Did Fans Already Find the Land of Shadow? - Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree Candle Tree Lore Theory

[@Soulsavant1]

I think the dogs in elden ring are actually tortoises, they have been tricking us with concealing veils all this time...

[@death3678]

Naw dude Idk what you’re smoking but I want some

[@timsohn7057]

Likely dog

[@Myron90]

Try law of regression

[@mjberends8510]

My crazy thought is that it is literally under the erdtree in the map. There is a space indicated on the map that doesn’t actually appear in game, which would be consistent with the map showing lands that used to exist but have since been hidden away by Marika.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I don't think that's crazy! Seems pretty sensible, actually. Although I do think that the weird convergence point of the towers that I mention will end up being...something. Even if I'm wrong about what it is.

[@PickledTyrant]

I know a hole at mohgs that take you straight through , just blue hollow stuff but a KZbinr made a figure out as a Hoarah Loux standing still that’s really it

[@lucidhooper]

How does that translate geo-spatially? Is it a natural place, fully contained in the Lands Between , or rather located in a pseudo-parallel reality but merely converging or overlapping in a shared dimensional plane with TLB

[@ZayftheScholar]

I would assume the latter, mostly because you made it sound so cool!

[@joachim132]

I like this idea, and I was playing with the thought myself. The one thing that does not align with that, to me, is that in the DLC trailer there are both visuals from above ground and inside caves. So I'm not sure how that would all fit together. Maybe they place it there, but its sort of its own pocket dimension and not really... Under ground? Another thing that would point in this direction is that among mythological depictions of world trees, the Yggdrasil also has some roots beneath the earth that lead to places like Niflheim - the world of mist. Would not be surprised if Miyasaki would be inspired by something like this : ) The spot in the middle of the map is also intriguing. Very suspicious with the towers. But its also a rather small spot... I would expect the land of shadow would be larger than that.

[@DarkTranqz]

Miyazaki confirmed that the Lands of Shadow are roughly the size of, if not slightly bigger, than Limgrave. Something roughly the size of Limgrave could certainly fit right in the center of the map under that strange cloud. That cloud would also make sense as well, that something is being concealed inside of that area.

[@aquadracos7836]

I posted this theory on Reddit but got downvoted and called crazy lol, but it makes so much sense. Even the colosseums are along the coast, and the whole point of the colosseums were supposed to be for ritual combat of a warrior defeating a SNAKE. Plus the colosseums were originally gonna be a part of this dlc, I'm honestly surprised nobody else has pointed this out about the colosseums

[@nurgle-j5n]

@@aquadracos7836 don't listen to reddit, ever

[@Buzz_Killington]

The divine towers have always puzzled me. At first I thought they were connected to Farum Azula before it went skyborne, but I do really like the idea that they are connected the realm of shadows. When travelling up them you can see these black streaks of shadows, similar to the missing part of Radagons body and was not sure if there was any significance of it before the dlc, but now it seems that they are like an axis of Marikas power concealing the realm of shadows.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I think everything you bring up is possibly valid as well! Honestly, the towers do have a very gravitational magic vibe going on, so the Farum Azula thing makes a lot of sense as well.

[@timkom2289]

My idea is, that these towers are ancient. Most likely predates Marika and Greater will - maybe predates even dragons from farum Azula. But maybe Marika find a way how to repurpose them. Also I was wondering, why is there two finger sitting on top of each tower. Maybe among other dutioes they were overseeing critical mission of conceling the shadow land.

[@dannysandhu9487]

Plottwist: The Land of Shadow is what we have atm, the lands between will come in the dlc.. the shadow / veil / illusion is the golden tree and its golden shine... when we loose grace we will see the lands between and meet messmers flame

[@ZayftheScholar]

Man that is like some M. Knight Shamylan stuff haha! A fun idea though!

[@coatguy2990]

Plot twist, you were completely off

[@FirstLast-yc9lq]

It's also interesting in some of the early Elden Ring trailers, during one of the large scale battles against the capital, the sky is very reminiscent to the shadow lands. A much more golden tint to it.

[@ZayftheScholar]

That's super interesting! I' have been meaning to go back and look at some of those early trailers so I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks for the comment!

[@MexicanTeTe]

The original rumor about the DLC was that it takes place underwater. Maybe "underwater" was a mistranslation for in the sea at center of the map.

[@DoDozDorian]

Behind Marika's statues there's that 8 shape that no one seems to know what it is. What if they are veil sheet? What if since the beginning IT IS a representation of magic veil in front of our eyes ?

[@illuminatihuman6983]

Don't know if it means anything, but based on the map that someone was able to place the Shadow lands in middle of The Lands Between, the fog is specifically covering the area the abyssal woods are in

[@benjaminotalora363]

I think the shadow lands were both concealed but also physically removed from the lands between somewhat. At least to me that would be the best explanation as to why Liurnia is partially flooded. maybe there was a sort of natural dam that was broken when the shadow lands were locked away. It would go to explain why the Carians were against the Golden Order during the first war since there really didn't seem to be much interaction between the two factions in the past.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I really like that interpretation, Benjamin! Thank you for sharing. I have always been intrigued by the flooded portions of Liurnia.

[@nemesisundead83]

Go to Mogh's Palace right behind Miquella, the drop off, look straight ahead and a little to the right, that sparkle over there i believe that could be the power of the Veil underground, if you put a marker on the map right in the center of the cloud the arrow points right there

[@nemesisundead83]

I've personally went down all over the underground and that's the only area that throws up a red flag for me what's up with the coloring in that area

[@ZayftheScholar]

I am going to have to go have a look! @@nemesisundead83

[@nemesisundead83]

@@ZayftheScholar me just do more looking around the starry area means nothing ugh I went to where the ancestral spirit is and the starry area is towards Mogh's area opposite of where the cloud on the is ugh shattered dreams lol back to seeing if the Coil shield is some how related to Messmer, it literally has a snake attack, literally

[@Joandersonso]

As much as this information is interesting, the position of that sparkle vary depending from your point of view. From Siofra's bank, this mysterious light is scattered behind moghwyn, as if it's outside of the lands between. So weird The information may not be wrong and perhaps you're meant to notice that only at moghwyn tho.

