Did God ‘sacrifice himself to himself for a weekend’? Glen Scrivener answers Matt Dillahunty

[@TheTruthKiwi]

I know this comment is going to get buried under all my fellow atheists comments here but props to a christian radio show for debating and posting a video with Matt D. And for not disabling the comments!!

[@azophi]

This is true lol

[@henryanombosehenry8148]

This atheist agrees

[@NormogGaming]

"God sacraficed himself to himself for a weekend..." As Matt Claimed ? Um Matt did not write the bible. The Bible makes that claim, Matt is pointing to the ridiculousness of the claim.

[@gladiator8325]

Normog Gaming there is nothing ridiculous about god becoming flesh in order to be the substitutionary sacrifice for the horrendous sin of mankind. The suffering Christ went through in order to reconcile us back to God no innocent man would ever pay for an enemy and for this idiot, and that is a charitable description, to attempt to reduce the price Christ paid to give him the opportunity to be saved is shocking and reprehensible.

[@daemonious83]

@@gladiator8325 I missed the part where he put on a skin tight red leotard and ran around real fast

[@gladiator8325]

Damon Miller What are you talking about

[@gladiator8325]

Greg McFarland all human beings will come back to life. there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the unrighteous, The righteous will go to heaven and the unrighteous will go to hell, so what’s your point.

[@gladiator8325]

Greg McFarland oh that’s a great attempt at making up stories as to why people believe in God. just say they were raised that way and were forced to believe or their parents were religious right? this is how you atheist looks so stupid and foolish. you make all kinds of assumptions that have no truth to them at all. I came into a personal and powerful relationship with God at the age of 19 in my apartment after I received the gospel of Jesus Christ from a man who knocked on my door. you think Christianity is about religion as do all atheists because you are brainwashed, when in reality Christianity is about having a relationship with God. and yes there are billions of others who are deemed righteous not because of our own righteousness but because the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to us because we received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and received the substitutionary sacrifice he made on our behalf. you really don’t know much about Christianity do you? doesn’t sound like you know anything about the gospel. how a Christian is justified, How a Christian is sanctified, how a Christian is saved, what it means to be born again, these are topics that you should probably have some amount of knowledge before you attempt to try to explain to anyone what Christianity is. I have a question for you, have you traveled the world and drank every soda out there to make sure they aren’t the real Coca-Cola? is it necessary for me to travel the world and learn about every soft drink available in order to determine if Coca-Cola is the real thing? your argument is foolish. christians don’t weigh out all religions and then one day decide to choose one as the ridiculous atheist think they do. that’s what an atheist would do. christians have actually came into a living personal relationship with God, and because of this there’s no reason to try to find out if the God they have a relationship is the real God we already know. and we know by many infallible proofs. we enjoy interaction with God in a very supernatural way, but that isn’t something the atheist can experience to any degree because they rejected the gospel and they’ve rejected Christ and they rejected the God of the Bible and they rejected truth. God is not going to reveal himself to anyone walking in arrogance and pride demanding that God prove the reality of his existence to them, that just isn’t how it works whether you want to work that way or not. atheists seem to think that God owes them something when he owes you nothing.

[@arcaithe8030]

So he does believe that god came down and sacrificed himself to himself for a weekend? I’m confused, how did he answer Matt’s question? It just seems like he confirmed it.

[@Sleeplessmaster]

He’s a master question dodger after learning the 4 Ds of dodgball, and learning to avoid wrenches launched at his head via a pro baseball pitcher.

[@VictorHarrys]

Of course it can be spun into a physical parody, but Christians also embrace a spiritual factor (simply explained by the dancer); love, not only flesh. Therefore, the dancer doesn’t believe it’s a barbecue.

[@veranicus6696]

This was brilliant. Matt : God sacrificed himself. Glen: 1:20 to 5:08 no,no , no , no ,no , noone believes that, no no no. Let me explain (5:09) his(god) death paid for the sin. How is this not mentally ill.

