DEVS Ending Explained Episode 8 Breakdown + Full Season Spoiler Talk Review

DEVS Ending Explained Breakdown Episode 8 + Full Season Spoiler Talk Review. We review, recap and breakdown the FX Alex Garland show.
#Devs #EndingExplained #AlexGarland
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Devs Season Recap
Ok Devs centres around a tech company called Amaya. The company is named after the daughter of the CEO who tragically died years prior and this has shaped the business into developing certain things.
That is a machine that can predict the future and render images of the past with near accuracy due to it possessing data on a wealth of things. It uses these and it’s complex algorithms to pretty much show the tramlines that the universe is on and because of it’s abilities it has been kept a close guarded secret by the company.
I’ve actually made a full video breaking down all of the aspects of the machine, how it works and what it’s inner mechanisms are so if you want to know more about it then pause this video and go check it out.
In simple terms it basically uses a highly accurate prediction algorithm to tell the future. Since the universe is based upon cause and effect if one knows the effects of an action they can trace back the cause, thus telling the past. Similarly if one knows the cause then it can trace the fact, therefore the future and it is able to do this because it understands the laws of nature perfectly.
The CEO of Amaya Forest and his company have made leaps and bounds in terms of software and programming but it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Due to their progress they have caught the attention of several agencies and governments, namely Russia who sent in a spy named Sergei to run reconnaissance on the mysterious Devs department that exists within it.
Sergei is brought in and sees first hand what goes on there and he tries to smuggle out the info but is captured and killed. Amaya covers up his death and Sergei’s girlfriend Lily tries to uncover exactly what is going on which leads her down the rabbit hole towards a fate that we have seen teased throughout the entire season.
Lily turned to her ex Jamie for help and as she started to uncover things she quickly drew the eyes of Amaya’s security guard Kenton.
Lily is the kind of person to face her problems head on and she went to Forest directly and found him with his chief of staff Katie.
Katie explained calmly to Lily how the machine worked and she told her that she was destined to attempt to destroy it which would be an event that the machine could not see beyond. Lily decided that she would prove the machine wrong and she made a promise to not go to Amaya the following day to confront it.
However, Kenton saw this meeting and flew off the handle because he felt betrayed.
Lily and Jamie decided to stay at the formers apartment until the event was over but Kenton arrived and killed the former.
He was just about to kill Lily too but luckily she was saved by another Russian agent that had been posing as a homeless man around her property.
Ok so episode 8 starts with one of the most trippiest beginnings so far. In it we see Jamie, Forest, Amaya and Lily. It has a lot of symbolism to it as we see Lily seemingly split into two and this becomes important in the finales overall meaning.
Here Lily comes face to face with Forest who explains to her that he has taken nothing from her as she never really had anything and the sense that she was participating in life. It speaks to really how he views the death of his daughter and wife.
Forest was clearly an important element that was paramount in the cause of their death because he refused to hang up whilst his wife was driving.
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[@heavyspoilers]

Let us know what you thought of the ending and your feelings on the season as a whole. If you enjoyed this video then please subscribe to the channel kzbin.info/door/q3hT5JPPKy87JGbDls_5BQ

[@heavyspoilers]

@Nagia Zia thank you!

[@intouchdm]

I recommend after devs watching tales from the loop for some gentle soothing syfy story’s

[@rustomire]

I loved the series, but kind of had the exact opposite emotional takeaway. Here are my reactions/thoughts. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGHZkqGLgZqFisU

[@RomSelleck]

You're awesome as always, but the series was a complete mess IMO. I loved Ex Machina, thought Annihilation had some interesting ideas, but this just fell flat for me in every way. The acting was off (apart from with Nick and Zach Grenier), the characters were not interesting at all and the story was just not engaging nor smart, with all its existential themes. I thought that the last few episodes lacked everything that a good show should have, and the last episode was my least favourite of the entire season. It's not about not understanding the concepts. It just doesn't work. Also, I didn't find the ending happy at all. I guess it's up to interpretation but my takeaway is definitely more on the darker side. See you Monday.

[@Kratos40595]

Heavy Spoilers some of the best TV for yrs. But if in another universe they would of both survived, surely they are in that universe, not just a simulation. Although they would be visible in the simulation of the machine 🤔

[@clarkkent7973]

One of the biggest lessons of the show is don't talk on the cell phone while driving!

[@ar8670]

she was literally 3 houses from her home.. and she forgot about that stop sign?

[@Oldhandlewasabitcringe]

Its crazy when i see how ok americians are about using their phone while driving. Its like watching people drive without headlights on or drive against a one way lane and im the crazy one for thinking its weird

[@silvianveronica]

The wife was the one driving, the one responsible for the safety of anyone inside the car. The one who should've not used the phone while driving and the one who chose to do it. She could've hang up on Forest, regardless of how much he would've been upset. I don't think their deaths are on him.

[@roxxylala26]

😆😆😆

[@danielsmithiv1279]

False. It's not her fault. Determinism sealed her fate STUPID

[@chriscross7454]

I was so afraid they would end it in a "cliffhanger" or without explaining the ending...but they didnt. it was beautifully written and produced.Great show

[@XAVIERCUERVO]

bullshit

[@kadalijo2806]

It's a mini series, there is no season 2

[@Lordinos1992]

beautifully written? seriously!

[@moltimondi]

I did not like the acting that much.

[@paperandpavement]

@@moltimondi sonoya mizuno has to be one of the worst actresses to ever get a main character role. I ain't no film snob but her acting is some of the worst I've ever seen.

[@xray538]

I just become a bigger fan of Alex Garland every time I see something he does.

[@aarond9563]

Agreed!

[@mattteomatei3610]

Cough: cough: Sunshine. It was all him making it a perfect film, not so much David Boyle

[@NT_1]

@@mattteomatei3610 SUNSHINE is utterly existential. Sellarly underrated film

[@qubex]

A major inconsistency is that needing to “keep it switched on” fails to address that a quantum simulation is not sequential nor real-time: all points of all histories coexist simultaneously as a superposition of states.

[@adamiotime]

THANK YOU! That's exactly what I was thinking! The simulation doesn't work in "real-time"... It IS every time. An "everywhen" so to speak.

