DF Retro: Nintendo 64 HDMI Video Options: EON Super 64, Retrotink 2x, UltraHDMI + N64 RGB!

[@dan_loup]

The "film grain" is caused by the way the nintendo 64 render the graphics. It renders the picture internally at 15bit color depth with a pretty strong ordered dither, then the Video output chip strategically blends the dither to make a virtual "22bit output", kinda like the original 3Dfx cards. To be more precise, as the N64 memory have 9 bits due being made for ECC, and in the frame buffer, they use the extra bit to mark where to perform a blur, then the VI chip itself read this extra data and perform the blur as a post processing step, and both the dither and the triangle edges are marked, so you get the deditherer and anti alias for "free".

[@Sithedd]

Haha you said "dither"

[@dan_loup]

@@Sithedd I sure did. And it gets VERY obvious when the game use a fullscreen tinting filter like on starfox 64 or shadow man. Those games will have a softer overall output due the whole screen being blurred.

[@chrisfratz]

What's weird is that the film grain effect is stil still there when playing Star Fox 64 on project 64

[@RedlineRossi]

Hey DF, Sign this guy up!!

[@dan_loup]

@@chrisfratz i bet it only happens on plugins that also do the vanish cap and smash bros noise correctly. I have no clue on the exact technical details, but i guess they abuse the dither somehow.

[@ndrinks5550]

As soon as I saw that EON Super64 device I knew the internals would be a complete mess. The exact same trick is often used in "hi-fi" audio equipment as a smokescreen to try and give the impression of high quality and justify a much higher price.

[@SuJuMcKronklin]

"I am not an atomic playboy!"

[@Nukle0n]

Voultar's teardown heavily implies that this is just a Retrotink 2x. It has what appears to be the same chips, but it's hard to confim since eon scraped the serial numbers and other identifiers off all the chips before covering everything in epoxy. But in reality what it turns out is that the EON Super 64 is just a more expensive version of this product, that somehow does less. Yes you don't need to find an N64 S-Video cable, but with the Retrotink you can use it with any old system that has Composite, S-Video or Component video out as long as you want to buy a cable, while the EON product can only be used on the N64 and Gamecube.

[@FinalBaton]

Yep. and now that Retro_Access has released a good quality S-video cable at reasonable price for the Nintendo- Multi-Out connector, the Retro-Tink is the no-contest-winner here between these two

[@AirshBornely]

@@FinalBaton I'll have to look into that. I currently have a good S-Video cable for my N64, so I don't really need it.

[@brandonginsburg3120]

@@AirshBornelyI've been using a Monster Gamecube S-Video cable for N64. It is thick (well-protected). I once had some bad video noise using a cheap n64 Y/C. When I switched it with the Monster cable, there was no noise.

[@SOAVFitness]

Nukleon have you tried retro tink plus mclassic? Is that possible

[@Ballowax]

And their selling this for $150, fuck them. I want a price drop because this peice of hardware isn't deserving of such of premium price tag

[@GameplayandTalk]

Still hard to believe this EON device is $150. It's really, *really* hard to recommend it over the RetroTink in most cases.

[@nicolaslavinicki4029]

Nintendo 64 was my first console... lot of memories

[@arcticridge]

*My Life In Digital Foundry* < you're damn right I'm pointing to my DP for this one.

[@abletothink]

I paid a lot for an Ultra HDMI modded N64 and I do not regret it at all. It's a fantastic mod and the deblur gives you all the benefits of the texture filtering without the ghastly vaseline filter the system normally does. I love my crisp pixels.

[@radornkeldam]