[@Sleeplessmaster]

Veranicus it’s called religious Ice Dodgeball

[@rhabdob3895]

But I do like barbecues, so...I guess I’m christian now?

[@alwayslearningtech]

Glen: who actually believes that Also Glen: we believe exactly what you just said but in more words.

[@jacksyoutubechannel4045]

Seeing this take from so many people, I'm convinced that Dillahunty fans in specific have become the atheist equivalent of young earth creationists. It's surprising how little he understands about Christianity, yet has passed on to his fans his complete certainty that he _does_ understand it, but it's all stupid.

[@alwayslearningtech]

@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 dude, I am not a Dillahunty fan. And you thinking he doesn't know Christianity is just you being ignorant of the tens of thousands of versions of Christianity that exist. He grew up in one of those versions and you grew up in another.

[@YY4Me133]

@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 It _is_ all stupid, and I realized that long before I ever heard of Matt Dillahunty.

[@jacksyoutubechannel4045]

@@alwayslearningtech Growing up in Christianity doesn't mean a person understands it. There are core tenets of Christianity that are outside of the denominational divide (and the numbers there are _greatly_ exaggerated). There are also philosophical arguments that he routinely dismisses without addressing. It's absolutely possible to grow up in Christianity -- even to become a preacher -- and have a very simplistic (even false) view of it. My reaction was harsher than I meant, because I do find it really frustrating (and unedifying) to listen to, and I'd run up on several videos in a row I'd hoped would present some new arguments and pushback for me to think about, but all were Dillahunty videos that had really similar comments sections as well. (Honestly, there is no other atheist I listen to that ends up with those kids of comments sections.) Still, I shouldn't have assumed it was a response based on being his fan. I hear something like Matt: Ridiculous misunderstanding of Christianity. Glen: We don't believe that. I don't know anyone who believes that. Matt: Fine. You tell me, then. Glen: The proper understanding of that part of Christianity, with subtle but critical distinctions. Matt: That sounds similar to me, so it's _exactly_ what I said! Glen: No, you missed some really important distinctions there. Matt: Suuuure. Maybe you just don't want to admit I understand, because then you'd have to admit it's stupid. Glen: No, that's not true. Matt: Well, that's what you _would_ say if you didn't want to admit that I understand. It's part of my general frustration; that's why I ended up responding to your comment. Sorry I didn't do it better.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@alwayslearningtech 🤣🤣🤣 you have to be ignorant or in total denial to think that Dillahunty understands the Bible or Christianity, he understands available just as much is your average fundamentalist, maybe he could name some things about the Bible that your average fundamentalist probably won’t know about but he can’t tell you anything about it all he can do is just name what it is, he is completely biblically illiterate. And tell me about these thousands of different versions of Christianity,There’s Christians that disagree on something theological issues, let me guess you’re going to the whole 45,000 denominations thing oh boy here we go again.

[@MichaelJohnson-composer]

Scrivener didn’t answer shit. His answers made no sense.

[@Sleeplessmaster]

Michael Johnson on the contrary! God sent his son through the father by the holy spirit, but none of them are God, but rather representation of Him, but not him because God wasn’t god on Earth, but Jesus the son of the father who isn’t God, but Mary was impregnated by God whose the Father, but isn’t God and thus cheated on her husband, but also didn’t because it was God who did it so it’s okay... This nonsense is giving me an aneurysm. 😂

[@consul6262]

@@SleeplessmasterSo glad you cleared that up for me 😂

[@DanUtley]

Sleeplessmaster Well you spewed several heresies that had to be crushed in like the first couple centuries. Your ignorance of what Christians actually believe is quite apparent to anybody who knows anything.

[@toforgetisagem8797]

@Happy Go Lucky I had one of those holy spirit's got me all sorts of bother. Oh no, maybe I mean unholy spirit. Either way, hard liquor gets me in bother.

