Destined Death & The Gloam-Eyed Queen

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[@kylecherpy2842]

This also explains why you get sent to the crumbling city after the erdtree is set aflame. Melina likely used her last shards of power to send you to where Destined Death is locked away, so that you may release it.

[@schmockonaut4843]

But when you inherit the frenzied flame and burn the erdtree you go to farum azula too, so why would melina teleport one to farum azula when she already parted with you?

[@schmockonaut4843]

@@francisharkins thats a good point, especially since she states that she will only go after you when you become the lord of frenzied flame, which she later does

[@ellabso2205]

Could be something to do with the punishment of a cardinal sin

[@bigmoneymethods]

@@cwill14 wow that’s dope

[@completelysaneperson2238]

@@cwill14 ZAMN

[@Crumplednoseskin]

So, theory: The reason the player, Melina's chosen champion can become so powerful is because they are HER champion, thus empowered by death itself. There must be a reason why out of so many other tarnished, only the player succeeds at anything. The other ones couldn't even beat Godrick - and he was a f*ckin' chump.

[@hapmaplapflapgap]

would also explain why so many bosses have voicelines that make it seem like they arent actually dead yet. maybe a lot have been defeated before and have just returned, because they werent defeated by death.

[@ouroboros1809]

Yeah looking back knowing godrick was the weakest of all the demigods yet none have gone past him, really tells somethings up with melina and our character

[@bragcertified]

@@ouroboros1809 not really, since we know about other badass warriors, they were doing their job at different times. Godfrey and Malenia's teacher, for example, were fighting gods, just like player did.

[@rauminen4167]

@@bragcertified Yes yes, back in the age where Destined Death wasn't yet bound by Maliketh and Godfrey was still fighting for Marika - when that was done and Destined Death was sealed away, the Golden Order was created (Not sure of Malenia's timeline think she was born into the GO - her teacher on the other hand could have been fighting alongside Godfrey) Since then though, in The Age of The Erdtree, proper death is only achieved by returning to the roots of the Erdtree. So... all the Tarnished (Godfrey's exiled army), they keep returning to fight, but none can defeat even Godrick? Something's fishy. The player seems to have more power than the others from the start. Unless of course it's just because it's a game and the player is the player.

[@bragcertified]

@@rauminen4167 yeah, player is player, thus he's killing everybody. You're stronger then others because you're wielding power of runes, so you're becoming stronger with time. That's also why 1st boss beats you up. But to be fair elden ring is kinda weird when it comes to other elden lord candidates, because there's Vyke who was as close as possible to the title of elden lord, and yet someone like Godrick was alive, and Morgott who was protecting Erd tree too.

[@devinguy]

Melina's line "as sure as night follows day" fits in with the Dusk-Eyed Queen theory as well. Rune of death abilities are also holy damage, and Melina uses holy powers when summoned.

[@sillylittlemonkey7130]

Also follows the duality motif that is everywhere in Elden Ring

[@OmegaFire11]

And her blade of calling uses the same animation and technique as the black knife assassin’s knife blade of death skill. It seems like they borrowed not only her power but also her technique, and hers no longer has destined death because it was taken by Maliketh

[@RandomLord1992]

She never uses black fire in any form though

[@burlapjack1464]

@@RandomLord1992 yeah cause she would be a nerfed gloam eyed queen

[@RandomLord1992]

@@burlapjack1464 that wouldn't make sense. Nerfed doesn't mean she wouldn't have any power at all. Why would she be the only Black Flame user to not have Black Flames?

[@lancebarnard8436]

It also helps to know how Elden Ring names its Characters. There is an inordiante amount of characters whose names start with R, M, or G. The letter that a characters name begins with is a direct result of their parents names. All the children born to Radagon and Rennala are given an R name. All the children born of Marika and Godfrey are given a G name or an M name. All of the children born of Marika and Radagon are given an M name (only M because radagon is Marika). The empyrean's born of Marika are all given names that begin with M and end with A. Miquella, Malenia, and, in accordance with the titles afforded by the Elden naming system, Melina.

[@robertcajucom3203]

George R. R. Martin

[@lancebarnard8436]

@@robertcajucom3203 Hahahaha, that's great.

[@sagivalia5041]

On any other game I would have brushed this theory as a coincidence but knowing that not only the minds of Dark Souls worked on the game's story but also the mind of George R. R. Martin makes it a very valid point of thought in the puzzle that is Elden Ring's story

[@tacticalpacklimbo129]

@@robertcajucom3203 that actually makes sense where the names of them come from Godfrey (George) Renalla (r) Radagon (r) Marika (Martin)

[@SinHurr]

Minor Caveat: All the demigods are named with their mother's letter, with the sole exception of Godwyn (and the rest of his lineage I assume) taking the G from Godfrey rather than an M from Marika. He's also one of the few demigods who--other than being killed and all--wasn't totes fucked up somehow. Godfrey and Marika: Godwyn, Morgott, Mohg Radagon and Rennala: Radahn, Rykard, Ranni Radagon and Marika: Malenia, Miquella (probably Melina though she may be more of an Athena-type 'sprung from my head' thing rather than a proper birth).

[@miguelrubio4166]

I think the blackflame monks betrayed their duty to watch over the giant's flame, not that they betrayed the gloam-eyed queen. A spitit summon, Amon, was a fire monk that turned traitor and swore fealty to the black flame. And it would be weird to be seduced by the black flame and then betray the queen of it. But other than that, this is a cool theory.

[@HuskySansVergogne]

That's right, it's specified in the description of their armor, weapons, etc... + On Amon description

[@teh0wnz0r76]

yea i think melina is burned n bodiless due to malikeths specific flame that drains hp n also lowers max life. im pretty sure all her followers loved her. im def startin to veer more towards melina = gloam eyed queen rather than shes her daughter.

[@impartialthrone2097]

@@teh0wnz0r76 Is Maliketh's "flame that drains hp and also lowers max life" not the power of Destined Death itself? The same power is in the Black Blades, which were empowered with stolen power from the Rune of Death aka Destined Death

[@teh0wnz0r76]

@@impartialthrone2097 u tell me

[@Shadowdragon_TV]

@@impartialthrone2097 I think that flame is actually Destined Death itself since it's the same flame the Black Knife uses that also drains HP with its special attack. And those Black Knives were imbued with the Rune of Death taken by Ranni.

