/starting manufacturers. That Smart Mini looked awesome for the price. I wonder where they are made. I could not find the info in their website.

[@AudacityMicro]

Some are made in South Korea, some are made in Taiwan. Not sure where this specific one is made

[@2SMPerformance]

They told me India but they use German and Japanese components.

[@Eggsr2bcrushed]

I believe they are built by Cosmos in India.

[@cbk0485]

Walked by Kaast multiple times. Never knew they were close by to me.

[@joecnc3341]

Nice Video! Thank You for sharing. I haven't been to this show in a long time. Also - glad you are still KZbin-ing.

[@movax20h]

Cool. It is amazing to see how industry progressed in last dead or two, where entry machines are more capable, and half the price from the past. That Smart Machines is really cool. The price is almost too good to be true. But possible.

[@shocwav3]

TRAK VMC2 has more travel than a mini mill, conversational built in and is less expensive than all the selections in your video, worth a look.

[@AudacityMicro]

I tried. They asked to not be in the video 🤷‍♂️

[@shocwav3]

@@AudacityMicro well thats a shame.

[@AMakerDad]

@@AudacityMicro I really don't get the stance of these companies. I was at a trade show (MD&M West) years ago, just taking pictures of stuff on display, and a really aggressive guy blocked my camera from taking a picture of his display of abrasives. Some people don't seem to understand why they are at a trade show.

[@2SMPerformance]

The SMART Mini Mill was definitely my favorite of the show but they told me that it is not 4th axis or probe capable.. was a big bummer.

[@jim5148]

My 220 dryer outlet is just single phase, but it's a neat machine.

[@ybd.]

Great video! Wished I took the time to visit. In the moment its always so hard to make time but I consistently regret not going lol

[@LoneWolfPrecisionLLC]

Kass is an interesting competitor. Smart is super competitive especially with how they are running in steel

[@AudacityMicro]

the the kaast one was super cool. really nice and compact. The Smart seams like a steal at that price too. But too tall for most garages I think.

[@LoneWolfPrecisionLLC]

@@AudacityMicro absolutely If you can fit its definitely got more grunt than anything else in that category. Wish doosan pushed their dem more as it's very similar

[@stevec6977]

On the Kaast machine she said it ran on 230 3 phase and then said you could plug right into your drier outlet. Does anyone here in the states actually have 3 phase power to there driers?

[@AudacityMicro]

Speaking on camera is hard. I would give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume she meant with a phase converter

[@stevec6977]

@@AudacityMicro gotcha

[@scottwatrous]

It could be that it's 220/230 single phase, or with a converter maybe? But some places have dryers and such setup for 3-phase as well. Usually apartments.

[@OpenMFGco]

She could have meant that you could use a drier plug to power it, so it doesnt need to be hardwired. Although an oven plug is probably a better idea, and that you can run with 3 phase. I actually use an oven plug (NEMA14-50p) on my citizen swiss lathe

[@saturnmedia1]

2:31 A dryer outlet is NOT THREE PHASE! You need a special converter or 3 phase wired into your space. 220v comes in different forms!

[@nikhook1114]

From the machines decsribed, the smart machine looked like the best. Fanuc controller, Arm tool changer is by far better than the others, bigger travels and 12,000rpm 20 hp.

[@250smacks]

I didn’t know you were in Indiana, pretty cool. I’m in nw Indiana and been watching your stuff for a while. I’m a truck driver by trade but want to change careers, been doing cad and 3d printing for about 3 years now and studying cnc and saving money for a machine.

[@ReiniGrauer]

No way that smart mini draws 35kw, it's listed as a 10/15hp spindle on the website so I'm guessing it's more like 30-35 amps. The 9k weight is also a little suspicious but I guess it could just be absolutely overbuilt.

[@AudacityMicro]

Machine tool builders LOVE to over-rate their machines in terms of power consumption. They don't want customers undersizing the wiring/breakers, and then blaming them, so EVERYONE over-specs power requirements. It was however, certainly over-built.

