Destroying the Divine Feminine, with Dave Butler

[@carlajowebb2537]

I loved this discussion! In my heart I also hear when the angel says "It is the Love of God" the tree of life is literally the love that our Holy Parents share that creates all life. Be blessed.

[@reagan9213]

I hope you know how many of us are looking for this and your diligence and prayers are helping our diligence and prayers

[@LisaBurnham-yl2rl]

So beautiful, amazing, humbling…mind-blowing! There is so much light here even though not easy to hear. Still processing and it has given me much to ponder and study further. The hole in my soul from seeming to “live in a motherless house”(thank you Carol Lynn Pearson) is healing. To see that the Divine Feminine is alive and well in our scriptures and especially the Book of Mormon and that She is among those plain and precious truths that were removed from other scripture and that this removal is not the will of our loving Father…that Christ taught of Her, not just by his treatment of women but in the sermon on the mount! I have all the feels right now ❤. Meghan and Dave thank you for being courageous and being willing to share this essential topic. I am excited for the book!

[@solomon2161]

I'm really enjoying hearing more of Dave's backstory, after becoming a huge fan of his work over the past few months. Thanks for this episode!

[@the5throse]

Anytime I get the opportunity to listen to Dave Butler I jump on it! Thank you for this insightful podcast.

[@karlawallentine6596]

Great interview Meghan, you and David are my kind of deep thinkers!! Enjoyed this one a lot!❤️

[@duncansh81]

Very powerful stuff here. Thank you for discussing these things! I am looking forward to your book, Dave!

[@MichaelSaline]

I’m also a weirdo!!!! David I’m in chapter 3 of “in the language of Adam” it is so phenomenal!! And already has opened my eyes even more in the scriptures!!! Thank you!!

[@samanthastacey735]

I'm just about to read that.

[@Justme77793]

Perfect timing with this video as I was in the temple this morning reading Jacob 5 and started picking up on the temple imagery in there. I'm barely scratching the surface with all of this but it's nice to know I'm not too crazy for thinking this. Thank you for sharing your insights!

[@Missythompson103]

SO great! I would love for Dave to just go through each chapter of Isaiah and give his thoughts!! Great insights ❤

[@songsoflight]

2:30 Dave's journey studying ancient texts and languages 9:38 The temple in the Book of Mormon 10:38 1 Nephi 1 and throne theophany 12:06 Encountering Margaret Barker's work on Heavenly Ascent 16:04 Dave's overall thesis on the Book of Mormon prophets and temple worship 22:22 The divine feminine in the Book of Mormon 22:22 The tree of life vision in 1 Nephi 26:05 Recurring themes of the tree of life, the woman, and the Son 30:11 Old Testament reforms and the removal of the divine feminine 30:11 King Josiah's reforms and removal of Asherah worship 35:33 Jesus Christ represented by the serpent on a pole (Nehushtan) 38:11 Contrasting the righteous reforms of Melchizedek vs violent reforms of later kings 41:45 Isaiah's resistance to the corrupted Jerusalem temple 41:45 Isaiah's calling and the divine council 48:57 The assault on the divine feminine in the temple 56:24 Switching the waters of life from sweet to bitter by removing the tree 59:13 Types and symbols in scripture 1:00:56 Christ and Heavenly Mother in the opposition of the two serpents 1:02:19 Possibility of a corrupted covenant regarding the divine feminine 1:05:07 The mistreatment of women and its condemnation in scripture 1:13:42 Unjust treatment of women condemned in Jacob 2 1:18:29 Theological reflections on the Eternal Mother and Son 1:18:29 The intertwined nature of the divine feminine and masculine 1:22:26 A potential hidden 8th Beatitude referring to the Queen of Heaven 1:27:37 Interpreting the seven women prophecy in Isaiah 4 v1-2

[@adinotheeznite3593]

Thank you for this. 😊

[@TheBackyardProfessor]

Dave's take on Isaiah was exquisite. Really enjoyed this conversation!

[@MsLT62]

Oh my goodness! Thank you! This was Amazing!!!! More please!!!

