Destiny Reveals Experiences & Insights from His First Visit to Israel | On Meaning - Tamir Dortal

[@amitabhsharma3916]

I like how the interviewers remained extremely polite and carried on the conversation despite seeming to have significant disagreements with Destiny's opinions at some points

[@ODR96]

Jewish culture is built on debate and discussion. It's one thing I really admire about them, generally, they know how to speak to people they can often fundamentally disagree with

[@ARE_YOU_SICK_OF_YT_CENSORSHIP]

@@ODR96 or scream at each other when they disagree LOL have you watched Knesset sessions or its committee meetings?

[@yedum321]

Significant disagreement? That's funny.

[@wittmoneyman]

@@yedum321 How do you find that funny?

[@backupdset471]

@@ODR96 Except they're thieves and genocidal maniacs

[@robf5230]

I love how frank and earnest this conversation is. People don't need to see perfectly eye-to-eye to have a conversation, and sadly that's something we're losing in internet age. This video helped me better understand the Israeli perspective, which is easy to lose watching Americans talk about a country and culture we may support but aren't a part of.

[@TheLacedaemonian300]

I had a feeling that Steven would feel in the right place speaking with Israeli's. There is no time for playing word games in Israel, you have to be honest and frank. It's a good fit for Steven.

[@yoavba5706]

It's not Israeli perspective, it's right-wing Israeli perspective (On Meaning is a right-wing leaning podcast).

[@liltupac1536]

🇵🇸

[@robf5230]

@@yoavba5706 I gathered. Obviously nobody speaks for every side of any country.

[@jaygio]

So many bots, it's too funny. JlDF is hurting bad............ never seen such pr0pa ganda before on YT. Unprecedented levels

[@LiiRAE.]

Something to add/clarify about destiny's motivations is that ultimately the main lesson he wants to teach his audience is the methods he uses to learn and process information, which he displays quite often on his stream. He doesn't want you to just "copy" his conclusions on any given topic, he wants you to be able to understand a conclusion by learning his process of arriving there, so that you hopefully will arrive at good conclusions on your own and be able to defend them.

[@Turner6277]

Well put. Destiny is often taken out of context and quite often and does jump to conclusions on issues but he is one of the few people that will walk back his positions with no fear if he gains new information or feel hes holding poor or incorrect arguments. Ultimately being the most correct person feeds his ego which is why he values it more than being "seen as right". Bringing it back round to what you were saying, his method is the foundation of his pride and as long as people see him sticking to that he can feed his ego. Which is why you can trust him. (No man is free from anchoring bias's, we are all human but destiny atleast fights it)

[@maxismills]

Exactly. I like that he presents information as it is but also comments on it, but accepts disagreements (with call-ins, especially). I disagree on some points with the issue as I’m more of a classical liberal vs a more modern liberal like Destiny. I’ve done a lot of reading into modern terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda & ISIS vs just Hamas, so I have a lot more anger towards modern terrorism vs what he has shown

[@sarahk93882]

Definitely an interesting conversation. I would be interested to hear what they believe are reasonable requirements to get to those relationship improvements. Based of his ideas of incorporating more of the Palestinians into Israeli society. I understand why he thinks more inclusion would help but you cannot negate that Israel needs something in order to feel safe enough to do that. They have been trying to bring in Palestinians into Israel and to help them but those people either out of fear or hatred did not reciprocate the respect they received and gave away information that helped perpetrate the 7th

[@ginadamn1714]

very concise, ggs

[@LiiRAE.]

@@sarahk93882 That's understandable. As for something to start with, I think most people could agree that expanding settlements into the west bank is completely counter productive and only worsens relations and prospects of any peaceful solution. From Israels POV they will only win by laying more claim in the WB, but where does it end? The palestinian population isn't exactly going to disappear, on the contrary it's increasing. The status quo must change sooner rather than later. You have to ask yourself, how are 20% of palestinian israelis able to integrate but the others can't? Is it that they CAN'T integrate or is it that there are many roadblocks preventing integration from both sides?

[@trollingisasport]

I'm so proud of Mr. Bergerelli.

[@trinchuzosparty]

Mr..Bergaroni 😂

[@starlord157]

Mr. Bonellowitz

[@ronniekregar3482]

It's Stephan Bonellberg to you lol

[@Farscryer0]

Mr. Berneli

[@Fairfax.and.Melrose]

Amen! That Mr. Bonnel sure has come a long way

[@aj00]

From upgrading hatcheries to bringing world piece, proud of u Steve

[@retrograde126]

World "piece". Yep

[@JINX1441]

@@retrograde126 Luffy IRL fr fr

[@YousufS16]

Totally not paid to do all of this 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@skellymen2395]

​@@YousufS16 does everything have to be a conspiracy, this is so boring

[@boredom5132]

@@YousufS16bro makes millions already, doesn’t need to get paid.

[@Gutsuh]

doing this interview at 12 at night is crazy

[@timothyhodges]

Isn't that a timer?

[@Gutsuh]

@@timothyhodges look at borreli’s watch

[@Domebuddy]

@@timothyhodges at the end of the interview he says its past midnight. It's probably just the only time destiny didn't have scheduled for something.

[@markspectre1234]

Destiny is on a tight schedule trying to see as much as possible I assume

[@cameron.johnson]

it's 5pm EST so not too crazy for Destiny

[@DiscoBarrage]

destiny's haircut is clean

[@KRISTIANSMILJANIC]

Destiny actually looking like a functioning person in Israel has really been a game changer

[@jaaandro]

i really wonder what yall destiny fans be looking like if this haircut is clean to youu 🤣

[@moistcurtains]

Israel saved us from goatee mopstiny.

[@alisaglem]

​@@jaaandroyou didn't see him before

[@jaaandro]

@@alisaglem fair enough

[@Ludovit110]

Is it just me or did Steven slowed down his speech by like 50%?

[@happydeathfish2166]

Well he has time and room to talk.

[@milantarbuk1039]

He needs to slow himself down for these guys xD

[@uku5840]

Talking to a lot of english as second language people might have done that.

[@MrMango331]

The environment allows it.

[@rumblebanana30]

You do understand that the iq of destiny is only higher then the averge american right ... meaning its around 100... the podcaster have around 120iq while the child have around 130 iq ... be silent you amtishemic racist garbage person​@@milantarbuk1039

[@ZierynFX]

Thank you for giving destiny a respectful interview and make him feel welcome.

[@unisophia]

which he obviously doesn’t deserve.

[@Wawi633]

Excuse me, but are you Destiny's mother?

[@natalie_milo]

29:29 Saudi Arabia and Jordan helped because they are also against Iran, not because they love Jews. We are simply a good strategic partner for them.

[@scaryjoker]

Not even that, they just didn't want rockets malfunctioning over their airspace. If the rockets came from the Western sea instead, they wouldn't do anything.

[@davewade30]

"You make peace with DEFEATED enemies." Very true.

[@amarrustembegovic9828]

which you occupy... also very true...

[@razzle_dazzle]

It's a stupid outlook to have. If the enemy also has that view, then from their perspective, they need to defeat you before you both can make peace. So both parties keep looking to defeat the other and peace never comes.

[@davewade30]

@@razzle_dazzle Historically one side defeats the other. Then they make peace. It's not stupid. It's just how war works. As long as your enemy believes they can win, they won't stop fighting. You have to prove that resistance is futile. Then peace is possible. Well, I guess if your point is that war itself is stupid I can agree with that. I'd much rather see conflict resolved through diplomacy.