[@ReiniGrauer]

@@AudacityMicro Oh I'm fully aware, I have a DMG with a 25/35hp spindle that apparently demands a 120 amp circuit, and that machine doesn't even have a bunch of high HP pumps and stuff. Meanwhile the VF2 has a "20hp" spindle and only needs a more realistic 40 amps. I highly doubt the DMG uses 3x the power but who knows. Might be worth putting an ammeter on to see what they're actually doing.

[@Steelcrafted]

That's the wet weight with 55gal of coolant lol.....and full chip tray capacity 🤣

[@tiotube7578]

Kaast basically imports cheap Chinese mills puts a sticker on there gives some warranty and calls it a day

[@taylorcurtis6187]

i absolutely hate when i get overwhelmed by the access of more than 12 tools

[@brianwaayenberg3099]

The smart mini sounds like a great pretty good deal. Fanuc control, 24 tool smtc, good weight and travels for 40k. I wonder what the options list costs.. Smtc may be a pita getting in a garage tho. Had to remove my vf2 smtc to slip it under the door. Was a pain to remount with little clearance for rigging under the low roof.

[@jamess9420]

I dont think Syil was at IMTS but thats one to consider too, the X5 or X7. Bought mine in January and been very impressed with it.

[@AudacityMicro]

100% agree. I said that right at the end of the video. It's really a bummer they weren't there, I feel like they spent the last two years gaining momentum, only to blow it at the last minute with IMTS.

[@dehermannen2419]

I have an X5 since summer. working very well. I'm a happy customer.

[@viliusr6974]

For 50k is a used robodrill for me, no questions asked. All those entry machines are just a bunch of compromises, costing more money long term. And once you try something like robodrill, you find it surprising when some what's considered basic functionality is not available on these compromise machines.

[@AudacityMicro]

I mean, compromise is sort of the name of the game for anything entry level. If you go used you are trading the risk of a lemon machine for the cheaper price. You don't get the warranty, parts might be harder to find, etc... It might be the best route for some people, but not for others.

[@martinsnider3998]

Home dryer outlet is Single Phase 220. She said dryer outlet 3-phase 220. Most homes do not have that. You would need a phase converter to get 3-phase.

[@AudacityMicro]

Speaking on camera is hard, especially when you are out on the spot. I'm sure that's what she meant, but just forgot to say it.

[@innominatum9906]

The 20 tools is MASSIVE compared to 12. While I personally prefer paying a fair bit extra and go for a Mazak - that Smart Mill is surprisingly capable for that price. I always have strong doubts about these entry mills and would probably rather get a used instead but... the Smart Mill wouldnt be too bad a choice. It would depend heavily on how their support is in Scandinavia. Nobody beats Mazak at that though 🙃

[@blacklabel6223]

Did you have good mazak support? We had a 250msy that went through 3 sub spindles in 5 years, 300 hours on each before they burned up. Took them months to get the replacement scheduled, and they loved sending out a tech to say “yup it’s busted but I didn’t bring any parts so I’ll order some and come back again” multiple times per spindle before they turned a wrench. Usually 3-4 visits before anything actually happened, which took multiple months.

[@innominatum9906]

@@blacklabel6223 They usually make sure all the parts they need are sent to us before the technician arrives here. Its just a waste of everyones time if not so I can see why youre frustrated. Not only with the way they operate in your area but 300 hours? Thats not much. Due to my location there isnt really any technicians living close by. So when a new machine is coming in and they have to run a setup - most of them will overnight in nearby hotels etc. A few years ago one of their technicians decided he wanted to drive and sleep back at his home every night... which was a 3 hour drive each direction. Which meant 3 hours at our workshop before his workday "ended". That went on for about a week before we called Mazak and told them about the deadline for when the machine was agreed to be up and running. New tech showed up and made sure the deadline was reached =)