The "film grain" effect mentioned is the "gamma dithering" effect, as I think they call it, It's a weird effect that does both a form of gamma correction and dithering at the same time. It is an effect that is applied by the VI (video interface) as it reads the rendered framebuffer to be output to the DAC. The two main games that come to mind that use it are StarFox 64 and MISSION:IMPOSSIBLE and the graphics themselves or, at least, the rendering, have to be mastered with a darker tone all over specifically so that you can later apply this effect over the resulting rendered graphics, because the effect causes the gamma to go up. While I may be missing something, some hidden merit of the effect, I think it's a really dumb option that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Basically they start by making the graphic resources with an inverse gamma curve, or apply it during rendering, and then the filter restores the gamma to it's proper level while also resulting in a smoothing out of the dithering. Since most N64 game render as 15/16 bit RGB and the N64 outputs 21bit RGB (7bit per component instead of 8), there's room to smooth out the dithering resulting from the rendering stage. This may seem good, but the problem is that, in dark areas, because of the darkening during the rendering to accomodate the filter, things become way too dark and dithering artifacts in those areas turn out so strong that even the gamma dither filter can't correct them, and it all just results in even more crappy graphics with no benefit overall. It's just dumb. As you probably know, there are tools out there, and manual hack too, that allow you to enable and disable VI settings. This is mostly known for the partial de-blur hacks, similar in scope to the ultrahdmi de-blur. These tools can toggle other effects too, including the gamma dithering effect, which reveals the darkening of the rendered graphics that I mentioned. You can then enable normal non-dithering gamma correction, but this is also horrible looking because you are just gamma correcting graphics that are heavily dithered in dark areas. It's a mess really. That effect should never have existed.

[@brandonginsburg3120]

In general, Starfox 64 has good graphics (vibrant and not blurry or jagged). But what you've said has conjured-up the underwater level and to a minor extent the rectum-looking thing in one space level. My Player's Choice version of Shadows of the Empire has a debug feature that allows you disable the dither filter. It then became hard to unsee the effect in that game.

[@CurtMudgeon]

John keeps it so retro he's still saving flavors from the 90's on that flavor saver.

[@WH250398]

When it comes to getting good image quality out of a console, the N64 is a major pain in the ass. Especially the PAL version.

[@Astfgl]

Yeah, why Nintendo added native RGB output to the US console but took it out of the EU version, where people actually had RGB inputs on their TV, that is just baffling. Not to mention they left out certain parts of the S-Video circuitry which would have allowed US cables to work, then neglected to release a European S-Video cable. A standard unmodded EU N64 could only output composite video at best, which is just nasty.

[@recklesflam1ngo968]

@@Astfgl I know right? Makes literally no sense composite sucks ass here in au

[@louaial-obaidi3998]

Yeah, getting good S-Video out of a PAL console is a bit of a trip. Easiest way I found was to just buy a high quality NTSC S-Video cable and then wire up an intermediate box with the proper resistors and capacitors myself. So called "PAL" S-Video cables you can get on Ebay or Amazon never actually are (and they're full of composite noise too).

[@isanchez64]

@@Astfgl US N64 are not native RGB. It has to be modded.

[@WH250398]

@@louaial-obaidi3998 Can you explain to me how to solder those cables? I can solder, but I can't read schematics.

[@chchris25]

I have the Ultra HDMI, but I prefer the look of S-Video running through the RetroTINK-2X Pro. The Ultra HDMI with De-Blur enabled, does provide the sharpest digital signal for the N64, but I feel that it steers away from Nintendo’s original intent. Nintendo took advantage of the low quality analog signal, combined with antialiasing to achieve a specific look on a CRT-TV. The N64 graphics on a CRT-TV look clean, without the need of sharp pixels or additional smoothing filters. Therefore the solution of making the N64’s image quality look best on a HDTV, is to mimic the CRT appearance on your HDTV (Not by using ultra sharp pixels or smoothing filters). The RetroTINK-2X Pro can mimic the CRT or PVM appearance by applying SCANLINES on a native analog signal. The Ultra HDMI can also generate SCANLINES, but it’s sharp digital signal brings out the N64’s flaws. Which is why I think it’s important to go with SCANLINES on a analog signal to achieve the clean look that Nintendo and the developers intended.

[@Ballowax]

I honestally I love both the look of N64 through the retro tinx 2X and Ultra HDMI via de blur. They both have their merits and sadly not everyone is willing to show off that sharp pixel look you can get on the N64 via the Ultra HDMI and Game Shark

[@ericko777]

I want the ultra hdmi but i can't spend $800 for it. I'm happy to hear that the retrotink is preferred to some. Would you know If the EON super 64 is a better choice than the retrotink mini? I do not need it to be compatible with other systems, I don't mind the extra power supply that much and I plan on pairing it with the mclassic.