[@TM-vs4wt]

@@davewade30 would say the UK defeated the IRA or did the IRA defeat he UK? What about South Africa? Did the ANC defeat the South African govt? Your take is overly simplistic

[@davewade30]

@@TM-vs4wt Simply ask "Who achieved their goals?" That's who won. That doesn't necessarily mean that they totally demolished the other side. But it does mean that eventually the other side concluded they could not win for whatever reason. Whether it's lack of public will, lack of political will, lack of resources etc. etc. at some point one side gave up. Guerilla warfare might look different than one army crushing another. But in the end the same principles apply.

[@alonalbert]

Destiny comments around min 21 that in all the previous deals rejected by the Palestinians, there was something missing. Yes, the missing component is that in all the deals, Israel would still exist. And that is unacceptable to the the Palestinians.

[@nathanrain796]

You're missing the point he was trying to make, that the something missing isn't necessarily the dismantling of the Israeli state but that the thing missing was more like the Palestinians wanting to appear as if they had won in the outcome of the negotiations. Something they could be proud of when they went back to their people or other Arabs and say "look what we did".

[@alonalbert]

@@nathanrain796 Oh, I understood exactly what he was saying. I just think he's wrong.

[@nathanrain796]

@@alonalbert oh my bad, didn't realize you can only read half a sentence before responding. Shoulda kept it shorter for you.

[@Derploop]

Why should it be acceptable?

[@Ludovit110]

As a "European", having so many parties form a ruling coalition doesn't seem common or "good", as such coalition seems to have difficulty to come to agreement due to so many differing views.

[@boogiewg5141]

Isn't that the point of democracy?

[@EusebiusAT]

@@boogiewg5141 "democracy" can be interpreted 100 different ways. If that is your view of democracy, then why not go further and abolish representative democracy? Why not direct democracy? The truth is that "democracy" is only good if it is effective. A democratic state will lose legitimacy if it is not representative of the general public will, but it will also lose legitimacy if it is so fractured as to hinder political decisions from being made. It has to be a compromise between these two things. I like the model of proportional representation and parliamentary democracy, I think it works really well in central/northern Europe, but maybe that is because these countries are stable, prosperous and united enough to work under those parameters. I'm not sure this system works too well in other parts of the world I've seen. There is no ideal system for all nations.

[@nigelbellecoste1391]

Lol pure democracy does not work... And the claim that it does in central Europe is just ignorant... I'd look up the term cordon sanitaire if I were you... it's an autocracy where all the losing parties flock together just to retain power

[@LiiRAE.]

I think the downside of having coalitions is like destiny mentioned, a 6% polling party can have absolute power in some cases, which I think is something you don't want to see. On the other hand, a downside in the US is that generally third parties are nonexistent, and it can be very hard to move the masses from either side of the two big parties. You can say "we have primaries", but realistically speaking if you want to climb in either party you have to somewhat fall in line with the majority of voters anyway. Unless you elect a populist like Trump who makes it even worse and turns the majority of one side into what would be the views of a 6% party lol

[@EusebiusAT]

@@LiiRAE. I think a two party system like the US is probably never ideal, just because it inherently exists in a right vs left dynamic. The great thing about a European style paliamentary democracy is that the government can adapt to all sorts of political crises because it can take many different forms than just "left wing government" or "right wing government".

[@TASTYxxGALOR]

It's a very nice interview. My focus is mainly on Destiny here. What I'm seeing through his trip to israel is a combination of things: 1) appreciation for his curiosity and genuine attempt to understand every side, but 2) a lot of the gaps in his understanding. When he purely did historical and modern history/political research, he built an initial great framework. However, now that he's diving deeper into the weeds you clearly see a lot of the areas where he still has a shallow understanding. I'll give some examples. This interview is the first time I see him discussing the concept of 'honor' is Arab society. This is a great initial insight, which his true. Yet he still has no conceptualization about where this originates from, how deeply and in what ways it manifests, and how or even whether it's possible to interact with as a key factor in solving the issue. It's also clear he's still missing the role religion plays here, not so much in its manifestation in Hamas & Palestinian society over the past 20 years, but more broadly. What I mean is how religion helped shape the cultures in both sides, their moral landscapes, and political viewpoints. Also the interaction between geography & climate and how they shaped religion, especially in Islam that adjusted its political structure to the tribal nature of the Middle East. Finally, how religion interacted with German ideologies in the 19th century (a lot of what we call leftism today but that's an oversimplification) when wealthy Arabs lived in Europe. This all plays a huge role throughout the history of the conflict, where one side (Israel) has Jewish and liberal foundations, and the other (Arabs and now also Iran) are more Muslim and revolutionary in theirs. Of course when I say Muslim it's just a broad stroke, there are many ebbs and flows in Islam and today there's a great change in moral foundations in the Gulf. You'd had to go back from 1880s to 1979 Iranian Revolution also in reading about Islamic political thoughts to have a good grasp here. Finally, I think Destiny is still only scratching the surface when it comes to the role of international law. While he has a good understanding of the origins and logic of the laws, he has yet to conceptualize its practical implementation which is entirely political. He hasn't read of the history of the creation of the laws, how they were supposed to be applied, how they actually get applied and it's direct implications of Palestinian politics and Israeli attitudes. All in all, I'm very happy about Destiny's trip. I hope it opens his mind to the many other branches he's still clueless about and allows him to take us on deeper research adventures.

[@soverycomplicated]

@TASTYxxGALOR Wow & utterly brilliant! Have you fleshed out some of your thoughts in a public essay blog or book? Without being sarcastic maybe you should be appearing on some podcasts my friend? You just brought up some super salient points that gives me much to consider. Thank you & again wow If you’ve spoken/written on this topic I’d personally love if you could send me there. Thanks again dude & stay well

[@TASTYxxGALOR]

@@soverycomplicated thanks g. I sometimes write stuff but just on my personal social media for my followers (I grew up internationally so it's nice to write to people from all over the world, even if it makes some unfollow you hahahah). How do you get on stream with Destiny? I never figured it out

[@marron5272]

Who knew how much devotion Destiny would put towards his Jewlumni arc. I'm impressed

[@carnivorewitch]

im also surprised/impressed lol

[@Gee-xb7rt]

He can only take the tiniest of dicks, and Israel is well known to be the least endowed country on the planet.

[@user_h824]

פודקאסט מעניין!!! ❤

[@Ren99510]

It is a very tough climate over there. As Tamir has stated, Israel and many of its people have been very interested in total peace resolution with Palestine. However basically no reasonable deals can be brokered. On the other hand, as Destiny stated, you have Palestinians who's only interaction with Jews is basically when they come raid their village to find terrorists, and naturally, that is going to make you hate someone more. So unfortunately for Israel here, there is no objectively correct choice. There is simply no option which will make Palestinians happy, and that only leaves them with options to remove threats like Hamas at the detriment to the Palestinian people. I still find myself staunchy support Israel in the conflict, though. From my perspective, I see their side as the one who has tried to find peace over and over since the country's inception, and actually, they've done a very good job. They have good or neutral relations with every nearby Arab country (many of which have in the past tried to destroy them) and have effectively made peace with them. So, they're trying, and that's got to count for something. Meanwhile Palestinians are not trying to find peace, or at least not any peace solution that ends up with any free Jews in Israel.

[@amarrustembegovic9828]

lol isreal NEVER tried to have peace with the palestinians my guy... NOT 1 peace offer included that the palestinians can rule over their borders, have an army, get a sea and airport AND allow the right of return... go back to sleep, you are completely lost in the maze of your misinformed brainwashed mind...

