Why Does It Matter That Christ Was ‘Begotten, Not Made’?

[@naturallygifted2002]

Dear God I believe in You and that You sent Your Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ into the word to die for our sins. I confess that l am a sinner and is in need of The Savior. I put faith alone in Christ alone. I also believe in my heart and confess with my mouth and ask that You forgive me of all my sins and cleanse me from all my unrighteousness. Lord Jesus I repent and ask that You come into my heart, take up full residence, fill me with Your Holy Spirit, and sent God fearing Christians in my path in Jesus’s name amen.

[@kiwihans100]

Loved your sincere prayer! Remember though that the Holy Spirit is 'God's Spirit' which we ask for in the name of Jesus (Luke 11:13 ), The Holy spirit originated with the father who 'poured it out on His son' at his baptism. So we love Jesus, but his father even more for sending him to earth for us, for raising him from the dead. Thus Jesus came to' Lead us to God' ( the father) 1 Peter 3:16. Even Jesus when all is done shall hand back the Kingdom to his God & father and subject himself to the Father. ( I Cor 15: 24,28)

[@The02wooley]

Amen

[@sunilninan891]

😅😅😅😅😅2131😅😅😅😅😅😅🎉🎉😅wqq

[@fivenightsatfreddys9369]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@fivenightsatfreddys9369]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@MarySmith-cv1lp]

This was very well explained, and so helpful. Thankyou!

[@thambone30]

Bible writers frequently used the concept of “birth or begotten” in place of “made” or “created.” For instance, the Hebrew word for “brought forth” in some Bible versions is related to birth (“born”). (Deuteronomy 32:18; Psalm 51:5; Isaiah 51:2; 66:8-9; Proverbs 8:24-25.) The Hebrew word yalad means "to bear, bring forth, beget"- Gesenius, #3205, but it can be used (as the equivalent English word also can) for "cause to be." For example, when God says he "begot"/"fathered" (yalad) the nation of Israel (Deut. 32:6, 18), he clearly means that he caused it to be or created it as a nation. There is no implication that it was somehow begotten out of the very substance of his body. In like manner God calls the nation of Israel his son, his firstborn because it was the very first nation created by him and for him (cf. Ex. 4:22). Again, anything Jehovah causes to be may be said to be "begotten" by him and is his "offspring." "Do you thus repay [YHWH], O foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?" - Deut. 32:6, NRSV. "You forsook the creator who begot [yalad] you and ceased to care for God who brought you to birth." - Deut. 32:18, NEB. "Men of Athens [non-Christians], .... The God who made the world and everything in it ... does not live in shrines made by man. .... Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold or silver, or stone..." - Acts 17:22, 24, 29, RSV In Ps. 90:2 we also see yalad used in the sense of created: "Before the mountains were born [yalad] or you brought forth the earth" - NIV, AT, JB, NJB, NAB (1991), NASB; "begotten" - NAB (1970); "were given birth" - MLB. Or, "Before the mountains were created, before the earth was formed." - Living Bible, cf. TEV. So, the Hebrew word most often translated "begotten, brought forth" may also be understood (as in English) to mean created or produced. John Patrick, in his Clement of Alexandria (circa. 155-220 C.E.) notes: "Clement repeatedly identifies the Word with the Wisdom of God, and yet refers to Wisdom as the first-created of God; while in one passage he attaches the epithet "First-created," and in another "First-begotten," to the Word." "But this seems to be rather a question of language than question of doctrine, At a later date a sharp distinction was drawn between “first - created” and “first - born", “first - born" or "first begotten";5 but no such distinction was drawn in the time of Clement, who with the Septuagint rendering of a passage in Proverbs before him could have had no misgiving as to the use of these terms." p.103,104, note 6. From The Philosophy of the Church Fathers, Volume 1 Faith, Trinity, Incarnation, by Harry Austryn Wolfson, 2nd Edition, Revised: "Zahn casually remarks that Clement 'always makes a sharp distinction between the only uncreated God the Father and the Son or Logos who was begotten or created before the rest of creation.'...1. cf. Th. Zahn, "Supplementum Clementinium", (1884), 144, p. 204, 92 "It is undoubtably with reference to this "coming forth" of the Logos prior to the creation of the world that Clement speaks of the Logos as "firstborn" [protogonos] and of wisdom, which he idtentified with the Logos, as the "first-created" [protoktistos]...30 Strom. VI, Ibid. V. 14., ibid. p 209 Quote: CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (circa. 155-220 C.E.): “...For ( WE ) thus understand: “I begot thee before the morning star,” with reference to THE FIRST-CREATED LOGOS OF GOD and similarly: “thy name is before sun,” and moon and before all creation...” - (Chapter 1, Paragraph 20, Verse 1; [1.20.1], “EXTRACTS FROM THEODOTUS,” By Robert Pierce Casey ; Quoted on Pages 40-91, “The Excerpta ex Theodoto of Clement of Alexandria,” Studies and Documents 1; London: Christophers, 1934.)

[@tshegofatsoselomo7251]

Wow well put. This was very helpful. God bless✝️

[@Shannon71172]

Very well said. Amen. 🙏🏼❤️🕊

[@alexkoh9060]

Very helpful. Thank you pastor. God bless

[@Richie016]

😇Thank you Pastor John.

[@nmm5214]

In the beginning The Word was with God and The Word was God. And Jesus Christ is The Word of God.

[@gokartbob6478]

This is a poem, description of creation of the "sons of God" (if people will read to verse 12)

[@s6bas]

Gokart Bob take ur own advice and read verse 14

[@gokartbob6478]

@@s6bas yes, the word OF God, was MADE flesh. Also john 20.17

[@theautisticpage]

This is a great passage from John that demonstrates the evolution of the Christian religion. As it was the last gospel written. In Mark Jesus was not god at all but a suffering messiah. Then we get the next probable book written Matthew and then the author of Luke/Acts that copied from luke. These Jesus charactors are now the son of god. Finally in John the Jesus charactor is and always has been god.

[@gokartbob6478]

@@theautisticpage "Jesus cried with a loud voice MY GOD, MY GOD"

[@jamesbeliveau1883]

Because Christ was formed from God’s own essence... that is why he is God but not God the father, who formed (not created) him. AMEN

[@1pecwonder]

That would mean that Jesus is not Eternal.

[@TwitchyTheologian]

That's Arianism Patrick!

[@jeremy144713]

I feel like if you believe in this then you have to say that the son is also eternally submitted to the father and He loses His divinity in a sense. I can’t seem to reconcile this yet word “Begotten” yet, the way Piper explained it.

[@JohnBarr-r5b]

Begotten = created = not eternal = not God

[@jameshenry7893]

Thank you for the explanation of begotten really helpful. Tuesday a Muslim missionary used begotten to deny divinity of Jesus as we were doing a open air in Cambridge UK. Forewarned is forearmed.

[@muhammadbey1351]

My dear respected brother, the term “ begotten “ is a metaphor (figure of speech). King David was also referred to as “son” and “begotten “. See Psalms 2:7. Also , we Muslims believe: In the very beginning, there was God, Most High and there was NOTHING ELSE, only Him. Why: because there was a gap in time which was the time BEFORE God Most High , began creating.

[@johnalbent]

John 5.18 shows that Son of God means equal.

[@ralphsherman8404]

Proverbs 8 speaks of the Sons beginning

[@johnalbent]

I remember Pastor John preaching through John 1. He started it The Lord's Day before the 2008 Presidential Election. Time flies.

[@hisdisciple747]

Listen to this if you are feeling- lost , alone, depressed , abandoned, scared worthless or even suicidal. I'm speaking to you... You are precious. You are beloved. You are wanted. When God crafted you before the foundation of the earth was laid out he didn't create you to suffer, you were made for him and he takes great pleasure in you. The King of peace and order has plans for you. There is hope in what you are going through and we are here for you. If you are reading this then this message is for you , God has woven it into your life for this moment and I bind blessings, love and favor in your life in Jesus name. His strong worthy hand is outstretched toward you.... Take it!

[@aolcom-nl9qb]

I think as a mortal trying to explain the God head, concerning Jesus Christ is beyond people to understand and know, so until eternity is done ,then perfect understand comes into focus.