[@DoctrineofChrist248]

Brother Dave, I love your life story my man. And I know what you mean regarding the apocalyptic literature - I knew there was something there, I could feel the Holy Spirit, but until recently had no tools for understanding. Praise YHWH for individuals like you, who bring the "learning of the Jews" to light.

[@DJButlerRockBand]

Thanks, my friend.

[@pagecluff7682]

This was so good. Thank you thank you.

[@JoneThePwn]

For all who read this: please read this comment with the respect, love, and sincerity with which it is intended. 1:03:07 When you made this statement: "But it strikes me as a very real thing that there is or has been or will be a corruption of covenant... when it comes to an understanding of the divine mother. What say you? And your membership might be on the line." I thought Dave answered your queston extremely tactfully even though it seemed (to me) as a potential bait to say something that would potentially go against the brethren. Here's part of Dave's response: 1:13:00 "I think the divine feminine presence is right there in the BoM... It's in your peripheral vision... It's always right there and I can't quite look at it, but I think that somehow we have to get there. And I think there is this warning that we've got to be real careful because people get this wrong so much. So the answer is not castration cults. And the answer is not sexual licentiousness. So what is the answer? That's the question." Correct me if I'm wrong Meghan, but the underlying assumption being made (seems to me) to be that the brethren (and by extension previous prophets back to Joseph Smith) could have somehow potentially corrupted the covenant between the Lord and the Saints by purposefully excluding knowledge of Heavenly Mother from the saints with mal intent. I want to propose that we need to be more humble when going out on theological limbs and should tread extremely lightly. (I think Dave showed us an excellent example of that in his answer) I would also hope that we would assume that the Lord's prophet knows at least as much as we do about the topic, most likely far more. Rather than viewing a potential withholding of information by the brethren with bad intention, let's assume information that is withheld is done with good intentions. (As part of the Lord's will) Bear with me here for a second. Assuming Dave's scriptural interpretations are correct, what happened the last time Heavenly Mother was openly worshipped? Some of the most disgusting, heretical, and unspeakable blasphemies were committed against her--and by extention against her husband our Father in Heaven. Jerusalem is destroyed as a result. Given what we know of God's pattern in revealing truth is it any wonder that he would withhold that information until he felt we were ready? Like the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon. Or the Pearl of Great Price. Or the endowment session. The restoration has always been a process. He gives us more light and knowledge as we prove ourselves through paying heed to his prophets and their words. We can't expect to gain more light and knowledge if we point fingers at our priesthood leaders or deign to go against the institution of the Lord's church or even to give the appearance of doing so. In the October 2021 general conference President Nelson said: "Ponder these three truths: The Restoration is a process, not an event, and will continue until the Lord comes again. The ultimate objective of the gathering of Israel is to bring the blessings of the temple to God’s faithful children. As we seek how to accomplish that objective more effectively, the Lord reveals more insights. The ongoing Restoration needs ongoing revelation." If we want to know more about Heavenly Mother, we need to align ourselves even closer with the brethren, not less. More light and knowledge will come with time, knocking, and seeking. This is the dispensation of the fullness of times. It is the only dispensation that will not end in apostasy. It is the dispensation that will facilitate the 2nd coming of the Savior. It's the stone cut without hands that Daniel saw that would fill the earth. With that said, we need to be careful not to be deceived. In the last days we're taught that even "the very elect if possible" will be deceived. Let's make sure we don't end up like this: Jacob 4:14 "But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand." I'm confident that these mysteries have been and will be revealed to many in due time. I suspect the Lord will require us to keep some of the answers to ourselves so as not to bring people who are not ready for such knowledge under condemnation or cause confusion. In that sense, I truly believe the brethren are doing the Lord's will and protecting the people from truths they are perhaps not yet ready to hear. But that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't seek them out in our own individual study. It just means we shouldn't overstep our bounds and let pride get the better of us, especially with what we teach at church. Sustaining our leaders will help us gain more light even if that means we can't give the answers to others. With some things, people just need to get their own oil for their own lamps and there can't be a short cut to learning the mysteries of the kingdom. In fact, those same mysteries can become serious stumbling blocks to people who aren't ready for them. Anyway, it was a great discussion. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents of warning in.