[@ElevatedBanana]

I think that the necromancer hid the shield, since it represents something forbidden that he believes in. It's a symbol against the Erdtree and he is probably into that considering how he was treated. I also think that the Blacknight Assassin was sent there to find him and kill him to prevent him from doing whatever the NPC in the shadow of the erdtree trailer was doing.

[@beansnrice321]

Hot take. Marika is a deathbed companion and her bedchamber is her Baldachin temple. ;)

[@ZayftheScholar]

haha Perhaps! The giant shadow veil over the land of shadow does indeed look like a giant baldachin canopy...

[@blacksunserpent]

​@@ZayftheScholar that could explain why death was taken out from Elden Ring

[@positivecontacts]

Bro, that’s just what I thought. Fia’s slide in the games intro, her hair looks just like Marika/Miquella and Fia’s quest line relating to Godwyn just seems to symbolic to not be a reference to Marika, like Fia is attempting to finish what Marika started and hoped to achieve, sacrificing Godwyn but with the plan to return him, instead his mind was made stillborn when Ranni split the rune, killing his fate and immortal soul.

[@NickCombs]

Perfumer Tricia is thought to be the origin of deathbed companions. Perfumers hailing from the capitol designed to defend the erdtree indicates to me that Marika arrived before Tricia. However, there's a lot of overlap between the original role of perfumers and bestowers of blessed dew, the latter of which Marika was a member.

[@ZayftheScholar]

@nickcombs you are a trove of information my friend! I appreciate you dropping so much knowledge in the comments!

[@intalek305]

You wanna really crack the DLC? How about I tell you that Malaketh is actually the Shadow of the Erdtree being referred to. Look, I think what is messing everybody up is the assumption that the Gloam Eyed Queen and Marika were not one in the same person. Think about it, how can the GEQ go against Marika wielding Destined Death if it could simply be sealed by Marika? Willing to bet Maleketh was known as "Death of the Demigods" because he was Marika's right hand during the Godhunt, and when Malaketh defeated the GEQ and her Godskins he actually defeated Marika for transgression against the Greater Will because she burned the Erdtree, and that is why Malaketh has the stone right eye that is a gloam eye, because it is Marika's eye, because he took it from her as GEQ. His job as shadowbound beast to Marika is to turn on Marika should she piss off the Two Fingers. I think as GEQ she actually burned the first tree. She committed the first cardinal sin. That got not only her power sealed but a watchdog, Radagon, who could monitor her actions, become the perfect empyrean making counterpart, and serve as a perfect punishment to Marika by becoming all of he opposites in hopes of making a perfect Rebis capable of making a perfect being. Radagon, as a person, always sought perfection, not the Golden Order. I think the Elden Beast was trying to perfect itself and that is why this particular punishment was given, to make Marika the vessel. I think this is why Ranni is so willing to go to any length to shed her empyrean flesh, because of what happened to Marika. I think ever since Marika became Radagon, Radagon has slowly been taking over her over time, and that's why Radagon seems to become more active as Marika becomes less active thru the timeline of the game, and I think this seeking of perfection by the Elden Ring, thru Radagon, is actually what starts the transition to Golden Order Fundamentalism the more Radagon takes hold. I think Marika was punished twice, first as GEQ for burning the Erdtree via Malaketh and Radagon, 2nd by imprisonment in the Erdtree for shattering the Elden Ring, and this is why she mocks Radagon, saying "thou have yet to become me, thou have yet to become a god." Because at the end of the day she is the vessel not him, which is why she wins out and shatters the Elden Ring. In fact it may be the reason she is upset about Godwyn and that's the reason for it, it may be because Godwyn seems to be her only non-Omen child she didn't have with Radagon. If so, that may make him able to be the one Empyrean she could have truly outside of Two Fingers influence. If she was the GEQ, plotting against the two fingers the whole time, this would make more sense than any other reason I have heard. But why have children with Radagon tho? It may be as a Nox, she thought Radagon could become the perfect substitute for a Silver Tear Albinuric in the making of a true Lord of Night, but after having Miquella Malenia, and Melina, maybe she realized the Two Fingers would control/influence her children as well, and gave the only one who didn't have a body for the Two Fingers to control, Melina, a very special mission only she could do. Return Destined Death to the world, either by burning, or by becoming. Malaketh is the shadowbound beast who turned on Marika as Gloam Eyed Queen . defeated her and the Godskins, and sealed Destined Death on behest of the Two Fingers for burning the Erdtree. Hence, the Shadow of the Erdtree. Keep in mind, it says MALAKETH sealed Destined Death, NOT Marika..

[@TheSentientmeat]

Scholar: ATLAS plateau... Me: ...but Altus though 2:20

[@stupidinajar5701]

Do you think it’s possible that after completing the dlc, the land of shadows would become a part of the overall map? Didn’t Miyazaki mention that there would be notice changes post dlc in the main game? So maybe by completing the dlc, our tarnished is also taking part in lifting the veil that covered the land of shadows, rejoining this lost “continent” to the main map?

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thanks for the comment @stupidinajar5701! I would say at this stage anything is possible! That's why it's such a fun time for speculation. I like your idea a lot.

[@Lilregpack]

I’m going to assume that upon purchase of the DLC an event will happen in game much like the meteor after killing radagon. This will reveal the land of shadow wherever it may be

[@hhowdy]

The amount of work and editing put into this video was amazing for such a small channel, great work bro

[@ZayftheScholar]

I really appreciate the kind words @hhowdy!

[@lylepapps541]

In the trailer you can see that the veil over the shadow land loses visibility when the moon comes into view. It looks like the light of the erdtree may be the reason why it can’t be seen. Like a light source is enough to make the veil function.