[@judyjude]

9 people understood your comment. I wish I was one of them :D If the machine is running the simulation, doesnt it need power/maintenance to keep it running? Or is the sim running seperately from the machine now and does not need the sim or connection to the data to work? They also kept talking about the tests using a lot of memory. Maybe I missed a part where they solved this, but I would think some upkeep would be necessary if it is going to run for decades, maybe forever. Time might be irrelevant inside the simulated world, but in the actual world it should still take upkeep. I might not be making any sense. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.

[@alexkukreja3509]

@@judyjude Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the essence of what James Junghanns is saying is that the nature of the simulation is such that all moments in time co-exists together. Thus, the computer doesn't need to be left on because it "calculates" or "simulates" all events, future and past, all at once. Because the concept of determinism is that everything follows a path according to cause and effect, knowing/simulating part of the path means that the entire path is known. The only thing you would need to keep the power switched on for is if you wanted to watch one of the moments in history (or the future) in real-time on that screen they are using to watch things on the show. So basically, the simulation immediately calculates all time and events at once. Kinda screwy, but its a fun concept. (I hope this was clear and that is indeed what the previous posters meant!)

[@judyjude]

@@alexkukreja3509 Thank you! Time questions like these always throws me for a loop, but its very interesting. I think I got it a bit more now, but I wont hold a lecture on it :p

[@enunez61]

I think keeping it switched on has more to do with them being able to retain their memory, otherwise they would just exist in those realities as nothing happened and therefore not take advantage of what they’ve been given.

[@silvianveronica]

In Sanskrit, Maya means "illusion." So the daughter's name was fitting 😉

[@hipnhappenin]

Fun fact: Amaya is the actual name of the actress who plays her, who is also Sonoya Mizuno's niece. I guess it was kismet....or predetermined ;)

[@AdnanAli]

In the opening sequence of episode 7, we see Lyndon sitting at the bottom of the dam wall. So we did see a version where he doesn't fall to his death.

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you! Totally forgot about that

[@modthings7855]

yes, i noticed that too. another reason why this series is fantastic. there are things here and there anyone can miss if their attention is averted for a quick second or two.

[@Cbricklyne]

A lot of people have speculated that that scene of him sitting at the bottom of the dam wall actually happens BEFORE he makes it to hide in Katie's car and is still part of the same reality. Which could make sense. However, by their own logic, and by the Many Worlds interpretation there ARE alternate realities where he does not fall over at all. They just chose not to show us those realities.

[@boggers]

@@modthings7855 The real mind kicker in things that are easy to miss... in the scene where real world Stewart crashes the elevator anyway, there is a faint reflection of Lilly in the glass. In the reflection she is holding a gun. o_O

[@kaseyrolow]

Lyndon is a female.

[@acinemastare]

Alex Garland along with Christopher Nolan are the two greatest filmmakers of the 21st century. Every movie or script he writes is unique and I look forward to what’s next.

[@modthings7855]

@Looking Glass mmmm, i'm not so sure about his work just yet.

[@laflame4473]

Best directors at the moment are Villeneuve, Nolan, Garland, Eggers, and Yogoth in my opinion

[@modthings7855]

@@laflame4473 How could I forget Yogoth? Everything he does is incredibly interesting and bizarre. It's a special time in the world of film thanks to Yogoth, Garland, Nolan and possibly Villeneuve

[@laflame4473]

Mod Things agreed this decade will be an amazing time for film I believe

[@_officerK]

Villeneuve is waay better than Nolan.

[@babayega1717]

After watching this there is so much to think about.. But I'm honestly sitting here unable to comprehend the fact, that they just didn't fuck up the ending. Its unbelievable nowadays... my god was that refreshing af

[@0zymanndias773]

I feel this today. I understood it today. They are dead but due to the machine using DATA, the data created a copy of them and that’s it. That’s the craziest thing to me yet it was refreshing. It has a happyishhhh but a dark ending.

[@chartabona]

If Devs is pronounced Deus, that means Alex Garland is the Writer/Director of Deus (2020), Ex Machina (2014). I see what you did there. This episode reminded me of the game Zero Escape: Zero Time Dilemma, where the game has a ridiculous number of branching timelines, including the trope where a character dies, but a copy gets uploaded to a "paradise" simulation indistinguishable from reality.

[@heavyspoilers]

Haha he did!

[@Cbricklyne]

He said in interviews that the two aren't connect, even though a lot of people had already figured that (Devs -> Deus) thing out as far back as episode 2 or 3, as well as the possibility of the show and the movie being connected. They do share something in common, though. The lead actress of Devs was in Ex-Machina. Another Garland connection (which he has equally denied and claimed is a coincidence) is to Annihilation - the movie starring Natalie Portman, that he made. The military base where they go to, where the incident occurs in the movie is called,..........wait for it..........Fort Amaya.

[@360.Tapestry]

wow (groan)

[@TangoNevada]

@@Cbricklyne They may not be connected in Content or Context. But there is no mistake that the name of this series and the name oi his first film complete the phrase Deus Ex Machina. That was the "Inside Joke" he was referring to in the final episode. But that doesn't imply any connection between the series and the movie,

[@mancamiatipoola]

I think these are just some tiny clever easter eggs Alex drops for us, his fans, to have nice conversations like this. Thank DEUS for good story writers! There sure is a shortage of them in today's show business...

[@sirkkuhoikkala3601]

Could the name Lily be somehow connected to the woman called Lilith in some ancient mythologies? The first woman that was created by God simultaneously with Adam but she chose to disobey. Hmm? :-) Such a well written series, anyways!

[@heavyspoilers]

Ah you’re the best! I was wondering how it could connect to the woman we saw in the cave but couldn’t figure it out but I think that works

[@sirkkuhoikkala3601]

@@heavyspoilers Oh, that's right, the cave woman. But how about the Joan of Arc? Another "disobedient" woman in history. Maybe something for the season 2? :-)

[@sirkkuhoikkala3601]

Maybe the Season 2 is headed towards the idea of reincarnation. Something like the Cloud Atlas did. :-)

[@whssy]

The other thing is the name Forest and the campus being essentially a garden, with a tree of knowledge in the middle. Definitely a Garden of Eden thing going on there.