[@chchris25]

@@ericko777 I haven’t tested the EON solution. But based on video comparisons, the results look similar to the RetroTINK. I prefer the RetroTINK because it can be used on multiple consoles. All RetroTINK 2X products work great, they offer scanlines and smoothing options. And if you willing to spend more, the RetroTINK 5X is the ultimate solution. You select the N64 profile and the results look very similar to the Ultra HDMI. The only downside RetroTINK 5X doesn’t offer a smoothing option. Maybe Mike Chi can implement that in a future update.

[@ericko777]

@@chchris25 thank you. I did want the retrotink 5x for my 480i PS2 but I was doing pretty good having it connected to the OSSC so I didn't think it would be worth the $300. However, It would free up a component input on my switch box which would allow me to connect another system to my OSSC. I wasn't sure if it would be worth it to get the 5x over the 2x for the N64 so thank you for the advice. I was leaning towards the Super 64 but now I think the 5x would be the better choice since it provides a better picture quality than the 2x and will free up an input.

[@borisfeinbrand8937]

I appreciate the Forsaken Soundtrack being used. Man that gets me in the Nostalgia Glands.

[@rsmith02]

Finally, it's so rare to see a Daikatana plug!

[@JustAnotherGamerUS]

rsmith02 I will never agree with the world’s negative sentiment towards Daikatana

[@ApemanMonkey]

Timestamp?

[@JustAnotherGamerUS]

21:24

[@paine7992]

Daikatana....😂 🤣😂 🤣 Jesus this game was far beyond bad^^

[@ztgasdf]

I think the whole thing with Daikatana was the janky 3DS thing. I really can't remember what happened, so take my comment with a grain of salt.

[@CAPCOM784]

Glad it was brought up about the build quality of the Super 64. You know $150 for something that has that kind of quality is not cool in my book.I would say Retrotink or RGB modding would be the ideal solution for N64 players?

[@frombauer]

DF Retro and My Life in Gaming? I'm in fucking heaven

[@roborob23]

I hearing this video at work....and...is Tom Hanks into video games? Cause I'm hearing he's voice 🤣🤣🤣

[@thiagovidal6137]

lol It totally is if I stop looking at the video.

[@alejandrobolanos4655]

Cannot be unheard

[@PhantomHavok]

Oh my God, Try really does sound like Tom Hanks..

[@MrLegendary0ne]

Super 64 is very convenient. Especially when taking it to a friends house. Less wires + no retrotink box to deal with. Love mine.

[@Auddy07]

I have the UltraHDMI and it's the single best video game investment I've ever made.

[@8bitDNA]

Amen

[@justanotheryoutubechannel]

Honestly that N64 composite footage looked really clear! The N64 must have some of the best composite ever! Either that or the blurring covers up the rainbowing.

[@MilkerMurphy]

EON sells these products at a ridiculous price, yet there's always a BETTER and cheaper alternative. Carby for Gamecube, hardware mods for the N64. Nice packaging though.

[@AirshBornely]

I currently have the Zelda X Pro GC adapter which is pretty nice and was cheaper than EON adapter

[@iamturokn64]

What's carby?

[@MilkerMurphy]

@@iamturokn64 Carby is the name of another HDMI adapter for the Gamecube.

[@iamturokn64]

@@MilkerMurphy oh, I see. Thanks.

[@dookie_12]

Nice! Another DF + MLIG crossover

[@Legionemo]

Nintendo please let me buy N64 games on my Switch.Thats all I need right now,well,maybe gamecube games too.

[@dun0790]

Df retro and gamesack would be my ultimate collaboration

[@zefrem1]

Did you to do a Tom Hanks voice overs

[@You-gk1el]

Bro I paused just to come and see who else thought this lol I closed my eyes and thought “💭 Tom hanks ..... a retro gamer”

[@JonMann87]

I was literally just thinking about modding my N64 and then this comes along, thank you Johh and DF

[@Jackdeath3]

You have no excuses not to do a DF Retro on Conker's Bad Fur Day at this point...

[@emmettturner9452]

Ugh.

[@turbochop3300]

@@emmettturner9452 You don't like Conker's BFD?

[@emmettturner9452]

@@turbochop3300 Bingo.

[@RetroTechSelect]

Signed in for DF Retro, got some MLiG as a bonus!