[@steezygrossman5000]

“As sure as Night follows Day. Such is my duty” She is talking about Dusk. Just another cool little hint

[@RelinquishedSoul]

This was a very good theory and another possible bit of evidence is that in Maliketh's boss room there is a statue of a woman surrounded by three wolves, and Ranni provides us with a spirit summon of three wolves when providing us with the summoning bell that belonged to 'Torrents former master'.

[@AlejandroFaustoC]

Good observation buddy!

[@arsenal7897]

And, in front of Ranni's tower there is actually 3 wild wolves... o.o

[@alexh2528]

I’ve watched a few theories about the Gloam-eyed queen but this is the first one that really made me feel closer to understanding her importance within the actual game itself. I think you’re spot on about her being Melina, she’s certainly in control of Melina at the very least. Great video

[@GehrmansWheelchair]

Maybe Melina is her daughter?

[@yourmother9747]

@@GehrmansWheelchair melina says her mom is in the erd tree, and there’s only one lady in the erd tree

[@GehrmansWheelchair]

@@yourmother9747 Let me preface this by saying I am of the impression that her mother is in fact Marika, I’m just spitballing here. However, the statement she made was that her purpose was given to her by her mother, inside the Erd tree. That sentence could also mean the purpose that her mother gave her lies within the Erd tree, as opposed to her mother in the Erd tree that gave her a purpose.

[@jaycielle]

@@GehrmansWheelchair I like this interpretation a lot - can anyone confirm if that grammar point of "my mother, inside the Erdtree" is the same in Japanese, or any other language?

[@MeekMallard]

@@yourmother9747 she said her mother had given her a purpose in the erd tree long ago, perhaps back when the gloam eyed queen was in control? That would make sense how she’s empyrean, and perhaps the gloam eyed queen put a little of herself in her daughter or gave her her eye before her demise? To continue her will

[@pizzaman11]

Theres a few details that you missed that I think are important: Firstly an additional nod to Melina being the gloam eyed queen is a nod in the dialogue when she says "...as night follows day...". What is night that follows day? Gloam. Next, Ranni and Melina are the only 2 people that seem to be familiar with Torrent, more evidence some sort of connection between the two. Lastly, Melina doesnt seem to be able to "walk the lands between", she only is seen at sites of grace (or close to one at least when you first see her) which are tied to the Erdtree. So she must have her spirit entwined with the Erdtree somehow.

[@agtjake]

I’ve talked about all this in a separate video. Didn’t feel the need to add it all into another one.

[@impartialthrone2097]

Now what would be the connection between Ranni and Melina? Well, if Melina is in fact the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and does know where Maliketh was put after Destined Death, and Ranni somehow knew where Destined Death was, since she stole a fragment of it... Melina told Ranni so that she could enact her plot and indirectly continue Melina's purpose?

[@ig100magnaguard]

That's some interesting analysis because, in a metaphorical way, you're the day and she's the night. I mean, your head literally looks like the sun.

[@parafoxl7619]

Few things here: 1) A lot of things connect her to the black knife assassins, like her moveset in combat when summoned for example. Why would she be part of their order, doesn't make much sense 2) The face next to Ranni is not proven to be her. The most logical explanation, is that that face is Rannis soul controlling the puppet-body

[@trinhanvu6568]

1)If this theory is true the black knife assassins techniques and moveset would have copied from Melina, as she likely created these techniques during her time as the dusked-eyed queen wielding destined death. 2) Ranni is her half sister, so having similar faces is logical

[@gamo_art6957]

Or you know she might have wanted to steal back the rune of death. So she join forces with Ronnie and might have even helped her transfer to the doll.

[@gamo_art6957]

You know Ronnie stole the rune fragment from beast boy not the dusk eyed queen

[@dificulttocure]

Yeah, your second point has been theorized by many. But it is somewhat strange to think that Ranni's closed eye, and how it connects with Melina's is just a weird coincidence.

[@RandomLord1992]

The connection between Ranni and Melina has always felt forced. All the evidence I've seen and heard we're either assumptions based on their faces looking similar, their closed eyes are the opposite, and they both know Torrent. There's nothing in game connecting them other than a shared parent. 1 shared parent and it's the father

[@gdiridium5525]

Interesting that the scar/tattoo on her right eye seems to be faded out in the Frenzied Flame ending too, suggesting that it was a "seal" on her power

[@Karnave]

Its a long shot, but I'd love to see a DLC that expands out after the flame of frenzy ending

[@zekiel2533]

Same

[@flurmple5587]

I see a lot of people talking about wanting something like that. I don’t think it’ll happen because from usually doesn’t lock their dlcs behind optional endings but it would be interesting to see more of what the world could be like after that ending.

[@boymancreaturething1971]

EH idk

[@bluepants7338]

I don't think it's a long shot tbh . I got every single ending and the frenzied ending seems even more fleshed out then the regular endings or any of the alt endings .

[@nickv9003]

Fuck that I want to fight miquella

[@Liam-pi9vi]

I'm not sure if her followers betrayed her. I interpret their presence in Farum Azula to be similar to the Darkwraiths who fight their way to the Abyss Watchers in DS3; they're there to challenge Maliketh. With the item descriptions describing the intimacy between the queen and her followers, as well as maliketh taking their powers away, I would be hesitant to believe that they just decided to side with him. Thats just a hunch though, and I could be wrong.

[@EvonyNinj]

Yeah but it does say the monks were seduced by the black flame and were traitors

[@Liam-pi9vi]

@@EvonyNinj The "followers" Im describing in my comment are the Godskin Apostles/Nobles. They are present at Farum Azula, where Maliketh is stationed. The Blackflame monks are not traitors to the gloam eyed queen. Rather, they are traitors to the Flame of Ruin, aka the Giants flame. They original served that flame, then they came to worship the Black Flame of the Gloam-Eyed Queen. I was basically saying that the Godskin Apostles/Nobles didn't betray their queen after she was defeated by Maliketh, and the reason why you see them so close to Maliketh in Farum Azula is because they're there to challenge him, not because they're allies.

[@IntuitionJo]

@@EvonyNinj I'm reasonably certain they're traitors to the Fire Monks in that instance. After all they wear the white versions of the red gear of the Fire Monks.