[@sirkkuhoikkala3601]

And maybe this has already been discussed earlier, but I can't help but wonder why did Katie take it so personally when Stewart called the machine "baby"? I bet we'll find out. :-)

[@x12089]

Honestly loved this show. The cinematography, the soundtrack, the VFX, the way it makes you think. So much better than a lot of other crap being released nowadays

[@Lordinos1992]

writting/dialogue and acting sucks though

[@x12089]

@@Lordinos1992 not really

[@KaneK1234]

Jesse Rapp It’s crap just like everything else. Nothing on TV is good anymore unless you’re easily impressed.

[@x12089]

@@KaneK1234 I'm sure your life is fun.

[@LargerThanCats]

The way it makes you think? Lol...

[@christychason78]

I loved this series! The visuals, the music, the notion of free will vs predetermination, the performances. I agree, it was perfect! It encapsulates many of the heavy concepts of Westworld, but stripped down & more linear (if not a little easier to digest). Well done!

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you! Really appreciate all your support this week! Stay safe and have an awesome weekend

[@christychason78]

@@heavyspoilers You too!!!

[@jayknight139]

Observing the out come changes it. She never had free Will only did what she was predetermined to do after seeing what she was predetermined to do.

[@Mechinwisdom]

Devs and Westworld have the same plot. Also my Korean wife told me a super interesting thing about the actor who plays "Lord Ahn" in the Kingdom ( Heo Joon-ho). That actor is pretty badass. Not sure if you know the Korean people and Japanese have a territory dispute over an island called "Dokdo". Heo was visiting Japan in May 2009 to promote the musical "Gambler," in which he played a leading role. Back then, the actor was gaining popularity in Japan thanks to his charismatic performances in the TV drama "All In," which was aired in Japan as well. A press conference was held when Seoul-Tokyo ties were at rock bottom due to the territorial dispute. A Japanese journalist asked Heo to give his thoughts and stance on the dispute. It was so sensitive an issue nobody would have criticized Heo if he avoided answering the question. It was also an extremely risky moment as any slip of the tongue could cost the up-and-coming actor in Japan a sizable loss of fans or even expulsion from the market. Nonetheless Heo did not hesitate to reply. In response to the question, Heo stood from his seat and strode toward the questioning journalist and snatched a pen from the reporter's hand. "What is your feeling now?" Heo asked the journalist without further explanation. It was all he did in response but it spoke volumes.

[@Sebshappytrees]

I can’t wait for Agent Smith to show up in season 2

[@heavyspoilers]

Hahaha

[@fazejones215]

This show is perfection. I haven't felt like this since Mr Robot.

[@robertwilliamgrant]

Alex Garland is a genius, watched and read many interviews since Ex Machina. The thoroughness of his research for a subject and his capacity to translate it in his writing is remarkable. I believe Devs will only have one season, Alex surely has other brilliant projects up his sleeve.

[@vonvex]

The philosophical thematics at the core of this story are almost too heavy to fully comprehend

[@TheShadowrun.]

100% agree

[@danielsmithiv1279]

Bro stop

[@chancethefapper4528]

7:00 Anyone notice how Katie is kind of an inverse of Forest? Aesthetically, their hair is similar but parts on opposite sides. She's even wearing a shirt (like him) but inside a jacket rather than outside a hoodie. And they share bright & dark routes in their hair. Katie joined Devs because of her intellect, and in doing so found love. Forest started devs because of losing his love, and in doing so had only his intellect left. Forest turned down the Senator's interest in Devs, where as Katie partners with her. But with all their differences, they both just want to keep Devs going for the person they love, who's trapped inside the machine.

[@DrDetfink]

Devs stuck the landing. No pressure Westworld.

[@heavyspoilers]

Hahha I can’t wait to see how this season wraps up

[@VAX1970]

Devs was awful compared to Westworld, Westworld is pure quality. Each season gets better.

[@vannoo67]

Yeah, not really. The first 4 episodes were pretty good, but the rest of the season proceeded to spiral up its own arsehole. The script was self indulgent, the pace dragged and the acting was stiff. (Nick Offerman tried his best to carry the show, but the rest were tedious AF.) The final scene made me facepalm. A tragic waste of a nice idea.

[@RomSelleck]

@@vannoo67 thank you. There is a lot of projecting going on here IMO, I completely agree that the last episode was awful and that the show got really full of itself and failed in almost every way. Comparing it to Westworld is, IMO, insanity

[@vannoo67]

@@RomSelleck It doesn't look like anything to me

[@TheRealHammer]

I loved everything about this series... except for the last 5 min. Consciousness transfer into a simulation? That's as weak a cop-out plot-device as chronoton-based time travel is in Star Trek. Time travel? How? Chronotons. What are those? Don't worry about that... Consciousness transfer? How? Um............ I can see the multiverse explanations here making logical sense, and I could fathom a sim containing a "copy" of a person's mind, but "transfer" of consciousness? How this could be possible isn't even touched on, so it's a really weak and tired plot device to throw in as an uncreative afterthought at the finale.

[@heavyspoilers]

Fair enough, thanks for leaving a review

[@MrSnuffian]

Well I think it’s a further continuation of the idea, if you know the state of one, you know the state of the rest. If you know how someone reacts once, the system can piece together how you’d react to the rest

[@boggers]

The devs machine is able to see past and future because it knows the quantum state of all things in the universe it is in. Katie isolates and cuts their data from reality and pastes it over their data in the sim. They are digital copies, but the originals are very dead. Forest in the simulation (or at least the molecules in his brain) would have aged years in an instant, and Lilly aged days. Katie essentially snuffed out sim Forest and sim Lilly in order to hijack their bodies.

[@crozraven]

You misunderstood a lot of things. It's not exactly their "real" consciousness, but the supposed perfect "projection" of it implemented into the system as a simulation. There is no "time travel" in the show. the DEVS machine work as a projection of the past & the future. It can't really effect or change anything from the "real" past & present time, so this is where the "many worlds principle" managed fix the machine into full potentials.

[@LargerThanCats]

@@crozraven He knows there is no time travel, lol. He was using an example from Star Trek to show the ridiculous ways plot holes are handled, ala "Deus ex Machina", which was literally a device used to unravel a shitty plot from ancient Greece/Rome.

[@TheFenixdown]

This show was absolutely AMAZING! I only learned of this randomly on hulu and super glad I gave it a go. Binged it all at once! Great breakdown!

