Did Apple just Kill Meta With the Vision Pro?

Marques, Andrew, and David discuss the new Apple Vision Pro which both Marques and David got to try at WWDC.
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[@Notremah]

Difference is apple is not trying to make a headset that escapes from reality. They want to monopolize the new landscape of “ visual internet”. It’s literally ripping your media out of the screen age and moving it to a medium that uses the surroundings as the canvas for spatial media. It’s a brilliant approach.

[@marwin4348]

They are completely missing software that uses that tho atm. Literally every app they showed was just 2d screens, but virtual. The homescreen was basically a 2D screen too. What they need is to make the software actually make use of 3D. Like the controls are arranged in a car. All around you.

[@jaspermooren5883]

Well it's brilliant, but the idea far from revolutionary. This has been a staple of the cyberpunk genre since the 80s.

[@koenignero]

LOL so thats why they showed just lonely people in the presentation wearing this thing. I will certainly not talk to anyone where i just see the eyes on a screen like fu...ing android

[@jaspermooren5883]

@@koenignero well, I was more talking about the idea of integrating the digital world with the real world (the real promise of AR). In most cyberpunk worlds it's either a set of glasses, or even a neural link or cybernetic eyes or something. This is very clearly a solution that is possible with current technology (evidently), but indeed non-ideal. It is a very interesting step though.

[@cap-advaith]

Andi …..

[@scikick]

I would love for this to go mainstream as a productivity tool. I could be in my home office, working with my co-workers.

[@AndreLuizSilva]

I believe it will. Apple will make another one more mainstream. I believe that's why they called this one "pro".

[@nycameleon]

it would be nice to have your virtual team in a space where you could look over someone's shoulder and get work done from home office

[@Lostcause1974]

I mean, the Hololens already exists.

[@virdinbarzey3805]

Sorry Tech companies want you back in the office...lol

[@user-jt1jv8vl9r]

In fact Apple themselves want their staff back in the office!

[@Leesome]

I think a game changer will be when multiple devices understand where each other are in common space. One of the big challenges of any of these devices is the disconnect between users from the "real world" which this device starts to address in a big way. The next challenge is then the disconnect in content between multiple people using devices at the same time. So, for example, imagine 4 people in a room editing a single 3d model on a table that's viewed relatively between all users in real space.

[@vgaportauthority9932]

The disconnect from the real world is kinda the point for VR. Once you're in VR, it doesn't really matter where the other people you're working with are. They could be miles away or in the same room, you're still going to be just as much in the same space regardless. Games like Rec Room lets multiple people edit the same map at the same time, and it's pretty sweet imo. Devs just need to find a way to do this for other things, like office apps and stuff like that. Meta has something like that but I've never tried it. Meta Workrooms or something like that.

[@philipwrighton]

So if you start looking at what VR/Ar Companies bought. You would find a VR Conference App that was beyond its time(Spaces). I wanna put money down that they're already planning on this cause that company had a working model of what you were talking about. That was years before Apple even bought them; I can't imagine where that tech is now and what they're doing. Apple may "stagger' or nerf their devices on purpose because they want it better optimized, I bet and not be super bad and rushed like other companies.

[@JamesCobalt]

Quest Pro (and presumably the upcoming Quest 3) can do that. Tilt Five does as well though that is not a general purpose XR device.

[@jegorius]

@@JamesCobalt There’s so many things not even these professional reviewers seem to be aware the Quest is able to do already 🤯

[@thehypequeeng7690]

That’s just software that is so easy when we have this hardware. It’ll happen

[@Jrakula10]

I think the eyes feature is really good for people who are not wearing the headset. it makes it so you are actually being acknowledged and not talking to a wall. i wish more headsets do this to some effect.

[@tyler.walker]

@@thepatrikperspective It adds no value to the user, only value to those around the user. Jokes on Apple, I already don’t take my headset off when people are around me 😂

[@brunopr9]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@Treyson31 The display is made from glass which is very light, and also, humans tend to maintain eye contact when engaged so mimicking ours eye is the best solution. Apple doesn’t like small LED because it makes the product appear cheap, it’s 3500$ so they have enough budget and don’t need to put a LED and say ”that’s it guys, buy!”

[@ruschein]

@@Treyson31 You don't understand how important eyes are to human communication! Also, I do want the people around me to see more than a little LED when I communicate with them because communication with my visitors is really important to me and I see this functionality as making it far more likely that I won't feel compelled to take this device off when there is someone else in the same room with me.

[@ruschein]

I think that's only prudent! I do expect it to look amazing based on various reports, some from people that I respect but also based on the specs which are really impressive. I will likely also try it out in an Apple store with a close friend who is also considering getting a Vision Pro. We're still many months away from being able to actually buy one and I am sure we'll be getting plenty more information about this device by then.

[@now_its_dark]

It is surprising to see so many folks saying that the external display provides no benefit to the user. I think this is akin to saying that eye contact during conversation only benefits the person you are speaking to.

[@abmstudio3678]

This headset is the first one that makes me feel like the future is here. It feels like once other companies copy it and make it better and cheaper. That would mean vr/ar is here.

[@vgaportauthority9932]

The second this quality can be had for 600 bucks OR you can get it on a contract like a phone, that is the second this takes off for realsies. If people can watch sports in this with their virtual buddies, I think that might draw a whole new crowd at 600 bucks. Sports tickets are amazingly expensive, and lots of people live away from where their team plays, maybe they are across the country from the people they used to watch sports with. This kind of AR/VR stuff could be amazing for friend groups to reconnect with each other or stay connected. So far it's all rested on VR games. That's a niche. Watching sports is HUGE.

[@HesselFolkertsma]

A future of people walking around with these all day long is not a future I want 🫣

[@kimm.8718]

@@HesselFolkertsma Why not? I feel the same way, but I don’t know why.

[@HesselFolkertsma]

@@kimm.8718 Because you’re a sane human being! Human beings are social creatures. We need real contact, not just another gadget to distract ourselves from interacting with each other. Look at how much smartphones have had an impact on social behaviour, not just imagine how much more insane things would be if headsets like these were mainstream.