[@kw2519]

@@blacklabel6223we had Mazak come out to fix our 250msy and he had to order a controller of some kind, it showed up having a crushed connector plug directly from mazak lol

[@JohnSmith-dp2jd]

Maybe they've worked out the kinks a bit, but I've had bad experiences with Haas' APLs. A place I used to work had one of the new style ST-20s with the gantry loader and the loader was just the biggest POS. There was a table the blanks sit on that moves back and forth under the rail and it just wouldn't move in a consistent way. Factory techs came out to work on it half a dozen times, never fixed it. Every 4 or 5 parts it would come down wrong, hit the edge of the part, and get the stock wedged between the gripper and table and have to get powered down and jogged all the way back up at snail speed. Decent lathe, garbage loader, just pay someone to do it by hand since it can't run lights out anyway.

[@estebanpaintballer3]

The g84 till she m8’s shirt is awesome!

[@scudzuki]

Clothes driers are not 3 phase. The Syil X7 is a lot of machine for the money and also uses industry standard compnents. The Smart machine looks pretty nice, too.

[@kgcrystal3662]

My boss has been looking at some smart machines since we went, Their horizontal prices are kinda nuts

[@nathanellinger7077]

Good information. Thanks for sharing.

[@AudacityMicro]

Glad it was helpful!

[@lephtovermeet]

Just throwing it out that I love tormach. They're super affordable, even their tools, accessories, and replacement parts. We get it they're not HAAS or Keller, but they're pretty amazing for the price.

[@AudacityMicro]

I am a huge tormach fan! I've owned a few through out the years! I have done a few videos about the 1500MX at this point, and I am totally sold on it! There *might* be one destined for my shop soon.

[@zacharykarr]

I wish there was an easy reference list of different machines based on their 'garage door height' rating.

[@AudacityMicro]

That would be very handy 😅

[@jasonvanhalle]

Decent roundup of solid entry level equipment, but to be fair, I think Haas killed the Mini Mill themselves when they started to jack up prices and stop supporting a lot of their not-so-old stuff. I didn't go to IMTS this year (I'm usually on the Rep side) but was Syil not there at all?

[@TheEpistemicOne]

Awesome! I missed seeing Kaast when I was there. Looks like nice setup. Taking notes there Haas????

[@dbugman1]

What was the price on the SMART mini ? I didn't hear them say the price ?

[@AudacityMicro]

Starts at $40K

[@formekinetics691]

First machine: KAAST - Confused at the 20 amp 220 3 phase but can plug into a dryer outlet. When did dryer outlets become 3 phase?

[@AudacityMicro]

She just got ahead of herself, and forgot to mention that you are plugging a phase converter into the dryer outlet

[@AudacityMicro]

Not the machine directly

[@formekinetics691]

@@AudacityMicro single to 3 phase converter will change the torque curve... dramatically.

[@AudacityMicro]

No? For a few reasons. 1) modern phase converters just don't do that. 2) all machines these days have a VFD, so regardless of your phases, it becomes DC before being turned back into three phases. As long as you can supply enough clean power, the machine doesn't care where it's coming down.

[@raindeergames6104]

If the Jamie isn't South African I'm a chopper pilot.

[@philipgooch676]

Hey im in Indianapolis. Id like to reach out and talk to you, where can i do that ?

[@AudacityMicro]

Hi! Shoot me an email. [e-mail]

[@hawkprecision7878]

Great video for those starting out in a shed/garage. Can the Hurco VM 0ne run on single phase? I bought a Hurco VM10i late July and it was installed last month into my small shed beside my house here in Perth, Australia. Hurco Singapore are extremely good to deal with. Machine seems capable from my use so far.

[@AlexWiseman-ENGR]

The VM One can run off of single phase. Other machines may have the ability to use a single to three phase converter.

[@AlexWiseman-ENGR]

The VM One can run off of single phase without a phase converter. Other Hurco machines may also have the ability to run off of a phase converter, but I don't know if this is the case for all of Hurco's machines.