[@elijahclaude3413]

I put this in another comment, but may as well put it here as well: 1) How did they 're-insert' into a different reality? They didnt, the machine does NOT edit actual reality, it instead *projects* what *could* be a reality. Its a simulation. But, a simulation that itself becomes a new reality. So when they died in one reality, their initial state was simply uploaded into the simulation. Thus why they have to keep the computer on, so that the simulation keeps running. 2) The reason why the machine wouldn't work does NOT have to do with some magical random event. First, I think it's important to underline the show's two leading principles: Determinism vs Free Will. You seem to have a good idea of what these are so I won't go much into it, but the idea that the machine can only work if there are no random events only is true if Determinism is true. In a deterministic world, there is NO such thing as 'random', every effect can be perfectly explained by specific causes. However, they explicitly stated that Forest was WRONG when he tried to base the machine on deterministic principles, that's why everything was fuzzy and had no sound and such... But when Lyndon fixed it by using Everett's Many-Worlds principle, it was crystal clear. 2.a) So, what this seems to mean is that they are suggesting is that the machine works NOT by extrapolating every single particle in the universe/reality and thus having the ability to 'play god' with reality and thus predict (and possibly edit) the very precepts of reality... but instead the machine *simulates* possible OTHER realities. That long scene where they were explaining the double-slit experiment is another clue to this. To recap, quantum physics shows that subatomic particles exists in a 'superposition' state where they in multiple states/locations at the same time... where their location and speed and spin and all of that are just possibilities. Very REAL possibilities (meaning the world reacts to each of them), but just random chance nonetheless. So quantum physics suggest that the world cant be deterministic, because at the lowest level, everything is random. However, when you introduce some type of 'observer' into the equation (this does NOT mean consciousness, it just means anything that measures the result of those possible states) then all those possibilities 'collapses' into what we would expect to see (the photon being in 1 location at a time). I explain all this because its important to keep this in mind. 2.b) This quantum effect is a FACT, the double slit experiment shows that it is what really happens. But the problem then becomes, if this happens in the quantum world to things like photons, why dont we see that in the macro world? Why dont we see all those possibilities in the everyday world? This is where we get Schrodinger's cat... Im sure you know what that is, but it just proves that there is a gap between the quantum world and the macro world. Everett's many-worlds theory however suggests that there is NO gap.. that there is no difference between what happens to photons and what happens in the real world. His theory suggests that on the larger scale, we really do behave just like a photon and exist in a wavefunction of possible realities. That means that for every choice 'you' make... there exists an entire reality where you made a different choice and/or observed a different result from the same choice. 2.c) All that to say, the quantum computer seems to simulate alternate realities where you made choices very similar to 'this' perceived reality. SO... the reason the machine stops working is NOT because of a random event (all events are effectively random) but because the computer is simply stuck running just one simulation: a simulation of reality where Forest and Lily's subjective consciousness exists within the computer. It can't simulate any other realities because Katie would have to turn off their new perceived reality, and thus kill them... 3) Everett said this about his theory "From the viewpoint of the theory, all elements of a superposition (all ‘branches’) are ‘actual,’ none any more ‘real’ than the rest.” So the fact that this machine can simulate realities means that it has created it's own 'actual' reality. This is perhaps why Forest reveals that DEVS is actually DEUS, .. and why Stewart freaks the fck out and says the machine must stop there... because it basically is a god... it created a whole new universe/reality that is just as real as the 'original' reality that created the machine. And inside that reality, there are realities that created their own simulations... 'the box is in the box is in the box' 4) Determinism vs Free Will. The many-worlds theory is so wild and strange and yet realistic that even though it technically invalidates the idea of determinism (because all events are random), it also sort of invalidates the idea of free will (because all choices happen). And in so doing, it kind of brings them together in a way that leaves the conclusion up to us to decide... My conclusion is that Forest chooses to believe that many-worlds = deterministic reality, thus he is innocent and there was nothing in his reality he could do to save his daughter, that it was 'predetermined' in a way.... but it seems Lilly chooses to believe than many-worlds = free will, thus she can decide how she will live and what reality she lives in. Meanwhile, Katie is the closest thing to a god now since she has to keep the computer running so that they can live continue existing in their 'paradise'... she becomes both the gatekeeper to 'heaven' and the allmighty holder of their branch of reality. LOL This comment turned out to be a LOT longer and very different than what I set out to write... but I learned a lot just writing it, so I hope it helps other folks too. In short, this show plays with the ideas of what it means to be god, with the simulation hypothesis, and with the nature of reality via the use of quantum mechanical principles. Still.... I agree that it doesn't make sense that such a relatively small machine (even if it is a quantum computer) can simulate entire realities... I would expect us to need technology on the scale of a Matrioshka brain or something to do that...

[@jakesavage1680]

I agree a 10/10, my interpretation is a simulation within a simulation within the simulation and so on, never-ending, thus the multi-universe, versions of ourselves literally being created on an endless loop due to the statistical nature of our lives depending heavily on our choices. The machine is nothing more than a representation of our consciousness knowing now that an infinite number of possibilities are available created with the new reality.

[@heavyspoilers]

Nice, yeah definitely could be

[@s1xtc3nt]

I think it's a situation of the double slit whereby the very act of observing the experiment changes it's outcome. Therefore by not viewing your future the machine can predict what it is that will happen next, however the act of viewing your future changes the distribution that follows, meaning that you could choose to defy the prediction.

[@s1xtc3nt]

The machine does not produce realities it simply gives you a portal into them. Destroying the machine does not destroy the realities, this show is retarded.

[@henrifritsmaarseveen6260]

I think it all about simulations .. if the world is a simulation than you can predict the future and back simulate the past. there would be a very complex algorithm that would need all the information there is .. to create the future events in the simulation .. but if you can use a method that can simulate this algorithm you have proven that we life in a simulation And then are able to predict the future and see in the past , problem is that looking back is a different algorithm as looking into the future. But all algorithms have pivot points in there logic so if you again can find these pivot points in time you can prove we life in a simulation.. Because if you are in a real world every moment would be a pivot point .. so prediction would not be possible So they couldn't predict the future after a specific point in time .. this is the pivot, proofing the future calculation of an algorithm.. and there by proving the world is a simulation So then to escape this simulation you create an alter simulation in the simulation... The big question is Is a simulation different from a non simulated world !!!!

