Trope Talk: Timeloops

[@tatersalad76]

**hits "Loop Video"** Reality can be whatever I want

[@seekingsomethingshamanic]

Its all math man- red sensei

[@feha92]

Can it be a cake?

[@cxfxcdude]

@@feha92cake is math? Shrimps is bugs. DOORS IS BRAINS!

[@VagueHandWaving]

Red, I've come to bargain.

[@mallandcall]

KORE WA.... REQUIEM

[@Thiccremoch162]

The perfect April fools joke is to upload this video again with no changes, lmao

[@Queen1001N]

No, it would be better for February 2nd.

[@loorthedarkelf8353]

Or with a very small change that alters the last 2 min wildly 😂

[@jessebridgeman767]

This needs to happen

[@buzzzysin]

Brilliant idea

[@leonstormmaster6133]

​@@loorthedarkelf8353 Or end it with a "WAIT A SECOND"

[@NickHa]

you nailed the most special thing about Outer Wilds' take on time loops - it's KIND. the game confronts you with all of your fears - death, the unknown, the hostility of the universe, the meaningless of life - and gives you only the kindest answers. it's the antidote to time loop nihilism, and perhaps nihilism overall.

[@kadebrockhausen]

Everything matters, and the best step you can take is always the next, and while it's sad if you never get to finish a goal you started on, the work you did was meaningful and worthwhile... That game hit hard

[@jordannoell4222]

I mean positive nihilism is a thing, and arguably what the main progenitor of Nihlism (nietzche) argued for. He also despised nihilism being used as an excuse to be a shitty person.

[@questioninconnu]

it's also create new fear you didn't know you have ! anglerfish, owl, coral !

[@XinyuJiang-h3o]

Exactly!

[@seraslain962]

You're going into the big dangerous System with a 'ship' made of trees and scrap while being kept together by nails and duct tape. Your suit isn't much better. And it's all still fine, because it only needs to work for ~20 minutes. Your ship is plenty reliable enough for all the exploration you could do. Your suit is reliable enough to take a lot of damage, and if things go wrong you'll find it working perfectly fine later.

[@AjaxStarSheep]

Personally I think my favorite example of a “time loop” isn’t even onscreen, but it’s Flowey in Undertale. He has the power to reset the world before the player arrives and discovers every single piece of “dialogue” and every possible action. He literally replays the game so many times that he realizes the exact thing you talk about at the beginning

[@fadingsolstice]

You might like the game "in stars and time" I don't want to spoil too much but it's a timeloop pixelated rpg game, I'd recommend atleast looking at the trailer.

[@asprinjuice425]

@@fadingsolsticeit was mentioned in the video actually

[@fadingsolstice]

@@asprinjuice425 ...I knew that. I didn't fall asleep half way through the video or anything... (thanks for telling me)

[@cloverlovania]

my favourite and most personally memorable line from him relates to his timeloop: "I've done everything this world has to offer. I've read every book. I've burned every book. I've won every game. I've lost every game. I've appeased everyone. I've killed everyone. *Sets of numbers... Lines of dialogue... I've seen them all.* But you... YOU'RE different."

[@themostop6142]

I also love how Flowey reacts to the Player and their ability to overpower him. At first he thinks he’s still more powerful so this is just a fun new variable, something he hasn’t had in a while. But his excitement eventually turns into fear when he realizes he isn’t in control anymore and that he’s about to actually face some consequences for the first time. (Particularly in Genocide)

[@purplehaze2358]

I feel morally obligated to bring up the visual novel Slay the Princess as like, a _peak_ example of this trope.

[@ChrisKawula-wo1rq]

Great choice! Still yet to play though but the story is really interesting. I'd recommend Alan Wake 2, it's been the best time loop game I've played in a while. 14:04 for what AW2 is like.

[@sev1120]

​@@ChrisKawula-wo1rq It's not a loop, it's a spiral...

[@coffeewolfproductions9113]

I also love STP but I feel like each loop is just different enough (and the protagonist gets amnesia enough) that the effects of timeloop fatigue only really set in with chapter one or if you're some kind of crazy person that decided to 100% the game. The only one who gets timeloop fatigue regularly in the game is Voice of the Hero poor thang.

[@kokirij0167]

It's interesting you bring up StP since it's technically a bunch of smaller time loops rolled into one timeline.

[@gabrote42]

I prefer In Stars and Time but STP is a good game

[@masterstyx2877]

One of the kinda sub-tropes I enjoy with a timeloop is when it turns out theres another looper, like a character on like loop 30 suddenly sees things going differently even though nothing he's done should have led to that, and the slow realization that the MC has that they're not alone, since theres so many ways that can be used, horror, new companionship, suspense ect, just always fun to see.

[@bluesbest1]

Flowey

[@theradionicrevival8068]

BOy, is there a game for you~

[@puphafishprime]

Worth reading Mother of Learning for a well-executed version of that dynamic

[@lerualnaej5917]

Ironically, one of the most interesting time loop stories I've ever encountered was Naruto fanfic that tied the looping to a specific ninja power that characters could be taught to use. There was a section where two characters deliberately looped together in order to be together, and then something happened and one character reset completely and the main character didn't and was 100% alone again. Devastating.

[@ack7]

Man you’ll love Gabbro if you ever play Outer Wilds

[@Truck-kun11]

Imagine how comically sad it would be if a character left the Loop right in the middle of the "Screw the consequences, I'm going to cause chaos" period of his journey only to wake up the next day having to deal with the consequences of everything he did thinking the day would restart.

[@FaelumbreProject]

Well, let's just say one of the media mentioned here does just that

[@BFedie518]

The fear of that would keep me relatively "restrained" if I got caught in a time loop. At least for a while. I might have stopped caring by loop 60,497.

[@Excelsior1937]

ISAT SPOILERS It’s not exactly the same, but ISaT does kinda have this. Midway through the game we get the best version of events, where Siffrin does all the “friend quests”, helping all the other party members before the big day, and gets closer to them as his actions prompt them to share more of themselves with him. Siffrin realizes these are the versions of their friends they want to leave the loop with aaaaaand that all gets reset too, which really kicks off the big downward spiral. Then when Siffrin’s trying to do the friends quests again to get the stat bonuses for them for their last ditch effort to break the loop, and he ends up snapping at all of them and alienating them instead, that ends up being the version of events he has to live with

[@BrewerM23]

There's a point in "How To Become The Dark Lord And Die Trying" that's sorta like this. I won't give details, because spoilers, but it really hits the existential dread button really well too. well, ok, spoilers... ... .... ..... ..... So, the premise of the book is that this girl has been Isekai'd to save this kingdom from the dark lord. Every time she dies, she loops back to the moment she arrived in this world. She's been trying to defeat various dark lords and stuff for around a thousand years and nothing has worked. So, she finally went "fuck it, next run I'm the Dark Lord" Three months into that run, she finally dies....and time just reverts a couple days. And she basically has a nervous breakdown at the thought that her actions have *actual consequences* now.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

Oh buddy is there a game for yoy

[@SolaAesir]

One aspect of time loops that I've only ever seen in The Mother of Learning is that the only reasonable response to a time loop, after you've finished freaking out, is the focused and directed accumulation of knowledge. Knowledge is the only thing you can carry from one loop to another. Spend your time reading every non-fiction book ever made, teach yourself every field from textbooks and online courses, relax by reading every work of fiction and watching every movie you never got around to seeing. Only after absorbing all of the world's knowledge do you really start to worry about doing whatever you need to to break out of the loop. Infinite time to learn is a priceless gift that will set you up for life afterward and make doing whatever you need to do to get out of the loop significantly easier.

[@pinupskigaming5026]

ctrl-f: mother of learning - ok good someone covered it. MoL is fucking goated.

[@TourFaint]

Another good thing is that the world in MoL is accesible and vast. It's not a short, self contained loop where the character has a limited time so he can't really travel. He could easily just go anywhere in search for anything if he thinks it can help, so the loop doesn't feel as videogamey because he doesn't easily hit those limits of what can reasonably be done during a loop.

[@Carosbee]

I think the film Palm Springs also does that.

[@DEMONOFLOVEANDDEATH]

Mother of Learning is a great one

[@HadleyCanine]

Because I am a walking stereotype, I am going to segue back into into Outer Wilds, and say that the accumulation of knowledge is something that Outer Wilds does pretty well, too. The entire game is basically advanced only by accumulating knowledge as the player, as you learn about where the Nomai came from, where they went, what every single relic they left behind does and what it was there for. Just... find absolutely everything there is in the solar system to be found, to study it, to extract every single bit of information you can. And then, when there's nothing left in the universe for you to learn from? That's when it becomes time to move on, to end the loop, and finally see what happens next.

[@andrewcapra7153]

13:50 Rita's name in the movie is definitely not a reference to Groundhog day, since it's just reusing her name from the book All You Need Is Kill that Edge of Tomorrow is an adaptation of. However, there is a chance for a way, way funnier headcanon, because in the novel, Rita isn't her birth name, it's the name of the woman who she made a fake ID of to enlist in the military despite being underage, and her hometown happens to be in Illinois, just like the setting of Groundhog day. So potentially, Rita from GD is the victim of identity theft and the person who stole it became a timelooping international war hero under her name and social security number.