[@hawkprecision7878]

@@AlexWiseman-ENGR Thanks for the answer

[@bltventure]

Hey, sorry I missed you at the Tormach meet up. would have been cool. I liked the 1500, only thing was depth of the machine with auger was a lot for a small shop but that was it. So your opinion if height was not a problem but all other constraints what would you seriously consider? Support, learning curves, travels with smaller footprint...

[@AudacityMicro]

I think it's mostly dependent on your application. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. 100% tormach for someone with power limits, or who are new to machining. The kaast looks great for someone with a small space, who is doing big/real production work. I probably wouldn't ever recommend one of the knee mills. The Smart looks fantastic for a jobshop, but it's big for a garage. Personally, I don't think I would change up the route i've gone, and I would find a lightly used Haas. I think that is the best bang for the buck right now.

[@piccilos]

The DynaPatch ATC looks cool but I feel bad so much engineering went into 4 tool slots. No Trak love? Are they over the price limit?

[@AudacityMicro]

They refused to be on video 🤷‍♂️

[@mattfuchs7626]

Anyone know how to spell that last machine brand he mentioned, siles?

[@AudacityMicro]

Syil Their X7 and X5 machines are popular right now, and start around $30K

[@dylanritter5726]

Holy smokes you are literally my doppelgänger

[@AudacityMicro]

I'm so sorry 🤣

[@dylanritter5726]

@@AudacityMicromy dad sent me this and I opened it up genuinely thinking it was me for a hot minute!! Craziest thing I’ve seen dude

[@AudacityMicro]

I think you need to send me a picture on Instagram now 🤣

[@dylanritter5726]

@@AudacityMicro I can’t find the ig handle

[@AudacityMicro]

@dylanritter5726 I'm @Audacity_micro

[@scottwatrous]

Im curious why the Hass guy showed off the Mini Mill vs the TM-0P. That seems like a better machine these days for the compact entry level space. I wish there was an "entry level" large format toolroom type mill like the TM2 that wasnt Hass. Maybe they have the market cornered on that but, having some travel is real important for some types of work, even at the entry level. Something that didnt have quite as much footprint as the TM2 does, more tailored for garages and able to go up against a wall, with front or side access cabinets and coolant, would absolutely rip.

[@AudacityMicro]

I think the real reason is that the guy we convinced to come on camera was responsible for showing off/operating the Minimill at the show. He didn't know as much about the DC or TM series, so he just talked about what he knew. This wasn't exactly a video that we planned and coordinated with all of the machine tool builders.

[@scottwatrous]

@@AudacityMicro interesting that they have people specifically for each machine like that, both a good thing in that you're getting folks with in depth knowledge on that hardware but maybe not getting as much of the whole gamut.

[@Echo7Kyle]

Does Smart Mini have coolant?looks awesome

[@AudacityMicro]

The one at the show did, I don't know if it's an option or not?

[@gerot201]

yay more entry machines

[@andrewh2341]

Man, I got so turned around when I was there I only found Smart. All the other booths you showed I never saw (obviously you couldn’t miss haas at the entrance to the hall). Couple questions, did you get a website from optimill, and which of these companies appears the most attractive to you?

[@AudacityMicro]

I think this is them: www.stuermer-machines.com/brands/optimum/

[@AudacityMicro]

And in terms of what is most attractive to me, I just responded to someone else on that, you can go find the full response there. But TLDR: they all look great for different applications, but If I had to start over, I would still buy a used Haas.

[@andrewh2341]

@@____________________ok many of these are rebranded imports. Methods’ house brand is a Taiwanese company contracting to build what Methods asks. The question is what is the original company

[@hinz1]

Best entry mill is 30-40year old japanese iron, that people don't want anymore, for various reasons. Usually build like a tank, unlike these toys.

