desperation move

[@kostaxz4350]

Engin lost to Kings and is salty about it thats all, PAL approves kings, WAF approves kings, its a tehnique, foul is a foul in every league its not an issue at all..

[@Hallowed_Ground]

Yeah he seems very bitter and pathetic.

[@michaelmerk64]

What is "kings"?

[@devoncyplenkov7746]

@@Hallowed_Ground Watch your tone. You are speaking to the 🐐

[@nembokid8]

@@devoncyplenkov7746 he is not speaking to John

[@pioneerman8467]

Hahah about time

[@BenXP8]

Devon vs. Dave Chaffee was the day arm wrestling died in WAL.

[@kurtbaki]

desperation move should be banned

[@qrockz007]

Ban Kings Move, at least rename it to kindergarden or looser move.

[@thedscale]

Disagree. If your arm is fully extended, whether your arm is pulled completely straight or pulled completely extended up to your elbow kink... YOU LOSE!

[@ElpresadorsBrother]

His arm can't even fully extend, which makes the move complete bullshit.

[@tomcohen2493]

it's not a rule currently, losing is only if your pinned.

[@rotten2209]

Since when?

[@HulkSmashB]

Doesn't matter if you disagree, it's within the rules and that means you're wrong.

[@josebarrera2040]

"Where you going buddy"

[@kishorekumar-vs4pu]

King's movie is a joke 😂bone locking isn't a arm wrestling anymore

[@FK-we1dp]

It’s not a bone lock you moron. That doesn’t make any sense. That would just be a broken elbow. The elbow joint is not strong without muscle activation holding it.

[@TV-eh9fi]

Its an armpulling. Haha

[@kishorekumar-vs4pu]

@@FK-we1dp you fool.. When your arm is fully opened and extended 180° then there is no point you Dumbass!!!

[@joestheguy]

Movie ? Lol moron

[@FK-we1dp]

@@kishorekumar-vs4pu lol if there wasn’t substantial muscle supporting the elbow at “180 degrees” the elbow would come apart under that amount of stress. It’s not a “bone lock” that doesn’t make sense.

[@spamfood9971]

The kings move is a joke. You shouldn’t be allowed to: -Straighten/lockout your arm -Lower your shoulder lower than the table -Have your elbow leave the pad (your tricep/back of your arm is not your elbow). Guys like Michael Todd wouldn’t be able to compete at the top level at all with obeying the suggested 3 rules above.

[@literalghost929]

Yep, clown refs is what make the KM such a joke. If someone wanted to use the KM within the rules, I'd be 100% fine with it. But the fact that the clown refs allow clown fouling KM is what makes it such a joke. IMHO, Devon's KM is fine; within the rules, but Todd's KM is crazy ridiculous, and that's what made him into a meme.

[@GeorgeSearsSolidusSnake]

100% right

[@bobomonkey702]

Kings move is for pussies.

[@sergeysmelnik]

You do realize your 3 points have nothing to do with a proper kings move? A real kings mover cant straighten his arm. There are other bone locks in arm wrestling that dont involve kings move. Its how some people have broken their arms. I agree on all 3 points, those are all fouls for any move. A proper kings move violates none of those. The best kings mover in my opinion is not michael todd or even crazy george. Its Denis Tsyplenkov. Yes denis has done the kings move against many opponents including brzenk, chaffee, lupkes and more. Hes so good at it most people never even noticed he did it in those matches. One of the main reasons is because his elbow lock is so early in his range of motion and because hes just so fundamentally strong. So no I dont agree that kings move is a joke. Eventually many arm wrestlers get to that point where they cant straighten their arms. So how do you not allow a kings move? Should there be a certain angle theyre not allowed to go past? How do you even ref that? If youre allowed to be in arm break position in a hook why cant you be in arm break position in kings move? And those amateur arm wrestlers fully straightening their arms and going fully under arent doing a kings move. That is trully a desperation move.

[@kevinwilbanks4481]

@@sergeysmelnik agree

[@1960taylor]

Kings move is a total joke ...should be banned

[@joestheguy]

Stfu

[@captainramius790]

Move on because its not going away. As long as your elbow is on the pad then they dont care. Also just because Todd is really good at it doesnt mean hes blatantly cheating. If it gave people such an edge a lot of other people would do it. Todd is still strong as f*ck and is skilled

[@Baruch-hashem-]

Kings move should be banned for ever.

[@TheForeheadOfDoom666]

Go away

[@sunshinesunshine2551]

Yes

[@MindRevVing84]

Kings move belongs to a league that screwed over Jerry. Keep shoulders above table and rest of world could take this move serious

[@Baruch-hashem-]

Yep

[@stephanie0108]

@Weghweh Hwewehwhe my dear sir referees do not interfere with armbars in mma or any jiujitsu tournament. You either tap or snap.

[@bobomonkey702]

@Weghweh Hwewehwhe Kings move is for pussies

[@imranzakir3427]

Agreed

[@qeva_]

And change your 9*7 Pillows to a 7*7 Pads

[@Niko9TG]

You guys need to stop this kings move and arm wrestle above the table. The Europeans are correct.