[@charleston1789]

That is spectacular

[@אניבאמתיהודי]

Err... The book was written after Groundhog day was out for a decade, as is pretty directly inspired by it. So... Not necessarily unrelated.

[@thanetothefalseking332]

GD’s setting is Pennsylvania

[@Djorgal]

It's speculation how inspired by it is. The author mentioned in interviews being inspired by video games and their repetitive nature, but he never mentioned Groundhog Day which isn't as big in Japan as it is in the US.

[@the_luckiest_charm]

​@@thanetothefalseking332yes, but Rita is from Illinois

[@MussolMoix]

On my play-through of Outer Wilds, after having a conversation with a certain character I was so stricken with grief that I spent a loop in the home town just interacting with the characters there, no adventures, no exploring just calm and friends. Also when red said the main character has no character development or strong opinions about the loops , my reaction was "yes the do!" but then I realized I was thinking about my own developing feelings about the characters and the universe xD

[@leithaziz2716]

The ending of that game legit made me cry for a whole day. When I was experiencing depression a few months later, the OST of that game invigorated some life back into me.

[@rmsgrey]

@@leithaziz2716 I was watching some random KZbin video on New Year's Eve a year or two back, and the video started playing the Travellers' Theme moments before the fireworks started outside, which seemed strangely fitting.

[@authorlynndavis]

I don't think I've ever played a game that immerses you quite like Outer Wilds does.

[@hotpocketsat2am]

rip chert

[@donovanbisson4988]

Have Red/Blue actually played Outer Wilds? I've been wondering for a while now. Edit: finished video let's goooo

[@Olivia-pj9wy]

“a fictional story can never be deeper than a particularly well-decorated swimming pool” “In a world without consequences, it costs absolutely nothing for you to be kind to yourself” both hit so hard

[@ethanbodin7083]

Remember the universe is , and we are

[@doornumb]

✍️🔥

[@bugjams]

Reminds me of the quote from Night in the Woods, "I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people who do."

[@mayyonness]

I clicked on this video thinking "Huh! Time loop trope talk in the week of ISAT's anniversary! Wouldn't it be funny if red talks about ISAT?" 16:56 THE SCREAM I SCREAMT WHEN I REALIZED THIS VIDEO ACTUALLY TALKS ABOUT ISAT. I never thought I'd see the day Siffrin appears on OSP??? THIS MEANS SO MUCH TO ME AHHH

[@enderfox8423]

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[@chipsleftwing]

siffim my beloved

[@masterspoiler2367]

The fact that you made a Time Loop video, specifically went out of your way to cite video game examples, and then avoided Undertale and Majora's Mask entirely is amazing and commendable. 10/10 would watch this video again and again and again and

[@violeth2255]

Majora's mask is a very weird time loop in that it isn't a perfect loop each time. Most of it is, but you specifically don't have to defeat all of the temple bosses and thus free all of the giants in one 3-day cycle. Once you free each one, they stay freed no matter how many loops you do. The time loop is incomplete. Undertale, on the other hand, is only a time loop as long as the player makes it one and thus all of the time loop tropes aren't as prominent to the player. Outside of particular fights, you usually forced (by difficulty) to loop and try again. The other 2 characters that remember the loops, however, experience the tropes and shove their perspective of them back in the player's face (one character much more frequently than the other). But because they aren't the perspective character for the player, it is ironically not the best example to elucidate the tropes of time loops.

[@spencereades]

It would be like, oh idk, making a Trope Talks video about magical wizarding schools and deliberately not including... you know, that one. She Who Must Not Be Named.

[@masterspoiler2367]

@@spencereades I mean you kind of just gave a really good reason for why it wouldn't be mentioned

[@josepharchuleta9809]

you ever read "SSS-Class Suicide Hunter? that is beautiful in its storytelling.

[@handgun559]

"I played Outer Wilds for this!" And the Zelda fans noticed. tsk tsk.

[@charles_himmel]

I haven't seen anyone mentioning this, but The Stanley Parable also counts as a time loop as a built in plot device. The museum/curator ending especially calls this out, the curator literally says that death stops mattering if the game just restarts and tells the player that they can only win by not playing. You have the option to stop the time loop, consequence free (it's not like the Narrator is gonna jump out of the computer screen or something), but most players continue playing for the sake of playing. Idk how relevant this is, I just really like TSP and I feel like there's a connection here

[@caltheuntitled8021]

I think the second narrator was saying that death is meaningless because you can’t make any novel choice in the game. No matter what you pick, whether you go through the left door or the right, the developers already accounted for you making that decision long before you made it. There are some aspects of a time loop in the confusion ending, the zending, and, to some extent, the real person ending, but the museum ending explores a different topic.

[@cheshirecatstuffs4944]

Yesss I was hoping someone would mention The Stanley Parable!

[@stevejakab274]

charles_himmel watched Red of Overly Sarcastic Productions talk about time loops, and thought about The Stanley Parable. They wrote a paragraph about it and added it to the comments section of the video.

[@Shadowonwater]

Yeah I was thinking about TSP too, and how it relates to this trope It can also really be interesting seeing fanfic explore this aspect of the game and ask how does Stanly feel about being in a loop.

[@TetsuShima]

That timeloop "The Batman" episode is truly one of the most underrated caped crusader's stories. The day was saved, not because of Bruce, but because of the good side of the "villain"

[@matthewmuir8884]

That really was a great episode. The villain rewinding all the way back to the moment before they committed their original crime and choosing not to commit it this time was an amazing moment.

[@butterknife1066]

I remember that episode being shockingly messed up. Like, yeah it gets undone, but you see EVERYONE, including the kids, die onscreen! And then it just cuts back to another universe where none of it ever happened and it’s unsettling to realize that such an understated villain could just win and completely destroy the family friendly premise of the show.

[@leithaziz2716]

Yes, it's so good! Really underrated show. It puts a fun spin on a lot of the mythos and explores different aspects of characters than what's the the norm. Sure, sometimes it's not for the best (Mr Freeze), but other times it's really compelling (Clayface). I think my favorite aspect was seeing a version of Bruce that's all things considered pretty healthy and is just doing his best to help the city. Batman *is* the mask this time and Bruce is the real identity. It's fun seeing him slowly grow over the show to forming a family and then becoming a member of the League.

[@Saiyanking72]

The Batman? The 2D one with the sleek design?

[@firebunnylover3108]

That was my first time loop exposure and ooof

[@TheFirstAifos]

In Stars and Time is probably my favorite time loop, and I’m so happy to see it mentioned here. The last loop in particular was so heartbreaking. :(

[@Onefishygal]

so real, I get flash backs whenever i see the word blinding now

[@plantinapot9169]

Yessssss

[@Theoriginalautismer7790]

SAME

[@Theoriginalautismer7790]

Indeed Also

[@Theoriginalautismer7790]

Soon Ivory may join

[@000Dragon50000]

The fun thing about Homura Akemi's looping: She actually has a whole month to work with, as shown in the episode where she's averting potential encounters between Madoka and Kyubei. The events of the anime only cover that last week because she's been able to perfectly manipulate the first few weeks from afar, but this last one has too many variables to get to this point so she always inevitably butterfly effects herself into failing because of her changes earlier in the month.

[@0th_Law]

Well, the anime mainly takes place over a bit over a month (March 25th to May 1st). Homura's loops start 9 days before she transfers in.

[@kittyshippercavegirl]

Madoka Magica is so excellent, I need to watch it again

[@yourlocalfemboywastaken]

madoka magika was so yuri i loved it when I was too young to watch it

[@Archgeek0]

A month she also spends securing quite the arsenal of military hardware for use against ol' Walrus Night. I wonder if she spent a loop in the JSDF to find out where they kept the fun toys.

[@pedroscoponi4905]

I love that the looping in madoka does have one persistent change that affects all future loops, but it's almost completely impossible to detect until it comes up.

[@Cuddlebear6285]

That opening section about videos games in the context of the video is EXTREMELY FUNNY when you think about games like NieR: Automata / NieR: Replicant that are meant to be played several times just to play it properly the first time. It's not even a full singular playthrough until you do that.

[@ScorbunGame]

Those games DELIBERATELY hide info about what's really going on from the player and use the limited scope of the game world to punch you in the gut. No matter how much you explore, no matter how much you play, you can't save these characters from their horrible fates.

[@Bighomie39]

​@ScorbunGame isn't Ending E of Automata good though?

[@topcatfan]

​@@ScorbunGameWHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE LIKE THAT? /Gen

[@matthewmuir8884]

I found it funny that footage of Tears of the Kingdom was used in the opening section; I immediately thought, "...Not the Zelda game I expected to see referenced in a video about time loops", as Majora's Mask quite famously revolves around a three-day time loop.

[@Ghosti...]

​@@topcatfan Emotional catharsis, sometimes someone just needs a dose of a wonderfully written emotional gut punch.

[@LordRavensong]

Red trying so hard to avoid the Supernatural Timeloop episode while talking about the horror side of this trope is so perfect

[@broEye1]

Yet, unless I somehow blacked out, I don't think she talked about the "solve the mystery and survive" time loop type. Like Happy Death Day or my favorite time loop, Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni (the original, Gou can go screw itself, it hit all the downsides of sequels mentioned oh so long ago).