[@AudacityMicro]

That is a great route for a hobbyist, or someone who isn't interested in growing a business. Though I do agree that going with a slightly used machine is probably a better route. Something like a 2014 Speedio would be really hard to beat in the value department.

[@scottwatrous]

When you are starting out, the machine probably should just work so you can focus on cutting chips. Spending months getting 40 year old machine to run will be educational but it won't get parts out the door. And at the end of that process you're still probably missing useful features that actually help day-to-day productivity with modern CAM. Taking lighter cuts is fine. When starting out no-one is going straight into all-day production of hundreds of parts. You'll spend a lot of the time working on CAM, setup, problem solving, and so the difference between a 20 minute cycle and a 40 minute cycle for a few parts is still relatively insignificant. And in time even with a 'toy' machine the cycle times can come down to something reasonable. I went straight from a DIY hobby mill to a VF2. At the time I didn't want to be 'stuck' with a toolroom type mill or a mini-mill. But at the end of the day for the first few years any of those machines would have done 95% of the work I had to do 90% as fast as the VF. And most would call a VF-2 a "Toy" anyway, it's no beefier than that SMART VMC at the end, for example.

[@AudacityMicro]

100% agree

[@excitedbox5705]

It depends on what you are doing (1 of or mass production) and how much profit difference will it make? If you can finance a machine and finish 2-3 times as much work because of it or take job you couldn't otherwise it will quickly COST you more to use the older machine. Not to mention learning curve (per machine when mix/matching a whole shop), scalability, downtime etc. People often think companies overpay for products/services and they do for what they are getting, but it is often the cheaper option in the end. I upgraded to a new laptop which allowed me to work 2x as fast and therefore paid for itself in less than 1 month. Saving just 1-2 second per screen adds up quickly. If you can save just 1 minute per hour that is over 100 hours a year in productivity. If a new machine costs $60k and you can run 3-4 of them, you save about $50k per employee just on TRAINING using 1 brand instead of mixing 4. Each employee you don't need you save $100k a year. This is all assuming you can find 40 year old NON manual machines to run lights out. Otherwise running 3 shifts will require 9 employees more for 4 machines costing almost $1 million per year.

[@jasonalper7898]

Haas, says the magic word, Single Phase

[@AudacityMicro]

To my knowledge, Haas and tormach were the only options here with single phase. Syil has one too.

[@AlexWiseman-ENGR]

@@AudacityMicro The Hurco VM One can run off of single phase without a phase converter as well.

[@evilsjg]

​@@AudacityMicro happy to help with the single phase equation. I work at Phase Technologies and have helped countless people get machine tools spinning in their home or small shop with our Phase Perfect Enterprise line.

[@boopfer387]

summery of prices on each would be great Kaast $49,995 Tormach $31,995 Milltronics Hurco Haas ??? Smart $39,995

[@AudacityMicro]

The milltronics was about $35K. Hurco is about $60K. The Haas starts at $40ish, but with options is closer to a minimum of $55

[@TheMoody876]

Syil x7 starts at $30k the x9 starts at 50k with alot more travel in xyz

[@randon4cnc460]

Should have stopped by the TRAK machine tool booth, TRAK has amazing entry level machines with there easy to run RX control. They had the VMC2 at the show.

[@AudacityMicro]

I did, they asked to not be included in the video 🤷‍♂️

[@rugger302]

Did you miss the TRAK booth?

[@AudacityMicro]

They refused to talk to me

[@mechanicalworldMW]

I'm glad to see trak putting out some more modern machines, but I feel like the market is still leaving them behind. Their machines are priced much higher than the competition, and they seem to still be focused on tool room products instead of full vmcs or turning centers.

[@shocwav3]

@@mechanicalworldMW The SI machines are priced higher for sure, but the TMC's are very competitive, VMC2/TC2 is a great value.

[@georgeowen2316]

If you have a dryer outlet thats 3 phase i want to see it.

