[Dev] HESH Overhaul?

[@ghostwinter3351]

Glad to see they have started to do something with HEASH, hope it becomes the BESH it once was.

[@Ice_elite]

HESHBECOMEBESH

[@toop1337]

High explosive ass squash head

[@SadStuart]

hesh and .50 cal sounds has changed every update lol

[@domino2560]

Maus seething FV4005 rejoicing

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

So Fv4005 can finally stop getting non-pens and endless ricochets on leopard, bmp`s and m41? One can only dream...

[@totaltechno7510]

Honestly I don't mind getting killed in a Maus by a shit barn, it gives up so much for that gun. I hate those fast little shits with cheat-fs

[@TheT-90thatstaresintoyoursoul]

Not really, removing the ability to overpressure kinda removes the barns whole gimmick of being able to delete everything on one hit. Especially considering they only recently fixed HESH to actually do that. If anything, this (to me) is the opposite of a HESH revival.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@TheT-90thatstaresintoyoursoul But it still has the overpressure. Not in old sense (removing several enemies at once when they were close, even closed top), but stll present, along with splash (that was also reduced a lot).

[@xeonz474]

​@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 i never had a ricochets on the m41

[@RedVRCC]

Needs a bit more tweaking but this is definitely a step in the right direction. Props to gaijin for actually fixing something.

[@thedarkone5049]

Like the saying goes For every one thing gijan fixes they break 3 and throw wifu pillows at us so we stay calm and don't boycott.

[@RedVRCC]

@@thedarkone5049 tbh very true lol.

[@thedarkone5049]

@@RedVRCC i want a italian pillow so bad

[@IiVerary]

FIX Minen

[@techtical7079]

Only took them a solid 4+ years.

[@neutr4l1zer]

BESH is so back baby

[@tirushone6446]

Now if they rework APDS GB is so back!

[@titan_fx]

🅱ESH GANG REJOICE

[@democracy_enjoyer]

they should definitely rework solid shot

[@MAG_1204]

We're so Barrack

[@Ice_elite]

#HESHBECOMEBESH

[@Jacko-zf2pz]

speaking of HESH, you may want to check out the Challenger 2 and the Challenger 3 right now, the CR2's upper front plate can now stop 3bm60, and the mantlet xray model has changed with the addition of new composite (clearly unfinished as it doesn't have ballistic values) and to not forget the CR3, the mantlet either side of the gun now has around 700-850mm of protection

[@jakubrzepkowski2290]

frecking finally, now they have to just remove bit of weight from abrams because it has weight with DU armor while not having it modeled and since we (hopefully) won't have leaked documents that won't make any progres, it should be lighter. (or it was *finally* fixed, please correct me if i'm wrong since i haven't played wt for 2) months)

[@raz_hz]

*heavy breathing*

[@williewilson2250]

​@@jakubrzepkowski2290only the sepv3 has du hull armor

[@giorgiobaldisseri683]

Omg pls let it be implemented,, pls god

[@jakubrzepkowski2290]

@@williewilson2250 as i said i haven't played wt for 2 months and i simply forgot which Abrams had DU but thank you for specifing

[@onlyarandomusername]

This is it ladies and gents, this is what we've been waiting for. Renaissance of the BESH CIVILIZATION! We shall rise the mighty HESH! RISE MY PEOPLE RIIIISE!!

[@Ice_elite]

#HESHBECOMEBESH

[@onlyarandomusername]

#HESHBECOMEBESH

[@xhilivondermivon3323]

#HESHBECOMEBESH

[@giorgiobaldisseri683]

#HESHBECOMEBESH

[@leonardusrakapradayan2253]

#HESBECOMEBESH

[@qee4617]

They added ATGM sights for some couple of IFVs back in december, in typical Gaijin fashion they're pretty half-assed, the model won't move in third person but the Xray does.

[@ofekk213]

Let the colonization begin a new, BECAUSE THE BRITISH ARE BACK BABY!

[@crazyadam9281]

Grab your red coats boys, we're taking back our colonies.

[@ratman-hx9fn]

This doesn't make up for the horrible solid shot killing all but 1 crew and getting you kill stolen.

[@crazyadam9281]

@@ratman-hx9fn it doesn't completely make up for that but it's definitely nice to potentially get a viable secondary shell.