[@danielukpong4675]

Great job precious Pastor. This is one of the greatest topics and wonders of the only begotten Son of God Jesus Christ our Lord. The only problem with the Nicene Council teaching is that it still leaves so many sensitive questions that arise from the Scriptures and statements of our Lord Jesus Christ unanswered. Neither can Arianism nor Modalism answer the question that hang over from their own teachings. This remains one of the Wonders of the Only Begotten Son of God "Jesus Christ" because His Name is called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. Too wonderful even for systematic theology of men to fathom out. All the groups have various amounts of truth mixed with the traditions of men and the rudiments of the world in varying proportions. The Full Gospel version believes ALL Scriptures together and rightly divides the Word of Truth and places them in their appropriate and respective positions without denying or breaking or suppressing any word of the Scripture as we are commanded by our Lord that "We must live by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God". The fundamental or primary reason for errors for all the groups is the inability to believe all the Word of God together and therefore seeking for some escape route "interpretations" that best support each of the different biases. Therefore, they are all unable to Balance ALL Scripture together. The next reason for errors is not being able to differentiate by definition the word "God" as is related to the Only One True God the Father as a Person and the word "Divinity" as its relates to His Essence (or Deity). Please patiently listen to this "Understanding the Glorious Mystery of the Only Begotten Son of God" by Daniel Ukpong and send any question or concerns to me in the comments and I will respond. God Bless in Jesus Christ's Name Amen. Here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4vIoYKYeNhgbJo

[@understandingthescripture2907]

Trinity! Nowhere in the Bible, it speaks of a Trinity.

[@lostinvictory8526]

E.W. Bullinger: By word man, who is in God's image, makes known his mind; so the Word is the outcome of God's essence (Hebrews 4:12-13; 1Peter 1:25; Genesis 1:3); by the Word He made the universe (Psalms 33:6). The Medium of every external act of God (Hebrews 1:1-3) in the physical and spiritual creations. As Logos is the embodiment and outward expression of the invisible thought, so the 2nd person manifests hte invisible deity and is said to be "God manifes in the flesh"1 Tim 3:16; "the express image of His person Hebrews 1:3; "the image of the invisible God" Colossians 1:15 The Godhead is "Spirit" John 4:24 and as spirit has no likeness to matter, God himself took some creature form, (not human yet) before He created anything, in order that creation might have a mediator, or a means of communion with Deity. Hence, Christ as the word is said to have been "In the beginning" John 1:1; "before all things" (Colossians 1:17); The first-born of every creature" Colossians 1:15; the beginning of the creation of God" Revelation 3:14; and hence "In Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" Colossians 2:9. Then the word was made flesh (John 1:14) in that He might redeem the creation from the curse. Made flesh in order He might suffer and die in atonement of our sins (Heb 10:5; Ps 40:6; Is 62:1; Phil 2:7) Thus one of our earliest creeds says "begotten not made, true God from true God" One way to compare it (though not a perfect comparison) is: as the word is the embodiment and outward expression of the invisible thought, so The Son/The Word manifests the invisible deity and is said to be "God manifest in the flesh" 1 Tim 3:16; "the express image of His person” Hebrews 1:3; "the image of the invisible God" Colossians 1:15. It is like The Son, also known as The Word, puts a created (yet still in spirit) form on The Father.

[@danielukpong4675]

God bless you brother, your response is so far the closest to the Full Gospel teaching in my opinion. However, I regret to say that neither Nicene Council teaching as taught above nor Arianism nor Modalism is the full gospel Truth. All have various amounts of truth mixed with the traditions of men and the rudiments of the world in varying proportions. The Full Gospel version believes ALL Scriptures together and rightly divides the Word of Truth and places them in their appropriate and respective positions without denying or breaking or suppressing any word of the Scripture as we are commanded by our Lord that "We must live by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God". The fundamental or primary reason for errors for all the groups is the inability to believe all the Word of God together and therefore seeking for some escape route "interpretations" that best support each of the different biases. Therefore they are all unable to Balance ALL Scripture together. The next reason for errors is not being able to differentiate by definition the word "God" as is related to the Only One True God the Father as a Person and the word "Divinity" as its relates to His Essence (or Deity). Please patiently listen to this "Understanding the Glorious Mystery of the Only Begotten Son of God" by Daniel Ukpong and send any question or concern to me in the

[@chance8533]

Thank you for this explanation!!

[@dailytheology1689]

Given, first in Title or rank. Not created. He added a human nature to his divine nature. SDG

[@lisellemodeste4378]

This is so crucial to understand. Thank you gor stating this. The concept of creation works with prototypes. God honours the first of every thing. A "son" is something that has come out of you. The first thing God brought forth is a container for His nature :the Word. That container made everything else. Then that Word became flesh. In each iteration God is just adding new facets to His nature, as you put it. I see no confusion, only our understanding of the language

[@zy8753]

@@lisellemodeste4378 I think you guys have the best analogy and explanation. To me, the fact that God IS, in everything of His nature, comes full circle. As in the personhood of Jesus being God, and God as God. thnx

[@AstariahJW]

No such thing as begotten not made That idea came through creeds by apostate men Jesus is not almighty God Jesus was a created being

[@niltonsilva3027]

Church fathers used psalms 1103 to prove the eternal beggetting.. Text Masoretic was corrupt on this verse and many others Aramaic Bible in plain English His people are glorious in the day of power; in the glories of holiness from the womb, from the beginning, I begat you, Son. Brenton's Septuagint Translation With you is dominion in the day of your power, in the splendors of your saints: I have begotten you from the womb before the dawn...

[@janepatton8100]

Just Wow!!!

[@richford2514]

Jesus was born just like you and me except big exception He was born through the Holy Spirit of GOD HIMSELF, Begotten means to be born,he was not made,GOD himself got mary pregnant and GOD Anointed that body with the fullness of his divine power,GOD working through the flesh,reconciling the world to HIMSELF

[@crossboy787]

Thank yo very much. i study the bible on my own. and i didnt understand the word begotten. i was on the dictionary.and couldent find.the meaning so i got on yor channel and you explained very clearly thanks again you were very helpful:)))))God Bless you!!!!

[@johannjohann6523]

Sometimes it is difficult to understand some of the terms in the bible by the way they are used since we are down here on earth, and not knowing understanding how Heaven works and operates you must use your imagination a little since what is being said is out of the context of our world or universe. Try to not take the bible "too seriously". Yes study it, but well, there are some mistakes in the bible. But they do not change the overall narrative of the bible or the major theme etc. But the story of Jesus has several. Ex. Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute. The Catholic Church made that change about her. She was actually Jesus' wife. Mary came from a wealthy family and a very stable life. Her father was a merchant and owned many boats for shipping goods. Well, Jesus was a carpenter right? And probably could build and repair wooden boats. Jesus met Mary while working for her father repairing or building her father's boats. It makes more sense a man (Jesus) would take a wife than a bunch of male Catholic Priests making sense through the ages by not taking wives. Instead, being single their entire life. What makes more sense? So, there are little things like that here and there in the bible. But it does not reduce God's or Jesus' message. Since you like to study: Are you familiar with "Acta Pilate"? The letter written by Pontious Pilate regarding Jesus to Caeser in Rome (Tiberius) about Jesus and his last couple year in Jerusalem? Archaeologists found the original letter and it is very fascinating. I would recommend checking it out. It really is worth the time. And yeah sometimes you need to think "outside the box" when reading the bible, and verifying passages in the bible with other sources is also a good way to go as well. As it will broaden the narrative and story that the bible is telling most of the time. Take care, and God Bless.

