Destiny Reacts To His Heated Convo w/ Jordan Peterson

Destiny reacts to his heated convo w/ Jordan Peterson...
Streaming, Politics, & Philosophy | @destiny | EP 433
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#destiny
#politics
#debate

[@destiny]

Antivaxer Tries To Ambush Destiny But Gets REVERSE Ambushed By A Doctor ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/pprCgGSQp5iLpqM

[@ilmatzo]

Destiny is on a tour of being dominated by the scholars on any subject, the saddest part is that he not only doesn't recognize it but takes it even further... then we have to watch a video of him crying and reformulating how he should have answered or dealt with a certain topic, it reminds me of the Seinfeld episode "The comeback"

[@thecombatdonkey6087]

This guy will scream for free abortions because it’s a woman’s body. But when it comes to big daddy government pumping you with its juice; then you have no bodily autonomy. Do as big daddy government says.

[@sagelikea6130]

What an unbelievably childish and ignorant statement.

[@hrknesslovesu]

AUGUST! You're linking to this video!

[@kgm2182]

*Dude, never do that again. Stick to your fellow KZbinr airheads.*

[@Joeshcast]

Mr. Borelli is a 35 year old man’s name.

[@rossmanmagnus]

MISTERR... Maurelius...

[@mdaddy775]

He was called 35 different names by Norm!

[@AbhayPeshin]

you mean Mr Banelli!😁! Actually all i have learnt for this comment section that he Mr Banal identifies as a Black Women!

[@pussydemolisher-ng1dh]

Wow dude real edgy😕 you have the whole squad laughing😒

[@la-pantarana]

Presenting to the emergency room unconscious

[@nastybandit322]

The idea communism has nothing to do with redistribution is insane. Destiny decided JBP meant taxes... even though he talked about the killing of the farmers and REDISTRIBUTING the land and ownership of food production.

[@bokramubokramu8834]

100%. He knows he's wrong of course, he just can't admit it

[@kainoizking]

He didn’t say that communism has nothing to do with redistribution, he said he doesn’t see redistribution as one of the main issues with communism. And when people are talking about redistribution in regards to government, they’re almost always referring to taxation. JP brought up the Kulaks as an example but broadly speaking the issue of redistribution largely refers to taxation and I don’t think it’s unfair for Destiny to be referring to taxation when broadly speaking about distribution, in this context anyway.

[@nastybandit322]

@@kainoizking the commies take all ur stuff and have to use max force to do it. This is bad because of extreme redistribution even if tax is redistribution and isn't bad.

[@uhok6712]

You know how many kings and queens throughout history have done the same thing to a rich section of their population? It has literally nothing to do with communism hahaha.

[@uhok6712]

Back in the day they wouldn’t even redistribute the stuff the king would just say “thanks this is for me now”.

[@NickCager]

This entire discussion between you and Peterson reminded me of a wise old father trying to talk sense into his naive child.

[@hedilow3247]

Absolute meat riding 😭

[@avengerofthedead142]

Dude that's uncalled for. Don't call Destiny old just because he's a dad. He's still got some good years left in him.

[@mowleed2000]

@@hedilow3247Even if you don’t like Peterson it’s just true

[@Macheako]

@@hedilow3247 Destiny is on record saying he specifically bans people who don’t meat ride him 😂😂😂😂😂❤ Is that why you’re here?

[@hedilow3247]

@@Macheako Bro give it a rest i see you everywhere whining about destiny lol. Talk about rent free

[@jabloneynophony1875]

You can't get steamrolled in a debate, then study up and make "comebacks" weeks later on livestream, in an attempt to make it look like you won.

[@condor234]

THIS

[@termitreter6545]

Heh, so your feelings told you that JP has 'won' the debate?

[@condor234]

@@termitreter6545 it’s kind of hard to take someone seriously when they use “Heh” in a petulant manner

[@swaqlordaudsclay5021]

@@termitreter6545 You sound upset

[@Djcjx91]

@@termitreter6545 there’s no way you watched this whole video came out with Destiny winning the debate 😂😂

[@zephyrvezir5444]

This entire thing has major "lost the argument but thought of a comeback later in the shower" - vibes

[@xsguitar77]

Perfectly stated. He's simply not in Petersons intellectual class. But very few are. It was Peterson at his very best.

[@zephyrvezir5444]

@@xsguitar77 Agreed. Destiny isn't dumb by any means (although very misguided imho) but while he reads wikipedia articles and playing a game / listening to some streamer drama video on 1,5x speed at the same time, JP reads intellectually dense books and contemplates the content for hours afterwards. It's just different lanes, and at this point I wouldn't even debate JP's points, rather try to supplement his points with details he might have missed, but that isn't very attractive to Steven's audience I guess - since they are accustomed to A vs B conversations and debate tactics

[@acidreflux19]

Only if you watched the original and were delusional enough to think JP didn't sound like a lunatic.

[@zephyrvezir5444]

@@acidreflux19 If I was pro-pharma, pro-commumism and anti-religion he surely would, yet he somehow doesn't

[@acidreflux19]

​@@zephyrvezir5444his arguments only make sense if you buy his whole worldview. "Vaccines are bad because this group of people operate like this and spiritually these group of people are like that..." Destiny tried to bring it back to real world facts. If those don't matter to you because you like JP's storytelling then I don't know what to tell you.

[@adrian-dragosbalaban6401]

Peterson's jacket was making some good points but then Tiny's sweatpants said "no, it's like this". 10/10 lobsters

[@BeefstickFather]

Godzilla no!

[@michaelturley3457]

Am I crazy or are they talking past each other with redistribution? 1. It feels like Destiny is straw manning him a bit implying redistribution was the only problem or even the primary issue that caused the collapse of the Soviet Union. 2. I feel like Destiny is assuming Peterson believed the redistribution was done via high taxes akin to the US idea of it. And I don’t think he’s talking about it in that sense. He’s talking about more of a redistribution from private ownership to public. Idk Peterson may talk out of his ass on a lot, but I think he is genuinely well read about the SU and communism. 🤷🏻‍♂️ what am I missing? It feels like a Destiny bias towards Peterson that I see from most on the left.

[@adrian-dragosbalaban6401]

@@michaelturley3457 I also feel they've been talking a lot past each other during the debate but to Destiny's credit he is admitting he's only been getting a feel for how to engage with these recent debaters he's been on with. Honestly it's a shame we're only know starting to have debates like these in the online sphere, really enjoyed it and I think both sides made good on airing their political side's general grievances as short as the format was. Looking forward to see more of the stuff, I could have listened for 6 hours of it unlike the Dinklestein debate for which I'm still mustering the patience to listen to lol

[@dalnim4294]

@@michaelturley3457 He's definitely straw manning him there. I also really dislike him implying he knows more about ADHD than Peterson does. He comes across as very arrogant when he says things like that.

[@kgm2182]

*Destiny met his fate. LOL. He should NEVER do this again. He needs to stick with debating his fellow KZbinr airheads. There are leagues and then there are leagues and Destiny was way out of his.*

[@schizophrenic_AI]

Lil bro is literally huffing and puffing at chat for 2 hours.

[@anaran_]

he was so erratic during this stream i couldnt watch it... i think he's stressed af

[@jamesvick6070]

He should be destiny needs to lose all his money and all his followers 😅 destiny is a disgusting human being 😤 ​@@anaran_

[@unspoken7704]

​@anaran_ he has feel bads from the JP discussion. He was not prepared.

[@totesmagotes3688]

I thought it was weird he was commentating on his own interview. Maybe that’s a common thing. I generally don’t follow KZbinrs.

[@anaran_]

@totesmagotes3688 feels normal to me. He didn't seem to focus at all on what jp was trying to say though, just "oh my God what an idiot" honestly he slandered jp so much here I'd be surprised if he gets another debate with him

[@mrjimmbo]

JP has a degree in political science and a graduate degree in psychology. It’s not like he’s unstudied in the area. He’s practically obsessed by the Soviet union, not sure why anyone would call his political understanding lacking.

[@feelthebern3783]

JP absolutely has a terrible understanding of Marxism. He wouldn't last 10 minutes talking to an actual Marxist. Hell, I'm not even sure JP would be able to accurately tell you what Socialism is, much less have an informed opinion about it. All he would do - as all anti-Communists do, obsessively - is point at the USSR and say "BAD!", repeatedly and without much context or meaning.

[@maverick5335]

​@@feelthebern3783He has a historically good grasp of it. Modern day socialism due to people like Wolf have changing definitions depending on the talking point. It's why he, despite being an educated and smart guy. Looked like an idiot in his destiny debate.

[@lolsing2205]

@@feelthebern3783 "He wouldn't last 10 minutes talking to an actual Marxist" no one would with the amount of mental gymnastics they employ on their side

[@pookz3067]

@@maverick5335again, please show me any sentence Peterson has uttered about the USSR that shows he has a good grasp of the history outside of Solzhenitsyn. I get that Solzhenitsyn tells you a lot, but I haven’t seen a single sentence in his work that shows having read lore than that one book. This does not an expert make. Though tbf, we see how much less Destiny knows about it which is hilarious.

[@Jreaddy]

Yea, destinys flaws really show when he gets into a room with pp Lego actually know what they talking about. Same goes for guys like chenks nephue.

