Detail Diatribe: Tears of the Kingdom's Lonely Sky

Red busts out a detail diatribe unpacking the gooooooood game design of one-third of the map in Tears of the Kingdom!
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[@elrick44]

Lets be honest, if Link had a secret stone, he probably would've tried eating it even if he didn't know what it was. This Link cononically eats rock sirloin, the secret stone would probably look like an after-dinner mint to him

[@NeriSiren]

I love that so many people are making this joke. 🤣 Link, the Foodie of Time.

[@sockenthusiast]

this makes me wonder if some day yunobo will also confuse his secret stone with an after-dinner mint, and link will find himself having ANOTHER DRAGON to sort out

[@NeriSiren]

@@sockenthusiast 😆 I can just hear Link, Zelda AND Bludo all doing a facepalm and going “For Farosh’s Sake, Yunobo…”

[@Duiker36]

I mean, it's basically a breath mint.

[@harperna3938]

my precious pica prince

[@Hjhugj]

I like that it can be gathered that a person’s last thought becomes their instinct as a dragon. Ganondorf’s being “Kill him.” And Zelda’s being “Protect them all.”

[@enlongjones2394]

It’s also very interesting to contrast that final close up of their eyes before the transformation.

[@NeriSiren]

The minute Ganondorf decided to swallow his stone, I was like, “Oh, buddy, the narrative juxtaposition says this is not going to end well for you.” His act was completely impulsive and done out of pure greed. I’m not even sure how much he knew about draconification beforehand. He knew enough about the secret stones to recognize when Rauru was using one to repel the molduga attack, which suggests he’d been doing some research of his own into Zonai history. But knowing him, he might’ve simply ignored or dismissed the warnings as “totally not gonna apply to *me*. Zelda, on the other hand, thought hard about her decision and discussed it with Mineru before doing anything. For her, this was a calculated but still devastating self-sacrifice, whereas Ganondorf just wanted to be all-powerful and immortal. Zelda was literally playing the long game.

[@matthewmuir8884]

@@NeriSiren I wouldn't say Ganondorf's action was done out of pure greed; I'd say it was done out pure ego, stubbornness and pride. He believed he had become the strongest upon obtaining the secret stone, and he wanted Hyrule to bring its full might against him and be enough to challenge him, but be such that he would ultimately triumph through his power. When Rauru mentioned Link to Ganondorf in the past, Ganondorf believed that Link could be that full might that he desired: that worthy opponent whose defeat would demonstrate Ganondorf's supposed superiority. Then, in the present day, he was disappointed in Link after how badly Link loses at the start; becoming dismissive of Link and refusing to change his mind about Link because his ego means he can't realize when he's wrong about someone. Then, in the final battle, Link finally challenges him again, and it's all-out just as Ganondorf wanted, but Ganondorf _loses;_ he finally got the fight over Hyrule's fate that he wanted, but his ego prevents him from even conceiving of the idea that he could possibly lose, let alone lose to someone he had dismissed, so, rather than retreat or do anything that would require accepting defeat, he swallows the secret stone. I think he's fully aware of what swallowing the secret stone will do to him; before swallowing it, he even says, _"My body... My mind... Everything! I'll sacrifice it all to destroy [Link] and cast [Hyrule] into eternal night!"_ He knows swallowing the stone means losing his mind and becoming an immortal dragon; he accepts that because the alternative is accepting that a "mere mortal" he looked down on could defeat him.

[@NeriSiren]

@@matthewmuir8884 That makes sense. I forgot about the “My body…my mind…” line. Which suggests he really was doing some kind of research or had somehow heard stories about draconification before his first attack on Hyrule.

[@AndrewS-vu4ji]

Zelda's final "protect them all" still gives me chills to this day

[@GalliaUchiha]

it is amazing to me that "You friend zoned our princess and then got her killed. And ONE of those has to be a deal breaker!" is so very accurate. None of the Zora are angry that both happened. if they are angry at Link they are either angry he wasn't interested in Mipha OR upset that she died. Never 'And'.

[@metarcee2483]

One funny thing to me is that Sidon says that he was mad about Link liking Mipha as a kid, and was mad that she died, but didn't blame Link for that. Sidon was mad that his sister had a boyfriend, not that it didn't work out between them.

[@ajh22895]

RIP Mipha. Friendzoned to death

[@Knurlurzhad]

I love how Tears gives us enough to have more questions about Zonai culture. You meet Rauru the wise philosopher-king and Mineru the erudite scholar. You see these zen, geometric designs in their ruins, all the ancient tech, and it feels like they were these classic ancient aliens/perfect gods And then you remember the glide suit skydive islands were COMING OF AGE RITUALS and suddenly you remember also the barbarian set described them as warlike and brutal, and the raw, elemental and physical nature of the elemental dragon sets, which are also zonai in origin. And rauru has *very sharp teeth*. You begin to wonder where the Enlightened kings begin and the elemental, adrenaline junky dragon warriors end

[@Gloomdrake]

I have to assume there were multiple tribes within the Zonai, with their own interests

[@Knurlurzhad]

Also, I never once lost faith that we would undo the draconification as soon as I learned of it. Link always saves the Princess. Every time

[@matthewmuir8884]

@@Knurlurzhad Except Spirit Tracks, where LInk and Zelda work together for the whole game. I was personally really hoping that would also be the case in Tears of the Kingdom, and, as much as I really liked TotK's story, I was really disappointed that it once again fell back on the overused, "Link; you must find Zelda" plotline that Spirit Tracks itself hilariously mocked.

[@brycebitetti1402]

Honestly, all these contradictions kind of just make me think that Nintendo decided to use the Zonai, but also wanted sky islands and cool new technology to facilitate the new building system, and so just kind of rewrote the Zonai without giving much of a shit about how it contradicted what little of them we knew from BOTW. I don't know, I just feel like TOTK's story was just a complete waste aside from one or two standout moments and it completely squandered the Zonai in particular.

[@yugimon1208]

And even the Wise King Rauru is described as going on frequent hunting trips and having to be dragged back by Sonia for his kingly duties.

[@orderlysummit]

I would periodically visit Zeldragon and leave a Silent Princess on her snoot during my playthrough and my heart broke every time.

[@blarg2429]

That's very sweet, but also your phrasing is hilarious.

[@orderlysummit]

@@blarg2429 that's my goal

[@NeriSiren]

AWWWWW. 😭😭😭😭😭

[@NeriSiren]

I went back to the Forgotten temple once, after doing two main-story playthroughs (I’m doing oops-all-side-quests now), and placed a Sundelion with a Silent Princess on the stone marker that says “A tear with a tear.” Seemed like a nice way to commemorate the lost first queen and the missing princess, and their symbolic mother-daughter bond.

[@acecat2798]

That is a very Link move, including the fact that he's dropping it where her eyes can't see and the physics engine will blow it away when she banks a sharp turn.

[@SageofLight777]

"These games reward overthinking, and by reward, I mean make you very sad" is the quote of all time for both BotW and TotK. And it's so true.

[@logicaloverdrive8197]

35:27 The idea that Zelda moved in, redecorated, and now shares a bed with Link are the only reasons I dont mind losing my weapon mounts

[@archivist_13]

Zelda came to our house, saw our cool weapons on the walls and the motorbike and said "Oh no way my husband will die if he keeps living like this."

[@strcmdrbookwyrm]

Yeah, though it's my personal headcannon is that there's only one bed is not because they share a bed, but because Link just sleeps outside now.

[@supercamborg4218]

@@strcmdrbookwyrmtbh I could see both, and them not being mutually exclusive

[@syahrezadifachri5121]

And then Link buy another house just to have his own man cave in tarrey town

[@kingramennoodle]

@@supercamborg4218 he sleeps outside if he comes home late, not because zelda is mad but because he cares too much to disturb her. he knows she tired and lets her get the beauty sleep she needs.