[@clutchkman]

I didn’t know about the s-video cable for the GameCube, thanks for mentioning that. Sounds like a good option coupled with the retrotink.

[@MrTomFTW]

That Retrotink might be the answer for not only my N64, but also my Amiga CD32... Hmmmmm...

[@Nukle0n]

I'm not sure. The Amigas traditionally output a 15khz RGB signal, you can get a cable that'll work with the OSSC but I don't think there's any way to connect it to the Retrotink without also using an RGB to YpBpR transcoder.

[@RighteousBruce]

OMG the Mischief Makers footage. I still have that game lol. Shake shake!

[@Lucromis]

When you’re shopping for n64 S-Video cables: don’t get any that include composite as well. All of those I found have awful checkerboard. Get S-Video only cables and watch reviews if it has a lot of noise or not still. It really is a minefield. That $25 one they mentioned may be worth it.

[@highlyevolv3d]

It’s hard to justify the price..honestly the best and easiest way to experience the N64 is a good CRT with an N64 S Video cable. Everything else is getting way too pricey for results that aren’t that good or even worse.

[@gordyowl9455]

Did I already commented on this video before? Well I got my Retrotink in late 2019 so I got it for the obvious reason to play it without lag and on a modern display, it's my solution to play my retro games downstairs bringing my SCART to Component transcoder to the Retrotink2x, Yes Mike Chi did his cool transcoder that has micro USB to power on the device so I might get for that and replace my transcoder upstairs where I have my CRT TV.

[@RedArremer]

One game I always found fascinating for how it renders clean, sharp graphics on the N64 is Doom 64. I was able to determine with the UltraHDMI mod that you do not need to turn on deblur function with this game. I'm assuming it somehow bypasses that low res blur by rendering in high res to the video buffer and then downsampling back to a 240p image. That's my best guess anyway, but the only other game I know of that does this is Quake 2. However, that game requires the expansion pak in order to pull off the same trick.

[@BLOODY__FATALITY]

Don't forget about the mclassic! It combines with these video options for an amazing combined experience!

[@sirlimen333]

Ewww... No.

[@niino4329]

Tim Worthington's RGB Kit itself costs 48AU$ (around US$ 33 or €29) and comes with everything you need, except the tools. It also has a nice switchable deblur-feature implemented by Borti4938. So if you can solder, this is by far the best option in terms of price-performance ratio in my opinion. Of course, the Ultra HDMI is even better again, but also much more expensive.

[@overwatch761]

Having been playing with ultra HDMI deblur and AA patches for the past two years... I've returned full circle to no deblur or AA patches. I picked up a 1200p LCD monitor, so I play the N64 with 1200p scaling combined with hybrid scanlines, 1.45 gamma and CRT bloom. The image is insanely authentic to CRT TV's and dare I say beautiful.

[@FilipeSantos-ud9zr]

I want to see how the n64 games looks with hdmi mod and mclassic plugged in!

[@SOAVFitness]

Filipe Santos did u try this yet?

[@j.e.j.4641]

Antoher great DF Retro, always a pleasure. Are you working on a DF analysis of Mutant Year Zero on the Switch? That game is in quite a state.

[@Tony78432]

There’s waitlists and no stock on mods right now for the N64. I use an Eon Super 64 paired with an MClassic it looks good enough on my HD TV. Everyone trash talks the Eon and recommends the RetroTink 2X but those are out of stock also last time I checked. Plus I’m only playing my N64 not any other retro consoles. The cost of the Eon + MClassic is comparable to what I would pay for a mod, add on top the costs and shipping associated with having someone install the mod for me The Eon and MClassic are more than sufficient for me personally.

[@perfectlyslicedegg3348]

OMG you show Goemon. So thats an insta like from me 15/10 would like again.

[@paulk7772]

Nintendo made an official RGB ouput console: the french version of the N64, only the board lacks the capacitors and componants.

[@tapedex]

Yes I have one. It’s glorious with RGB added back into the system. PAL RGB FTW.

[@retroland9703]

Yes

[@justanotheryoutubechannel]

Paul Kalogiannis It’s not any more RGB-capable than an early American N64, it’s just the only model of PAL N64 based off of the original American model. This means it can be RGB modded with a much simpler, cheaper board than the more advanced board that can work it’s any N64.