[@t8060am]

@Happy Go Lucky Ghost sex?

[@donamills]

Now we present "The tap dancing evangelical" * Applause from the crowd*

[@jessebryant9233]

And the obfuscating atheists! Who simply cannot be rational or consistent within their own worldview! (Cue the mindless applause from other unthinking atheists!)

[@jackdaniels9179]

@@jessebryant9233 which part stumped you, bud? Maybe I can clear it up for ya?

[@jessebryant9233]

@@jackdaniels9179 You seem confused! Nothing stumped me... bud.

[@cnault3244]

@@jessebryant9233 The atheist worldview? Atheism is simply a non-belief that a god exists.. period. Calling it a worldview must mean that non-belief in leprechauns or pixie are worldviews.

[@LiquidTurbo]

@@cnault3244 So fundamental.

[@FormerHumanX]

The video title should be "Matt Dillahunty corners arrogant theist who doesn't have answers for his superstition."

[@igotstoknow2]

@Time to Reason Everyone who disagrees with nonbelievers and fake believers is unreasonable? It is reasonable to not agree with Eternity Trashers. It is 'Unbelievable' not 'Unbelievers'. No more pot rot for you.

[@wizardsuth]

I can imagine Scrivener doing basketball apologetics: "Why do players have to dribble the ball?" "Because you can't have the ball go up without it having gone down. When a player bounces the ball it's a symbol of the ball's fallen nature, and hence that of the player. The player is later redeemed by sending the ball upward and through the hoop." It makes about as much sense, and without the need to kill anyone or anything.

[@alexanderfreeman]

My only regret is that I have but one upvote to give this.

[@sidtom2741]

The sports allegory along with the Jesus story is rather faulty lol. The basketball dribbling and shooting is done multiple times over the course of a match. When a player scores, he doesn't change his techniques unless it's absolutely imperative like if he's losing. If there one is to use a basketball allusion here, it's that our ball is deflated and Jesus is the air pump to give us new... air. Not the most scintillating example I've ever used lol

[@daviddick1784]

@@sidtom2741 only regret, is how some will just try and find any way to not believe and to ignore the signs. I'll pray for them while they mock us.

[@paffles6696]

@@daviddick1784 The important thing is that you at the same time feel persecuted and superior. I think it was Jesus who said, "Blessed be the sanctimonious, for they shall inherit the earth.". Or was it something else? I can't remember.

[@daviddick1784]

@@paffles6696 how do you know how I truly feel if you are not me?

[@jonarudy]

The title should have been: Matt destroys tap dancing christian.

[@Montezuma0]

I don’t think Matt *destroyed* him. It was a conversation

[@wylolister3218]

@@Montezuma0 tap dancing

[@jessebryant9233]

Your original post should have been: I'm another delusional atheist. Don't mind me! 🤪

[@jonjacobjingleheimerschmid3798]

@@jessebryant9233 hmmm... Because we don't have illusions of an invisible something something That does majic we're delusional?

[@gladiator8325]

Kelven Schmidt The only people I see on here that are delusional are atheists. The amount of ignorance they bathe in is shocking. and their arrogance is nauseating.

[@douglaswilliams9487]

The mental gymnastics that Scrivener has to perform to justify his beliefs are both impressive and sad...

[@michaelnelson9328]

just sad

[@jessebryant9233]

What would be an example of what you're claiming?

[@hellfirdragon17]

@@jessebryant9233 God the brother and god the son...

[@jessebryant9233]

@richard nitsch For example?

[@jessebryant9233]

@@hellfirdragon17 Brother and son? What? I must have missed something...

[@JamesAlanMagician]

The way this was cut off at the end, I assume that if I watch the full interview that Matt immediately comes back explaining why the last argument from Glen is silly, and you edited this to make it sound like your friend won the argument.