[@rfactor1502]

Red: Figures out first big twist early. Blue: Stumbles past first big twist to figure out the second one early due to Get Smart. Perfection. *chef's kiss*

[@tabletopnephilim4633]

Oh my god, the idea that Link wouldn't tell anyone about draconification because he KNOWS the sages would go for it makes so much sense! Also, something I've got to say about the Ganondorf fight. I absolutely LOVE it when a game gives you some really cool ability or skillset, and then you rock up on the final boss and they're like "By the way, I can do that too." You have this moment where you're simultaneously going "Oh my god, that's so cool!" and "Haha, I'm in danger!" because you KNOW they're better at it than you are!

[@Mare_Man]

... And then he doesn't actually follow through with parrying you

[@char1194]

​@@Mare_ManHe'd need a shield to do that, and ganondorf doesnt have one(which speaks to his character and invulnerability tbh)

[@NeriSiren]

@@char1194 Or his expectation of invulnerability. He’s pretty much hubris incarnate.

[@speedude0164]

From what they knew of draconification, I can't imagine the Sages turning into Dragons would be of much help since they'd kinda just be flying around mindlessly like the Light Dragon does. I think Link doesn't tell anyone cause he wants to keep the people's spirits high. The evil that threatened them for 100 years has just been revived in its true form and everyone is working overtime to protect the kingdom; learning that their benevolent princess's soul is sealed away inside a Dragon for the rest of time wouldn't do them any favors.

[@ethanbaer65]

​@@Mare_Man doesn't he attack after he dodges? Usually it's just one attack and you're fully able to dodge it, though.

[@garrettwhite4448]

"Zelda worm on a string edition" Was not a phrase I expected to hear today....but now I want a worm on a string modeled after the light dragon

[@pinkcupcake4717]

Zelda really said "would you still love me if I was a wyrm."

[@schrodingerscat4503]

@@pinkcupcake4717 And Link said (thought) "I would love you that much more, because you did this to save a Hyrule you thought you'd never see again. And you were so brave, and so strong, and you put all your faith in me and the sages, and I can't let you down now." GODDAMNIT PINK your goofy comment made me had sad thoughts!!!! (it's okay though I'm just processing the story) (but now you have to read my thoughts too >:) )

[@ashley-rosebellendaine899]

“The choir is singing backwards” is a pretty good clue that you are not going to enjoy what you’re about to find

[@Alza.art4518]

It’s such a truly beautiful thing that during the start of the game, you are completely alone. Nobody around you. Just mindless defense automata, and this weird ghost goat dude. Then by the end you’re pulling up to ganon in your pimped out wooden flying tactical weaponized hyrulian Ferrari with a korok crucified to the front and four legendary guardians behind you and a flying dragon

[@matthewmuir8884]

Yeah, that is great; I just wish that hadn't been done by teasing the idea of Link and Zelda adventuring together at the start and then ripping them away from each other for the rest of the game. My favourite Zelda game is Spirit Tracks, which mocked the series' overuse of the "Link; you must find Zelda" plotline, which makes it both tiring and really weird that almost every game since then has used that exact plotline. Don't get me wrong; I liked the fake Zelda and Light Dragon plotlines; I guess I'm just tired of Link adventuring alone.

[@enlongjones2394]

I particularly love the parts where the sages bust in to save you from a hopeless situation. They’re here *for you*. Link isn’t alone anymore.

[@kip_c]

You just described BOTW barring a couple extraneous details

[@connormcnulty6377]

Just… one Korok?

[@BandFairy]

​@@connormcnulty6377Well, you know, you can only fuse like 20 items together.

[@rmsgrey]

I think it says a lot about Zelda that, on the way to investigate the source of the leaking evil, she takes time to geek out over the architecture and murals. She's a total nerd, and nothing, not even non-diegetic ominous music, is going to distract her from that.

[@GeneralOlde]

Plus it feels appropriate that she’s interested in learning about the Imprisoning War, and her whole journey is about living through it and bonding with her ancestors who turn out to be the loving and supportive parents she always need in her life. Furthermore, they end up helping her in a way Rhoam never could. It’s really touching actually.

[@NeriSiren]

@@GeneralOlde Yes. Rhoam was all, “You have to unlock your power by yourself and also what’s taking you so long??!!” while Rauru and Sonia were much more chill and gentle about it. Sonia literally says, “Wisdom takes time,” which is the best kind of message a parent can give their child. Plus, I LOVE how chill Rauru is when Zelda introduces herself as the daughter of a Hyrulean king. He’s not threatened or offended in the least. His response is just: Well, that’s unexpected. It really shows the good humor the chamberlain describes on the sky stellae.

[@LineOfThy]

@@NeriSiren One funny detail I learned is that Rhoam was also originally a terrible king - not in the sense that he was cruel but because he would always go out hunting instead of doing his royal duties - requiring Sonia to drag him back home. It's not much but it goes a long way to show us Rhoam's personality.

[@NeriSiren]

@@LineOfThy Do you mean Rauru? I remember that bit from the Wortsworth side quest. I read that as him being the kind of king who-to borrow some NCIS terminology-prefers the “field work” much more than the “paperwork” or bureaucratic elements of kingship. Then again, maybe he and Sonia were both still so new to their positions that this was part of the adjustment period. His way of leading the Zonai might’ve been very different to the way things needed to be done in the new Hyrule, so he would often need reminders from Sonia, who’d grown up with more of that knowledge in the background.

[@LineOfThy]

@@NeriSiren ye rauru. I somehow got their names mixed up XD

[@Phantom-qr1ug]

One of the coolest moments I had while playing was during a particular questline in Gerudo Town. Down in the shelter (after you help Riju kick the Gibdo Queen's ass) you can find a gerudo archeologist who offers a sidequest to find some ancient gerudo carvings located on the walls of the shelter. After finding those and presenting pictures of them to her, she'll geek out about how the carvings are about the legendary seven heroines (who were also mentioned in BotW), describing poetically what they did and why they did it. In the shelter, there is also a room with a miniature recreation of the circle of the massive statues depicting the seven heroines which you can find out in the desert next to the southern mountain range. Each miniature statue also has their arms held out as if holding something, accompanied by a unique symbol. By completing various sidequests in Gerudo Town and Kara Kara Bazaar, you are rewarded with weird spheres, that just so happens to have the same symbols adorned on them. Once you've placed the spheres in the hands of each respective heroine a hidden door opens up, revealing one massive sphere that you then transport to the gerudo ruins north of town (where Riju was training during the sandstorm) and plop in a hole in the ground, opening up a hidden complex of ruins, at the end of which you're greated with an equipment cache (every single piece of gerudo weaponry is there, waiting for someone to wield them) and a message from the seven heroines. During this questline, the archeologist has talked about the possibility of there being an eighth heroine, largely unknown to the rest of the gerudo community. Through this ancient message, the heroines reveal that the eight heroine was in fact a voe (man), a voe who united the seven and saved the gerudo from an apocalyptic threat. However, because he was a guy, he wasn't allowed into the town (courtesy of the whole "Ganon being reincarnated as a gerudo voe"-thingy Gerudo Town is strictly no-guys allowed, except Link of course), which made the heroines feel real bad, asking themselves what kind of way that was to thank the person who saved their entire way of life. The reason this is so cool is because, as mentioned before, in the Gerudo Desert, there are seven massive statues depicting the seven heroines standing in a circle just west of the mountain range. On the northeastern edge of the Gerudo Mountains however, there is a lone, eight statue facing the rest of Hyrule, still very much in the same style as the seven, but far away, completely alone and on the other side of the mountains. All these statues appeared in BotW, and back then, no one knew a damn thing about them or why one was missing. This eight hero is also implied (or at the very least I read it as such) to be a previous incarnation of Link, possibly the same one who fought the First Calamity 10,000 years ago. While I was doing this questline, the game only ever gave bits and pieces of lore, the one who had to put them together was me, which was so fucking cool. This game is an absolute masterpiece and easily my game of the year. (Sidenote: I fucking adore the archeology-vibes you get when exploring ruins, especially dungeons. Never knew I needed a high-fantasy Indiana Jones-game but I got one anyway)

[@generalgarchomp333]

Only thing I don't like about that is that in BotW it said the seven heroines were related to the seven sages.