[@thambone30]

Examining the Linguistic Data First, a search of Thesaurus Linguae Graecae[2]-a comprehensive database of ancient, Koine, and medieval Greek-reveals that the word monogenēs is used most basically and frequently in contexts having to do with biological offspring. Its fundamental meaning is “only begotten” or “only child” in the sense of having no siblings. For example, Plato describes the primitive population of the mythical island of Atlantis as follows: Thereon dwelt one of the natives originally sprung from the earth, Evenor by name, with his wife Leucippe; and they had for offspring an only begotten daughter, Cleito. (Critias 113d; LCL) This biological usage can be seen in the instances of monogenēs in non-Christological contexts in the New Testament. Three times, Luke uses monogenēs to describe various “only begottens” whom Jesus healed: “the only son” of the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12); the “only daughter” of Jairus (Luke 8:42); and the demon-oppressed boy whose father pleaded, “Teacher, I beg you to look at my son, for he is my only child” (Luke 9:38 ESV). It must be acknowledged that there are indeed instances where a translation such as “only,” “only one of its kind,” or “unique” is required by the context. For example, Clement calls the phoenix, a creature he thought really existed, “unique” (1 Clement 25:1). An ancient treatise describes trees that exist in “only one kind.” But these are uniformly metaphorical extensions of the basic meaning, “only begotten” or “only child.” Context determines which usage is in view, and the five Johannine uses are in the context of sonship, not botany. Second, careful examination of the word list of Thesaurus Linguae Graecae reveals at least 145 other words based on the -genēs stem. Three examples will suffice: theogenēs (“born of God”), neogenēs (“newborn, newly produced”), and, my personal favorite, konchogenēs (“born from a shell”; picture the birth of Venus). Of these 145 words, fewer than a dozen have meanings involving the notion of genus or kind-for example, homogenēs (“of the same genus”) and heterogenēs (“of different kind”). In addition, there are at least 58 Greek proper names built on the -genēs stem, like the common Diogenēs (“born of Zeus”).[3] Since these are names presumably given by parents to their children, we may assume they generally have some connection with the embodied reality of biological offspring, rather than the abstract notion of species or kind. The list of -genēs words and proper names continues to grow as we move forward into medieval (Byzantine) Greek. Taken together, this wealth of -genēs words constitutes critical data demonstrating that the -genēs stem strongly encodes notions of derivation, offspring, and begetting throughout the history of the Greek language. But what about the etymological argument that the -genēs portion of monogenēs comes from genos (“kind”) rather than gennao (“beget”)? This argument collapses once it is recognized that both genos and gennao derive from a common Indo-European root, ǵenh (“beget, arise”).[4] This root produces a fair number of Greek words having to do with biological concepts of begetting, birth, and offspring. In fact, the word genos itself sometimes means “descendant” (Rev. 22:16). True, it can also mean “kind” in a scientific or classification sense where literal biological descent is not in view (e.g., “different kinds of languages” [1 Cor 14:10]). But the scientific or classification usage is a metaphorical extension of the literal biological sense, since the abstract concept of “kind” is modeled on the embodied biological experience of the similarities shared by offspring descended from a common parent." ..... W. E. Vine, p. 811, or from monos (alone) and ginomai (to come into being) - pp. 1667 and 1640, New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #3439, 3441, 1096. It literally means "onlyborn" or "onlybegotten" and is used with this sense no matter how it is translated In the book "Systematic Theology" it mentioned historically the word "only begotten" referred to a father’s or mother's role in the birth of a child, which means at one point in time that child didn't exist. But in 1886 various New Testament scholars began to challenge the meaning of only begotten so that it doesn't mean beget.

[@thambone30]

Bible writers frequently used the concept of “birth or begotten” in place of “made” or “created.” For instance, the Hebrew word for “brought forth” in some Bible versions is related to birth (“born”). (Deuteronomy 32:18; Psalm 51:5; Isaiah 51:2; 66:8-9; Proverbs 8:24-25.) The Hebrew word yalad means "to bear, bring forth, beget"- Gesenius, #3205, but it can be used (as the equivalent English word also can) for "cause to be." For example, when God says he "begot"/"fathered" (yalad) the nation of Israel (Deut. 32:6, 18), he clearly means that he caused it to be or created it as a nation. There is no implication that it was somehow begotten out of the very substance of his body. In like manner God calls the nation of Israel his son, his firstborn because it was the very first nation created by him and for him (cf. Ex. 4:22). Again, anything Jehovah causes to be may be said to be "begotten" by him and is his "offspring." "Do you thus repay [YHWH], O foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?" - Deut. 32:6, NRSV. "You forsook the creator who begot [yalad] you and ceased to care for God who brought you to birth." - Deut. 32:18, NEB. "Men of Athens [non-Christians], .... The God who made the world and everything in it ... does not live in shrines made by man. .... Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold or silver, or stone..." - Acts 17:22, 24, 29, RSV In Ps. 90:2 we also see yalad used in the sense of created: "Before the mountains were born [yalad] or you brought forth the earth" - NIV, AT, JB, NJB, NAB (1991), NASB; "begotten" - NAB (1970); "were given birth" - MLB. Or, "Before the mountains were created, before the earth was formed." - Living Bible, cf. TEV. So, the Hebrew word most often translated "begotten, brought forth" may also be understood (as in English) to mean created or produced. John Patrick, in his Clement of Alexandria (circa. 155-220 C.E.) notes: "Clement repeatedly identifies the Word with the Wisdom of God, and yet refers to Wisdom as the first-created of God; while in one passage he attaches the epithet "First-created," and in another "First-begotten," to the Word." "But this seems to be rather a question of language than question of doctrine, At a later date a sharp distinction was drawn between “first - created” and “first - born", “first - born" or "first begotten";5 but no such distinction was drawn in the time of Clement, who with the Septuagint rendering of a passage in Proverbs before him could have had no misgiving as to the use of these terms." p.103,104, note 6. From The Philosophy of the Church Fathers, Volume 1 Faith, Trinity, Incarnation, by Harry Austryn Wolfson, 2nd Edition, Revised: "Zahn casually remarks that Clement 'always makes a sharp distinction between the only uncreated God the Father and the Son or Logos who was begotten or created before the rest of creation.'...1. cf. Th. Zahn, "Supplementum Clementinium", (1884), 144, p. 204, 92 "It is undoubtably with reference to this "coming forth" of the Logos prior to the creation of the world that Clement speaks of the Logos as "firstborn" [protogonos] and of wisdom, which he idtentified with the Logos, as the "first-created" [protoktistos]...30 Strom. VI, Ibid. V. 14., ibid. p 209 Quote: CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (circa. 155-220 C.E.): “...For ( WE ) thus understand: “I begot thee before the morning star,” with reference to THE FIRST-CREATED LOGOS OF GOD and similarly: “thy name is before sun,” and moon and before all creation...” - (Chapter 1, Paragraph 20, Verse 1; [1.20.1], “EXTRACTS FROM THEODOTUS,” By Robert Pierce Casey ; Quoted on Pages 40-91, “The Excerpta ex Theodoto of Clement of Alexandria,” Studies and Documents 1; London: Christophers, 1934.)

[@thambone30]

Bible writers frequently used the concept of “birth or begotten” in place of “made” or “created.” For instance, the Hebrew word for “brought forth” in some Bible versions is related to birth (“born”). (Deuteronomy 32:18; Psalm 51:5; Isaiah 51:2; 66:8-9; Proverbs 8:24-25.) The Hebrew word yalad means "to bear, bring forth, beget"- Gesenius, #3205, but it can be used (as the equivalent English word also can) for "cause to be." For example, when God says he "begot"/"fathered" (yalad) the nation of Israel (Deut. 32:6, 18), he clearly means that he caused it to be or created it as a nation. There is no implication that it was somehow begotten out of the very substance of his body. In like manner God calls the nation of Israel his son, his firstborn because it was the very first nation created by him and for him (cf. Ex. 4:22). Again, anything Jehovah causes to be may be said to be "begotten" by him and is his "offspring." "Do you thus repay [YHWH], O foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?" - Deut. 32:6, NRSV. "You forsook the creator who begot [yalad] you and ceased to care for God who brought you to birth." - Deut. 32:18, NEB. "Men of Athens [non-Christians], .... The God who made the world and everything in it ... does not live in shrines made by man. .... Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold or silver, or stone..." - Acts 17:22, 24, 29, RSV In Ps. 90:2 we also see yalad used in the sense of created: "Before the mountains were born [yalad] or you brought forth the earth" - NIV, AT, JB, NJB, NAB (1991), NASB; "begotten" - NAB (1970); "were given birth" - MLB. Or, "Before the mountains were created, before the earth was formed." - Living Bible, cf. TEV. So, the Hebrew word most often translated "begotten, brought forth" may also be understood (as in English) to mean created or produced. John Patrick, in his Clement of Alexandria (circa. 155-220 C.E.) notes: "Clement repeatedly identifies the Word with the Wisdom of God, and yet refers to Wisdom as the first-created of God; while in one passage he attaches the epithet "First-created," and in another "First-begotten," to the Word." "But this seems to be rather a question of language than question of doctrine, At a later date a sharp distinction was drawn between “first - created” and “first - born", “first - born" or "first begotten";5 but no such distinction was drawn in the time of Clement, who with the Septuagint rendering of a passage in Proverbs before him could have had no misgiving as to the use of these terms." p.103,104, note 6. From The Philosophy of the Church Fathers, Volume 1 Faith, Trinity, Incarnation, by Harry Austryn Wolfson, 2nd Edition, Revised: "Zahn casually remarks that Clement 'always makes a sharp distinction between the only uncreated God the Father and the Son or Logos who was begotten or created before the rest of creation.'...1. cf. Th. Zahn, "Supplementum Clementinium", (1884), 144, p. 204, 92 "It is undoubtably with reference to this "coming forth" of the Logos prior to the creation of the world that Clement speaks of the Logos as "firstborn" [protogonos] and of wisdom, which he idtentified with the Logos, as the "first-created" [protoktistos]...30 Strom. VI, Ibid. V. 14., ibid. p 209 Quote: CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (circa. 155-220 C.E.): “...For ( WE ) thus understand: “I begot thee before the morning star,” with reference to THE FIRST-CREATED LOGOS OF GOD and similarly: “thy name is before sun,” and moon and before all creation...” - (Chapter 1, Paragraph 20, Verse 1; [1.20.1], “EXTRACTS FROM THEODOTUS,” By Robert Pierce Casey ; Quoted on Pages 40-91, “The Excerpta ex Theodoto of Clement of Alexandria,” Studies and Documents 1; London: Christophers, 1934.)