[@ZayftheScholar]

What a great observation, thanks @lylepapps541! I mean... I suppose it makes sense if we think about how shadows are cast!

[@ShadmehR_23]

I think you're right as Miyazaki said.. obscured by the erd tree! this guys at from software usually twist things up.. That make you think everything has double meaning.. even when they are saying that literally😂

[@blacksunserpent]

Theory is cool and all, but there's sliiight problem with it. We literally have candle trees ingame as means to guide us to caves.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thanks for the comment @blacksunserpent! It's a good point. I don't necessarily know that it's a problem though, since the candle tree symbols seem visually distinct from the ghostly trees in game. However, even if they are the same, the description of the candle tree shield and its description of blasphemous cardinal sin still remains. Perhaps some blasphemous group for whatever reason chose those ghost trees as their symbol? The possibility that this is all tinfoil hat conspiracy is of course always there though haha! Still fun to speculate!

[@NickCombs]

The ghostflame of the guiding candletrees predates the erdtree, so this reference to cardinal sin does indeed make it distinct from those older versions. Clearly the type of flame is important, so we might re looking at flame of ruin rather than ghostflame on this shield. Kind of odd that its colors are more grey-blue, but it does speak of being a serruptitious depiction.

[@NickCombs]

I'm going to recant my previous comment because I see now that the candle trees don't use ghost flame. It looks like a normal yellow flame both in Elphael and in the spirit versions that guide us to various caves. The lit candles are still taboo to the Order, but that not have anything to do with the flame of ruin. I do wonder what Miquella's motive is to guide people to the caves. It's sort of like his version of guiding grace in the LB. Maybe we will see them in the Shadow Lands as well.

[@billj.8690]

6:20 😅 that caught me off guard in the serious tone of this video.

[@ZayftheScholar]

haha! honestly, I considered not including it because the tonal clash but I'm immature and it made me laugh so I left it in. You're somehow the only one who commented on it!

[@MrJohnMarbles]

Bravo dude. Awesome production, insight, and reference to community theory. Good sound too between your voice, music, and game dialogue. I'm still hung up on Marika sealing destined death and that having maybe larger implications than we've noticed. I have little to no basis for this, but symbolically, the shadow of the erdtree makes sense to me as some sort of ramification for the golden order.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you so much @MrJohnMarbles! This community is awesome so if I can curate and spotlight some of the ideas that I find compelling then I am happy. I totally agree with your last point; it makes sense that the sudden appearance of this massive light (the golden order and Erdtree) would leave areas cast in shadow (both metaphorically and physically!).

[@commander_cody841]

The one thing I notice about the tree in the trailer is it looks like it’s been infected with death blight, it’s all black with faint hews of yellow almost like all death blight attacks and effects

[@danemp4727]

i always assumed the black knife in the sages cave was just hiding away like all the others, it just seemed the most logical given what happened on the night of the black knives. so cool seeing the dlc bring new theories and roads to speculations on things that have been laid out in front of use since the beginning.

[@ZayftheScholar]

tbf it's purely speculation but I'm excited at the idea of it being true!

[@games-wz7sz]

I may be crazy but there are mausoleum knights that all stare at this empty spot of the map past the shaded castle. And i wonder if it is connected to the dlc. Shade is a synonymous with shadow

[@SubiKinubi]

You could argue that the area poisoned around the shaded castle is very similar to the tarnished riding torrent in what looks like a poison swamp in the trailer

[@games-wz7sz]

@@SubiKinubi there are also some Lillys pointing there as well

[@SubiKinubi]

@@games-wz7sz it does seem like something could easily be behind there

[@adamkorzon2972]

When you look across the water from Celid it looks like it is so close but it is not.Does not appear to be far enough away when looking at the map.It is very decieving.I took notice the other day after going into north celid after taking out the minor erdtree there.

[@pkre707]

When I originally found Sage’s Cave, I had the feeling that the Assassin and the Heretic were playing an eternal game of cat and mouse down there which ended up in a stalemate. I think this makes sense given the shield was hidden by magic by the Heretic and the Heretic was barricaded in a room with his snails and a fire.

[@lloydfrazier3682]

It's probably because we're so high up... but everytime you go to a divine tower... the sky IS very thick looking🤔🤔🤔... and they have those glowy stones up top too

[@NickCombs]

Meteorites

[@prajwalpawar3103]

I don't have access to the game rn but if The Queen's bedchamber is hexagonal in shape then its a perfect match with the divine tower theory. The veils over Marika's bed is similar to that shown in the trailer and in this video with the divine towers representing each vertex

[@concernedcitizen9023]

The veils in the Shadow's trailer to be a method of conceiling the Land of Shadows and be an instrument similar to the assasins veils is the most elegant explanation i heard thus far.

[@ZayftheScholar]

As I mention in the video, I do not take credit for thinking of it, but I agree!

[@alansquared]

I’m not negating this theory because it makes a lot of sense, but also, because I never see anyone else point this out: there is actual land you can see beyond the Haligtree. From the very first site of Grace after you arrive turn and look north-west and there’s a patch of land there not indicated on the map. To extrapolate further, we are to enter the DLC through Miquella’s withered arm poking out of his cocoon. Had Mohg not stolen him away, his cocoon would likely have remained at the Haligtree. Just some further food for thought.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you for the comment, @Alanthe2! I actually am not familiar with the piece of land you are talking about. I will have to load up the game and have a look.

[@alansquared]

From memory, I’m fairly certain it’s North west looking from the Haligtree Canopy site of Grace. Could be nothing at all, but at least it’s a piece of land that’s visible.

[@alansquared]

Yeah, basically turn around from that site of grace and there’s a landmass North North West

[@JarHed69]

Really well put together! Great audio and visuals, easy sub! My cheeky take is the Shadow Lands are reflected above the Lands Between, upside-down like that once scene of Paris in Inception!