[@no-legjohnny3691]

​​​@@ratman-hx9fn Eh, solid shot is workable. British tanks go by the philosophy of rapid armor deletion, IE: The guns have high pen and relatively fast reloads, but you NEED to aim for critical components like ammo or crew members (especially ones like driver or gunner). In other words, solid shot isn't bad if you're not braindead and try to use it like APHE. APDS however is a different story. Ever since they changed it to where it has less angled pen and more flat pen, the usefulness of it has been nearly on par with APCR. It does less damage, is WAY more likely to do no damage at all, and is generally very inconsistent compared to how it was "pre-nerf".

[@ratman-hx9fn]

@@no-legjohnny3691 I feel it's more of a game design problom. Solid shot does sometimes has it's moments but if you're not in a 1v1 with a tank you get your kill stolen 90 percent. The solution is the new critical damage for plane but with tanks. Just make it that whoever kills the most crew gets the kill not whoever shot last.

[@mrmcmoustache9615]

WE’RE SO FUCKING BACK BABY

[@babalonkie]

But let me ask the only question everyone wants to know the answer for... Does the Death Barn benefit?

[@quan-uo5ws]

Yes. Yes it does.

[@commitselfdeletus9070]

I mean not really since now pen doesn’t matter the only benefit it has is its HE filler, which was already the case. Now everyone gets high pen hesh except they don’t get the barn reload

[@youlaughyouphill842]

@@commitselfdeletus9070 it does benefit because bigger shell = more spalling and you dont have to worry about non penning single armor plates

[@commitselfdeletus9070]

@@youlaughyouphill842 have you checked it? If there’s any extra spalling at all rn it’s negligible lol

[@Flaming_Hawk_1]

I dont know, does it have hesh?

[@Spidd124]

From my understanding the interaction with multiple seperate plates of armour is correct. In firing trials they found that even a thin plate with a small air gap was enough to almost completely negate the effect of HESH. But overall this seems like a major W for BESH.

[@J7Handle]

Well the simulation of the 183mm HESH hitting the Abrams hull front had it basically wrecking the entire hull front of the Abrams. Sure it didn’t penetrate, but it does indicate a small air gap with small plates wouldn’t stand a chance. Of course, this video is 90mm HESH, so maybe the 183 mm does in fact work on this case. It’s basically acting like HE with spaced armor.

[@signs80]

​@@J7HandleLol I think he means for most tanks, not the single gun in game firing 21kg of high explosive

[@GothicHellhound]

Avre and the american 152mm both fire around 20kg as well ​@signs80

[@TheArcticFoxxo]

@@J7Handle "simulation" 💀

[@sigstenbockgard8080]

@@GothicHellhound And those would also shred the hull of an abrams.

[@Your_Resident_Redleg]

I'm hoping that big bore hesh will still go through spall liners at least. Spall liners only work so much. With enough mass or velocity, shrapnel will still pass through a block of Kevlar like its not there. Think about it for a moment if you're not sold: Do you really think a chunk of steel probably the size of two of your fists put together blasted off from your armor by a 183mm hesh round really gonna stop because of some thin but nifty liner? As my team chief used to put it for the paladin, "If it won't stop a 50 cal, why would it stop a round dedicated to killing armor? Do not place faith in the liner. _Its only there to make us explode properly_ ." (And that is a story for another time.)

[@knightlberg]

tbh with the 183mm BESH i dont think spalling is the biggest damage. I think its half the tank being evaporated.

[@signs80]

It should work similarly to if APFSDS goes through, stopping 90% of the fragments but leaving the biggest 2-5

[@GlopPlopJop]

Lmao the 183 even without that could overpressure💀💀 British tree is so back

[@Your_Resident_Redleg]

@@GlopPlopJop You say that like its true and yet Tiger H1 just laughs at me half the time anyway. Then I explode.

[@TrustyFriend]

RIP. This did end up on the live servers, not sure how fast it got reverted, but it is now...

[@Iron_Soil]

So you are telling me they will make hesh accualy realistic?

[@jintsuubest9331]

This might as well be the most arcady implementation of hesh in wt.