[@thcrmsnchn1056]

Absolute nonsense you are taking here. You can say “Israeli people just want peace” all you like, but the fact is the Israeli government has done nothing meaningful to establish peaceful relations with the Palestinians since the murder of Rabin by ultra right wing zionists. What the government, and the people that vote for it actually believe is that they want a very specific type of “peace” where Palestinians are either dead, displaced or living in Israeli-designed ghettos with no hope of having any kind of political power. The reason Israel has attempted to normalize relations with Arab states (which it also doomed with its response to October 7) is because these are STATES, not stateless nations like the Palestinians. States have broadly recognized rights that other states will naturally care to uphold (for states specifically). For this reason, it would be impossible for Israel to get away with the kinds of atrocities it commits against the Palestinians with, say, Egypt. If they did this, the US would have no choice but to severely sanction them, which they can’t afford. Luckily for Israel, the US has not given a damn about the Palestinians for decades and are given Carte blanch to do whatever they please. There is an obviously correct answer to this crisis, which is for Israelis to end their illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, end the wanton slaughter of Palestinians, to allow Palestinians actual political agency free of Israeli interference. This as it happens is exactly what various Palestinian groups have been calling for decades, to simply be ignored by Israel. The leaders of the current government not only reject all of these outright but even called for the killing of Rabin for his role in the Oslo accords, which was the last meaningful attempt by The Israelis to make any kind of peace with the Palestinians. The only goal their current actions are working towards is total extermination of the Palestinians, which besides impossible to achieve also creates more terrorists and more enemies to fight. The Israelis want this though, because they know they have the upper hand in any game of violence and destruction. They are willing to allow any number of Palestinians and Israelis to die in order to achieve their actual goal, which is a broader Jewish ethnostate.

[@Derploop]

Israel have a problem where all historical justification lies with the successors of the then existing Palestinian population, so not only is there no correct choice, there's no righteous choice which isn't just packing up and leaving. Justice is factually incompatible with the continued existence of the Israel. It's hard to find a middle ground when a middle ground is just taking *less*.

[@alim1994h]

Not true. People are saying that the Palestinians don’t want peace, as if it’s an actual fact. 80%-90% want peace, and none of them say that they want to get rid of Israel. Heck, even H@m@s changed there stance a looooong time ago. They’re willing to compromise. Any peace deal they rejected in the past, they rejected because they were unfair af. Both parties need to gain something in a peace deal. Another thing is, you said there is no objectively correct choice for Israel, because of terrorism. What kind of justification is that? The violence stems from the oppression. Stop the oppression, and the violence stops. It’s really not difficult to understand. Don’t you think that that’s the objectively correct choice?

[@ONLYFACT_X]

wow wow wow wow wow wow the genocidal delusion, the ahistorical self cuckery. i have no words. i have no words other than shame on you that you have access to a keyboard but not to a simple google search or set of encyclopedia. wow.

[@urgadurga]

It actually feels really refreshing to see something like this. I've really wanted to get a larger array of perspectives on this conflict but all too often the far left, or isolationist right seems to be wholly uninformed and sometimes straight up malicious regarding this topic so they tend to offer little, if any value at all to these conversations. I haven't liked how the main people I've listened to about this conflict are people like Ben Shapiro or Douglas Murray, or certain hardline Israeli Zionists like Rebecca Bar Sef and Oren from travelingisrael, people I already agree with politically. I've built a media echochamber for myself. To hear someone who does have a different perspective from me, but is still incredibly informed about the conflict feels very refreshing. I have a lot of respect for Destiny for taking the time and effort he has to inform himself of the history and the conflict before deciding to speak about it. It's sadly quite a rare trait.

[@Blackbirdinthedeadofnight]

“Hardline Israeli Zionists” I don’t think you understand what Zionism is..

[@doesntmatter4136]

But there are still some significant issues with the points he's making. There's a reason people like Ben Shapiro or Rebecca Bar Sef hold the views they do. I said this in a comment here but Destiny holds the position of a mainstream Israeli leftist from 1990-2005. And there is a reason the Israeli left suffered greatly politically after the policies attempted during that time period.

[@adamclevi]

Yah, luckily having right wing parties control the country for the last 15 - 20 years has made everything here so great that we all learnt our lesson :)

[@roseg2239]

What’s wrong with Douglas Murray?

[@urgadurga]

@@Blackbirdinthedeadofnight Well it's the belief in a Jewish state on our ancestral homeland. But it's a spectrum. Destiny is a Zionist, but not a hardline Zionist. I think of really hardcore Zionists as ones who would defend West Bank settlements or a 1-state solution because of Jew's historic claim to the land. Though I don't believe Oren or Rebecca go that far. Obviously all Israelis are going to be Zionists but it ranges on how extreme their views can be. I suppose you could say Destiny is a "moderate Zionist" as he does believe in a Jewish state, and Ben Gvir would be like a hardcore Zionist or something.

[@JensAWorkInProgress]

I like how he says that the government structure is not good almost after he said that it’s not right to look at the issues through an American perspective.

[@HarderTime89]

Should people have thought that way about every nation throughout history? I mean it is our taxes

[@julianvega2677]

I mean, our two party system had left is with a choice between Biden and Trump. There's no way to argue that that is better. I love that destiny's Israelis podcaster counterparts talk game theory in politics.

[@Derploop]

The structure isn't good. Too much power is concentrated in the hands of a few, and that's a major barrier to the functionality of the system. Maybe it would be good in another country, but it's instantly apparent that it doesn't function in Israel.

[@dudemate3363]

I mean he was just sharing his opinion, and it's not like he doesn't have any idea about israeli politics and geopolitical situation. People all around the world shit on America's two party system, don't be so fragile.

[@horacefairview5349]

Such a great conversation - there was definitely push back and disagreement on both sides, but it wasn't at all in a way that prevented communication. It is Incredibly sad how rare this is.

[@celdur4635]

Destiny answered himself, "jews used to be able to go down to gaza to shop, hang around the beach" and then he said "before the second intifada", so it doesn't work, it didn't prevent anything. This idea we have about forging bonds and creating kindred didn't work. Didn't help the Jews in Germany or the Armenians in Turkey.

[@Raydensheraj]

Exactly. The problem of Destiny is that he is making the fallacy of seeing this in a perspective of an individual that has never experienced living around a big number of Islamic Arabs or other Islamic cultures. I have. And solong Islam hasnt been FORCED thru an enlightenment or an Reformation....I don't see it a compatible culture to Liberal Democracies.

[@ONLYFACT_X]

@@celdur4635 are you fucking kidding me? Seriously

[@lydiawilder5996]

It's mindset which makes it not work. There can be no peace without trust, and there can be no trust without a reason to build trust. If there is a way to agree to peace while letting Palestinians feel like they got the better deal, even if they aren't that will probably work.

[@celdur4635]

@@lydiawilder5996 Problem is there is no palestinian state that would control its own members if they want to continue the fight. Once Japan or Germany surrendered. That's it, no more fighting. Don't go that far, a random war Mexico vs US in 1840's. Once peace was signed, no random Mexican or US general was going to attack and create problems in each other's countries. You don't have that with Palestine because they never existed as a state or a nation, they were just the arabs who happened to be living there when the Ottoman Empire crumbled, a lot of whom were tribal people who moved from place to place. A LOT whom migrated to take advantage of Jewish investment in the first half of XXth century. All the things the Jews built from Tel Aviv to the north needed a lot of workforce, the Jews worked yes, but also they hired arabs to work as well. Whom do you sign peace now? There are many factions, Hamas is just 1 major faction there are like 14 below them, many are more radical.

[@ONLYFACT_X]

@@lydiawilder5996 ...........

[@Flyzo.0]

stay safe destiny! DGGL💙

[@welldonesir3996]

“L” 😂

[@jonny3124]

@@welldonesir3996 You are way too old to be laughing at that

[@welldonesir3996]

@@jonny3124 Too old to laugh, too young too not laugh. Live, laugh, let live, Your too constrictive to let me laugh?