[@phillipoliverholtz9226]

53:43 bros never farmed. Sure if it was like a mundane task. But what if 90% of your crop fails, do charge 10x for your product ? Farmers go bumper crops to years of loss. No you cant set prices for produce. Its a dance between farmers, providers, and consumers.

[@ornatus9616]

And governments.

[@gabrielobrien6446]

The Kulak genocide was obviously an issue of redistribution. They were despised by the regime because they were more affluent land owners who employed peasants in some resembling more of a "free exchange market". The regime viewed this as a threat and sought to redistribute their wealth and land by evicting, murdering and relocating the Kulaks.

[@Psycholosopher]

Holy crap, all the redistribution is in this equation is the tool used to kill. It’s not inherently the bad thing just like a conservative would say about a gun. The bad thing was Russia and their sentiments towards the Ukrainians. Redistribution is not inherently bad. However the reason why the USSR failed is because of its command economy. If you want to say a type of redistribution is bad then fine, provide good reasoning.

[@bradtaylor77]

It was an issue of redistribution but it wasn't a reason why communism failed and so many people died of starvation.

[@Psycholosopher]

@@bradtaylor77 it also doesn’t demonstrate why redistribution is bad. The people used it as a tool to kill, but that’s all it was. A tool… and we know what conservatives say about guns.

[@EntertheFray1]

@@bradtaylor77 ......The redistribution and destruction of the kulaks triggered the Ukranian famine, which caused around 3 to 5 million people to die of starvation. It absolutely was the reason many people died of starvation. Even if it wasn't, hypothetically speaking, are we just going to gloss over a genocide and a famine in the name of redistribution and pretend that just because the soviet economy didn't collapse in that very moment, this isn't a critique against it? Utter delusion if so.

[@sticks7857]

@@bradtaylor77 Getting rid of all the competent farmers isn't why people died of starvation? We're seeing something similar happen here in the U.S where jobs are being redistributed to the incompetent in the name of equality and how much of a detrimental impact it's having on the quality of our output.

[@watzimagiga]

He was 100% talking about the redistribution of food. They took all the grain from their crops and took it to the cities and left them to starve. If they went out after the harvest and gathered up leftover scraps in the field to eat, they took that too and punished them for not turning them in.

[@RobotReg]

Destiny is either being very dishonest or he just has no idea. I could see either being true

[@thisishappening7273]

Peterson tries to connect progressive taxation to command economies and food redistribution by a central government. They are not the same. Peterson does this because it benefits his oil billionaire benefactors. It’s the same reason he rails against climate change with unhinged and debunked oil industry talking point nonsense. He has conclusions chasing evidence, so he needs convoluted conspiracy explanations rather than just looking at evidence and having it lead to conclusions. Destiny does the latter, so when he’s wrong he eventually corrects. Peterson will always be the same amount of wrong because his conclusions are already fixed.

[@lolsing2205]

@@RobotReg yeah its not even something to have an opinion about its just plain history bruh

[@totesmagotes3688]

@@RobotRegIt’s easy to be dishonest in an argument in an attempt to win. But the dangerous part of this is depending on your opponent to be ignorant of the subject. If caught, you lose all credibility 😂

[@TheDmitriProject]

@@totesmagotes3688The Destiny playbook. Good to know reasonable, intelligent people call this out.

[@bhborges]

First time I dont agree with Destiny at all. JP was as clear as possible and his arguments were solid. Destiny was feeling a lot!

[@rantingmoron84]

Your a Destiny bootlicker no different from Tate fanboys

[@Hyper-Pink]

This has been a great year for debates.

[@Sp00nz4hire]

Name 5 other good ones.

[@heroricspiritfreinen38]

Name 3 other good ones

[@guygrisaru1265]

probably because the world is fucked

[@ollejohansson6572]

@@heroricspiritfreinen38 your mom, your mom, your mom

[@wrestlingsimulacrums4685]

@@guygrisaru1265 Nah, only your mom

[@KallipolisCracks06]

Sorry Destiny but you got dismantled despite your ego not allowing you to realize you were way out of your depth. Oh and trying to argue with a clinician about mental health and such while saying you appeal to 3rd party arguments from a place or authority. Also admits he doesn’t know that much about the Soviet Union but “from my understanding…” dude he’s studied the Soviet Union and communism yet you still arrogantly argue like you’re in some higher place of knowledge on the topic

[@pookz3067]

Do one hour of research for yourself and you’ll have to admit that Peterson often contradicts the majority opinion of his field (again, we should not be appealing to anyone’s authority here, but especially not Peterson’s on those specific issues). Same with his bogus claims about having studied the Soviet Union and communism. Give me one sentence out of everything Peterson has ever said that shows he’s done any more than read Solzhenitsyn. I’ve watched every video uploaded of Peterson through around 2019-2020, and haven’t seen it. Just one fact, figure, idea that shows he’s read anything (again, not in Solzhenitsyn). Or do you think Solzhenitsyn’s scholarship was so great that having read it makes on an expert?

[@thedarkscrotum912]

@@pookz3067press X to doubt

[@shadowgame0630]

They had good conversation and you're out here autistically talking about who "DISMANTLED" who like it's 2016

[@meltsjavi]

It's hilarious you guys say this....then proceed to worship Peterson's word on everything outside of psychology. Reminder, an astrophysicist has no authority on geology. A biologist has no authority on physics. Peterson has about as much authority on climate as I do. The general consensus disagrees with Peterson on the pure FACTS of the case. For example: We can't measure the warming of the ocean? lmfao???????????????????????? Do you guys actually believe this drivel? There are MULTIPLE ways in which we measure the warmness of the ocean, and it is without a doubt warming. Also Peterson's "research" on the soviet union is about as reliable as any other non-historian. Remember when he debated Zizek on marxism and his "research" consisted of reading the communist manifesto(lol) Stop treating Peterson as this all-knowing intellectual incapable of fault. Also what do you do when Peterson's intellectual and professional peers disagree? This line of thinking is so brain dead. Learn to address the arguments at hand. Peterson rambled and pivoted a ton in this conversation, and was factually incorrect many times.

[@mkapcio079]

​@pookz3067 it takes 5 min of research to debunk Destiny. Hell, a simple Google search does that. Just scroll past the paid for studies by activist groups and you find actual peer-reviewed studies that are done in good faith.

[@JurassicGoose]

I think Destiny was a little too eager to debate bro Jordan, and Jordan obviously came out on top, because Jordan in his own words is always very careful in the way he speaks, where Destiny can sometimes get a little sloppy with Redpill people, and lazy conservatives, Petersons use of language and focusing on the dialogue is his bread and butter. All in all, I thought it was a super interesting conversation, I just wish Destiny would chill out a little and understand Jordan is as good faith as they a come and this presents an opportunity for true bridge building and interesting conversation with opposing view points.

[@Weltinventar]

Except... Peterson isn't careful with his words? He regularly uses hyperbole, misuses statistics, talks about areas way outside his expertise, and incorporates his interpretation into statements of fact. I have to assume he is intelligent by his history and the depth of understanding he has regarding certain things, but that leaves me with the impression he has to be disingenuous.

[@JurassicGoose]

@@WeltinventarYou could literally say that for anyone that is a public speaker. It's funny how one of his criticism's is he speaks on things that aren't his "expertise", and Destiny's expertise is? The fact is Peterson is an intellectual and can talk about whatever he wants. All of his statistics that he's ever mentioned can be easily found. The hyperbole is something nearly every Political commentator does, including Destiny, but Peterson only uses hyperbole for things he truly believes and has receipts for why he believes said thing. You can disagree with him, but there is a reason he is known as "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS woke activist"... because he is a swiss army knife in debate, well read, and very careful, articulate and quick with his words, and slow with his thought formulation. He even takes time to rightfully understand and reiterate his opponents views for them and steelman them before analyzing and giving pushback, which is extremely rare. You can deny this, but anyone can see he's not your average internet sleuth... the man is an intellectual power house.

[@darius8652]

@@Weltinventar only for this debate. Destiny isn't careful with his words? Destiny regularly uses hyperbole, misuses statistics, talks about areas way outside his expertise, and incorporates his interpretation into statements of fact. wish destiny would stop deflecting and moving the goalpost.

[@pookz3067]

@@JurassicGooseI agree with everything you say about Peterson except the well read part. He shown pretty superficial knowledge of everything he’s read, maybe even Jung lmao.

[@avengerofthedead142]

@JurassicGoose You couldn't miss the point harder on why people take issue with him speaking outside of his area of expertise. The problem isn't that he's simply forbidden from speaking outside of his expertise, no. The *PROBLEM* is how many people call him an expert even when talking outside of his expertise and look up to him as an intellectual rather than understanding what he's saying and whether or not the facts actually support him (in my opinion, they typically don't and this conversation was evident). I have 0 intention of going back and forth with you on who did better here, I don't care. I just wanted to explain that JP can talk about whatever he wants to talk about, the reason people take issue with it is because he has a following that refers to him as an expertise in matters that are NOT his expertise (again, he isn't doing anything wrong by talking about whatever he wants, his fan base is the one making it problematic).

