Devs Episodes 1 & 2 Breakdown

[@der4815162342]

note about determinism: the edits in the beginning of each episode show shots from later in that episode - suggesting they were knowable before they happened, inevitable

[@der4815162342]

@Retro Boob BIG BRAAAIIIIIIIN!!!!1

[@travisramos5989]

Yes, however, those early edits only show up to a point. The fight was at a draw at the point it was shown. Not until Lily decided she would not engage with the RUS agent's help does he begin to lose.

[@der4815162342]

@@travisramos5989 yeah. i love the vagueness. its like fuckin with u. showing u something incromprehensible just to be able to tell you later: see? told you so!

[@johnocallaghan118]

They shot this at my school in Santa Cruz. UC Santa Cruz. They used our library and a lot of the bridge sequences and buildings around campus.

[@celeritas2-810]

You are educated in a brutalist masterpiece. How appropriate

[@odizza1688]

Sorry, I don't have any cookies.

[@DISCO-munication]

First time I stumble upon you guys and I love you! Will definitely watch the rest of your episodes on DEVS!

[@highwithhobbs1173]

You guys are my favorite "breakdown" people. So animated and just funny. Almost as good as @eavoss

[@a7r3id3s]

What if the 'Security Check' where Sergey scans his eyes into the system is a 'synchronization' just like the nematode. You wouldn't need to watch him or have cameras as you could now predict his actions.

[@rickyross952]

One more comment - THANK YOU Meg and Mike for picking up this show. Looked for the last week or more for discussions about this very cool and unique show and finally found you guys. Great job. Loved it! Keep it up

[@areyoufriendly]

Good job gang. This show is terrific and you pointed out and discussed the elements that make it that, some of which I had not caught. Looking forward to future episodes, both Devs and yours.

[@iamJoeTheThird]

I am glad I discovered a podcast discovering this fascinating show. Also great work in elaborating on the easter eggs from both of the episodes.

[@mgy8633]

I wanted to get through this but...i couldn't.

[@mrskeemz1789]

Lily is a robot. Her co-worker in episode 1 calls her a robot. Her ex-boyfriend said that he didn't hear from her for years after she started working for Amaya, because the company replaced her with a robot. The footage of her boyfriend killing himself was really a robot also. So is Katie, that's why she is so emotionless.

[@acetate909]

You may be half correct. I've been going back and forth on whether I believe that Katie is an AI. I believe the dialogue about Lilly being a robot is offered as a red herring. If Lilly and Katie are both AI then why is Katie so emotionless while Lilly is so emotional? Lilly goes from happy to sad to sad and crying to scared back to sad. In the meantime Katie deliberately doesn't show a single emotion. Why would one AI be super emotional yet another AI is super emotionless? Also, if Lilly is an AI then wouldn't DEVS have control over her if they turned her into a robot? Would Kenton have told Forest "she's not going to let this go" if they could just reprogram her so she did let Sergey's death go? There's something off about Katie. She knows things that she's not expressing to the audience. Forest is also turning to her for direction. There may be something there but we don't have enough data, yet. If Katie is an AI then I assume she will have been made to look like a grown up Amaya. If that is true then when we finally see Amaya she'll be played by Allison Pill.

[@FPSBloodlust]

Settle down over there Westworld

[@Dzonemp]

No robots, just messed up people and a quantum computer.

[@kaspinet]

Forrest touching Lily's shoulder mirrors Katie touching his. That it happened after Forrest and Katie's conversation, he may have subconsciously been mimicking Katie's gesture.

[@tristanpasseggiati2997]

Curious little detail: you mentioned Muir Woods and not far from there (actually part of it at one point) is the Bohemian Grove, a secretive resort/camp club for the elite which has an amphitheater with a giant owl statue where the members cremate a human effigy. the ceremony is allegedly referred to as the "cremation of care" and signals the beginning of festivities for the gathering, rumor has it that Oppenheimer and the leaders of the nation made the decision to purse the atomic bomb at one such event here. sounds like a very interesting parallel.

[@danthefan28]

First Petye from Watchmen, now Pete from Devs... This is a PETESPIRACY!