[@nataly140]

Very good comment! Thank you! ❤ We know and we don't know things for a reason.

[@kareestosich8523]

I'm a marriage and family therapist and have some interesting insights about relationships. It makes sense to me that the relationship between The Father, Mother and the Son are all symbols of The Tree of Life. And the love between and among the family as a system ....

[@benjamingregersen9777]

You all need to read Saint Catherine's diolog, it is Lehi's tree of life dream. There's three steps that lead to the tree of life in Saint Catherine's dialog. The tree is represented as the mother in her diolog. The man standing below the tree is God the Father beckoning his children to come partake of the mothers milk from the tree of life. There's also a dirty river in Saint Catherine's diolog. This is a must read.

[@staciedye5433]

This was wonderful!! Thank you!!!❤

[@JohnSmith-lm9gr]

1:03:22 i feel that in our day the devine feminine is present, it is the divine masculine that is being removed. Christ is being associated with all of the good feminine trates and none of the masculine. Many speak of "toxic masculinity" as though it is a repetitive phrase. Yes, we still acknowledge the Father, but we don't extend that to our men and see our men as divine beings. What is more, it seems some have stopped worshiping the father and instead focus on a "teddy bear Jesus". I caught a glimpse of Mother. Then I understood the divinity of my wife. Then I realized my own value and purpose. When we deny one, we loose all.

[@AliceNeff-eu9gi]

Come, follow him

[@trishalebaron6994]

I’ve listened to this twice and I need at least a couple more. Love your thoughts too Megan!

[@paigettie]

Wow, what an incredibly perspective. And the last 8 minutes??? 🤯 life changing perspective forever!!! Thank you SO MUCH both for sharing.

[@jackidesign]

Hallelujah Dave! Amazing interview. I love learning from Dave every podcast he's on and you Megan, asked great questions and brought into a sacred space important understanding ❤️

[@loridavis7086]

What came to mind near the end: “The ongoing restoration.” Continuing, increasing knowledge & light being restored where it was lost.

[@samanthastacey735]

Thanks, Dave. That was really helpful.

[@KeithSeely]

I completely agree with you both that we are under condemnation in the LDS church for not honoring the divine feminine in the temple or even in our conversation!! The same can be said for not denouncing polygamy as well. Keep doing these subjects because you are spot on!!

[@trevorwilkerson8769]

What about Jacob 2 : 30 "For if I will, saith the LORD of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." ? How do you know when the LORD sees fit to do otherwise? It seems to be that there are times that the LORD commands people to do & be different for His purposes & that may not seem to be the instructions that are given to others. I wouldn't judge to harshly unless you are god & know all the details.

[@JoneThePwn]

Meghan possibly hinted the church is under condemnation. Dave never did.

[@KeithSeely]

@@trevorwilkerson8769 You are misunderstanding this verse. Watch Megan's show with Michelle Stone she did awhile back and you will see this in a different light. Thanks

[@davidsprague6250]

I wouldn't recommend that one. I watched it all, and there was serious evil speaking of the Lord's anointed and denial of D&C 132 as revelation from the Lord. ​@user-zf9vb3np2p

[@gburt3892]

⁠@@KeithSeelythe Lord literally came down hard on the nephites regarding “one wife, concubines he shall have none” before saying, “For if I will…raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; OTHERWISE they shall hearken unto these things.” Maybe there is another interpretation of what this is supposed to mean, but it’s very clear that the Lord will “command” more children if there is a need. I only know of one way that this will work and that is through pregnant women. We could try and justify this through gender ratios at the time, trials, hardships, death…etc, but in the most basic form, the Lord can and will under his command, allow for more seed to be born into the covenant, OTHERWISE we are under strict command to have one wife and only one wife.

[@personalitymanager1580]

If you want to read a letter from our heavenly mother, go to Proverbs, chapter 2. I noticed that almost all references to wisdom was feminine so when I read chapter 2 I thought oh my goodness, this a letter from our Heavenly Mother. That's my take on it I don't know if I'm right or not but I suggest you read it.