[@archivist_13]

Yeah that sidequest was so damn interesting

[@StonedHunter]

@@generalgarchomp333 it's possible they WERE the sages of their time

[@fdstproductions6924]

46:17 "Link can only get up there with a paraglider" Me who didn't talk to Purah with a glide suit, a hot air balloon, and a dream: Observe.

[@LlamasAtMidnight]

Rockets go brrr

[@B2WM]

Sokka Airbending:

[@ragyrge]

I feel like Blue's comments about Zelda's instinct being to try to protect Link at around the 1 hour mark could make for an entire Detail Diatribe of its own. This incarnation of Link and Zelda are all about that in a deeper way than every other pair in the series. Zelda awakens her godly powers in BotW just because Link is in grave danger, when every other method fails, and in TotK she manages to somehow keep a speck of her individuality just to help him. Likewise, Link is unflinching in his own desire to protect Zelda, from the overexhertion that led him to basically work himself to death in BotW (to the point he even worked the Master Sword into a broken state we had never seen up until that point in the series), to the moment in the TotK intro when he doesn't hesitate even for a second from dropping his sacred weapon and jump after the falling princess even if there's nothing he could actually do if he managed to grab her hand, which itself serves as a setup for when he does it again at the end of the game. This Link and Zelda are all about Even in Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, Link seems to be failing to pull the Master Sword from the pedestal until Zelda is directly threatened. This version of Link and Zelda are all about summoning impossible heroic resolve from their desire to help each other, literally making each other stronger by their very existence.

[@impartialthrone2097]

I subscribe to the idea that the sealing power is just the full Triforce, culturally forgotten and re-understood as sealing power by this point in the timeline. And that Zelda only unlocked the power when she did because she had "power" all her life as the princess, she had "wisdom" as the studious scholar she was, but it was only at that moment when she went to protect Link rather than him protecting her, thinking she was probably about to die just to shield him, that she fully embodied "courage", and thus could use the full Triforce.

[@pinkcupcake4717]

I think it's a lovely echo/bookend to the Skyward Sword duo. The two at the very beginning had a strong love for each other, and that love turned the first Link from a small town darling to an eternally reincarnated champion. And at the very end of the story (as far as we understand it) the last Zelda taps into that same love-bond to have the power to completely destroy Ganon and let the cycle end.

[@archivist_13]

They have the best relationship in the Wild trilogy

[@archivist_13]

​@@impartialthrone2097interesting idea

[@archivist_13]

​@@pinkcupcake4717it's not the end of the cycle, but you still make a good point

[@aikenlau2500]

Random thing about the dragons- since BoTW established that no one except Link and children could see dragons, I wonder what the average Hylian was seeing in the final fight? Imagine just chilling at Lookout Landing and seeing the castle randomly explode and Link falling through the sky and slashing at something in the air while standing on nothing

[@StonetheDestroyer42]

And then it freaking explodes.

[@ajguevara6961]

Well, they can't see the dragons, but they can see malice and gloom. They probably saw Link fighting a large and long blob of gloom and malice firing more gloom and malice at him.

[@matthewmuir8884]

@@ajguevara6961 So, basically they would have seen Calamity Ganon fighting Link?

[@ajguevara6961]

@@matthewmuir8884 yes, I think so.

[@johnnygyro2295]

​@@ajguevara6961 "Oh hey, Link's back." *sees him fighting a giant malice/gloom blob* "Oh f*ck, Ganon's back!?"

[@kiwilemontea4622]

The fact that gravity is optional for the Zonai just made it even more clear to me that they are, in fact, space aliens. A part of me optimistically hopes that instead of dying out or being sealed away, most of the Zonai simply went back to their homeworld. Maybe the entire reason the Zonai came to Hyrule was to mine zonaite, and when the mines were depleted, they had no reason to stay. Perhaps the astral observatories and planetarium things were created so the Zonai could map their route home.

[@CarbonMage]

Well, at least the Zonai were friendlier than Them (also, less likely to steal your cows)

[@kiwilemontea4622]

Given how ancient Hylians reacted to the Zonai, I'm pretty sure Rauru and Mineru could have just asked for a cow and had one in a snap XD No cow theft necessary! @@CarbonMage

[@AnthonyDGreen]

OMG! Listening to this video I just came to the exact same conclusion and it so made so much sense. The reason there are no houses in the sky is because they never lived in the sky. This whole planet was just a mining colony for them. The depths are an inconceivably huge quarry and when they mined it out they left. They didn't "descend from the sky" like Skyward Sword. That's how primitive Hyruleans would of course describe space aliens. They're not like every other sky-tribe in various Zelda games. They didn't come from Skyloft, nor did they ascend from the surface like in Minish Cap. They were visiting, they left, and Rauru and his sister were either left behind or stayed behind. They "went native".

[@archivist_13]

The statues of them at the beginning literally made me go "am I playing Metroid right now?"

[@pancakes8670]

They could be references to the Japanese media trope of "Rabbits from the Moon", which would mean they literally are space aliens.

[@nathaningram347]

“A Graveyard Wreathed In Golden Flowers” is such a goddamn good description.

[@somenameidk5278]

i read this comment before getting to that part of the video, and i just thought "haha undertale"

[@GeekMasterGames]

The concept of "They're bigger than you and older than you and you can't do anything to stop them" feels almost Lovecraftian, but instead of horror it's almost placid or melancholic.

[@_jpg]

"A Lonely Sky" could be the title of an autobiography written by an introverted crane

[@thekeeper6570]

It IS a Chris de Burgh song

[@RogelioALoya]

Don’t mind me, just was confused cause I thought they meant Jonathan crane

[@SirAsdf]

Or the last surviving member of a species that's about to go extinct.

[@TheKpa11]

Lonely Island’s ascended band name

[@_jpg]

@@SirAsdf Sadly, there actually are endangered crane subspecies 😔

[@ragnorak6452]

The thing I find most interesting about this theme is that the game ends with Link falling after Zelda, literally moving away from the lonely sky as he gets closer to her. A very neat contrast with the fall that separates them at the very start of the game as well as a touching reunion with both Link and Zelda together on the ground.

[@archivist_13]

It's fantastic

[@scifisyko]

You kind of touch on it, but my friends and I talked about the dragons a lot and our operating theory is that when a person goes through draconification, the only part of them that remains is the reason they underwent draconification. So when Ganondorf did it, the only thing the Demon Dragon remembered was destroying Link, because that’s why Ganondorf went through with it. Whereas when Zelda did it, the only thing the Light Dragon remembered was helping Link, because that was why she did it.

[@Zac_Frost]

I agree. I think for the other 3 dragons, they were Zonai priestesses to the 3 goddesses that maintained their springs. As they got on in age, they may have decided to do it so they could keep doing that duty to make sure it was done forever.

[@impartialthrone2097]

​@@Zac_Frostmy theory is that the 3 dragons are literally just the goddesses, and the whole creation story is an exaggeration, that they, 3 Zonai of importance, didn't create Hyrule, but found it and were worshipped by its people, and became the dragons later, and their names were altered over time.

[@Mare_Man]

​@@impartialthrone2097 But we know the Golden Goddesses were actual deities because of Skyward Sword.

[@impartialthrone2097]

@@Mare_Man I'll admit I never got past the volcano dungeon, I didn't much care for Skyward Sword. Is it actually made explicit that they were deities or was that just ancient legend "long ago" stuff? Some secret stones seem to bestow greater power than others. Could it not be that the three goddesses just had the three greatest secret stones? Allowing them to do things on the level of making the Triforce, itself a reality warping power?

[@Mare_Man]

@impartialthrone2097 The Golden Goddesses were explicitly the ones who created the world and entrusted the goddess Hylia with the Triforce. The Secret Stones don't hold a candle to the power of the Triforce.

[@AcidRayn24]

1:02:09 I really like the idea that mineru explained that you’d lose yourself if you became a dragon, yet Zelda somehow keeps a semblance of herself through all this, solely because she had Fi lodged in her head to remind her who she was through the whole process.