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you so much, @JaRhEd69! I appreciate you taking the time to watch and leave some kind words. An inception-esque inverted world would be a really cool visual! One of many great ideas I have read in the comments so far.

[@phoenix9531]

I'd like to add something here. The seven-branched candelabrum (6 on the sides and the one in the middle) is a symbol that could remind one of the seven-branched sword, an ancient blade kept in Japan. There's a similar seven-branched weapon in Elden Ring, the death ritual spear, and the seven branched sword was most heavily depicted b Fromsoft in Sekiro, where the divine dragon wields a carbon copy of it.

[@ZayftheScholar]

You're totally right! It does bear some visual similarity to the Shichishitoh! I don't know much about that sword tbh, but I do remember using the Kirin Thundersword a lot in Monster Hunter back in the day, which is also based on it!

[@-v0n-]

I'm pretty sure the divine tower have a big role in that. First, when you're in them, you'll start seeing darkness and light particles pouring from the top, similar to the color of the veil we see in the trailer for Shadow of the Erdtree. Also, it has been stated that Radhan need to be killed. He is holding the fate of the stars. And if you pay close attention in the Divine towers, you'll realize they are scattered with meteorites. There are inside it and at its top. Maybe that is also something he was influencing with his power, directly or not? Or maybe there's something important to do related to Nokron? Also, and that's some point that is interesting to note, the erdtree in the base game is ethereal, whereas the one in the land between is physical. And there's 2 trees in the lands of Shadow, probably because the first one got damage to the point of no return the first time it was burnt, and an other one needed to be grown or grafted. It was concealed, because the whole idea that the erdtree was burnt has been erased. Also, in the trailer, pay close attention to the erdtree: There's a path of land that seems to go to its bottom, as if we could get there, and there's a white spot at its bottom that looks like an entrance (at 0:48 on the official trailer). On the actual map of the game, there's a similar area that can be seen, made of water, with a clear demarcation from the rest of the water area. It's right in front of the erdtree. An other thing, also, is that unlike the Eternal city, that where sent undergroung, here it was hidden. And it's probably not only the upper side that has been hidden, but maybe also the undergrounds. The part we can explore are all going around the center of the area, just as if it was "avoided". Still in the trailer, the part we see with the candletree holding sort of priests, it truly feels like the underground. It has a similar look as the deeproot dephts, and we can see far away in the background something that looks like the roots of the erdtree, with the same golden / orange burning on it. But why, though, where they hidden instead of "sent underground" like the Eternal City? And if Marika is the one that has hidden the land between, was it to banish it, or protect it? I mean, Messmer doesn't feel to be hating on his mother. And she did break the Elden ring, leading to her being punished by the Elden beast. An other point, in the area in the trailer with blue shiny flowers and the red dancer-like character fighting the player, in the background, there are ruins of buildings that are rather odd. They really looks like the behind of a ship, and there's two of them to be seen. And on the map, there's shipwrecks drawn in the middle area. Leading to an other point, the fact that the center area is just physically impossible in its actual state: The whole water area is above the rest of the sea, with a little waterfall being on the right side of it. Where does this water come from? There's no river going there, even in the undergrounds, it's even the opposite, the waterfall are coming from the area in the underground. The little waterfall on the surface is also unnatural, it's a straight line. It looks like it was cut. That is a weird detail that doesn't make sense. And if it didn't mater, they had just no reason not to make it on the same level as the rest of the sea. It's just more work for no reason, for something barely visible and that doesn't fit.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Some great information in there; thank you for the detailed write up.

[@Malxer]

This theory is beyond plausible; it makes a lot of sense.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Glad you think so Malxer! thanks for taking the time to drop a comment!

[@uninhibition31]

Discovered your channel. I love Elden Ring lore and speculation videos. Keep up the good work. ❤

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you so much @uninhibition31, that means a lot to me!

[@jerbear1722]

The other hint is the large amount of ash in the Capital before you burn it.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I never noticed that!

[@sergey_728]

I think this theory is the truth. You can see another tree wrapping the erdtree on the underground map.

[@Araneus21]

the shield's emblem design also looks like it has a 5-fingered hand as the tree's roots. imagine that such a tree burns, a part of it is already on fire, including a 3/5 of it's hand-roots, and suddenly it is cut into 2 parts, a pristine 2/5th and the burned 3/5th. the mutilated, burned 3/5 root is then alleviated by another outer god, the one of frenzy, posessed and bound to it's will, thus explaining the 2fingers and 3fingers, which might have been a whole 5fingers hand in ages past, a design played upon by the ancient Carians with their own "hands"

[@DrkCarbalt]

There was a screen capture of some concept art of the DLC where you can see a new tree growing on the shadow land or at least it gives the impression of that, so maybe the candle tree could be a thing or a replacement for the halig tree maybe Miquella wants to use this new candle tree to create a new order.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I actually haven't seen any concept art floating around for the DLC. I'll have to dig around a bit. :)

[@plutosama233]

the divine tower veil theory is such a cool idea!! It's very convincing, would like to see if it's true! It would be so epic!

[@ZayftheScholar]

I'm hyped @plutosama233! Thanks for watching and leaving a comment

[@thecdymavrick2.060]

Another piece of evidence which could support this theory. In the chest right next to the one which contains the candle shield, is a single nascent butterfly, which is the butterfly meant to represent Miquella in the 3 butterfly theory. Since the land of shadow is heavily tied to Miquella, and the fact that FromSoft putting one single butterfly in an entire chest is obviously a message, it is probably a sign that miquella is related somehow

[@ZayftheScholar]

absolutely, @thedymavrick2.060! It was a point I thought about making but didn't want to go too far... another one that I will let you in on because it's even more tinfoil hat is that you also find the "raptors black feathers" in Sage's cave and this armor also appears in the trailer.