[@a_stone]

No. This is the most accurate implementation of HESH in WT that we've seen.@@jintsuubest9331

[@VynalDerp]

@@jintsuubest9331 it's still closer to real life HESH than what we see in-game right now. A great example is when you hit a flat plate with a large HESH shell with a lot of explosive filler and it literally just evaporates into thin air.

[@RedVRCC]

​@@jintsuubest9331it definitely still needs a bit of work but this is actually one of the better implementations I've seen. It hits single thickness RHA, it spalls the plate. The HE blast effect is now actually separate from the "penetration" allowing it to still overpressure, particularly for large HESH. The old implementation was honestly jank af, just acting like HE with inflated pen and normalization to the impacted plate.

[@sddsdd4]

If they make hesh create mega spall on contact with slope armor that will nail it

[@JohnF0X]

I mean it doesnt matter how big the caliber is HESH should have an effect on the thickest armor. just the thickness changes how much Spalling there should be on the other side. Bigger gun = more spalling vs stronger plates and such

[@knightlberg]

To an extent. I dont thing 90mm hesh would do anything against 300mm of armour. The shockwave would dissipate to quickly throuout the metal.

[@shrike1428]

Yes and no, larger diameter rounds and increased impact angle proportionally increases the effectiveness ("penetration") of HESH and the chance of complete armour failure but there does come a point where the slab is too thick to create meaningful spalling. For reference of the strength of HESH though, the 183mm HESH managed to crack the 8" mantlet of the conqueror and ripped the turret off a centurion when it hit the side skirt. Tracks, running gear and suspension were also completely destroyed on one side and if I remember correctly, the optic housings and other fittings were also severely damaged and unusable.

[@ronaldthompson4989]

Yeah, HESH is stupid strong against monosteel armor, shockwave dont particularly care how thick the plate its travelling through is, the backside is flaking. Of course with spaced/composite/addon armor, the back of that first plate is barely skin deep so who cares? And a decent spall liner is just as good at catching all the pieces. And it can only be used with rifled guns.

[@firestarteronyoutube5542]

didnt get to live server. well uh.

[@buscadiamantes1232]

Gaijin read my threats on game chats lmao I've told them I'd fire 183mm HESH to their kids' bedroom protected by tracks to show them it does not work like that

[@Rosaslav]

Be careful about such threats, pls.

[@RedVRCC]

​@@RosaslavI'm pretty sure anyone with a functioning brain would understand it's a joke. Who is gonna just have 183mm HESH laying around let alone the super rare gun that fires it?

[@buscadiamantes1232]

@@RedVRCCyeah lmao I don't own anything harmful other than my mind (which only harms me with my stupid ideas) but the 183mm is just plain being mad lol. I do hope that they realise a small bomb going off directly on the side of your tank isn't negated by 20mm-ish tracks

[@RedVRCC]

@@buscadiamantes1232 yeah I agree it's absolutely lame. I was in a custom match (team tank battle) in my T-90M and I got tracked facing sideways and then suddenly a FV4005 shows up. I'm basically shitting my pants expecting to die lmao but his shot literally just clips the edge of the rubber skirt below the ERA and does nothing. LITERALLY NOTHING. Just knocks the skirt off and turns the ERA pieces around it all colors of the rainbow. And ofc resets my track repair but his reload is so long I was easily able to repair AND return fire. Poor guy.

[@PaxBritannica34563]

@@RedVRCC Doesn't matter, threatening anyone's kids in jest or not is a dick move.

[@VynalDerp]

Nice patch, I wonder how many years until they make solid shot actually usable. IRL testing at the time found solid shot had similar post-pen effects (shrapnel, damage, radius) to APHE.

[@ItsDatGuy969]

Solid shot is underperforming, but aphe is also over performing. The aphe explosion created a cone of damage instead of the sphere we have in game. AP shells would also create a cone of damage, just slightly smaller.

[@connivingkhajiit]

Solid shot is perfectly fine, its APDS that needs a rework

[@VynalDerp]

@@connivingkhajiitAs someone who rage-quit the British line I have to strongly disagree. Both are seriously underperforming and the guy above absolutely hit the nail on the head. IRL testing shows APHE creates a conical spread of shrapnel, unlike the circular spread we see in-game. It's definitely over performing while solid AP & APDS is clearly underperforming.