[@EvonyNinj]

@@IntuitionJo ohhh I see. I have only defeated the solo 1. I'll have to read up on them but I'm sure your correct.my bad

[@EvonyNinj]

@@IntuitionJo good discussion tho =D

[@kaniphish]

I think its interesting that they call her the Dusk-eyed Queen before she's defeated by Maliketh and the Gloam-eyed Queen after she's defeated. Dusk is the time before the sunset and Gloam is the time immediately after the sunset.

[@CaptainProx]

Melina, Godwyn, and Miquella are all characters I PRAY get all the focus in the Elden Ring DLCs! They’re all so mysterious and interesting, I also hope there will be a sequel that will cover these characters as well

[@CadenceWren]

Here's hoping we get some lore on St. Trina too 😩

[@remasterzoofrombo152]

@@CadenceWren st. Trina is an alias for Miquella

[@CadenceWren]

@@remasterzoofrombo152 Yeah! I would just like to know a bit more about her. I thought their whole thing was interesting.

[@apophisstr6719]

One very important point told by Enia: "For the flame to burn the Erdtree, a sacrifice is needed. *Of one who envisions the flame.* Melina had that ability while us players had to inherit (envision) the Frenzied Flame to become the sacrifice. This could only means Melina already envisioned at least one type of flames in the lore, and the Destined Death is in a form of (Black) flame.

[@ShadowNetWeaver1]

One thing to note too is that in cut content, when Enia is describing the Edtree burning, she originally says that the Erdtree is engulfed in BLACK FLAMES. Implying that the Giant's Flame was originally intended to be the black flame itself.

[@Hecatoncules]

This was put together way better than any other lore ab the gloam eyed queen

[@AlchemistDot]

Really fantastic stuff, I love how you put a heavy emphasis on gathering info through concrete sources such as item descriptions and direct dialogue. I find a lot of theories nowadays are typically personal headcannons with any contradictions thrown away

[@music-by1ou]

I think Melina is the Gloam-Eyed queen. I think she was Marika's preferred daughter and that Marika shared with Melina, Ranni and Miquella her plan to evade the Greater Will's influence: Melina agreed to all of it, even if it meant getting killed by Maliketh and losing destined death and her memory. She wouldn't lose her substance though, she would still be the same. Maybe she went into the land of shadows to retrieve Torrent, who is likely Miquella's steed; so did Ranni. Maybe even Mogh abducting Miquella was planned: he, being the strongest of the Empyreans and having the allure of a God, was the less likely to obey Marika, hence her making Mogh abducting him and sealing him into the realm of shadow, and Mogh recieving power in exchange. Then Marika sent Messmer to the land of shadows to avoid people from knowing where Miquella had gone. Ranni's part was to unleash the Shattering. We, of course, will have to wait for the dlc to come out, but everything is tied to it: Ranni is a spirit, having forsworn her physical body; Melina is as well; and Miquella is trapped in the land of shadows, and is prevented from escaping by Messmer. Also, the black knives assasins can become invisible, as shadows: and in one of the dlc's posters there are metaphysical veils over the land of shadows, which would hide it. But why is all this so complicated? Well, Marika doesn't want anyone to know the full picture, nor to be able to stop everything, right?

[@lexnotlaw]

once she was burned, her body "died". As GEQ she worshipped destined death and in the lands of Shadow people "meet death in messmers flame". Could it be that Melina's lost body, IS Messmer?

[@music-by1ou]

@@lexnotlaw it could.

[@DrAmbroseDexter]

I think you're exactly right. I think Melina is the GEQ, and what you said at the end is important: if Melinda does not die burning the Erdtree, which only happens if we've accepted the flame of frenzy before burning the tree, then when we kill Maliketh and release the rune of death, the GEQ is restored to her former self. It's interesting to note that if we let Melina burn the tree, and THEN go meet the three fingers the GEQ does not show up in the frenzied flame ending. Kind of deals the deal on Melina being GEQ

[@Barad-Dur_IsACapitalOfMordor]

In the frenzied flame ending your character faints and dies, after that someone (shabriri?) posesses your body. So Melina vows to bring you destined death not to punish you, but to free your flesh from the demon wearing it like a suit.

[@kingvicious8332]

Shabiri is killed in the FF ending

[@Barad-Dur_IsACapitalOfMordor]

@@kingvicious8332 did you miss an entire lore about Shabriri? He’s immortal demon of lies. Him just dropping meatsuit doesn’t mean he’s gone.

[@megustaelmate5499]

Shabriri found a new body to live, Yura. He only wants to help us to burn the Erdtree, that's why he helps us against Godfrey. When we faint is because the Frenzied Flame is adapting to our body, to make us the Lord of Frenzied Flame, we have control of the body but we act listening to the frenzied flame

[@randyjax09]

Wow I wasn’t convinced before watching this, but I think you’ve won me over. The beast eye was something I hadn’t even considered.

[@canudeiro]

I've never played Elden Ring, but the way you tell all these stories makes the lore really entertaining. Subscribed !

[@qwertyuiop42385]

Rani + Melina = Hel Hel is the half-dead goddess of the underworld in Norse mythology, and the child of a red-haired fire god named Loki (probably Radagon).

[@Saicofake]

Also didnt Loki technically fucked himself? Hnmmmmmm

[@justhaku9240]

What's the thought process behind rani + Melina = hel I don't get it, other then that I like the idea

[@qwertyuiop42385]

One is a soul in a dead puppet (her body is also dead) and has an affinity for cold sorceries, the other is alive and has an affinity for warm incantations. The opposite closed eyes (and other things) make it look like they sort of fit together, and the Gloam Eyed queen is a pretty good approximation to an underworld goddess. Also, Loki's three children were a big snake (Rykard) a half-dead girl (Ranni/melina) and a big wolf that devoured everything (Radhan is described as devouring all his warriors like a dog). I'm not saying it's exact, but this game is based on Norse mythology, so it's probably the best lens to look at it through.

[@justhaku9240]

@@qwertyuiop42385 how do you get Rani + Melina = Hel?

[@qwertyuiop42385]

@@justhaku9240 are you asking for like a math proof? I thought I explained it decently well...

[@connerjessop8422]

I think her spill a out destined death at the end of the frenzied flame ending is pretty good evidence. Plus the glowing eye. It's just weird that more isn't said anywhere else in the world about another demi-god child of queen Marika. Melina might as well not exist.