[@keyblademasterclark]

RISE AND SHINE, SAMMY

[@Darbster]

​@@keyblademasterclark *"In The Heat Of The Moment" starts playing...

[@keyblademasterclark]

@@Darbster Tuesday! Pig and a poke!

[@coffeewolfproductions9113]

​@@broEye1 I think that would fall under the "figure out a goal/challenge" version of stopping the timeloop, its just that the goal in those scenarios arent fighting anything they're solving or surviving something.

[@flaket2869]

Also worth mentioning the visual novel/anime Steins;Gate, which directly inspired Outer Wilds. A fantastic combination of time travel and time loops.

[@megadunsparce3672]

It’s also a good contrast where technically he’s choosing to go into the time loops all to save his childhood friend

[@jamoz42]

Great show time loop wise, but warning to watchers for the random transphobia.

[@Spyblox007]

@@jamoz42 I mean given it is Japanese and made in 2010, the amount of transphobia is remarkably low if you could consider it transphobic at all. The characters are likely less transphobic than actual Japanese people from 2010. I'd be more concerned about the lack of respect for privacy/physical boundaries the main character has when it comes to his companions. Still one of my favorite anime of all time

[@Re_V]

@@jamoz42 grow up

[@blastimbre]

@@jamoz42 Lord, if someone is offended by Okabe making jokes about a very feminine male character a couple times, they have more important issues to handle.

[@timothymclean]

I'd like to recommend _Mother of Learning,_ my personal favorite time loop story. Turns out, a monthlong time loop allows for a lot of shenanigans that a shorter time loop couldn't, while still being short enough to be manageable. It also feels like it tried to think of everything you could do with a time loop, which is really neat. But I can't describe any of that without spoiling major plot points, so go read it.

[@Phoenixmage50]

Mother of learning is so good

[@magical_mage0]

I loved this story and can greatly recommend it. It has been at the top of the Completed section of Royal Road since it was finished.

[@tefnutofhoney2832]

me and my spouse listened to that one during car rides a while. I got spoilerer to a twist that ruined it for me, SPOILERS ... I dont know how long it has to be for "read more" ... The death of the aranea and that they were dead forever despite it being a time loop kinda killed my enthusiasm.

[@clawgerber1992]

​@tefnutofhoney2832 Yeah, that also gave me a kick. And to say it in the most non-spoiler way I can, keep reading if you haven't, you'll see why.

[@Paperbag34]

Mother Of Learning mention! It's so good!

[@damprat141]

My personal favorite "time loop" has to be slay the princess. While for lore reasons its not actually a time loop, the general play feature is very much dependent on looping through events. Its such a good story and ganre deconstruction in so many ways. Absolutely love it if you are a fan of Eldritch/body horror thats also a love story and existential nightmare

[@archivist_13]

Slay The Princess mention let's fucking go

[@varia2354]

Love and appreciate that game. I should look into Pristine Cut things.

[@oni-linkle4880]

I love both games in the monochromatic timeloop bundle on steam

[@Moonstar79]

I was just thinking about this too lol, I watched the Markiplier playthrough of it last week and I gotta say, the timeloop in that game really allows Slay the Princess to be a story that is so simultaneously horror and romance in a way nothing else is.

[@damprat141]

@@varia2354 it's very good, really adds onto the base game

[@Zo3yX]

Dormammu i've come to bargain.

[@ajaxmaye2520]

Dormammu! I've come to bargain

[@grandcato3612]

Dormammu i've come to bargain.

[@ugoeze7360]

Dormammu, I’ve come to bar… *impaled by multiple pointy ends*

[@Silverman160Zero]

Dormammu, I've come to bargain. *struck by a meteor.*

[@cartoonkitteh]

Dormammu! I bargain to come.

[@matthewspencer2094]

The best part of a time loop, especially in games is seeing how the loop reveals the people unaware of the loop. That antagonist you hate, you'll eventually see his redeeming side.. you go back to his loop state but now you view him with empathy. That shrew? She's anxious and has good reason to be. She's sympathetic. Everyone becomes the hero not just in their own story, but somewhat in your own. And many heros become more nuanced and lose their two dimensional shine. The slow growth of humanity in our protagonist as people shift from props to people in his internal world reflects our slow epicanthic discovery. Sure the mechanical limitations become more exposed but so does the depth of character weighting. I'm looking at you LoZ: MM

[@VJ-Vice]

“The time loop is like a crucible for character development for the looping character” *Subaru from Re Zero sweating bullets*

[@torinsmith9867]

Suffering builds character -> Suffering builds character -> Suffering builds character -> Suffering builds character -> suf

[@jcorpac]

Didn't Re Zero also have a storyline where Subaru had to experience the consequences of all his resets and watch his friends either mourning his death or quickly being the next ones to die.

[@Turtlewax63]

@@jcorpac There's a scene where someone who read his mind shows him those, but she had no idea whether they really happened or not since she doesn't know how the power works, if it rewinds or creates a new timeline. Just that it's a possibility he's repeatedly left his friends to suffer.

[@themidnightbanshee5927]

​@@jcorpacthis is from season 2 the witches trial "behold the unthinkable present"

[@josepharchuleta9809]

@@torinsmith9867 you ever read "SSS-Class Suicide Hunter? that is beautiful in its storytelling.

[@divineroc]

ISAT mentioned. Remembers the helping your companions quests. Cries.

[@clottedscream]

i literally saw this video pop up and was like "Oh, red just played ISAT didnt she"

[@ek0dev]

ISAT YIPPEEE it's so exciting to see a bigger channel talking about it

[@IgnisAstrorum]

@@clottedscream of course I see you here too lol

[@Dirty0o0Jester]

I saw, I watched, I shrieking Crab

[@greenhydra10]

Knew people would mention it in the comments. Did NOT expect Red to mention it.

[@Nirlo]

“Sometimes the unknown kills you, but it can’t kill you forever. And you always learn something from it.” That is a beautiful quote out of context and hilarious in context.

[@gigabyte2248]

In a weird, kind of oblique way, I have kinda experienced a time loop. I went to university in 2010 and stayed there until 2022. Undergrad, then postgrad, the postdoc researcher. In that time, a lot of things in my life changed - I stopped having assignments, my friends left and moved away, I started getting paid an almost-decent wage, I went from being a student to a researcher - but a lot of things stayed the same. Every October, a load of new students would show up, as cute and lost as ever. Every December, campus shut down for the only time in the whole year. In July, there were students in robes everywhere for graduation. And I, perhaps foolishly, stayed involved in the university's music societies. October: a new band has to find its feet. November: the band settles in and plays in a contest. December: we go out carolling. February: the big contest. May: the leavers' concert. The faces changed, the details changed, but the roles and events stayed the same. By the time I left in 2022, I did feel like I'd been trapped in a time loop and needed to escape. Awkwardly, I managed to stay away for a sum total of 7 months before I took a job on the university's science park. But I'd somehow managed to make it feel different. Now I'm back in the same office and lab as I did my PhD and postdoc in, this time as the lab manager. When it starts to feel like I'm back in a time loop, I'll let you know...

[@deedeefl0wers135]

Love that for the time loop video you use the “I do not have a cactus” meme from “The Good Place”, a show that (among other things) tackles morality and the consequences of one’s actions through multiple time loops.

[@Adam-ds1ik]

Multiple time Jeremy Bearimy's*

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

The perfect video to loop.

[@thehayze259]

Weirdly I think Undertale has one of the best time loops in modern media. It goes at the concept from a pretty unique angle - instead of being trapped in one, you CONTROL the time loop, and what is moral in the game is largely determined by how you decide to use your abilities. It turns the what you do in the dark stuff up to eleven - even once you get the good ending, your powers still remain, so you can still reset the whole world. This is what makes Sans so unironically interesting as a character: He's a complete nihilist, because he's one of only three people in the entire game who is aware of the resets, and the only one of the three who has never had the power to control them. He has scientific proof that everything he does is completely meaningless, as it will only be reset, so he decides to live his immortal life as a depressed slob who doesn't take anything seriously. It's only when the player is going to straight up destroy the world that he gets off his butt to do something.

[@elytraman1809]

It’s been years since I left the undertale fandom, but holy cow I just realized that sans is the only guy who’s never had control while being aware. I know I should’ve picked up on that but I’m stupid

[@Speed001]

And many monsters have a form of Deja Vu. So your actions are still "in the dark", but the world is never quite the same.

[@darkphoenix1677]

And what a "something" he does.

[@charcharmunr]

Even then, despite all his pessimism, Sans DOES actually get surprisingly hopeful in the full pacifist run. You can tell on some level he's still worried it'll just reset anyway, but maybe, just maybe it'll continue on.