[@AudacityMicro]

Speaking on camera is hard, especially when you don't have time to prepare. I think she forgot to mention that you could plug a phase converter into a dryer outlet, and then the machine into that.

[@dpsilver1]

for the first machine KAAST did she mean that it runs on 220V single phase? I cant imagine that many 3 phase dryers running around

[@AudacityMicro]

I think she meant that you could plug a phase converter into a dryer outlet.

[@dpsilver1]

@@AudacityMicro hmmm that would make sense too now that i think about it since i have a 10hp one now and that can go up to 32A so a 20A breaker wont cut it

[@LikeFactoryMade]

No Syil X7 on the IMTS?

[@AudacityMicro]

Syil didn't make an appearance 🤷‍♂️

[@thinker4life482]

Miktronics is the way to go!!!

[@AudacityMicro]

This specific machine isn't the right machine for me, but I'm sure it has a time and place for someone else!

[@ManuelRamcanny]

You should be called Audacity Awesome.

[@danielkemp4860]

God Bless South Africans 🇿🇦💪

[@mikeperry2561]

Amazing what you can get these days for a reasonable amount of money.

[@AudacityMicro]

Agreed, even three years ago, the entry level market was Sooooo much more limited

[@salvadorebertolone]

the smart is a ton of machine for the price

[@messiii.007]

I would go with hurco .

[@isellmachines]

Nice video!

[@AudacityMicro]

Thank you!

[@Mack_Dingo]

Most house garages don't have 3-phase. 'Dryer outlets' are single phase 240V. 4500W. Not sure what she is talking about.

[@AudacityMicro]

She meant you could plug a phase converter into a dryer outlet

[@mrechbreger]

Did Tormach lower their prices by 50% over the years?

[@AudacityMicro]

The 1100mx got a little cheaper when the released the 1500mx, but no, they did not

[@shaunybonny688]

Under $60k is entry level?

[@AudacityMicro]

I suppose there's a lot of different possible definitions of "entry level". But in my book it's someone taking their first step from a hobby machine, to their first truly industrial machine. Presumably a person taking that step can afford ~$1000/month on machine payments.

[@QurttoRco]

Parts and service availability ? How well is the control integrated ? What do they offer over minimill? Problem with haas killers is that for alltheir faults Haas genuinly makes product that offers what you need at the price point that you need it at

[@AudacityMicro]

I am not a smart sales person, you will have to talk to them about that. Sounds like it's fairly comparable to a mini-mill, but comes standard with a lot of things that are options on the Haas equivalent (High speed machining is an option, really haas?). Nothing in the US beats the Haas service and support network, but unlike some other machines in this price point (I'm looking at you syil), it does seem to actually exist. I went with my Haas for a reason, but if this existed at the time, I would have seriously seriously considered it.

[@jduenes88]

Have you never heard of a Syil X7?

[@AudacityMicro]

I have several videos talking about the X7. This was "every entry level mill AT IMTS". Syil didn't come to IMTS. I mention that at the end of the video

[@NOTSOSLIMJIM]

"Under $60,000.00" Sure guy.

[@AudacityMicro]

*before options

[@TheMoonlightCraftsman]

Just plug it in my 3 phase dryer outlet

[@AudacityMicro]

She meant you plug the phase converter into the dryer outlet silly.

[@TheMoonlightCraftsman]

@@AudacityMicro that makes more sense thank you

[@WellSpokenRedNeck]

Tell Jamie to come back to Joburg ;)

[@AudacityMicro]

I thought he did 😅

[@TheMurrut]

Do all tool experts say RPMs? Do they not know it's redundant? Revolutions Per Minute, it's already plural. Regardless, RPM is a description of rate which is singular. Even Titans use it. Am i wrong?