[@jayknight139]

@@s1xtc3nt but chosing to defy the future after seeing it would also be predetermined

[@markcarcamo2100]

Great show, every episode had me hooked! That phase III box set looks awesome btw.

[@glorialagroon6171]

Enjoyed watching this review! Thanks, have a nice day!

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you you too!

[@danigirl82]

So glad you did this episode. My hubs and I came away with differing ideas and you covered them all!

[@mweissma]

Loved. Loved the show. Very thought provoking. Great writing. Thanks for your review(s)!!!! Keep it up!

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you 🙏

[@donstephon2050]

Dope show. Glad I found it! Also, it needs more recognition!

[@heavyspoilers]

Yeah massively flying under the radar but definitely deserves the attention

[@francis.valencia]

The whole resurrection sequence freaked me out. utter silence in the crawling scene then a jump scare like an awakening.Thanks for interpreting the "original sin" part for me. I didn't quite get it when watching the episode, probably because I was still taking everything in. Cheers and great coverage of the season!

[@chancethefapper4528]

Loved the bit where Forest looks at the camera (to Lily off screen) and explains that the title "Devs" is Deus [Ex Machina] and that "it was supposed to be an inside joke". As if forest is aware he is in a show and that it links to Alex Garland's other project "Ex Machina"

[@jamesbaker3729]

This episode reminded me a little of the Star Trek TNG episode (Season 6, Episode 12) "Ship in a Bottle" where the simulation continues to run.

[@sticky59]

Great review for a spectacular show ! Wow ...... kinda blown away with the cinematography and soundtrack. Each episode was like a mini movie in itself. Alex Garland has done it again....can't wait for his next creation.

[@escott1981]

It still doesn't make sense to me why Stewart turned off the capsule which resulted in not only Forest falling to his doom but Lilly too. I can kinda see why he wanted Forest to fall to his doom, he didn't like that he was playing god, but why did he allow Lilly to die too? Collateral damage? That doesn't work for me. Also, even by turning off the mag lev in the capsule, that just killed Forest and Lilly. The machine lived on. Why didn't he turn off the mag lev for the machine room too? That would have destroyed the machine. Also, there is no communication with the outside world in that room (they established that in episode 1) so how did Katie call for help to get out? (Which she must have done and was able to get out of the room and install a new capsule as evidenced by the Senator being in that room at the end.) And one more thing, I'd think they would install safety mechanisms in case of a power failure. it seems pretty silly that there are absolutely no safety mechanisms especially for someone who can see into the future.

[@LaShanaLewis]

Great recap and I also saw the parallels with Westworld's current season & Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen (especially the HBO show). 🙌🏽

[@hummingbull2028]

great video! i loved devs and believe Alex Garland is one of the smartest, best conceptualizing, most creative filmmakers in the big leagues of filmmaking today

[@Sisimor]

This is such a mind-blowing series. Everything from the storyline itself to visual, actors... It's something very unique and every episode leaves you wondering what's going on without being too frustrated that you don't get it at all.

[@bethany-aliciatipping-ball4096]

I too loved this series bc it was at once both complex and easy to comprehend. The hair-fine balance between the two is alas often lost due to a seemingly strong pull towards convoluted sub-plots & the like. It was interesting that Westworld was mentioned bc, as much as I enjoyed the first series, I only watched a couple of Season II episodes bc I didn’t understand what was happening, more specifically, what was going on with the guy who was in charge of repairing &/or (de/re)programming🤔

[@alexanderkirkupmusic]

Nice overview dude :)

[@JohnnyPappas]

Loved the ending and enjoyed the review!

[@jamiecruze5208]

Great show. Stayed up to see it at midnight as soon as the finale dropped. Awesome.

[@Punko1969]

I took it that Lyndon removed the static by taking the averages from a number of different universes, which were different because of the variables you mentioned. They weren't actually watching the past, but watching the average of a number of similar pasts. Forest was obsessed with his universe and rejected the multiverse theory because he couldn't accept the fact that there are other universes with better versions of himself who didn't carelessly cause the death of his loved ones. I don't think it was about 'us' having free will, since Lily was actually the first to use free will and break DEVS ability to predict the future in their particular universe. Lily and Forest died in this (or their) universe, and every bit of data about them was used to recreate them (and their loved ones) in a simulation that let them live on in a virtual universe devoid of the tragedies that occurred in the one they left: a virtual heaven. But since the simulation was broken by her 'original sin', there was something in Lily that DEVS couldn't detect or predict. Can it truly replicate her if it couldn't predict her, or is she now just another virtual sheep in another deterministic simulation? Was that small unique part of her lost in translation? Did witnessing her true freedom of choice spread to those who witnessed it and destroy the deterministic model that was? I actually started another question, but erased it because I thought of still another one while I was typing it, and I'm sure it wouldn't have stopped there. The last show to engage me on such a cerebral level was The Leftovers. This show was fantastic and came out of nowhere for me. Now, on to Tiger King. People are telling me it's really good.

[@fordhouse8b]

Forrest told us why he could accept a multiverse simulation, because it would be minutely different from this one, so he wanted to recreate exact replica of his own past timeline. The multiverse replicas were clearer because the DEVS computer had more leeway for error when simulating them. They simply did not have to be as faithful. In the end, Forrest accepts Katie downloading him into a simulation where his family is still alive, but reality is not exactly the same (on a subatomic level). Because of those minute variations, his simulation daughter's extrapolated past self may be just a hair off from the one in his own past reality (in our timeline). The unique thing Lily did, that confounded the DEVS machine, was not deviating from her predicted path, but deviating so far outside any calculated probability for any event that close in the future.

[@traviscisco]

It was incredibly amazing to watch. The first thing I did after watching this was to view this breakdown. Thank you!

[@leonmccubbin6809]

Thanks for the vid. This show has left me overall being in a state of deep pondering WTF does everything mean and I'm enjoying my brain being stimulated by this. I find it hard to disagree with a 10 out of 10.

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you 🙏 yeah such a well made show I honestly can’t find fault with it. It sets up its ideas and carries them out perfectly

[@jaybone8617]

Amazing first season. I’ve loved all his previous projects, and hold him to a high standard. Devs doesn’t disappoint. The story, script, cinematography, production design, soundtrack, direction, and performances were perfectly balanced. Free will vs determinism, religious symbolism, love, big data and tech. Deserves a 10/10, I’ll probably rewatch the whole season in the coming days.