[@Bones_]

I subscribe heavily to the theory that the divine towers which are in a hexagon around the sea in the middle of the map have “sealed away” the land of shadows. The edge of that space lines up with the Erdtree being at one end. Also this new land was once connected to the lands between but since has been hidden away, so that implies there must be a place in the current lands that it once existed. It would be odd for it to overlap with existing landmass, or simply be away as some distant island when it clearly has an Erdtree as the focal point of the map, unless this tree corresponds to another god entirely.

[@ZayftheScholar]

We will have to wait and see Bones_ but I at least think it's a sensible idea!

[@Blockvard]

Would really like to get some light shed on the sages. Garris and Gowry are dressed the same. Does that mean they are the same type of heretic or do heretics of all kinds get dressed like that and shunned from the village?

[@ZayftheScholar]

That is an excellent point @blockvard, I hadn't noticed that Gowry also wears the Sage's robe. There is nothing to indicate that the item description refers solely to Garris, so I think it makes sense that all these heretical sages wear it and are ostracized.

[@NickCombs]

If you kill Gowry's representative, it is revealed to be a disciple of rot (one of those bug spearmen). He's only veiling them as a heretical sage to play a part in his plans, so we don't know his true form, or if he even has one.

[@Planetside223]

The doorway to the Erd Tree always looks like there was an older tree underneath and the gold part was just kind of slapped on. I always thought it was the original Great Tree but maybe the tree we see in the trailer is the Erd Tree with the veils off so to speak and the big golden overcoat was an illusion. Maybe the Erd Tree never existed and Marika just repurposed a half burnt hollowed out Great Tree 😬

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you for the comment planetside223! That does sound like a very Marika thing to do lol. So much smoke and mirrors with her.

[@numskul]

The gold luminescent erdtree in the main game IS growing out of a dead tree stump, so this is a fair point in that regard.

[@buckyhurdle4776]

Even weirder is that the stump of the Erdtree looks more like stone than wood, and it's made even more clear when you see the roots underground, which clearly ARE wood. So I wonder, why did they purposefully make the stump above ground look so visually distinct from the roots? The colors and textures are completely different. And there are those petrified, stone trees underground and in the consecrated snowfield. Something to think about

[@ProcGenNPCs]

I always figured that the original Erdtree burned down, and that the tree we see now is a tree of grace manifested from Marika's powers. Those without the blessing of grace cannot see the Erdtree. The Tarnished Archaeologist has a good series on this and the evolution of the Golden Order

[@PetitAmiral]

​@@ProcGenNPCs I think one the old women seers even asks us if we see the golden tree, so it seems to me not everyone can actually see it, much like grace itself

[@sk8legendz]

The shadow veil looks like the gold veil the erdtree has. Im thinking this is a "beyond the veil" scenario. Like the lands between are a land of light, and beyond the veil is a land outside the light, a land of shadows The golden veil of the Erdtree also gets an orangish glow that reminds me of the DLCs aesthetics. Huge crackpot theory but Miyazaki said its outside the lands between but to be intricately connected i think he meant on a physical vs spiritual level as opposed to it being like the land of reeds or echolaid where the briar guy hails from

[@mistermysteryman107]

It would be so amazing if they found a way for the DLC to already be active for everyone right now and the secrets to getting inside of it are already in the game that we haven’t unlocked yet. And on the release date for this DLC all they do is tell us how to unlock it since nobody has managed to yet. ..that would be just amazing and cool to me as well as a great troll by FS

[@andrewsmith5012]

This would be cool. It's also interesting that in an interview (Sorry I don't have the source) I remember the dev's being asked if "Everything" has been found in Elden Ring so far. The response was interesting because they hinted at the answer being no, but didn't want to out right say it. Maybe there are certain items that when used in the correct spot, will unveil something new.

[@arthurking3638]

Maybe we can bring things together, when we first find out the scale of the DLC map and then put the suppressing pillar in the centre of the six divine towers.

[@loblo5542]

Is that the reason we can't swim? Because of the veil is blocking us from passing?

[@CloundCvnt]

The divine tower point you made was a very good cook, I love it

[@ZayftheScholar]

thank you @cloudcvnt! Nice username btw lol

[@PeopleAreHell]

Personally, I don't see the resemblence of the shields design. Anyway, I think these oozing, black things dripping down the divine towers while elevating up the tower might indicate that something is dripping into the lands between from the shadowrealm.

[@boblionia]

Curious that you didn't mention it as the placement of items is exactly as important as the items themselves, but the shield is found in the same loot room as: Nascant butterfly (Miquela's butterflies) Black hood (description specifies concealing identity) Silver Pickeled Fowl Foot (bit lost here but no doubt someone has an idea) Strong implications that they are trying to connect the shield to Miquela but also specifically Miquela's alternate persona

[@logicalchaos5274]

I started to wonder if messmer was the first person merika used and betrayed? She needed the erdtree to burn so that she could take out the rune of death. In doing so she became unstoppable but had to hide the fact that she had it burned.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I like that!

[@ryanclark2743]

Marikas bed chamber is also decorated by multiple veils draped over top of its center.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Absolutely!

[@Green_Matrix]

It's hard to follow lore now because the whole original story that George r Martin wrote still hasn't been fully told. This is technically part of the full story so I'm wondering how much will be revealed when it comes to the main story line.. I'm also wondering if we will see godwyn in this dlc.. if he is not in the dlc then Imo he will more likely be the next main focus after miquella! Of course we won't know that anytime soon but it definitely opens the door to more speculation.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I absolutely would love to learn more about Godwyn. His past with the dragons would be absolutely epic to explore in more detail but I am also curious generally about the dynamic between Ranni, Godwyn and Miquella. Why did Ranni choose Godwyn, who seemed to be a pretty well liked dude, to die such a brutal death?