[@Animationsforever]

Destiny is just wrong on his take about the redistribution part because he is convinced JP must be saying something about taxes. He specifically mentions the kulaks, and even if that wasn't one big reason for the famine, its absurd to say that the elimination of the this whole class of citizen to redistribute their belongings, meaning the deaths or deportation to labor camps of hundred of thousands of people, is "not an issue at all". Not to mention the whole mindset that lead to the idea of 'these people don't deserve their rights because they're of a "higher" class, so we can just take everything they own and degrade them" is one of biggest issues that lead to so many atrocities. It was just an absurd point to fight on. If JP would actually then relate this to something like "and that's why taxation is wrong" then you could fight him on that part because it is an absurd claim to make. Destiny might have worded it wrong as it "not being an issue at all" but it's still not something he should have such conviction on if he then also qualifies it that he is "not completely read up on the soviet union".

[@yonaoisme]

JP constantly equated redistribution to planned economy. those are completely different things.

[@michaelvigil3436]

⁠​⁠@@yonaoismeWhen did he do that? He clearly said a planned economy was a worse problem then redistribution, he was just challenging Destiny’s claim that redistribution wasn’t a problem at all by pointing to a concrete example of mass scale redistribution

[@Gainz__]

@@michaelvigil3436disagree, there is a difference between taxing profits of private companies and redistributing that for society versus a command economy controlling distribution of resources to run those businesses and 100% of profits go to the state. Without private ownership of capital, there is nothing to redistribute

[@leroture7750]

This is a slight misunderstanding of the kulak issue. The Bolsheviks, like Trotsky, Stalin, and Lenin, or the so called leftist faction of the Bolsheviks, didn’t really think that the peasant class was “too wealthy” or “high class” they viewed society through a materialist and historical dialectical mode. The peasant class is meant to produce a surplus that allows the burghers in the cities to grow and develop capital. Russia had not yet reached this capitalist stage of society, so the leftists of the Bolsheviks believed that they could accelerate this process by extracting the surplus of the peasantry. This wasn’t a dislike of their wealth, but rather a Marxist-Leninist interpretation of class warfare between the proletariat and all other classes (including the peasantry). The Bolsheviks then used the propaganda of the “wealthy kulak extracting and hoarding wealth” to gain legitimacy amongst the public. But I just want it understood that this was a deliberate demicide to extract “surplus” or truly bleed a stone dry from the entire separate class of peasants because of the leftist interpretation of dialectical materialism and Leninism not an issue of “wealthy vs poor” at least not among the people in charge. What else you say about redistribution being the issue is spot on. The Collectivist issue was not about creating efficiency in farming, but creating a way for the state to extract “surplus” (aka starve the peasants) and use that grain to purchase foreign capital or feed workers (and state apparatchiks acting as bourgeoisie) in the cities.

[@brendanmassie9586]

Destiny didn’t word it wrong. He’s just ignorant of the historical account that JP was referring to. Because he’s an online debater, he makes surface level arguments with confidence because he rarely faces people with historical competency. JP has multiple lectures on the kulaks and was very intentional by bringing them up, exposing Destiny’s ignorance.

[@xdxdsheep]

Few minutes in, I disagree with Destinys definition of redistribution. The controlling of inputs and outputs is obviously part of redistribution. Saying only taxation can be called redistribution is incredibly weird and uncommon.

[@-Frameshift]

@@danielrandette160 Gulags? He was referring to what happened to the Kulaks

[@xdxdsheep]

​​@@danielrandette160I'm not that familiar with the Soviet so I'm not gonna talk about the gulag. but I'm more familiar with communist china. What do you call something like the people commune or the confiscations of the land by encouraging public execution of the landlords by peasants then redistributing the land and farm works back to the peasants? Edit: ah sheet, I shouldnt use the word redistributing. Let's call it "reassigning living quarters". What I'm arguing is not whether redistribution is good or bad. All I'm saying is that the communists did a whole lot of redistribution of resources that didnt involve a whole lot of taxation. In fact, u can't quite tax ppl in the traditional sense in communism. How r u supposed to tax ppl who own no assets or properties to begin with.

[@EntertheFray1]

@@danielrandette160 KULAKS lmao. This is why I cannot take destiny or his fans seriously. The complete arrogance to speak on a topic you know absolutely nothing about. Look at Destiny go off on a complete condescending rant, talking about taxes and redistribution because he has no clue what JP meant when he referred to Kulaks. LMFAO!!!! By extension his clueless fans get misinformed and defending him. He should learn to stay out of the damn conversation on things he doesn't know about, and listen if he doesn't know what's being referred to. Not smugly argue with condescension. What happened to the Kulaks was a tragedy, and was one of the main reasons which caused a massive famine resulting in several million dead called Holodomor.

[@WizzKidxKOx]

Well, Destiny's core unique politic is being pro capitalist with redistribution to solve for the downsides. Sort of a CATO institute libertarian take that also is reasonably social democrat, and beats all right and left wing debate meta. He gets big mad because if redistribution is wrong then he becomes right wing economically and loses his niche fence sitter privileges.

[@xdxdsheep]

​​​@@EntertheFray1honestly I found his entire argument around redistribution to be really weird. The entire idea of input and output in a communist system is literally the distribution of labor (input) and the redistribution of the fruit of labor(output). To say that redistribution wasnt a problem in the Soviet or in the ccp is basically to say that they did a good job in either of those.

[@th3nobodi3]

you're wrong about the definition of redistribution - it is exactly correct that command economies are an exercise of redistribution of resources, instead of allowing markets to distribute resources. taxes are just a very specific form of redistribution that is typically tolerated in modern Western economies.

[@jessicalebrun6043]

The more i watch Destiny , the more i get the vibe he's obstinate for the sake of being obstinate. Disagrees just to disagree. I dont mind watching him, and I think he's a smart guy.

[@mowleed2000]

I believe Destiny has practically admitted that his higher principle is to maximise his own pleasure so it makes sense as he doesn’t really care about anything but himself by his own admission

[@MrTomyCJ]

@@mowleed2000 It speaks about someone when they consider that the best way for them to be pleasured is by causing unnecessary disagreement. I think a good person would enjoy more from an actually honest debate.

[@shrimppoboy4412]

Funny thing is, Candace was trying to point this out in their talk. I'm not that big a fan of Candace. She kind of just gets on my nerves, but she's right, arguing for the sake of argument, which Destiny clearly does. Not on everything, but he seems to be unable to change his mind when the evidence is in front of him when he doesn't want to lose or seem outsmarted on a subject. I like Destiny and think he is somewhat intelligent, but learn to take the L man. Lol

[@TheHeightAdvantage]

​@@shrimppoboy4412what's an example of something he's obviously wrong on but refuses to acknowledge basic reality?

[@SolarJakee]

Destiny is intellectual entertainment. It's all good fun, but he's not a genuine truth seeker or academic.

[@michaelvigil3436]

Destiny is very smart but he clearly hasn’t looked into dekulakization. Peterson wasn’t talking about taxes at all, he completely missed the boat on that whole part of the argument

[@Dogan_TM]

No. You clearly haven't. See how worthless your comment was when it's reflected back to you?

[@michaelvigil3436]

@@Dogan_TM My argument actually had context in it… can you read?

[@Macheako]

@@Dogan_TM yea bro, what are you doing rn 😂

[@Dogan_TM]

Explain, then. Surely you can do that, yes? ​@@michaelvigil3436

[@c.m.81]

​@@Dogan_TMthis wasnt it

[@theluchakabuto5206]

Mr.Spaghetti is a 35 year old pasta’s name

[@alekdanser]

Mr Bolognesi is a 35 year old Mr Spaghetti's sauce

[@MofoWoW]

Where'd you copy pasta that from? /s

[@jenispizz2556]

PUH-LEASE can you guys get better jokes?

[@aNightmaresRequiem]

Cringe meme, stop.

[@gR22401]

Destiny is becoming more unhinged by the day. The meth is definitely starting to take control.

[@zach8019]

Could be that he got cucked by the Wish version of Ezra Miller. I don't think you come back from that the same.

[@Make-Asylums-Great-Again]

Watch his jaw(cocaine jaw with the side to side grinding) guarantee his molars are properly fk’d.

[@highlanderc]

@@Make-Asylums-Great-AgainHe didn't even shave right. he is not seeing properly.

[@The_Zeta_Male]

how the fuck does anyone watch that debate and think DESTINY was the one who came off "unhinged"

[@Signal_in_the_noise]

I made the same comment. Dude is 100% abusing his adderall he’s starting to look like Slavoj Zizek 😂😂

[@SilkyySilk]

Imagine being a grown man and a father and not being able to ever say "I was wrong"

[@donperegrine922]

Hahaha and then being so exasperated at people.

[@Dutchyman]

The most he concedes is "Hmm, yeah, maybe that's true." - after he literally states something as a fact and gets proven wrong. He can't just say "Oh, my bad. I was wrong on that one."

[@johanneskohn]

ya... disappointed here. cant recognize when he is wrong.

[@Milankov94]

Destiny has a child?

[@Joe-bj8hz]

​@@Milankov94yes grown children can have children

[@DaDa-rg6ts]

It was like this 🤚 ✋ and now it's like this 🤚 ✋ No. It was like this 🤚 ✋ and now it's like this 🤚 ✋

[@nr1skiller]

Exactly. XD The zoom of the data graph is different for each person :p

[@DaDa-rg6ts]

@@nr1skiller True story

[@juanmejiagomez5514]

When I first read this comment I thought it was about the ytp of Jordan Peterson describing rats 😂

[@claire6223]

Yup, We Saw The Video Too

[@DaDa-rg6ts]

@@claire6223 Thank God it wasn't as boring as you are

[@renullius3354]

1 view in 20 seconds? fell off

[@meemoo619]

innit like

[@halo4followerfanboy]

^This guy was first

[@LoudWaffle]

Ever since the "girl's name" comments were shut down, I can't tell if the comment section is rapidly innovating or just sinking into insanity. Either way it's funny.