[@impartialthrone2097]

Seems like the kind of thing that would be kept hush-hush by Marika. the Gloam-Eyed Queen would be like, ancient history at this point. The game doesn't do a good job of conveying how much time has passed, but it's been at least a century since the Shattering, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated long before that, as Maliketh was established as being feared by all the Demigods, and who knows how long the age of the Demigods lasted. So considering how early in the timeline she was defeated, plenty of time for everyone to forget she ever existed, especially if her siblings were complicit in the cover-up

[@silentnsalty]

"KZbin told me that 98%" Aaaaaand we're done here

[@jamesmatthew1903]

5:49 she only says this extra dialog if you accept the frenzied flame before she sacrifices herself.

[@andrewvisser5409]

You just blew my mind man, amazing!

[@joshuaarnett762]

The Black Flame Monk reference to betrayal is the Monks betraying their guardianship of the giant's flame of ruin, not the Gloam Eyed Queen

[@saltlakeatrocity9771]

Me watching The Ashen Hollow's GEQ video, "Oh, obviously Marika is the GEQ." Me watching this video just a few minutes afterwards, "Oh, obviously Melina is the GEQ."

[@cRazySam2121]

Sir this is the best insight video of Gloam - Eyed queen I've seen so far! Thanks for the info!

[@idolatrystudios]

That was pretty good! hmmm??? You've given me a lot of food for thought. Thank you for putting this out, you're awesome bro. keep up the good work!

[@marcetustheplysterian9625]

It seems to me that the Gloam-eyed Queen and Miquella might've had similar motives: Both wishing to devise methods of suppressing and defending against the parasitic influence of Outer Gods.

[@Karak-_-]

It might me an outdated conent, but in Malenia's and Godskins theme there is a mention that Mikuel is St. Trisha who is the Gloam Eyed Queen.

[@topcat59]

I personally can’t see the godapostles betraying the queen. Because we never really see examples of them being power hungry but we do see them gather strength to fight against those of the order and any other’s that stands in their way but it does make sense that the fire monks would likely become obsessive over this power. Since godapostles where used to using the power of flame since they were created for that purpose so it makes sense that they would use the fire monks for their own gain.🐱

[@DCkogsch]

I have watched so many videos and read so many posts about this topic and most of it lines up. But you're the first I see to bring the foot of the erdtree (Melina's place of birth) together with Godwyn's body). What a find, this is awesome!

[@Toogor]

I think youtubers and theorists are getting too caught up with Empyreans needing to be descended from gods/Marika. I believe demi-gods such as Ranni and Malenia were chosen because of the god blood they carry but that doesn't mean the fingers can't choose someone else for another reason. Marika herself is said to have come from the Numen, and it is never said she was born to god parents.

[@johnrobert6794]

marika became a god because she fused with radagon not cause she had god parents marika and radagon ascended to godhood by fusing together

[@n_cruz144]

@@johnrobert6794 marika was already queen before fusing with Radagon as per melinas dialogue quoting marika at one of the churches

[@aurora_chart]

but to be an empyrean one has to be born from a single god and be chosen by the fingers

[@Splorguss]

@@aurora_chart they don't have to be born from a single god, Ranni is the daughter of Rennala and Radagon, and she was chosen as a canidate.

[@n_cruz144]

@@aurora_chart yeah what Hamza said...I don't recall at any point in the game where it says empyreans are born of one single God... only that they're chosen by the two fingers. For some reason people started overriding the explicit dialogue in game with the word's actual ol latin definition or something

[@zach.hanford]

I've always thought that either Ranni or Melina was somehow the Gloam-Eyed Queen, but this is the first video that actually makes me go "Yeah, it's definitely Melina." Most of the games lore made sense to me, but I couldn't piece together the relationship between Ranni, Melina, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen.

[@DeadEnd4991]

I still think the two are 2 halves of a single individual.

[@SaintSchadenfreude]

This makes the Chaos Lord ending seem like it's much more canon than the other endings but I am curious what future DLC will uncover lore wise

[@Yirayol]

Well destined death and age of stars endings seem more complete as they finish the main plot twist of Empyreans rising against The Greater Will and thus I believe either is canon, but frenzied flame ending definitely gives more options for DLCs

[@richardcheese4680]

Melina after me getting the flame of frenzy: You are no longer fit. Me: *fails to do one push up *sad tarnished noises

[@alastor1052]

Level strength and endurance, your equip load is too high and you have no stam + no strength. Maybe you will even get some maidens this way.

[@blackthornejoshua2929]

Any willing lore hunter deserves my subscription. You convey the information we seek and lack the capacity and or will to attain on our own, and we are forever grateful. Your rising tide raises all our ships. Praise the message

[@manicmulisha7296]

I thought I would mention Vargram the raging wolf, as it seems he was loyal to the dusk eyed queen, when you invade him he is wielding the godslayer greatsword, and his armors description is According to the old legends, wolves are the shadows of the Empyrean. Vargram aspired to such a state himself. This would indicate to myself he is the shadow of the dusk eyed Queen, I would love to see more coverage on vargram as very little is known about him.

[@impartialthrone2097]

Vargram was a tarnished, which means he was alive when Marika cast out Godfrey. So he was likely born after Destined Death was already sealed away. Seeing as how it says he "aspired" to such a state, aka he wished to emulate it, get closer to that role, I'd say it's more likely that he knew of the Gloam-Eyed Queen and was essentially larping like he was her Shadow

[@lyramir]

Another point that can add to this making sense is that all children born of Marika and Radagon are cursed. Malenia with her rot Miquella with his ageing and it would make sense if Melina's were "death". The power of "Death" would fit in line with the curse idea of these children as it is unnatural for the lands between as is Scarlet Rot and Miquella's age thing.

[@heptagramm]

What I think: -Haha finally boss, rivers of blood go brrrrr

[@alfrzd3140]

I am fking addicted to all the lore videos after rushing to finish the game, imma take my time on my 2nd play-through thats for sure.