[@TamasKiss-yk4st]

Others can't really copy this, they can't even catch up to M1 chip (nobody was able to even answer to that from 2020), and the other manufactures chip has crappy low performance integrated GPU, you need to buy a pretty expensive laptop with dedicated GPU to make a good calculation capacity, also you need a 7.1 sound system to buy if you want the spatial audio too etc (all of this built-t inside the headset, others doesn't have the performance on that size what can fit inside a headset, they need to catch up to M1, and improve the performance even more, like Apple will release M3 before they do that)

[@iamdanielmonroe]

I know people have referenced Ready Player One before with regards to the Vision Pro, but one thing I would love to see which they used in the film are the haptic gloves which can give you a more realistic sensation when playing a game or even just feeling the “click” when scrolling or selecting things.

[@barrywhite6060]

they probably will eventually.

[@aeontars]

Knowing some of the insane tech apple uses I wouldn’t be surprised if some day the Apple Watch can vibrate in a way that tricks your mind into thinking your fingers felt a ‘click’.

[@sgodsellify]

Why do you think all VR gaming platforms come with hand controllers. For two major reasons. 1) haptics, so users can feel some feedback. 2) hand controllers come with multiple buttons, triggers, thumbsticks, and some come with touchpads. There users can rapidly input multiple events simultaneously, which is completely missing from Apple's Vision Pro platform. This is why I don't see Apple's Vision Pro headset becoming a competing VR gaming platform.

[@InnovativeSaint]

That and haptic suit

[@AbdulAzeez-up4nw]

@@sgodsellify when it comes to gaming apple is very late to the party everytime. They dont really have a single “gaming device” but recently especially with the last macos update i think apple is focusing more on game’s than before . Many vr games can be played with regular ps controller’s but if sony makes vr controllers separately after the market grows then apple could come into the gaming platform

[@glime28]

Can you flip the camera on the Vision Pro to show your live environment on FaceTime? I think there’s a lot of room for integration with iOS / iPadOS for when you have those family FaceTime sessions with several people in the room. It’ll be very interesting to see what apple comes up with

[@cheeseswears]

Yea you can flip the camera like an iPhone. And take regular pics and videos on the headset too.

[@captainobvious1415]

A obvious use case is 2 people with a vision pro watching them same movie in the same room, or two different places

[@michaelcreek3813]

@@captainobvious1415 Aka, a feature Apple already has with SharePlay.

[@AnashaCummings]

Yeah, being able to take other people into real time experiences seems like a major use case here, if it can transmit full 3D streams to others with apple vision headsets. Related: can it film video without you wearing it? I have heard a lot of people cringing about the dad filming the son blowing out candles, but is there any reason he would have to be wearing it at the party?

[@jonnym4670]

its gonna fail like google glass

[@sebsteeno6347]

For me the eyes on the outside are for the person(s) in the room with them to make them know when the person wearing the headset can see you. If you're communicating with someone with a headset on it's nice to know they can see you to. Talking to them while having eyes is important, otherwise you're talking without seeing the eyes and that disturbs connection.

[@beachdj309]

ONE MORE THING! Waveform should outro one more thing!

[@mrpratster]

Microsoft Hololens base was $3500 and goes up from there. Since Vision Pro is a "pro", I think the pricing is totally reasonable and it is much better based on all the reviews I seen, from the people who tried it on. I (we/my company) have hololens to try out and after 2 sessions, it's gathering dust now. Bad investment for $3500. It's so clunk and heavy. I think Vision Pro will be much more useful both for business and consumer use.

[@YvanDaSilva]

It's also a lot older. This field is very new. In the last 5 years a lot has changed. You can't compare.

[@dan-crum]

Hard to believe a headset made out of metal and glass will be much lighter than a hololens tbh

[@taytoyaddic7ed881]

@@YvanDaSilva You can compare, he just did, it's newer and better for the same price. It's pragmatic, not an allegiance to a company.

[@elivelive]

​@@YvanDaSilva he totally forgot about that

[@LordCyler]

Hololens came out in 2016

[@UncleJessy]

They will 1000% release handsets/controllers for this. iPad took a few years before we got the Apple Pencil and originally Jobs said they’d never do a stylus.

[@Dog3D]

Considering how seamless and responsive the clicking and eyetracking seems to be, I'm not so sure about that but also wouldn't doubt it. The issue with stylus is that it was much more percise and takes less effort than dragging your thick ass finger around the screen to draw or write. The Vision pro seems to have less effort and more precision for most people when it comes to input

[@pplfthftr7526]

You can use game controllers with it as well as keyboard/trackpad

[@VoxKaizen.]

@@Dog3D true the only use case I see for a marketable handheld controller is gaming. The tactile feel is how player truly lock in to those motor movements. Vr and Ar gaming is great but controlling a character is a completely different experience than being the character.

[@official_ninjadoc]

They possibly killed the Quest Pro (wasnt that difficult either) but they have nothing on the Quest. They are so wildly different it seems ignorant to compare them.

[@k.vn.k]

People will still compare them, we need to educate those.

[@bg5426]

In my opinion this open the opportunity for other companies to come up with somewhat similar headsets. Now meta cam add similar sensors because apple did it. Imagine if meta was first with a headset with all these sensors. Internet was gonna blow up because of "privacy concerns".

[@Mntrmaheffa]

Yeah, Meta couldn't afford to go all in with eye tracking because of their brand, but now that it's "industry standard" no one will be surprised. They have it in their Quest Pro but it's barely used, some guy on KZbin managed to code and make the similar "look and pinch" on quest pro.

[@vgaportauthority9932]

Samsung has reportedly been scrambling for parts to make their own "clone" of this for the past months. I think Apple entering this space will have a MASSIVE effect on other consumer electronics companies. When Apple joins the frey, it adds SO MUCH credibility, and the XR space has had a credibility issue for a year or more now. Meta really did everything they could to make VR look unbelievably lame... They broke my VR loving heart with their "Hey, what if VR was just a cubicle where you can slave away all day long?" strategy...