[@paulk7772]

It's possible but it's not a mod. Nintendo released a differant schematic of the Nintendo 64 motherboard with some room for an RGB output, not just composite and RF. Only at the last minute, they decided not to use it for some reason. All capacitors and transistors are numbered and their values already defined by Nintendo engineers. It's all written down. Just add what lacks on the board.

[@Ballowax]

Yeah but what am I gonna do with a french region N64 if it's problalbully a 50hz machine

[@MrAdam802]

Nice! I wanna see the Eon super 64 with the new mClassic

[@toddbot7545]

I've been waiting for this.

[@luismagallanes2371]

I have both a rgb mod with deblur firmware on a 20'inch BVM and the Ultra HDMI mod on a high end plasma tv. Both options are great. When I play by myself it's on the crt, but if i'm playing with people, its on the plasma.

[@DerFuhrer76]

I love these types of videos....nerding out with John!!

[@JJernqvist]

DF and MLiG are so made for each other!

[@dezm101]

N64 is one system that I have a real hard time seeing much difference between the mods and video out variations.

[@datamanmachine]

Believe me it makes a difference! I have a FRA Pal RGB moded N64 and a Ultra HDMI! Even the RGB N64 makes a huge difference with a Gamecube RGB Cable!

[@rx10]

@@datamanmachine "huge difference." Lmao Just play emulators

[@awesomeferret]

Oh cool you got Tom Hanks as a guest.

[@Fidelis1776]

Mischief Makers.... I'm done, Best Video of 21019

[@luispedro4045]

Oh come on, I was waiting for you guys to show Goldeneye in HDMI.

[@dreamcastfan]

Yeah the one thing I think this video is lacking is good side-by-side comparison footage of all the available options. Most of the footage of each device is using a different game and there’s very little direct comparison. That said, the N64’s output is quite blurry so I don’t think there would be that much in it. It would have been cool to see some GoldenEye with the 640x480 patch installed too. ;)

[@JAYCEEDOUBLE]

Yeah DF content has been lacking lately. Too much discussion type videos with 2 people talking instead of indepth analysis.

[@JelaniWood]

Timely as I'm hoping that when the eventual Switch "Pro" comes out there will also be an updated dock with co-processing for 4k upscaling which would end up being an official version of these 3rd party devices. They've done things like this before if you consider things like the Super GameBoy, 64DD, and N64 Expansion Pack. Not all quite the same I know but they were all post system release peripherals that added/updated the "graphics" and/or output.

[@killer1one1]

I just watched this entire video while piss-ass drunk. I have absolutely no idea what the fuck you just talked about. I also loved every second of it.

[@JuanDiaz-jo1rw]

If you plug the M Classic to the EON the N 64 looks amazing.. best choice ever. But yes like you said its expensive.. The EON should be around $50 to $60

[@dimitrios0072]

do you have those?

[@iamturokn64]

Nintendrew did a video to this products :)

[@ians_parks]

Theres nothing stopping you from also using the mclassic with retrotink2x

[@JuanDiaz-jo1rw]

@@ians_parks true,, but I just dont like the retro tink to much..

[@JuanDiaz-jo1rw]

@@dimitrios0072 yea,, I ordered 2 of them for my scart consoles

[@retroland9703]

For PAL territories out only options is emulators with ntsc roms for 60hz anyway these are good solutions for NTSC territories

[@ozzyp97]

NTSC consoles and games are often cheaper than PAL ones, at least where I'm from. You might have to find a PAL power supply, but modern TVs and even many later CRTs can handle the video signal just fine.

[@OldsXCool]

So if spending $150 doesn't bother you, you should get the Eon. Yeah.......guess what......that bothers me a lot.

[@Fulthrotle73]

Love my UltraHdmi

[@datamanmachine]

Me ,too!

[@Fulthrotle73]

@@datamanmachine could not imagine spending $150 for hdmi S-Video lol!

[@The-Fishkeeper]

I hope to get one installed at some point, currently using an older RGB mod.