[@CN-pe4gz]

I came to that conclusion as well. And it’s interesting to me that Wisdom is capitalized in the Word of Wisdom. I find it interesting that it’s the woman that gives nourishment to her babies just like the Word of Wisdom gives us a format for nourishment.

[@terrel_shumway]

41:00 Look what Alma says *immediately after* praising Melchizedek: "20 Now I need not rehearse the matter; what I have said may suffice. Behold, the scriptures are before you; **if ye will wrest them it shall be to your own destruction**." Even Alma-518 years after Lehi's exodus-smarts over Josiah's apostasy. Is that what this means???

[@gwynnwhite4500]

This is mind blowing. Thank you so much.

[@TrentSmith-m4h]

I could be wrong here… but this morning I read Isaiah 58:13-14 with different eyes. In this chapter, Isaiah is using fasting and sabbath day observance to describe the spirit of Zion, the aspiration of the Lord’s people becoming a Zion society. This is what we have to become if we want the knowledge and worship of our Heavenly Mother to be fully restored. Look at the last sentence in that chapter. Compare Genesis 21:33, Genesis 26:22-29, Genesis 28:10-22.

[@KB-sunnyday]

This guy is bad apple 🍎!! Loved it! 🤯

[@TrentSmith-m4h]

For what it’s worth, the “pulling as it were with a cart rope” the John refers to in Isaiah 5 is explicitly described in 2 Kings 23:6. Remember that Abraham set up a “grove” (now known to be an Asherah pole) at Beer-Sheba. (See what Josiah did to it in verse 8.)

[@emjm9383]

after the Jacob 5 discussion, i was half-waiting for someone to bring up Jacob 2's reference to chastity of women. they go hand in hand. i think we need to remember one account of Joseph Smith's first vision - he only at first saw the father, then the father touched his eyes and he could then see the son. we need our eyes opened by God to see the godhead. John 4:14 and 1 Nephi 11:25(d,e).

[@JaneHallstrom1]

The book, Dance of the Dissident Daughter by Sue Monk Kidd, illuminates this issue brilliantly.

[@packman579]

Talks are out! President Nelson referenced Malachi 4:5 in that the word "before" is in blue. This takes you to D&C 77:13 stating how I see it we are in the Seventh Seal

[@DrCarrieJardine]

Your question at 1:04 is my question… how will we see this? See the menorah being moved to the 2nd room from the 3rd in modern day?

[@considerthetruth]

Do you have any thoughts about Jeremiah 44 where those who prayed to the Queen of Heaven were destroyed for idolatry?

[@lddisciplespodcast]

Were you able to listen to the full episode? We do provide some relevant thoughts :)

[@considerthetruth]

yes I did. I must have somehow missed that part somehow. When you suggest that our covenants are corrupted I would direct you towards D&C 109. unfortunately I cannot continue on this journey with you and have to unsubscribe, I'll stick with the brethren.

[@lddisciplespodcast]

The comments made were not a commentary on the Church. Rather, they were meant to be supportive of the idea of restoration, and highlighting that there is more to be aligned and revealed. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. Mother, Who was Creator with Father, and Who had originally been recognized in the temple, has been desecrated and hidden. She will yet be restored to Her proper place. That said, we respect your unsubscribing. Thanks for your time with us!

[@considerthetruth]

@@lddisciplespodcast I hope you find what you're looking for. Please be careful. ❤

[@knelson3326]

@@considerthetruth Can I referee here a little bit? I watch Scott’s channel and I watch this channel. I think Meghan’s content is usually worthwhile, but I don’t watch it because I agree with everything. I’m comfortable watching material that I disagree with. Dave is an amazing scholar. I have both of his books and am almost through the second one…truly a feast. I appreciate people who reach deep but who don’t turn their findings into an agenda. To agenda-ize new knowledge is to claim a final conclusion. We should continue building line upon line. Scott, you should get the Kindle version of Dave’s first book for $6. It doesn’t end up like this video did. In my opinion, it does not contradict official church teachings in any way. I feel like the end of this video turned a great interview into a hit piece. I think Meghan dragged Dave into some subtle, unspoken assumptions that Dave may not espouse even though he may have nodded his head out of consideration to his host. In full clarity, the real question she should have asked Dave is, “Do you believe that polygamy was wrong and the modern saints are under condemnation for believing in the practice?” I’ve listened to Dave for 20+ hours and he has never insinuated anything even remotely close to agreeing with that question. Turning Isaiah 4 into an anti-polygamy reference is disingenuous. I don’t use it to support polygamy; Using it for the opposite purpose when it is clearly symbolic is also wrong. I do not believe the Lord will allow the wholesale deception of his church which we are promised will not end in apostasy like previous dispensations.