[@HaraQuinn]

@@welldonesir3996 you mean "Wive, Waugh, Wet Wive"? no, for real though, dggL💙 came way way before w/l communities. it stands for Love. so dggLove. dggL💙

[@SomeCallMeTato]

​@@welldonesir3996true

[@AntonAdelson]

Good job with countering Destiny's arguments! It was done in a very polite and informative fashion! I hope he came back from this conversation with a lot more to think about and analyse!

[@lydiawilder5996]

I am not sure how you thought they were debating here?

[@HaraQuinn]

love Stevens hairmaxxing here. been loving these podcasts, and thank you for the host for having out beloved streamer to come on. despacito to on ground journalism. ;) dggL💙

[@NØTEK_333]

Truly beautiful to see an open discussion with strong dissagreements but all the freedom to express what either person believes, truly magnificent

[@InshushaGroupie]

Excellent discussion. Thank you so much.

[@shvnj]

DGGL 💙

[@Slice847]

Thanks for hosting this conversation.

[@doesntmatter4136]

His insinuation that Palestinians are 'second-class citizens' like jews were as Dhimmi is disgusting. There is a world of difference between a self-governing violent population that is frequently raided by a neighboring state to prevent terrorists from hurting citizens of that neighboring state (which routinely happens despite these efforts) and living as second-class citizens as mandated by law with reduced rights in your own country. Especially when the neighboring state repeatedly offers you land if you'd just be willing to stop the terrorism. What a fucking neauseating comparison.

[@areichental]

Probably in reference to gaza, not Arabs living in israel.

[@doesntmatter4136]

@@areichental He was talking about Arabs in the West Bank. Gaza hasn't had any Israeli presence in 20 years, so it's completely unrelated to this discussion. He is still profoundly wrong, because Palestinians in Areas A and B (where 90% of west bank palestinians live) govern themselves, with Israel sometimes raiding for targeted operations to arrest terrorists. This is not 'second-class citizens,' this is 'I have a fuckton of terrorists in my country and sometimes the neighboring country they terrorize crosses the border to arrest them.' You can criticize that, but it's not even remotely close to jews living as Dhimmi under muslim rule where they are forced to pay a special tax, aren't allowed to go to court, get regularly spat on and beaten, etc.

[@ogolthorp]

He’s talking about how people feel. And obviously there are many Palestinians who feel they are second class citizens. Whether it’s a fair comparison or not doesn’t change what people’s feelings are on the ground.

[@HarrDarr]

@@ogolthorp arabs are in generally really emotionally unintelligent so you have to appeal to their egoes all the time and it's funny how Destiny, a man with almost no experience dealing w. arabs understands this

[@reddillon8425]

you didn't understand what the conversation was about. This is a failing on your part. He was talking about the Palestinian PERSPECTIVE, whether that is the objective truth of the situation is irrelevant, he was talking about how Palestinians FEEL about the situation, and he described exactly how they FEEL. now stop fucking virtue signalling kid, it's cringe as fuck.

[@Buluga06]

Thank you for having this discussion

[@cheatyhotbeef2636]

Excellent convo

[@natalie_milo]

12:30 The difference is that the Arabs get satisfaction from scaring Jews, and it doesn't just happen in Jerusalem, it also happens in the cities in central Israel, and Destiny claims it's the same thing, which it clearly isn't - the army "scares" the Arabs not for fun, but because they committed an attack or terror And they have to pay for it. There is such a thing called "paying for your actions", a concept not so familiar in the West, I know.

[@Raydensheraj]

Dont forget he is an American who has NEVER lived around large groups of Islamic Arabs. Im an American, but grew up in Berlin, Kreuzberg....he doesn't know. A problem that has to be forgiven....its easy for Islamic theocrats to act like the victims....and the left wing American will fall for it. By heart these Americans are good people....but easily fooled. I have dealt with the fascist ideology of Islam....the aggressive nature of the young men.....the religious absolutism.....the violence. I grew up around Turks, Arabs, Lebanese, Egyptians, Maroqs, Pakistanis etc.....there's an ingrained violence in their culture....and you can call me an racist....Im just stating objective facts gathered thru years of living in Europe. The civil wars in literally ALL Islamic theocracies are also great evidence. Unfortunately we here in America have a similar ideology.....its called far right Christian Nationalism.

[@joey_youtube]

This was an amazing conversation. Really engaging.

[@3cosmo]

Destiny will be a great debater on this issue when he'll take into account the theological dimension of the conflict. It will also help realizing the Islamic morality axis is honor - shame instead of the good - evil christian paradigm.

[@nathanrain796]

was confused by the "honor - shame" instead of "honor vs shame" ngl. But still, well said.

[@skoomaenjoyer9582]

I’m not sure if he’d ever be all too interested in that component of the conflict. Probably the most productive foot forward comes without those assertions, even if they may map onto a person’s theologically-driven actions well. Some folk can get trapped in the suspicion that this type of drive is unchangeable and thus don’t bother further. Israel can’t afford to “not bother further,” and I’m pretty sure Destiny, on another Israeli podcast, echoed this thought; this has to be Israel’s number one concern right now… I’d imagine the theological dimension would make the situation seem more indomitable (and falsely, imo) and reduce change.

[@hadror13]

@@skoomaenjoyer9582 Then in that case it is a complete misunderstanding of the situation and conflict which is much driven by Arab/Muslim sentiments and customs as with Jewish history of persecution. Both are hugely important. The religious aspect is his huge blind spot imo

[@3cosmo]

@@nathanrain796 Honor and shame are the two opposite ends of the moral axis. So any moral dilemma in Islam would be how to avoid shame and how to bring honor. Judging from the outside on the good-evil axis would be a mistake and makes us Christians wonder way we don't "get" Muslims. Destiny is starting to get a feel of this but doesn't know precisely what it is. (when he sais that he feels there's something more to this conflict but he can't pinpoint it yet)

[@skoomaenjoyer9582]

@@hadror13 Hmm, maybe it actually is and I don't perceive that. I follow (not blindly, I hope) a lot of Destiny's secular problem solving, so it is a blind spot for me. Whether or not that blind spot is important for a solution is a separate discussion. My current intuition is that despite the appearance of strict religious adherence and religious claims over the land, a really well-written treaty with the right Palestinian leadership could relax a majority of the violence - and provide a safer platform for Palestinians who don't want Hamas leadership to step up. I'm not aware if that's a strategy Israel is truly considering at the moment under Netanyahu. The details of the treaty are also another LARGE discussion. Hell, maybe I'm absolutely incorrect and there's NO way to make such an agreement without signing the death warrant of the Jewish nation... something like a full right of return wherein no neighboring countries housing Palestinian refugees are responsible for helping at all. That's a very scary world to accept, because accepting that this CANNOT change would be signing the death warrant of many Palestinians who are also not given clear and safe options to vote away from extremist leadership. It would also sign Israel on to eternal warfare. This critique is obvious and overstated, but of course, it feels like Israel is kicking the can down the road, hoping that Palestinian leadership will continue to make errors such that ruling with an iron fist becomes wholly acceptable. The effort should be on changing those minds and giving them a safe platform to do so.

[@Head0.25s]

הבאתם את סטיבן לפודקאסט, מרשים ביותר!

[@roymarshall_]

Look at those sexy moon runes

[@lforlight]

24:02 Arabs, not Palestinians. Palestinians, almost by definition are Arabs in (not necessarily "from") the area who refuse Israel. The Arab Palestinian identity was formed about 20 years after the establishment of the state of Israel, and Israeli Arabs were not included in it.

[@hadror13]

Yes but most Israeli Arabs self identify as "Palestinian"

[@johnadams9193]

Hey this isn't Destiny 2 experience video.