[@ceff01]

The hdmi mods breaks after 2years gahahahahah my mate did 10 to sell 2years ago and all broke it burns the dac chip because it highers the clock speed haha gutted il stick with retrotink. I think you have a year left till its dead haha

[@KCarubia]

Thank you for this video! I bought an Eon Super 64 and have been going back and forth if I should have gotten a Retrotink 2X or an RGB mod instead. This video helped me realize the jump from s-video line doubled to 480p is not as significant of a jump to the RGB mod without the deblur. While the retrotink has many more functions I’d be chasing artifacts from bad cables and grounding problems. My one qualm is that the Eon is outputting 480p. I would have liked my TV to process a 480i signal with the bob interlacing and all.

[@dyland9209]

Most modern tvs can't handle 240i 480i without major input lag these days

[@midasmagnezone4282]

great video! I'd like to see you guys delve more into the Ultra HDMI since that is the high-standard for playing N64 on OG hardware. I like also how you discussed other options and the pros and of each while other videos were simply praising the Super64. also a small suggestion but I would love if you could put the name of a game somewhere on screen when gameplay footage of it is shown. thanks!

[@puma0085]

Awesome review John. The device does not to seem that bad and might be quite useful for some people that are willing to pay the price. I am retro enthusiast so stuff is nothing for me. I really have my pal N64 hdmi modded and my japanese N64 has a RGB Mod I use along with my framemeister and I am very happy with the results.

[@adesignersperspective]

love that ridge racer 64 soundtrack 👍👍

[@Syntherus]

I'm hearing the Super 64 combined with the mClassic is pretty breathtaking.

[@ians_parks]

Only if you care about anti aliasing

[@mjc0961]

Hands up if you too also said "Who is Mark from My Life in Gaming, I only know Coury and Try" 😅🤚

[@theshinken]

The Retrotink2x is awesome, but I would really appreciate it, if it was available in my country - or available at all. Every time I look it's out if stock.

[@rodskagg3328]

Nice intro/background music to this episode

[@tapedex]

Rodskagg what’s the guitar tune from again? It’s driving me mad. 😅

[@thiagovidal6137]

They all look like really bad options to me... I feel like if you wanna play N64, you either get hold of a CRT of the time or just emulate. A lot of hassle for those "in between" options that looks much worse than CRT or emulation.

[@sjake333]

Yeah the N64 is difficult. Famously has terrible video quality and lacking output options, but emulation has also traditionally been quite poor. More recently however, both Mupen64 Next and ParaLLEl have made huge strides to the point where software solutions may actually be preferable to the rather mediocre hardware solutions that exist.

[@justanotheryoutubechannel]

Emulation for the N64 is a fucking disaster area. It’s honestly not even in a stable enough state for you to just want to use it to casually play most games. The best option is an N64 RGB mod and a CRT. Emulation is worthwhile for Perfect Dark & Goldeneye, but it’s still a nightmare to get working.

[@dejiko]

@@justanotheryoutubechannel "Emulation for the N64 is a fucking disaster area" Maybe if you are still stuck in 2008. m64p by Logan Mcnaughton is an outstanding emulator than can play almost every game flawlessly and works right out of the box, with a nice qt5 frontend and plenty of customization on the plugin side of things. Sadly, the owner has decided to turn it into payware, so good luck finding the latest build for free.

[@mizurazu2500]

@@justanotheryoutubechannel It's really not that bad anymore.

[@ApexLodestar]

I love this content from DF 🖤

[@ryanmalin]

Been patiently waiting for this!!!

[@dreamcastfan]

I’ve got the Ultra HDMI mod, some games look better with de-blur on and some look better with it off. Scanlines also make a difference depending on the game too. I tend to find “realistic” looking games like GoldenEye look worse with de-blur on as it makes them look a bit scruffy and messy. The N64’s natural blurring would often hide sins. Nintendo games and more cartoony stuff look pretty sharp when de-blurred; although you can still spot unexpected things, e.g. the puff of dust kicked up when Mario skids doesn’t seem to actually be using any alpha blending and is instead just dithered, which the N64’s blurring would normally hide. Still, whatever you choose, it’s definitely worth getting something to connect your N64 to a modern TV as it’s an awesome console and I’ve been playing mine almost constantly since getting it modded a year or two ago.

[@soccerj75]

Nintendo 64 + Frameister + Scanlines = Best way to play on a modern day TV!

[@MrHakubi]

soccerj75 Scanlines? Is that a setting?