[@erinfinn2273]

My friend who LOVES this game, pointed out to me that an incomplete version of Zelda's Lullaby plays when you are around the Light Dragon, like she is still clinging to the few things she CAN remember.

[@moxperidot1012]

As absolutely emotionally devastating as it would have been for Himbo Shark Husband to have swallowed his Secret Stone, i really do want to see what Sidon would have looked like as a dragon. Just, a giant red and white shark dragon, flying through the sky.

[@claran3616]

He’s practically a dragon already, that should be fairly easy to design/draw

[@QilleWolf]

It warms my heart to see that so many people hang out on the Light Dragon’s forehead whenever she’s around. I’d always sit with her and tell her about my adventures 💔

[@michaelbaughman4358]

💔 indeed.. I'm having a hard time replaying the game because every time I see the light dragon I have to pause the game and ugly cry for about 30 minutes

[@pinkcupcake4717]

This game duology does something magical with this Zelda that upon learning the truth of the Light Dragon, it seems like everyone's instinct was "I need to go to her."

[@alenor210]

One of my favorite moments from TotK was exploring hyrule castle early in the game. After making my way up there, I was shocked to see how desolate it was. The music was a muted version of BotW’s bombastic theme, there were only a handful of weak monsters; the castle was just empty. Before, it was the final dungeon and a symbol of Ganon’s infection in Hyrule. But now it’s just an empty, crumbling monument to a dead kingdom.

[@easymodegamer501]

It’s interesting that Red thought to use the Recall rune to save Zelda, because if you pay close attention, that’s EXACTLY what you do at the end of the game.

[@Tai-Rex]

In retrospect, the breaking of the cloud barrier has a really funny moment. The quest "Find Princess Zelda" pops up, as the Light Dragon is flying across the screen and made me laugh out loud on second playthrough.

[@stroodleloodle2909]

Like an I spy book lol

[@geofff.3343]

Only Link is aware of the background music. That's why he can hum his own theme song while cooking.

[@kiiroshidori4296]

When I first saw the light dragon’s color scheme, my brain immediately went: that looks like Zelda. But I was still shocked and sad when that thought turned out to be true, because the dragons only fly through the sky without ever interacting with anything, existing in loneliness.

[@KanadasKid]

i dunno, farosh always struck me as having a rich internal life

[@NeriSiren]

I freaking love this game. For me, it was the Ancient Past storyline that hit hardest-the whole tragedy of King Rauru really meaning well and trying to take all the responsibility upon himself so Sonia and Zelda wouldn’t worry, and then losing Sonia because he underestimated Ganondorf’s abilities, and then blaming himself so deeply that he still thinks he has to fix things by himself. It’s such a contrast to King Rhoam, who failed the kingdom by putting too *much* pressure and fear on Zelda, making it impossible for her to succeed until she was in her Darkest Hour moment. And that, too, was a failure to see the need or value of teamwork-he put so much public and private stock in one person having The Goddess Power (tm) that he basically sabotaged everyone’s chances. And that, to me, is the huge heartwrenching element for Zelda herself-having already lost her mother in a sudden way, then her father in a battle against Ganon, she meets these two ancestors who become like surrogate/found parents, and then loses both of *them* the same way. It’s astounding how well this Zelda is able to keep moving forward after living her whole life either being traumatized by expectations or traumatized by loss of loved ones. On a slight tangent, my theory on draconification is that the mind-erasing effect is both a safeguard and a mercy. The former because a dragon conscious of their own power and immortality could easily go all power-mad and basically do the same damage as the Calamity; and the latter because even a mortal mind that’s not inclined toward power-hungry excesses could break under the weight of all those millennia of awareness and loneliness. That’s why Zelda feels so disoriented upon waking in Link’s arms at the end, thinking she’d only just swallowed the stone. Instead of suffering an infinite existence alone, the first thing she’s aware of after swallowing the stone is a “loving embrace.” This game just hits SO MANY FEELS. 🥺🥹😭🥹🥺🥹😭😭😭

[@goldsocks9999]

The moment I will never forget from ToTk was in the goron quest line because I did that first (also that's one way to be introduced to the depths as I never went there before the dungeon), me and bunobo somehow did a team combo where I knocked an enemy to him, he comboed and knocked it back, and I was able to get a headshot. It was the coolest moment ever.

[@SsjRedneck]

Certified Gamer Moment

[@Excelsior1937]

I got Yunobo second. Later when we were fighting in the coliseum I finished off a silver Moblin when Tulin sniped it, rendering it stunned and almost dead, Yunobo knocked the stunned Moblin over to me, and I dealt the killing blow with a jumping attack slamming my two handed weapon into it from above. That was freaking cool

[@NeriSiren]

As I seem to be the 69th 👍, I will simply say: Nice! 🤟😎

[@AegixDrakan]

Oh dang, that was your introduction to the depths? DAAAAANG that's a hell of a way to find out about them. XD

[@NeriSiren]

@@AegixDrakan Hell indeed, amirite? 🥁😁

[@TheRoseJester]

I love "Lady hylia's specialest boy" so much its SUCH A GOOD QUOTE

[@KaiRedSky]

Something i really liked about the idea of civilization trying to thrive now that the world was saved was the monster eradication force, people actively attacking monster settlements helps drive home the idea that these people are fighting for a better world, and they’re even aware that after every blood moon they’ll come back. They still do it and they want to because just leaving those monsters be they could hurt other innocent people, so they keep at it and they hope one day there can be a way to keep them gone forever

[@88XD-88]

More than anything else, I just really love the tone and mood of these recent Zelda games. Sure, you're in a big, amazing fantasy world, but there's also this melancholy to it. It's hugely engrossing 😊

[@princbubblegum]

i love the melancholy feel to it. it kinda reminds me of tolkien with the feeling of a past life that used to be bustling ( i’ve only seen the movies so correct me if i’m wrong) but has faded away a bit with the passage of time.

[@petrenocka]

That got to be the best preamble of all time, or at least a nominee

[@brycebitetti1402]

Honestly, I got that feeling a lot more with BOTW than I did TOTK, and it's partly why I think it's the stronger game. I think that the things that TOTK adds (the Zonai and their devices most especially) feel too game-y, to the point where they disrupt the tone. It doesn't help that unlike the different races in the first game, the Zonai are so underdeveloped that I get no sense of culture from them, and thus no emotional response to the remains of their civilization.

[@princbubblegum]

@@brycebitetti1402i understand. i get why the zonai devices especially would make you feel that way. but i feel like the evolution of the of when and where you feel the melancholic tone between the two games feels quite natural. botw’s is definitely more potent throughout the entire game, but totk’s is more scattered but i think still effective imo :)

[@simeonrice6047]

To be fair, a lot of the games focus a lot on melancholy in general. Whenever the series gets "dark" it usually accompanies it with sadness and longing rather than anger and violence. Ocarina is about the loss of innocence, Majora is about grief, Awakening ends with Link facing an incarnation of his worst feat (Agahnim/Ganon returning) and losing Marin. The main difference is that in BotW and TotK, they place the melancholy solely on the music and environments rather than what's directly stated. Achieves the same goal through different means. God, I love this series.

[@johndavidtibbetts7320]

The fact that Zelda's love for Link is so ingrained, so primal, so fundamental to her being, that even after untold millennia as a mindless immortal dragon, when link is in danger or needs help, she will always be there, makes this the best version of their relationship

[@erinfinn2273]

"Would you still love me if I was a wyrm? Because I will, for all time" -Zelda, probably

[@jordanturnbow701]

I’m very surprised that this wasn’t longer

[@quantumofzentrix2748]

a full DD would be 5 hours

[@dargossss]

I mean, it's only about the sky islands.

[@shadeshadow2347]

I’m super familiar with breath of the wild’s map. I spent a lot of time exploring. Like, I got all the koroks. I could give you directions from Lurelin to Rito Village. I got _so lost_ in the sky! Suddenly I was seeing this incredibly familiar world from a brand new angle, and it threw me, every time. I remember distinctly running around on a set of islands before I got all of the map, looking down, and realizing… I didn’t know where I was. I didn’t recognize the scenery! Unbelievably exciting. It was mount lanayru. Mount Lanayru! I know the topography of that thing up and down! And I didn’t recognize it, just because of the new angle. Love this game. They managed to recapture that sense of exploration, and I’m so, _so_ glad that I was able to play it. My one problem… where’s my guy Kass??