[@rbob1973]

This is one of those moments during keynotes or sorry.... WWDC that will be remembered.... Been a long time coming. I remember watching the release of the iPhone back in 2007... As apple mentioned back then, they did not invent most of the products, they looked at the pros and cons of other devices, then just made them better. iPod, they introduced a touch wheel. The iPod classic was just a wheel that had directional arrows and an inner wheel that would be used to scroll up and down the play list. The mouse, this was effectively taken from when jobs was at HP and saw that they had a pointing device, which apple introduced to the Mac family. So with the iPhone, they saw that some companies were using a stylus (YUK), they got rid of the input device as a separate peripheral and said, we already have a pointing device, our fingers. For the iPhone then, the fact that it ran OSX was a major break through. iPad was brought about from a dinner party in which a Microsoft employee was bragging about a tablet that they were working on. He noticed that what they had done is just take a laptop with a screen that would fold back on itself. Next day, he went into the office and announced they would be designing a tablet. Vision Pro will extend obviously as the tech gets cheaper. Batter tech develops further and enables it to be within the headset rather than external. Just like the iPhone, the vision pro is probably years ahead in which other companies are producing.

[@jakub_zawadzki]

It's absolutely not, this isn't at all different from what Microsoft did with Hololens years ago. Apple is just pretending that it's a new thing.

[@mxskmg4]

@@jakub_zawadzki just like they did with the iPhone. Smartphone already existed and the iPhone was only marginally better. It’s always been about marketing.

[@breadone_]

@@jakub_zawadzki thats not really giving it enough credit, its like saying the first iphone was nothing new because the razr had been around for years before then

[@chaim5397]

Lol the tech has always been out there, y’all Apple fans delusional

[@breadone_]

@@chaim5397 if the tech has always been out there, why hasn’t anyone made it yet?

[@chartingwithliv]

The eye feature has to be the biggest thing, honestly even though you dont actually see them and the camera actually creates the vision its still cool

[@Stanley-px3bt]

Is it cool enough to cost $3500.00?

[@danisaksson3214]

@@Stanley-px3bt As far as tech goes, most of what Apple is doing here has already been done or is already being developed in the space of mixed reality. The only other thing I can think of is the knob for the seamless transition from AR to VR and vice versa, but seeing the eyes on the front is definitely the most substantially different thing that nobody else has done or is doing in this space right now.

[@tintin.404]

​@@Stanley-px3bt Yes. More.

[@mikldude9376]

@@danisaksson3214 by all means show us a product that has all these things in one package that works seamlessly ?

[@jensenraylight8011]

@@Stanley-px3bt yes, is is worth paying less like $1500 meta quest pro, where you're stuck in place, isolated and you can't Communicate with other people without having to put down your headset? basically with all the existing VR headset out there, you lose the real world for virtual world. this Apple headset gave you the Real world and Virtual world uncompromised. i know, but pass through alone is a lazy fix that doesn't fix the real problem. you can barely read anything with that blurry and pixelated screen. Don't compare Apple vision pro with iphone or ipad pro, this is a Mac level hardware on a headset, and why would you pay less than Macbook pro 16 inch for techs and sensors that above and beyond your Macbook pro? that price alone is a steal especially when you see the comparable headset cost $7000 i think you're too good for this headset, go play with your google cardboard cheapskate, it cost nothing

[@johnvargo8050]

I've been thinking about potential applications for this and it occurred to me that QR codes + AR models could be really powerful. You drop a card with a QR code in your field of view, look at it and click, and an AR model pops out of that target. What an amazing sales opportunity.

[@michaelberglund7451]

Like the Microsoft Hololens you mean?

[@johnvargo8050]

@@michaelberglund7451 I would think any AR/VR device would be capable of it. I'm not really talking about a device, but more of an application for these devices.

[@00SNIVY00]

Every time I hear it talked about, it just sounds so cool. I've told other people I'm not going to buy it, but it's definitely something I want to try.

[@jonathanziebarth9663]

I’ll know within a few seconds of trying it. If it’s as good as they make it look, then it replaces my three monitor + laptop + ipad + TV workspace. Gotta stress though, the user experience has to be at least as pleasant as my current set up or it’s a no go. I need to enjoy being in that space. If it is that good though, and it looks like that’s what Apple is aiming for, then not only is it a great value, but also a true game changer.

[@dtz1000]

​@@jonathanziebarth9663 With a two hour battery life, there's no chance it could replace a laptop.

[@johnmickey5017]

If the laptop is used docked 95% of the time, like most are, there is no barrier to relacement.

[@kylecastellino6402]

​@@dtz1000 this is the first generation. Eventually the battery life will improve.

[@00SNIVY00]

@@kylecastellino6402 I'm sure there will also be an accessory to use it wired, if not being able to charge the battery during use. A really cool option would be a dual battery system, letting you charge one at a time while you use the other. An accessory like DJI's battery hubs, or like the RunHood power station.

[@blu2194]

Imagine walking to the bus and a banner ad pops up at the bottom of your eyes vision

[@EnochGitongaKimathi]

Perhaps in future they will also have a companion external camera like the Xbox Kinect (though smaller and more elegant) that can be used to produce a true to life scan of you and the environment so that we can have a fully immersive video conferencing experience. Maybe the external camera can be an existing device like the iPhone or MacBook. When multiple people wearing the headsets are in the same physical space, their headsets can be used to scan each other and reproduce their images and movements in the digital virtual space.

[@scientia8442]

The expertise in this round is so low... Around ~2:00 it's said that with other headsets you can only be in virtual reality. However, other headsets like Quest Pro do offer mixed reality / passthrough. Heck, even Quest 2 has a rudimentary passthrough. Quality is of course a different question but that's where Quest 3 might be promising that according to Meta offers higher-quality mixed reality than Quest Pro even and hits the market way earlier (in September) than Apple Vision Pro.

[@AlexAugustinex]

I think this was really good for Meta. Apple just made VR and AR so popular not cause the product, but the price. The initial user reviews and demos were amazing, most major news outlets took up the news too. Now everyone wants to feel VR/AR. Most people will never consider apple cause $3500, duh, and others don't have the patience to wait an year. So they'll look for other similar products and behold...The Quest 2 and soon to release Quest 3 strategically introduced just before Apple's event. The quest 3 is sitting there with a sexy $500 pricetag with more content and does about 85% of what Apple's product does. People will definitely jump on that. Now that $500 feels much cheaper thanks to the extra $3000 by Apple. So at the end of the day Meta won. Also if Apple's product wins, Meta now now has a bigger market and motivation to develop a premium product and sell it cheaper without the "Apple Tax". Win user, Win Meta...