[@Green_Matrix]

@@ZayftheScholar exactly ranni is the biggest question mark out of all the emperians! Imo and again this is all speculation but I think ranni will be our endgame eventually! She is the only one we cannot fight and she can literally 1 shot you and it's game over! Everything about rannis questline tells you she is holding a huge secret and is probably the reason the lands between is in ruins! What you just said about ranni and godwyn is everything I've been thinking about. Think about this I they made eldenring into a trilogy then this dlc is the action pack movie with a big twist in the end. But all trilogies at least the good ones when it comes to the 3rd film it usually goes back to the beginning and ties up the loose ends moving everything forward! What I mean by this is Shadows of the Erdtree is meant to push the agenda without moving the story fully forward so if we don't see godwyn and he makes no appearance in this dlc than I truly believe the next expansion which won't be heard of until at least 2026 2027 will definitely have godwyn and ranni as the endgame it would only make sense to have to fight one or the other or maybe both but that imo would make the most sense on how to end eldenring which I hope doesn't happen lol 😂 but 🤷‍♂️!

[@ZayftheScholar]

I hope so! The good news is though even if we turn out to be totally wrong at least we had fun speculating about it 😂@@Green_Matrix

[@drewjohnson-85]

The problem with this is that the iconography on those towers tells a story about them being built by fire worshippers after a massive meteorite hit the the center of the Water way.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I'm actually unfamiliar with this theory but it sounds cool.

[@drewjohnson-85]

@@ZayftheScholar I heard it on a video from the Tarnished Archaeologist, while I don’t fully agree with their timeline the evidence that they provided on this subject is pretty good and goes something like this, under the 2 fingers at the top of each tower is a meteor and on each of the matriculations at the corners is what appears to be the symbol of smaller meteorites around a central large one and the architecture all looks like the presumably giant built stuff that is underneath everything in the lands between, and therefore is the oldest stuff.

[@montanamince4449]

We hear a lot of the land of reeds I wonder if this is something they will ever follow through with. I mean the lands have been feudal for a millienia according to ever source I've found in the game

[@ZayftheScholar]

I doubt we will actually get to visit, but I think we should definitely learn more through weapon descriptions since it's been confirmed that we will be getting new Katana's!

[@Letterface]

I think that the lands between is without shadow because it represents the time when day is at its brightest. It's noon, and on the other side, you have clear midnight. However, it's a false reality, and you can tell when you see the giant skeletons from the underworld stuck halfway in the water. The land of shadow would be sunrise/sunset/dusk/GLOAM because it would represent the time of day that's missing from the base game, in terms of representatives. I think Rosus and Fia might be representative of the Greek Cronus and Rhea, and that the story of Rosus, with the blade through his eye, might be an Oedipus Rex kind of thing. The land of shadow would be in the middle of the map, where we see water, because that would be the area caught between Nokstella/Nokron and the current Lands Between. So it would be like they pull the surface of the water up and it never was water in the first place

[@ZayftheScholar]

That's a really interesting point @Letterface! I hadn't really thought about it from a physics based perspective.

[@Letterface]

@@ZayftheScholar Yea similarly I think that among the colors, bloodflame (red from black) is infrared. Evergaols work as ultraviolet. If you align the characters with time of day, the GEQ= dusk, Rosus= daybreak, Rennala = Full moon, Ranni = new moon, and so on. Personally my hunch is that there is a family history that is being hidden from the world, and it's based on something awful, like doing the night of black knives body sacrifice while pregnant, leaving a loose soul without a maiden.

[@ZayftheScholar]

pretty dark... 😅

[@J.aime_le_pain181]

get one candelabrum, the skelly squad will bring the rest

[@ZayftheScholar]

I feel like this is referring to something but I don't know what.

[@J.aime_le_pain181]

@@ZayftheScholar SMT 3

[@MacDaddySnuggles]

They’re going to release the dlc and it’s going to be off to the left of the map or something odd like underground. Then we will all feel silly.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Sometimes it's the journey, not the destination @macdaddysnuggles! haha It's fun to speculate, even if it might be wrong in the end.

[@nomattr]

The robe Necromancer Garris wear is the same Gowry has.

[@AmayaHinageshi]

So I _love_ this theory... but if we work under the assumption that the "Land of Shadow" had a physical presence within the Land's Between, exactly how did Marika pull this off without people remembering it? That isn't to say that this isn't what happened. It just poses a number of different questions. When Nokron and Nokstella were buried beneath the earth, it's not as if the residents of the Lands Between forgot about them. Traces of the Nox and their culture continue to exist even centuries after their disappearance - when you live in a world without death, it's kind of hard to entirely erase that sort of history. You can certainly control the narrative, but I'd at least expect there to be some sort of atlantean mythos surrounding a vanished landmass. It's not as if people wouldn't _remember_ there being a giant portion of land that spontaneously disappeared, would they? There's also the question of how exactly Miquella exists in the Land of Shadow when his body is stuck in Mogh's palace. I keep thinking that perhaps, the Land of Shadow is more like a parallel world. Something sustained in tandem with, but exists separately to, the Lands Between. It's not like the manipulation of time or the use of liminal spaces are a foreign concept in the game. I'm just super excited to see where it goes, regardless of what they do, but man... so any questions.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Extremely fair points @AmayaHinageshi, and I would tend to agree. It is a bit weird that there are not more remnants of the Land of Shadow left behind, even fragmentary ones. As you say, it's entirely possible that it's more of a parallel world, but then again, I don't know if that would necessarily be at odds with the theory presented here. We know that the land of shadow was "where Marika first set foot", so it seems possible to me that it was at one point connected to the lands between before being isolated OR existed before the lands between which were later made by Marika/the greater will. Perhaps the creation of the Erdtree and its luminous golden light created a new world and left the old one cast in shadow (figuratively and literally)? Or maybe it's just totally disconnected haha! We'll know for sure soon but it's fun to speculate about in the meantime! Thank you kindly for taking the time to write such a detailed comment.

[@AmayaHinageshi]

@@ZayftheScholar No problem! I loved the analysis. It was all well put together and makes a lot of sense.