[@deadcard13]

Wind Waker and Breath of the Wild are reversions back to the original tone that was aimed for in the original NES The Legend of Zelda. If I recall, the Link in that game is the reincarnation of a the Hero who fought and died to Gannon and since that defeat, the kingdom has been in decline. It's actually kinda cool to see a lot of those early elements come back around for spiritual reboots.

[@samreddig8819]

Even better. Wind waker link is just some dude whose sister got kidnapped. Hes not destined to beat gannondorf. He just does it anyways.

[@jasonkeith2832]

​@@samreddig8819Most Links are chosen by the Godess to defeat Ganon and save Hyrule. WW Link looked Ganondorf in the eye and basically said "You messed with my friend and sister, so I'm going to kill you."

[@supercamborg4218]

Link in Zelda 1 wasn’t originally a reincarnation, but in Zelda 2 as he turned 16 he was revealed to have met the requirements to fulfill a prophecy. "a young man with that character who has been brought up correctly, has gained many kinds of experiences and reached a certain age". In Zelda 2 Ganon’s minions intended to kill Link and sprinkle his blood on Ganon’s remains to resurrect him.

[@davidbreadner8535]

that's the explicit plot of Twilight princess too. Zelda devs love the ghibli-esc post apocalyptic worlds.

[@timothymenard1750]

1:09:04 One thing that always struck me as interesting in SotC is that Dormin keeps his word, also when he possesses Wander he says he's borrowing his body implying he intends to return it to Wander, it's just really interesting to me that even after Dormin is defeated and sealed away again he keeps his promise and resurrects Mono.

[@Duiker36]

There are a lot of tropes surrounding the deal with the devil, but that the devil will keep his word is fairly common among them, because that's how you make the mortal merely desperate rather than stupid. But many of the tropes are outright contradictory just because there's so much morality-play and subversion going on with iterations of that kind of story, so you also get "the devil always lies" and every point on the spectrum in between.

[@pinkcupcake4717]

Considering how Gerudo Town was one of the few towns that was doing well in BOTW, walking into it in TOTK, desolate and abandoned and filled with shambling corpses, was such a GUT PUNCH. The other towns getting set back was saddening, but seeing such a vibrant and colorful city ~~of strong powerful women~~ be completely destroyed was heartbreaking. TOTK delivered some incredible gut punches, especially in regards to this Zelda.

[@thaddeushamlet]

Something I noticed about the three dragons; they all have the overhanging lip/beak thing that Rauru and Mineru have, as well as very large floppy ears. The light dragon does not have the beak, and its ears while very large are shaped differently and come straight out more akin to hylian ears.

[@meltedmemez3923]

Maybe that’s how the other zonai got wiped out, 3 zonai draconified, and because they lost themselves they attacked the rest of the zonai, leaving Rauru and Mineru the last ones left. Maybe the perfect hole in that mountain is one of the blasts from a dragon

[@meltedmemez3923]

This could give more insight to how Mineru knew so much about draconification and why she warned Zelda against it

[@thaddeushamlet]

@@meltedmemez3923 I think the hole in the mountain is meant to be from a divine beast or one of Rauru's third eye blasts (which the divine beast lasers seem to be based off of). Also I think there's lore about the zonai actually leaving? I don't remember well enough but either way it would make sense if the dragons were a contributing factor if not the main reason for their disappearance

[@lyricholmes1827]

The first quest in ToTK is “Find Princess Zelda” and it’s the last quest which is completed in the main story… and it’s only completed when Zelda is turned back to human and Link catches her from falling. I assumed the reason Link didn’t tell anyone Zelda was turned into a dragon is because he refused to believe she’s lost to herself and to the rest of the Kingdom. He’s still holding out hope. In his eyes, he hasn’t found the Princess until she’s back by his side. And I also felt, because it was the first quest in the game, Link’s ultimate aim wasn’t to defeat Ganon, but to find Zelda. It’s why he’s still following all these bogus leads in his downtime. Defeating Ganon was just something he had to do in order to be with Zelda again. Link wants to save his friends and his home because it’s the right thing to do, and because Zelda needs something to come home to. I also assumed the Zonai didn’t go extinct, (or if they did, it wasn’t until much later.) I assumed the rest of the Zonai went back into the Sky (the sacred realm) and Raru and Mineru were the only ones who decided to stay. Considering the Zonai were considered Gods to the Hylians at the time, it would make sense they would see themselves as ‘above’ and ‘more advanced’ and were not at all interested in forging relationships with the people on the surface. They were just curious about this other civilisation, and wanted to establish a footprint on the land in order to be worshipped and remembered by building historical monuments etc. Even Raru and Mineru who stayed behind decided they’d be royalty if they did so. Raru seems to be the only one who entered into a relationship with a Hylian, maybe because he was more progressive…

[@archivist_13]

TotK really is just Link's quest to find his wife with the side quest of kicking Ganondorf's ass

[@matthewmuir8884]

I do like the particular ways that TotK used the classic, "Link, you must find Zelda" plotline. However, I do hope the next game doesn't use that plotline at all and ideally has Link and Zelda adventure together. I find it a bit weird that the Zelda game _Spirit Tracks_ hilariously mocked the series' overuse of the "Link, you must find Zelda" plotline only for almost every game since then to use that exact same plotline unironically,

[@lyricholmes1827]

@@matthewmuir8884 yeah ToTK did a good job of the ‘Find the Princess’ trope. Personally, I’d really like Link and Zelda to work together to break the reincarnation cycle…We haven’t seen the Triforce in BOTW or TOTK so it’d be really cool to get some solid lore about the Triforce, have Link and Zelda work together to rebuild it and use its power to stop Ganondorf ever being reborn…or something along those lines.

[@impartialthrone2097]

​@@lyricholmes1827I still believe Zelda has the full Triforce within her and culturally, Hyrule just doesn't know what a "Triforce" is anymore. That concept has been lost to the sands of time and it's now understood to be the royal family's "Sealing Power" and the three triangles are only understood to be part of the symbol of the royal family. But like... The full Triforce appears when Zelda destroys Calamity Ganon at the end of BotW, c'mon now 😅. We know that the whole Triforce can just be inside one person, because it's in Link throughout the entirety of Skyward Sword. You get them in a realm that represents Link's inner being, hence why looking into pools of water in that realm, you can't see Link's reflection, just the Triforce above.

[@lyricholmes1827]

@@impartialthrone2097 I had assumed the knowledge of the Triforce had been lost to time in BOTW & TOTK, (although obviously the symbol can still be seen throughout Hyrule, through architecture and clothing etc.) I did notice the Triforce on Zelda’s hand when she activated her sealing power in BOTW, although I just never assumed the entirety of the Triforce’s power has gone on to reside in the royal family’s bloodline. Maybe that’s dumb haha, but I never connected those dots. I thought in the ending of TOTK, when Raru and Sonja channelled their powers through Link to return Zelda to human form they were using the Triforce in some way, (Raru = Power, Sonja = Wisdom, Link = Courage.) We understand Zelda has time powers and a sacred power to dispel evil, but I figured Sonja just had time power… which I’m not sure if that’s true… if you know please reply! I’d be interested to know if the Triforce has been in the royal family’s blood for as far back as Sonja’s time, or if it’s something that most likely happens after… although personally I’d still be down for a game focusing on Link and Zelda trying to break the reincarnation cycle to stop Ganon being reborn…however yeah, maybe the sacred power Zelda has being from the full Triforce is a little obvious in retrospect haha, but I honestly just thought it was because she holds the Wisdom portion of the Triforce, whilst Link holds the Courage portion (or his ancestors did at some point…)

[@GeneralOlde]

1:03:13 This is extra funny, because the time powers Zelda gave you at the start of the game actually do end up being the key to restoring her at the end. It's just that, tying in with the game's theme of cooperation and working with others, Link couldn't have done it on his own; he needed some helping hands. The more I think about it, the more I realize how well put together the game's story actually is. If you ever do another Detail Diatribe on Zelda, I would love to hear your thoughts on Princess Zelda's character development across both games, since she's easily the most fleshed out version of the character to date.