[@BigupSlime]

“The streamer, not the game” 😂

[@eden5260]

Israeli here Both sides were ignorant about the political system and comparing to the usa is a mistake Comparing to some countries in Europe or the uk and how broken the system feels there os better . Nothing is perfect but Destiny was absolutely right Tiny parties have way way too much power in Israel The take by the other two guys is quite ludicrous.

[@elirantuil5003]

Nope. Tiny parties don't exist in Israel. If you let them exist, you will have more place for nuanced opinions in Israeli politics. Ben Gvir without Smotritch has max 3 seats and he's a lot more extreme, small right wing parties would unshackle the right from Likud and the center from Gantz. Big parties in Israel will just lead to even less representation.

[@kingdodgearcane]

The UK needs a push for more smaller parties because we're sick of fptp voting system. Steven is too america centric on this issue.

[@elirantuil5003]

@@kingdodgearcane to be fair to him, he's one of the most non American centric Americans you'll ever find.

[@eden5260]

@@elirantuil5003 clueless You're like people who ask for something when they get it and it doesn't change anything and isn't the result they expected they keep saying No it's not enough we need more ahah Insert any agenda you yourself oppose Socialism, healthcare, gu control etc etc

[@krombopulos_michael]

If you eliminate smaller parties then they just incorporate into the bigger party and it's the same thing.

[@abdc2990]

Here right as it drops - excited to watch. (Also can't wait for Destiny to be back in the USA not gonna lie.)

[@psudoplays254]

Uh oh... has anyone been feeding chat since Steve left?

[@abdc2990]

@@psudoplays254 Jessiah from Pondering Politics and maybe Cosmic Skeptic

[@NightmareJessie]

@@psudoplays254chats been watching movies the whole time

[@thomaswalmsley8959]

​@psudoplays254 nah someone forgot to, I just checked the basement, nothing alive down there, just skeletons at this point.

[@SpikeSystem]

We've been watching movies in chat the whole time lol. It's organized, there is a conductor and they host streams of movies "legally" that a lot (but not all) of DGG chat watches along with.​@@psudoplays254

[@Thenoobestgirl]

22:30 it's called wanting 100% of the land and no Jews allowed. It's not that deep. They literally say it out loud.

[@TheSpiritof76]

Wish I could go to the fan meetup last week I love you Destiny sama

[@Macheako]

Cult bruh

[@DavidJones-ot8qu]

@@Macheako Cult cuz people like him? He’s a celebrity, people like to meet celebrities because they idolize them. If this is a cult, you’d say every celebrity with fans is a cult, right?

[@greenbananas12378]

@@DavidJones-ot8qucelebrity…..

[@ronniekregar3482]

​@@DavidJones-ot8quYeah.... Pretty much

[@DavidJones-ot8qu]

@@ronniekregar3482 Okay then it’s literally a useless word. Sick

[@timkai]

This was excellent communication, and a lot of things could be taken from both sides of this conversation.

[@brynawaldman5790]

Fascinating insights from Destiny about how a multiple part parliamentary system can be limited. We Americans sure know how a two party system can be limited!

[@dr.amsterdam6862]

The event in the 73 war that helped arriving to peace was not the Arab pride that was repaired, the opposite. What made them agree for "peace", which in reality is very far from peace, as it's more like a long ceasefire or truce, is the fact that we conquered a very large territory, and the two things that matter to them is pride and territory... life is not at the top of their list... in because we are go⅘is important for them, as they were quoted saying "We love death more than you llk e life, so we will win". The last time I've heard this being said is when an IDF intelligence officer is trying to convince a Gazan to evacuate himself and his family. His answer was something like- we don't go anywhere, bomb us... when the officer told him to move so bis children won't get hurt, his reply was cwe love death more than you love life"

[@Hail_Sagan]

Great podcast! And they polished Steven up nicely, the dude looks good. Also great to see Destiny emerge in the public eye as a sensible truth seeking person rather than being pigeon holed into any particular ideology.

[@Limuru1]

You two have such wonderful energy! I loved this interview. Thanks for having Destiny on

[@kinggg6924]

I don't know why but Destiny's been looking good lately. W fit. W beard and hairstyle.

[@CordaroBlu]

Jewluminatti can't have their spokesman looking dusty in their own land.

[@icooper-tft]

The collared overshirt always looks decent. Much better than just a ratty t-shirt that he'd usually wear.

[@Exypno]

the fashion arc has served him well

[@carnivorewitch]

compared to his blue hair era, anything is better than

[@angelmartin7310]

Yeah I noticed. Adhd meds actually seem to make you more attractive while on them, something about fluid shedding and pupil size.

[@FDB-]

Advocating for political monopoly or duopoly over competition / compromise between similar parties is kinda hard to understand. We need more of that in the US

[@endlessnameless6628]

Destiny does seem to be a bit oblivious to the retrograde nature of Arab culture and the concrete effect this has on the situation

[@Mogorman87]

Typical bigot

[@Derploop]

By this you mean the rise of religious extremism and increasingly restrictive religious nationalism?

[@endlessnameless6628]

@@Derploop Its a simpler equation than that, backwards people equals backwards societies. Lack of respect for democracy, liberalism and secular institutions coupled with the intrinsic primitivism of Islam and its fundamental incompatibility to a modern secular world.

[@endlessnameless6628]

@@Derploop Arab culture may be best summed up in their attitude of “We are only doing what our forefathers did”

[@Derploop]

@@endlessnameless6628 but if you look at what their forefathers did, they're becoming more 'backwards' as some might describe it, not less. The middle east was once a centre of enlightenment, perhaps the centre of enlightenment. I assumed that slide into religious extremism in response to modern issues was what you meant.

[@VivisPixels]

I had been SA by a West Bank man who came in with a work permit (could have been a lot worst) and I know exactly what you're talking about at 11:40. People are naive thinking these are not totally savaged people when it comes to treating Israelis and women in particular. Destiny would think differently if he saw an encounter like that

[@lydiawilder5996]

I have been SA too but it didn't make me start hating the ethnicity of the person who did it to me.

[@howdareyou41]

18:28 how do you make an agreement with a group that doesn't think you deserve life?

[@nathanrain796]

The ability to sit down and have a conversation with someone like that already belies the fact that they don't actually believe that. Hitler didn't have negotiations with Jews, he just geocoded them. Anger will drive someone to make extreme statements in the moment, the idea is to engage with them long enough to get past that anger and find something you can both agree to.

[@zevspitz8925]

@@nathanrain796 PA officials (the supposed moderates) routinely dehumanize Jews using a richness of expression unique to Arabic. The PA has also created the educational materials used in Gaza for the past 30 years, and pays teacher salaries.

[@Israelijohngalt]

@@nathanrain796Hitler didn’t have negotiations with Jews because he had all the power. Jews had no state and no army, so why would he have negotiated with them? But today Jews do have a country and an army. That’s the only reason there were ever any negotiations with the Arabs at all. Except the PA negotiated exclusively for the long term goal of eliminating Israel, initially through establishing a Palestinian state and through diplomatic means, and then via military action when that becomes possible. Hamas agrees with them on the end goal, but not the means, and prefers armed struggle right from the beginning. That’s why it only negotiates for ceasefires and hostage releases. If you’re ignorant on the topic, consider getting educated before spouting total nonsense.

[@nathanrain796]

@@Israelijohngalt Doom saying gets everyone killed. Until Israel and Palestine can approach each other as humans nothing will ever get better. Its only a matter of time, and the more you treat this issue as intractable the longer it will take.

[@lydiawilder5996]

Because that's group think, which is bad on its face

[@SMBarbie]

This is a great, thoughtful conversation. Thank you!