[@Gamblestein]

Just discovered your channel. Good stuff. I loved Devs. Best show I've seen in years. 9/10 for me. Best limited series since True Detective season 1.

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you

[@EldgeAble]

What a great episode! Thanks for the breakdown

[@Indrid__Cold]

So nice to hear a 10/10 score for this series. I simply cannot remember the last time a storyline held me in it's thrall so completely. And never have I felt so completely satisfied by the story's conclusion. Devs is that rare experience that utterly builds up your hopes and then "delivers the goods" at the finish. Like the final polish on a perfectly cut gem, Devs ending completes the perfection hiding in the story.

[@alison4dice]

Agree with many of the comments that this was fascinating & engaging. The ending didn’t wind up where I expected it to, but it worked.

[@heavyspoilers]

Yeah same, didn’t see it coming at all but it did it so well. Thanks for all the support! Means so much seeing comments from members so I really appreciate it

[@KDSima]

Very cool. I loved the review, the episode, the season.

[@daisyfield6745]

Great explanation!

[@wilnercharles3456]

So now it's an expensive tombstone and accurate simulation machine.

[@heavyspoilers]

Hahha pretty much

[@todgerx]

Yeah and part 2 is the San anquinten episode of black mirror where the 2 lesbians and thousands other up load into it before death lol

[@jra119]

This show was great. Your review was spot on!

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you

[@jasonluong3862]

Shows with heavy philosophical themes like this rarely have an ending that satisfy everyone. These shows basically make grandiose promises that they cannot possibly deliver with their resolution. The best they can do is deliver some transitory arresting visuals and dialogue.

[@RogueHeeL]

Great review brother. This was a great series.

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you 🤜

[@esbuenodun]

Watching this and Westworld at the same time was incredible. The hours it took to finish one episode because the wife or I would pause EITHER show and bring up something from the other show they blew our mind are too many to mention. It’s amazing that two different shows would tell a beautiful, exciting, suspenseful, shocking (wtf just happened?!) around a similar theory at the same time is magic. So dope

[@SeanKearney]

This review (and the others covering this season) are 10/10 in this version of reality!

[@jimnolan830]

Any show with Free and John Martyn on the soundtrack doesn't need explaining 😀

[@TheShadowrun.]

One of the most underrated series I have ever watched, the philisophical dialogues reminded me of the matrix. The music, meaning, religious theme etc was just spot on. It makes you think and question fate, Alex Garland is a genius I hope they do a season 2 👍🏽👏🏽

[@Cbricklyne]

I loved the series but the story had a massive gigantic logic or narrative plot hole that I was sadly unable to overlook. Throughout the development of the Devs machine, it was made clear that Forest rejected the Many Worlds interpretation - despite the fact that it was the key to unlocking the machine's ultimate solution as Lyndon demonstrated. And yet the entire precept for Forest creating the machine and the project and indeed it's ultimate aim, was for him to eventually re-unite with his dead daughter somehow. We learn at the end that this was to be through his death in this reality - which he foresaw in the machine, .....along with Katie,....and which they let happen or play out as they foresaw it - and then for Katie to re-insert him into the machine using the data collected on him into a different reality where Amaya was still alive and never died. Which means he had to have believed in some form or version of Many Worlds, in order for the whole point of the machine to exist and for him to be able to fulfill the plan, right? Unless the implication was that they were merely lying when they said that he didn't accept or believe in Many Worlds interpretation, when he actually did (but the didn't really convey that in the show). Furthermore, in the end you also had Stewart, on the reverse end of that scale, who all through along had seemingly bought into Lyndon's version and solution and indeed along with the other developers used it to "solve" Devs and in the process ignore Forest demands to disregard it, and he even told Forest himself that during their last encounter as Forest goes into the machine for the last time. And yet in this last episode, for someone who has accepted that Many Worlds is the correct interpretation - without which the machine couldn't have worked correctly - suddenly reverts to 'Determinism' making the decision to kill Forest and Lily anyway because, ...."it was always fated so"......as he put it (to paraphrase it), and according to him they would and should have always died regardless of what Lily did just then to try to prove that fate was not a given. Implying also that Stewart himself had also looked at the future and seen the same future that both Forest and Katie did, and that he likewise bought into its inevitability just like them. The stupid thing with this is that of all the people who would and should have known that the single-track 'Fated' Deterministic model was wrong, it should have been Stewart, because aside from being a big part of solving the machine using Lyndon's principles, he also had first-hand proof that nobody was inextricably "fated" to any fixed path as he observed directly Lily CHOOSING to break off her fated path even after being shown what was supposed to be an inevitable future and fate, but then he decides to essentially, force it anyway? WHY? He didn't even have anything invested in Forest and Katie being proven right in their Deterministic approach, so why would he then decide that he gets to make it right by giving them the end that the machine predicted, but ultimately clearly got wrong when Lily made her choice. It made no sense to me, and ultimately seemed like a silly turn of character (almost even a cartoonish wrestling-style 'Heel' turn, where you half expected him to suddenly show up behind Katie with a chair and slam her in the back with it and into the bottom along with Lily and Forest,....but I digress), that was only there to advance the plot and the story to it's........dare I say it........inevitable end. That really annoyed me. And then you also had Katie, who moments before was calmly essentially convincing Lyndon to essentially commit suicide over that bridge, because.....something something Quantum Immortality.....but then loses her shit moments later when Forest is equally calm about his own inevitable fate (and his sudden conversion into believing in quantum immortality) with the idea or knowledge that she's supposed to "resurrect" him a few moments after that. What was that? What was with the whole "I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU SAY THIS!" shout at Forest when she's the one who's supposed to understand the ball game? So just small things like that bothered me.

[@Ofinfinitejest]

Good discussion, but ( 9:00 ), incorrect, in that we saw a brief image of Lyndon sitting peacefully at the bottom of the dam, including one timeline where he fell and did and did not die (multiverse means strange versions like that), or did not jump and walked down there for some reason. The show and its depiction of multiple timelines ended up being correct, but it takes Forrest through a confusing, almost religious denial of multiple timelines, driven by grief, and it seems (one of) the versions of him inside the DEVS simulation finally accepts such timelines. Why he could not see this earlier is odd. This part of the story is confused, and presents him as less intelligent than he should be. Minor criticism, because overall this is the best depiction of these concepts since "Primer."