[@aranthur]

This is definitely a sound theory Personally, I think Melina was a secret child for most of her life, hidden away in a little chamber off the elevator to the Forbidden Lands. Perhaps (like Hela in Thor Ragnarok) she was even the first child of Marika, in the days before the great and heroic battles of Godfrey and Radagon, who helped the goddess and her loyal Black Knife Assassins first establish the groundwork for the Golden Order through more surreptitious means. But eventually, as the Golden Order became a great power that could win its battles through overpowering might, Melina and the darker facets of Marika were hidden away, and the entire purpose of her existence became housing the Rune of Death, so that Marika and her order could live forever But all things are destined to die. And being the living embodiment of Destined Death, that rule being broken so egregiously must eat away at you. Look at what it's done to poor Maliketh, after all So Melina created the persona of the Gloam-eyed queen to try to bring death back to the demigods, only to eventually be defeated by Maliketh (possibly using the Flame of Ruin to destroy her body, and in a strange twist of fate, make her the perfect kindling for that flame to eventually burn the Erdtree?)

[@desthstride587]

A lot of people are in agreement with Melina being the Gloam-Eyed Queen, but this interpretation is probably the most sound in the specifics, especially with her connection to Ranni and Godwyn, and the Beast Eye possibly being her eye.

[@halfbakedpotatoe6351]

Her : I'll deliver you what is yours, destined death. Me, who just killed gods and everything in the lands between : bitch, take a look at my rivers of blood....

[@PR1ME98]

I have an entire blackflame build so its very interesting to hear the lore behind this stuff lol

[@NotPLaying9]

5:53 melina is such a badass

[@dannyyoung9789]

Just so you know, the "T" in apostles is not pronounced.

[@mukamuka0]

Mfinger : You only have 2 options, a Doll wifu or Yandere wifu. What will you choose? FTarnished : ....

[@oconsertador9021]

Plot twist: Marika's soul is going as Melina, assuming that, of course, "one body two souls"

[@EdwardViaTomato]

I think Melina is the result of an attempt to rebirth Ranni, but the cursemark meant that Ranni's original Spirit still existed, and that a physical body couldn't take form. And since Ranni is an Empyrean, her copy became a suitable vassal for the Outer God of Death. At least I think that serves as a decent explanation as to why Melina and Ranni are fundamentally the same, while still each having unique agencies that drive them forward. Originally I'd felt like Ranni was cunning enough for Melina to be regarded as her, under alias, working the same plan from a different angle (in case you aren't privy to the Age of Stars). However I don't think they'd emphasize Melina's conviction to the Cardinal Sin being of her own choosing to such an extent, and/or her purpose as granted by her mother. It's absolutely still plausible, I'm just not so sure they'd do something so elaborate. Renna explicitly exists, but Renna is very similar to Ranni in her demeanor. But Melina is so similar to Pyra in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, that maybe FromSoft is diving into Freudian influences. 🤷🏽‍♂.

[@brendanmuller7301]

It's more likely they're some sort of twins with melina either being the gloam eyed queen or her daughter adopted by marika. The outer god ranni chose(that of the moon) and the outer god of death are different but incredibly similar in nature, near twin gods if you will, and empyreans physical appearances are affected by their gods, so it would make sense if twin god's or at least incredibly similar gods' empyreans would look identical

[@gunnarjohnfooth]

I think Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen’s daughter. Their tattoo, hair color, and mannerisms are different. I believe the GEQ was improved in the Erdtree due to her defeat by Maliketh, and she is released by us burning it. I also believe the GEQ was Ranni’s mentor. Her two different-colored eyes could be representative of her power over both fire and ice, and so could the double helix pattern of the GEQ’s sword, the Godslayer Greatsword.

[@johanndiedrick4354]

Loved this!

[@apothecia]

'as sure as night follows day' like... DUSK?! never noticed that little line 🤯

[@chonghe5598]

Interesting assumption that Gloam Eyed Queen may be Marika's child. I always thought they were competitors of a same generation for the title of God, before Marika win and start the "golden age".

[@robertkessler2574]

There were definitely other gods, in some item descriptions it mentions marika slaying the God of the fire giants

[@michaelwilliams8242]

@@robertkessler2574 that's true, but those typically relate to other outer gods, while the gloam-eyed queen is aligned with the greater will.

[@impartialthrone2097]

@@michaelwilliams8242 She's an Empyrean. People are made Empyreans by the Two Fingers. Which Outer God was she an Empyrean to? Marika is to the Greater Will, Malenia to the Rot God, albeit against her will, Mohg is attempting to connect Miquella to the Formless Mother, and there happens to be an Outer God whose envoy, the Twinbird, gave birth to the *Deathbirds*. Hmmm an Outer God with an association with Death, and an Empyrean who wields the power of Destined Death?

[@michaelwilliams8242]

@@impartialthrone2097 two fingers=greater will, not just any outer God

[@impartialthrone2097]

@@michaelwilliams8242 then how was an Outer God of Rot able to influence Malenia, an Empyrean?

[@munchbox7446]

2:50 Empyreans are actually just chosen by the Greater Will for godhood ascension. It could very well be that Marika and the Gloam Eyed Queen were chosen during a previous cycle, or that even that the Gloam Eyed Queen was the bearer of the Elden Ring before Marika, and Marika experienced a similar journey to us in order to wrest that power from the GEQ.

[@arkaye597]

I don't think we know if Empyreans are people chosen by the Greater Will, or if the Greater Will only picks Empyreans

[@SingingInferno]

@@arkaye597 The Greater Will turned Marika into an empyrean because she was originally a numen.

[@ScarletEdge]

@@SingingInferno 2 fingers only chose Numen because they were outsiders to lands between, therefore impartial to people living there. Marika was not born to god parents, she just won the lottery.

[@SingingInferno]

@@ScarletEdge I know, I was just clarifying that Marika was made an empyrean, not born as one.

[@ScarletEdge]

@@SingingInferno Sure thing. I don't have problem with that.

[@thisisnotacryforhelp5800]

This also fits somewhat nicely with Gurranq having the beast eye (assuming that it is her eye). He likely would have been her equivalent of Maliketh or Blaidd. There's also a connection to be made with the deathroot he eats and the rune of death used against Godwyn, as the roots grow from his corpse.

[@Nick-bh5uk]

I thought Gurranq is just Maliketh but disguised

[@keithpennock]

The Glom-Eyed Queen could have ruled before Merika. There are more Empyreans than just Merika and her children. In fact we know there were prior Elden Lords before her and that the Dragon Lord served an Empryean god before his god/Prior Elden Lord was defeated.