[@renullius3354]

@@halo4followerfanboy a heavy burden

[@dylansevitt]

​@@meemoo619true

[@Itraininthebogs]

Destiny just wanted to outdebate Jordan and it went horribly wrong.

[@kims4333]

Jordan Peterson yelled monologued his unhinged conspiracy theories 80% of the debate. Anyone who thinks Peterson did well here is a low info 🐑. Ever since Petersons break down and benzo addiction, he’s lost his way to tinfoil hat lunacy

[@KindEvening]

@@kims4333stop spamming this comment😂😂 You have no argument besides baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks

[@kims4333]

@@KindEvening the irony in you doing exactly what you’re whining about me doing. Hilarious how you are using debate bro terms. Okay Tristan 😂

[@KindEvening]

@@kims4333lol your only response is “PrOjEcTiOn” Exactly what I thought: you have no argument.

[@startrekfanman]

In what way? Peterson looked unhinged

[@Se7enth351]

its hard to watch destiny be respectful in the debate then turn into a hateful child when hes alone

[@yajy4501]

When was he being hateful?

[@gmestat]

@@yajy4501 2:22:10 "Flu's are serious deals, especially to people who are immuno compromised my dude, and you should feel like a piece of **** because you are a selfish piece of **** and you should get bullied for it, people should make you feel like a **** person for it too, if you don't want to get vaccinated because your on some ******* hi-(something) ********* **** conspiracy nonsense, people should bully the **** out of you and you should feel bad for it eventually just like all social mechanisms, whether you want to **** kids or whether you want to be a bioweapon and transmit disease to people because your too much of a ******** ****** to take a shot " Raise your hand if you think you should be bullied because you didn't get the covid vaccine! Raise your hand if you think you should be called a re****** and a bioweapon because you believed/believe it might not have been safe to get the covid vaccine because of unknown side effects and decided not to take the vaccine (in other words, as Destiny calls it, you were a ****** and a ******)? 2:25:00 'eat **** literal' Does this remind you of hateful language? Of course this is cherry picking, but what one person thinks and is willing to say about other people is indicative of the type of person he/she is. A person who is true in his convictions and opinions recognizes that he/she does not need to appeal to their emotions (especially negative) in order to defend them(his opinions and convictions), all he needs is to remind himself of what is true: -- enter Jordan Peterson, Destiny has left the room and decided to rationalize his opinions with some random people online? Am I wrong? Let me know, I mean, could be wrong.

[@yobladeyo]

Bruh, brush up on communist history in russia. The repressed the shit out kulaks (also kurkuls) literally sent them to siberia, not high taxes. 1,803,392 people were sent to labor colonies

[@FalkoJ89]

So, if you don't get anti-kulak policies, communism now magically works? That's bonker, bro.

[@kainoizking]

Destiny was referring to redistribution as taxation which it basically is for the most part and JP was referring to a very fringe example of communist redistribution. Destiny isn’t trying to dismiss the example, he’s arguing the premise that you would even call that redistribution and if it’s agreed that you can, then it still only represents a very fringe form of redistribution.

[@holden6104]

@@kainoizking Fringe? Every major communist regime has followed the same pattern of brutality and force in its "redistribution". Show me one that hasn't.

[@kainoizking]

@@holden6104 I say fringe as meaning that it makes up a very small percentage of the redistribution that happens under communist regimes. Taxation makes up the vast majority of redistribution.

[@FalkoJ89]

@@holden6104 The 46-47 famine in Russia was not due to redistribution. It was political in nature, like exporting food to present itself as strong, instead of importing/asking for help.

[@-Frameshift]

Main thing I learnt from this debate is that people don't know what a Kulak is. No, it's not another way of saying Gulag.

[@electron6825]

It is (if you replace the k with a g)

[@podunkcitizen2562]

Isn't it those funny, loose pants that are neither shorts nor long pants?🤔

[@alphagenisis1]

Bruh, stop it. You are trying really hard right now and you’re putting words in his mouth. Can’t Monday morning QB this one fam.

[@squirrelknight9768]

Dude you just lost. What is it with you and taking one possible meaning of a word and then equate everything someone says with that meaning, even if it is clear that something else entirely was said? Then you felate yourself for 2 hours in a stream and claim victory... Jesus

[@Sanxioned1]

It matters because equivocation is a fallacy, dude. If I use the word 'racist' in a sentence and then use it again but change the definition without clarifiying that... it's dishonest. It's like a theist saying, "I define God as this mug." and the atheist says, "well I agree that mug exists", and the theist responds "HAHA YOU BELIEVE GOD EXISTS THEN! I WIN".

[@trippplecup1563]

Because it’s a defense mechanism

[@squirrelknight9768]

@@Sanxioned1 racist has only one meaning though... And it was pretty clear what Peterson meant.

[@jobo2243]

​​@@squirrelknight9768 incorrect you believe racist has one meaning but it doesn't and never has had only one there is a definition the majority currently agrees on but thats it. That's just your brain oversimplifiying the reality because you are simple which is why you don't understand the issue. The more simple you are the easier it is to get lost on the important details. Operating off your logic I could point at any problem with a country and say "well the way the country is is the problem with the country!" You can't just equivacate and simplify everything.

[@HaleySmith]

I think that's the point jordan made towards the end is "you can either just want to win the argument or facilitate to find the truth"

[@Genarii]

"The problem with Communism" thing: Peterson cited (rather passionately) the Kulaks not because he was attempting to argue that redistribution of wealth was the USSR's/Communism's biggest problem. He was responding specifically to Destiny saying, "I don't think [redistribution] was a problem at all." *At all* is an extreme statement. This should have been easy to clarify in the discussion. Instead, it came across as a "win" for JP because Destiny's statement was so extreme as to be indefensible. I know Steven likes to get a rise out of an interlocutor at times or create some disagreement for views, but this is a silly way to do it. Especially in this case, when he has the right of the argument. The computation problem / lack of responsiveness as compared to a market economy is the bigger problem for sure. But acknowledge that redistribution does happen and is often brutal. To say it "wasn't a problem at all" sounds like you don't think what happened to the Kulaks was an issue.

[@REDDAWNproject]

Yeah Destiny kinda lost me here, he's obsessed with redistribution being exclusively taxes, but redistribution is literally just the government forcing personal capital to be used by other players due to government distribution. It is the movement of personal capital by government policy.

[@FalkoJ89]

Sounds more like alienation rather than wealth redistribution.

[@Matthew-ux7pj]

Yeh destiny does this a lot where someone will say something and destiny will take one possible meaning of the word, that is obviously not relevant given the context, and then act as though thats the only possible meaning the word could have had and to act otherwise is just that, acting.

[@REDDAWNproject]

​@@danielrandette160gulags aren't, but dekulakization, what Peterson is talking about, absolutely is. I think people just heard gulags when peterson is talking about Kulaks.

[@Sid00077]

I don't think it was intentional on Tiny's part. Ig he is so used to debating with randos on his streams for so long that he tends to forget some people actually listen to every word that he utters and can hold him accountable. With that said, I think most of us got the point that Tiny was trying to make (except for the right-wing nuts), but yeah, he needs to learn to be more intentional and careful with his words when debating certain people.

[@Bombbashable]

He's talking about the redistribution of FOOD

[@petrovpetrovsky]

The difference is destiny is regurgitating information hes memorised but doesn't understand where as Jordan doesnt have these phrases and catch words and copy and paste statements and he actually Understands what he is saying

[@user-ik5ze1sh7i]

Ding ding, I heard someone say destiny is book smart but not wise

[@hopeintruth5119]

The difference is that Jordan doesn't have the information or context in many topics that allow someone like destiny to easily frustrate him. You can't just be only wise in topics. You must understand the situation and look at the data

[@whitejodeci8926]

Bingo. Just like when he tried to argue with an ACTUAL divorce attorney about divorce proceedings 😂

[@rokoi3]

Destiny correctly points out that as soon as his point on anything (climate vs weather, malevolence vs stupidity, etc) develops, Peterson goes on another tangent, and they never hash out why one POV is more suited than the other. Going on tangents is basically playing defense w.r.t. one's views. A productive debate would do the opposite, and try to reconcile the POVs before moving on. This is coming from someone who watched all of JP's content 2015-2018. JP's approach may work in psychology, to offer multiple interpretations for the same one behavior. But it's such a waste in policy or harder sciences. It's emotional appeal and little else. That's not enough for good decision-making.

[@whitejodeci8926]

@rokoi3 what? Destiny is the human personification of a tangent. He spews misinformation or down right wrong information and floods the conversation to avoid it being called out. JP didn't allow any of that, if anyone is going on a tangent, it's destiny

[@valdasdr8432]

Dude lost the same debate twice lol.

[@jojolocoblue1548]

Destiny is dumb

[@mitchelldensford6398]

Destiny is a living, breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. He researches just enough to be ultra confident in his takes while simultaneously understanding close to nothing about the subjects he speaks on. He always manages to land on the left-most peak of the Dunning-Kruger chart on every topic. It’s impressive.