[@johnsiciliano3833]

jesus christ and GOD are the same

[@jollyrancher521]

If Jesus Christ and God are the same, how would you explain these four scriptures?: 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 - Everything is under Christ’s feet except God since God is the one who put everything under Christ. The Son subjects himself to God so that God may be all in all. Philippians 2:9 - If Jesus is God, how can God exalt him? Acts 7:55-56 - When Stephen was being stoned to death, he looked up to heaven and saw Jesus standing at God’s right hand. How can Jesus be God if he is standing at God’s right hand? John 1:18 - No one has ever seen God. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

[@nmm5214]

Yes as being begotten means Jesus Christ is God.

[@gokartbob6478]

Then why did Jesus say he has a God?

[@williamcopeland6683]

@@gokartbob6478 Sinless Subjection.. Jesus was killed on a cross specifically because He made Himself Coequal and Coeternal and Coexisted with Father Welcome to the Greatest Tension of the Scriptures.. You need the Third Person of the Godhead to see this.. no other path can you take to get to this Treasure.. the Wind blows where It wants.. you cannot control the Wind with human intellect

[@tessalogan586]

@@gokartbob6478 God gave Jesus authority over earth and heaven. God is a spiritual force , it's mind boggling..

[@gokartbob6478]

@@tessalogan586 yes it is. And Jesus said; God is Spirit and we worship him in spirit. (Not flesh) Trinitarian's worship the flesh !

[@gokartbob6478]

@@williamcopeland6683 then why did Jesus say " my Father is greater than I" ?

[@atajoseph]

I still can’t wrap my head around the word begotten, in what was did the father begot the sons divinity if he was always exactly by nature what the father is in eternity and how does that then make the father the hierarchy of the trinity

[@james-cq3mi]

He makes it too difficult. Remember “the simplicity that is in Christ.” There are mysteries hidden in plain sight. “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign, no sign will be given, except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” • Christ’s physical death, burial, and resurrection was a sign pointing to a greater reality. • The reality is, that Christ was spiritually separated, and forsaken by God. • “My God my God why have you forsaken me?” “Into your hands I commit my spirit:” • He was spiritually separated because of our sin that was placed on him. • Your sins made a separation between you and your God. (Isaiah 59:2) • After Christ rose from the dead, He was the first fruit, begotten (re-born) by God. Restoring Christs communion and spiritual separation from the Father. (Acts 13) Christ was the first fruit to come back fully into a spiritual communion, with the Father. Those still alive, who believed in the one who rose again, also became the first fruits as they passed through the death that Christ defeated, separation from God, to life with Christ. (James 1:18)

[@tessalogan586]

Because he was intentionally begotten to save the world displaying Gods Awesome power..who knows the mind of God ???

[@xammocoloniax]

Does "Today I have begotten you" not suggest that it hadn't happened prior?

[@manny4fe1]

Eisegesis at its finest, implying what is not there. Trinity , incarnation, lies.

[@MANDAPRORUBENS]

Theological gymnastics to avoid facing the meaning of the greek word.

[@johannjohann6523]

Interesting dialogue that ended up focusing also on the "Word" of God as well as Jesus. I don't believe God and Science are mutually exclusive. And that God is the greatest scientist of all. Tesla said" "If you want to understand the mysteries of the universe, think first in terms of Frequency, Vibration, and Energy." That is what makes "matter" in our universe. The atoms, the actual "physical" universe. I think that is also the "Word" of God meant in the Bible. When God Speaks He has the power to Create through His voice. And is a voice not made up of Frequency and Vibration? With God then there is also the Energy. God spoke and said: "Let there be Light. And there was Light". Perfect definition of the "Big Bang" and Creation of Universe.

[@thambone30]

Examining the Linguistic Data First, a search of Thesaurus Linguae Graecae[2]-a comprehensive database of ancient, Koine, and medieval Greek-reveals that the word monogenēs is used most basically and frequently in contexts having to do with biological offspring. Its fundamental meaning is “only begotten” or “only child” in the sense of having no siblings. For example, Plato describes the primitive population of the mythical island of Atlantis as follows: Thereon dwelt one of the natives originally sprung from the earth, Evenor by name, with his wife Leucippe; and they had for offspring an only begotten daughter, Cleito. (Critias 113d; LCL) This biological usage can be seen in the instances of monogenēs in non-Christological contexts in the New Testament. Three times, Luke uses monogenēs to describe various “only begottens” whom Jesus healed: “the only son” of the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12); the “only daughter” of Jairus (Luke 8:42); and the demon-oppressed boy whose father pleaded, “Teacher, I beg you to look at my son, for he is my only child” (Luke 9:38 ESV). It must be acknowledged that there are indeed instances where a translation such as “only,” “only one of its kind,” or “unique” is required by the context. For example, Clement calls the phoenix, a creature he thought really existed, “unique” (1 Clement 25:1). An ancient treatise describes trees that exist in “only one kind.” But these are uniformly metaphorical extensions of the basic meaning, “only begotten” or “only child.” Context determines which usage is in view, and the five Johannine uses are in the context of sonship, not botany. Second, careful examination of the word list of Thesaurus Linguae Graecae reveals at least 145 other words based on the -genēs stem. Three examples will suffice: theogenēs (“born of God”), neogenēs (“newborn, newly produced”), and, my personal favorite, konchogenēs (“born from a shell”; picture the birth of Venus). Of these 145 words, fewer than a dozen have meanings involving the notion of genus or kind-for example, homogenēs (“of the same genus”) and heterogenēs (“of different kind”). In addition, there are at least 58 Greek proper names built on the -genēs stem, like the common Diogenēs (“born of Zeus”).[3] Since these are names presumably given by parents to their children, we may assume they generally have some connection with the embodied reality of biological offspring, rather than the abstract notion of species or kind. The list of -genēs words and proper names continues to grow as we move forward into medieval (Byzantine) Greek. Taken together, this wealth of -genēs words constitutes critical data demonstrating that the -genēs stem strongly encodes notions of derivation, offspring, and begetting throughout the history of the Greek language. But what about the etymological argument that the -genēs portion of monogenēs comes from genos (“kind”) rather than gennao (“beget”)? This argument collapses once it is recognized that both genos and gennao derive from a common Indo-European root, ǵenh (“beget, arise”).[4] This root produces a fair number of Greek words having to do with biological concepts of begetting, birth, and offspring. In fact, the word genos itself sometimes means “descendant” (Rev. 22:16). True, it can also mean “kind” in a scientific or classification sense where literal biological descent is not in view (e.g., “different kinds of languages” [1 Cor 14:10]). But the scientific or classification usage is a metaphorical extension of the literal biological sense, since the abstract concept of “kind” is modeled on the embodied biological experience of the similarities shared by offspring descended from a common parent." ..... W. E. Vine, p. 811, or from monos (alone) and ginomai (to come into being) - pp. 1667 and 1640, New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #3439, 3441, 1096. It literally means "onlyborn" or "onlybegotten" and is used with this sense no matter how it is translated In the book "Systematic Theology" it mentioned historically the word "only begotten" referred to a father’s or mother's role in the birth of a child, which means at one point in time that child didn't exist. But in 1886 various New Testament scholars began to challenge the meaning of only begotten so that it doesn't mean beget.