[@metamorphic8797]

22:22 this is the biggest point I think destiny misses in the conflict and I don’t understand why he dismisses it

[@brharley0546]

No it's not. Although both sides subjectively rationalize thier acts with religion (settlers who want to realize some messianic vision and jihadists on the other hand) this is not the cause of the conflict so no solution won't come from this point of view. The core problem is there are two different nations fighting on how to divide the land, i.e a national question

[@metamorphic8797]

@@brharley0546 yeah and if you listen he’s not saying that’s the main causal issue, but “there must be some large underlying thing” that’s preventing any sort of rationality in their negotiations. Some large underlying thing that’s causing them to blow themselves up on buses.. It’s not the main cause to the problem but it’s 100000% a factor no matter how hard we try to say it’s not.

[@brharley0546]

@@metamorphic8797 I just don't think it's productive to reduce it to a matter of religion. The religion difference doesn't prevent hamas from allying with the Christian plfp for example. The atheism of Arafat didn't make him more peaceful towards israel.

[@bobobobo490]

probably one of the best destiny conversations

[@Alexandra-xu3si]

Enjoyed this 👌

[@zenrand688]

Destiny makes some good points but I think he’s naive about what drives Palestinians and what it will take for them to accept a deal. He’s right that it’s about honor for them, but he doesn’t get what it is they need to restore their honor (expulsion of Jews from Israel).

[@shawnsg]

Could you define Israel?

[@lydiawilder5996]

Its absurd to say that all Palestinians agree with this, you would just have to give them a reason, any reason at all to trust you

[@Brudda_Bear]

שיחה מרתקת ומחכימה! תודה דסטיני, תמיר ויובל ❤

[@alexstoyanoff7434]

Burning that midnight-oil! Nice convo, gents 👏

[@Wawi633]

Destiny just described his dream of how Arabs and Jews should live together. For example going to Gaza Beach and bringing in Arab workers from the "West Bank". Well, that is exactly what it was like on Oct 6th and that ended up leading to Oct 7. Seems he spent too much time with the Lefties at Kaplan.

[@nathanrain796]

As hard as it might be to hear, a bad outcome isn't reason enough to give up. Peace is worth fighting for, and its going to take brave people on both sides to make that happen.

[@Moranini]

There aren't any "brave Palestinians" who want peace

[@zevspitz8925]

@@nathanrain796 But we need to understand that for Palestinians, Jewish sovereignty is a violation of Arab honor. Until that paradigm changes, peace is nothing more than an elusive fantasy.

[@Israelijohngalt]

@@nathanrain796it costs you nothing to say this, but the people of Israel have sacrificed their blood for long enough to know what is and isn’t possible with their Arab neighbours. Spare us your shitty platitudes and moralizing.

[@HarrDarr]

@@Israelijohngalt keep being like this and eventually literally no one will give a shit about your historical plights, the tribulations of the jews is already becoming a fact of history and soon you will not have any holocaust survivors to parade in front of a camera anymore to invoke those sympathies

[@natalie_milo]

How convenient it is to criticize from the side, as a white person living in the West, and not as one who is an Israeli like us who has to live next to barbarians, as if the barbarians in Judea and Samaria are not the same barbarians we saw leaving Gaza on October 7th.

[@lydiawilder5996]

You will never have peace if you keep calling your neighbors barbarians, and you will never have peace if you keep treating them as if they are.

[@Alexlinnk]

Thank you for the interview

[@rachelmor5621]

The messianic Oslo bunch generated such absurd phrases like the ‘ peace victims’ or ‘ you make peace with enemies’ forgetting a small significant word- ex! You make peace with ex enemies! Wearing a suit does not always mean leaving behind your murderous intentions. I suggest the interviewee listen to some of Abas speeches when not in a suit. And the other side of you make peace with enemies is that you declare war on your friends. Rabin used to call the far right who rightfully objected to bringing the terrorists from Tunis and leaving our security in the hands of murderers - the peace enemies עולם הפוך ראיתי

[@lydiawilder5996]

For there to be peace there needs to be a reason for Palestinians to trust you

[@rachelmor5621]

@@lydiawilder5996 seriously? Although we live in a post modern era in which there is no truth only narratives and facts don’t mean much I suggest you learn some history and get some facts about the Israeli Arab conflict and read a little bit about radical Islam and their ideology before you come up with such ridiculous meaningless statements . Ignorance is wrong

[@lydiawilder5996]

@@rachelmor5621 My goal is peace. I am no fan of Islam.

[@rachelmor5621]

@@lydiawilder5996 just be a fan of facts and truth that’s enough your childish slogans don’t mean much chasing ” peace” now and no matter what the cost is has only led to more wars and more bloodshed Real peace is not accompanied by buses blowing up in the air and people being slaughtered at shopping centers

[@adamnotkardas7765]

This was great, thanks for having tiny on

[@yeetenman]

Nice convo!

[@thiking1]

Great interview

[@Bullet-yk5pw]

Unlisted? Feels like something forbidden now lol

[@eilatharel287]

He mentioned talking to people who travelled and shopped in Gaza twenty years ago. What happened since, that kept Israelies away from Gaza??? If it is for the Israelies, they would love to shop in Gaza, but they need their had connected to the rest of their body

[@nathanrain796]

The point wasn't that people should just travel spontaneously to Gaza but rather that exposure to one another breeds understanding and community which fosters future good will and collaboration. The more you try to isolate someone because you're afraid of them the less they will view you as human and vise versa. It's not to say the fear is unwarranted but rather that what we need now more than ever are the brave people who are willing to make the connections that change the future.

[@fuglaa4766]

if you didn’t understand the point he was making you are part of the problem

[@lydiawilder5996]

You can't just forever act like Palestinians are barbarians, your worldview needs to evolve beyond tribalism.

[@many6747]

His job is not to simplify, but to show the value in understanding its complexity.

[@reddillon8425]

if the goal is persuading uninformed voters to vote well, then his job is absolutely to simplify. An uninformed voter is an uninformed voter either because of pure laziness or pure lack of time, showing the value of understanding a topic's complexity will never turn an uninformed voter into an informed voter, the cause for them being uninformed is never "They didn't realize the value in being informed"

[@many6747]

@@reddillon8425 if they understood the value of knowing the complexity of these situations, they wouldn’t get their information from headlines, memes, and thumbnails. Because these things do not delve into the complexity, but are currently the most popular ways people “inform themselves”. Destiny highlights the value in taking the extra steps to actually know what you’re talking about before weighing in.

[@many6747]

@@reddillon8425 simplifying the information, is what those thumbnails, headlines, memes, and other creators, fail to do. It’s much easier to implement bias when simplifying. Destiny prefers to eliminate bias by eliminating the need to simply. It’s why he stumps people in debates, because his opponent is trying to simply the situations enough to where their argument is valid, while Destiny takes a step back points out the complexities that are all too often left out. The average person’s interpretation, of the Isreal Palestine conflict is America helps Zionists genocide innocent Palestinian babies with bombs. I’m sure you understand why this is a gross simplification and despite it being a genuine representation of what many believe.

[@Brudda_Bear]

Fascinating conversation, thanks Destiny ❤

[@mithranruwodoalvisbeseitri9811]

Safe travels, was a fun watch

[@BarrySRNA]

Where do you get the figurines?