[@NineSeptims]

What's criminal is how long they take to fix such game changing mistakes.@@VynalDerp

[@sigstenbockgard8080]

@@VynalDerp Well that testing was done by the british using their 40mm cannons with 20g of explosives in the shell

[@Sky_EggYT]

As a British main I want to go play the barn when this drops

[@yoface2537]

Hell yeah, realism, hesh actually doesn't really pen armor, it causes spelling damage on the inside w/o piercing the exterior by causing such a large tremor that flecks of armor burst off and hit the crew, spaced armor nullifies this as the spall splashes harmlessly on the second layer

[@gelatinoussire7772]

A step in the right direction. Now we wait for them to take two steps back...

[@tomppeli.]

I guess we need either Dejmian XYZ or SY Simulations to do a simulation on how much an effect 90 mm HESH would have on the 2S38.

[@user-zi3mx6fy6d]

"now we look - can a single plate stop the 183m hesh ?"

[@spacecocolocotoco5120]

The low tier Italian technical is so back to being a meme machine

[@charliegarrison9688]

Pizza cars unite!

[@YataTheFifteenth]

Marco's Mortar Mobile is so back

[@Ey_SmoKrac]

Gon reenact the toyota wars with trucks from the 1930s

[@tetronaut88]

As someone who just unlocked the FV4005, I cannot wait, seems a lot more realistic now (except for 90mm killing those heavies)!

[@Duskraven67]

HESH is one of those weird things that is very difficult to model properly in an arcade-y simulation like WT. HESH, as we all should be aware, is nothing more then a big block of Plastic explosive. if it hits a 90 degree plate it would be like setting a block of C4 onto something. using the explosive force to break through the armor. IE: like a regular high explosive round. however, if that plate is angled at lets say, 60 degrees, the block smears across its surface in what is known as a "pat" or "pancake" (British vs American terms). what this does is increase the surface area that the explosive is applied to, decreasing the "penetration" of the round in favor of inducing shock through the plate instead. causing both deformation and spalling to occur. in other words, this type of round effectively turns the enemies defenses against them. However, as demonstrated, HESH is very ineffective at getting through spaced armor, composite armor, or ERA. unlike what was shown though, HESH is very good at stripping ERA blocks off by causing them to detonate on a round that wouldn't get through the armor in the first place.

[@Bannditbunny]

Every heavy tank main is quacking in their boots rn

[@Albert_Weiss_Fuchs]

The Return of 🅱️ESH era?

[@Ey_SmoKrac]

WERE SO FUCKING 🅱️ACK

[@10pFreddos]

Omg I’m a British main and this is actually so exiting. Can’t wait to play Britain as it should be played

[@linussyren9221]

The fact they addded over pressure again is a nice addition. FV4005 is back on the menu!

[@sagichnichtsowiesonicht7326]

can't wait for the helicopter rework later this year with more detailed stuff ( and hopefully overpressure for aifcraft ) and the programmable fuze stuff that's supposed to come.

[@henri2058]

Good, more consistency is much better.

[@xnopyt13]

Nice to see that it actually produces spall instead of being a worse HE that either kills or does no damage

[@TheApotheCarrot]

Pretty sure the reason HESH struggles is because when it hits on a busy game, the server simplifies calculations to reduce stress on ALL shells (leading to Gaijin moments). The issue with HESH getting simplified is that its ability to perforate armor becomes essentially regular HE.

[@instellation01]

You’re right, it seems for the larger caliber hesh to pick one of the 2 options either over pressure or penetration, it seems to not like doing both at the same time and it seems to be random which it chooses

[@sigstenbockgard8080]

@@instellation01 No it was not random, and it happened to all HESH shells. There was a weird but that if the hesh had enough power to pen the plate there would be no overpressure and vise versa

[@OperatorJackYT]

*FRICKIN YOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!*

[@TheArklyte]

Okay, I need explanation. 1)ordinary AP rounds also cause spalling without penetrating, just to far lesser degree. Would it count? 2)the mass of the slab of armor absolutely affects the spalling chance and effectiveness. So I hope it'll work out for the better.