[@HowToGetSaved...Love.Taylor]

Thank you; I really appreciate this answer. I wish there was a clear way to describe the word begotten, Son of God, and Son of Man to Mormons. It's frustrating to me that I keep pointing out John 1:1-3, 14 to Them, and they can't see that Jesus wasn't a created being. Almost everyone I've ever known is Mormon.

[@macumus]

Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit always were. Begotten means He was sent to earth by the Father.

[@NomosCharis]

That would mean he wasn't "Son" before being sent to earth, and that God wasn't "Father" either. 🤔🤨

[@The_True_]

Yeah. Begotten in human flesh by the Spirit of God directly.

[@The_True_]

@@NomosCharis Only from our perspective, but God is outside of time space and causality, declaring the end from the beginning. The lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, all is seen by God from beginning to end in all detail at one time. That's why our understanding is so limited, we don't see the way God sees.

[@macumus]

No, He was still Son, He just wasn’t begotten until He came to earth.

[@NomosCharis]

@@macumus what kind of son is not begotten? In what sense is that a son?

[@离观]

Jesus is called the best and special son of God, because Jesus is free from the original sin (the sinful nature) and completely knows God’s will. He is God Incarnate, who came to the world to fulfill God’s will to save the world. For more details, please watch the sermon of the Light of Wisdom Church, welcome everyone to study and discuss together. Video “Is Jesus God’s Only Begotten Son? I Am the way, the truth and the life 05 #lightofwisdomchurch”

[@Vinegarissweet]

I wish these videos had captions.

[@dclark6995]

When God left the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross (Matt @ KJV) and he died (John 19:30) His soul and the thief's went to Paradise (Luke 23:43) which was Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:19-31) . Abraham was able to talk to the the rich man who was in torment while Abraham was in paradise with Lazarus. So Christ also could proclaim to those in prison His work of Salvation while He awaited in Paradise for His resurrection three days later. When The Lord Jesus' soul reentered his dead body on the third day and was resurrected to life, He appeared to Mary M. He then told her He was ascending to His God (John 20:17} The two angels at the tomb brought the risen Son of God as the Son of Man before the Ancient of Days where He was eternally begotten and morphed into the God Head (Daniel 7:13,14; Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33 KJV) Mat @-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

[@danielukpong4675]

Correct precious brother, but do not forget to rightly divide between the Man Jesus Christ and the Son of God (God the Son that He is). That He was Manifest in the Flesh (1Tim 3:16, John 1:14) as Immanuel does not mean that He ceased to exist as God the Son. Neither does it mean that He ceased to be God sitting on His Everlasting Throne in Heaven...Do we not remember, Ps 119:89 Forever O LORD thy Word is Settled in heaven. This is the God of Heaven, the God of ALL Creation by Whom the INVISIBLE Eternal Father Sustains All Creation and in Him all things consist. He was 100% God (ie the Son of God) and 100% Man (the Son of Man) ALL Creation Remained/Remains in continual Existence just because His is Continually doing His own job as the Son of God (Hebrew 1:3). So despite the fact that He was fully here on earth (ie came down from heaven) as the Man Jesus Christ of Nazareth did not mean He left His Eternal Throne in heaven as the Lord of Host, the God and ruler of heaven and earth. But was still fully there as God (John 3:13). So, He was exercising His dual nature separately and in unity. That is He still functioned as God and Man in one and separately. He did everything to save us as the Man not the God. As the Man Jesus Christ He did not think Himself as God although He knows He is (Phil 2:6). Please listen to "Understanding the Glorious Mystery of the Only Begotten Son of God". God bless. Here is the link:

[@LordDirus007]

Why would The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit be separate in Heaven? Wouldn't it make sense that they are one in Heaven but 3 on earth?

[@nmm5214]

Try not understanding The Word of God and you will open the way for God to impute His Understanding of The Word of God unto you.

[@theautisticpage]

Try understanding what mythical religions are. Do you realize you said not to think? Every cult says don't think about it, just accept the teaching without thinking. If you think your god gave you a brain then use it.

[@danielukpong4675]

Not altogether so brother, the word said lean not to our own understanding but He commanded us to ask and seek for wisdom from God and the Holy Spirit; the Great Teacher, Helper, Counselor and Comforter will guide us into all Truth giving us the full assurance of understanding (Col 2:3). That we may Know Him the Only True God and Jesus Christ whom He hath sent. Therefore God wants us to believe as well as understand Him and His Word. He is not as the Tyrant religions of the world who have not light or truth in the but are afraid that their lies will be exposed and disgraced. God is Light and Love and in Him is no darkness at all. The more you know Him, is the more you will appreciate, love and worship Him for Who/What He is. God bless.

[@danielukpong4675]

@@theautisticpage You are correct sir, not to think is not to be wise. But you are wrong to disbelieve the Living God of all Wisdom and Truth. As humans we believe and thing only of the facts that our 5 senses declare. However, Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Way and the Live and He supersedes any fact that the five senses can declare. God bless.

[@theautisticpage]

@@danielukpong4675 That is exactly what anyone would say that does not have a real gos. So your god is just as good but no better than a god that does not exist.

[@theautisticpage]

@@danielukpong4675 lean not on your own underatanding. In other words your god wants you to remain as stupid as possible.

[@Maninthemiddle514]

To say he was vegotten and not made is to say the word begotten doesnt mean to create when it actually does... past participle: begotten 1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction. "they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen"

[@kiwihans100]

Why make the 'Nicean creed' a touchsone of truth in this matter?The history of what actually took place, the venue, Emperor's palace, the time, 300 years AFTER Christ, the influence of Constantine, the behaviour of the 'bishops who argued, shouted, threatened and bickered all reminds us of James 3:13-17 where such evidences of base, wordly behaviour is the 'earthy, animalistic, demonic, NOT the 'wisdom from above'. How could God have blessed such a non christian atmosphere? So we shouldnt base our beliefs on such a departure from the way the early christians met and discussed matters. ( Read Acts 15, the first council in Jerusalem. James the moderator concluded with the words "We have come to a unanimous accord". Jesus also said 'No house built on a poor foundation will stand ( Matt 7). Nicea was a true evidence that the church had become apostate and this fulfilled exactly Pauls prediction at Acts 20:30 and i Tim 4:1,2.

[@mbwelsh65]

Good points about council of Nicea.

[@roeltingzon758]

Correct!...the so-called 'Christianity' during the time of the Nicean council was actually a corrupted & diluted form of Christianity!...Jesus prophecy of an falling away or Apostasy had already happened after the death of all the Apostles of Jesus, whom apostle John writer of book of Revelation was the very last of them. Apostle Paul too warned about such an apostasy when he said that 'ravenous wolves' would enter in among the early first century christians to corrupt them with false teachings i.e. the Trinity and others...and it was fulfilled. Constantine then legalized the corrupted apostate Christianity as the State religion where christendom arose.

[@maxz9839]

I understand the word is God, and was with God before all things. My question is, was Jesus only begotten after introduced to His human nature? Or was the word begotten before all things? I’d take it that the first is true.

[@ricklamb772]

Jesus was birthed from God the Father in heaven,thats why He is His Son.Because He is His Son,everything else was created from outside of God by His mighty power. Kind of like ,you get married and have a son.and then later you adopt a child.You can love them both,but your blood is your ancestry. Your birthed son has your genetic attributes, and has the inclination to do as you do. Same as Jesus,He is His Fathers Son,full of Godly attributes. And they have a deep Father ,Son relationship bond,that cannot be broken.

[@JohnBarr-r5b]

You quote John. But what do Matthew and Luke say?

[@gladiatoranc]

Is it correct to say that Jesus Christ is the Spirit of God incarnated in a made human body? The body of flesh which Christ dwelt in was made and did not exist for eternity, but the eternal Spirit of God dwelt in this human body. Is my understanding correct? Therefore when we say Jesus Christ was made or not made, both statement are true and would depend on what angle we look at.