[@dude-zr8gi]

From what I heard, the EON device in this video works with SNES and GC, but with mixed results. The GC makes sense as to why it doesn't look as as the EON plug in for GC as this one only uses the S-Video from the system, instead of the hardware's 480p mode. Thing is, I would only pay $150 for a device like this if it did work at the best between all 3 systems. The N64 plug in should be half its current price at least, then people would be happier with it.

[@WednesdayMan]

The $150 price combined with the fact this'll only work with N64 SNES and Gamecube via S-video makes this worse than a retrotink, it's cool in concept and doesn't require a mini HDMI to HDMI adapter, but you don't really get much out of this other than support for 3 consoles (via altering the case) unlike the Retrotink 2x which supports anything with a composite, component and S-video output, and since VCRs exist, you can use it with RF signals from older consoles too if you want to, or use a VCR as a Composite Switch box (which is one of the many reasons people still own one)

[@HoldandModify]

I love both your channels. Trying to chose between the two? Aww man. That sucks. I do know who I'd chose if forced.

[@Joncryan]

There is one more option. If you use a super nintendo HDMI pound cable on an N64 it will not normally work as it islooking for an RGB signal to convert. If you have an RGB modded N64system then the pound super nintendo cable will work and is supposed to look a lot nicer than the hyperkin ones.

[@ians_parks]

Both have input lag though as well as incorrect color and brightness representation.

[@theshadowman1398]

Eon is ridiculously priced. Retrotink is a much better option

[@bradcarlson8349]

A relatively inexpensive HDMI-DSUB adapter will allow you to daisy chain either this, or the Retrotink 2X into an OSSC for line doubling up to 960P. The EON adapter's output would just be line doubled up to 960P with or without the smoothing option, but the Retrotink can be set up to use 2x via the default 480P output mode, or using 4X on the OSSC if you leave the Retrotink in bypass mode that only transcodes the 240P signal to digital via the HDMI out without processing. There are MLIG episodes that cover this usage of the Retrotink or other scalers daisy chained with the OSSC. I currently use this setup for my Gamecube as my other systems are connected via component directly to an OSSC and it works fairly well, though component cables, or a Carby would look a bit better.

[@pobbityboppity1110]

Where’s my gif of John waving around Daikatana 64

[@SeasonedYT]

Bad ass collab

[@sukidable]

I wish the ultrahdmi had something like the slick filter or the smoothing mode. Tho the scanlines help a LOT.

[@calebb7012]

16:35, the Carby option did the same thing, which was half the price.

[@MizoxNG]

wish I'd known about the retro-access S-video cables, I ended up spending $30 on an original nintendo-made one, and then having to add an RF-sleeve to it to get rid of all the external noise I was getting

[@Daniel-it1dp]

Man, I sure wish you guys came out with this video a few weeks ago before I bought an EON Super 64, I would have either gotten a Retrotink2X (no EON google searches even gave me any articles comparing the two). After seeing those pictures of poor workmanship on the EON 64 and the fact I haven't tried my yet I'm worried about mine.

[@lewiscob2112]

Great video! I’ve never heard anyone say compoz-it before.

[@omegawii]

You guys debating over how slightly better svideo is compared to composite. I was playing with coaxial because my mom didn't know what composite was. And next time bring Tom into a DF retro.

[@jerryg4534]

Great informative video... especially those that love to mod hardware. But thank God for emulation

[@xXRenaxChanXx]

Funny how none of these channels ever talk about audio. Audio matters just as much as picture quality whether you like it or not. And there are in-fact retro games that support Dolby Surround and in later cases, Dolby Pro Logic II. Why not discuss how to best make use of that feature? And no audio being "subjective" is not a good excuse.

[@slot9]

Thanks for covering these! Great to see more DF Retro X MLIG Collaboration

[@luke070610]

Retrotink plus the upcoming mclassic should make a nice improvement on your screen I would think.

[@shaun8062]

I have them and have been using them for months. They do look good together.

[@will1565]

When you look at all these projects, it's clear there is a market for these old games... It baffles me that Nintendo doesn't put all these games out on the switch. I'd snap up an official port of Mario Kart 64 in a flash considering its the best one... Yeah I said it wanna fight about it lol

[@nadiaholmquist]

I'm surprised you didn't mention using patches on a flashcart to disable the blurring/AA, it's a decent option on a stock N64 if sharp pixels in 3D games is what you want.