[@COOLERthenU]

I think sans is less a pessimist and more an absurdist who dosent wanna excert himself of he knows he essintly have infinte time one his hands Witch is why he kicks your ass when you do genocide because his time starts running short

[@La_cabine_de_Cabine]

There is one edit someone made of Re:Zero where only the non loop canon timeline is shown on screen, and the main character looks absolutely DERANGED, you quickly understand why the supporting cast us quick to distrust him despite the insane length he went to for them, the disconnect is fascinating to see, and it's most interesting here since there are multiple loops back to back That kind of edit wouldn't work on Groundhog day or Edge of Tomorrow since there is only 1 loop

[@Mushroom_Man]

Undertale is one of the best examples of video-game timeloop narratives thanks to the character of flowey. Flowey is, essentially, a metaphor for the player. Until we showed up he was the one in the timeloop, and serves as a worst-case-scenario of what would happen to someone if they were stuck in a timeloop for an unprecedented amount of time, not helped by the fact that him lacking a soul means he cannot feel empathy for the people he used to (a handy metaphor for the fundamental detachment a player will always feel towards video game characters no matter how well written or immersive they are.) Flowey has, in his own words, experienced every possible variation of every possible interaction available to him countless times. All that’s left for him is to see how he can break the world in every way possible. He’s a fascinating character, especially considering what we learn about him throughout the game and who he used to be.

[@bluesbest1]

Considering what the player character becomes on a No Mercy route, it's probably for the best that Flowey doesn't have a soul.

[@thewaterdragonfr2561]

The No Mercy route also proves flowey entirely right. Most people don't do it the first time they play, but after having seen everything else and getting bored or wanting more. Both what the loop has done to flowey and what the game does to the player would have been such great examples for this video. Honestly surprised it wasn't mentionned more.

[@thewaterdragonfr2561]

Also, yes I did come in the comments just to see if anyone had mentionned Undertale yet, how can you tell ?

[@MrPerson-zi9oc]

I just wrote a very similar comment before finding this one. Couldn’t agree more!

[@aidansroadams5328]

I was also thinking about Flowey

[@NurmYokai]

"time loops are one of those tropes that fully cannot happen in real life" Was very entertaining the first hundred times ...

[@MrSamwise25]

Great comment! See you in the next loop...

[@normal6483]

What a crazy video to watch after starting/binging Re: Zero. As someone who normally is not the target audience of those isekai fantasy adventure anime, Re: Zero really knows how to pull at your heart strings with that time loop tragedy. Interestingly, it's unique out of time loop stories because every time the hero breaks out of a time loop, he immediately enters into a different time loop. He has no control over how he breaks out - he resets every time he dies, and (usually) he isn't doing that on purpose. But if he manages to survive an encounter, usually via character growth, he's rewarded by moving forward only to be met with a new insurmountable challenge that will kill him over and over again once more. It's great as both an inevitable tragedy and a story about hope against impossible odds, so it scratches all sorts of time loop itches.

[@SiilanPies]

Re:Zero is really unsettling in the way of something happening when Subaru hasn't died for a while. Like, shit's going down, but Subaru hasn't died, and now you're not sure where the checkpoint is. It's possible that the checkpoint updated to a spot after some horrible shit happened, making those consequences permanent.

[@Reydriel]

@@SiilanPies Re:Zero got that single autosave slot only horror

[@analienmango8756]

The thing about Subaru is that to everyone else in the story, he seems like an individual with a near-divine level of premonition, while to himself, he's a bumbling idiot who can only figure things out by dying in multiple ways very horribly. It creates a very interesting dynamic where all the people he's made friends with have extremely high trust in him, which essentially forces him against his will to become an extremely outgoing and competent leader unless he wants to repeat the season 1 capital arc.

[@gabrote42]

​@@analienmango8756 I wonder... could make an essay about how Overlord and Re:Zero handle the same concept in different ways. Would have tonread both light novels first though

[@TheCBoysDotCom]

You should read ORV next :)

[@Anemoi_1]

The fact that you made a time loop video without even mentioning Re:Zero is absolutely criminal

[@Patch-lz9yi]

Oh, this is going to be great for my recent In Stars and Time obsession

[@bio9leader60]

Recent? I've been obsessed with ISAT for a year. The obsession does not end. It only loops.

[@squidneyyg]

wake up, siffrin, you’ve got a country to save

[@nightwalker9875]

Stardust, it is not an obsession if it is right~

[@bookfan1239]

Same! Just finished the game last week, eating this up

[@epicacia1782]

I know that it’s a common phrase, but just seeing “This is fine.” Will never stop giving me visions of Sif in my head.

[@Max.Paprika]

A Trope Talk video that discusses the immersion paradox, limitations of infinite-play games, and a very specific kind of time manipulation! This has to be the most personally applicable video ever. As someone who just published a very non-infinite narrative game about time manipulation and repeating moments (though not technically time loops), I'm absolutely here for this one.

[@Lucky_Charm22]

What is the name of the game you published?

[@adora_was_taken]

commenting to second that, i _love_ this type of game and i'm super curious about your game

[@EMLtheViewer]

Please do tell 👀

[@michaelklassen777]

What is it if not technically timeloops?

[@EMLtheViewer]

@@michaelklassen777 Maybe clones repeating your actions? I wish they would tell more about their game.

[@puffyhowler615]

A really interesting take on "time" loops I just recently read was There Is No Antimemetics Division on the SCP wiki. The Antimemetics stories don't have any actual time loops, but are instead based on memory loops. Instead of time looping; the world resetting; and the characters developing, the characters' memories are wiped; their knowledge is reset; but the world develops. There are lots of stories about characters having a really shitty first day, until they realize it is most certainly Not their first day. They learn about a horrifying new monster, which isn't new at all, and they've learned about multiple times.

[@000Krim]

What do you mean antimemetics? Do you mean the memetics division? There is not antimemetic division

[@deparinge]

Something something Eternal Sunshine

[@oak8594]

Higurashi When They Cry and The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask are my favorite time loop stories. Really loved a bit in the later series of Higurashi where a villain utilizes the time loop mechanic, which is resetting/replaying SEVERAL YEARS and also requires them to kill themselves to activate it, over and over again just to brute force the password of a briefcase.

[@pootsydoodle2326]

Always liked Pratchett’s little use of this in Thief of Time with the yetis naturally able to store up their own time so they can rewind if they happen to die. A great way of envisioning in-world saving your progress.

[@CornerGuy]

Someone else has probably said it, but the film Edge of Tomorrow is *lightly* based on the book "All you need is Kill", a Japanese novel about a soldier in a time loop. The broad strokes and some of the terms and character names have been used from the books but the actual details are mostly totally different. I would recommend All you need is Kill as a book (its been translated, I found it at my local library) if you are down for a much more grim timeloop of a character falling into despair from his situation. If you dont have the time there was also a short run Manga of the same name. Recommendation over, and thank you for the video.

[@corvess6207]

I just commented this myself then decided to read other comments, poor order of operations on my end lol. One of my favorite fun facts to pull out when the movie gets brought up.

[@vdate]

Can we also just pause to appreciate how good a title 'All You Need Is Kill' is? Yes, it's not grammatically correct - and yet, I don't care! And I'm the most pedantic man I know!

[@jlin592]

​@@vdate i love that title; it just grabs you immediately. Read the manga recently and it's a really succinct way of summarizing everything that happens

[@josepharchuleta9809]

you ever read "SSS-Class Suicide Hunter? that is beautiful in its storytelling.

[@xahtep2747]

I am glad someone else brought this up the ending is way more poignant in All you need is Kill, it truly my preferred version of the story.

[@Stilluetto]

One of the most horrifying time loops I’ve ever seen in media is no joke from Adventure Time in The Hall of Egress episode. The way they capture the indescribable amounts time passing for Finn in just 11 minutes is haunting

[@Jackson-ub1uv]

Someone clearly hasn't watched Heaven Sent, as that has the Doctor go through a physical loop of being trapped in a constantly resetting castle and hunted down by what is basically the concept of death (ever-approaching, never faltering, and will always catch up to you if you rest for just a bit too long), and he does this loop of dying-and-resetting for _4.5 billion years_ and remembers every second of it.

[@000Krim]

True

[@matthewreed8858]

I was looking for someone bringing Hall of Egress

[@runicslay3r]

I feel like The Perfect Run webnovel does the loops really well it also shows how the power of looping time affects how ones mental state changes..

[@temphlosion3950]

I think Bites The Dust from JoJo is a really good timeloop because it presents a really great mystery of both what is going on, and how Hayato can solve the time loop before Kira wins and the heroes die.

[@jonathonsmith4592]

Plus it's a time loop with consequences. Every loop Hayato is killing a new character. So he only has so many loops to figure a way out

[@mallandcall]

Then there's Diavolo whos stuck dying over and over again

[@josepharchuleta9809]

you ever read "SSS-Class Suicide Hunter? that is beautiful in its storytelling.

[@themythosarchives7520]

Can’t believe I didn’t think of that. It’s a loop that he doesn’t really control and people could die if Hayato doesn’t do something.