[@user-pi4qo3zc2e]

@@mitchelldensford6398 The weirdest take in this was his dismissal of Dr Campbell. If Destiny was aware of his videos to the point that he could recite Campbell's channel evolution from pro-vax to anti-vax, he must've watched quite many of those videos. Yet as Campbell started seeing warning signs and turning against mass vaccination, Destiny apparently started dismissing him altogether and stopped following. In other words, he stopped watching Campbell because Campbell stopped reinforcing his worldview. He is actively avoiding information that hurts his predetermined political stance. On the excess deaths, the number 20% does not come from Campbell's videos but actual data. The total EU stats are slightly misleading because the eastern bloc with less covid vaccination has negative excess deaths, which averages down the much higher excess deaths in western Europe. The excess deaths as raw numbers are around 10% higher in the west, but we should not have 0% excess deaths. We should have negative excess deaths because pandemic mainly impacted the older population, just like eastern Europe has. Thus the exact real number of excess deaths requires accounting for the change in population pyramid, and it is closer to 20% with some error bars. The real problem is that we do not know how it evolves from here, it still has the possibility of becoming much worse. I don't like putting silly betting numbers on the chances of it becoming worse, we actual scientist don't play dice on these issues, just simply stating that the possibility exists that we will have massive cancer, heart, blood clots, and liver issues down the road.

[@mitchelldensford6398]

@@user-pi4qo3zc2e Thank you very much for this elucidation. I was a bit confused when I looked at the data for myself because, just as you said the raw numbers do not show 20%. However, in light of what you said this makes complete sense. The true excess death percentage to worry about is the one relative to what the excess deaths should be, rather than an arbitrary baseline of zero.

[@maxgill6738]

Destiny is kind of in denial that he lost thjs debate on most points. Every leftists thinks they're gonna lay down a smack down on the Dr until they actually sit down with him.

[@dalnim4294]

He's not a leftist, he's a liberal. They're two different things.

[@themightiness]

@@dalnim4294 and yet, both equally terrible

[@dalnim4294]

@@themightiness Not really, dude. Liberals are pro-capitalism and leftists are socialists/communists. One is WAY worse.

[@charleyhinton1]

@@dalnim4294 Anyone that thinks that forced redistribution is unproblematic is purely a leftist.

[@justanumber9053]

He made some good points. Even JP said Destiny was clever.

[@grogdizzy5814]

If you went into this discussion with the purpose of finding truth or understanding instead of trying to justify your beliefs then you wouldn't have looked so foolish.

[@KindEvening]

I agree. I think people calling him the “Ben Shapiro of the left” really got to his head. It seems like he believes he’s an intellectual giant who doesn’t think that there’s anything to be learned from anyone else.

[@hopeintruth5119]

Finding truth and understanding would be reading a book, listening, looking to more data and actual scientists and maybe philosophers. When you go to talk to someone else who isn't an expert. What you are doing is understanding another perspective, giving you something to look at and work upon. I started noticing fast when I was young. You don't learn through random conversations with others that have no connection to certain topics. Like J.P bias talk on Climate Change. It only gives another perspective to look at

[@rokoi3]

I don't understand how JP fans don't recognize him tangent-jumping as soon as a contrary argument is developed. His only defense is "I'm not saying that... (e.g. vaccines are causing excess deaths, etc.)". That's not even a defense, that's just ignoring what he previously insinuated

[@jakeowen2623]

No way you made a 2 hour video to try to discredit his arguments after he cooked you in the actual discussion 😭 gotta take your Ls gracefully man. I came away from that conversation with respect for you for attempting to debate him, god knows he’s got us all outgunned. But that respect has dissipated after this. Very petty to retroactively try to win a debate with something like this.

[@avengerofthedead142]

Why do you take issue with this? To my understanding, he does it to gain the most factual insight into his view and his opponents view. I wish more people did this. Neither Destiny nor JP were ever going to change their mind sitting across from one another with the cameras rolling but this gives Destiny the chance to check anything he may have been wrong about and learn. I don't watch Destiny too often, but he's got my respect for being the only 'political' person I've seen change their mind when it was unpopular to do so because he believed he was wrong.

[@brianallen1559]

@@avengerofthedead142I agree, even if you don’t like destiny this seems like the best case scenario, for him to go check things he was unsure of and dig deeper into what the other debater was saying g

[@incarnate1]

He really did get cooked and exposed for the internet warrior he is.

[@itstoogooditswaytoogood3211]

JBP posts KZbin shorts clipchimping Destiny's side of the conversation...

[@Chrislevesque91]

I'll fix your title "I got buried, so I spent another 2 hours re-arguing against a computer screen, did I do better?"

[@rokoi3]

Destiny didn't modify one take from the debate in his added commentary. I don't understand how JP fans don't recognize him tangent-jumping as soon as a contrary argument is developed. His only defense is "I'm not saying that... (e.g. vaccines are causing excess deaths, etc.)". That's not even a defense, that's just ignoring what he previously insinuated

[@zeventic-9584]

​@@rokoi3not necessarily he's ADDING or reforming what he initially meant. Destiny was not prepared and rather went and re did his research just to formulate more constructive arguments smh. You can ant just lose a debate and then proceed to "elaborate" later.

[@rokoi3]

@@zeventic-9584 I remember more than one instance of JP going "well yes, ignorance or self-interest is an explanation, but SO IS MALEVOLENCE" with no further elaboration. If you have a timestamp, I'll listen again

[@zeventic-9584]

huh?

[@TheDmitriProject]

⁠​⁠@@rokoi3You just didn’t watch the entire debate then. Jordan clarifies the malevolence aspect later when discussing psychopathy. He builds the case for why he believes it is more probable than ignorance. Also self-interest and malevolence toward others are virtually the same thing. You have no idea what you’re talking about. An ant trying to understand whales.

[@freddypyotr3771]

I hate to agree with the Joker, but he was right about the vaccines. They absolutely said that it will stop transmission, that's why I got my first 2 jabs.

[@jameslee-kh5xt]

Same here. They said it will stop the transmission causing lesser outbreak was what they were claiming . N 4 months after me n my family 2nd jabs we all got covid.. n then those who pushed vax mandate start saying they did not say anything about transmission or it is stupid of me for believing their words at that time lol.

[@adrian-dragosbalaban6401]

Yep. It was all over the news in Romania, too.

[@pookz3067]

It objectively did reduce transmission, for the obvious indirect reasons, right? Isn’t that part proven behind a doubt? It just not causally stop or reducing them directly, which is what some made it seem?

[@adrian-dragosbalaban6401]

@@pookz3067 No, they harped on about it having a 95% success rate for reducing transmission and immunity if I remember correctly. They never said it would happen but only eventually

[@MrClassytangerine]

​@@pookz3067that's just a fancy way of stopping transmission. To make that claim medically it has to actively stop transmission which it didn't do. It's kinda like saying that Tylenol will help stop you from getting the flu

[@RichardWilliams-bt7ef]

I like Destiny a lot but his "redistribution" take is garbage. The word means a lot more than the specific definition of taxing that he provides. It's like he's substituting some very specific colloquial sense of the word that he deems harmless and assuming that's the definition they're using.| You can't just say "this is what we're actually talking about" when that's clearly not what Peterson is actually talking about.

[@FalkoJ89]

Had they not removed the kulaks, would communism have been any better?! If the answer is no, then redistribution isn't the main component that made communism unviable. Obviously, policy wise, alienating the most productive part of your society was silly, but you could in practice not have done so. Yet communism still would have failed.

[@OBsurdityTV]

These types of comments have to be bad faith trolls. It’s pretty clear from their conversation what they are all alone into specific words. No one cares about how many different things A word can mean when the context demands a specific meaning.

[@feelthebern3783]

You're completely wrong, and it's extremely easy to prove why. First of all: If Peterson isn't aware that taxation means redistribution, that's on him. As a political pundit, he is SUPPOSED to be aware of this basic social relationship. Taxation/redistribution is some of the most ubiquitous means by which we organize society TODAY. I would pose that Peterson DOES KNOW that taxation is redistribution, and that is precisely WHY he's choosing to attack "redistribution" as a whole, and not the policies of USSR/China/etc in specific. Why? Because he's part of a RIGHT-WING PROJECT whose current objective is the lowering of taxes. That's why he's framing it as a "redistribution problem" more broadly, and not as a X/Y/Z policy problem. He's not making a neutral/unbiased observation of the past, but rather a employing a specific lens that allows him create his own narrative - ultimately to support his current political goals. The problem then, is that Peterson trips on a wire. He basically has to argue against everyone - leftists, social democrats, liberals, centrists, and even most right-wingers - who accept that taxes should exist, and therefore agree that not all forms of redistribution are necessarily bad. The only audience who'd still defend him after such a colossal mistake, are the useful idiots who can't put 1 and 1 together (which is basically the majority of right-wingers anyway). If I attack a broad category without making a clear distinction, I can't just randomly backtrack later by saying "nononono, you don't get it... in my heart of hearts, I don't believe ALL taxes are bad!" If he thought taxation COULD be good, he wouldn't attack "redistribution" as a whole. It's simple. And if he does believe taxes CAN be good, but chooses to attack "redistribution" anyway, that only shows how intellectually bankrupt he is (and no, that's not my problem). Or it shows that he's willing to lie to his audience, by doing a rhetorical sleight-of-hand, praying that they fall for his narrative. Conservatives have an extremely narrow view of politics/society. This is why they think gay rights are political but straight rights aren't, that black representation is political but white representation isn't, that stealing money is theft but corporate wage theft isn't, that rioting is violence but systemic violence/injustice doesn't exist, that banning gas stoves is authoritarian but banning books/medical procedures isn't, etc. This is why they'll label anything they don't like as "political", "redistributive", "violent" and "authoritarian", but meanwhile they 100% defend things that very much fall under those categories. The trick is to PRETEND like the things they defend don't fall under those categories, when they do. Taxation falls under the category of redistribution. If you're against redistribution, you are NECESSARILY against taxation. The end.