[@literalghost929]

Engin made quite a few good points, from memory: 1) When your arm is fully extended, you're using your body as leverage 2) When using the KM and fouling, already, most refs don't call the foul of shoulder below the table, or elbow off the pad but even if they do 3) a foul to gain such an advantage should result in a loss, not just a useless warning. Anyhow, IMHO, #1 the refs need to get their shit together. They suck. #2 if the refs did their job and called fouls, already the KM would become much less of an issue. Just look at who made the KM so hated; it's Micheal under the table Todd, and he fouls horrendously when he uses it. Just look at the last Devon vs Todd match, it was RIDICULOUS, the position MT gets into, with arm fully extended, with his FOREARM (not elbow) on the table and/or his shoulder under the table, it's basically impossible to beat; it's not even that leverage advantage is so great; if your elbow is behind the pad, and your forerarm is resting on the table or the pad, your opponent is pushing down the forearm directly on the table ... So yeah, fix the refs and the KM fixes itself, because it only becomes a huge issue when it's KM + fouling. Devon for instance is 10x cleaner (not fouling) when using the KM. But honestly, some of the matches become so ridiculous because the refs don't call fouls, at this point, banning the KM is the only thing to do if the refs can't do their damn jobs.

[@johnbraucher1499]

Wtf is this body leverage shit? Since WHEN can you NOT use body weight? Toproll, hook, all of it uses body weight. You are leaning your ENTIRE body no matter WHAT match you watch with anybody thats pro. So tired of hearing about body weight. If you wanna just sit there and watch two guys pull on each other's arms for 3 seconds and it's over, go to another sport. Please, for God's sake. Body weight has been used since WAY back.

[@bobomonkey702]

Also Wal also has larger pads that go to the back of table. 7x9. Wal encourages circus Arm Wrestling that looks silly and armwrestling will never become main stream sport with guys hanging under the table. Any average person looking at that and think what in the world are they doing. Imagine doing the kings move at school lunch room table. Your friends would laugh at you.

[@literalghost929]

@@johnbraucher1499 "Wtf is this body leverage shit?". It basically means that if you replaced your arm with a wooden rod, when you're using the DESPERATION move, you don't need a single arm muscle. Your weight does all the work; it's like a lever; the fulcrum is the pad, your opponent is trying to push down and is trying to lift your entire body upwards. In a 'legal' KM position; you can't rely on locking up your arm; because your arm is flexed, you have to rely on your muscles to resist your opponent, you can't simply rely on your body weight.

[@Ivansanchezczo]

Perfectly said my friend, never better articulated. Listed Devon, maybe you can learn from Literal Ghost !!!

[@MrCineris]

Just level the pad with the table and bam, it’s gone.

[@MM-xs1qm]

Devon I love ya, but your twisting what engins saying; he has no issue with the kings move (the correct legal Kingsmove) but more the way it’s being used to cheat in a match, the main issue he’s citing is the elbows off the table (as kings movers are resting their tricep on the pad not their elbows in the kings move) and their shoulders going below the table. This type of kings move essentials give those with lack of elbow mobility which is essentially a disability due to their bone locking prior to full extension which gives them a major unfair advantage (it’s sending the wrong message the naive arm wrestlers that they need an injury such as this to be able to get the most out of a move such as the kings move ) Honestly Devon has always been pro king move prior to this Drama so I believe Devon when he says he’s pro kingmove , but I feel he’s gone so off the deep-end with how extreme his stance in support of the kings move is and with how it’s currently being used (in the illegal way i mentioned above). Devon was a monster in the hook when he was smashing everyone, but ufortunately after Devon had his elbow surgery it seems he cannot commit his strength to his elbow in the hook as before and now has adopted and open hand top roll style like MT has. Guys don’t jump to conclusion with what Devon saying here about Engins distaste for the king move which is not the case at all and Engin makes this clear, his issue is the move being used in illegal fashion I want to make it clear this comment is in no way any hate toward Devon, I’m a massive fan of his and never heard of Engin until recently, but it’s clear what Egin means when he blasting the ‘kingsmove’ and majority of arm wrestlers and non arm wrestlers will agree with Engin if they actually watch his recent video. Yes Engin could be more proper about why he has an issue with the kingsmove rather than making it personal to specific arm wrestlers and going at Devon, but also same speaks to Devon in making it seem Engins just some lunatic in order for viewers to dismiss Engins comments about the Kingsmove

[@seanlennon5986]

Agree fully

[@smokysmoka]

yes that!

[@literalghost929]

5 stars, would read again. :)

[@harsharya08]

just call the foul

[@jedsteelwell2354]

@@harsharya08 problem is old Bart wood don't call those fouls

[@slodkoejka1266]

Here we are again... I would have to side with Engin on this. There has to be a red line or some rule on how much you can extend your arm. The desperation move OR when the shoulder falls below the elbow (basically, the whole body is under the table) should be banned by all wrestling leagues: 1. There is a huge risk of a trauma 2. When one's shoulder is below the elbow line, it is anatomically impossible to pin this arm without breaking it Allowing this madness just so that weaker armwrestlers had a chance to win the match is absurd

[@rileyneufeld7001]

1. Professional armwrestlers have the right to break their own arm. In amateur tournaments I agree 100% dangerous position and stop the match. 2. If I'm stuck in a joint lock hook and keep my shoulder committed inside, it is impossible to beat me without breaking my arm.

[@larjkok1184]

2. No. With your shoulder below the table level you can still rotate your arm so that your wrist touches the table. There’s nothing anatomically that stops this.