[@Dave1507]

And in Black Widow he's Pjotr?

[@alarcon99]

i 'm loving how deeply you analyze this show and how much you all geek out about it even while not understanding qubits (which really who does?). I might have to bite the bullet and get hulu now. damn

[@kylehagler]

I looked closely at the book Lily reads during episode 1, and it’s actually not Colossus by Dennis Jones but rather The Colossus by Sylvia Plath.

[@lapis31]

Good catch. Mike and Meg should have done better research, like checking on Amazon. When I watched the scene, I wondered why Garland had Lily reading a book by a poet who is most famous for committing suicide.

[@jgrizzy29]

This show has filled the void in my life left by Legion.

[@yseson_]

Lily be stuntin all the time, but also her understanding of Fibanocci sequences means she's probably hyper deterministic as well and thus a perfect candidate for Devs. When Forrest says she'll get over it maybe he already knows.

[@sethskullsberg7787]

I think the Devs found out our universe is a simulation and they are trying to figure out the code of the simulation. Right now they can manipulate the program to see the past but not very well.

[@EscapeCondition]

Great show - the homeless guy is fishy

[@shoeskomania7066]

The homeless guy can read quantum physics/math like he was with devs and then they let him go. Either that or he is the physical embodiment of quantum

[@sethskullsberg7787]

I think Devs discovered that we are in a simulation and they figured out how to manipulate the program so they can view the past. Thats why when the bodygaurd guy said he should stop smoking the other guy said it does not matter if he smokes or not.

[@acetate909]

@@tommyboman7735 This comment contains spoilers to the entire show. Not joking. Read at own risk. The universal wave function of the many worlds interpretation of QM is absolutely deterministic in the exact way they describe in the show. Not only are they in a simulation but they're in the multiverse. The simulation started when Devs projected back to the beginning, the first cause, the big bang. The start of Devs predictive algorithm is actually the big bang. Because the physics that ground Devs is the Everettian many-worlds interpretation of QM the universe starts to branch like a tree as soon as the algorithm starts to run. The eternally branching tree of life that comes from the _Forest._ The reason Forest wants to go back to the first cause that leads to all effects is because many of those branches lead to worlds where his daughter never died. Lily is going to cause a "break down in determinism, a breakdown in cause and effect, a breakdown of the laws of physics" as hinted in a preview trailer. This event will collapse their branch of the multiverse. But like Avengers Endgame they'll be alive in another branch. Sergei is alive. Amaya is alive and Forest will finally be with his deceased daughter. The End ;)

[@birdo1180]

16:25 - A microwave is a Faraday cage. It keeps microwaves from leaving the cage. Put your cellphone in a microwave and it won't be able to send/receive data (its imperfect but you get the idea).

[@rickyross952]

If it’s been mentioned before I apologize, but I don’t think Devs stands for developers (and yes, I know he just told the senator it stood for developers in episode three but I’m postulating that he lied).... in my IT experience developers are at the bottom of the company, not the top, ie development, staging, operations, QA, and then C-level management. Forrest has elevated “Devs” to the top level, secret, super cool level... and he recruited a guy from what I would call development that was able to predict the future movements of a worm. So I’m thinking Devs means something else... Devils, Deviants, Deviations... I like deviations because I think Forrest wants his daughter back and what if he could send a signal back to himself on the day his daughter died and warn himself about it, hence preventing her death. So he’s trying to “deviate” from the past and create another future. In other words, he’s trying to break determinism.

[@kaspinet]

Sergei says, "It's Devs. It's Development obviously." I'd say that actually means it's obviously not.

[@KurlyGrl]

I like your idea about Forrest wanting his daughter back. I felt that right away. All that his company does is with that goal (for him, at least) in mind.

[@johnboyer236]

It probably stands for devils, since the system is based off of Laplace’s Demon. So they are building Laplace’s Devil.

[@internetach8189]

I think you should follow the episode scence by scene, and actually breakdown what happens in chrongical order throughout the episode. You guys jump around and its impossible to follow, you mention episode 2 before you finish speaking on episode 1, or just call this a review instead of a breakdown, sups misleading, just saying.