[@iantaakalla8180]

And furthermore, because of the exact things Hayato does before figuring out the solution, he utterly screws Kira over. Basically, Bites The Dust is supposed to activate whenever somebody mentions Yoshikage Kira, but because Rohan Kishibe skipped asking Hayato and just read about Yoshikage Kira from Hayato’s memories from Heaven’s Door, and because Bites the Dust looks like Killer Queen which is identifiable as Yoshikage Kira’s stand, and because both events were technically one after the other, Kira thinks that Hayato has told Josuke’s group in general that Kosaku Kawajiri is Kira, and Hayato forces Kira to reveal it to Josuke, Okuyasu, and Koichi and cancel Bites The Dust just before Rohan died from Bites the Dust. Basically, by Kira ensuring his own victory, he also ensured his own defeat by making it so that Kira has done the work in past things so Hayato knows Kira will get cocky.

[@Nasser851000]

🎵Let's do the Timeloop again! 🎵

[@jordanloux3883]

IT'S JUST A JUMP TO THE LEFT!

[@legomaniac213]

"It's just a jump to the left..."

[@hadriandwyer2191]

"AND A STEP TO THE RI-I-IIIIGHT!"

[@absoul112]

“Put your hands on your hips”

[@blueditto4447]

“AND PULL YOUR KNEES IN TIGHT”

[@reachthroughreality]

The best timeloop was The Doctor slowly chipping away at a 900ft thick solid diamond wall with his bare hands, one bloody broken knuckle at a time, until he finally breaks through 14 billion years later. But that was a steady stream of clones, so not technically a timeloop. That made him figure it out each time too, and being stuck in a loop without immediately realizing it is kinda terrifying.

[@Jackson-ub1uv]

It was 4.5 billion years, but yes.

[@Stray7]

I can’t keep doing this. I can’t, I can’t always do this. It’s not fair! Clara, it’s just not fair! Why can’t I just lose! But I can remember, Clara. You don’t understand. I can remember it all. Every time. And you’ll still be gone. Whatever I do, you still won’t be there.

[@Ixarus6713]

The best Doctor Who episode. ❤️

[@jakebaugh3130]

I was watching to hope that Red would reference Heaven Sent!

[@sinisternorimaki]

That's one hell of a bird.

[@RavenWolffe77]

An honorable mention is the shoestring-budget masterpiece that is Moon (2009). It's not a timeloop whatsoever. It is, in fact, the mechanical *polar opposite* of a timeloop plot. Yet despite that, it explores the same existential dread and general plot structure, but in *reverse;* Because it's not actually a timeloop whatsoever, the main character doesn't retain knowledge between "loops." However, because it's not a timeloop, the physical evidence of past "loops" is *persistent.* The plot is basically if you took a side character of a normal timeloop plot, and made the entire movie about them piecing together they're in a loop from context clues and "artifacting" left by past loops.

[@vanoki6978]

~Starts talking about time loop video games~ “wow I wonder if red played isat”

[@xenocross6597]

Hmmmm

[@Retiarius2]

At least as of the Summer Megastream, she just watched the JelloApocalypse playthrough like the rest of us.

[@rockincradilyyyy8489]

PHOENICA SPOTTED PHOENICA SPOTTED

[@bio9leader60]

Lmao, a Feenie pfp. This is like a Jelloapocalypse enclave.

[@ursamajori]

she did isat fanart before! back in march its on the aurora tumblr acc

[@avacornthelastponybender8583]

Fun Fact The director of Groundhog Day went out of his way to not explain what caused the Time Loop He wanted to explore the effect living the same day over & over for eternity would have on a person & he knew if that person knew how they got into that mess, the movie would just be about them trying to get out of it

[@jg2323]

Another fun fact that unrelated to the timeloop itself but about the movie: Billy Murry apparently has a reputation for his gradual decent in enthusiasm as he films. He starts off very energetic and over the months of filming becomes more and more phoning it in. So director filmed the sequences in reverse, with the first part filmed being the ending when he's very happy and chipper and waiting until months of filming have gone by before filming the beginning where he's the nihilistic 'I'm dead inside' attitude he began the movie with.

[@Barianus]

My so far favorite Timeloop story is Mother of Learning, which goes in DEEP with how much the loop changes the protagonist, and really shows how even smallest whimsical decisions hold more potential for change than one would ever think possible.

[@gabriealdrue]

@@Barianus perfect run is good as well

[@Welknair]

Came here to shout out MoL!

[@jackbaxter2223]

What makes Mother of Learning stand out to me is that Zorian very quickly figures out that he isn't the only person looping, and that the time loop has been going on for much, *much* longer than he has been aware of.

[@feha92]

@@jackbaxter2223 Yeah, generally the looper telling you that he is looping and has been doing so for much longer than you are aware of (single iteration), before you end up joining the loop yourself, tends to make you learn that early in the loopings.

[@feha92]

I particularly like how MoL made sure to use a month for the duration, instead of a day. And alongside that, made several methods through which information bleeds through over loops (i.e. souls, other loopers, your own mind - both beneficial or not, and known, or not -, artefacts, Cthulhu, and of course sheer memory/knowledge, etc.). And even more methods that can be used to find out that you _are_ in a loop.

[@glum006]

In Stars In Time is one of my favorite games ever and I am so glad you covered it!

[@mattgoggin3831]

I always loved the idea of a this joke for a story where one character has a essential a code word for every situation they could be in because they essentially been in these situations before and when one character ends up in a time loop, they just say to tell them the special code word and they instantly believe them, also dropping that they have similar code words for evil clones, parallel world doppelgängers, and body swaps just to nail how many cliche plots they’ve been in

[@lunagale1573]

In Stars and Time spoilers I love how isat is simuntanously a story about being stuck in a time loop and forcing the time loop yourself. It reinforces the character focused nature of in stars and time, where Siffrin's own inability to move forward and open up about their problems is what ultimately traps him.

[@theshamonk668]

Underated game.

[@bluelfsuma]

​@@theshamonk668 I've only ever heard good things about it, so probably not "underrated", but "underplayed".

[@theshamonk668]

@ Fair enough

[@Briskeeen]

The entire game is basically just Siffrin realizing he has deep trauma and needs fucking therapy. Honestly I still want to know what happened to their country, why it was forgotten and why it doesn't want to be remembered. But I'm also fine with not knowing these things, I have my own ideas and theories, but Siffrin deserves to move on. He doesn't need more narrative discoveries, he needs therapy, Bonnie's cooking, and cuddles from Isabeau.

[@sachanadeau5444]

Siffrin coming to the realization where they think they have tried everything to end the time loop while having literally never once told their friends they are in a time loop says a lot about their character.

[@FuzzyStripetail]

Watching Red repeatedly become a player pancake and then speaking with her compressed player pancake voice until she time looped back to her unpancaked self would be a video game I would buy any day of the week and twice on a time looped Sunday.

[@diamondsw]

Re:Zero is a current anime/light novel example with an interesting twist; the character is in a time-loop out of their control, but also continually changes when the loop begins. Sometimes actions will move beyond essentially an "autosave" point and they cannot go back beyond that point, even if something tragic has occurred just before. Also, said character later discovers all of the "no consequences loops" keep going in their own parallel worlds, leaving massive amounts of tragedy that he never realized was happening. This messes with the "do things to perfection" aspect as sometimes the loop doesn't reset as expected, or because he doesn't want more negative universes spawned. So the idea of a progressive time-loop that retains some consequences is fascinating. Also anime/visual novels, but I can't leave without simply saying "El Psy Kongroo". If you know, you know.

[@MinusZaxis]

There are no parallel universes, the world literally just resets when Subaru dies. Behold an unthinkable present was just a psychological trial, and no parallel universes are created.

[@viaaropyzon3367]

"Also, said character later discovers all of the "no consequences loops" keep going in their own parallel worlds, leaving massive amounts of tragedy that he never realized was happening. This messes with the "do things to perfection" aspect as sometimes the loop doesn't reset as expected, or because he doesn't want more negative universes spawned. So the idea of a progressive time-loop that retains some consequences is fascinating." Echidna's trials of the sanctuary are created through a combination of her tome of wisdom and the memories of the person undergoing the trial. Subaru's trial of the present of the parallel worlds created through RBD were valid possibilities, and MIGHT be how his ability works, but it is not confirmed.

[@viaaropyzon3367]

@@MinusZaxis Echidna's trials of the sanctuary are created through a combination of her tome of wisdom and the memories of the person undergoing the trial. Subaru's trial of the present of the parallel worlds created through RBD were valid possibilities, and MIGHT be how his ability works, but it is not confirmed. There's nothing to say that this interpretation of his ability is wrong. SPOILERS FOR THE WEB NOVEL Unless you've read arc 7 chapter chapter 60 where this interaction happens: Abel: [Clown, how can you be so sure of his survival?] Al: [Plain and simple, it’s ‘cause Natsuki Subaru’s that kinda guy. Or rather…] Abel: [Rather?] Al: [The world hasn’t been destroyed. That’s my basis.] Al in this scene seems to know more about RBD than even Subaru, telling Vincent that he's positive Subaru is alive or else the world would be destroyed, implying Satella destroys the world in its entirety as part of resetting it, which would debunk the alternate worlds possibility.

[@tipsyGnostalgic]

Timeloop moment!! Also happy belated "In Stars and Time" anniversary

[@mithril5869]

Foolishly thought Homestuck would appear in this one

[@RURK_]

the creator of In Stars and Time IS a Homestuck. So it was in a mystical sense mentioned ​@@mithril5869

[@novameowww]

roxy lalonde

[@novameowww]

@@mithril5869 that's for the "stable time loops" video, very different thing

[@Mithrandir-rf5pd]

Leaving out Majora's Mask after showing clips of TotK in the start hurts my soul. Such an iconic use of a time loop and a fantastic game!