[@critesic6942]

To add onto this, and now, this is just thought process, I have always been suspicious of melina, in the starter area, during the questline is the only time I've noticed this, but there is a maiden behind where you first initially come into the world at, however she is dead, mr. Youhavenomaidens, sends you there to collect her blood, why, I have no idea, weird fetish or whatever, however it is strange, where you are deemed to come into the world at, there is a killed maiden, and you are all of a sudden maidenless which seems very strange as everybody seems to look down on you for it, then out of nowhere melina, who has been observing you apparently comes out and helps you, guides you along the way and if you go through with the frenzied flame ending, is mad, even though she says her duty as a maiden is to guide you to become elden lord, I know the frenzied flame lord and elden lord is different however to support your claim as to the fact that she seems to be trying to sort of defeat her mother, trying to guide you to take her place because she was mad about the fact that her mother sent somebody to usurp her true power, I feel melina is the true villain, that she truly wants for the world to die however at her disposal, at her hand, she wants to do a sort of ethnic cleansing of the world, sounds familiar cough cough WWII, but enough of that. She also knows ranni really well, who had that one black blade weapon formed to become powerful enough to kill a god with it, what god would you want to kill so badly that you commit a grave sin, well of course, the one god that really matters, and you notice how rannis questline ending, melina isn't mad, well that's because shes friends with ranni and together they have the same goal, to see their mother never have a chance to stand against them. None of this is backed up however it's just the thought process of my 600 hours playing and having suspicion of melina from the start, analyzing her constantly.

[@skataneric]

I always thought it was Varre who killed your maiden. He basically gives you a sales pitch because he KNOWS you're maiden-less (you don't even tell him, it's his opening lines) when you first run out, to follow the grace and kill Godrick, whom he hates. He knows you'll get the roundtable invite. Then later, if you do his quest, he trash talks the round table and two fingers, and leads you to soaking a rag in a maidens blood (which he says peeps usually kill their own maiden) for initiation to join Mohg's crew. The easy way to do it is to go back to your dead maiden through the portal at the four belfries. There's also the church of inhibition, however, the natural flow of the game doesn't lead you there till way later as you have to go up the side near the lift to get up there. He's basically against the fingers and trying to backhandedly recruit.

[@impartialthrone2097]

You can also get the Maiden blood from the dead Maiden at the Church of Inhibition next to the Frenzied Flame Village. Also, Marika wants to end the Golden Order as much as Ranni. That's why she, *ahem*, shatters the Elden Ring. It's Radagon that tried to repair it. Also, Melina concludes that her purpose is to burn the Erdtree, which only helps Marika's plan along, as burning the Erdtree would be just another part of thwarting the Greater Will, which she no longer believes in. Also, that WW2 analogy felt forced to be honest.

[@joshuahendricks9558]

A do not think Maliketh takes death from Melina, there are many item descriptions of Marika Giving/Gifting Destined Death to her brother, Maliketh who is to Marika what Blaidd is to Ranni.

[@ETBtrippin]

that was a great video my dude. new sub❤

[@synysternotlim4168]

Loving them so far and some line with my expeculation did the frenzy endind but after she burnes damn it wanted to see her eye

[@melvinISmischievous]

Aye, you mentioned Godwin is surviving through the erdtree roots. What if the second giant face in the underground with the litch dragon is her orignal body and she has been "dead" for a long time but the shattering and the rune of death not being in place meant that her punishment is to live without a body but ranni merge herself together with her so she could also use puppets. Since her and ranni don't have true bodies they can't rebirth hence they just exist perpetually and have the deepest lore. That means Godwins soul is out and about somewhere maybe?

[@darkhobo]

The dragon is Fia. Fia is Fortisaxx. Fortissax became human to found the dragon cult. Shes been keeping Godwyn alive for a long long time via the deathbed companions. Ranni needs to kill Godwyn because he was destined to die first. She cant die until his soul passes on. Plus he should have died a long time ago, and Ranni used to be a part of the rune of death. Its personal and professional.

[@aanesijr]

@@darkhobo That was Lansseax, Fortisax’s sister, that became human to found the dragon cult. You fight Lansseax in Altus Plateau.

[@darkhobo]

@@aanesijr yes. They were best friends. But one of them became human and Lansenaxx is still a dragon. So it must have been Fortisaxx that became Fia the deathbed companion. Also Vyke is probably Elden Rings version of Ornstein.

[@impartialthrone2097]

@@darkhobo Woah woah woah, Lansseax is explicitly stated to be the one that takes human form, running the Dragon Cult. Fortissax is corrupted within Godwyn, fighting the death inside him. These things are explicitly stated in item descriptions. What isn't is stated explicitly anywhere is Fortissax being female and turning into Fia. Please try not to state your personal interpretation as fact when there's no explicit evidence of it.

[@darkhobo]

@@impartialthrone2097 its ambiguous in classic Fromsoft fashion. I think they founded it together. From Lansseax's glaive - "Lansseax was the sister of Fortissax. It is said she took the form of a human to commune with the knights as a priestess of the ancient dragon cult" It doesn't state which sister but Lightning Spear incantation states "long ago, Godwyn the Golden defeated the ancient dragon Fortissax - an event that gave rise to the ancient dragon cult in the capital" We know Lansseax was in love with a Tarnished Lord Contender from Vykes Dragonbolt. "Of all the knights, Vyke the Dragonspear was the one Lansseax loved the most" Not super important, but showing inter-species relations and Lansseax being "accounted for" so to speak. (Also Vyke is the "Ornstein" of Elden Ring and I love him) Now onto Fia. First off, she is undead. She tells us this. And Fortissax is inside of her. Here is Fortissax's remembrance. - "After Godwyn the Golden became the Prince of Death, the ancient dragon fought long and hard agaisnt the Death within its companion. Alas, victory was never achieved and its only reward was corruption" So Fortissax fought the death inside Godwyn. Here is Fia's description of what the Deathbed Companions do. - "I was known as a Deathbed Companion, where I come from. Afer I recieved the warmth and lifely vigour from a number of champions, I lay with the remains of an exalted noble, to grant him another chance at life. To do so is the purpose of me being." So Fia drains life from dieing people and gives it to an "exalted noble" The only conclusion to draw is Fia is Fortissax and the Exalted noble is Godwyn. There was also a description that said those who founded the dragon cult were exiled, and I was going to X-reference that to Fia's gear all saying she was exiled. But I cant find it anymore. I think I have more than enough evidence that Fia is Fortissax in human form without it. So I'm doing only a tiny tiny amount of speculation. Plus its Fromsoft, and GRRM. You have to speculate a little to get anywhere. They even gave us a Tinfoil hat in game. eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Nox+Mirrorhelm

[@mr.mtfvsgaming3767]

I think its actually somewhat implied that any demi-god can be an empyrean, they just need to be chosen to be one by the greater will/fingers. Both Ranni stating that her fingers chose her to be an empyrean and Marika herself being one despite being part of the numen people imply this. So the dusk eyed queen could just be a unrelated person chosen to be an empyrean (tho its still very likely to be Melina)

[@jonnymario771]

I dont think so, there is a description saying that Empyreans are born of 1 only god. Then they throwed Ranni as a mystery for us to solve xD Numen literally mean God in some old language. Greek i think.