[@odizza1688]

THANK YOU!!

[@Oxmustube]

I came here to find out how Lily called Sergei during the night he went missing and then she gets his phone in a drawer so she can crack it. Still don't know.

[@kristyandcowreact]

@@Oxmustube She didn't use his phone actually. She had an old phone she kept (I do that, I keep my old cell phones even though I've switched to a new one), took out of a drawer, & deleted everything to put it back to factory setting. Then she made a kinda clone of his phone in a sense, she knew his password stuff and where he's been backing up his phone's stuff...so she used that to download his most recent cell backup onto that phone...so, it had everything that Sergei's phone had on it as of the last time he'd backed it up. So...not the exact phone he had, just same stuff from it. ;)

[@Oxmustube]

Kristy and Cow React Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I couldn't believe the writers would have made such a blunder.

[@cardboardu6019]

One Major thing the show does that is only somewhat based in reality is what the quantum computers of Amaya are capable of. In real life most QC projects from companies like IBM or Google have about 50-100 qubits total (qubit is like a bit in a normal computer, but with the addition of superpositions, meaning not just binary and vastly more powerful when positioned correctly), qubit totals in real life quantum computers are an ever changing thing, but in the show he says the number of qubits they are using is astronomical basically, and they are doing things that we haven't gotten close to actually doing in real life.

[@travisramos5989]

The reason for the isolation of the machine is to show/because is works independently as possible from outside input. Its programming is such that it requires no new info yet still thus far seems to function flawlessly. If I had to guess right now the Devs machine is a representation of the One-Electron Theory (where the entire universe actually only has one shared particle that is everywhere).. they have been able to capture and suspend a positron or perhaps antiphoton that is entangled with a counterpart that is part of the world outside the Dev machine. The machine can measure this particle without impeding or interfering with its spin it can tell them where it is/was at any given point in time or space which in turn gives them the probability cloud renders we see.

[@teddylim6992]

The soundtrack for Devs reminds me of the collaboration between Jan Gabarek & The Hilliard Ensemble for the album Officium. Haunting juxtaposition, yet beautiful.

[@jedgar6653]

I wish yall were sitting down while talking. Its kinda uncomfortable with the side glances

[@odizza1688]

U guys need to either pre-plan these breakdowns or step ur editing game up cuz this is just rambling.... The lead actress is the only blemish of the show. I always want to fast forward thru her scenes, but u can't miss dialogue with a show like this 🤦‍♂️

[@proctologistbarbie]

Oliver Doc I feel the same way too, on ep 3 now and the show is really intriguing and beautiful to watch but Lily’s scenes I have to slog through

[@andrewdeen1]

you're right, I was thinking the same thing watching episode 3 tonight..

[@jaydeelechelt8625]

They are horrible ramblers

[@fgtypezero0684]

Simply put, this is high level sci fi...finally

[@zissou6928]

Garland's backgrounds are always metaphors for what is happening in the foreground. Pay attention to that

[@Lotus_Lenex]

Love the Primer call out!

[@KachZz]

That saxophone gave me night terrors.

[@travisramos5989]

"You would need a computer the size of the universe" to which Forrest's reply seems undiscouraged... If one electron theory is to be believed and he has a captured entangled positron at the heart of the Devs machine and a way to constantly take measurements off of it without altering it's spin (or perhaps being able to reliably adjust for measurements taken) he essentially does have an entire universe in his machine.

[@stevemarshsound]

Where does the sewage go in the cube?

[@QuadrupleAndy]

25:44 Well, I believe that show is using quantum themes in the narrative. In that speech about coping with daughter death, Forrest describes two states of himself which is highly possible referring to quantum superposition. I think there'll be more allusions like this in the future episodes.

[@muvamortis4413]

Good talk! I still can't comprehend this show for some reason. I love it but its a lot to take in.

[@kamenwaticlients]

The floating cube is possible. I feel like the code is the fabric of the universe. It is the code of the simulation that is existence. All of it determined. With that, with enough computer power you can trace back every reaction and interaction. Also you can predict with varying levels of accuracy depending on how far forward you look.