[@timothymenard1750]

Probably my favourite moment from TotK (a game FULL of incredible moments) was when i got jumpscared by one of the living trees popping out of the ground for the first time and walking at me.

[@connorscorner443]

Haha yeah that scared the shit out of me 😂😂😂 Same with those creepy hands

[@JoeGrzzly]

I do wish in that final cutscene with Mineru that she had passed on her secret stone to Purah. It makes so much sense for this fellow scientist who coordinated the effort to defeat Ganondorf to become the new Sage of Spirits.

[@char1194]

It wouldnt really make sense though, the sage of spirit is control over the soul, and purah has no such power. Instead, she's taken on a role as a witness to the sages, a supervisor of sorts. And in the end when Zelda addresses the others, she's facing Purah too. She's not a sage, but yet she's still included, and I think it was handled well

[@chrayez]

@@char1194I’m quite late to this discussion, but the secret stones don’t have inherent powers, they just enhance the user, essentially making them “Sage of ”. Rauru’s stone as Sage of Light becomes Zelda’s as Sage of Time after she picks it up in the opening scene. And Sonia’s time stone becomes Ganondorf’s stone as (according to the stylized kanji on his stone) Sage of Darkness/Shadow. So Mineru giving her stone to Purah wouldn’t automatically make Purah Sage of Spirit, but could instead make her something like a Sage of Knowledge instead.

[@ADiceySituation]

Talking about the fact you can't get through the dungeons in TOTK alone, i made it to the Wind Temple by myself before I realized I needed to continue the main quest first to do so. Spent like 30 minutes to an hour trying to figure out how to get the turbines moving to unlock the fast travel to and from the dungeon.

[@darlhiatt8136]

Yeah the Zonai devices can get you there if you try hard enough, it was a little disappointing to not be able to do anything there without help but it turned out I do like Tulin and I'm happy to have my birb fren now.

[@killfalcon]

I had a great moment, literally minutes into the game. Exploring the ruins with Zelda, I realise I have the master sword, and for a moment I relax, because it isn't glowing, there aren't any enemies nearby. *then* the damn thing lights up.

[@brittany1049]

45:10 I’m an archaeologist, and this is pretty much how we have to handle our interpretations responsibly. Love that you’re nailing major facets of my profession in a (fantastic) video game discussion 😂

[@Doubtlessly]

13:45 Red described so beautifully why I, as an old Zelda fan who loves games like Majora’s Mask, loved TOTK so much more than BOTW - the world itself is fuller with the little guys. NPCs aren’t just bland stand ins in Zelda; they are all their own heroes of their own tiny stories … Hoz and his crew is running off to fight monsters, Purah is studying the castle, the royal archeologists are all over the place trying to understand zonai tech, there are fashionistas, there’s the band motivating the fairies to open up, and even Addison is spreading his stupid signs. They are all here, real, and helping out. Every tiny story is important in a way that reminds me a lot of Majora’s Mask. But the game doesn’t completely lose the loneliness of BOTW - whereas I thought the game as a whole before was far too empty, the sky islands reaches that state emotionally. And it handles that feeling better because it ties to our friend’s horrible fate. Game good? Game good.

[@StevenJQuinlan]

Weirdly enough I feel that this is something sequels can do very well, show the world the day after you beat the Big Bad. FFX-2, despite it's aesthetic, has a surprisingly deep story about moving on after you've stopped being the 'chosen one', and how you move on from being one of the great heroes to just being another person in the world as the main character, Summoner Yuna, is no longer a summoner after the first game and has to find another way to make her way,

[@rmsgrey]

Yuna wasn't exactly a "great hero" until she completed her pilgrimage - would-be High Summoners were not exactly uncommon in Spira - Lulu was on her third Pilgrimage (one dead, one quit) and you meet several others on the way. In X-2, she may no longer be a Summoner, but she is the last High Summoner, and the only High Summoner to have survived their confrontation with Sin, and, while she is trying to figure out life as a private citizen, she is also a celebrity, and would be leading Spira if she had the slightest interest. One of the themes of the game is the disruption caused by Yuna's having trashed the previous power hierarchy (ending summoning, permanently banishing Sin with the aid of Al Bhed Machina, killing off most of Spira's leaders, and exposing the lie at the heart of Yevon... okay, Seymour did a fair amount too, but he's no longer around) and then refused to occupy the power vacuum she created. In X-2, Yuna has even more responsibility for Spira's fate than she did in X - as the (half) Al Bhed High Summoner who denounced Yevon, she's a symbol for all three major factions, uniquely placed as the only person who could unite Spira.

[@belindaluna2067]

@@rmsgrey Whether or not you would call Yuna a "regular person" in X-2, there's still a lot of moving on she has to do. In X, she had a destiny, she had a thing she was going to do, she had a mission that she let define her whole life. (Hell, it was a mission that defined _several_ people's lives.) From the point she decided to fight, to "-make sorrow go away, not just cover it up with lies." she was forging a new path. This left her with the unexpected problem at the end of X of figuring out...fuck, what do I do now? She thought she was going to bring the calm and die and that would be it; what does she do when she realizes her old purpose isn't a thing anymore, and she's a got a whole life ahead of her to figure out what to do with? So many games have stories where the characters have to dedicate their lives to a cause and when they win the game just ends; it's interesting to see what happens afterward in games like X-2. There are similar themes in TOTK, what with the whole post-apocalypse vibe and all. The battle's over, (or so they believe) the damage is done, we're still here. What do we do, how do we rebuild? As the video points out, there's lot's of environmental storytelling around that shows how Link and Zelda and the rest of the world are figuring it out together even after what was accomplished in BOTW. It adds another angle to the whole "save the world" thing that we don't usually get to see, which is neat.

[@animex75]

One of my favorite thing in Tears is the group battles you can do with the monster control squad. It's nice not being the only one fighting monsters, and it makes so much sense that the people of Hyrule would be stepping up to try and retake the land from monsters.

[@redandjam]

One of my favorite lines from botw is the old lady in hateno mentioning growing up in the "age of burning fields" like its unremarkable

[@kag2576]

I love the interpretation of the sky islands as a place to catch your breath and get your thoughts together before diving back to the surface to deal with some eldritch horrors. I adore the execution of the light dragon quest because while the game gives you the answers officially you are more than capable of putting together what happened beforehand. I started off with the pursuing the geoglyphs since I prefer the explorative nature of these games and found ~80% of them. I jumped off a sky island (probably to glide towards a shrine) and saw the light dragon. Obviously my gremlin brain wanted to jump on it as I tended to attempt to do for all others I found and I hopped onto its snout and what do I find, the god damn master sword. I instantly was able to piece together what happened, remembering how it is the light dragon that is the first thing you see on the first sky island and the comment Mineru made about the secret stones. And I love how looking back you can see so much foreshadowing for this twist in trailers and the earlier game. It's so well executed and was one of the most amazing moments I've had whilst playing the game. Seeing the quest tick off 'Find Zelda' after reaching the last tear because I'd already claimed the master sword was beyond satisfying.

[@GeneralOlde]

“Find Princess Zelda” doesn’t get marked as completed until after the cutscene in which Link saves her, which makes for even better ludonarrative storytelling; it reaffirms that Link was never going to give up until he got HIS Zelda, the scholarly princess he cares about so much, back, and he didn’t consider his mission accomplished when he learned the truth about the Light Dragon. The game’s use of quest complete notifications really adds to the experience.

[@ceresbane]

Ah yes. Link just points to the sky telling everybody. "See that dragon? We have a home at Hateno with only one bed."

[@jocax188723]

Link “will literally eat rocks” will ABSOLUTELY snarf a secret stone six seconds after getting his hands on one if nobody was there to stop him.