[@tinytina884]

James Alan did you watch the full interview? Why would you assume there is dishonesty in the editing? Do you always assume dishonesty on the part of the Christian? If you watch the full interview you will find that your assumption is wrong, and now you have led others in believing wrongly.

[@haven4304]

@@tinytina884 the actual timestamp for the debate for the continuation of this starts at 53:52 on the full debate And yeah, James was misleading, because Matt doesn't explain why the last argument is silly. Justin himself immediately chimed into the discussion to change the topic of the discussion. Not entirely false, but not entirely true either

[@loodlebop]

The trouble is, whether it happened that way or not, these are never neutrally hosted as the host himself is Christian and often tries to help a theist talking themselves into a hole, or cut off an atheist when he's about to destroy a circular argument, not always though, and I don't think he's that bad, but I have seen him do it several times

[@chrisgagnon5768]

James Alan You troll. Don’t be so dishonest.

[@theyeticlutch3486]

Pretty much

[@jeffc5974]

So basically: "Yes, but I don't like saying it that way because that points out how absurd it is."

[@angelbrother1238]

Jeff what’s absurd is Matt dillahunty asserting that there is no evidence of a soul and afterlife and yet he won’t debate the evidence for a soul and the afterlife even from science itself . Matt is what we call an emotional atheist from the religion of atheism , just as you are Jeff ;) How about we discuss where the scientific evidence leans towards when it comes to the existence of the soul and afterlife. Heck Matt would never debate someone who knows the evidence like Alex tsakiris of skeptiko . Alex would wipe the floor with him

[@jeffc5974]

All humans are emotional, but you seem to be intending it as an insult. Why is that? If the evidence is scientific, that means it is testable. Matt specifically mentions a test that has always failed to show the claim to be true. Of course that doesn't make it immediately false, but it also means there is no evidence for the claim. Do you have a testable claim that has passed such a test?

[@angelbrother1238]

@@jeffc5974 Jeff of course . When someone has a cardiac arrest within 30-40 seconds not only is there no measurable electrical activity in the brain but there is no interneuronal activity either . This means that even the individual neurons have stopped communicating with each other . If there is evidence that leans towards a patient whose NDE was timed as happing after this period then that is evidence that leans towards the soul and afterlife . Let me guess what Matt is suggesting ? Putting up the hidden signs in the patients rooms ??? The problem with Matt is that he’s closing the doors to all other scientific data and saying I will only lean towards this view if this criteria is met . The hidden signs have been argued and debunked as the only evidence that would make someone lean towards ndes being real . This is absolutely silly when there is already a ton of evidence that leans towards ndes being real . This is why Matt is 1000% chicken to go on the skeptiko podcast and debate this with Alex. Matt doesn’t care about whether something is true . He only cares that his religion of atheism must be true .

[@angelbrother1238]

@@jeffc5974 I intend it as the truth . Matt always claims he’s open to evidence but his actions speak of someone that doesn’t want it to be true and desperately wants atheism to be true . As I said Jeff why not email Matt and ask him why he won’t discuss ndes on the skeptiko podcast with Alex tsakiris I bet you anything Matt won’t even respond ;)

[@angelbrother1238]

@@jeffc5974 so Jeff tell us which evidence is Matt looking for ?? Was it the hidden signs ;) Or something else

[@jidey0]

„They’re NOT the same.“ vs „It was actually HIS death“ I hope that later that night, Matt called this guy just to hang up on him.

[@dreamflier]

Hahahaha....it is so convoluted since the days of St Augustine and it's amusing watching apologists tripping themselves trying to explain this concept ....how I wish this Trinity was not fabricated and interpolated by interested parties in the early days of Pauline Christianity....