[@joop6463]

you are a human spirit in jesus case GOD, you have a soul and live in a body. your body is not you your consciousness/spirit is you

[@sja4954]

Scripture teaches about the only begotten Son of God clearly. Begotten Son of God isn't termed in the biological sense concerning Christ says the scripture. Read the decree of God in Psalm 2:7 which later is taught by the Apostles in Acts 13:33-34 as raised / Resurrected / lifted up. Continue reading verse 35 which says, Thou shalt not suffer thy Holy One to see corruption. In Verse 37 Apostle says whom God raised (Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee) Begotten Son of God is preached by the Apostles, which means the raised Christ. In Verse 38 & 39 through this man (Begotten Son) forgiveness of sins and justification by the Law of Moses is preached. In verses 40 & 41 Apostle is warning the despisers quoting a prophesy (….a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you) not to perish but believe in his begotten Son. In the gospel of John 3:14 Jesus Christ spoke about the only begotten Son of God through the Old Testament prophetic verse. In Verses 3:15, 16 & 18 John established the truth about the only begotten Son of God, which scripture talk’s later Marvelous truth. Muslims / Yahweh Witnesses aren't given by God this Truth. In Psalms 110: 1 & 4 the begotten Son is at the right hand of God which is sworn in as a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek in eternity. The writer of Hebrews in 5: 5 & 6 high lights the begotten Son after the order of Melchisedec. In Hebrews 5:9 & 10 & 11 we read God calling the eternal author and savior as the high priest after the order of Melchizedek, of whom we have many things to say. In Hebrews 5:4 we read that no man taketh this honor unto himself (self-appointed or esteemed). In Hebrews 5:5 Jesus was not made a high priest but the risen Christ (Begotten Son) was glorified after the order of Melchisedec by God. In Hebrews 6: 17 - 20 we read about God’s Immutable counsel unto the heirs by an oath confirmed by two Immutable things. Christ fled for refuge into the veil to lay hold upon the hope set before us as a forerunner. As the begotten Son of God entered within the veil He was made a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. In Hebrews 7 we read about Melchisedec in plenty and in Chapter 8 as well. The Begotten Son links with The King of Zion & The order of Melchisedez. Praise God Hallelujah

[@TeresaMalinao-d1n]

Begotten from the bossom of the father. The whole ribcage is the bossom. Just like eve was taken from the ribcage of Adam. Then Adam said." flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone" Can the father ,do it to himself? Absolutely. He can be what He want. He begot Jesus from His very DNA.

[@understandingthescripture2907]

This has been a mystery to man, did God create Jesus. It’s so much that God will let us know because our little finite minds can’t understand grasp the things of God.

[@demarpowell2654]

No he didn't Create Jesus.. Jesus came from God

[@indianocean7271]

Why does the nicene creed say we believe in 'one God (the Father)' maker of all things and then not repeat that for Jesus but say 'one Lord' and no mention of Jesus being the maker of all things as you propose John 1:1-2 says? Why is it not We believe in one God, Father, Son and Spirit, who made all things?

[@xammocoloniax]

İf Jesus was fully human, and only the human Jesus supposedly died (because God can't die), how is there salvation from human blood?

[@cyrillesimplice1897]

Pastor John, your explanations are not harmonous with the Bible, and I am going to show you why. According to the first chapter of the gospel of John, there are two persons in the beginning, yet evangelist want to make us swallow their doctrine of trinity were there are three persons in the beginning... I am sure you are going to point me Genesis one; but if you do that, it means two things : or the Bible contradict Itself, or you didn't understand It... Do you thing "the beginning" is a horizontal line where what is above is uncreated and what is under is created ? Because that is the real problem of the evangelical understanding of the term "in the beginning". The acurate way to understand that expression (the harmonous way too), is to consider "the beginning" as a period of time that God and Jesus successively created all things. You will encounter that way of expression with the "end of time", because according to the apostles epistles, the end of times had started since the first century. To understand the Bible, we have to harmonise all the parts, if not, our understanding is wrong, because the Bible doesn't contradict Itself. About the Son, the Bible clearly said "He is the FIRST BORN OF THE CREATION" now, you can try to explain this to make it fits with your doctrines, but what the Bible says speaks for itself. The Son also says : "I am tha Alpha and the Omega, THE BiGINNING and The END" how then you, a pastor said that Christ has no beginning ? He says HE IS THE BEGINNING ! And the Bible, in Hebrew 1:5 says this : "For to which of the angels did God ever say: You are my Son, I have begotten you this day? And again: I will be a father to him, and he will be a son to me?" I have begotten You THIS DAY proove that yesterday you where not begotten, or the moment before you were not begotten, that mean a BEGINNING IN TIME, even if it is far way back in time before everythings. And Proverbs 8:22 enlighten us with what i have just said. The bad thing today is that, people are trying to explain the Scriptures according to their doctrines, instead to modify their doctrines to fit into what the Bible really shows. That is a real problem ; and a lot of people are deceived by theses teachings...

[@MerkabaKid]

Thank you 🕊 Here`s a thought I had after listening to your sermon. You said that the word always existed.. The scripture says.. "In the BEGINNING was the word.." there was a biginning of the Son.. when he was begotten.. God always exists, there is no beginning of God.. so there was a time when the word did not exist, before he was begotton, and so, had a beginning.This ties in with what Jonnathan Edwards said about God, when viewing His own deity, in the viewing thereof, brings into existence, all that He is.. begetting the word, the Son of God, who is everything that God is because God was viewing Himself. And if God is everything, then He also has to exist And be begotten.. and Jesus, although he was begotten, can rightfully say that He is the Alpha and the Omega because He is everything that God is 🕊

[@frei2934]

yeah i get you but my toughts that In the Beginning refers not to Jesus as the beginning it refers more to the Beginning of the Creation trough the Word so in The Beginning WAS(THE Word already was its not begotten!) the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and why is than the Word God? so God has a Beginning? No cleary not if we read on All things were made by him trough Jesus the Word that is God.

[@danielukpong4675]

Note: "In the Beginning was the Word" does NOT mean that the Word came to being in the Beginning. NO!!!. The Beginning is the Beginning of Creation and Time BUT the Word was in/came from Everlasting [Micah 5:2] (not in Creation or Time ie the Beginning). Everlasting (which I call the Eternity of the Son [is a Super Subset of the Absolute Infinite Eternity of the Father]). The Word came forth from God when in the Absolute Eternity, the Eternal God who has no beginning nor ending Began Himself or began His Ways (Prov 8:22) or Formed Himself (Isaiah 43:10) in Everlasting. Before Everlasting ie in the Absolute Infinite Eternity the Word was alive and existed IN the Father as His Eternal Living Thought (or Self Image) of God the Father's Person. Then in Everlasting God the Father Spoke Himself (the Father) out of Himself as His Eternal Living Word (the Image or

[@danielukpong4675]

@@frei2934 You are correct the Beginning is the Beginning of Time and Creation; BUT the Word (or the Son of God) is from Everlasting (Micah 5:2). Please patiently listen to my "Understanding the Glorious Mystery of the Only Begotten Son of God" and it answers this questions. Sorry for the ineloquence and poor quality but it has what you need. Here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4vIoYKYeNhgbJo

[@rexjamerson9316]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth. Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew word for God is Elohim. A plural of El or Eloah. Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...". Who exactly is God speaking to here? No, it cannot be angels. How does one explain Hebrews chapter 7 if you believe Christ is a created being? "For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually." So, whoever this person is has had no genealogy nor beginning of days or end of life. Who else could that be talking about other than Jesus Christ! It does not and cannot fit anyone else! 1st Corinthians 10:4 speaks of Christ being the God of the Old Testament. In the Book of Daniel we have an absolutely fascinating vision which reveals much about the nature of God. Daniel 7 "“I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire; A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened." Verse 13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him..." Here we see clearly see there are two Divine beings being revealed here from one of the greatest prophets of all time, the Prophet Daniel. As an additional point, there is no Holy Spirit revealed here and so I believe the scripture, because the holy spirit is not a third member of the godhead of the trinity! But that's another issue that would require further proof. Enough said.

[@cbooth151]

It's not the Bible that says Jesus was begotten, not made. That foolishness came from the apostate Nicene Creed of 325 CE. As it says: "To beget means to become a Father of a child. So, to say Jesus was begotten, not made borders on stupidity. A person cannot be begotten, not made. Jesus clearly had a beginning. As he said at John 6:57: "The living Father sent me, and because of him I live also."

[@atajoseph]

Delete this nonsense

[@cbooth151]

@@atajoseph Maybe when you're older you will see that "begotten" and "made" mean the same thing. In the mean time, go worship a statue.

[@atajoseph]

@@cbooth151 maybe if you actually knew church history and some basic form of Greek you'll understand.