[@mecadragoon]

:O as a british main my eyes are in tears

[@ChristianSolanoP]

0:42 dude poor t-26

[@antimatter4733]

It's pretty broken if armor thickness doesn't affect hesh. British testing showed that 120mm hesh could not cause any spalling to a 160mm plate. Obviously as the thickness of armor increases the energy lost to heat and dispersed over a larger area causes a reduction in spalling

[@maximilianmustermann1278]

Its the first dev server what did you expect? Ifc shits broken and half ass finished

[@antimatter4733]

@@maximilianmustermann1278 never said it wasn't expected, but people in the comments seem way too excited for a bug

[@maximilianmustermann1278]

@@antimatter4733 agreed. They are making assumptions based on so me buggy shit they saw. Anyways, im happy that they are changing hesh somehow.

[@danb4900]

Ive read chieftain documents that suggest 120mm HESH can penetrate up to 163mm

[@antimatter4733]

@@danb4900 then you've misread the document, it clearly says "no spalling" under the 160mm plate thickness table

[@tonkman8457]

Even though this rework didn't made into Warthunder PC's live server, it's live in Warthunder mobile since the last major update.

[@bornonthebattlefront4883]

I hope BESH is back I really do Also glad to see overpressure actually work for HESH Stupid that it didn’t work before (or at least rarely worked properly)

[@Zaeryth_Redtail]

The avre and m728 are some of my favorite tanks to play. So hyped for them to actually work

[@shadowcatch4731]

honestly from the looks of it i think if they where to make it set off ERA and potentially scale the spalling based off of caliber this would be a great change.

[@dreenarmookington2240]

Gotta love that Air Combat soundtrack 👀

[@jackbruno4748]

Now if only we could get some APDS love.

[@SherlockHolmes000]

That fucking Air Combat theme gave me instantaneous PS1 era nostalgia. Based music.

[@h.m.s.belfast4047]

Finally, justice for FV4005 And something to use in Conway, and Conqueror instead of the dreadful APDS

[@Wally_Wombat689]

fv4005 still slaps mate i have no issues with it

[@SilentButDudley]

Basically HEATFS on steroids

[@Owlzz_]

Long life the BESH!

[@rags417]

Anything that makes the game more realistic I am all for. I am sure that they will tweak it to make it work, I just hope that they provide some sort of "expected penetration" value against single plate RHA.

[@rhystaylor851]

I really hope they can get it working semi-well, the BESH Conq must be

[@Doctorgeo7]

Finally! Now at least one of the British rounds will work

[@Rynnakkosampyla]

Man the song. oh god nostalgia poisoning is real. I had completely forgotten Air Combat as a game, even though I played it so so much.

[@neromastic4512]

That almost realistic HESH and its behaviour. Can hit anything,single plated armour it spall greatly. Composite or Spaced like armour or 2 piece armour is basically immune. Some spots can be easily hit as it is a sticky like behaviour,basically plastic explosion C4. Now with 105 and above it might feel bit more stronger then a 90mm I am glad that Gaijin is working on it still and hasn't given up on HESH.

[@Rosaslav]

Its nice to see they are trying to improve it, even though its probably very much WIP.

[@Damian-03x3]

Already way better than what we've had for years.

OH YES, actual BESH FINALLY

[@Kyrine]

FV4005 and AVRE lineup is back in business.

[@tackyinbention6248]

Man theres gonna be so much more vickers 1 spam with the 5sec reload 105mm hesh

[@Cepeleon]

This is good news that they are actually working on Hesh, hopefully they also ensure the thing doesnt "bounce".....its a squash head for a reason. Hopefully the also look at fixing ADPS.

[@Justbecausewhy_not]

It can still bounce Irl at extreme angles or just not activate the fuse and thus not detonate

[@Cepeleon]

@@Justbecausewhy_nottrue, at extreme angles I agree but I am referring more about those situations where I shoot a tank side on and it......bounces. A bit like how an APDS round decides not to pen 100mm of armor head on when it has over 400mm of pen... or worse yet shatters because it hits a window block that counts as two layers or other nonsense we see.

[@oliveira572]

M50 is back baby

[@Leonkilsyou]

FV4005 players now having to know the exact construction of all vehicles now.

[@coyne4586]

Hmmm interesting, I wonder how the doom barn (FV4005) HESH is gonna be now that they have been working on HESH

[@ruskiarvo5785]

AVRE gonna shed tears.