[@DashFlashTheLife]

Meta sucks ass and the metaverse is a failed concept

[@theoneonly5368]

You sound like Ballmer when the iPhone came out. You are oh so wrong. And to be clear, metas inferior product does about 10% of what Apple does. The Vision Pro has set the standard. Why hasn’t VR caught on in the past 10 years since meta started? Because it’s trash. You use it for 3-4 minutes at Best Buy then leave. Vision Pro is so good it’s almost an extension of your own eyes, it’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen in our lifetime. And, as Apple said “the most advanced personal electronic device ever made”. That says enough. People will most certainly buy that. Game over.

[@Davyjones5454]

Could you use Apple Vision to drive or fly a plane where it can project important information in VR

[@thesayin]

Imagine this Apple has launched a product that is not a toy. It is a tool that will replace every screen in our life.! Meta is selling a toy, like playstation, you can use it for gaming and entertainment but even those experiences are mediocre at best. Apple will do with it did with iPhone to Blackberry, Nokia and bunch of other companies. The price will come down and eventually adoption rate will be much higher.

[@Leynad778]

Have you ever wear a VR headset for an hour? Spoiler: It gets uncomfortable and you want to put it off and the AVP will not be different.

[@Shinyshoesz]

Semi-long time VR user here and been following this tech closely for a while. This headset really isn't meant to be direct competitor to Meta's offerings at all imo. The Quest 3 which will release around a similar time frame isn't nearly as technically advanced but it's much lighter, has tons of great features, and is compatible with high-end PCVR experiences (not to mention it's rumored to be around 500 bucks, which is quite literally 7 times cheaper). It's just the beginning of two different types of experiences. (Also passthrough in the Quest 3 and beyond will become better and better and make switching between contexts much easier/smoother). The only real thing that I can see Apple succeeding in right now over most modern headsets is the UI/eye tech being so crisp and the headset being 4k per eye. But that won't be true for too long!

[@sparky6757]

You mentioned when talkin about the digital crown that people don’t like to be cut off from their surroundings, thus so far, VR has pretty much just been for gaming. Here’s the thing, though - what else does it *need* to do? It’s *cool* to be able to see what’s functionally a hologram, but what benefit does it grant to have a bunch of digital screens over a physical screen? The closest thing it comes to replacing is a phone, as that’s not something you’ll be sharing the screen with someone else often, for your eyes only. Slap a SIM or ESIM in it, make major strides in the battery life, and you’ve got a totally valid phone alternative. But here’s the thing - why would I choose to use a phone that can have multiple big floating screens, but at the cost of - total lack of tactility - weight on my head all day - looking like a dork - $3500

[@soulinspiration1]

OK after hearing Brownlee, I think removing eyesight feature is how Apple will make a model that cost less. Notice I didnt say "affordable" but "cost less".

[@BrianUnderwoodCodes]

One wild thing that hasn’t been talked about because Apple hasn’t bragged about it: on the recent The Talk Show with John Gruber they mentioned that the front display is a curved lenticular display that they use Tom’s show *different* views of your eyes to *different* people who are at different angles, so it’s supposed to look like it really is an open front, not just your eyes pasted onto a surface. Probably nobody doing the demos saw that because they were using the device, not watching somebody use it.

[@zand]

Apple’s strategy with augmented / extended reality was already quite explicit with their AirPods and how they let you choose the degree of isolation / integration between real and virtual spaces. This headset is its implementation for vision.

[@james45478]

If you have a battery pack to wear already, I think a slightly different version in the product line could/should be one where most of the processing is with the battery. That would reduce the weight of the headset and remove the heat load if you actually do some more intense processing (also have a fan that would prevent throttling and not create fan noise issues). Also they should release an 3d action camera and add that feature to future iphones. It would be weird to see people recording video on a headset in most circumstances.

[@KonohasYeIlowFlash]

It might be dangerous to move the processing to the battery because of its detach-ability. People will misplace it, and then you’re left with nothing. Losing just a battery would suck, but it’s not the end of the world. As for the 3D camera, I totally agree. It would make sense to allow the iPhone to record these videos that you can enjoy with a Vision Pro headset. It is too weird to record a memory with a ridiculous headset on.

[@spoorthyv]

Cooling down the processor effectively is gonna be really hard if it was stuffed in your pocket

[@james45478]

@@spoorthyv True but I would want to clip it to my waist instead of putting it in my pocket. The cool factor is out once you have goggles on your head. Personally, I would sacrifice the convenience and security of the pocket over the weight, heat, and throttling. My use case would probably be 90% at home or in the office for a product like this anyway.

[@brunopr9]

@@KonohasYeIlowFlash iPhone can’t display 3D footage so the feature would be useless for people that don’t won a 3500$ VR

[@Patrick-ik1fo]

Apple had a patent that put processor and battery together but a downside of this is that probably increases the latency

[@KrzysztofGnutek]

My take on the AR vs. VR is that AR suits everyday life & work really well, while VR is the go to for entertainment.

[@philippemiller4740]

Love the ending 😂

[@ejkboxing]

$3,500 vs $250 is not a killer. Meta is VR & Apple Vision is a computer that does VR. Imagine how badly that thing is going to work when it starts slowing down like every computer inevitably does. People are going to snatch that thing off & smash it in frustration.

[@morphos2]

The "eyes looking back at you" (as you've described it) is a new paradigm necessary to maintain consistency throughout all of the next Apple Vision hardware generations and the all around experience. As a developer on VisionOS you'll need to be cognoscente of the new Human Interface Guidelines since they'll be valid even for the new, very light, full transparent, no bezels, Apple Vision glasses. Pretty cool!!

[@NoX-512]

That screen is one of the dumbest features I’ve seen in XR 😂. If you wear a headset in public or in face to face social settings, you’re a weirdo.

[@marktrain9498]

Dude, check your NDA before you get sued.

[@morphos2]

@@marktrain9498 :D

[@louiepenya]

Best part of the video was the ending when we are asked to subscribe. I actually bursted out laughing. Great Job!

[@seokinchung]

over 10 years ago, I thought google glass looked absurd to wear in public. But guess what. 10 years later, look at what tech companies are expecting people to wear in public.