[@fifab82]

I think this is a problem I can’t solve in the hypothetical, even thinking really really hard about it. I respect Steven for going to the region and trying to figure this out to get a good handle on it, it seems to me that he has either done a good job of it or has at least acted it in good faith. The awkward thing he is coming to is that the violent forces in Palestine are more about the values of honor and piety rather than peace and prosperity right now. Tragically, that might mean that the thing they (Hamas forces and supporters within and beyond Gaza) respect most, and respond to best, is an out and out victory by Israel. This could provide more security to Israel in the medium term. The problem seems to be the world is asking Israel to have faith in their fellow man and see a desire for peace that Hamas seems to not express at all, unless I’m missing something. If polls are to be believed, at least half of Gazans are in support of Hamas. If Israel kills lots of people, do Hamas see this as a win for their cause? It certainly comes across that way. If Israel backs off and offers them essentially a reward for the October 7th attacks in the shape of a good fair deal for Gaza- will they respect that? Will they even accept it? It seems so wrong and idiotic to believe people being slaughtered the way Palestinians are being slaughtered now could want anything other than peace- but there’s not lots of evidence for this apart from their obvious grief and deep suffering. I don’t know the answer. If I was Israeli I would probably leave the region, maybe that’s wrong too, maybe that’s giving in. There are other nice places.

[@LiiRAE.]

But then it's up to Israel to either reach a peaceful solution to these conflicts OR forcibly remove all palestinians, the latter of which is something they will never do, so they will just keep encroaching the settlements into the WB, laying more claim to it inch by inch. Israel must realize it's stuck between a rock and a hard place in that they must make a tough decision, but palestinians must also be willing to accept it (which they historically haven't, and which is why destiny favors the Israeli side more because they've offered amazing deals in the past). I don't think destiny has ever said Hamas is an option for peace, he supports israels war to remove Hamas, but Israel MUST then be prepared to help rebuild and integrate gazans so that another Hamas doesn't prop up. Israelis must realize that they only have tough choices, Israel can't continue to kick the can down the road for the future to handle it because things will only get worse and more desperate, that's why he stresses that a solution must come sooner rather than later.

[@thanatosdriver1938]

If Palestinians only wanted peace, they’d agree to a peace deal that would say Israel can put them in jail at any time for any reason. Clearly, there are more factors that SHOULD be considered than just peace

[@fifab82]

Fair comment, I do get that there is always more to it, we can all “win” peace if we just roll over and submit to the situation. If I was Palestinian I would want my homeland back too, but not at any human cost. It’s just not always clear whether Hamas and their supporters want peace at all. I think some of Israel’s actions have been horrific, their leaders come off as arrogant and stubborn and yes sometimes blood thirsty. Hamas seem boarder line satanic though. If Israel really wants a genocide, and the pro Palestinians of the world believe that, why do they keep protesting Israel? Or governments that support Israel? Why not demand that someone, their own governments, go help the Palestinians evacuate and seek asylum. There are so many children, why isn’t their a massive rescue mission underway to get them out? Maybe I’m being very naive here,maybe this is happening already and we are just not hearing much - but Israel is winning the war. If they are winning the war then people either need to rescue the Palestinians or fight on the Palestinian side. No one is doing that. They seem to just encourage the Palestinians with no realistic plan to really help. Is anyone really on their side? If so what are they actually doing to help?

[@thanatosdriver1938]

@@fifab82 I think the Palestinians have made it somewhat clear that, for them, peace is a low priority and barely a value. If someone believes that a Genocide will happen, protest is extremely advised, and it’s gotten the world to pay very close attention to the situation. Personally, I believe the protests and the attention has driven the civilian to enemy ‘combatant’ ratio way down. If a single other country becomes sympathetic to taking 100% of the Palestinians on or even 20% of them, many people believe it gives Israel much more moral licence to take land, which is evidently something that Israel is extremely willing to do. The Palestinians have made it clear by both words and actions that many are willing to fight and die for their country or their idea of a country that should exist. Further more, on the issue of the safety of family and children, Israel has done plenty of the heavy lifting trying to get most of what they deem to be innocents out of harm’s way, minimizing the need for a rescue operation in the first place. As I type this, I see more and more of a catch 22 for Israel. Act ethically and push the world into not offering help. Act unethically, and push the world into hating you. All this in a government with plenty of coalition building. As it stands, few governments are actually unhappy with the idea of Israel winning the war, but opinions on minimizing the fallout of the end of the war will be where many nations will jump in and check to see what will be helped. I think most nations correctly agree that Israel doesn’t want a genocide, but have enough experience with briefings about African countries and their volatility and know to tread lightly. Combine that with electoral concerns and Politicians will often put themselves as performativly pro Palestine by being light objectors to Israel.

[@BRLambert4]

​@@thanatosdriver1938can you tell me in what way Israel attempted to get women and children out of harms way? Where they offered asylum? A safe harbor or refuge? I don't understand how ANYONE supports the bombing of facilities that house majority women and children and bc Isreal claims a few terrorists also inside, then the ends justify the means. There is no other way AT ALl to apprehend a violent criminal other them to kill everyone else? A person can ONLY bc used as a human shield if the opposition is willing to kill innocent people on their path to "Justice

[@minch333]

bloody good conversation!

[@emanuelzbeda1420]

Question for Destiny: if the Arabs’ sense of honor needs to be appeased for peace, where does it end? Doesn’t the mere existence of a dhimmi state that has constantly defeated the Arabs pose an insurmountable afront to their sense of honor? Sure, Egypt could sue for peace but their threshold for success was just to prove that the Jewish state was not invulnerable. This is something completely different.

[@nathanrain796]

The "sense of honor" thing doesn't have to be the most extreme version of what Arabs might want. It just means that they need something that they can go back to their people and other Arabs and be proud of, something to say "look what we accomplished" to them. Peace to Arabs isn't enough to be proud of. That's what he's trying to say.

[@emanuelzbeda1420]

@@nathanrain796 then what is it that they need to accomplish to fulfill that need? From my perspective the Arabs are telling us what they want, constantly. And we're westsplaining away the fact that the only thing they're committed to is end of the Jewish state.

[@emanuelzbeda1420]

@@nathanrain796 and what is that thing? I’m getting rather frustrated with the westsplaining. The Arabs have made it clear that they want one thing, the end of the Jewish state. Why pretend like they want anything else?

[@WaxPaper]

I bet there are a lot of people out there who would make that deal in a second, if it meant getting their family back. We better hope it's not as simple as honor, or the people in charge for the past 50 years will have a lot of explaining to do. Especially since honor costs so little to give.

[@nathanrain796]

@@WaxPaper if what destiny is positing is to be believed then honor is actually the most expensive thing to give up. You have to change your view point to that of someone what values honor above everything else, even your own family or your own safety.

[@davidjoe9639]

I am a Christian and I support Armenia.

[@OrionBlaze]

i can feel the aura oozing through my screen

[@JRB1231000]

I hope he keeps this new look. And his slower way of talking is much better

[@מורןויזל-ב5ק]

destiny is absolutely right about the small parties and limit the seats for, this is why we had 4 election in 4 years and those 2 defeding and not understanding why its bad its so crazy the the guy on the right says no we need more of them !! so crazy

[@dwil0311]

It's not surprising. It's the same in America. When the government you want is in power, the system is working perfectly.

[@orikolp9379]

Actually its much simpler than that. If the purpose of democracy is to let as many citizens as possible (ideally all of them) participate in the decision making process, then you need to have as many parties as possible. Is it hard to work like that? Definitely. Is it more fair? I believe so. Besides, I didn't hear about it being a downside when the "change" government was elected, while being headed by a party who go only 5% of the votes. As a side note, I myself think that the American method is better in terms of separation of powers. I'd take it any day over our method - because of that alone.

[@zakygerman9897]

Governments were more stable before Netanyahu increased אחוז החסימה. It needs to go away completely.

[@krombopulos_michael]

Mote regularly elections than the US isn't because of small parties, it's because it's a parliamentary system where elections get called early if the parliament is dissolved. If the US Congress could do the same thing, you can be sure they would, because they don't cooperate or get along any better.

[@NoRequest]

I appreciate this convo.

[@ShpanMan]

Great talk!

[@tulaloo6526]

Thank you for the good conversation.