[@joemama-zb9co]

the childhood memories of air combat

[@eadolefetas6757]

HESH going back to being the funny round it was intended to be

[@LastGoatKnight]

At this point it doesn't matter, I already got used to APDS, the 105mm one is the most consistent as far as I've seen it. I'm only at rank VI though, so it's a subject to change

[@LuixWalkingDead21]

My M50 Ontos rising from the grave: Aight, bet

[@ratman-hx9fn]

Time to watch as my shell from the fv 405 deals no damage because it hit where 2 connecting plates are and have to wait 40 sec.

[@Ghent_Halcyon]

Impossible, they made something more realistic... Maybe my favorite round with finally have some genuine use.

[@tonygheloster316]

FINALLY ! They made hesh real

[@좋은말빌런]

이렇게 마우스 유저에게 또하나의 복병이 생겨갑니다....

[@connivingkhajiit]

Im curious as to how this will play out. So far, it looks like it makes smaller caliber HESH actually relevant, like the one on the Conqueror.

[@Moneyybro]

Hesh: 8mm penetration *Just destroys maus front armor plate*

[@Dovahkiin520]

Ah, so they're making it perform correctly. Good

[@OG_Oddball]

the M728 CEV and FV4005 are back bois

[@KaanTechCrazy]

I m really hoping ERA interactions in dev server is just a bug. Hopefully they can refine it completely.

[@sigstenbockgard8080]

obviously it's a fucking bug

[@MareWT]

90mm Hesh can't do anything to Maus so this is too OP

[@CrimsonWingz13]

Looks like 🅱️esh is back on the menu boys

[@lmx1472]

love your videos!!!!

[@mrtrapo7783]

The "Make HESH great again" joke is becoming a reality

[@jonahhekmatyar]

I'll still just going to use HE and over pressure vehicles through pixel gaps in their armor (20mm HE btw)

[@jadelepardo3158]

The Rise besh society is here

[@generalkenobi2126]

As an AA main, if this helps me do more damage to planes, I couldn't be happier

[@Azzoz1]

It's really annoying when hitting a helicopter with 18.3cm HESH does nothing to it

[@kiri101]

HELL YEAH

[@likegup]

FV4005: now, it is MY TIME

[@operatorbinky5385]

Get ready for the stock hesh grind boys!!

[@yukikaze_no_archivesw]

라떄의 점착이는 매우 좋았지요 ,, 점차 버전이 게속 바뀌다가 이제는 나락으로 가버렸습니다 이번에 다시 수정된다고하니 매우 기쁩니다.

[@theconst]

알아서 잘 딱 깔끔하고 센스있게 사용하세요.

[@n1co2017]

BESH!!! now my reddit profile works once again

[@bittype2405]

i really wanna be an aircraft now after watching this video

[@shocknaw]

Hell yeah, that means the FV4005 can’t delete composite anymore like it’s 2mm steel

[@remipast3347]

If playing any heavy armored vehicle wasn't an essence of pure suffer on it's own already

[@russman3787]

It's a step in right direction but it needs work.

[@CaptainGrief66]

Holy fuck it took them long enough, go figure that one of the main reasons ERA and Composite was devised is actually doing what it's supposed to

[@painiswarthunder]

Somthing simple they could do as a stopgap mesure between now and the implementation of a refined version of what you showcased, is to simply give HESH the HE damage model.

[@theonlylechuga]

idk why that would be better, do explain

[@painiswarthunder]

@@theonlylechuga well in many cases HESH behaves much like a HEAT shell, but HESH is a soft HE shell, as it is designed to mold to the target and be less likely to bounce, although it is more directional than a HE shell, its still 20KG of plastic explosive.

[@sigstenbockgard8080]

It literally has that, they fixed the overpressure but on HESH so it works again

[@painiswarthunder]

@@sigstenbockgard8080 well I'm happy the fixed that, thank you for letting me know (I havent played british ground for 3 weeks)

[@theonlylechuga]

thank you for explaining @@painiswarthunder

[@pacocinco]

I hope, if this is a proper rework, that they bring back the cent avre and m728 cev.

[@sniperofgodz3169]

Can’t believe they gave HEAT a squash head

[@michaelhazell-sy9bu]

Hesh isnt heat, its just he with the trigger in the back intead of the fron

[@ThatRandomEstonian]

rest in peace british mid-high tier tanks

[@arcroyal1258]

Thank god