[@FPSBloodlust]

Not only is it possible, it exists

[@DavenH]

Computing power wouldn't do anything, alone. You need measurement of all particles with infinite precision (already impossible due to uncertainy principle). Even given all that, you can simulate quantum systems with a quantum computer, but way way fewer actual particles than you have logical qubits. The quantum computer wouldn't be able to accurately simulate a spoon, given its size. Even fully simulating a spoon, you still don't know which path down the decoherence tree you're going to be in, in the future! So basically, there's a LOT of artistic license here.

[@yseson_]

Lexus created an actual hoverboard park so I guess it's not impossible to create floating sealed chamber, however the energy cost of sustaining that thing would be massive, proving Forrest's point he does not think about the environment

[@CourtlandLess]

0:56 Had to shut it off. Cuz obviously they do not know what they are talking about. Sergei kick started the entire series. We were led to believe he would be the main guy. He invents a program to predict the movement of a biological organism 15s(?) ahead in the future. He got hired at devs because of it and died because of it. That made lily crazy and sought revenge. Dislike.

[@simonjohnson5094]

I don’t believe in determinism but still a cool show

[@DavenH]

What difference do you think an arbitrary belief will have on reality?

[@sarahlclem]

I love the dynamic between you two! Are you BFFs? I agree the music was awesome and added so much emotion including uneasiness and even aggravation! I find the homeless character intriguing... could he also be a spy? The imagery of Amaya - wow! The little girl pictures and of course the statue - evoke feelings of innocence and wonder and we know something dark and maybe evil is happening all around her! Love this show! I’m hooked!

[@Capricorn_ex]

Yes!! I NEEDED this!!

[@shakenbake228]

A Primer reference. My head hurts just thinking about that movie

[@misfit2022]

Kenton makes this watchable but the lead character is sleep walking. I may have given up on this but for 2 reasons Alex Garland wrote The Coma, a novel I enjoyed very much, the lockdown.

[@travisramos5989]

How do you all feel about the connection between Lily's decision to tell the agent to F*** off and the Russian agent losing the fight? As it plays in the episode RUS had the upper hand and started losing as she made that decision. Solving that question informs us about the capabilities of the Devs machine.

[@danahutto1355]

Travis Ramos my thoughts about her telling Anton to f-off are that she really dodged a bullet with Kenton. Chances are that he (Kenton) would be checking up on Lily and see the sign and be led to believe that she rejected the Russian’s overtures and therefore she is not a large threat to the company.

[@omartyre]

I can see the Amaya statue coming down in the series finale

[@Cove_Blue]

Lili's actually reading The Colossus and Other Poems by Sylvia Plath.

[@Oxmustube]

You are right, altough the book by Jones would make more sense for the story, I think!?

[@justayoutubebrowser3512]

6:40 “there’s a fire underneath it” 😳😳

[@kimiata90]

Anybody else think that Anton's accent was not great? Maybe they should have hired a real Russian actor.

[@danahutto1355]

I have a hang up with the projections of the past we see. I need to understand what or who’s point of view they are seeing. It kind of took me out of the narrative when the “camera” panned down and to the right of the figure being crucified. Like are we seeing a bird’s perspective or is it that the tech can see any angle at any time and the present day operators are controlling the view??? Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[@clearaswater4424]

Why did Sergi throw up

[@shortyp1000]

I think he vomitted bc he realized what they were doing and could SEE his own death.

[@mjamitche5245]

The thing I like about this couple is that they're not uncomfortable looking at each other in the eye versus the Westworld couple who are afraid to make prolonged eye contact. Although I prefer the Westworld couple's analysis.

[@neuideas]

The visible parts of the quantum computer are the cooling system, which is why it looks "steampunk"- ish. You need a lot of cooling in order to use a quantum computer with current technology.

[@brainstemriff]

Calls the two guys in the car from primer doofuses- doesn't say the guys from devs are doofuses for not knowing how to alter fate by intermittently exacting incrementally more and more gradual good deeds seemingly not related to their own pathway - this is why this is why

[@D_faul]

Dont forget Forester indicated he was not a fan of the multiverse theory. Which means these "tramlines" can not be changed. At least with what he knows now. So not sure if changing anything his his goal.