[@cbooth151]

@@atajoseph I already gave you some Catholic Church history. As I said, it's not the Bible that says Jesus was begotten, not made. That nonsense came from the Nicene Creed of 325, which was written hundreds of years after the NT was completed. "Begotten" and "made" mean the same thing. When a father begets his son, he becomes responsible for bringing his son into existence. He makes his son. To say something is begotten, not made is utterly stupid!!

[@mbwelsh65]

The bible says godhead, not trinity

[@titotyrone9178]

I still don't get it. From what I've read I took from it that God the Father created Jesus. Jesus is the visible representation of the Father. His Son. Jesus always told us to worship the Father. That He could only do what the Father told Him and do what He seen the Father do. I find myself following what the first 3 gospels, especially since I saw in the foot notes that the earlier versions of the book of John did not contain certain verses. Like the famous story where the priest brought to Jesus the woman caught in adultery n He said Let he without sin cast the 1st stone. Dont get me wrong I believe that we can only be saved through Jesus. I just dont understand how He can be equal to the Father. He Himself worshipped the Father and made statements that there are things He can not do and did not know but only the Father. If you could clarify I would love it. I just dont understand...and I don't want to be wrong. Ty

[@macumus]

Actually, Jesus is the Creator of all things in Heaven and on earth (Col.1:16). Jesus always was and always will be, like the Father. John, and the rest of the Bible, is God’s word. The story of the women caught in adultery is indeed in the earliest manuscripts. Jesus is Yahweh (Lord). If you don’t believe that then you don’t believe in Jesus. He is equal to the Father (Phil. 2:6). Was God manifested in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16). In Him dwells all the fullness of Deity of the Godhead (Col 2:9). You should really read Colossians it will help you with that. John, arguably the greatest gospel, states that He is God explicitly. Your just not a Christian if you don’t believe that Jesus is God.

[@gokartbob6478]

@@macumus sure, just post that verse where "Jesus says he is God" ??

[@MonetisaArtist]

@Gokart Bob it’s too much information readily available to be asking people to spoon feed you

[@gokartbob6478]

@@MonetisaArtist to hard for you to post a verse either. LOL

[@MonetisaArtist]

Gokart Bob macumus literally broke it down for you what more do you want

[@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat]

Hear me out and stow the heresy haranguing... The use of the word "Begotten" as a past particle descriptor for Jesus' entrance into our ephemeral plane in John 3:16 can hold such sublime significance if we embrace its possibilities rather than just suppose Christ as this lingering spiritual appendage perpetually existing in timelessness without any known pertinent purpose aside from a fleeting temporal dust up to prove parental passion by putting humanity on track for a easier opportunity to qualify for epiphanous post-life harmony within the unfathomable glory of our father God. Can't the Son have been eternally "brought fourth" by way of always being notioned for eventual designation in not a too dissimilar way that an architect may plan, or an artist might conceive, or an inventor should eureka - well prior to manifestation? But first it would be beneficial to recognize that God requires no eternal Son for His infinite efficiency. Only an incarnated Son for a specificity. It's always a curious turmoil as to why some of the faithful can allow themselves to feel antagonized and even scandalized by even entertaining the quite lovely perception toward the person of Jesus as being an ingenuity of God's creative determination. I submit that when the vagueries of the archaic English term "Begotten" is sanwitched between the possessional context of 'God's" and the intentioned outcome of "Son" it can elegantly be inferred a refinement by divine proximity for a more poetic expansion of spiritual meaning beyond merely being "only inseminated and brought about by birth" into an emphatic testimony of being "uniquely derived and singularly embued" in reference to the exclusive conscience properties of God. To me, "Begotten" is an astonishingly powerful term of singularly seminal resolution and sacrifice. It seems Jesus as a flesh body amongst us under a constructed lineage and name must sensically in deed be a soley designed entity for aspecting God. Jesus' consciousness is directly derived from the eternal God almightly rather than merely a facsimile of some of God's core attributes as the rest of His earthly children's souls reflect. He's an authentic seeded and born man quite deliberately, as a partitioned authoritized proxy of God Himself for earnestly experiencing His creation in intimate fellowship and ministery with us His created by sharing our plights and delights on our terms from the perspective of our souls' limited state of temporal toil. God meeting with us on this equal plane as a contemporary is the ultimate act of empathy and most profound exampling of the humility we are called to emulate. Before Jesus' conception, He was not distiguished separate from the holistic entity of God's tri-omni absolute creative rule. On earth, Jesus is God purposefully limiting a segmented off representation of Himself from all the infinite power, presence and knowledge which God must inherently retain at all times and which cannot therefore be fully contained and contended within a created vessel of His particularly specified will for but a singled out matter of concentration. Video Games now are an avenue into starting to possibly better comprehend the dynamics of the relationship. As the avatar that you play in the virtual world is a limited representation of the whole dimensionality possesed by the long previously existing and discretely breathing player behind the controler who negotiates their effigy around in the mere created simulation of the game. So in other words, while that character you're playing is acting out your volition as it applies to that milieu - and even as you are invested to motivate its every decisive motion moving toward an objective which you have chosen to pursue - simultaneously behind the controller you continue to contend with other tasks of your broader reality which does not and cannot be burdained upon the capacities of that figure of your intention which exist only in the game created simulator. Outside of that game you're still inhaling and exhaling, communicating for a result in other things, still swallowing, eating and drinking, scratching an itch, your physical organs are still processing, you are simultaneously thinking of multiple things unrelated to what your virtual character is going through even as you do concentrate devoted attentions on accomplishing his ends as well. So is your avatar in that simulation you (?) - well for all intents and purposes relevant to the tasks in that simulation the answer is yes, but transcendentally of that prospect then the answer becomes more accurately yes but not entirely. So then how unfathomly more must God be moving seperately from His temporal dimensioned human proxy? Therefore shouldn't we logically surmise earthly Jesus has to be the Son, as the Father has more business than can be privy to the authentic human experience which was His proxy Jesus' mission to complete? Once His earthly mission was accomplshed, while the life experience of Jesus must be uniquely considered, Christ is no longer a partitioned aspect of the Father as His Son, but rather They are again He - as in One - and so too is His Holy Spirit which descends upon us as a beacon of His beckoning to comfort and lead us in His purposeful directions. Another thought is how we precieve each other over the phone. We indentify the voice being picked up by a microphone wiring and processed through a complicated signal out to a speaker as still being a person, although it is a manifestation of that individual's personality being somewhat accurately represented for communication without actually being all that that person truly is or can be. If we have aspects to ourselves which are identified in separation as still being us, then just try to imagine what our infinite Creator can aspect. That's a fashion for how I articulate my limited grasp on the subject anyway. The scriptures wisely do not bother wasting energy in attempting to detail more of the unmanageably complex and ultimately arbitrary convolution to the exact machinations for such an abstruse concept. Though certainly it does specifically detail that its primary figure who is called by the common name of Yeshua was particularly prepared from the lineage of God's chosen people who preserved His prophets for a designated time to be seeded by God and birthed for God's personalized solutions. For my reckoning "Begotten" is a sublime window into the wonders of our Creator's divine designs and destinations as conducted through His own limb's ingenuity that at times seemingly act independent from one another whilst still actually being deliberately implemented by a singular mind with a harmonious goal. It's not a false teaching, it's an evident inevitability.

[@Angelliana666]

No he doesn't have two person that's were you wrong, God clearly said, there is no one before, after or beside him. Your wrong . Jesus was the form of the invisible god, Jesus was God himself. He was not the second person of God. He was God himself in the form of a man .

[@JudyAnn17]

The Son of God had a beginning. His personality had a beginning in past eternity or else he wasn’t begotten. He came from God. Born of God. How? We are not told. The Son of God is not as old as his own Father or else that wipes out a Father and Son Relationship. Trinity is a false doctrine.