[@feelthebern3783]

@@OBsurdityTVThe context is that Steven is not a Communist. He is clearly not defending the specific type of redistribution called "collectivization". He is defending OTHER types of redistribution, which currently exist and work (like taxation), which Peterson clearly opposes by antagonizing such a broad category. Anyone who doesn't understand this must be acting in bad faith... or they're just really, really stupid. It's far more clear that Peterson is antagonizing taxation as a concept (which he is), rather than assuming that Steven supports collectivization. Now sure, Peterson's goal might not even be to abolish taxation all together. His goal is just to foment a moronic right-wing audience, who in turn will vote for "anti-redistribution" politicians, lowering taxes for the very rich and making them wealthier than they already are. That's his goal.

[@pookz3067]

If redistribution means so many things, from a spectrum of taxes to kulaks, then it is logical to say redistribution itself isn’t the problem, even when an individual instance of it causes problems.

[@SkyTapAngel]

This was an amazing debate Jordan Peterson did to Destiny what destiny goes to liberals when he disagrees with them . Peterson made Destiny’s arguments look weak and exposed destiny’s tricks that would work on other people

[@MrGgabber]

Yeah, I normally like Destiny and thought he did well against Shapiro and Finkelstein, but this was a very bad showing, cringeworthy how often he looked like a freshman student trying to debate a professor

[@avengerofthedead142]

I'm beginning to think people watched a different conversation than me. Did we even watch the vaccine portion? Admittedly, the redistribution part was bad on Destiny's end but what else?

[@MrGgabber]

@avengerofthedead142 the Catholic Church vs government argument was a giant L for Destiny

[@TheGreatOther7]

@@MrGgabber Which is quite exactly the case. Peterson is a Professor and Destiny has ousted himself as nothing better than a social media Twerp.

[@dave9547]

​@@avengerofthedead142how many boosters have you had buddy? Every 4 to 6 months was the recommendation so I hope youve continued being a good little boy and have had 10. Youre a selfish granny killer if you havent.

[@saltomanga]

Love u but you got bodied

[@0xiah]

He didn't say redistribution was *the* problem with communism, you said it wasnt at all and he said it was one of many.

[@jessequest8575]

Exactly lol

[@pookz3067]

If it’s one of many that implies even without the others it would have failed, which isn’t clear. Contributing to a problem in aggregate isn’t the same as being one of many problems. Destiny’s point was that while those instances of redistribution could have been a problem, it doesn’t show redistribution in general is a problem.

[@rocklemillion8041]

@@pookz3067 It doesn't imply that at all. What are you talking about? How would saying something has multiple problems that lead to its downfall mean that any ONE problem would do the same?

[@markymark637]

Bro the amount of cope from Destiny reviewing the Peterson convo.

[@hammondOT]

Dude, you might have impressed stoners in a dorm room who didn't really care, but you are completely lost in the real world.

[@MrFunzerker]

DAMN 😂

[@akrebsie]

So salty lol

[@dave9547]

Hahahah

[@PoliMaster64]

You can literally say the same about Peterson lmao

[@MrFunzerker]

@@PoliMaster64 You can but it's much more applicable in Destiny

[@lukasgaming82]

1:07:20 I am with JBP on the "poor people". Destiny keeps talking about helping "theoretical future poor people" at the cost or "real poor people existing today". I happen to be a poor person existing today and no offence, but fuck you for saying that future poor people are more important than poor people today.

[@pookz3067]

Right back to you for saying you’re more important. There’s obviously a weighing, as you can tell sie any to an absurd extreme (I’m sure even you can construct that thought experiments for yourself). Nowhere does Destiny imply every individual future person is worth more than individual poor people today.

[@avengerofthedead142]

Okay, perhaps I can say it better: *You are less important than the future.* Obviously, I think we shouldn't abandon current poor people, but you're incredibly selfish for not caring about the next generations. Maybe I was raised differently but I have a strong desire to set up the next generation for success. Again, if I'm alone in that then fuck me but I think there's other things we can do for you while setting up the future.

[@g00gleisgayerthanaids56]

​@@pookz3067but he implies it with his views on allowing todays poor to suffer in the hope that future generations maybe wont... peace is when men plant trees, knowing they will never enjoy the shade provided... if todays men cant afford to plant trees for future generations then there will be no shade for the future... Tldr: helping the poor today, absolutely helps the poor in the future.

[@TheHeightAdvantage]

Do you think we should be infinitely subsidizing coal mines to keep sending men in? Or should we move on to something better?

[@CeshvaJorda]

@@TheHeightAdvantage That’s exactly what Germany did because their renewables are highly unreliable. Forgive me if i’m not looking forward to rolling blackouts and being stranded on the road because I can’t charge my EV.

[@TheDemonPrince]

And this is what happens when a decent but forgettable Starcraft player ventures into politics!

[@Make-Asylums-Great-Again]

Spot on take!

[@highlanderc]

In the world of the blind the one-eyed is king.

[@mattymacd4179]

Destiny is slimy lol

[@jadonharper1493]

Mr. Borrelli, all due respect, this video does not show the entire discussion.

[@boomupengineering]

I watched Jordan and Destiny debate. That was interesting. I can't watch or listen to Destiny by himself. Destiny, you seem very frustrated with yourself but I can understand why.

[@KindEvening]

He really needs to get off the vyvanse. I swear his ability to stay on topic has somehow gotten even worse since he started taking it. He jumps around like a crack head.

[@MrRaposaum]

You're still wrong. And you know it.

[@zer0nix]

After reading so many of these comments, I think I'm beginning to understand the con worldview. It seems that in addition to confusing intuitive feelings with rational thought, cons do not appear to perceive that others can actually have a different experience from them, hence those who disagree must 'know that they are wrong'. This is absolutely fascinating. It's like witnessing a kind of primitive human that is incapable of actually thinking, or at least is incapable of distinguishing between feelings and thoughts.

[@pookz3067]

⁠@@zer0nixI think it’s just a consequence of con men being one of the least introspective demographic slices you can name.

[@lolsing2205]

the garbage redistribution point destiny just spewed exposes his ego so badly

[@bokajon]

How so?

[@user-fy5xn1se5g]

loses arguments, makes video's trying to justify himself, JP already moved on.

[@kims4333]

Jordan Peterson yelled monologued his unhinged conspiracy theories 80% of the debate. Anyone who thinks Peterson did well here is a low info 🐑. Ever since Petersons break down and benzo addiction, he’s lost his way to tinfoil hat lunacy

[@krta1773]

​@@kims4333If you copepost the same thing under 1500 more comments you'll probably make it true and your idol will be saved. You're doing good so far, but you have to keep going

[@jonglenister8140]

@@krta1773 what, you mean like the infinite copeposts under every destiny video from his fans insisting that he's right about everything and has never lost a debate. yeah the growing popularity of your idol destiny is only making more non fans aware of him and his schtick isn't going to last. hes had you lot fooled for a long time but now that he's getting more attention, the world is just going to see straight through him. pretty soon he's either going to have to give up and disappear or we will witness him become a famous but laughable cringe hack, equivalent to being one of the women on 'the view'

[@Djcjx91]

@@krta1773your post reeks of even more copium lol

[@krta1773]

@@jonglenister8140 you got the wrong guy lol. I was actually replying to some destiny fan cause I noticed he was spamming the same post under every anti-destiny comment.

[@SwizzleStickMcGee]

"Watch a gamer debate a genius & learn absolutely nothing after 2hrs..." This is becoming a pattern... I tip my hat that you always step into the arena. I just can't figure out how you walk away from conversations with so many interesting people with absolutely nothing learned from it.

[@tyguy477]

Excellent point. Never looked at it like that but it couldn't be more true. "Debate me harder bro" at it's finest, he's to busy trying to make a better argument

[@sanguisbibimus]

This whole reaction is you just saying that you were right and that he was wrong and rarely responding to his points. For the most part he clearly won the debate.

[@John-lx3jf]

Right? This whole stream was the equivalent of shower thought.

[@castion4181]

This video is a glaze session but it's wild to me you think peterson came out stronger than destiny in the debate

[@roarbertbearatheon8565]

@@castion4181 The climate topic alone was enough to conclude Destiny was the loser in the debate. He had absolutely no answers for anything Peterson said about that and then changed the subject. It was embarrassing

[@John-lx3jf]

@castion4181 so the people with common sense understand that destiny lost this debate for a plethora of reasons, one of the major ones being the topic of redistribution. You're very obviously a fan -boy of destiny that can't even see the truth of the matter and its very sad, you're a sad individual if you can't think for yourself, which is the majority of destiny's audience.

[@wwebb1]

This is the video where Destiny ran into an intellectual buzzsaw.

[@BLOOD8270]

It was like a fight between Mike Tyson and a sandwich LOL

[@hanksoandso8778]

Destiny is the least self aware intellectual on KZbin it is matched only by his arrogance.