[@wendyfoster5579]

I have the same thought about counterfeit. Satan is good at that which makes people doubt the good because he has corrupted the beautiful thing. Great conversation, Dave has done good work and we love Margaret Barker.

[@andrewbfrost7021]

Sincere question, and I love Dave and Margaret and I’m partial to a whole lot of what they say, Why do you think that Joseph Smith didn’t make any changes to clarify the Hezekiah and Josiah stuff while doing the JST? The assumption after he was done with the JST was that “we believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.” If the Hezekiah and Josiah idea is right, that would make huge sections of the Bible suspect as it went through the deuteronomists’s hands. And Joseph’s JST doesn’t seem to do much about that.

[@ginaflute]

I love this-my thinking gets blocked when I think “what am I suppose to do with this knowledge?” I LOVE knowing about the Devine feminine but it doesn’t change anything in my daily life or worship? Thoughts on that?

[@lddisciplespodcast]

A great question to take to the Lord! For me personally, knowing that I have a Heavenly Mother who was in the story and taken out by men not God changes everything about my understanding of the character of God and opens up many avenues to explore what implications this has for a woman who is a member of Her divine priestesshood.

[@lesgraham7722]

Im a bit confused. Heavenly Mother is a key player in our creation. What is it that we need to do to honour her? My mother is honoured by how I live my life, as she is the one who brought me up.

[@bheer98]

I came here to listen to Dave Butler absolutely DESTROY the divine feminine with facts and logic and instead I got the opposite. 😂 All jokes aside, great interview!

[@lddisciplespodcast]

Thanks for forgiving our apparent bait and switch ;) glad you enjoyed it!

[@UVJ_Scott]

I think God has provided evidence for our Mother in Heaven but He has also very purposefully protected Her.

[@casadelswain434]

Huh, what about Deut 7:5, Jeremiah 44? There are some others I can’t remember right now. I think we can’t confuse Asher with Heavenly Mother or condemnation falls upon us.

[@casadelswain434]

Deuteronomy 16:21 even goes as to not plant a grove near an alter.

[@lddisciplespodcast]

Were you able to listen to the full episode? We discussed several relevant concepts, including the writers of the biblical narrative, and counterfeits. Suffice it to say that counterfeits only exist if there is something true to mimic. There are false goddesses who supplanted the true. Asherah means blessed, happy, etc. as in “Happy is the man who finds wisdom”. Ishtar would be an example of a counterfeit goddess. In this way, it wasn’t the mere worship of a goddess that condemned the people, but rather supplanting a false goddess for the true one. Personally, I’d struggle to worship a Heavenly Father who felt insecure about people worshipping His wife. Alternatively, it is consistent with the God I know to be very displeased with those who exchanged reverence of Her for that of a satanic goddess.

[@BazSupport]

The main claim is that the OT is a product of the winners (the dueters) while the BoM is the truth that remained from the losers (the visionaries). I’m still very much only listening at this point when it comes to some things. I do really like the concept of the BoM being a temple literature though

[@casadelswain434]