[@Proud_zionist3]

אני מעריכה שהוא הגיע לראות בעצמו מה קורה פה אבל הבחור הזה הוא אחד הנאיביים...

[@lydiawilder5996]

Do you not think instead that you are particularly a victim of propaganda, and that your zealotry clouds your vision?

[@larry7960]

37:34 Destiny’s right. The history and how Israel and Palestine got to today is not complicated at all. Very straight forward. But what is extremely complicated is a solution that both sides can agree on and one that doesn’t involve massive casualties.

[@FleivaSleiva]

Steven Bonnelli

[@ARKf1re]

*Bonnerelli*

[@devkal]

I agree about the threshold! It needs to be higher

[@lindahirschel4474]

You don’t get Islam, Destiny

[@uncoiledfish2561]

Does he need to?

[@Aa88900]

If he’s going to be giving his takes to his audience with the veneer of nuance and understanding, then yes.

[@Derploop]

Do you, Linda Hirschel?

[@uncoiledfish2561]

@@Aa88900 To debunk flat Earthers, do you really need to dive right into what it is they all believe…. I don’t know if you do.

[@lindahirschel4474]

@@Derploop no. But I don’t debate people on KZbin.

[@auspiss]

13:37 - 14:45 it's funny to me because as destiny indicates in the end, that sentiment goes both ways. so yes, as an israeli, it makes sense to think this way, but the palestinian does too, while experiencing much worse conditions

[@yakinthebox]

בחיים לא הייתי מצפה לקולאב כזה, צפיתי בו לפני 6 שנים

[@william4996]

I'm so confused by the idea that asking someone where they're from is bad. I can see how it can be done to make it bad but it's such a hilarious turn of events that attempting to learn about another person is offensive.

[@nathanrain796]

In America when you ask that question its almost like you're saying "you don't belong here", which is why Destiny explains that it feels racist. We Americans are taught at an early age to "be color blind" and "be mindful of what someone else might find offensive". Which just leads to hyper sensitivity because people aren't used to being asked that kind of question and are often told that questions like that are inherently racist.

[@william4996]

@@nathanrain796 I can understand that and that was my assumption. It's just dumb. I've learned so much about the world and other people from talking to them. I work with so many immigrants and we will sometimes just sit and talk about Canada and their respective home country.

[@nathanrain796]

@@william4996 Big true, I try to do the same any chance I can get. Talking with black people about black issues as a white guy is a hilarious back and forth once you get past them being uncomfortable.

[@razzle_dazzle]

@@william4996 It's not so much that you shouldn't talk about people's backgrounds or where they're from. It's just that you shouldn't assume non-white people are from elsewhere. But this obviously doesn't apply in Israel where there doesn't seem to be the same white/non-white distinction (because the major distinction is more like Jew/non-Jew instead).

[@draddadandawg3363]

​@william4996 america is big. Another state for us is like another country for you. Unless someone has a distinct accent, asking "where are you from" indicates you think theyre not from america. Its the same insuation as if you said it in any other country, but racial history in the US weighs that implication with "othering" instead of curiosity

[@shohjahonahadov122]

How can we find that guy sitting next to you bro? Does he have KZbin channel?

[@alhamashmaut]

Not yet, he's 18

[@shohjahonahadov122]

@@alhamashmaut so people at 18 are not allowed to have KZbin or Instagram?

[@AyubuKK]

This is great

[@Driftwood-Cove]

Great conversation

[@bangtan8565]

14:47 Yes sure.. you just forgot to mention that Palestinians from the West Bank aren't citizens of Israel. Why does he continue to confuse Palestinian Arabs with Israeli Arabs?

[@nathanrain796]

But because Israel has control over the West Bank and Gaza Strip they are "effectively" second class citizens even though they are not "technically" citizens of Israel. What matters here is the perspective, not the technicality.

[@bangtan8565]

​@@nathanrain796 But that changes everything.

[@nathanrain796]

@@bangtan8565 that kind of thinking leads to an inability to understand the other side.

[@bangtan8565]

@@nathanrain796 so is with the israeli side...

[@KW-ts6kf]

we stand with you brah 💪💪

[@Bluemoon98-2]

💯 correct about the small parties … they have way to much power while they should not . I hear people in America pushing out the two party system .

[@Axel227]

Small parties stop the bigger parties from making massive changes which is a good thing. Democracy should be slow and full of compromises.

[@Bluemoon98-2]

@@Axel227 agree 💯 ..but it does give small parties ie not majority more power then they should have . Because they can easily break a government by leaving . We see that now in USA in a way , within the democrat party there is a split and for some reason minority of that party power . We see that we the hamas and co squad. You said the magic word- compromise

[@lydiawilder5996]

@@Axel227 The reason that ideology is not popular with younger people is that it only works if you can imagine a better future. No young people can imagine a better future when everyone knows but is too scared to talk about the fact that the world can end if we don't take massive political action on climate.

[@lydiawilder5996]

@@Bluemoon98-2 Wanting peace without disgrace does not make someone Hamas

[@Bluemoon98-2]

@@lydiawilder5996 Not sure I understand what is wanting peace without disgrace - care to give example ? Any person that want peace cannot be the hamas by definition. Hamas and co do not want peace . All the people that call for ceasefire do not want peace . They just want Israel to stop . That’s not peace .

[@guitarsandbongos]

I need to know about the bobbleheads. I need at least Sharon, Rabin, Golda, Begin, Hertzl, Ben Gurion and hopefully most importantly there's an Eban somewhere there. And more.

[@jaygio]

Anyone that knows politics knows that (1) Destiny reads Wikipedia and doesn't know politics and gets owned in every interview, and (2) that YisraeI pays him, and (3) that J l D F is hurting bad

[@lydiawilder5996]

Wikipedia is fine as a source

[@Colonel-Cornelius-CornJulio]

Gonna follow Destiny now. Wish he would come more to Israel :D

[@jonathand3842]

-Ok I understand destiny position now and I agree mostly we need Arabs to be more integrated with the Jews and help them etc., making territory concessions especially the west bank. -BUT there's STILL a security issue, can Israelis really risk their lives? -You could argue that there already are 2M peaceful Arabs living in Israel currently and the risk is a myth. -but are they the same as Palestinians I don't think so, those are already integrated in the most liberal middle eastern country. - I even believe that many Arabs IN Israel are already kind of extreme in their political views which does feed the extremists which is already a huge threat.

[@alejammi]

Let's face it the security issues dosent get better with more segregation. You probably cant be fully safe for a while if you go towards peace. Either road you choose it won't be safe so why not go towards peace?

[@jonathand3842]

​@@alejammi the moment we go open borders the terrorist attacks will start again so THEY have to do the first step toward peace meaning taking measures to deradicalize their own population, accepting every single territory deals, creating a democratic election system.

[@jonathand3842]

@@alejammi I also disagree, it's way more safe now than it was before

[@LiiRAE.]

Like you mentioned, destiny made a point that they have already integrated 20% of the arab population to be fairly pro Israeli compared to other palestinian groups in WB or Gaza, the fact that these people are so vastly different from those palestinians who live in really bad conditions says a lot of the possibilities in the future. You're right that they are integrated, but why do you think these palestinians could be integrated and others aren't? Solve that answer and you can hopefully solve the palestinian integration. The neighboring countries as well that have had decades of conflicts with Israel before signing peace are also a good indicator that it isn't as bleak as some people might paint it.

[@LiiRAE.]

@@alejammi Exactly, the current situation is not long term viable for either Israel or Palestinians. But expanding settlements will only make it worse for Israelis whether it be more terror attacks or a bigger land swap expectation if a peace is made, which I assume settlers won't be happy about.

[@dyawr]

This was a *very* interesting conversation. 🤔