[@SteveBatzer]

Really enjoyed but thought the end was a bit of a cheat; how does one get "re-inserted" into reality? And how would one make a choice of keeping memory vs. not. Anyway, loved the series and the implications of tracking the universe at a quantum scale, not possible IMHO but fun to ponder.

[@heavyspoilers]

It’s because the machine completely recreates things including consciousness I guess

[@ishikawa1338]

Its just a computer program, really advanced holodeck.. no1 has a soul

[@mitchgunzler3737]

Katie has a simulator which includes Forrest right before he dies. She copies that Forrest-shaped region of that clock-tick of the simulation. She pastes that Forrest into one moment in time from a recorded version of the simulated universe, presumably before Amaya’s accident, and lets the simulation run forward and backward from that snapshot of reality. Presumably Katie realizes she could insert a version of herself in the simulation too, but isn’t interested. Or... did, and we’ll see that in Season 2.

[@trackwalkerfilms]

To see the next world over look into any mirror. Any.

[@SteveBatzer]

My issue here (appreciate the replies, btw) is that it was programmed to reflect reality and the reality (at least in one spike of the multiverse) is that both of them died. if the intent is that they are in a different version of the universe (per Linde and others) then they should not have any knowledge of the former. Anyway, seems messy that they somehow have memories from a different universe and some kind of external (to what, though) programming happened to make this alteration. Anyway, loved the show and would be curious to see if a Season 2 happens.;

[@williamcordier1201]

Thanks for the recommendation. I only watched it because of you. Very entertaining

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you! Glad you liked it

[@Shax117]

Just finished this series in 2022. During Sergei's experiment, the correlation breaks down at some point in the same way that Deus breaks down as the future has so many variables it couldn't compute it. But still a great way of looking into the past.

[@sofiaav]

Thank you for the video, I loved the show so so so much, wonderful

[@heavyspoilers]

No problem Sofiaav, thanks for the comment and have a great weekend

[@zenboy21]

Great series, great finale. If more TV was like this, I would watch more TV. And my lady friend and I really enjoyed your reviews and breakdowns. Great work, mate!

[@JAWNDOEmusic]

Best show of 2020 - they started a new genre, 'Philosophical Thriller' (Sci-Phi?) - the score and visual fx are top notch too! And Nick Offerman, get this guy an Emmy! While its also technically sci fi its still WAY more sci(ence) than fi(ction) *And way more philosophy than science though they're intertwined, the ideas and concepts are based on potentially real and still not disproven concepts like living in a simulation/multiverse and determinsm's potential existence - 20 yrs from now this show could be considered more of a fictional drama than a scifi/sciphi show....think about that haha #SciPhi

[@malaperzona]

New genre? What about Westworld, for instance?

[@g0d182]

Reminds me of Greg Egan's "Permutation City". In the end Paul Durham, like Forrest, found a young scientist to engineer a "tVc universe", in which Durham's digital equivalent lived on for billions of years.

[@JAWNDOEmusic]

@@malaperzona westworld isnt nearly as much of a 'philosophical thriller' as Devs - u can say basically every show with a message etc is philosophical like the debates about humanity that come from westworld but Devs put philosphy front and center - idk how much you know about determinism and the free will argument and multiverse theory etc but that stuff made up the vast majority of the story/plot - ive never seen another show that philosophically focused but also a thriller - its still def sci fi but its way more sci(ence) than fi(ction) as the multiverse theory/determinsm can't be proven right or wrong definitively even to this day - hope that clarifies what i meant about a new genre

[@JAWNDOEmusic]

@@g0d182 is that a show? or a book/movie?

[@g0d182]

@@JAWNDOEmusic It's a book

[@gerritdejong3411]

Agreed. 10/10. Awesome show with amazing cinematography and score.

[@BlitzinMackGaming]

I felt like he told Katie it was predetermined in a sarcastic and snarky way.

[@pablovandres]

I hadn't been this satisfied with a series ending in a loooooong time. Much much much better than I expected!

[@actualnotanewbie]

I wonder if this will get a "surprise" new season, like we did with the "event" that was Infinity Train. Alex Garland says he wants to make something with the exact same characters, and all of the promos take out the time to say "season 1", as if there's going to be more.

[@Pilarinfinite]

Dope show almost stuck the ending still loved it!

[@ilqar887]

We do have a choice over what we do but not the consequence.which means whatever supposed to happend will happen .but still u can choose its not about end result but the choise

[@alexpolicastro5330]

I thought it also was talking about how when we observe things we change them so that why she could change the future?

[@g0d182]

Reminds me of Greg Egan's "Permutation City". In the end Paul Durham, like Forrest, found a young scientist to engineer a "tVc universe", in which Durham's digital equivalent lived on for billions of years.

[@loseyourself2143]

Great Work 👍

[@heavyspoilers]

Cheers for the support as always

[@loseyourself2143]

@@heavyspoilers No problem

[@SuperIronman911]

How was their consciousness captured by the system? If you're going to say it has all the data on Lily, then that just means the resurrection of Lily is just like Jamie or Sergei as programs. How could she remember?

[@nickreip1402]

loved devs so many interesting ideas about the universe and consciousness.

[@Culled]

I loved this from the start to the finish. Really thought provoking like it makes you think. Made me look inside myself and outside into the world around me, it’s really interesting and when a freaking TV show can do that it’s really impressive to me. Thanks for the breakdown and review man keep up the great work. Hope to win that phase 3 set! Have a good day stay safe!

[@crazypeeps7218]

Why did Jamie look like he also kept his consciousness. I mean Forest did like him. Who knows if they actually did keep his information too

[@chefjonsf]

AKHAA & TJ That may have been his promise! Whoa

[@fordhouse8b]

How did it look like he kept his consciousness? He just saw the girl he loves, but hasn’t seen or spoken to in a couple of years, just randomly approach him, looking sad, slide into his arms.

[@crazypeeps7218]

@@fordhouse8b let's see. I'm sure there will be season 2

[@fordhouse8b]

@@crazypeeps7218 I hope not, this seemed like a limited run series, meant to stand on its own.

[@AjaySharma-mc7wz]

fordhouse8b +1

[@AbzAden]

It’s like she’s in a loop and she can’t break out of it...definitely a west world vibe

[@damianstarks3338]

Thanks for this ending explained.