[@breadbread4226]

I was going to write about stargate, but this is a much greater oversight.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Yeah. Majora's Mask is a fantastic game. One thing I like is that, instead of the person in the loop dabbling in nihilism, it's the people of Termina that believe that they are doomed and nothing will matter, and the game shows that Link's actions ultimately do matter even when it seems like they don't. This has almost nothing to do with the game's time loop, but I also like how the ending of the game strongly implies that Link gives up his search for Navi and returns to Hyrule, content with the knowledge that Navi is still his friend. The big lesson the Skull Kid had to learn was that the Four Giants were still his friend, and I like to think that Link took that lesson to heart, especially since the Happy Mask Salesman says (while looking directly at the camera), "Where there is a meeting, a parting is sure to follow. But whether that parting be forever or only for a short time, that is up to you."

[@pikeman777]

How much money could Nintendo make if they remade Mask and Ornica of Time using BoWs and TotK still graphics.

[@WaitingForAMistspren]

What makes it even more horrifying is that this is the same Link from Ocarina of Time. He has already gone through an adventure that nobody remembers and the only person who understands his struggles has left him. And now he is faced time and time again with people not remembering him and also dying every time he resets the timeloop. Yet somehow he finds meaning in all of it and is able to grow as a person. And it's the little achievements that do this.

[@rmsgrey]

@@matthewmuir8884 I take the opposite from the ending - that HMS is saying that it's up to Link whether or not he'll find Navi again - that Link resumes his quest.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

24:00 We need a timeloop story where the loop is a stress response and literally resting a day and just being happy is how you break the loop.

[@GSBarlev]

Oh God. I swear there's a show that does this. The only way for the character to break out of the loop was to just sit back and let all the bad things happen inside their pocket universe. I remember it being really heart-wrenching, and I wish I could remember which show it was from. *Edit: It was **_Dollhouse._*

[@GooTheMighty]

Haruhi Suzumiya, but kindof in reverse. She unintentionally loops a relaxing summer several thousand times because it’s missing something, and the solution is ultimately kinda silly, in a way that makes Kyon seem like an actual social genius.

[@silvervaliant]

I kinda had a plan for a story like this, where the main character initiated the time loop by accident and the way out would be actually admitting to everyone around them that they were in a time loop and struggling (yes this was conceptualised after playing ISAT why do you ask)

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

@@silvervaliant "ISAT"?

[@abnormal9613]

@@youtubeuniversity3638in stars and time

[@intercom8309]

(small ISAT spoiler, doesn't affect the overarching story much but still) It's important to mention that, in ISAT, there's a lot of subtle changes that gives the player the perspective of the rest of the party when Siffrin changes: his default sprite gradually becomes less playful and more absent, Siffrin stops smilling when he thinks nobody's looking; and the two I think are the most important since they relate to the timeloops: Siffrin knowing things he couldn't have known and a small interaction with Odile (one of the party members that acts as a sort of sage and brains to the group) that triggers when you search for/ do things related to your situation in one of the loops, where she realizes that something is amiss right before Siffrin is forced to loop again.

[@tobymartin2137]

So glad Homura's in this video, because otherwise I would have had to go back to before you made the video and plead with you. I'd go back as many times as it took... Anyway, her character development over time-looping really does fit the emotional distancing, starting the main series timeline seeing her friends as essentially NPCs, even Madoka, who in many ways is just the goal. This is perhaps a natural outcome, and reasoning with everyone before never seems to work. However, what's notable is when she learns her constant looping is not consequence-free - she's giving Madoka more potential each time, increasingly making Kyubey hell-bent on contacting her. Her determined myopia made her blind to certain consequences, how things are connected, but in the same way that made her fail to realise that just because trying to explain the situation to her friends before didn't work before, doesn't mean it never would, if the circumstances were tweaked, and they are being tweaked all the time. Being able to open up to Madoka when the latter had time to think finally pushed her to making the right choice, an example for such a lonely warrior to realise that sometimes it's OK to let other people take the reins.

[@osbornejohnson7919]

The Perfect Run is such a good series using a time loop. It is so good at exploring how a time loop would destroy someone and that person literally treating life as a game, trying for that perfect run where everything is the best as it can possibly be for the greatest amount of people.

[@ShadowVincent3]

Eyyy I'm reading the first book right now actually, and I'm loving the ways in which the book utilises its time loop.

[@osbornejohnson7919]

@ it straight up only gets better

[@goatmonarch]

I was looking in the comments to see if anyone mentioned this! One of the best time loop stories in my opinion due in most part to how the characters just feel great. The MC doesnt act like a normal average dude but one who is slightly crazy just due to his world/how many times he lived/died on repeat

[@TheSuperHamster]

One thing that has really stuck with me from that novel was when the author (Void Herald) talked about how as the story went on, he intentionally decreased the craziness of the character as Ryan developed and learned to trust and rely on the people around him. It shows a character coming back from the time loop nihilism that is such a huge part of the trope. The exact quote in the author notes was this: "It is no coincidence that Ryan becomes less maniacal as the story goes, and his loops last longer. He starts not caring about anything but his entertainment, numbing his emotional pain with adrenaline, and slowly rediscovers his humanity. By the end, he has found something worth fighting for, and he is no longer alone."

[@Soundwave1900]

I thought no one is going to mention it, thank you!

[@pocketraccoons]

I love when my favorite creators just go "jacob geller did a video about that go watch it" because he really is just that good

[@86fifty]

Can confirm! I'd heard about him vaguely from various video-essayists for like at least a year before I went to watch his stuff, because I didn't really think he could be THAT good... But he is. Legit.

[@jordannoell4222]

​@86fifty He is quite possibly the most well read and observant essayist out there. The fact that he can pull from art, books, academic essays, and obscure video games gives him such insight into media that no other person has been able to match.

[@darcieclements4880]

I somehow have not seen his stuff, I will after this though. It's been a while now but this channel pointed me to the Magnus archives a long time ago and I'm just going to drop that here for anybody who missed it because dang that's some good writing. The last season's a little bit weaker, but it's still way better than pretty much any other writing that I've encountered from the last few years. Another started on the sequel which is really strong again.

[@KWBR1123]

@@darcieclements4880 Dig

[@AlyaK_]

i literally screamed when she said it, him and red are my favorite video-essayists

[@TreeEmmisary]

My personal favorite example of when it occurs in the Stargate episode "Window of Opportunity." Where they do remember part of the way through the loop that they can take breaks from trying to solve what is going on, and then get up to antics to relax themselves. Even with this, due to the limits of what they can do from being in a serious military base gets to them, and after a few hundred loops they start to fray at the edges and redouble their efforts to get out.

[@Casually_Chaotic]

The other interesting angle of that episode is that the antagonist Malikai is intentionally triggering the time loops every single time, even though the protagonists aren't aware of this until much later. Each time he tries to extended the loop so he can go back and save his family, he ends up right back where he started again, but never stops trying, even once.

[@sarahanan7015]

“What’s this?” “My resignation.” “You’re resigning?! Why?” “So I can do…this” Such a fun episode!

[@jg2323]

"That must open some interesting opportunities for you." "How so?" "Well you can go do anything you want without conciquences, since no one will remember you doing it." The pause and dawning realization on his face before he excuses himself and walks off.

[@paichni3474]

In Stars and Time’s birthday was 2 days ago, happy late birthday ISAT. OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[@bio9leader60]

I clicked on this episode BEGGING for ISAT to be represented. Edit: HELL YEAH! Please make this game mainstream!

[@kidlewinter5027]

Yeah

[@Darknessyouroldfriend]

Thank god I'm not the first one to mention ISAT

[@someoneawesome8717]

It was my birthday too!

[@Rathclav]

They also just released a physical version on Limited run games today!

[@timidalchemist8475]

My favorite use of Timeloops outside of Groundhog Day is the Trails series, Outer Wilds, In Stars & Time, and The Edge of Tomorrow. And those are because they actually use time loop as an important concept rather than a gimmick. Characters react hesitantly and figure out slowly about it.

[@rmsgrey]

If you haven't encountered them, the movie Palm Springs and the web novel Mother of Learning also do great timeloops.

[@mdg245]

In Stars and Time is genuinely one of the most fulfilling narrative experiences I’ve ever seen. Just hitting every angle of the time loop mechanic and how it affects a character literally and metaphorically. Please go play it!!

[@lily_flower0686]

Yes!!! It's such an amazing game and an amazing character study of the effects of a timeloop in a character like Siffrin, I really hope more people play it!!!

[@nevinmyers1245]

I'm really interested in the time loop story aspect, but after a few games I've found out that jrpgs just aren't my thing (I really didn't enjoy omori, for example). Should I try it anyway?

[@lily_flower0686]

@@nevinmyers1245 You can try the demo if you want and see if it's something up your alley. Like Red said, it's a game that you're going to hit a point where you are to powerful for anything in the rpg aspect to really be a challenge, intensionally so. So if you do, definitely go with the mindset that the game is going to get both easier and more tedious as you go along, because the point of the game is getting to experience that timeloop repetition and tiredness along side Siffrin, the main character, and how that influences in his decisions and his worldview.