[@ElpresadorsBrother]

No Devon. Engin is right, this is a completely bullshit bonelock move that most people don't like. Sorry bud

[@dustinirwin1]

Engin isn't talking about a bone lock. You're adding to the confusion. Engin is talking about shoulder below the table. Shoulder above the table is fine, bone lock or not.

[@unfamousli]

@@dustinirwin1 u cant bone lock if ur shoulder is above the table, that was Engin's point in the video

[@pulse1001]

Thanks for keeping it real. A lot of idiot, Larratt fanboys aren't capable of doing so. This brings me great joy as a Larratt fan myself, as well as a huge fan of the sport. Wish I could heart your comment.

[@nopenottoday8490]

The Kings move is trash. Having your triceps on the pad does NOT mean it's your elbow. Stand like a man. Society keeps getting weaker

[@sergeysmelnik]

Tell that to Denis

[@nopenottoday8490]

@@sergeysmelnik Its trash

[@sergeysmelnik]

@@nopenottoday8490 Im not denis

[@nopenottoday8490]

@@sergeysmelnik The move is still trash

[@BenXP8]

@@sergeysmelnik Except that Denis never sank so low under the table like Devon or MT.

[@rustyspygoat4089]

Basically what you told Engin was: if you cheat you can beat guys that are stronger than you...

[@GinoNL]

Yeah. But devon would say; it’s not cheating, it’s technique.

[@rustyspygoat4089]

@@GinoNL yea sure, even cheating requires technique. That is not a sound argument

[@GinoNL]

@@rustyspygoat4089 I know, I agree with you. Just saying what Devon would say :p

[@itswhathappensyo]

Kings move is bull, ruins the sport

[@burt591]

Mark my words, if this is allowed to continue like this, there will be the day when both armwrestlers will be doing the kings move under the table for half an hour, both of them defending and not wanting to attack. The rules need to be more strict or this is gonna ruin the sport

[@PawanKumar-vr2uz]

Its not that easy move and everyone can't do that. And it is beatable, john, devon, trubin, pushkar, denis, they all showed us how to win it without making shitty excuses like engin(when he lost).

[@PawanKumar-vr2uz]

@Bronzepitbull yes watch it and you will find that Dave can't do this move effectively, he was actually doing that in desperation to win(you can see him in the video getting frustrated to win the match in anyway). And I am sure next time whenever he will be match against any king's mover, he will not use king's move like he used against devon, instead he would try John, trubin, devon, pushkar, Ermes and Denis's way to win the match.👍👍👍

[@oceanwaves83]

@@PawanKumar-vr2uz "it's beatable" isn't a valid argument. Lots of illegal tactics are beatable. The problem is that rules get broken due to bad refereeing. The fact of the matter is that when you are in a king's move, the ref spends more time watching your opponent's elbow as he desperately tries to pin you while assuming your elbow is on the pad because you are in a defensive position and your *arm* is clearly on the pad. Michael Todd has taken his elbow off the pad (forearm or tricep only) MANY times to take a massive amount of pressure off his elbow joint, which allows him to rely a lot more on his bone lock than could be possible within the rules. It makes his arm much harder to break and makes it overall much less painful. He also dips his shoulder underneath the table fairly often which allows him to start using his bone lock sooner, causing his opponent to expend precious energy, much more than would be needed within the rules. I have nothing against the king's move or utilizing the bone lock. But there is a major problem here that needs addressing. And a lot of people are unaware of this or pretend like it's not there. Look at WAL 403 and watch Todd's elbow, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Or watch Todd vs Pushkar and look for my comment which has a brief analysis. This is much more complex than being for or against the king's move, and denying such prevents the real issue from coming to the forefront.

[@PawanKumar-vr2uz]

@Bronzepitbull the same devon vs dave match. You are not getting it what I am saying, I am saying that when Devon started to use king's move against dave in that match then dave should have used John (and all those whose names i have written) way to beat devon but instead of that in desperation and frustration he too started to use king's move and dipping his shoulder below his elbow(fouling continuously) which cost him that match.

[@felipearmwrestler4852]

That kind of mess only works with WAL huge and fluffy elbow pads. I hope they change that shit

[@smokysmoka]

you can say what you want but when you and Todd make that move it's really bad to see. It really feels like non-technical desperation. I'm sorry but here in Europe you don't get off the shoulder like you do, that's more correct.

[@sebastianchavarria4976]

@Weghweh Hwewehwhe but Todd has been doing it for years... Devon has nothing to prove but it seems to me that Todd has no chance in world class heavyweight without using it

[@anthonyw9129]

I'm calling it The desperation move from now on. It's not the king's move anymore.... something with that name should look like the dad move and be dominant.

[@josebarrera2040]

Michael under the table todd is nobody without that ugly ass technique

[@PawanKumar-vr2uz]

Yess in Europe you will get bunch of cartoons using tons of roids to get unfair advantage over other and make a sport look like that it is something from another world and that's why some are banned from Olympics at many times😆😄 The point is simple, everyone do something to get advantage over other in some way, either by using those shifty roids or by using some technical aspects to get advantage over other strong opponents. Even Devon and Mike agress that when shoulder comes below the elbow in defensive position then its a foul, that's all. Stop bullshiting like engin everywhere.