[@user-vl4zi9vl8g]

I'm sorry... this isn't the chronological, detailed recap I was looking for. This is just a discussion for people who already watched teh episode.

[@MrCoolmax987]

Missed watching you guys breakdown great shows, loved watchmen but I was kinda underwhelmed by the ending, hope this show goes out with a bang

[@xXxNickWilsonxXx]

Crazy how the 2k old projection is the same shape as Stuarts back of his sweater

[@kapisn8982]

Also that scene in the Matrix about cause and effect reminded me a lot about this quantum computer.

[@lattiure]

the soundtrack is madness and I love it

[@tekvax01]

wow!! maybe your hosts should read a science book once every five years or so! I mean Qubits have been around for 20 years now! sheesh!

[@tysonkoch468]

I understand not knowing what a qubit is but how does someone reviewing a show about quantum computing not know or look up before what quantum computing is before you review it.... Also you guys work at a "tech" company you should at least be aware of quantum mechanics or quantum computing. Also the deterministic view of the world is a philosophic view and the premise of the show so far. I wished youd elaborate about that. ALSO WHY IS THE REVIEW LONGER THAN THE SHOW ITSELF, way to long alot of unnecessary rambling, no editing? This has so much potential guys just needs to fixes......

[@AH-yu2pi]

They reviewed 2 episodes.

[@dygz]

Now that you mention it... If they were close to being able to see 2K years into the past, it likely means they can see a few days, weeks or months into the future. 30 seconds into the future is not their true limit. Forrest's question about hiring Sergei might have been about the specific moment, since they probably can't pinpoint exact moments. So, they knew that Sergei would spy on them, but maybe not down to the exact day. Looks like Sergei was already extremely nervous before reading the quantum code. It would be funny if they were showing him code they had predicting his betrayal. I don't think that Sergei's group could have predicted Sergei's death - otherwise, Anton should have known about his own demise - and he seemed surprised.

[@jonathancortes9005]

Why do they keep looking at each other rather than look at the camera???

[@Tbliss44]

This is like a Matrix prequel where they first find out their world is a SIM....

[@infinto1]

there is a little problem in the way of this hypothesis and its called heisenberg's uncertainty principle amongst others So it's more of a fantasy rather than a well grounded scifi

[@jonio214]

Love your breakdowns. I almost had to ditch this series because I can't stand the lead's acting. But, watching this breakdown re-perked my interest.

[@MzMJ77]

Amaya the statue is very ominous. I was wondering if it can move. I wonder if Forrest performed an assisted suicide.

[@lindaolivieri4025]

TOTALLY understand the song thing! Where can i download that song from?

[@bellsTheorem1138]

Quantum computers look steampunky because it requires cooling atoms down to near absolute zero temperatures using liquified gasses.

[@kjellvb1979]

Seriously got to up your tech science game, qubits and quantum computing, super cool geeky stuff, and the future in computing for certain arithmetic normal computers can't manage...in kind of laymen terms. Yes I am a layman, compared to those in this field for sure.

[@pharaohsfam5726]

Great show

[@Ofinfinitejest]

"Like a caveman" 11:16. Hmmmm. Pretty good prediction algorithm use there.

[@bertiebrown581]

SPOILERS FOR PRIMER

[@bennyblanco14]

How did the Russian spy lose the fight when clearly he had the upper hand

[@vishalsorout]

Murrica

[@bennyblanco14]

@@vishalsorout murrrricccaaaa fuck yeah!!

[@acetate909]

He didn't lose the fight. Did you notice that Kenton couldn't have broken the Russians neck in the position they were laying. All you heard was a snap. I think it was all a show to trick the Devs if they viewed the scene with the projection machine. All Devs would see was two fuzzy figures falling down and then hear a snap. I think it was all pre planned and faked for some reason.

[@TheRoguekira]

Nah, he's dead. Kenton forced Anton's neck into the tire to kill him, He was able to push his legs off the car for leverage, You can clearly see his neck snap.