[@nevinmyers1245]

@@lily_flower0686 I'm mostly fine with tedium in games, but something about the specific type of tedium in this genre bothers me more than tedium in other genres. I might try out the demo, though.

[@VanillaSpooks]

Adding to the Groundhog Day discussion, he’s stuck in the loop for over 30 years (minus time where deaths occurred). Which is what allows his character to develop so significantly. Also horrifyingly long… o-o

[@dynawesome]

10:26 So true, when Jacob Geller makes a video on a topic, it immediately becomes the definitive video on the topic

[@bahnankhayre9534]

Fear of the cold might genuinely be the best video I’ve ever seen, Jacob Geller is brilliant

[@slorchman672]

Jacob geller mentioned, I am happy

[@an_asp]

@@bahnankhayre9534 I've had the song from that video stuck in my head all day (because it got very cold last night). One of my favorites, and a great source poem.

[@dynawesome]

@@an_asp what song is that

[@hobiinobs]

My absolute favourite time loop is the first season of the tv series Russian Doll (Spoilers), especially because its a time loop shared between 2 people, but as the audience you don't know that for 4 episodes and you spend those episodes seeing the main character becoming more isolated from the people around them. Then the reveal happens and you begin to follow both characters, and how they've been handling the loop differently, as it goes on you start seeing how they grow closer as the only people who can properly understand eachother. And all the while you get the dawning horror of the realisation that the loop isn't infinite, as the world begins to decay, pets disappearing, plants rotting, and then people start disappearing. Really adds an extra sense of urgency to escaping the loop. It's brilliant.

[@josepharchuleta9809]

you ever read "SSS-Class Suicide Hunter? that is beautiful in its storytelling.

[@Pedro_Larroza]

That is my favorite time loop narrative too. "Listen to me. You were this tiny seed, buried in darkness, fighting your way to the light. YOU WANTED TO LIVE. It's the most beautiful thing in the world. Do you still have that in you? Oh, Nadia. I look at you now, chasing down death at every corner, and, sweetheart--where is that gorgeous piece of you pushing to be a part of this world?"

[@miraf.3432]

In Stars and Time is an incredible game that made me sob repeatedly and I highly recommend it to literally anyone.

[@lostinaliceland]

Oh man, this video made me remember the time loop episodes from the melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. And now that I'm thinking about it, saying "hey we should all study together" is a crazy way to break a time loop that looped 15,532 times.

[@tquinnhunsaker4344]

I think the Stanley parable ultra deluxe also should be shouted out for having a unique take on the time loop story Namely as a metaphor for a franchise that has run out of ideas for meaningfully different sequels but due to the pressure of needing to continue the franchise continues making new entries anyway

[@LordToast]

Endless Eight is time loop story that feels like it was written by a frustrated parent. It's eight episodes of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya all about a group of teenagers being forced to repeat the month of August over and over until they learn the value of doing their homework.

[@Marveryn]

the ultimate troll job by an anime company.

[@JaelinBezel]

I feel like it was meant to be a metaphor for how procrastination traps you in a cycle of anxiety but surely there were better uses of the production that went into those episodes. Did it save money on animation? The most difference between each episode were the outfits the characters wore.

[@JaelinBezel]

Poor Yuki. We only see 8 cycles. She keeps her memories for each one and she's been counting them. She said they were up to over 15,000 before the arc was even over! I've always thought that was why she eventually broke down into an antagonist later in the series: she's seen way too much, been active far too long.

[@josephdavis9234]

​@@JaelinBezel The anime was adapted from a series of light novels, and there wasn't that much material available to work with. The creators had planned for the time loop story to be only three episodes - much more reasonable, while still long enough to leave an impact. But then the decision was made to adapt "Disappearance" into a movie rather than the five episodes that it was originally supposed to be. With the number of episodes in the season already set in stone and no additional canon material to borrow from, they filled in those five episodes with more loops of the time loop storyline.

[@corhydrae3238]

@@JaelinBezel I'm pretty sure that I remember each episode to be entirely distinct. Every scene shown from a different angle, every voiceline recorded fresh etc. I don't think they saved any costs with this.

[@eversplode7792]

YESSS MY FAVORITE TROPE!!! you know i never really thought about that, how outer wilds takes almost the opposite attitude most time loop stories do. most stories have you breaking through that nihilism, making so your actions do matter, choosing to continue, but outer wilds shows what happens when that seemingly insurmountable talk _really is insurmountable._ its about letting go, about how not everything can be perfect, about how even if you cant save everyone and everything, even if something ends. it still happened, at it was still beautiful. it had a conscious observer. the universe doesnt expect anything from you, it simply is, and you are.

[@rmsgrey]

Except there still is an insurmountable task in Outer Wilds - it's just not necessarily the task the player thinks it is early on.

[@an_asp]

@@rmsgrey Hey, it's not THAT hard to land your ship on the sun station!

[@silvertonguer]

I love timeloops. They are so angsty. It's also one of the times in which I will accept a romance subplot.

[@adamfitzpatrick2366]

I think heaven sent is one of the best episodes of Doctor who and it does this time loop trope in such a cool way

[@InkHeart17]

Isn't that where the reaper is chasing the Doctor from one end of the castle to the other? Yes, it's interesting because in that one the environment bears his changes and only HE keeps resetting. The Doctor keeps leaving himself the same single word message as he dies and resets. Funny how he could literally write what's going on and leave it for the next attempt to figure out sooner, but he doesn't. Because even a moderate success done over and over is eventually going to win out.

[@Rebecca-hm6pw]

I wrote an essay on time loops for my Psychology of Morality class senior year of college. It’s really fascinating to me not only how characters can be driven to take actions they’d never normally take, but also what kinds of things audiences are willing to forgive when a character’s actions don’t have consequences. (And also, in a similar vein, it’s interesting what audiences are willing to forgive in fiction that they would never forgive in real life- a lot of villains are fan favorites even though they do terrible things in-universe, because they are fictional characters and by definition nothing they do has consequences outside of the story.)

[@rickyc1410]

YYEEESSSSS IN STARS AND TIME!!!!!!! I LOVE IN STARS AND TIME ITS SO GOOD I LOVE IT SOO MUCH IM SORRY HAPPY ITS BEING TALKED ABOUT!!! Like I saw the title and my IMMEDIATE instinct was to go to the comments and proselytize about isat, but held off cause I thought red *might, maybe* talk about it, AND MY FAITH WAS REWARDED

[@rickyc1410]

Why does isat revert me back to being religious lol

[@azexir100]

Outer wilds and isat mentions fill me with joy, both among my favorite games. Also i agree about the ow thing! The solar system feels so fully realized that i'd often end my play sessions just flying around, stopping to smell the pine trees along the way since it is quite a beautiful world when you take the time to stop and look at it and all. It does feel like there is a definite drive to figure everything out still. But it's nice how you also can just exist along however you desire. The isat section is also something i agree a lot with, love how it uses the framing of a videogame to strengthen its narrative.

[@Beacuzz]

Love the episode in stargate where T'elk and O'Neil have to learn and memorize complex astrophysics/super science. We even deal with people asking how many they spent chillin'. Love that ep

[@brandonquist8394]

"...IN THE MIDDLE OF MY BACKSWING!?!?"

[@jojotheswede8444]

Great episode!

[@arutka2000]

​@@brandonquist8394You have said that on many occasions.

[@brandonquist8394]

@@arutka2000 Perhaps next time I will not be so kind.

[@Ve-om7lf]

The end of one loop where he hands in his resignation and lays one on Carter just to have the loop reset and he's sitting there staring at her wondering if it would be worth it if that was the one that didn't reset...such a good episode.

[@HardCodedGaming]

This video dropping is my favorite part of the day I've been trapped in for 10 years

[@hadriandwyer2191]

Would you be a dear and end it in a way that also ends the world? I kinda don't wanna go to work tomorrow.

[@anezay4987]

How do you keep count?

[@gooderambles]

Underrated comment!

[@wallie4949]

A time loop story that I find interesting is the play/movie Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead. Two guys stuck in the time loop of "every time you watch/read this, their fates are repeated," and they're always so close yet so far from realizing this. They know something is fundamentally wrong with their world, nothing seems quite right, but they're always fated to repeat their actions and never learn; the Tragedian knows they're all just actors on a stage but can never convince Ros and Guil to break out of the loop, or even get a better "ending" within it, because the story always ends the way it's written.

[@Pingvinicecream]

Glad you mentioned the option of taking it easy at the end because I spent the whole video thinking "man, I wish I was in a timeloop so that I could actually get something done for once." If I came to realise i'm in one I would take the first n loops to read through the entire library, learn a few instruments and languages and to draw before even thinking of how to get out of it. You get to have years-long staycation in which no one ages. What more could you ask for?

[@Karonis124]

The part about the Clock King episode that always got to me was the “villain” was kinda right. He spent 17 years in prison for stealing a watch to feed his family. The episode implies the sentence was because he caused a major car crash, but half of the accident was because the drivers were going too fast to stop. Morally and legally, the drivers should be responsible for retaining control of their vehicles and not speeding.