[@Make-Asylums-Great-Again]

He has a decent bit of willful ignorance sprinkled in as well.

[@Icedanon]

It feels like he's built a career around defending the indefensable. He walked the road and can't go back now. Where would he be if he turned republican? I don't think anyone would care anymore. The only reason people care about him now is because he is the only Democrat voting personality that's willing to have a civil debate.

[@avengerofthedead142]

It's so funny because I swear he said in this video even that it's clear who "won" the "debate" when you see more personal attacks than any actual disagreement with substance. You could've at least attacked his redistribution comment.

[@devinhoyt2935]

@@Make-Asylums-Great-Again When people talk like this without specific examples they're willing to defend, it all reads as cope.

[@dukeofdenver]

Destiny's point on redistribution is like saying people in a burning building died from smoke inhalation, not the fire. That's technically true, but you've only shortened the causal chain.

[@richardhands904]

Redistribution is later in the chain than a command economy. So ironic.

[@Alex_Johnson_]

Redistribution and Centralized Economies are 2 completely separate things. There are plenty of countries that are successful even with a relatively high level of redistribution (Nordic countries). There are literally 0 successful countries with a centralized economy. That's the point Destiny was getting at.

[@leadfaun]

Jordan conflating Soviet redistribution with any other form of socialism is dumb, but so is Destiny saying that it *isn’t* redistribution.

[@Alex_Johnson_]

@@ergot1803 Literally every developed nation has some level of redistribution. What you are referring to is *expropriation* , which isn't inherent to the concept of redistribution.

[@connect2437]

Capitalism also fails to distribute enough resources to everyone and also had massive famines. So it’s just a pointless thing to say. The famine in Ukraine was a genocide. Maos great famine was due to dumb af science they used

[@DerDoenerInMir]

The free market redistributed Destiny's wife to another dude.

[@nick-py7xm]

… DAMN.

[@dave9547]

*many other dudes

[@AABradyKK]

Boom roasted

[@JohnDoe-iw8je]

Lol Jordan made him look like a complete joke. Seems like that's happening to destiny quite a bit recently.

[@MrGgabber]

I thought he did well against Finkelstein and Shapiro, but yeah, he did very poorly here

[@happyhappy85]

Dude Jordan is a complete joke.

[@JohnDoe-iw8je]

@@happyhappy85 I don't like him either. But he absolutely crushed destiny here.

[@valdasdr8432]

@@happyhappy85 your parents think the same about you.

[@pookz3067]

@@JohnDoe-iw8jeI agree he’s a complete joke and that he crushed Destiny here.

[@Schacal6666]

Destiny nearly debated everyone and every podcast in the last 13 months

[@jordanssfor]

destiny vs the world

[@Shadowbanned4Lyfe]

And still failed to prove anything other than he’s a sperg.

[@wazah1878]

And got schooled

[@highlanderc]

@@wazah1878by everyone!

[@adamriddles]

Its a shame his record was so abysmal in them. Jordan really wrecked him

[@slothbear6158]

Yes, famine was caused by the unfair distribution of food to cities during a massive food shortage, however that food shortage was largely caused by the redistribution of land from wealthy kulaks to peasants who did not have the experience to efficiently produce the amount of food needed to feed the population. The distribution problem was largely caused by the redistribution problem. This was compounded by the fact that the soviet government was paranoid and believed that the reason food quotas were not being met was because farmers were hiding and stealing food; which they were to some extent but nowhere near the quantity that was believed as the farmers were starving too. This led to the the soviet government forcing farmers to meet quotas by submitting the next years seed in place of missing crops thinking that this would force them to give up the hidden food (which didn't exist) or risk losing everything the following year. This compounded the famine heavily. Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder gives a very good account if anyone is interested in the details.

[@kgm2182]

*Destiny met his fate. LOL. NEVER do this again. Stick with debating your fellow KZbinr airheads. There are leagues and then there are leagues and you were way out of yours.*

[@kims4333]

Jordan Peterson yelled monologued his unhinged conspiracy theories 80% of the debate. Anyone who thinks Peterson did well here is a low info 🐑. Ever since Petersons break down and benzo addiction, he’s lost his way to tinfoil hat lunacy

[@KindEvening]

@@kims4333you have no argument besides baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks

[@gazzarip]

hahaha` when you have to do your own reaction video when your opponent isnt there to defend himself or correct you is laughable...you got absolutely torched and made a fool of in that interview..Sorry destiny a over infllated opinion of your own knowledge will never trump truth or facts

[@marlivalenze3926]

Destiny always do reviews/reaction of all his debates. Its part of his content

[@vspr8344]

W take

[@regularyt-pz4ki]

destiny is what happens when the internet makes you think you are an intellectual

[@gmee123]

He's self important fool.

[@PoorStargazer]

Destiny is the kind of guy to argue with someone to win

[@marcoperrott8160]

This is a fail, you’re editing and pausing for your convenience and potentially misunderstanding and misleading what JP was saying. Boo 👎🏼 👎🏼

[@MarblesMiller]

Imagine getting destroyed on every comment you had and shower thoughting it months later, and then posting it online. You lost the initial debate, you lost your shower thoughts, you lost your girlfriend and you are almost as bad as Hasan. Quit while you are ahead brother.

[@raw_bacon_taco564]

Who else here uses Destiny as a test subject for how individuals apply coping mechanism?

[@Le_Trouvere]

When he said redistribution he meant the scale of it, under soviets, I.E. literally taking anything they want and murdering the owners in most cases. He was very specific about what he was referring to. And you said it wasn't an issue which is actually crazy.

[@dreamspeakhomie]

That's not true. destiny did not say it was not an issue, they both agreed that the more primary issue was the decision making marketplace disrupting issue that would come and make those Bad redistributive decisions in the first place.

[@bradtaylor77]

Tiny said "When you look at the fall of the soviet union and the fall of socialist regimes redistribution wasn't the reason they failed" he was talking about the issues with the economic model. Thats why he bought up free markets. JP then starts talking about Kulaks which has nothing to do with what Tiny is talking about.

[@captainradio5894]

@@dreamspeakhomiehe said it wasn’t an issue at all

[@ToveriJuri]

@@captainradio5894 Timestamp?

[@droptableaccount1820]

Destiny is so delusional sometimes. Not redistribution. Ok.

[@inetnomad3521]

In Venezuela, the price controls were also applied to products at the stores as well, not just producers and importers. Retailers that had already paid producers at a price, were forced to sell at a loss to accommodate the whims of government policy drafted days earlier.

[@inetnomad3521]

Venezuela also manipulated prices via forex controls. At the end of the day, the Venezuelan managed economy was managed poorly.

[@nikhourston-taylor2011]

Destiny sure thinks he's smart but has a Headline grasp of all affairs he talks about. Ego is the downfall of man.

[@KindEvening]

His only strategy is memorizing Wikipedia pages and regurgitating corporate media propaganda. Unfortunately I don’t think he, or his followers for that matter, are intelligent enough to recognize when he’s been bested - nothing will ever deflate his ego.

[@captainradio5894]

Redistribution isn’t taxes

[@minhdo3482]

This wasnt verbal sparring. Tiny got fken stabbed

[@davidhowardkiwisurfer3997]

Destiny just was out of his depth in this one

[@ttzzttzctzz847]

This is so frustrating to watch. Destiny gets caught up in all the little bullshit and still will not understand the main point. Centralizing power leads to bad outcomes because of the computational problem. Even if you believe we have perfectly noble regulators that want to control for climate change, the evidence points to the fact that they missed the mark, e.g. Germany, which is evidence plenty that as Jordan said, the computational problem stays with you whether you want to do redistribution or control "negative externalities". They got caught up in the possible motivations, but that really doesn't matter. Decentralized solutions are superior, that's the point. I don't want some regulators make "educated guesses" about how many poor people they can sacrifice with their market distortions to hypothetically save the planet, or save people from covid with mandatory vaccines.

[@WizzKidxKOx]

Yeah D needed to treat him like Sargon not Econoboi

[@FalkoJ89]

Those main points are not compelling when you are using 100 decontextualized claims, some of which are plain wrong. If we take energy in Germany, most businesses would obviously have collapsed if energy prices were 5 times higher. How is that a compelling argument?! Destiny is not even disagreeing with the principle of "decentralized solutions being superior", tackling climate change through market-based strategies is absolutely possible. But it's about where you put the benchmark. Jordan's positions are extreme and it's not difficult to see why a neoliberal person would want to roll those back a few steps into a more sensible position.

[@theprinceofpie]

Destiny would agree that decentralized solutions are better. That's the point of using carbon taxes to reduce externalities. The individual actors can decide whether to eat the cost or find ways to reduce their carbon usage.

[@DahVoozel]

Do you see the efforts of Ron DeSantis to limit businesses ability to require vaccinations or masks, centralize control over special economic districts and limit parental choice in thier children's healthcare and social lives are good things?