@@lddisciplespodcast I had no plans to respond back because I personally don’t care enough what you choose to justify your path, that’s on you. That changed when you said, personally, you’d “struggle to worship a Heavenly Father who felt insecure about people worshipping His wife.” Oh how it cracks me up how many of you sisters with this cause spew this line cockily, gaslighting to push your agenda. Heavenly Father is not insecure in His request that we not worship His helpmeet. He does not want her sacrificed on the feminist altar demanding equality in rights, as well as the right to worship and pray to her. The only insecurity is yours, maybe ponder that as this is a crossed line that is hard to come back from. God is not waiting for you & Dave to discover “this” and share it to all the world. If our Heavenly Father wanted this restoration of what Dave spoke of, He would have had Joseph Smith, or another prophet include Her in as He has restored truths as we’ve been ready to learn them. Obviously, we’re not ready. You are quick to try to separate Asherah from Ishtar, but they are one and the same. Ashtoreth, Asherah, Astarte, or Ishtar whatever proper noun you wish to substitute. Over time, they have all represented the same counterfeit goddess, just in different forms for the differing people. This really comes down to the belief that SOME scholars have in that Yahweh and Asherah were a consort pair in ancient Israel, as well as in ancient Judah. Some believe this while a lot do not. If Asherah is Yawweh’s consort queen, you’re ignoring the fact that according to ancient times, a royal consort would have had no constitutional power and their role was to support their spouse as they conducted his/her sovereign duties. And since y’all keep confusing the two, who is it? God: Heavenly Father , or Yahweh? Yahweh is Jehovah, Jesus Christ, the God of the OT as they weren’t allowed to deal with God then, they dealt with Christ. Jesus wouldn’t have had a wife at that time, as He’s our generation and had yet to gain a body as His mortal life hadn’t occurred yet. Almost every culture has associated these names with some cultic deity or some type of sexual deviancy. No wonder Heavenly Father wants us to focus on eternal doctrine, laws and truths, not these distractions and deviancies that further alienate our actions and our will from His. Are we doing the things He has commanded or are we choosing to bring back past counterfeit gods and goddesses because we can’t accept or change our will to live by His truths? Even if she is there in every aspect, as a Mother does tend to be, it is our wicked designs to look past the mark and we are disobedient to the covenants we made to God.

[@casadelswain434]

@@BazSupport Yes, the victor does write history, yet we have the promise from Heavenly Father that He reveals things through His prophets. There is no deep doctrine, just His doctrine, His eternal laws practiced deeply and then the Lord through His Spirit reveals through revelation the mysteries of God when we are ready- if we become ready. When we start to look for more we are rejecting the Lord’s plainness and time and time again it ends badly, and many souls are sacrificed in that pride cycle battle. We are being taught in the BoM to watch for priestcraft, false prophets for they will be the undoing of some of His elect people. The ignorance in not learning these teachings and refusing to understand them is why it starts in His house in these latter-days. We are already in the day Isaiah warned of, when children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. Too many are unrighteously removing the right to let Priesthood leaders lead in our homes and churches. Also, when I looked up the Deuteronomists, they had no problem worshipping Asherah, they had before, and that’s how they perverted Israel and went past the 1 God commandment. I’m still researching them, they did remove from the Bible things but what I read contradicts them removing her here as stated.

[@tfwaters]

The part talking about the 2 serpents…one representing Jesus Christ and the other as Satan being the opposition in all things. Leviticus 16 Day of Atonement: This reminded me about the 2 goats that the high priest determined which one was dedicated as the Lord’s and the other dedicated as Azazel (The fallen Angel). The first is pronounced pure the second pronounced as sin and is called the scape goat. The first is sacrificed and the second is cast-out. The second has a red thread wrapped around it’s neck, “though your sins be as Scarlett it shall be white as snow”. The goat goes upon the mountain and throws it’s self over the edge to it’s death. The high priest knows the sins are gone when the thread wrapped around the temple door turns white as wool.

[@soneedanap]

Do you think there is any connection at all between the sacred grove and Heavenly Mother?

[@lddisciplespodcast]

I believe so ❤️

[@stevenhunlow2741]