[@Aggie4life77]

And here is exactly where people like you are confused. Devices like AVP are nothing like the Google glass. Google glass can was a basic device only showing you minimal info as you wore them throughout the day. It was marketed as something you wore all the time. It was not offering what AVP offers at all. Where would you put a Mac book in a pair of glasses and also, where are you going to get that immersion experience. The AVP os a product mainly worn in the home and you can use it on a plane. This is not meant to be worn like glasses all day. A product like google glass was pointless because you had a phone in your pocket and it added little value throughout your day with the limited info it provided. The Smart Watch makes more since!

[@MaxTsyba]

​@@Aggie4life77 The were actually many great use cases for Glasses. For example, with them you could film a video with both hands free, without taking you out of an actual experience by constantly staring at your phone to make sure everything fits in a frame. It also allowed you to see, for example, navigation hints while you're on bicycle. Or check recent notifications when both your hands are busy (for example, you're washing your dog). The concept behind Glasses was really good, and I'll never understand why Google buried it so fast. The "privacy concerns" theory doesn't stand up for me, because Google could have easily solved it by adding a bright red light indicator which is always on while glasses do record something.

[@TyKix]

It will be interesting that Mike Rockwell said in a interview recently that the Facetime avatar could be a full body volumetric capture in the near future on Vision Pro

[@olbtube]

The excellent pass through and eyes outside are the feature which will normalize people walking around with this on permanently, and we'll get used to it like we got used to people walking around with mobile phones, or even talking to themselves with an in-ear headset... This is a huge advantage over other vr headsets (and for sure patented as heck).

[@chaim5397]

Y’all are tweaking

[@yapcityreen]

Good point, if we expect technology growth to continue exponentially I could totally see this getting to a super mainstream place in the future

[@well7885]

@@yapcityreenexactly… remember how people though AirPods looked weird and made fun of it so much. Now you cannot step outside without seeing AirPods. We are extremely adaptable and we get used to things easily. This is gonna be just one of those things

[@Hirnlego999]

Hah, no, the battery life is abysmal. And many describe it as too heavy. Even having the powerbank with a cable will be problematic

[@olbtube]

@@Hirnlego999 for now, but that s a gen 1 problem, accepted by early adopters, gen 2 and 3 will be the products for mass adoption

[@Freak80MC]

As a trans person, I wish these companies would stop trying to make avatars just look like you irl. Even for people who aren't trans, I still think they would rather want custom avatars that can be creative and any way or shape or form they want to be. That's the entire appeal of things like VRChat. Being able to be anyone or anything you want to be. I feel like it's so limiting and boring just making your avatars default to you irl but in a digital form.

[@michaelfurness8050]

I’m so pumped for this to release. I wonder what it’s going to be like to use every day

[@naf546]

"Virtual reality headsets you're only allowed to be in VR" Not true. There's pass through mode on the Quest 2 (and 3), where you can use apps while seeing the real world around you.

[@theangrykorean]

I still have my old Canon A2E 35mm camera which had "eye controlled" focus. I loved how intuitive is was.

[@magickbaz8518]

i don’t honestly understand how other people think this headset can be anything under 2k, 3.5k is a bit expensive but certainly worth it. just the sheer amount of cameras it has and those 2 ultra highdefinition screens for the eyes? how can you expect those to be cheap? people just be hating apple for anything.

[@TmPGEO923423421]

Imagine putting the eye tracking tech into a MacBook. This would be an entirely new way to navigate an UI. As a bonus you could also use geatures, like get cross eyed twice to close the app

[@marvincuche]

I think more like Apple TV.

[@jensenraylight8011]

This!, yes, this is underrated. this combination is ultimate, imagine watching youtube while eating, and you can just pause, change video or open new tab with glance alone. i think this eye tracking tech is even bigger than touchscreen or trackpad

[@MXALOVE]

As long as they don't pull a Home Pod and put care into it, the product line would be more popular than any other headset. Not this one, but definitely when it's around 1k$.

[@TroyArn]

apple is on to something big refusing to make controllers for their headset. if and when it does play games, i love that i can repetitively use the muscles in my hands to press triggers and buttons. i think it's such a great idea that i've decided to build a house with just my hands. i'm going to chop wood and hammer nails with them. it might take a while, but as soon as the massive calluses build up and i've surgically replaced all the bones with titanium, i'm gonna be in business. screw tools!

[@TamasKiss-yk4st]

PS and Xbox controllers are working for most of the iPhone/iPad apps, and rhis also running those apps. Apple just don't want to release a product what is about the same like the others do, if they can't do significantly better like the currently existing, than they just don't do it (this is the same for the calculator on iPad, there are few hundreds downloadable calculator in the app store, and they only can do one on that quality, than why should they do it? The 201th same product is meaningless, without any extra benefit, why they should put any effort into it?)

[@michaelberglund7451]

Already wrong in the first two minutes... If you doubletap the Meta Quest 2 or Pro it switches to camera view. How is this even possible to not know when comparing?

[@JoeLeonardo]

By the time this releases Apple will have also announced a ton of peripherals for it. The $3500 price tag is going to be for a bare bones experience.

[@joez833]

Vision Pro charging station --- $299

[@Stanley-px3bt]

A pink plastic headset protective case will cost you $499.00.

[@nafnaf0]

They need to create a ladder of products to make the $3500 price tag seem more reasonable

[@vgaportauthority9932]

The 3500 dollar price is the base model btw. If you want more storage, they'll be happy to sell you a 3899 headset.

[@Stanley-px3bt]

@@vgaportauthority9932 The 256 GB model, yes. 🤣

[@sproket343]

"Did Rolls Royce just kill Hyundai with the new Phantom?" No... No they didn't.

[@sidney1234usc]

Well the quest 2 does have a feature called space sense where it can tell when someone walks into the boundaries whether it's a pet, small child, or person you can see that person or thing as they're walking through your boundary

[@tyler.walker]

I love my Quest 2, but Space Sense with IR cameras + no eye-tracking + screen-door’d displays means I definitely look forward to getting an Apple Vision Gen 2 or 3 :)

[@sidney1234usc]

@@tyler.walker yeah I love mine too but I love my pico 4 more lol I'm going to get the vision pro and enter into the apple ecosystem but I will mostly be using that headset for entertainment basically like a replacement for my TV and be able to FaceTime people while doing so

[@ilikestuff8218]

@@tyler.walker Quest 2 doesn't have screen door display (that's Quest 1) and Quest 3 has an even better one with pancake lenses with a depth sensor. Also they're not even the same thing. Quest has games, it's more of a gaming device. Apple Vision Pro is more like a Hololense or Magic Leap.