[@Nukle0n]

Using a Flash Cart or GameShark doesn't remove the same blurring that the VI Deblur of the Ultra HDMI.

[@formeitwastuesday.1515]

My 64 is rgb+deblur moded. I only play it on my hd crt and has an hdmi input. Hdmi mod is way too expensive right now. Should I get this product?

[@schizogony]

Today I learned his name is Marc.

[@Aristowi]

15:45 Blurry all the way, sharp pixels look bad and lack definition for text and graphics, shadows and smoke look pixelated, eyes look square instead of round. I love smooth options.

[@yolento]

At last, someone who shares my opinion. I just don't understand why people like that pixelated look that you can't even make a face from an ass and looks like a bunch of thorns. It never looked pixelated on a crt tv so it boggles my mind why people wouldn't want it to look round and smooth like a normal picture.

[@ozzyp97]

@@yolento It works a lot better for some games than others, but it's a nice feature to have. Especially in conjunction with the hybrid scan lines it can clean up the image quite a bit.

[@shaun8062]

Agreed, I wish to just have the graphics as similar as possible to what they look like on the CRT TV. Between the Ultra HDMI's ability to add scan lines but with very sharp pixels, and the EON "slick" smoothing filter creating a smoother and more defined look.. it's hard to choose between the two. However, at this time, Ultra HDMI consoles are selling for over 700 dollars. The EON Super 64 $150 plus an $80 console... seems to be a pretty easy way to go. Or, the retro-tink. I like the EON because it's so easy to plug and play, especially since I'm bringing my console to other people's houses OFTEN. That makes a difference. the exra 50 dollars is for convenience.

[@panikk2]

for anyone looking for cheap good quality s-video cables there is a link on reddit where two people are discussing this very topic and can link you to a seller on ebay who imports the correct s-video and ships from canada. i got one and it was worth it. i think it was like 10 bucks, maybe 15.

[@richm4100]

Wait for an FPGA based N64 to hit the market :). Sure Analogue will do one down the line

[@chrisfratz]

That's going to be a long wait though

[@isanchez64]

That would be awesome, however, Kevtris the Analouge engineer says that would be really complex to create. But man, hopefully it outputs 1080p if it even becomes a reality.

[@richm4100]

Maybe not right now, but sure it will eventually happen

[@OldsXCool]

Nope. Never gonna happen. Analogue doesn't have enough definitive research to steal to program a FPGA for the N64.

[@Nukle0n]

Kevtris Said he could make a PSX FPGA maybe but the N64 is way more complicated at a base level, so he doesn't see that happening anytime soon.

[@jeremyjulkowski4844]

I'm grateful that I still own two good working CRT TV's as I demand the genuine control precision of older gaming systems that's devoid of lag along with the abundance of nostalgia that compliment it! But is sad that every time I haul garbage of mine to my local city dump that I have to do my best to avert my eyes from the small mountain of decommissioned CRT's piled up awaiting their imminent destruction. There's still a viable and lucrative market out there for gaming CRT's, so people need to be mindful in that if they're going to relinquish those TV's and they still function normally, they should sell them, rather than have them destroyed.

[@paultucker3143]

Still watching, but with the question on the dithering on some N64 games around the 22 minute mark. The N64 computes in 24 bit but outputs 21 bit video. Imagine this results in some dithering.

[@gamebuyer22]

N64 frame rates were considered bad in the late 90s, early 2000s. Lots of games are unplayable now. Who would want to see that on 55 inch screen? Turok 2, 3, Perfect Dark, Banjo Tooie, Jet Force Gemini, Duke Nukem Zero Hour and several others.

[@MrHakubi]

S video? Don’t remember using that on my N64. I always had composite. Today I can plug it straight into my 4K Sony TV through component.

[@Deanster101]

Yikes composite on a 4K HDTV, that ain’t gonna look pretty!

[@MrLegendary0ne]

Stretched to hell and back. Lmao

[@Mithrie]

You know I didn't even think about salvaging my N64, I've been desperate for them to release remasters on the Switch. This might be a good alternative. Thanks for the video!