[@AudacityMicro]

I think it just rolls of the tongue easier. When you say it 1000x a day, you tend to lean to the easier option, even if it isn't literally correct

[@_Par1ah]

Entry level is ~$60k? Welp I’m never getting into this as a hobby 😂

[@AudacityMicro]

There are plenty of really good hobby machines. These are entry level for a business. And, $60K is the max, there are plenty that are cheaper

[@Zebra66]

Best entry level is a cheap used machine with a free Linux CNC mod. Small business start-ups fail when they take on debt before they are ready.

[@AudacityMicro]

I would call that a "hobby level" machine. Someone shopping at this level is beyond the hobby phase, and looking to make money over tinkering. It's 100% the best bang for your buck at a hobby level, but at the professional level, your time is worth too much.

[@excitedbox5705]

A single well running machine will save you at least 1 employee, saving you the cost of at least 1 of these machines a year in payroll, maintenance, downtime, repair, etc. Production is WAY different than many other industries. Many industries you would be correct. But considering in most cases you will need at least 2-3 machines for any really production process, start to finish, the man hours saved will quickly more than pay for the machine. 1 person can run 3-4 of these and some shops can get away with even more, once you get some economies of scale in several types of work loads. You will quickly save millions+ buying a few of these over any "smaller" options. I would even argue if you don't need at least 1 of these machines full time you are better off outsourcing whatever you are doing.

[@Zebra66]

@@AudacityMicro A pro grade used VMC running Linux CNC runs the same or better than any pro grade controller.

[@mechanicalworldMW]

​@@Zebra66having done the lcnc retrofit multiple times, I have to agree with the other comments. I have made way more money with my used sharp vmc with an outdated fanuc control than the 4 lcnc machines combined. The converting and tinkering is fun, but 10k rpms and everything working all (most) of the time let's me focus on making parts (money) instead of fine tuning a machine. But if you want to buy some lcnc projects hit me up :)

[@dehermannen2419]

Small start-ups fail when they focus on the machine instead of the parts they should make. If you spend $40k, and you write it off in 5 years, that's aboout $700 a month. Even if you make only 200 parts a month, it's still only $3.5 for the machine. if you can't afford that, you better outsource your production.

[@dannirr]

Why do you use thew Tormach as your base?

[@AudacityMicro]

Mostly because the 1100MX is a SUPER common machine, and up until a few years ago, it was the best option for a cheap, but capable machine. I made a living off one for two years, so I'm familiar with it, and I think there are a lot of people in the same boat.

[@dannirr]

@@AudacityMicro Appreciate your response. I have an `1100MX (I'm a hobby guy) but I'm thinking of a better machine. 1500MX is attractive as my learning curve will be zero, but perhaps its not a real upgrade...

[@AudacityMicro]

I have two really comprehensive videos on the 1500, and one on the way to my shop (a 1500mx I mean) It's a massive upgrade over the 1100mx, and in the same class as all of these machines here.

[@dannirr]

@@AudacityMicro I'll look for those videos - thank you. It's still only 4hp though....and if I'm gonna spend 50-60k, I dont want to regret it :)

[@TKN0099]

@@AudacityMicro Tormach sending you a sample to play with for a while?

[@ipadize]

i think the Optimum is the last one i would buy if i would buy a machine. 40k for that come on.

[@AudacityMicro]

I would take it over the knee mills, but overall I agree

[@brocktechnology]

I've got my eye on one of Littlemachineshop's midrange offerings but this was still interesting.

[@trollingdirty8910]

The KAAST, 220 3 phase? Eh ...

[@jeremyjpegan]

220V is not 3phase

[@ccfmfg]

I Love the Saws-All comment.

[@aintdatsnipes177]

Gene dominates that market.

[@BPFabricationLLC]

We have 5 Smart Machine Tool cncs

[@fredbecker607]

Entry level for a full time business maybe. Not entry level for a hobby or even hobby business.

[@AudacityMicro]

That is correct, I did not do a good enough job at explaining that in the video

[@vettepicking]

That smart mini doesn't weigh 9000lbs...

[@AudacityMicro]

It may have been a typo on the paper. I checked their website, and it doesn't say