[@heavyspoilers]

No problem, thanks for the comment

[@damianstarks3338]

Heavy Spoilers 👍🏾👍🏾

[@donjekdemarco4900]

U should've credited the Score too. Great sounds, by great artist.

[@user-vn7ce5ig1z]

• 2:00 - How do they understand the laws of physics so perfectly? Even actual physicists aren't sure about all the details, hence the hunt for a grand-unified-theory. So Forest has cracked the details of the universe and kept it a secret? 🤔 • 3:08 - Kenton's an idiot, he should have been happy that they were no longer a threat he needs to deal with. 🤦 • 3:47 - What? 🤨 I don't see Lily splitting into two, I see someone releasing another person from an embrace. • 4:25 - Forest is mental; the simulation is no different than watching a home-movie. • 6:25 - I didn't see that in the show at all, they (Forest and Katie) specifically believed there was a singular "tram-line" laid out to the future, hence why they looked so shocked when Lily threw the gun away (and Forest specifically disbelieves in multiverse). • 7:50 - Stewart's actions don't change the fact the simulation was still wrong, so Katie still has to face her shattered beliefs. • 8:03 - So… they have all the data of every neuron in everybody's minds? 🤨 This show is off the (tram-)rails. ¬_¬ • 8:36 - I wonder what the ethics are of choosing to play Russian-roulette knowing that one of you will die. 🤔 • 9:10 - Katie is ethically culpable for not even trying to stop or save Lyndon, _ESPECIALLY_ if she knew he would fall. 😒 • 9:43 - Forest is just as responsible for allowing Sergei to go down a path that leads to his death instead of just blocking him. • 10:06 - Why the hell are they simulating hell-worlds? 🤨 On the one hand, it's a quantum computer, so ostensibly, it's simulating all possible realities, but on the other hand, that was never part of the show, they always simulated just one reality, so… ¬_¬ • 10:22 - When someone asks "who else knows about this?" you never say nobody. That's suicide. Duh. 🤦 • 10:31 - Yeah, sure, I'd love to see that, "hi senate, I'm here to ask for a bill and $10 million funding to ensure that a program can continue running so that a simulation of a dead guy's consciousness can continue to live in paradise." 🙄 • 10:50 - Lily wasn't a god in real world, she just knew about the prediction and actually bothered to try to fight it, unlike Forest and Katie who were so obsessed with predestination that they never even tried to change the future despite knowing details. In the machine, Lily is still not a god because she has no control over the simulation (unless he pulls a Neo somehow). If anything, Katie is god to the simulation by having a god's-eye-view, and ostensibly also able to manipulate it. • 11:10 - They can create something that has never been seen before? 🤨 Why am I picturing something Lovecraftian? 🤔 • 12:45 - I would have preferred if they had ended it at episode seven and left out episode eight altogether.

[@mitchgunzler3737]

Subtle point, but we don’t know that they understood the real laws of physics perfectly. If anything we know they didn’t, because Lilly surprised them. They *were* able to make an amazingly good simulation in their computer, even if it got Lilly wrong in the end. That’s why Katie has to warn Forrest at the end that he’ll be in Lindon’s model, a branching many many worlds universe, because that’s the version of the simulation software which works best for them but he might not want to live in that universe.

[@AjaySharma-mc7wz]

7:50 Perhaps Stewart was always the cause. In the simulation his actions coincided with Lily’s gunshot while Forest and Katie never bothered to look past this gunshot.

[@celondelon]

I thought Lily’s character was bland and barely animated her one note persona didn’t explain her actions Kenton’s behaviour in reaction to witnessing Lily and Forest meeting was odd too, he’s a former CIA agent he should know to investigate and come up with a plan rather than flying off the handle.

[@earth14rocco36]

It flew under yur radar initially, then u watchd it thru recommendation, n 10'd... I saw this, jumpd on it, n I too luv it... full circle

[@solidmaluko]

Mind bending subject!

[@jimmyolsenblues]

It's super interesting to me that Alex Garland wrote this who also wrote the movie ex machina

[@videocassette1986]

I didn’t get the ending because I didn’t remember them saying anything about simulations (like The Matrix?) instead they were always talking about one past or alternate realities, timelines (multiverse). In another “real” timeline we’re not conscious of our life in the other timeline unless we travel through them (you meet your other self or replace it). What they see in the screen is a simulation or an alternate timetable? If it’s a multiverse can they see the other timelines? Could they always have been in “The Matrix”?

[@willspin777]

Great show. Loved it. And a great post-synopsis 👍. I think the world may well be a many world simulation and we’d never know. Think the writer of DEVS probably felt similar. For anyone reading this, check out a guy called Anthony Peake, and his Bohmian Imax theory (after David Bohm and the holographic principles) takenit easy thanks again to all who made DEVS. Carried the complex principles and made it ‘work’ 10/10

[@henriclutz]

One of the better shows in the past years! I was hooked, from start to finish. 10/10 for me aswell. I was thinking/playing with the thought of a season 2 or maybe they could do a spin-off called Deus? :D It would continue the story in that one particular path we've been follow.. I think theres plenty of interesting "after-paths" they could have portrayed in a spin-off.

[@mugglescakesniffer3943]

I had a great convo with another content creator about Devs (Deus) that was interesting.

[@Bluenosedwill1]

uuuummmmm pa! loved every second of it

[@caroly1993]

I absolutely loved the series, thanks for sharing the video. I think there's a detail to watch. Maybe Lily is not Eve... Maybe is Lilith who, according to some mithologies, was the first woman who committed the sin of disobedience. I thought about this when Katie is talking to Forest, about the sin Lily committed.

[@shadowpuppet6707]

My only complaint is this show was too short!.... Good stuff....loved it!

[@fatandugly8112]

I didn't know people actually used the word "whilst" 😮

[@schlickrick4526]

Some people also say preperate

[@Glenuig]

For anyone in the UK, its hidden away on the BBC I Player, all episodes!

[@ONExPTo]

I went to see the show cause you recommended it in one of your videos on westword series... Well... My dear De(V)finition... (i think you should be known from here on as DEV(u)Sfinition) THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@heavyspoilers]

Haha no problem, glad you liked the show

[@angellemons5125]

Dalm i stopped this vid to check the other one and after came back to u just to explain it