[@rigistroni]

Im convinced Red should play Majoras Mask. Best use of a time loop ive seen in fiction

[@FSR-1345]

Got really confused when she only showed TOTK and botw at the start in a video about time loops

[@Camo1177]

I was really hoping that Majora would come up. My first and still one of my favourite Time Loop stories.

[@christopherfleetwood5252]

@@FSR-1345when there were no loops?

[@kylekillgannon]

You haven't interacted with much fiction have you?

[@themythosarchives7520]

Yep I’m surprised it wasn’t mentioned.

[@mitkitty]

One variant of this i wish you mentioned is "Time Loop but the amount of loops is finite." The only mainstream media use that i can think of off the top of my head is Russian Doll, but the idea that loops will run out, or that you're accumulating damage through the loops, but you dont know HOW MUCH time you have left...that's unsettling

[@LogOffAlready]

This is a bit of a spoiler, but Mother of Learning has an interesting take on this if you're willing to do some reading! Essentially, the main character realizes that the timeloops will eventually run out of power and will 'stick'

[@mlgnerd13]

Agents of Shield did this in their time loop episode, and it's one of my favorite uses of the trope

[@Lunarid_]

happy death day does this too. the main character gets some damage from her previous deaths carried forward, and it spurs her on to find out who is killing her since she knows her body will give out at some point

[@darcieclements4880]

I think Star Trek might have done that at one point. Star Trek is done pretty much every type of weird time thing you can imagine at this point. And I think Doctor Who has also done it but I mean that entire show is time loops so 😅

[@ezraanderson746]

Flowerfell

[@agentjp106]

I'm playing In Stars and Time and it's awesome and I was thinking about it this ENTIRE video until Red brought it up and I'm so happy about it

[@galileo_the_star_lion]

honestly, my favorite character that is involved with a time loop is flowey. dude's been through *everything*,multiple times, to the point where he is self aware of the fact that he is in a game. it's almost like the inverse of groundhog day to me in a sense, as he starts off as a good being, but ends up as a soulless, nihilistic husk, who can't even die in any of the endings.

[@vlooranthewise7526]

Marvel did the optional time loop really well TWICE, Which is really cool. Once was with Dr. Strange and Dormammu, once was in the finale of Loki season 2. Both times, it was used both to solve the problem of the plot, and to show the character development of the protagonists. Dr. Strange enacts the ultimate sacrifice, dying over and over again for his entire reality to show that he's grown beyond a selfish jerk, and Loki literally spends CENTURIES replaying the exact same scenario to save the multiverse, showing that he now deserves a throne when he didn't before.

[@emmarichardson965]

I loved the one in Loki. From saying other characters' lines for them to reminding people of this or that ("Don't put it down!") to his flat but trying to be encouraging delivery of his encouragement to Victor to his shock then joy when the plan is completed, you can tell he's been at this for a *long* time. But I think what really shows how much he's grown is when it turns out the time loop was all for nothing. He doesn't get angry, he doesn't give up, he doesn't throw a tantrum--he just starts another series of time loops to get more information. It's such a contrast to his behavior in the much smaller time loop with the memory of Sif in season 1.

[@Duiker36]

Tbh, I don't think the Dormammu bargain actually counts, because all the character developments happens beforehand.

[@vlooranthewise7526]

@@Duiker36 That's fair. I mainly included it because it showed his character development up to that point, not because it induced character development itself.

[@DarthMolgy]

​@@emmarichardson965The Sif loop was hilarious. Him finally mustering the strength to give the true heartfelt apology needed to get her to NOT slap him this time even if she doesn't completely forgive him... Only for the loop to proceed as usual with him clearly not having the energy to go through all of that again so he just went back to square one.

[@RomLoneWolf23]

Stargate SG-1 had a great time loop episode that does explore all of the concepts discussed in this video, including a funny sequence of O'Neil and Teal'c taking a few "Loops Off" just goofing around rather than helping Daniel Jackson solve the puzzle to end the loop, if only for their own mental sanity.

[@mattshannon3526]

I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?

[@Winterydee]

It's the little things in that episode that make it so wonderful... like how it shows them learning to juggle in a single scene but was cuts. But the best is how it is not until almost halfway through the episode that they show how Teal'c has his loop restart every time... and his response when both him and O'Neil realized, thanks to Daniel off handedly mentioning it that they could do things without consequences.

[@SuperPirateTom]

There's a reason that episode is the highest rated episode on IMDB. "In the middle of my backswing!?" is iconic, it lives rent free in my head forever.

[@lysandermorgensonne9850]

Watching O'Neil slowly and with near-unsettling delight eat a bowl of oatmeal after having been subjected to fruit loops for who-knows-how-long, while the non-looped characters watch with concerned confusion, absolutely SENT me. Never before and never again will someone eat oatmeal with so much utter JOY :D

[@TheCrimsonBard]

Yesssss, was hoping someone would mention this one.

[@atlas4733]

“Mother of Learning” is a great book with some non-ridiculous death note energy. It has a time loop that is existential and interesting, as going back in time is impossible. (Even after the ending)

[@zegreatpumpkinani9161]

You keep showing Hades when I think thats one of the best examples of how to do this right. The true ending specifically gives you the happily ever after while still giving you a reason to keep playing if you still want to.

[@Duiker36]

Considering she's showing BotW/TotK interwoven with Hades, and she *loves* those Zelda games, I don't think it's intended as criticism. FWIW.

[@Duiker36]

Specifically, I think she's choosing *not* to call out games she dislikes.

[@zegreatpumpkinani9161]

Probably, I just hope that doesn't turn people away from some genuinely great storytelling

[@dudebro2432]

One of the best time Loop stories I ever read was Perfect Loop. In a sci-fi setting where there are weird color coded serums that can give you a very specific power that may drive you insane, the main character has the ability to quick save. But like any quick save, he only gets one, so he has the self created goal of only making a new one after a “perfect run” of whatever his goal at the time is. It’s unique because the story begins with a character who has already gone through the nihilism of no consequences and has come out the other side with a philosophy that can only apply to someone in his situation. Also the world building itself is very cool but that’s a different rant. I highly recommend it. It’s available in the Amazon bookstore and on Royal Road if I’m not mistaken

[@AethiopiensPhallischerMegalith]

Well if you can put up with cringe „Humor“ writing of your average 14 year old Deadpool/Rick&Morty/Jojo fan. „Haha I am so self aware quirky. Popculture reference, popculture reference, popculture reference“ killed all interest for the story. „GET IT THATS A JOJO REFERENCE XDDDDDD“ the book

[@DualSaga184]

The idea of having a controllable time loop has always appealed to me since there are so many shows I want to watch, games I want to play, skills I would like to learn and given a situation where I have as much time as I want I could do all of those things even if all I could take between loops is knowledge.

[@Gatekid3]

I feel like ISAT handles one aspect of timeloops interestingly. It provides some shortcuts to lessen tedium, but the reward for for doing the "correct" things in the loop get lessened if you use that shortcut. i think it's interesting because after the first instance, that means you have to subject yourself to this longer, more intentional action like siffrin if you want the full benefit of the quest. I decided it wasn't worth it and never got that reward again, but I't makes me think about how that scenario plays out for the character. obviously you want the best set of events when you get out of the loop, but deeming it too much work to do every time means you are likely leaving the loop without having done it.

[@SuperJJx]

Window of Opportunity from Stargate SG1 is great at this, they realise the only way out is to learn, so they learn, go a bit wacko, take a break then solve the thing thats causing the loop. Definitely hellish for a while there but it is fun and heart-wrenching to watch.

[@_D_P_]

Yes, I was going to mention this one too.

[@pikeman777]

Cruelest part of the loop is how Telc starts each loop.

[@antemajetic2394]

@@pikeman777 You are not the only one who must suffer some discomfort O'Neill.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

It takes a surprising amount of loops for Teal'c to shut that door back in that guy's face. For me it would've been 2 or 3.

[@hughmilner7013]

I love the comedy created by it being O'Neil and Teal'c forced to act outside their party roles because Daniel can't remember the translation effort. Also, the brilliance of having it be both kinds of time loop episodes that Red details, as we follow the "why are we looping" storyline while Malakai is experiencing a simultaneous "I must loop to get it right" storyline and needs to be talked down.

[@Hydra-zx8ej]

Great day when there’s a new trope talk!

[@bradleyogilvie8869]

I really like the one done in Agents of Shield, mainly cause they added that if you die, you forget everything about the loops. That allowed them to get the usual “what’s happening” moment when it first starts, but also to do an info dump say “we already know about all this. You just forgot.”

[@julyadamz95]

It's also great because it becomes about resolving a mysteries. Also the limites numbers of loops available to solve it before they all die makes it More intresting

[@HeyLookASquirrl]

"That's just the ones I know about, because you don't wake me up every time!" The combination of loss of memory + exactly two loopers + only one of them "anchors" the loop made for some very fun dynamics.

[@TheRichmaster24]

Great analysis; my personal favorite is Mother of Learning which touches on some interesting concepts about it highlighted by the length of a month