[@VivaLaDnDLogs]

"We need to save it even harder" makes me laugh much more than it should.

[@seangoldman6833]

1:18:20 One of the little visual story details that I really liked going down towards Ganondorf's imprisoned body is that all along the path there is wall after wall after wall that has been blown out from the inside that you are walking through. Someone really tried to keep Ganondorf sealed in and presumably the cyclical release of the malice and Calamity Ganon has forced itself out through that imprisonment.

[@mennorach]

"Take a break from busy running around and stress, spend time, explore and then you have to face reality again." I like the escapism aspect hidden in the game.

[@Gigawolf1]

They say there's not likely to be a sequel, but it's important to remember that Kohga got blown away by a rocket. Clearly that's a hint that we'll ascend to the true home of the Zonai - the moon - in the inevitable 3rd of the 3

[@dizzynarutofan100]

1:03:56 Bro also had INSANE combat prowress though. Canon Link would be able to shred through any combatant even if at a lower power. He can reflect pure energy with a pot lid. He'll find a way.

[@impartialthrone2097]

And the time-slowing ability is canon and other characters notice it happening. It's definitely Link's champion ability, just like Mipha's Grace, Daruk's Protection, etc.

[@doctorwatermelon99]

"yeah so likeee if I fall farther than 2 feet I can pull out a bow, any bow will do, and slow down time to a crawl. it's the fifth element, bow and arrow element"​@@impartialthrone2097

[@templarw20]

Zeltik said it best in his Skyward Sword summary: "An army of monsters against one man. But that one man... was Link."

[@MaxWelton]

24:12 you have enough Zonai DNA to activate the Ouroboros buttons but not enough to be safe from the security robots

[@samreddig8819]

And nobody in Hyrule regonizes you. You literally handpicked the founders if tarrey town in botw but hudson is the only one who recognizes you. When you see bolson (the guy you buy the house you live in from) no spark. Only extremely specific story npcs from botw remember you (and most of the zoras). The devs didn't think things through. Zelda games have always been loosely connected to other games. Thats fine. But it struggles to hold continuity with the game uts a sequel to.

[@CarbonMage]

The buttons see Rauru's arm, the soldier constructs see the everything else 😉

[@Gobeman]

I remember playing this together with my friend. We waited a month and all spoilers bedamned we avoided them. Sitting in the same room with each our screen playing as we adventures in each our own playstyle. And the first big question we had was just "How long time has passed?"

[@bass679]

Hey so fun story about the find Zelda quest. I just started a replay and every time you have a major step in the quest, including the first one, you receive the quest and when you have control returned to you, the light dragon is in your field of view. The first time on the starter island she's literally center frame in the distance.

[@archivist_13]

Damn good observation

[@supercharged5-39]

"find zelda" and there she is

[@slhpproductions6707]

When I figured out that zelda was the light dragon I literally ran around in circles in game just yelling "oh my god my girlfriend is a dragon what do I do what do I do what do I do???" And then found her again in the sky and just sat on her nose for 20 minutes. Its some of the most intense bleed I've ever felt in any game, it was incredibly powerful.

[@MaedayMisfit]

Red basically verbatim describing my emotions as I saw the memories out of order and began to also jave that same sinking suspicion and literally told my best friend, "I know how to rescue zelda and find zelda, BUT HOW DO YOU FIX DRAGON?? I CANT FIX THAT LIKE A KIDNAPPING"

[@easymodegamer501]

I think I may have suspected the Light Dragon=Zelda twist earlier than anyone else I’ve seen play the game. Most people don’t begin to suspect something might be up with that until they start doing the geoglyph quest. However, although I didn’t guess the exact twist immediately, I suspected a connection between the two since the tutorial. A brand new dragon that looks completely different from the original 3 and also has golden hair? It was definitely suspicious.

[@pockyboxes5902]

I definitely had a similar moment on the tutorial island. Prior to the release, I was working on the theory that Rauru was this new dragon because he looked so much like the original 3 from BotW and we'd not gotten a close look at the new one in any of the promotional material. Then, after his ghost greets us outside the Temple of Time, I decided I wanted to get a closer look at this new snakey boi and got as close to the edge near the first shrine as I could and busted out my scope to see what I could see. What I saw was a dragon with golden hair, delicate, crown-like antlers, shining blue spikes, and bright white scales. My immediate thought was, "Huh. That looks a lot like Zelda." And then I remembered the construct that gave us the Purah Pad told us Zelda was waiting at the Temple of Time....y'know, exactly where that dragon was circling. Then it became, "Oh fuck, that's Zelda!"

[@notthis9586]

Hmm an hour and a half of listening to two people put the most positive possible spins on every aspect of the game ❤

[@zachzimmer7459]

I love Artists and storytellers, the way they can make people Fall In Love with their works is amazing. That people can talk and gush over it like this for so long is a blessing.

[@Joel-qo6gt]

That comic is cool, Red. Especially the fact that you used the unspoken nuclear waste warning as the captions, that slaps. Menacing earthworks indeed.

[@swisschris6480]

You totally encapsulated my emotions upon putting together the story of the Light Dragon. When I started putting it together I was originally thinking no way, and looked up the order of the memories so that I could hunt them down and view them properly. But I kept holding out hope that I was wrong, that something else happened or someone else stepped into her place at the last minute. And seeing I was right was like a gut punch. Cause here's this one person we spent so long trying to find and save over the course of... Well lets be honest people, we've been trying to save Zelda for decades now over almost EVERY game. And finding out there was probably no saving her this time, after we've spent much longer getting to know this incarnation, that hurt. I actually had to put the game down for a couple of days. That is masterful story writing there.

[@thecountalucard666]

The isolation of the Depths left me actually *welcoming* the Yiga Clan assassins in disguise. I felt like if I’d been in full control of Link’s speech I’d’ve said something like, “Yeah, yeah, you’re here to kill me and all, but for real, can we have a conversation first?”

[@jakemacmenamin9306]

There's actually atlesst 5 zonai ruins in BOTW since there's the Thundra Plateau where you get the rubber armour, that area also implied that they has some connection to lightning/ weather which ToTK reinforced with the island chain you find Minitu on Edit: where she introduces herself to you would be more accurate

[@samreddig8819]

Miniru is in your pad the whole time. I like to think of the stone mask that starts her quest as a wireless charger.

[@Conformist138]

My theory is the Zonai were a race from another planet and they used the planet for mining and they left because the mines were running dry. Just a basic story of a stronger group showing up, taking what they want, influencing the natives, and then ditching when the resources ran out. It would even go a long way to explain Ganondorf's irritation at the entire Zonai race, despite the fact that most of them were gone by the time he was born. Maybe he saw some sort of "cargo cult" issues after most of the Zonai abandoned Hyrule, and resented the influences of these people who used them for access to minerals deep under ground.

[@LPTheGas]

Maybe the explanation for why the sky islands don't feel like a place people lived is that "a place people live" was a very different thing for the zonai than surface dwellers (and real world humans). Maybe they never built anything like houses, but just... slept on the ground wherever they felt like, under open sky. Seems like the kind of thing nature-spirit-y dragon-goat-people would do.

[@Aktedya1-jt7vw]

Yknow what I love about the Sky conceptually? In Breath Of The Wild, Link/We had to adapt to the rules of the new world he woke up in. Both story wise, and gameplay wise (weapon durability). And while the surface in Tears Of The Kingdom feels a but more familiar and friendly, The Sky feels like OUR domain. Theres no one around, and we're really the only ones who CAN traverse it with our abilities. It's our personal playground to rule over. I just wish there was more/bigger Sky Islands. I'd gladly trade the depths for a fully developed Sky layer for Link to completely conquer

[@eeveestar6826]

Calling it, the next Miscellaneous Myths video will be the next episode of Journey to the West. They always come out in December 👀

[@daisyphinney1038]

eeek! Those are my year end highlights. XD

[@juanp7691]

I think red mentioned in a podcast that she has had all material for December ready for a while just so she can focus on the next journey to the west, so it is coming and i can't wait

[@VictoriaStarratt]

And on the comic’s tumblr she’s shared some done shots!