[@ZayftheScholar]

appreciate you!@@AmayaHinageshi

[@andrewsmith5012]

Speaking of concealing, I wonder why there are "Concealed" monsters. IE. The concealed rune bear in Limgrave.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Yes, there is so much hidden away! It really shows how much thought and care FromSoft put into this game that we can still be uncovering things years after release. @VaatiVidya has a fantastic video about the rune bears.

[@petercottantail7850]

i want to believe the dlc is being pinpointed to the cloud from divine towers. the only argument i can think of against it tho is that logically we would need to restore all great runes to the towers but the interview said only moag and radahn were required to access dlc, meaning we can skip rykard and melania, this not needing to complete all the towers. that doesn't mean i think there isnt another way to use the towers, maybe you don't have to do anything but they still are part of the concealing. this video made me think, with the interview saying the dlc is where marika "became a god" and the black knife assassins being associated with that shield, its not a far-fetched concept to think the main inhabitants of the dlc will be numan, the idea that the nox were given a fake night sky turns out that it isnt the whole story with the underground and the dlc being where they actually invoked the ire of the greater will. thats just speculation cause my memory is pretty rusty on lore from 2 years ago reading all that stuff.

[@nikoguns24]

very good, now investigate what happens with the ghost candelabras, I only managed to relate them to Miquella and Santa Trina as alter egos

[@ZayftheScholar]

I'm actually highly interested in that topic @nikoguns24! I'll have to see what I can dig up.

[@CypherOfSolace]

Wait until fall out boy shows up with sixteen candles.

[@ZayftheScholar]

am I more than you bargained for yet?

[@CypherOfSolace]

@ZayftheScholar in Marika's own words "I'm a leading man (radagon) and the lie I weave are oh so intricate"

[@CypherOfSolace]

@ZayftheScholar perhaps FOB inspired all of elden ring "Write me off, give up on me 'Cause darling what did you expect I'm just off, a lost cause A long shot, don't even take this bet" The tarnished of no renowned "Some legends are told Some turn to dust or to gold But you will remember me Remember me for centuries And just one mistake Is all it will take We'll go down in history Remember me for centuries (Hey yeah, oh hey, hey yeah) Remember me for centuries" The shattering "'Cause we could be immortals, immortals Just not for long, for long And live with me forever now, pull the blackout curtains down Just not for long, for long" Marikas plan to seal destined death and the shadowlands

[@ZayftheScholar]

😂 this theory is going down swingin'

[@breadwatcher3908]

Instantly subbed after 6:20 lmao

[@ZayftheScholar]

did you catch the easter egg in the subtitles too?😂 👀

[@elsfic]

Great editing!

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you so much @elsfic! More videos to come soon :)

[@phisx333]

with the towers you got me

[@Soulsavant1]

Have you guys noticed whe viewing the underground map there seems to name labels cut off as if the shadow lands area was just clipped out there?

[@judge831]

I think Messemer's Tower/throne will be at the center of all 6 towers.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

Miquella... wanna bet we'll go INTO the eclipse?

[@ZayftheScholar]

I'm having ptsd flashbacks to Casca

[@icelusthefish]

If you go to the top of the divine towers and look out across to the other divine towers, the entire area is full of fog. If you look down you dont see water, you only see fog. At ground level there is a foggy view of the opposite coast though, so 🤷‍♀️

[@ZayftheScholar]

It's all a bit confusing isn't it 😂 we'll have to wait and see!

[@StanHalen1936]

Probably the big giant cloud right in the center.

[@ZayftheScholar]

I have always been suspicious of that cloud...haha

[@jonkey1735]

"Atlas plateau"

[@ZayftheScholar]

Did I say it weird? 🙃

[@jeffreytorres2539]

​@@ZayftheScholar Yes it's ALL-TUS

[@ZayftheScholar]

@jeffreytorres2539 DUDE I HAVE BEEN READING IT WRONG FOR YEARS! Thank you

[@jonkey1735]

@@ZayftheScholar its okay most of the community also cant spell Malenia

[@ZayftheScholar]

I actually genuinely appreciate you pointing it out. My brain had been reading it as Atlus since launch.

[@BrawnyWolf]

One thing I noticed in the trailer is that the rib cage of the old man boss could be an upside down Candle Tree?

[@ZayftheScholar]

oooooh it does have a similar shape. More convincing to me though is that someone pointed out that the rib cage of the old man looks really similar to the skeleton of the Elden Beast.

[@OutshinedOutlaw]

If you stand at the top of Caelid tower and look to the center of the map you can see tree branches, it makes sense that the shatow of the Erdtree would take place there, its like a callback to the deep sea in ds3.

[@aSimpleTailor]

I love Souls games communities!!! So excited!!!

[@ZayftheScholar]

Let's go @asimpletailor!

[@Lilbird2fye]

Hey when you showed the mimic veil. It lowkey looks like the streams of light when the erdtree burned. Someone on Reddit compared those streams to the veil in the shadow lane. But I just noticed the mimic veil comes down over you just like the shadows veil or w.e does to the erdtree

[@ZayftheScholar]

Hi @Lilbird2fye! I honestly hadn't noticed that. Good catch!

[@user-fv7jd4xj5n]

I assume its a flipped world. Like a mirror on top or under the erdtree (probably under, since its shadow of the erdtree)

[@ZayftheScholar]

Could very well be! Another commenter said something similar and likened it to the upside down city scene in inception. I think visually that would be very neat.

[@verficktesch8795]

Who are the Formless Serpents? they are named in the description of the serpent bow. What is gurranq and the black blade kindred protecting? when you go down to get the cinqueda dagger there is a platform and from this platform you see a black sapling in the water. this platform could be the entry point to the shadow lands maybe they place a teleporter like they used to get to radahns fightarena.

[@ZayftheScholar]

All great questions @verficktesch8795! I'm actually unfamiliar with the black sapling you refer to. I will have to go check that out...

[@uplodr]

just a heads up, the candle is the same that the ghostly candle npcs trigger. Also the same candlestick thats in prayer room elphael.