[@adamyew8735]

Yes, the kings move is ugly. It would not look good for any armwrestling logo.

[@JoeyCorte]

Engin is right, kingsmove needs to be forbidden.

[@imranzakir3427]

Devon " under the table" Larratt.

[@hiramgarcialopez2125]

I wish this was a joke, but sadly it isnt

[@buffseven]

If Devon is under the table? then what do you call what Michael Todd is doing lol

[@EimbooSama]

Nope, thats Michael lol

[@michaelmerk64]

Engin understands it very well and he is right 100%

[@dkhoupt7205]

He literally went “below the table” in his match in turkey on dereks live feed

[@michaelmerk64]

@@dkhoupt7205 8.1.6 Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when in a neutral or losing position. This will be considered a dangerous position. The neutral position defined as the starting position down to 2/3 of the way to the losing side of the table.

[@dkhoupt7205]

@@michaelmerk64 I get that.. it’s from neutral to winning..

[@dkhoupt7205]

@@michaelmerk64 fairly sure engin states going “below the table” is a desperation move????

[@damasek219]

No, he doesn't. He understand it a little, but he's not willing to acknowledge the perfect legitimacy of the move.

[@josevegasaguinaga1159]

If the other was really stronger he would have not needed to use the "kings move", the problem with this technique is that it breaks the central purpose of the sport by relying almost completely on another type of force that is not that of your arms. The sport is called after all "armwrestling", don't get me wrong, I know perfectly well that many other factors come into play such as the back, posture, legs among others, but in the end the main one is and should be the strength of your arms. You are forced to resort to a position like that because you are clearly at a strength disadvantage and we get into a situation where there are only 2 paths left behind and neither of them is realistic whether they have to break your arm or force you to stay standing having to deal with almost your full weight because of how you are practically seated in order to win, that is where the essence of the sport is distorted.

[@kevinwilbanks4481]

I agree people rather see who is strong no who can lay their arm out at a angle

[@vinukarthick2065]

Do you think every move relies purely on arm strength? Doesn't any other move rely on body leverage?

[@tinman9193]

Even though King's move is allowed in AW it should be called desperation move that's more appropriate 👍👍

[@palaciosphotography1]

Kings move cheats the fans. We want to see who is the strongest...kings move sucks sorry Devon. Engin is right.

[@vinukarthick2065]

No sports in this world requires strength alone. Technique is also needed.

[@hiddendemon5597]

@@sezerokan4664 I disagree, this sport is about pinning arms to the pad, rules say how that can be done but the strongest hardest hitting ufc fighter sometimes gets heel hooked armbared or whatever and some people say that isn't proper fighting but hey

[@RaviShankar...]

@@sezerokan4664...is not the bone part of the arm??

[@dustinirwin1]

Engin isn't against the King's Move. Where'd you get that idea? Don't twist his words.

[@testudinebobby8532]

@@sezerokan4664 hem de öyle bir kemik sporu ki 😆

[@talatdymc6539]

I think Engin has a good point. As he said, when your opponents shoulder is below the pad, to win, you must either break his arm or make him feel so much pain so he jumps up. So he is right, this is not fair.

[@ezp9955]

I love you Devon, but even tho you explained how move is done, I still hate it. With all my respect, I don't give a damn about the fact that it's (still) allowed.. to me, it's just pathetic. Fight like a man, win/lose like a man.

[@doomeR_007]

The point he's trying to make is that everyone has his own definition of what is "fighting like a man" I agree with Engin tho once the arm is fully extended and the shoulder is below the table that's just bullshit

[@bal0ng10]

true. i see no strength vs strength fight. so gay moves. so "desperate"

[@ezp9955]

@@doomeR_007 I understand that it's a technique and all that, but I just can't really accept it. No hate tho. It's just my point of view. :)

[@doomeR_007]

@@ezp9955 I totally agree with you bro, it's just as engin said if it's an open toproll then it passes, but that Kingsmove bullshit is just crap, once the shoulder is below the table the game is already over

[@alexanderthegood3076]

loool my man... no diss, but that sounds dumb as hell. Armwrestling, along with any other "sport" has always favored the thinking man." fight like a man" meaning what? loool smh

[@bassmasta9117]

Let Ermes Gasparini test out that king's move again and we'll probably see him pin him again. But no one talks about that match...shhhh

[@stephanie0108]

Sir he lost to fouls

[@nm854]

@@stephanie0108 and? Ermes pinned Michael twice and he lost off of fouls. Michael didn't pin him once and he won.

[@stephanie0108]

@@nm854 unfortunately one pin doesn’t determine the winner now does it. Cant expect to pin someone if they foul out.lol

[@nm854]

@@stephanie0108 Its like winning an MMA fight that you won three rounds to two rounds but in those two rounds you get knocked down. Its not pretty is all I am saying and it makes Ermes look better than todd.

[@shadearca]

@@nm854 No, the correct comparison would be losing to disqualification for illegal strikes which is a thing in MMA and in every other fighting sport. For example headbutts, illegal knees, strikes to the back of the head can lead to deduction of points and loss by DQ. That is basically what Hermes was doing. Elbow fouling is illegal and he lost by DQ.