[@nafnaf0]

2:01 "or that kind of stuff" MKBHD just gives a subtle nod..

[@michaelchen2718]

15:20 I think we all disagree with you. VR has a very compelling set of use cases.

[@toututu2993]

Right now the use case is gaming and the fps in vr is so next level even with a weak Quest 2 processing power and okay tracking lol flatscreen already reached 100% potential like 2 decades ago while vr is at 1% right now. See the huge different?

[@Miguel.L]

I don’t see myself using an AR headset out in the open, I’m mostly just interested in the at-home VR experiences, seems like AR would be better for work scenarios or for fitness, like imagine you’re speaking to a friend and their eyes suddenly just stare into space because they got a text message, yeah, no thanks, I’ll just stick to home use for now

[@Davyjones5454]

Some idiot gonna use it to drive a car. Or imagine your waiter wearing it to serve you.

[@StuartConsulting]

My Meta headset is gathering dust, the biggest disappointment is the resolution, you are still looking at a pixelated image. Apple eventually nailed the “retina” concept on their iPhone and iPad, where the pixel density is so packed it looks like natural vision. If they achieve this with the headset they have a winner.

[@JD-gc7lt]

This thing has a full 4k display PER EYE (or should I say per Retina?), so I think there's a solid chance they've nailed it

[@knighthonor44]

The FaceTime avatar is for doing in VR space presentations like group work while everybody has a video projection of themselves, you will have an avatar. Because you can't do normal FaceTime while you are in the VR space. Meta has similar concept of this with Horizon Workrooms but it's not complete

[@baihubandit4588]

Apple straight up said it will work with normal FaceTime calls. It’s nothing like Meta.

[@braydennturner]

The one thing that gets me is the size of the external battery. Why not have multiple battery sizes? Personally, I'd rather have a larger battery if it's just going in my back pocket. The connection of the battery pack should also be USB-C.

[@k.vn.k]

Possibly in the future if not 3rd party would, which I can see already.

[@rg975]

For half the price, maybe. But when it costs 10x as much, most people will gravitate towards the much more affordable option. I really admire how much farther ahead Apple is pushing VR though. AV is legitimately 2-3 generations ahead of everything else on the market

[@Iamfeartheviper]

lol, I don't understand how people praise Apple for making a AR/VR product, while hating Meta for doing the same. Yes, the product is better but its 3500$ while a Meta quest is 500$ while being applicable to a wider set of user cases such as; games and fitness with a better battery bank.

[@Johnbastian25]

I think the term "spatial computing" actually gives a big clue to the direction Apple want to go in. I once recall reading somewhere that some business guy had completely ditched their computer/laptop in favour of solely using their iPhone for all their computing needs. I'm sure some people also do the same with iPads, i.e. not using anything else but the iPad for their computing needs. So I think, with the Vision Pro, Apple is trying to push in the direction where it's possible to use solely use Vision Pro without any other devices. Would this be everone's cup of tea? Certainly not (not for me at least), but it should be possible (at least once Apple figures out longer battery life in future revisions). Ofc, I'm not convinced solely using Vision Pro, especially with the virtual keyboard, where you have to look at every character to type; such a simplified text input would be restrictive to power users (especially developers), so at the very least that's a hurdle that needs to be addressed. But for some users, I can imagine them eventually ditching their other computers, solely for Vision Pro. As for the EyeSight thing; while everyone's laughing and meming about it, I'm actually kinda glad that Apple's thinking about a way to de-isolate technology. With phones nowadays, everyone is glued to it, walking around like zombies; what do you think is going to happen if VR/AR headsets become mainstream at some point? So people saying it's an unnecessary cost - I don't agree. Modern technology isolates it more ways than people realise (despite the paradox of the internet connecting the world and making communication near instant) - so anything that can alleviate this should be seen as a good thing.

[@scpdatabase969]

They said infinite use time when plugged into the computer or power source instead of the battery. 2H is more than enough for general use. I’m excited for the product. I’m putting $3500 into Apple stock and letting it sit until the product launch. This means never buying an iPad, Mac, or TV for me, though even tho I was considering those before this product announcement. As someone with the Steam VR, I thought it was too clunky for long term use. Can’t wait for the Vision Pro.

[@Aggie4life77]

Now that I think about it, I think Meta had some decent ideas like having social spaces to meet other people and chat. Dating apps will take off with that. The thing is that those should be simply apps and not focus your whole platform around it.

[@ucevrim]

Does eye tracking still work if you have lazy eye?

[@joshuaomatsuli]

I think the market capitalisation of vision Pro is going to be more than the whole if meta. Just saying, because alot of people is going to buy this stuff despite how expensive it seems.

[@jeremyf9124]

It’s not just the price that’s a problem. Very few people buy tech for its own sake, they buy what tech can do for them. Meta offers hundreds of games, virtual socializing. Apple offers a computer on your face. Eventually 3rd parties could make good use of it, but that will take a while. iPhones, AirPods, Watches have prestige factor, because people leave their house with it. I don’t see that happening with Vision Pro.

[@Clasam09]

Apple's stock reacted poorly when it was announced.

[@rnegoro1]

Price isn't friendly.

[@michaelchen2718]

13:45 great point

[@RAHIEM69D]

It's still a VR headset...meaning virtual reality. Does matter how quickly you can turn a dial, use your hand gestures and/or simply take the headset off. It's a cool device, and Apple already has their media cohorts trying to help with sales, but $3,500 is pushing it

[@Dk-qf8dd]

I don’t see the products competing, especially at that price point. Add to that, this looks like a very niche market. Personally, it is something I’ll skip.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

I do agree the FaceTime avatar thing does look like a George Lucas moment where they are pushing the technology too far and it’s not good enough yet. Everything else basically looks incredible. You can tell they really took the time to give the Apple smooth feel to vr and ar. Will be amazing when it’s $1500 or less someday and smaller. But I would probably be fine with the current size as a fun couch product if it was cheaper.

[@Euforikk]

This thing is less than 2 hours sustainable. It's going to be nice when it will cost near a 1000 with at least 5 hours of battery life. Otherwise is WORTHLESS, like it is now.