[@ttzzttzctzz847]

Well, I certainly haven't researched this stuff but I saw many videos saying energy intense industry in Germany is indeed having these troubles. Quick google search says so too and that they are trying to make it work with subsidizing those industries and smoothing out the transition. Which means the taxpayer pays for it, which means less money for other good stuff or even higher taxes, on a populace that is already massively tax burdened and old. So looks like the Germans are trying to tape over the cracks but will inevitably just get poorer from this point on no matter what they do, since they need to pay for the more expensive energy somehow. Am I wrong about this? Btw english is not my first language and I don't know what you mean with the benchmark. I just think the subsidiarity principle is very important and we shouldn't use fearmongering rhetoric about climate change to justify sweeping top-down regulations of the energy economy which will definitely make everyone poorer when there is a great chance that technological innovation will give us cleaner and cheaper energy, which is the track record so far, way before we "ruin the planet". Which was Peterson's point about predictions of the economy. Innovation changes the economical landscape so fast, it's really hard to justify making everyone poorer when God only knows what technology we will have in just 20 years let's say. And the US + EU are nowhere near the biggest polluters in the world despite their output, because of these advancements, which will continue if we let them. And since the risk of centralizing power and making people poorer by distorting the market is a certainty while the benefits are up in the air, we should push responsibility down to the most local and individual level as possible.

[@plet774]

Destiny getting too sure of himself debating other dummies. He’d do better to understand what Jordan was saying. I thought JLP was falling off until I saw this.

[@LuciferArc1]

Jordan is very insightful on two things he has studied the absolute hell out of, communism and psychology. Trying to argue with a dude who's spent his life studying those two things and only knowing the surface of them is not going to go well

[@tnsxpm]

Mr. Ghirardelli! You have yet to present a single iota of chocolate!

[@clipcastshows]

Destiny definitely lives in a bubble

[@thebronzemanticore]

Destiny: stealing is ok if the victim can afford to lose his property

[@lautarotrefilio4773]

yes but unironically

[@kiptelgat]

my dude did you see his Rittenhouse takes? 😂

[@s-tierkeyboardwarrior-lvl4686]

@@lautarotrefilio4773 Destiny definitely supports property rights. Y'all give JP fans a bad name with such uncharitable interpretations

[@gagewesterhouse9558]

My opinion of Jordan Peterson has gone down in the last couple years. My opinion of Destiny has gone up. But I think Destiny was stupid to compare the Catholic church to national governments and multinational mega-corporations. Edit; to be clear, I'm not a big fan of the Catholic Church. I'm a Lutheran; we don't exactly bow to the authority of the Papacy. My point is this; if you decide one day that you will reject the authority of the Catholic Church, you won't get arrested for it. With a government, you WOULD be arrested. If one day you decide that you are no longer going to associate with the Catholic Church, you will not likely not lose any access to basic goods or services that we in the 1st would consider to be necessary to live a modern life. With a mega-corporation, you likely would.

[@10kanutt]

In it's current incarnation, sure, but the catholic church used to tax and use force, and wield political power. Given the opportunity to, the catholic church would absolutely want to return to that level of influence (or at least certain factions within the church would want that)

[@heroricspiritfreinen38]

​@@10kanuttdestiny changed the goal post immediately after Peterson called out that silly example Destiny wasn't talking about the past which is why he didn't just correct Peterson

[@10kanutt]

@@heroricspiritfreinen38 yeah, destiny didn't make the point in the argument. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm merely pointing out that his argument is functionally correct based on the historical past on the Catholic Church. Even though he did not make that argument in the debate

[@JR-wf5kg]

@@10kanutt He was talking about the Church today not a thousand years ago. 😂

[@termitreter6545]

Tbh Jordan Peterson just isnt qualified to talk about politics imo. And they seem to have affected his beliefs about psychology as well, or at least how he talks about it now (if he was always that way). Stuff like "remote diagnosing" someone on twitter is just a massive no go.

[@davemcveigh3996]

Apparently speaking really fast doesn’t mean you know more. This is verbal equivalent of watching a methhead disassemble a radio.

[@FXGAMECENTER]

Dude…. It’s 3:14 in the morning and you got me over here bursting with laughter 😂😂

[@LWatson-]

Hilarious. Destiny clearly learned nothing from this discussion/debate. Has talking points ready because he's unable to engage critically in the moment. Then he has the nerve to paint Jordan in a false light after the debate? Clearly the lens through which Destiny views the world is not based on morality, but solely self-serving principles. It's actually funny that most of his audience can't recognize that JP called Destiny out for this, and alluded that he has psychopathic tendencies. Good luck to you all!

[@williamhornabrook8081]

It was a fun watch to see Destiny clash with Peterson. They maintained very high energy for a two hour podcast.

[@TheRedBrethren]

a clash implies somewhat even intellects. Destiny doesn't even qualify as a pseudo intellect

[@dalnim4294]

@@TheRedBrethren This is stupid because even Peterson called him smart multiple times.

[@roarbertbearatheon8565]

@@dalnim4294 To be polite. Peterson was giving lessons more than having a debate

[@jce-eu9dz]

​@@TheRedBrethrenwhy have you gone out of your way to find a destiny vid, find a comment, and respond negatively. Are you okay

[@fossilrexjaw6473]

You were wrong about basically everything in this whole debate, but you weren't an asshole, and the arguments you presented were at least well thought out. Not that its a very high bar to clear, but you're definitely the smartest left-wing political commentator on the internet. Respect.

[@Neil.K]

LOL

[@Macheako]

“You’re the smartest dummy, dummy” ❤

[@hedilow3247]

Republicans and prepossession. The meat riding is hilarious😂

[@ghostwitch644]

Lmao known genius @fossilrexjaw6473 is absolutely certain that he has the correct takes, and everyone else is wrong. Incredible stuff

[@JohnyTuff1]

@@ghostwitch644 An opinion...wow incredible stuff

[@moldbrain660]

“Redistribution and taxes have nothing to do with socialism” bro that’s literally what socialism is.

[@TheDraco175]

There is no argument whatsoever for sin taxes.

[@valdasdr8432]

Destiny saying that Peterson gave a dumb take on depression and ADHD is just peak delusions. Dude was the most famous and respected psychologists on youtube before he gave a stance on totalitarian government reach. While there's destiny, a guy reading wikipedia lololololol.

[@hallahallaful]

Why does destiny always say "when we think of redistribution in the west" and goes on to argue against his personal definition of the word, instead of the real meaning of the word.

[@yelnatsch517]

Because he’s arrogant to believe that how he thinks represents everyone in the west. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ToveriJuri]

Because he's conflating the west with America. Destiny is right in that most Americans know jack shit about communism in Soviet Union and adjacent regions.

[@pookz3067]

It’s just a fact that if you google “redistribution” or especially “redistribution of wealth,” more uses of redistribution agree with Destiny’s usage than not. Of course we can always talk at the most general usage level but the definition of a word is, by definition, how it in fact gets used in life. Destiny is not using an idiosyncratic definition here, just a more context dependent one than Peterson is.

[@hallahallaful]

@@pookz3067 peterson didn't say "redistribution of wealth". You did the same thing as destiny.

[@hallahallaful]

@@pookz3067 it doesn't matter if more of the definitions line up with destinys. If one lines up with petersons, destinys knowledge on the issue is lacking. Destiny didn't know other uses of the word, or was dishonest.

[@MustardSkaven]

Sorry but I can't watch Destiny without hearing "Mister Borelli!" in my head.

[@davewolfe2668]

Such an egomaniac that destiny can't admit when he takes a loss.

[@brizziefritz4794]

Disaster of a debate. Jordan Peterson brings up a topic or a theory, asks Destiny for his views. Destiny says something unrelated (mostly "but Trump", "but conservatives"), when prompted he says he'll get to the answer which he never does. Instead brings up another topic. Jordan Peterson gives his views again, asks for Destiny's views, Destiny goes off-topic again. And so on for over two hours. Missed opportunity. No discussion of ideas. Destiny wasn't able to address issues properly, Jordan Peterson did pull him back to the topic at hand.

[@ScibbieGames]

Did Mr Bourgeoisie just say JP, a clinical psychologist, knew less about ADHD..?

[@mahboi08]

No, he said that he uttered some crazy things about ADHD

[@mike_theskinny8646]

​@@mahboi08 well, presuming something that a person of expertise said in that same particular field is " outrageous " can be implicitly deduced, reasonably so to them " knowing less " it's essentially dumbing down someone's excellence and integrity And it's barely anything political to begin with, it's unfortunate that destiny does this common-sense tactic with no empirical data to back up his claims, where he would just skim over an factual analysis whenever he sees a substance of unfairness in any statement that is presented because it doesn't align with his anecdotes and moral compass, sometimes the truth isn't always tender ".

[@dalnim4294]

@@mahboi08 I like both Destiny and Peterson. But why does Destiny think he has the authority to say Peterson says crazy things about ADHD? Peterson was a practicing therapist and helped patients who had ADHD.

[@wmd13194]

​@@dalnim4294 he's a jackass who thinks he knows everything. He thought he knew more than a divorce lawyer who has 20+ experience in divorce court. He thinks he's smart because he speaks fast

[@pookz3067]

@@dalnim4294idk what was said, but it’s reasonable that an individual can understand one medical concept, and that a doctor could have a crazy view in that one concept. I don’t think more authority than that is needed. I’m sure there are many doctors with ideas you have the authority to label as crazy. Aren’t you yourself 100% sure of that? Idk what Destiny means in particular but your seven stop in nprinciple seems fine.

[@bennykopilevic7510]

I did not know who destiny was, I wish that was still the case.

[@goeiemorrege1]

why does jp have to debate this grown child?

[@awgmax]

Redistribution is an issue. Personal property and means of production and confiscated by the state. Wealthy people's homes and factories are stolen from them.