[@MelbourneMaster]

Just re-watched Engins in-dept video on the kings move where he is on armwrestling table. He explains all the biomechanical movements to perfection, and he is absolutely right about what he says. If you get below the pinpad, it should be a foul, a fully extended arm - also a foul. To be honest I think the two of you agree completely. But you (Devon) dont like the fact that Engin thinks its an ugly move. Which I think 99% of armwrestlers worldwide agree with. But saying he doesnt understand is definitely not correct, ive been following every single video on the topic and he definitely understands.

[@imranzakir3427]

Congrats guys. Mike resigned from his undertabling skills, we have a new undertabler in town.

[@vinukarthick2065]

Copy Cat. Think on your own.

[@gobberrit3474]

Wow I lost a little respect of Devon after seeing this video. Saying that someone with Engin's immense knowledge and experience "doesn't understand" the desperation move, seems to be an intentional low blow that stems from a possible insecurity on Devon's part. Does it really seem that crazy to Devon that Engin could understand the desperation move and still have an honest disagreement with him about it? I am not sure if Devon knows this but John Brzenk has shared a few criticisms of Engin's. Is Devon going to now say that the best armwrestler to have ever lived "doesnt understand" either? Perhaps Devon sees some truth in Engin's criticism, which may be why he consistently overcompensates his defense of using the move?

[@EthnHayabusa]

If I recall John also admitted (on RBowen's channel) that he didn't totally understand the move.

[@literalghost929]

Harsh! I watched a few days ago their 3am call... Engin was super defensive, and imho that is why there was nearly zero 'useful communication'... Listen to the clip again, as Devon says in the beginning, and IMHO: Engin's main issue with the King's move is the 'illegal' king's move; when there's fouling (elbow not on pad, shoulder below pad level, etc.), which makes it near impossible to defeat the KM, while Devon is talking about a 'legal' KM; where you're back but shoulder above pad level, elbow on pad, etc. IMHO, Engin needs to be less defensive than he was in their 3am call; and not view this as adversarial... If he does, pretty both would be 99% in agreement with each other. Because from what I remember from Engin's video about it; it applies to illegal KM, but not really to a legal KM... Well there's also language barrier; but again, imho, just a communication issue.

[@gobberrit3474]

@@EthnHayabusa I've seen the video with Ryan and John and At no point did John say that he doesn't understand the desperation move in the context u claim. He said as an armwrestling purist, he considers it laughable that it is even being used. Believe me, John knows the desperation move very well. One of his closest training partners (Bob Brown) uses the move. And let's not forget UAL8 when John Beat the move when Micheal Todd used it by saying "Where u goin buddy??" Right before smashing it to the pad. John understands the desperation move and completely defeated it

[@EthnHayabusa]

@@gobberrit3474 Not sure we agree, but it doesn't matter. I am sure you know that there is a back story to the "Where you goin' buddy?" match. Doesn't matter, all the best.

[@gobberrit3474]

@@EthnHayabusa Yea, I've seen some of M. Todd's made bad excuses about the match. He blamed his loss on Jerry forfeiting to John. He then cried and said he would have won the first round if it hadn't been stopped due to johns elbow foul (even though Micheal was the one who requested the stop by yelling "elbow! By god it was an inch off the pad, and u can't pin that arm", and John said "keep pulling"). Then in the 2nd round, John hooked him and Micheal was clearly parallel pinned when he pulled back to shift his elbow. Then Micheal pulled the sore loser temper tantrum by pulling a pad off the table and throwing it. Micheal is one of the sorest losers in armwrestling. Like when he refused to continue pulling Jerry in WAL even if the Referees disagreed. It was very unprofessional and it pissed the WAL brass off. I do agree that he won that match though. I just think he handled it badly."

[@ItalanFindart]

C'mon.... guy, please DO NOT talk about technique when arm wrestlers use the "under the table" fu...ing technique. Michael "underthetable" Todd is unable to win without hiding him under the table with his fully extended arm.

[@rotten2209]

Your ignorance isnt funny, it's just sad.

[@albertoannesi9540]

@@rotten2209 if you like watching a match where an arm wrestler like Michael "underthetable" Todd uses his "KING" move, I think you have a problem... or you do not love this sport enough!

[@bahasainggrisbersamamradi9308]

Kingsmove must be banned forever for the sake of armwrestling world

[@robertduncan8400]

Let’s be honest. Most of us watch arm wrestling because we’ve done it before growing up. It was a way to test your strength against your buddies. And if any of your buddies or anyone that you know tried a kings move then they would be mocked to no end. The same reason most people mock Michael Todd. Michael use to arm wrestle in a way that most would call respectable. But he wasn’t very good. He lost a lot. Or would struggle against lower level people. Now he does the kings move, a move that flirts with the idea of what’s legal and even more so what’s ethical. That’s why a majority of the fan base doesn’t recognize him as a real champion. That and his awkward emotional insecurities, but that’s a whole different conversation. Bottom line is the kings move is just very cheesy, especially the way that Michael executes it. And we will continue to laugh at him and the WAL in discuss until a rule is set in place to change this. Until then arm wrestling will remain a side show hobby rather than a respectable sport like Devan almost achieved.

[@vinukarthick2065]

I disagree with your first point. Arm wrestling is not just about strength. You cam also be a great technician with strength to be a good arm wrestler.

[@robertduncan8400]

@@vinukarthick2065 I absolutely agree with you. I wasn’t implying that it’s not about technique. I was referring to when your average guys arm wrestle they are more often then not just seeing who is stronger with little to know technique. Pro arm wrestlers use copious amounts of technique.