[@Isaac-tf9ri]

New battery tech will come out probably in the next 5 years that will be more efficient

[@Ray-dl5mp]

@@Euforikk well you can plug it in as long as you have a long enough cable or sit on the couch or something. But I agree, this isn’t even a good walk around the house product yet. 2 hours is way too limiting. It’s basically a sit down product for now which is still great based on what they showed.

[@well7885]

Price, Battery and Size Apple needs to solve these 3 issues with the next generations

[@void8274]

@@well7885 The early edition of Mac was $7,000 in today’s cash. It was selling for $3,995 at the time. Apple could leave it the same and it’ll still do great believe it or not.

[@tejeshwarbharara2505]

Actually the opposite.. they just legitimise Meta Quest as mainstream product

[@BunderChowed]

Should this tech be put to better use? People who are not as physically able perhaps. People with MND like Stephen Hawking would have benefited from this headset.

[@deltadom33]

That would have been a good demo but they didn't show any good 3d demos

[@africasupreme3]

Yes

[@Jrakula10]

i love to see the vision pro hit the market for competition reasons. unfortunately the price is insane. but soon^tm that might come down

[@kevinba7981]

The product is not for you

[@LaskaiTamas23]

​​@@kevinba7981 Yeah. It is for people who want to shuffle around their widgets 😂😂 or parents who always wanted to wear a helmet to make 3d videos of their children that they can watch back later alone 😂😂😂

[@cris123cris123]

1st Generation product, anyone who buys it is a beta tester. Same thing with the 1st generation foldable phones and so forth. In my opinion this isn't meant for the general public, we just have to wait for the 3rd generation or so for the price to come down to somewhere reasonable and for the technology to become easier to produce.

[@LaskaiTamas23]

@@cris123cris123 Wait for what? The whole concept is destined to fail. Even if it is just 1200 or 1400 USD, does not matter. The general market wont accept it. Why would anyone buy a bulky and heavy helmet to just consume media (alone)? We have more comfortable, significantly cheaper and less cringy products to do the same. It has to be successful in order to get recognition by the developers but it wont due its high price. To be cheaper Apple has to downgrade it so it wont be as cutting edge anymore. It is just an overoriced gimmick of a product. Nothing more.

[@white.lodge.dale.cooper]

How is the price insane? It's expensive, but there is literally no other consumer product existing today, on earth, that is as complex and advanced as the Vision Pro. It's a freaking marvel. Honestly, I'm surprised it twice as much. I'll bet you anything that Apple is taking a bath on this 1st gen product. Just like the OG HomePod, I'll bet the profit margin is tiny, as far as Apple's margins go.

[@joesmith6972]

Marques spittin' facts at 04:06.

[@theoneonly5368]

I love seeing people’s 5 stages of grief with what Apple did. It’s so good that the internet is literally trying to ignore it. Early next year they’ll realize those efforts were futile.

[@imthestein]

I think it’s also important to remember that there are productivity use cases for vr involving modeling

[@thelastcobraa]

Idk man I think apple helps out meta actually two different audiences there targeting and the quest 3 will have some of the same ar features just different ui and not 4k for ppl new to this tech I think they would go with the cheaper option for now …

[@Aggie4life77]

I would say that they are focused on two different markets. AVP will live in both! They just didn’t want to lead with games because you see where that got other devices.

[@Greengart]

"If you subscribe in XR, you subscribe in real life." LOLOLOLOL

[@Powney888]

The meta quest 3 scheduled to come out fall is also going to have mixed reality capabilities at a fraction of the price of apple’s headset. Great that both companies are pushing VR and XR to a new level but I know what I’ll be getting personally.

[@gherreraj]

Fraction of the price is kinda deceptive. Yes it’s way cheaper, but it’s also has way less technology. It requires controllers and has very limited hand gesture controls. The vision pro definitely has way more tech built in it. They are also 2 different products and can’t really be compared to each other at all.

[@Mangolite]

Unlike the Quest Pro, Quest 3 will lack the ability for face and eye tracking according to known device details.

[@superiortoall22]

I can replace a laptop with a Vision Pro, can’t say the same with the Meta Quest. The Meta is a good Entertainment headset but not much else, I’m not using it to do work so for $1000 it’s a better option

[@Christian-ry3ol]

@@gherreraj it does 95% ofwhat the vision does, in addition to the library of games available on Meta platform. For 7x the price, the vision pro is a dumb ass purchase

[@antonyvincent8482]

@@gherreraj vision pro hasnt even released all they shown us are many renders of advertisement. But see how people just made vision pro far more superior. All hail Apple Marketing😅

[@innnews6299]

No. Completely different market, focus, and price point. Quest 3 will be US$500, game focus, and to be purchased and used by young people mainly. Apple Vision Pro at $3,500 will mainly be purchased by semi-wealthy people.

[@artheart5652]

Asked this same question when I saw the announcement. Especially when they kept saying, "the era of spacial computing is here" like Meta has been joking all this while?

[@well7885]

Meta is failing miserably to make headset mainstream. Losing $4 Billion per quarter in the attempt. Also, they don’t see Quest as a computer, just as an accessory or a gaming console

[@artheart5652]

@@well7885 Exactly!

[@JensenBrock1]

“Spatial Computing” was a term I remember Magic Leap using years ago. However they didn’t have the ecosystem to survive.

[@Robin-ie3ns]

Yeah I had the first Magic Leap and the hand tracking was incredible, but as you say the software available was minimal and not that polished / clunky. I'm excited about the AVP due to this. If Apple have the same level of hand tracking (presumably they do) coupled with eye tracking and Apple's ecosystem it will be incredible.

[@ca3rice]

TLDR.... Answer is not. Diff products at grossly different price points for different targeted consumers. Wish people would stop comparing everything to Apple. Would love to see what Mete would come up with if they produced a $3500 device vs a $500 one.

[@andrewmukelabai8209]

LOL! Okay! You guys are creative! I love your outdo where you flipped your headphone 'headbands' over your eyes! 😂

[@joshuaomatsuli]

Meta quest CEO is going to be jealous😅. This is what Mark has been putting all his life into and apple just smashed it like it's nothing.