Most everyone else knows more about David Butler's subject than I, but I am stranded on a sandbar I do not know how to get past before being able to accept the ideas put forth by Bro Butler. Basically he contends that the divine feminine was thrown out of the temple by Josiah. That supposes that the Hebrews had previously had righteous worship of the divine feminine. And that is where I am stuck. I do not doubt that Adam had that knowledge. Enoch would have had it too, but we recall he was engulfed in wickedness except for his people who were lifted away from earth. But Noah knew and likely so did Melchizedek and therefore Abraham. But after 400 years in Egyptian bondage and the hundreds of years of idolatry there I cannot conceive that they had a pure worship. At the end of that dark period was there a full restoration by Moses? Clearly not! They rejected the higher ordinances. I am not aware of any evidence otherwise. So any worship that Josiah abolished was not likely to have been in the divine feminine ordinances restored by Moses. As a further conundrum, to Brother Butler's proposal, I believe the Restoration Joseph Smith began was more of a fullness than what Moses was able to bring to Israel in that generation. If that is true, and we have not had the divine feminine restored, then I have a hard time believing Moses people who made a golden calf while he was receiving revelation had more truth given to them than what Joseph was able to restore. I do believe that the restoration is ongoing and President Nelson has certainly begun helping us think differently about priesthood power and our valiant women, but there has to be more than what is found in post Moses and pre-Christ Israel Are some of my base assumptions wrong?

[@trevorwilkerson8769]

1:00:46 when tribes come together at a pow wow they come together from the east & go around clock wise & exit the same place they enter. I thought of that when you mentioned going clock wise. I also thought of the Totem Poles that the tribes use. They could easily be symbolic of tree woman.

[@kevinparkin3322]

Humans don't have a miniscule clue what happens in Heaven including 1) whether God moves via Quantum Enganglement 2) the ratio of men to women 3) how Heavenly Mother conceives and births Spirit Babies. Any discussion is pure quess-work. Meantime, humans cannot even explain gravity or electricity.

[@AbrahamicAstronomy]

Whoah. Good stuff. Crazy idea: what if the 7 tribes of the BoM are 7 maternal lines (as the Hebrews would trace it) but we never hear the names of Nephi's wife or really almost the name of ANY woman in the BoM. What if their names were too sacred to write down, like the name YHWH?

[@UVJ_Scott]

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Acts 5:30 The most poignant aspect is, the nails that pierced the Saviors hands, wrists and feet also pierced the tree.

[@TheBackyardProfessor]

Oh! Nice insight!!!

[@deidrabudd6525]

In Isaiah where 7 women will take hold of one man many attribute that scripture to polygamy. I feel like there is something more that we are not seeing. I don’t believe it’s about polygamy, but maybe I’m wrong. I would love to know Dave’s thoughts on that verse (or yours) especially why the cover of his second book is a picture of the menorah made up of seven women and a man. Maybe he knows or sees something I haven’t. Also Isaiah 3:6-7 seems to be quite similar to that verse.

[@lddisciplespodcast]

This is the episode for you! We discuss both of those scripture sets :)

[@deidrabudd6525]

Maybe I should’ve listened to the whole thing before asking 😃

[@eternalskywalker9440]

It isn't seven women. It is a Seven (complete) Woman who has authority to choose (take hold of) and anoint the king. Dave's book discusses providing food (shalem feast) and clothing (robe of righteousness) as a core part of Nephite temple liturgy in the second room. This is among the plain and precious things removed by the deuteronomists. Isaiah wrote in code so they would not corrupt his writings. Read /In the Language of Adam/ and these interviews: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHrFaqScj7Sdi9E kzbin.info/www/bejne/aILUZX-llKd8nLs

[@avoice423]

Some people consider 7 to mean many. You cant take the 7 women phrase out of the rest of it. For it says that they will eat of their own bread and wear their own apparel. This is referring to the jewish obligation to provide for a wife materially. They are willing to wave that obligation in order to have their reproach taken away. What is the reproach? The chapter heading states being unmarried and childless. It could also be referring to other things. Why is this important? Women are most fulfilled in having and raising children. Why is the previous chapter spend so much time on the materialism of the daughters of Zion? And even speaking of the men who are warriors and mighty men who are destroyed in war and battle. What do to many women do today? Chase after the top 10 percent of men, the mighty ones, instead of the good and righteous ones that are less " exciting" . So what do those top 10% of men of men do? They tend to use women and not respect them. These are those who destroy the chastity of women, which is abominable to God. The one man who honors the 7 women marries the women and thus takes away the reproach, and perhaps even the reproach of having chased after the mighty men and lost their chastity as a result, because the mighty were evil in their hearts and are destroyed. I dont think that it can be denied that this is happening in this day, and how many men are righteous in this day and age and able to elevate women and remove their reproach? There is so much in those 2 chapters of Isaiah, but i feel it is correct on the surface and simple clear meaning with underlying extra meaning.