[@MrJhwan]

1:30 As a true knight, I must assert dominance and honor with my heroic T posing.

[@Sollisen]

"Assisted by her own fingers" had me smirk a little😅

[@agtjake]

😳

[@Sollisen]

So sorry, could not help myself😆

[@gorg6151]

Please stop calling Gloam a colour, it’s a time

[@Zown2007]

I think Melina and Ranni are the same person just like how Marika and Radagon are the same. The fracture came from when Ranni died. Her mind split into both of them and we are seeing what Ranni looked like when she was alive through how Melina appears. The ending after the tree is destroyed is actually both of the fused together. You can actually see Melina's face as the ghostly projection out of Ranni's face. The split most likely occurred because of the desire to restore the golden order and take it over. This is why when you choose the frenzy flame her golden eye is gone. The golden order is dead and so her eye turns white. This allows for their differing opinions to no longer exist. A choice was made and they return to the same person to now carry out a new goal. Destined Death as she always did before but without the golden order this time.

[@67awesomekid]

"as sure as night folllows day " = dusk

[@Tomie..]

BROOOOOOO OMG MAN Im taken aback, wtf it makes so much sense 😭😭😭

[@chetchadbourne1743]

Melina's spelling and sound is extremely similar to the world melanin, refering to the darkening pigment in skin and eyes. In Scottish the word gloam even means "to darken". Ranni's name in Hindi can be translated as "queen" or "female ruler" Renna can be translated as "reborn" in the same language. It's also uncanny that Ranni/Renna is colored blue and has four arms EXACTLY like the Hindu goddess of death Kali, whose name also happens to mean "She Who is Black/Death" Gloam-eyed Queen --> Melina/Ranni/Renna confirmed

[@calix7217]

i think thats kinda a stretch but still a really cool theory

[@carlosdario9810]

Talk about stretches

[@sullychow4123]

While the links to Hindu mythology are really interesting. I think the gloam eyed queen is probably just one of the characters alone. Most likely Melina. Though she does seem to align with Ranni's goals a lot, and dusk is close to night (their respective symbolism).

[@AnimaPrisma_]

Given that being an empyrian does not specificy which god, my guess is that the gloam eyed queen is the goddess of the moon and ranni is her daughter. Radagon + Rennala become her adoptive parents after she was born Perhaps this is why Ranni attempted to lose her greater will influence tied to her mortal body, because she is actually daughter of the moon (gloamed eyed queen) goddess and wants her goddess to be in charge instead (?) And would also make more sense as to why she murdered godwyn and knew about how the death mechanic works. Her mom used to guard the rune of death. Perhaps?

[@darkhobo]

I think youre close. So death should be a Great Rune right? Why isnt it a circle? Well because death isnt a thing without life. You remove death from life. So the gloam eyed queen is a godess of life, death, and rebirth. Marika breaks off Death, leaving Life and Rebirth. Rebirth is put in the egg and given to Rennala as you say. Melina is the Gloam eyed Queen. I imagine back then they called her the Dawn Eyed. And if I put on my Nox Mirror Helmet I could speculate the Rune of Life is literally the Golden Torc whistle you have been using all game to summon torrent and carry around Melina. And the Darkmoon Rune is the Darkmoon ring you place on Ranni's dolls finger that subsequently revives her.

[@znLi7]

to deliver you what is yours destined death.. send me the chills everytime

[@christian171]

gloam is the period of time immediately after sunset. The gloam eyed queen will return sure as night follows day

[@NorthstriderGaming]

So the title of being an Empyrian has two requirements: the first one is that you're a Numen. That's an ancient race outside of the Lands Between compatible to receive the powers of an Outer God. The second requirement is that you have to become a candidate chosen by an Outer God to rule under their banner. Once you fulfill these requirements, you're obtaining the title of Empyrian. So Ranni, Miquella and Malenia were Numen, just like Marika. The Gloam-Eyed Queen apparently was one as well so she too came from beyond the fog. So the question here is if Destined Death isn't some Outer God as well, basically being the Greater Will's only nemesis. So sealing Destined Death was basically imprisoning the influence of an Outer God, similar to the Frenzied Flame. There is also the question if Melina isn't a Numen as well since apparently Marika is her mother as well so perhaps she's another secret child. After the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending, by sparing Melina you get to see the secret cutscene where Melina swears to deliver us Destined Death while having one eye glowing purple. So she probably sided with Destined Death and basically became the next Gloam-Eyed Queen. So perhaps one DLC might be Godskin related where Melina is your new arch nemesis if you take in the Frenzied Flame. If Melina really is a secret child of Marika, she's clearly a Numen as her first letter implies that she's another selfcest child being born from Marika banging herself as Radagon. So in that case, she's cursed as well so she probably has some shady shit going on as well.

[@joshuavasiliou]

To become an empyrean, you have to be born of a god/goddess (So Marika or Radagon), and then chosen by the greater will to be a replacement to Marika as wielder if the elden ring, fit to take a consort, their elden lord. That's what a lot, if not every main piece of info from item descriptions and the main wiki for the game, gas said we're the requirements, so it's cool to see this take and spin on it.

[@TheToma305]

I got you bro. Great video and many more to come I see. Thank you.

[@yvngashyy3580]

Some evidence that I haven’t really seen too often is after you inherit the frenzy flame when Melina says to you “I will kill you, as sure as night follows day” is extremely accurate to the actual definition of gloam, the definition being “the time of day immediately following sunset” I know it’s pretty minor but I thought it’d be worth mentioning

[@kingfatty_sea5885]

“However,let’s get a little deeper w/ this” Me: oooh baby

[@kayladenker6417]

What is that weapon your character is holding in those panning shots at the beginning and end of the video? I can't find it in any weapons list for the game, and I just looked at every weapon on the wiki.