[@The27Truth]

her "Uhm" sound is really distracting :) Please stop doing that, also recalibrate the mics, so they match - her volume is much higher than his.

[@daveconrad6562]

Don’t be like that

[@mfninja5190]

These two hosts+Ryan and Greg should totally have their own show or maybe a podcast. I really enjoy all of them so much.

[@GameSpotUniverse]

We just launched our new podcast called You Should Be Watching! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZKsoWh7bbF1nbc Mike and Meg will be on episode 3 next week. You can also listen to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Play.

[@damnedcarrot]

Jesus Christ. The things you guys find challenging….I don’t understand how you guys could possibly have digested this show coherently.

[@brainstemriff]

Weyland yutani and the shining have a baby into 60's cult style music

[@yseson_]

Devs the whole culty tech company schtick. Devs simultaneously means gods and developers (as in human developers) to contradictory states existing at once.

[@Jamaicalandofthefree]

Donnie Darko prepared me for Devs and Westworld made me watch it

[@Fivehe]

the vocal fry from the female host gets under my skin

[@daveconrad6562]

Nobody cares about your negativity

[@Fivehe]

@@daveconrad6562 I'm saying it bothers me personally. I have still been watching each recap/review.

[@shortyp1000]

Kenton was being xenophobic not racist. Anton is a Russian white guy. Anyway great recap. I'm late to this show, and I am loving it.

[@gabzpot]

The show is good, but maybe you love because you don't know the things on the show. Is like, loving something because is all new for you.

[@travisramos5989]

Bets on whether Lyndon's indeterminable gender is or is shown to become relevant.

[@jamesfraley2715]

I tried to watch, but the lead actress is not engaging and seems wooden. Also, the pacing is too slow to keep me interested. Nick Offerman is good, but that's not enough to save this show for mee.

[@Nilguiri]

Agreed. That is exactly what I thought!

[@52LilBoot]

Katie must be a robot

[@EvPdub]

Am I the only one who thinks Forrest (Nick Offerman) is Jesus?? The first time you see Jesus through Forrest's tech, it looks just like a skinnier version of Forrest

[@HardyCozen]

lol @ flashbacks of 'Lube Guy'

[@fakeItRight]

SPOILER: Lily is Rachel Maddow

[@yseson_]

Okay I've rewatched ep1 what if Sergei figured it out when Forrest gave him three guesses to figure it out. Quantum cellphones he says. What if the goal of the device is a quantum entanglement communication system? if you can communicate with the past you can influence the present, not so much change history but better understand the now.

[@tylermarchese6503]

He fine and her hair is so pretty

[@robertgatsby9755]

Watch Lex Friedman and Alex Garland podcast if you want to watch something interesting.

[@TheJESandoval]

I believe Forest does know everything that's going to happen and because of it, he seems burdened. Sort of like how Jesus Christ had to carry the weight of everyone's sins. Everything seems to be predetermined. They had to let the apt come in to Devs because it was predetermined. I keep thinking about Morty wearing the crystal, that reveals how he will die, on his head. He became a slave to the crystal and did everything he needed to do to get the final result he wanted. At first it was hard for him to navigate, but later he becomes numb to it and embraces it.

[@DavenH]

Can't pronounce "phenomena" even in print. Come on people: phenomena plural, phenomenon singular.

[@speedracer9132]

DavenH this was the wrong pair to do a deep dive in this show, they thought qubits weren’t real and that the actually realistic looking quantum computer looked like something from chitty chitty bang bang... they couldn’t even tell that a set like the dev lab was a lot of CG

[@DavenH]

Sigh... very simple. I know you tried, so thanks for the effort at least.

[@tysotope]

cosi reference shout out to central ohio

[@yseson_]

Lastly that room sized quantum computer's going to look funny 10 years from now when you'll be able to fit one in the palm of your hand.

[@two2truths]

Meg is gorgeous... so beautiful

[@Sgtspork]

Lube Man Identity revealed in latest edition of Peteypedia! Not a joke! They just updated it.. just saw a KZbin vid on it.. you'll absolutely be mind blown by it!

[@nsc2443]

the lead actress is a disaster