[@Kodama666]

this is a cool theory but i am so sincerely confident that the divine towers, the crater in the middle of the map, and everything related to them predates marika by an EXTREME amount of time, and is likely from the oldest civilization on the entire continent, which i suspect is either the titans (super giants we find buried across the map) and/or the alabaster & onyx lords 1. because both these cultures religious iconography matches the divine tower iconography, of spheres encircling spheres 2. because both these cultures appear in the same strata as the divine towers & crater 3. because from a design standpoint and a historical standpoint craters represent deep time, and it is 100% a fact that it is a crater in the center of the map not only based on what you can see obviously in game but also because the original concept art maps drawn up by fromsoftware distinctly depict it as a crater, and an extremely old crater at that all that is to say that if we ever find the who/what/where/why of that crater & the divine towers, it wont be in the upcoming dlc i suspect, and id even wager we will never have a truly satisfying answer because it is meant to be unanswerable beyond the extent that i have already answered it

[@BumFluffer1999]

*time skip* Yeah brother, you’re wrong 🙂😂😂

[@bpooboi]

I thought that was the haligtree. Right?? The land on the otherside of the haligtree. That blocks the rays of the erdtree?? That should be one of the only "shadow areas" that is blocked by the erdtree..... right?

[@codeine69]

the tree choking the erdtree has to be related to the haligtree imo

[@codeine69]

Another theory i have is that this is the true erdtree we see, as the erdtree in the lands between is merely an object of faith. Some NPCs say things that suggest not everyone can see the tree at all. Also, As evidenced in the ashes of leyndell when we first arrive, the erdtree had already once been burnt. But it's not gone, as we see it in the Shadowlands, rather it's being forced to live on by the twisted tree so it just stays in a state of constant half-death even after we reclaim the death rune from maliketh.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Agreed! I just don't fully understand how yet...😅

[@angelobluec]

"Atlas plateau" its Altus. Made this mistake early on as well.

[@ZayftheScholar]

You're the 5th or so person to mention it, but thank you 😅! I honestly had been reading it wrong for years!

[@hanselthecaretaker]

They put it away for someone to find. Marika would’ve probably just destroyed it.

[@Michael-cb3uw]

Creepy and awesome how the roots resemble a hand. maybe the trees themselves are a representation of as above so below/ Duality or two "polar opposites" connecting to form a strong eternal being. What I mean is, Trees breath and expose their leaves and fruits above ground while their rough roots that grow deep into the earth and never bear fruitz the roots being parasite like onto the dead earth, two opposites intertwined forming a perfect strong unexpressionable giving godlike living tree being GodTree Ygdrasil or the giving tree in shel silversteins words lol Trees cannot exist without roots, and likewise alot of those exposed trunks and dead trees once tlourished and provided for the lands between, 😮fire

[@ahmetsarcicek7818]

those candles are also found in caria manor banners

[@davidsmith8006]

Amazing video man 🎉

[@MidniteMoogle]

It's pretty interesting

[@zackdoom]

The lands between, the land of shadow Maybe thats why its the lands between 😮

[@ZayftheScholar]

Curious to hear your thoughts on the theories! Too tinfoil hat?

[@thetrendisdead]

I like the idea of the dlc to be in the middle only that dont make sence is that of all the towers are connected to a veil the wouldnt it show show it of what the towers conceal is the demi God ruins and the Curse ruin then now it's connected to mogh bosses room egg 😅. And he said it was no party of lands between i think it might be like nameless king in ds3 where it's not connected just Crumbling Farum Azula and the trailer has a magical area so where ever it's placed tap the underground on map and see whats empty' to connected because i bet it's connected above and below 🤘🏻

[@ZayftheScholar]

Yeah I see what you mean. It could totally be a disconnected area. The veils over the sky in the trailer do make me wonder though!

[@thetrendisdead]

@@ZayftheScholar haha i wonder if it's in the sky :) shadow from above the erd tree lol 🤣 haha... But only other Thing thats kinda interesting is they want you to make the Stars fall so underground to :) i cant wait for it gonna be amazing

[@levampblaze6312]

Really good video

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you so much for the kind words and taking the time to watch @levampblaze6312!

[@johnminet9067]

Verry good conclusion ots does make sense

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you John! Appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment!

[@astrangeriremain]

Good video!

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thank you so much @astrangerimain! I appreciate you taking the time.

[@griffinwalters5340]

may already be common knowledge but were the lands between arranged by marika herself?

[@ZayftheScholar]

As far as we know, it seems like the lands between predate Marika, since there is explicit mention of a primordial period period before Marika's rule. In the beginning, the Greater Will (basically a god like entity) sent a golden star bearing a beast into the lands between that eventually became the Elden Ring.

[@DanDukeBox]

Hey dude, cool videos but I’m just curious…how do ya get the pronunciation of Altus wrong? You said Atlas, no biggy but y’know 😉🤷🏻

[@ZayftheScholar]

At least five people have pointed this out to me and my only excuse is I'm dumb and had been reading it wrong for literally years at this point! 🥲

[@ProfOrProf]

ALTUS!!! Please, everyone, stop saying Atlas Plateau. It’s Altus!!

[@ZayftheScholar]

Another commenter or three beat you to pointing that out, but I appreciate it! I seriously kind of had my mind blown when I learned my brain had been reading it wrong for years now ;-;

[@petercottantail7850]

tomatoe, atlas plateau. if you know what was meant then the language is correct

[@Ludacrisgaronio]

Nah there will be just a teleport to the new zone

[@ZayftheScholar]

party pooper. 😭

[@Ludacrisgaronio]

@@ZayftheScholar teleport is Fromsoftware favorite way to dlcs 😅

[@ZayftheScholar]

It is known...

[@ZayftheScholar]

So I just read an interview with Miyazaki and he confirms it's just a teleport. But he also does say that the fabric we see is a veil hiding the land of shadow, so the ideas are probably not mutually exclusive. We teleport behind the veil from Miquella's cocoon. Where veil is though, we have to wait and see...