[@paulnorton7139]

begotten means he was born of the spirit, in other words the spirit gave him his birth, but to be made is not to be created, it means to be revealed, thus made of a woman, its like putting coffee in a coffee pot to make the coffee, the coffee pot did not create the ingredience, it just made the coffee that was supplied by the one who put it there, hence, mary, jesus was not created by mary, he came through mary not from mary, he was begotten in heaven when the spirit spoke and the word he spoke he called his son, the son of god is the WORD, the son of man is called the son of man because he came through a huMAN, a woMAN thus son of man, but the man was already begotten by the father when he spoke and the word brought forth the man jesus that the father wanted to dwells in, as well, there is no thjree people in heaven, there is the spirit, [ father ] and his word the [ son ], eternal, there is no human son, there is the god/man, that came from heaven through mary to the world to redeem mankind, and went right back to where he came from, at least thats what jesus said about himslef, you are from beneath, i am from above, you no not whence i came or whether i go, but i no from where io came, and where i go, what and if you seen the son of man go back where he came from, there hath no man ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven even the son ofman that is in heaven, and he was standing right in front of them, boy he is awsome, greater than they give him glory for, like john the baptist said, there is a MAN that came before me, well john was born first so how could the MAN have come before john, because he was before me john said, do you see it yet, he that hath ears, HEAR, amen.

[@mitchellc4]

Not biblical The Son of God was begotten Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through The man God raised from the dead Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. -

[@PropheticPlaces-rm9lp]

Begotten Means Begotten Of A Woman. John Wrote In The Greek That Yeshua Is "The Only Begotten God" - John 1:18 Israel And All Else Are "Adopted" Children Of God. (Rom.8:14-16 - Rom.9:4) God Calls His Children Gods. - Ps.82:6

[@otienoroberts]

You are evaluating this thing from a human perspective. Jesus was begotten in the timeline of God, not in the timeline of creation and created beings such as ourselves. Yes he was begotten in eternity. From our perspective as created beings, eternity is since before the beginning of time, but God and Jesus are outside time and space, they were there before time and space because time and space were created by God through the son. As it is written in the Bible, God created everything through his only begotten son. Now the word begotten means that Jesus must have had a begining before time through his father. God must have been there before Jesus in the period before the beginning of time. That is why the bible is clear that he is begotten of the father. If they both existed at the same time from the beginning of eternity itself how would he be begotten of the father, and why does the bible tell us he is begotten of the father? That makes absolutely zero sense! The short of it is, at some point in eternity, he did not exist before he was begotten by the father. Its a very simple thing to understand, I wonder why so many pastors get it wrong. And another thing, there is no such thing as a trinity in proper Christianity. It is a pagan concept that has no place in proper christian worship.

[@demarpowell2654]

Very Good... Been waiting Forever For Someone To Say This

[@otienoroberts]

@@demarpowell2654 it's a simple point really, I wonder why pastors and other religious leaders don't get it. The bible says 'begotten,' how come people never ask themselves why he (Jesus) is said to have been begotten if they (Jesus and God) are one and the same and if they have both existed from the same time? Now people may say he was begotten when he was born into the world, but here is the kicker, the bible clearly says that he was begotten before the beginning of time. Why is such a clear thing so hard for people to understand I wonder, it's really baffling!

[@demarpowell2654]

@@otienoroberts exactly 😂😂... And if Jesus was begotten in time .. how did he qualify to die for our sins 😂.. that would make him an mortal And if Jesus exist with God at the same time.. why did he said " my father is greater than I" and why did he said " the father grant the son to have life within himself" 😂... Someone would be telling lieeee And why would the apostle say Jesus is the image of the 1 " invincible God" ... Bro these pastors are lacking.. trinity is Wrong and Oneness is wrong All is wrong... Triniune God is wrong .. I don't know what Will God Do With Us But Jesus Said the way was narrow

[@How.To.Get.Saved.]

Y'all, read and meditate on every word in John 1:1-3, specifically verse 3. 3. "All things were made by Him, and WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANYTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE. Jesus was not made, ya'll.

[@demarpowell2654]

@@How.To.Get.Saved. ye we know this bro ..

[@Shawn-q3x]

Believers must stop confusing people by saying Jesus is God. If Jesus is God, then he was looking up to pray to himself; he was saying “let this cup pass from me” to himself; he was saying “my Father which is in heaven” to himself. If Jesus is God, then in Hebrews 5:7, he was offering up prayers with strong crying to the only one who could save him from death, which would be himself. This cannot be. Never once did Jesus claim to be God; he is God's only “begotten” son. Begotten means “to bring into existence, give rise, or to bring about” (Colossians 1:15, 1:18). Jesus clearly states that he can do nothing apart from God's power/spirit, which lives in him and in me. When you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father also (John 14:10). We can be as one, even as they are one (John 17:22). God’s power in us doesn’t make us God. God has always been in heaven, but His power/spirit is everywhere.

[@LordDirus007]

Because Jesus has two natures. One Man, One God.

[@LordDirus007]

It says he lowered himself

[@LordDirus007]

You are confused because he speaks from two different natures. Actually he does it on the Cross. Watch his death in The Passion. "Father why have you forsaken me" Jesus the Man "It is accomplished" Jesus God

[@Shawn-q3x]

@@LordDirus007 Watch his death in The Passion? You want me to base my belief of his word from a man-made movie? And I'm the confused one? Jesus lowered himself. God did not. You say Jesus is God, so you're saying God died for us? GOD DIED for US? No, Jesus died for us so that we can reconcile with the Father. It is the Father's WRATH that abides on those who do not believe his Son; it is not the wrath of Jesus...it is the wrath of GOD. Repent, and GOD the Father will forgive.

[@the3lewisgirls]

@@LordDirus007 You are confused because you follow Baal sun god worshipping constantine and following manuscript corruptions of the greek from Jerome and Rufinus. Wakey wakey.

[@johnirish989]

Not in the least convincing. He doesn't even question the translation of John. Major red flag. Is the Father begotten? No. Once the Son is, all is made through Him. ONCE the Son is made. Does it say, therefore the Father could not have made the Son? It doesn't come close to saying that. Now if it dud that's a different story. But he's drawing that conclusion and again, don't forget the bright read flag. Taking a man's translation as a given.

[@johnirish989]

My translation? Say And God was the word. And the word was TOWARDS God. How can God be with God. For me I'll substitute the word Supreme for the Father. And the word was with the Supreme. If the Son is equal, it could be the case that the Son begets the Father.

[@johnirish989]

Right there. They are not equal. The Father annoints the Son. The Father sends the Son. The Son does the will of the Father. None of the converse are true. None. And one could go on and on.

[@williamvarley5876]

This is the fifth comment

[@TboneWTF]

Seriously? "begotten" or "made"? Your arguing semantics my friend. How about a middle ground? Christ was "birthed" by a woman. That sums it up nicely I'd say.

[@kevinwilson5711]

I disagree, that's not what it's saids or means. John 17 CHAPTER 1 u till the end. Revelation 3:14 John 14:38- John 5:56 psalm 2:2 (kiss the son) Matthew 221 until the end. Psalm 110:1 the Lord said to my Lord, sit on my right hand...1 corthian 15:24 I disagree totally. If the holly spirit did not share that with you. That of your own interpetion Not God's anointed inspiration.

[@danielerasmus8302]

BS

[@gokartbob6478]

The word BEGOTTEN means to be born, as in OFFSPRING, or DESCENDENT. And yes the bible says Jesus was MADE, Acts 2.36, Rom 1.3, HEB 2.9, 1Tim 2.5. Also Jesus was never called "deity"

[@janepatton8100]

🤔... Those scripture say the exact opposite of what you claim they say. As far as your claim that Jesus was never called a deity, Thomas would disagree... *(John **20:28**)* Thomas answered Him, *"My Lord and my God!"*

[@gokartbob6478]

@@janepatton8100 then you obviously don't know the meaning of the word deity. And that's the problem, people make up their own definitions.

[@janepatton8100]

@@gokartbob6478 Perhaps you're using your own definition... *Deity* _noun_ 1. divine status, quality, or nature. 2. the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity). noun: *Deity;* noun: the *Deity*

[@gokartbob6478]

@@janepatton8100 now explain why that word is not used in any bible?

[@gokartbob6478]

@@janepatton8100 Vocabulary.com DictionaryAdvanced Search List Builder Random Word begotten Something is begotten when it's been generated by procreation - in other words, it's been fathered. A somewhat old fashioned adjective, begotten is the past participle of the verb beget, which means to father or produce as offspring. You might recognize this word from John 3:16, one of the most popular and most often quoted bible verses: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Start learning this word Think you know begotten? Quiz yourself: ASSESSMENT: 100 POINTS Which of these could be said to be begotten? the wailing of wind through the treesthe items left in the lost and foundthe puppies belonging to a litterthe books borrowed from a library Add to List... Thesaurus Share It Definitions ofbegotten 1 adj(of offspring) generated by procreation “naturally begotten child” Synonyms:biological of parents and children; related by blood