[@vinukarthick2065]

@@robertduncan8400 👍

[@alexandernanov3970]

I agree 100 percent. I think pretty much all arm wrestling fans agree with what you wrote. In my opinion Devon, Michael and WAL are actually hurting the sport instead of helping. I personally would never watch WAL event because of the unfair matches there.

[@brogrammer1995]

Argument makes no sense, most people would also mock when u "bend ur wrist" or "use ur shoulder" because most people don't watch actual arm wrestling.

[@XxVidMakerxX]

Michael is just listening and staring and blinking LOL!

[@bobcatman334]

Who all is ready for Michael to be dethroned. He must be living up not pulling anyone unless he gets paid to do it. I honestly don’t even think he would’ve beat jerry the last time they arm wrestled

[@rafeeqj8371]

he is a false king

[@attilahun8541]

“It is not armwrestling its Statue of Liberty“ - Mr.Terzi- 🤣🤣 he made my day

[@wicked1707]

Dropping under the table to create an upward angle of the arm which cant be pinned unless you break the arm, shouldn't be legal.

[@osvaldosolis1381]

Michael like yeah yeah

[@MrKoclint]

I love how jerry held his phone up for 5 mins to film this!

[@ljgarrison6910]

If the upper arm is level with the pad and shoulder, it should be a foul

[@Adrostos]

desperation move (lets not call a cowardly defensive movement a "kings move") should be essentially a foul. if you fully extend your arm or extend it to the limit that it can be extended- which can be looked at prior to the match beginning- then it should count as a pin. watching someone like undertable todd leverage his body weight against his opponent while he effortlessly sits back on them just creates a bad taste in the mouth of fans. say what you want, but its certainly unhealthy for the sport. and yea sure its something you can do, but only because certain rule sets allow it. again whether you like it or not the most important part of this is that the fans of the sport by majority hate seeing it.

[@damasek219]

All the rulesets allow it and fans like it. Fans like to see creative ways of winning.

[@Adrostos]

@@damasek219 oh yea, fans love it. lmao

[@damasek219]

@@Adrostos yes, they do, why don't you ask someone other than just anti-progressive conservative fans from your own bubble?

[@heya4328]

Im eating 2kg carrots and 1kg steak a day let me beat Laratt on recovery day

[@LukaBowToSlavGod77]

Jerry's words really put a new perspective in this video, amazing analysis, nothing but facts.🎃

[@imranzakir3427]

Lol

[@Wanker527]

🤣

[@yepitsme7237]

The name. Haha

[@WineHouse33]

I don’t love the move visually. However, It really does explain why the Europeans do not respect the Americans. They dislike the technique, so they do not value the champion. It relies on trickery and angle leverage rather than strength.

[@smeagolmazurenko5238]

So be trickier and get better angles.

[@culliganator]

Exactly. Its not a lifting sport, its a combat sport... "wrestling".

[@hemmydall]

Go watch Denis do a King's Move against Chaffee and Pushkar, then come back and reply again. It's his biggest defensive tool, and its saved him in many matches.

[@Littlebitte]

​@@hemmydall Denis's shoulder never goes below pad level except winning position. That's difference between todd and denis's kings move.

[@stephanie0108]

@@Littlebitte hate the game not the player and if its in the rules and its nit getting enforced then hate the organization not the player. Stop whinning

[@official.griffiths]

is that Jerry Cadorette or Patrick Star?

[@asdfghjkldfghjhgcgyuigfyui9792]

lol

[@arthurgalaxy701]

To solve the issue they need to use a table that’s level including the padding. That’s when you can see if the arm-wrestler is just resting on his tricep.

[@armwrestlingfan6804]

Man, screw this virus. I need to see more Armwrestling and where this story will end up!

[@chatta6013]

They all could arm wrestle now. Problem is they aren't trying to grow the sport really. Not by 1 match a year any way. They all want money n that's it. They could have 1 match a month and events but they all think they r 2 good for that

[@OfficialGOD]

Get out

[@sergeysmelnik]

Too bad the fake virus will never end. In fact there are more fake strains coming to force stronger lock downs later this year. If these arm wrestlers want to have any big matches they cant rely on wal or pal.

[@Habeev07]

Yes. And yes.

[@wesleyb1458]

@@sergeysmelnik yep exactly m8 🤦‍♂️

[@vasylvoina6663]

The full list of people who understand armwrestling: 1. Devon Larratt

[@SovietUnionn]

XD Basically Devon is going full Todd mode because he has no power otherwise to pull normal. Instead of training harder and maybe try lifting heavy for once he could still hook people but no. Time has passed on him.

[@beaviccoon470]

@@SovietUnionn has no power, did you bump your head on something really hard today or something 😂😂🏥

[@SovietUnionn]

@@beaviccoon470 Doing 5cm moves dont impress anyone but fanbois. He is easily outmuscled for years now by many guys. Evropeans lift hard and heavy and pull other pros but Larratt dont.

[@TNM001]

@@beaviccoon470 DL makes no secret out of it that he hopes the KM will give him more years on the top. that is why he has become such an advocate for it. all i know is that viewers will quickly decide to watch or not to watch 2 guys hanging off the side of a table. let's see who is right.