[@UVJ_Scott]

After being shot by a mob, the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum Smith were placed in two separate wagons and covered with branches… intended or unintended symbolism?

[@UVJ_Scott]

7 is indeed important. 3+4=7 and 3 x 4. =12 which is why we have to have 12 tribes of Israel and 12 Apostles.

[@KristaMayne]

I felt lost on many concepts.

[@sarahswanger979]

I’m 44 and born and raised in Washington state. I was taught I’m not allowed to talk about Heavenly Mother or to Her or Them (Father’s multiple wives. 🤦‍♀️) What I’ve been taught by God this is purely ridiculous and wrong!!!! It is THROUGH our Heavenly Mother ( NOT MOTHERS ) we truly heal and know ourselves. Jesus Christ has bridged this knowing for me and led me step by step.

[@MrMelvinSchlock]

I assume this is the kind of stuff that is within the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. Or at least a hint of it. The stuff that will separate the men from the boys.

[@trevorwilkerson8769]

1:09:16 the typical grafting shape is interesting.

[@cabarete2003]

I wonder if this continual obsession over the "tree" is why Isaiah was killed by being sawed in two in a tree reportedly.

[@JohnSmith-lm9gr]

1:13:56 i know! 🙋‍♂️ ohh ohh, call on me! The root and the branch must stay in balance. Masculine and feminine. Garden and gardener. Do you see it?

[@kevinferrin5695]

Sister, I fear you are trending toward a desire to demonstrate that you are "more spiritual" or "understand spiritual things better." You seem to be anxious to elevate women when neither men nor women should be elevated. That's a path to getting the divine feminine wrong. Trying to use The Book of Mormon to condemn plural marriage is a road to apostasy. The Lord condemns plural marriage when He has not commanded it and condemns those who don't practice out when He has commanded for it to be practiced. It has a place that He understands perfectly. Note that the seven branches may symbolize seven wives and the seven human types we seem to see in the world. I'm not trying to state fact. I'm just suggesting possibilities, possibilities that should not be dismissed offhand.

[@timmcclannahan8309]

Much like what is Happening Today

[@cameronielsen]

Any who find this video interesting (including myself) should be careful here. Reread Elder Renlund’s talk from April 2022. “Very little has been revealed about Mother in Heaven, but what we do know is summarized in a gospel topic found in our Gospel Library application. Once you have read what is there, you will know everything that I know about the subject. I wish I knew more. You too may still have questions and want to find more answers. Seeking greater understanding is an important part of our spiritual development, but please be cautious. Reason cannot replace revelation. Speculation will not lead to greater spiritual knowledge, but it can lead us to deception or divert our focus from what has been revealed. For example, the Savior taught His disciples, “Always pray unto the Father in my name.” We follow this pattern and direct our worship to our Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ and do not pray to Heavenly Mother.”

[@cameronielsen]

I would add that much of what Dave says seems to be true. But he is careful to distinguish between study and speculation. But notice Elder Renlund mentions reason as a limitation that can also be a dead end.

[@spcold89]

The meaning of the 7 women taking on the name of one man is a prophecy of Jesus Christ being the Savior of the world. The 7 women are all the tribes of the earth. And their reproach is taken away because of the name of the one man. Meaning they are not cast out, but they become part of the family of God through Christ.

[@Lifeispainjesusisjoy]

So so good

[@rocksteadyras]

Try being a single mom. I got destroyed 20+ years ago. Now my body is turning on itself.

[@JenPope-b9t]

Awe, me too. Hang in there, the Lord is going to be very kind to us.

[@TrentSmith-m4h]

For what it’s worth, the “pulling as it were with a cart rope” the John refers to in Isaiah 5 is explicitly described in 2 Kings 23:6. Remember that Abraham set up a “grove” (now known to be an Asherah pole) at Beer-Sheba. (See what Josiah did to it in verse 8.)