[@hamstersandwich9917]

Ive found OSP through Jttw with part 3 and ive been following each installement ever since

[@an8strengthkobold360]

I'm glad someone else brought up the anceint aleins thing. Anceint aleins quackery was stuck in the back of my head through the entire tutorial.

[@vianabdullah2837]

Red's enthusiasm is juts infectious in this video.

[@fiasomething]

man. when it comes to mysterious dead civilizations, the balance between saying too much and not saying enough is such a crucial factor. the other post apocalyptic game that i really like is going to get an animated series set before the apocalypse, and i can't even get exited about it because it's gonna ruin the mystery!

[@treynix8871]

I find it very appropriate that the only way to access the same feeling of loneliness and desolation that BotW evoked is to leave the currently rebuilding Hyrule and go the ruins of a long dead civilization. By trying to capture the feelings of the first game, you have to literally be living in the past.

[@yasminceleste3844]

Something to add is the music on all the sky islands really hits that “lost” feeling - I don’t quite know how to describe it but it’s so fitting g and always reminds me that we’re alone in a place that no longer is alive

[@netherillager5959]

35:30 I kinda love how nintendo has to play 'sneaky' with Link and Zelda's relationship, but it's the same kind of sneaky that a child displays when they're hiding behind the curtains, because someone on the high ups is saying that they can't be in an official relationship

[@GentlemanGamer94]

Man, as you both have said so eloquently here, the world of the TOTK is so vast, rich with history and has a beautiful restraint to it that we (or at least, I) rarely see in games. For every question about the Zonai and Hyrule's history we get answered, we get MANY more questions that have no immediate or obvious answer. We have enough information to be able to intuit that there is an answer and that that answer is probably very interesting, but not enough that we can piece it all together. As someone who spends a lot of time on KZbin watching deep dives/retrospectives or on Fandom Wikis reading about stuff, this frustrates me... but I also find it so rad :) Another small thing that I appreciate is that the Divine Beasts, Shrines and Guardians are gone and we don't have a clear explanation as to WHERE they've gone...though we CAN intuit a possible explanation as to where they might have gone. If they were all to be disassembled, possibly to prevent the past from repeating itself if all that dangerous technology were just left lying about, it would've been a huge undertaking that involved many of Hyrule's citizens. And with all the new towers around everywhere and new (?) technology everywhere like the Purah pad existing, to me anyways, it seems to support the idea that the previous towers/guardians/etcetera did not vanish but their materials were instead repurposed. But if that were the case, Link and Zelda certainly would've been involved and helping with that repurposing process, which is why you don't have NPCs giving exposition to Link on this stuff when they would already have known about that stuff. Especially with the much more pressing (to them) issues of Zonai technology falling from the sky, malice infecting everywhere, this cavernous spooky underground area opening up, Zelda being missing, monsters running rampant and the different regions facing different varieties of natural disasters. Of course, it's always possible too that the only reason towers/guardians/divine beasts are gone is the Doylist explanation of "we wanna give players new things to explore and new enemies to face, so the old stuff had to go" and that there's no Watsonian reason whatsoever for it. But the fact that there's just enough there that Watsonian explanations are indeed possible and that the game leaves those explanations to your imagination is so fun to me ... even if there's another part of me which wishes they did have more of these things explicitly explained xD

[@stitchesbunny8496]

Glad I'm not the only one who found that geoglyph early, and got super emotional within the next minutes, and stayed emotional for hours, as my brain pieced it together.

[@bobwayne6100]

Hello OSP, have you guys played Outer Wilds? If you haven't then I would strongly recommend it. Outer Wilds is a combat-free, space exploration, astrophysics game that has an incredibly touching story. It is a game that is an almost magical experience when you don't get any spoilers, much like BotW and TotK. I think a Detail Diatribe or some other video giving your perspective on it would be interesting.

[@RonnieFlare17]

Love this video! Part of the reasons you touch on are part of what I like so much about the lore in From Soft Games. You start out knowing next to nothing about what’s going on, and even when you piece as much of the existing text together as you can there’s still some pretty big gaps. But! You always know enough to have a sense of the themes and the story. Say for example, Elden Ring, when you get down to brass tacks the Shattering War was basically a war of succession (because why would a presumably immortal god Queen who’d sealed away death NEED something as mundane as a designated heir?) There are a lot of gaps but we know the major factions in this war, we know about some battles like the Sieges of the Capital or the Scarlet Bloom in Aeonia.

[@sambellerose620]

@20:13 I feel like this is a parallel to the first two Zelda games. In the first game you're all alone, the only people you find are hiding in caves. In the sequel, you can visit towns and get help from people (who teach you spells and sword skills mostly, but an unused design idea for that game was to have party members that assist you). You saved the current Princess Zelda and by extension the world in the first game, then in the sequel the conflict revolves around a secret hidden in the castle, which happens to be a person who has been stored asleep for ages while history has mostly forgotten them.

[@TooltipTinkerer]

I've been watching trope talks for a while now, but I only recently started listening to these detail diatribes and now I'm finding myself at the end of the playlist. I swear, I could listen to the two of you analyse anything for hours.

[@jaikthesnake6285]

I think Pathologic messed me up because the phrase "immortal dragon" did not make me think of an actual dragon, I thought it was like a metaphor for a ancient being lol

[@mogscugg2639]

Why didn't Simon kain just swallow a secret stone when he got the plague

[@blindbeholder9713]

My first thought was "So that's what Calamity Ganon is"

[@SillyMynabird]

The final heartwarming nail the game drove into me was during the credits, when it shows pictures of all the people Link has joined hands with. From that first initial failure to catch Zelda, to Link finally catching her at the very end. Link was no longer alone. Great video!

[@asterisk4540]

1:00:00 screaming, crying, throwing up I am now cursed with this angst-knowledge forever goddamn TOTK is a good game

[@AubriGryphon]

"Zelda, worm-on-a-string edition" I'm both delighted and furious.

[@Beacuzz]

Hey just noticed Zelda has the full triforce! When she protected Link the full triforce was on her hand!

[@impartialthrone2097]

I wish more people noticed this 😅 And what let her finally unlock it was probably having the "courage" to defend Link rather than always being saved by him, since she already had power and wisdom 😄

[@jewelion5347]

Link in skyward sword has the full mark before taking even a single piece of the triforce, cool, but that's more a mark of being worthy to use the full power of the triforce, rather than having all 3 pieces

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

9:30 I hope Zelda will be recognized by the people for her work. Rare is it that a monarch comes to unite the lands of hyrule, Usually it's Ganondorf killing everyone. rarer still does one bring the nation back from the brink nearly singlehandedly; and I think if anything deserves her Ascendance to Queendom, it's rebuilding her nation nearly from the ground up. It would also make a great stinger moment to have her ceremony be interrupted by whatever Great Evil comes by in game three, only to be completed in the End Credits, possibly with Link being offered the position of King Consort.

[@adamtschupp9825]

my theory is that the zonai came to hyrule to play as gods and left because they got bored of it. only raru and the others stayed because out of all the other zonai, they genuinely cared for the peoples of hyrule

[@floodgame]

One thing i loved about this game is how the ending of the game bookends not just the start of this game, but the whole series itself. At the beginning of Skyward Sword Link, a novice knight, is unable to save his friend in freefall. At the beginning of TOTK Link still can't reach her, but at the end of the game Link, now an experienced knight and accomplished hero, is finally able to catch her and save her from the fall.

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

What a fun way to start off December!

[@stonegardner9380]

Great video! The start of the video was a bit of an eye opener for me. I had the feeling that nothing I did before held over, not that I had done a lot to help. When I looked around and couldn't see the divine beasts, and no one really talked about them or the guardians, I felt like the last game was erased, or we were in a different hyrule. The Guardians were so prevalent and their remains were everywhere, even when they weren't working anymore. And then we go to this game and there was one that I could find, sitting broken atop someone's workshop. That to me took away the feeling of me having done something to help this world. That is why the start of this video is interesting to me, as you seemed to have a completely different experience.