[@thecoffeemaker7444]

Finally an African who's not an 'Apple hater' ✨😂❤

[@joshuaomatsuli]

@@thecoffeemaker7444 True, am a big apple fan 👍

[@brianv2871]

Nah, this helped I think. There's a lot of people who had no interest in AR/VR headsets and apple is good at making people want things that previously people didn't want... and at the end of the day, people will want the Vision Pro, but they will buy the Quest as the affordable alternative.

[@joshuaomatsuli]

​@@brianv2871 true to some extent

[@rewdotkim]

The hardware and software experience seems solid. I have zero clue what the alternative would be, but I'm mostly disappointed that the "cover-the-eyes/wear-a-set-of-goggles" form factor is the route Apple went. As we've seen with a lot of other products, their choice will likely further cement this form factor as the default one for products like this.

[@vgaportauthority9932]

The products that differ from the VR headset option just aren't good. The AR goggles like Hololens are still 5-10 years away from being good. And they're probably like AT LEAST 10 years away from looking cool.. They're often bigger than VR headsets due to all the crazy prisms and stuff that needs to be used for the transparent screen. AR with holo-screens are about where the VR headsets were in 2013... Just prototypes that no one really wants. There's a reason that whole sector died in 2019. Everyone realized it was a product for 2030, and 10 years of failed products being released is just not worth it.

[@C.Wilson]

I feel like most people pretend Microsoft Hololens never happened. Seems exactly the same, but with an Apple logo.

[@Huran1]

Nah the pass through on the headset is so much better than anything out there the Microsoft one is terrible

[@Adamlukas]

true, but Microsoft basically axed the whole division..hope they come out with another though

[@chuck7415]

there are obv similarities but the experience is totally different. I liked the HoloLens but I would def take one of these over that.

[@C.Wilson]

@@Huran1 Hololens 2 released in 2019. The passthrough tech will not be as good, compared to a device being released in 2024. Tech has advanced.

[@brandonlong2064]

Microsoft also had smart phones. What happened to them? 💨 gone

[@tsancio]

To be honest, I (a middle-aged software developer) watch these videos to see what the young people think of these devices. My kids (M22 and F15) are also a good reference, but they haven't had access to the Vision Pro, for example. If the future thinks it's appealing, then might as well download the SDK and see what we can come up with.

[@510marlon]

Classic. Never finds any problems with Apple

[@vlcheish]

As a owner of Quest Pro I can say thank god Apple has entered this space. I cannot tell you folks how AWFUL meta is with software. I mean Meta will brick your devices from simple security code prompts with bugs that do not work and they won't fix it even going out a year. It's basically factory reset or pound sand. I am not even being hyperbolic, it's even more frustrating than my post lets on. Meta has a history of terrible support and they make their devices basically useless until they authorize you to you them even after you already purchased them. Further I recently encountered a year old bug where Meta will randomly ask you to authorize the device after a couple months of already using it and the authorizing code they send does not work on your device. Here's the catch....Meta bricks the device until you get the codes so even local files you have save won't work. There are many threads on this dating back to last summer. Basically you have to factory reset your device.

[@BAAAAAAAAAAA]

People act like Apple invented something new here and go "I could use this for working" blah blah blah. You can already use VR for working and for a much lower price tag. There is a reason you dont do it, its not comfortable and this new VR-Headset wont change that. Its either a technological dead end or a product that needs many more years to develop into a mainstream device. And this is coming from an og oculus user who is rooting for VR

[@sonalfernando7042]

when that virtual eyes gets customisation options everyone gonna love that feature

[@Hickeroar]

This video title... "Did Lamborghini just kill Honda with the Gallardo?"

[@conurm]

the best part about the vision pro is not the device itself (because lets be honest, not many people will be able to afford it) but it's about the bar that it raises. having competition from one of the biggest companies in the world and the standard they set when they enter the field, means we're gonna get a lot of innovation from other companies as well. im more excited to see where VR and VR gaming outside of the apple ecosystem goes from here with other headsets, now that the bar has been raised so high. it reminds me of how much came from the first iphone and the industry innovation that followed.

[@webreakforsquirrel4201]

Thanks for not making the dumbest thumbnail everyone else did.

[@localfarang]

As someone that has worn glasses for practically my whole life, I am so excited for the fact that I could turn a dial in my glasses in the future to blend the virtual world seamlessly.

[@phillustrator]

Everyone who never used a VR headset thinks VR is the future

[@misterhorse8327]

Didn't kill Meta. It validated them.

[@MimiMeme0]

Apple Vision Pro? Shut up and take my schmeckles!

[@xclamationmediajamaica1507]

Seeing the eyes is the coolest part of the headset because it allows you to interact with persons in the room. It adds to engagement rather than the person seeing a blank screen

[@DailyRants89]

I'm not about to talk to someone with a headset on even if I can see a rendering of their eyes.

[@Raja995mh33]

Apple literally announced this thing as an AR product... And that is what it is. Of course they never use VR because that's just not what this is.

[@lt6532]

They didn't announce it as AR. Neither as VR. It's clearly both but instead they used the (somewhat silly) term "spatial computing"

[@devfishe]

Eye tracking has actually been used in cameras for a very long time. They focus on whatever area you are looking at through the viewfinder. I think it was even a feature in some later film cameras

[@ChinamanMike]

Which cameras??

[@HiyuMarten]

@@ChinamanMikethe Canon EOS Elan!

[@Harderanger]

Nice discussion, but such a disappointing title. Didn’t discuss whether this benefits or damages Meta at all 🤦‍♂️

[@BenjaminRodriguezReyes]

You know a thought I just had? If this tech ever becomes truly mainstream, in the future advertisers will track whether you looked at their ads and exactly for how long you looked...

[@iantingen]

Apple designs for the end user, generally. It’s more of a Google / Meta move to design for advertisers. You won’t see ads integrated in Apple products, thankfully!

[@felixamankwah758]

that outro though.... HILARIOUS!

[@EliotHochberg]

Personally, I would very much love if the eye tracking that is being described in the vision, Pro was available for desktop. I can’t tell you how many times I am looking at a window and forget that it’s not selected on my wide screens, and I end up, clicking or typing in the wrong spot. Adapting it might be a little tricky for Desktop environment, but being able to change window focus with eye tracking would be a serious upgrade for a standard Desktop experience.