[@rootonesquare2686]

Hm, maybe Ranni got the idea to burn and discard her empyrean body after seeing what happened to Melina. Melina says herself that she was burnt and made bodiless. Maybe that is what destined death does to gods; strips them of their empyrean-ness and makes them ordinary powerless inhabitants of the lands between. (I still do not get what these lands are actually between)

[@greenknight5432]

Turns out Miquella is both St. Trina and the gloam eyed queen according to the godskin lyrics

[@Mstr4Pltrgst]

Definitely convinced me Melina’s the global eyed queen

[@owenshodges1441]

I think the Gloam eye queen is a character we have never seen yet.

[@aboose-]

Alright this is one of the best ER lore videos I've seen.

[@leonardolozano7358]

What is that hooked sword he’s got at the end of the video ? That thing looks cool af

[@TobyKBTY]

The Frenzied Flame ending is the one I havent unlocked yet, so seeing this cutscene is actually mega hype, and it actually makes a lot of sense. All we can do is wait and see if the DLC sheds a little more light on this and other characters

[@rvolcano7338]

It's been a year since this video came out but I'd still like to add my take on the matter. Melina is the daughter of Marika and Radagon, but she was born after the twins Miquella and Malania. The twins were born when Marika and Radagon were acting within the design of the Greater Will, but Melina was born after Marika decided to turn against the Greater Will. Another point I'd like to touch on is that the twins both had afflictions, rot and eternal youth. Melina has an affliction of her own, being without a proper body that she can travel with and must use a "host" to most about. She is first seen with Torrent, a powerful spirt horse (and one that I believe has connections to the Ancestor Spirit given his nature and magical abilities). Then she travels with us, needing our help to reach the Erdtree. Once she gets close to the Erdtree, and her mother, Melina can act under her own power once more but we only see her in our fight with Morgott where she aids us, possibly meaning that while she can move around she needs someone with her to take physical form.

[@Tomp4ul]

Great vid! Though, small note, the 't' in 'Apostle' is silent, which makes it said more 'Apossle'

[@fluffmeister120]

Lol literally just hit sub after the guilt trip and heard the thank you that caught me by surprise lol

[@bythenoobsforthenoobs8319]

I had the Melina theory too because her closed eye is probably her gloamed eye.

[@tinnasell4161]

I believe Marika ordered her brother to take Melina's Rune because she refused to seal it away herself. Melina was very dedicated to her duties (she kept following her purpose after death and when alive, she was part of the Black Knives, judging from her move set), while Marika wished to orchestrate the shattering, and for that, she needed to make it seem like she's acting in the favour of Greater Will. Destined Death could kill both the soul and the body, leaving nothing for the Tree to feed on. I doubt that the Greater Will was happy about it, but the Rune was still created; probably, to kill those who come from the Frenzied Flame. On the other hand, with that Rune, Melina could also kill Marika if the Greater Will demands so. Hence, it was better to seal it away and make it seem like your intention was to make everyone fight for eternity. There are also Stakes of Marika, which prevent us from dying when we fight strong enemies. Marika needed those to create a strong tarnished who could become the next Lord and change the Order. With Destined Death around, that could not be possible because the Stakes would not function. Hence, it is safe to assume that Marika demanded Melina to seal Death away and Melina refused, as it contradicted her initial purpose to bring death. There is also a possibility that the fight for the Rune was staged. Of course, Maliketh did not know about that, but the Gloam-eyed Queen died on purpose. There are several things that led me to this conclusion. First, we can find her "children" - Godskins - in Volcano Manor, where those, who rebel against the Tree, chose to stay. This means that Melina could be one of the rebels. Second, she knows Marika's plan word-by-word, meaning that she was standing near her when she spoke, even during her secret conversation with Radagon. Third, she said: "I was born at the foot of the Erdtree. Where mother gave me my purpose. Though now, everything is lost to me. I...have to ascertain for myself. The reason for which I live, burned and bodiless." She burned because of her purpose, but we do not know what that purpose is. The only thing we know is that it was given to her by Marika. We do not even know when that happened. It appears that no one remembers her as Marika's daughter, as if she was born in secret. Or re-born even. Marika and Melina had the same status. They were Queens. Melina was a Black Knive assassin, so she's likely a Numen. My guess is that she's Marika's sister. I would not trust a random person to wield Death. She did not like the Order and Marika shared her opinion at some point. Two Queens made up a plan, according to which the Order will fall. Melina fought Maliketh but lost on purpose to trick the Greater Will into thinking that Marika solved the rebellion problem. This could win Marika some trust. Then Marika restored her using Radagon's Rune, which eventually made her connected to Ranni, and gave her a new purpose. Melina helped Ranni kill Godwyn properly, and this was what Marika asked her to do. This whole theory is pure speculation, but I like the idea. It's fun

[@swamashijudbedolofritt4448]

Duuuuude. How the Fxxx did I miss this!!!? Thank you sooo much. You just gave me a new reason to play again. Insta hit sub.

[@IsaacZwei55]

Melina is the fragment that Ranni stoled.

[@ctr1502]

Burned and bodiless is very much like the corpse at the top of the Liurnia Tower, which we also suspect is ranni. So it seems like there would be a link between Melina and Ranni, with Melina having some sort of physical existence and Ranni existing only in spirit/ possession form.

[@stinkfist6422]

Strong theories you've got there Dawg

[@101dnl]

Another thing worth mentioning: You can summon Melina for the Morgott fight and there is cut content of a boss fight against Melina datamined by Zullie. The interesting thing about this is that Melina has the same moveset as the black knife assassins. Which in turn are again linked to the rune of death and rani.

[@AquaSG.]

that bossfight was not cut content. it was simply zullie setting melina as the boss of that dungeon and fighting it. Melina has the black knife assasin moveset if you summon them for the morgott fight as well, by the way. So it is observable in-game.

[@ENRU08]

Hey @AGtjake what is that armor youre wearing with the black cape?

[@michaelkennedy2888]

It would be so cool to have a gloom-eyed queen boss fight as the lord of chaos