[@beaviccoon470]

@@SovietUnionn ye but you could say the same about many body builders but when they arm wrestle arm wrestlers then in most cases the arm wrestlers will win. Plus those sort of training techniques did pretty well for him back in the day I mean he held the record for the highest hook hold weight thingy for about 10years or something like that.

[@DDaannyy16]

Hanging off the table with a bone lock should not be classed as arm wrestling..

[@nzigga06]

If you can beat their pronation then you neutralise the move. Pronation is driven by muscle/tendon not bone..

[@vinukarthick2065]

Even without kings move, you can hang off

[@hanuom]

Either you die a hero or you live long enough to become a villain

[@TroyHuffmanJr]

I love Devon but Engin def struck a cord with Devon. Hate to say it buy i agree with Engin

[@Recordscience]

I wonder if they could implement some kind of magnetic sensor that tells you when your elbow is off the pad, so it doesn't have to be a judgement call, since that seems to be the most common foul with Kings

[@pigfarmer1313]

it's just move that weaker arm wrestler try to work his way around it

[@NytronX]

Devon, as you know there's different levels to the King's move though, see Eigin's video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWTPh6GKo9-Ypq8 You really think the rules should just allow an opponent to camp *indefinitely* with a completely straightened arm with both shoulders completely under the plane of the top of the table? What about a rule where it'd be a foul if either shoulder remains under the plane of the top of the table after X seconds? This will still allow pullers to perform a King's move momentarily, as well as allow pullers who actually attempting to pin their opponent the ability to drive through and past the table for a pin, but disallow people camping underneath the table with a fully extended arm indefinitely (aka desperation move).

[@TheCondescendingRedditor]

I'm gonna have to agree with Engin here bud

[@dkhoupt7205]

Engin literally went “below the table” in his match in turkey

[@jedsteelwell2354]

Me to.

[@TheForeheadOfDoom666]

@@dkhoupt7205 shhh don't talk about that man don't ruin the narrative

[@gymrat1524]

This shit is just as ridiculous as the "Zer0 Range Bench Press" (look it up). I know its within the rules. But lets be honest here, if the rules allow for your sport to become ridiculous its time for a change of these rules.

[@EEDad401]

The King's move is disgusting. Nobody got away with that move when we were kids. That was considered cheating. The King's move needs to be made illegal. I feel like pro arm wrestling is starting to devolve like the NBA in terms of how a 3 point shooter flops on the floor with minimal contact and then gets to shoot free throws. That's not sport. That's cheating. It's the same with the King's move. I'm a HUGE fan of yours Devon. You're my favorite. So please don't think I'm hating on you Brother.

[@chuggingtonn8923]

Devon you are the champ but you do not need this kings move. Engin describes the situation really well in his video. Michael needs it but not you Devon. Sad to see arm wrestling going this way.

[@landbeforetimeee]

"Engin does not understand" Them's fighting words 🍿🍿🍿

[@kA-gk8ub]

It's all good to disagree , we're grown men here

[@Xplora213]

“Looking skinny” is fighting words 😂

[@jedsteelwell2354]

Yeah Engin is only one of the best ever.

[@AussieArmWrestler]

Devon goes BANG 💥💥

[@SwitchUpYt]

If they made the move illegal do you think it would improve the sport though?

[@lankey6969]

Yes.

[@jakubnowak2132]

Ofc

[@THEleatherface24]

Nope. I believe some evolution is fine.

[@iecoie]

@@THEleatherface24 Do You consider foul to be an "evolution" of fair play?

[@a.h.5966]

I would say do not make the move illegal, but put some limit to how much the move can be exploited so it doesn't become an exploit instead of a technique

[@leezo2123]

King's move does nothing but piss off the arm wrestling community and cause division arguments and anger.

[@aljoker7808]

Todds beard is almost reaching under the table ;)

[@ecp4500]

Can't believe it took me 5 whole minutes to spot Jerry in the bottom right corner.

[@RayFliesAway]

If King's move is not controlled, one day when a arm wrestlers uses at the same time, the arm wrestling match will be turn into tug of war game.🤣

[@gangbangdangangbangdan]

Shoulder and harm under the table it is not ok

[@JGBerserkR22]

Everytime I click a vid I hope to see those eyes, "teash mi how todu desperashun moov"

[@TakenGTs]

" He was wounded a long time ago by a practitioner of this move." Damn thats deep lmaooo

[@jasoneddy9111]

Does anybody have the link to the full video of this talk? I went to Neil's channel but cannot find it. SOS...

[@mrbuck2646]

If this sports is only arm to arm, strength vs strength, the match should be only one round not 6 round because some win by stamina, some win by techniques, some win by power, some win by genetic etc.

[@vinukarthick2065]

Finally, I found a genuine practical guy. People don't understand what you said.

[@vasylvoina6663]

How armwrestling is evolving in Devon's head. Hook - top roll - open top roll - king's move - queen's move - no move

[@Hallowed_Ground]

You're blinded by dislike of Devon.

[@SovietUnionn]

" no move" XD

[@quebecironarmcouture7824]

Anď how does it goes in your head?

[@Spooder1989]

As long as the shoulders stays above the pad, in my opinion. For safety and for fairness.

[@kazimirmalevich6712]

Devon, great speech! But I beg you, please give the others a chance to say something about Kings move ;)

[@GarcDi3]

These group vids are sick! So many legends!! 🦾

[@HBSSTC]

Literally was just watching Engin's vid with levan and vitaly lol

[@W210Garage]

I saw your video about 2 weeks ago, it was first time for me when i saw how you performed and after that i've watched almost every your match available on youtube. Wish you all the best! Greetings from Rep. of Georgia!

[@johnbraucher1499]

They're trying to use excuses to not have to use their brain and tactics.

[@matthewdaly7423]

Terzi is a purest.

[@imranzakir3427]

Under the table kingsmove sucks.

[@brdfleetwood]

I’m not an arm wrestler but for some reason I love listening to you and watching you when your in your environment. Very entertaining!!! Also you the ultimate sportsman....

[@ambiguousgh0243]

so many comments from casual fans who only watch yt armwrestling and don't even pull edit: clearly, i struck a nerve with the exact demographic I was talking about. to clarify: my point is that non-armwrestlers have no business deciding what moves should be allowed in the sport if they don't even participate in it.

[@lmnts556]

Yep, king's move will always be a part of armwrestling.

[@baki_sigma]

@@lmnts556 yep btw is being under the table still king's move ?

[@bustinyanutz4195]

@@baki_sigma nope it's a BJ position

[@Kavriel]

So fans of Soccer/Football have to play to earn the right to comment ? That's shit gatekeeping logic, the armwrestling world does not need.

[@literalghost929]

And? It's perfectly logical, given that the majority who watched this vid aren't armwrestlers themselves. Doesn't make their comments or arguments invalid. Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, >>>or some other attribute

[@elu5ive]

you clearly watched the video where engin made fun of it, but not the one where he explains his critique in detail for 6min 25s. you don't understand anatomy. if the shoulder is below the pad, the elbow CANNOT be on the pad anymore, because it's lifted by the upper limb. that's a 100% FOUL. he's absolutely right that you have to differentiate between a clean technique and hanging off the opponent with your whole body weight. how is it armwrestling if you don't use your arm with only the strap holding you? doesn't look like a sport worth getting into

[@AndyL940]

Kings move should be banned ... It’s the wrong thing to do regardless of the rules .. I just think it looks terrible

[@darkfist9889]

Yes it only LOOKS ugly forget about appearances and think about what you can do to win extended arm looks ugly ppl say its bad for the sport but the only ppl i see complaining are armwrestlers because extended arm usually means lose but if you can stop before your hand gets pinned with pronation and drag and your shoulder is above table there should be no reason to ban it regular audience love to see michael todd's matches cause its lasts long and its entertaining

[@devoncyplenkov7746]

I disagree with that statement

[@bigbore4498]

Cancel culture has reached armwrestling.

[@lmnts556]

No. Its fine and it will never be banned. The move is within the rules.

[@literalghost929]

IMHO it would be fine if the refs called fouls. But since they don't, things just degenerate to the point of absurdity... (See Devon vs M.Todd's last match...)

[@michaeltrumph121]

He is not confusing anything, he is right. Only weak people use it. Stop embarrasing yourself Larratt.

[@SonGokuuuuuuu]

Respond to Todd 👀

[@ItalanFindart]

THE REAL PROBLEM is only ONE!!! Michael "undrthetable" Todd and Devon are UNABLE to defeat arm wrestlers like Levan, Vitaly, Genadi... even Denis at his 50%. For this reason, they magnify the "King" under the table move.

[@gokhankartal7101]

Why because Engin is a MAN and he behaves like man. He dosent want to win like Woman. He prefer to win like Man and he prefers to lose like man. This is the difference between you, micharl and him.

[@allensloot7552]

Say all you want about king`s move, but as a fan I don`t want to watch it. I turn off any match where it happens.

[@viniciusmartins2426]

Stop this bs devon, you have a brilliant history and you know you and todd would never beat chaffee without it. It's ugly and you guys only defend it because you and todd are the main stars of wal, which would not be alive without you two competing there, that's why wal will let you guys do this under table stuff. Bad stain into your career. And this point just puts Brzenk even more high in general standards.

[@BenXP8]

Facts.

[@mungvalte7239]

Here we go again❤️

[@blainejb7]

Engin did actually understand the King's move. You and Todd always avoid mentioning that the shoulder should stay above the table, as Engin did. Unfortunately, as you have gotten old, you now embrace a sad desperation move.

[@brokeandbored85]

Who's ever hand touches pad first loses no matter what move he does

[@Hrallballert]

Looks like you'll need to grip up with Engin if you guys meet in Turkey, and show him a thing or two :)

[@OfficialGOD]

@Weghweh Hwewehwhe he's weak in all techniques

[@adonygrapes]

Or three

[@someoneprice2371]

excactly

[@burgoff5678]

@Weghweh Hwewehwhe are u kidding me ?

[@sergeysmelnik]

Isnt engin far lighter and weaker? its not even fair

[@larry89]

They need to make a league that doesn't allow the king's move

[@001Sparkie]

Devon you know in your current shape you can't beat Michael. Ruining your legacy for a payday makes me sad. Love you dude but hate to see this.

[@Pinchwhistle]

nah i gotta agree with Engin, that the shoulders need to stay above the table, it just makes sense

[@newGuldynka]

Engin won't change his mind.. So you can stop walking against this wall..