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@@dreamflier What are you talking about? The whole bible is fabricated

[@dreamflier]

@@TheTruthKiwi If you wish to seek the truth and open your mind, the information are all out there even on KZbin and internet. If you don't wish to hear from atheist or ex-Christian scholars/hisyorians like Gary Erhman or Michael Carrier, you can try Christian authors like Joseph Kelly and Raymond Brown. Just a wikipedia google on the Trinity will lead to a trove of info and knowledge on the history and creation of the Trinity.

[@AvNotasian]

@@dreamflier So god was praying to himself and asking himself why he couldn't hear himself anymore? Or are you saying jesus isn't god?

[@Brickerbrack]

@@dreamflier Do you mean _Bart_ Ehrman and _Richard_ Carrier..?

[@g07denslicer]

I love watching apologists twist themselves into pretzels trying to explain how the trinity are simultaneously the same being and not the same being.

[@missq2413]

Their religion made them talk like an idiot.

[@russellgettons3333]

Mel Qui If you are so intelligent explain to the rest of the world about the father the son and the holy spirit

[@missq2413]

@@russellgettons3333 A father is a male parent. A son is a male offspring. Holy spirit is a fictional character from a fictional book called the Bible. Next time, just look up the dictionary.

[@russellgettons3333]

Mel Qui sounds like you need to get saved

[@labella9291]

@@russellgettons3333 Sounds like they are saved.. Saved from stupidity in believing in a magical sky daddy that takes all the credit for all the good, and leave the blame for everything bad for anything and anyone but himself.

[@bowser515]

It's beautiful (and sad) seeing this guy try to tip toe around his own silly beliefs in order to justify them. I think he's trying to convince himself more than anything....

[@starfishsystems]

The closest he gets to a plausible (albeit mythological) truth is the reference to butchering and eating a lamb as pointing to the nature of sacrifice. As both carnivores and social beings who feel some kindness toward baby mammals, we can wonder at the paradox of sacrifice. But in no way does this ever lead to "therefore god exists and is doing something for some reason." Fail.

[@xmillion1704]

It seems like he's making up shit to try to make himself seem less stupid.

[@PhrontDoor]

​@@starfishsystems True. And the OLD TESTAMENT already gave a ritual for forgiveness, so Jesus wasn't even needed. There were atonement rituals, and a goat was offered to pay for the sins of all the people, not just one person. And you didn't have to believe in the goat nor in the god to be forgiven.

[@piesho]

"One of the reasons why I like debating with the religious is that you never know what they are going to say next." Hitchens.

[@joseconcepcion4257]

miss Hitchens, he is so needed today

[@kingsxkids]

@@joseconcepcion4257 I love Hitchens, even though he was so full of shit most of the time with his strawman arguments. He was very witty.

[@jonq8714]

@@kingsxkids he didn't strawman, he just shone a light on the nonsense in a way that even the devout could find witty and humorous, it was his gift.

[@davidcattin7006]

Reason I don't is that you ALWAYS know what they're going to say next. Waste of time.

[@stevencorey7623]

Title misleading. He doesn’t answer Matt at all

[@VACatholic]

At least he didn't get angry and start yelling that Matt was strawmanning and being incredibly mean, just like Matt does whenever he's challenged. Matt could learn a lot about communicating ideas from these men.

[@VACatholic]

@k1ck_it[db] And yet here I am not angry at Matt. You can use whatever excuse you want. It is your right to express yourself however you want. But you're just rationalizing your abhorrent behavior and how you treat other people as justified. You are also the first person who complains when you find someone willing to fight back. I suggest being a bit more perceptive. You will learn a lot.

[@VACatholic]

@k1ck_it[db] You do realize that I'm saying Matt throws temper tantrums right? And that's in stark contrast to how these men behave when treated with a belligerent buffoon? That these men respond with grace and charity and go along with it, and don't get rip roaring mad and hang up on people who disagree? Who do you think I'm saying is getting upset? Because it's certainly not me, and it's certainly not the Christians in the video. That is in stark contrast to you, who have already missed the point and are going off on a rant, just like Matt would. You should relax, engage your brain, and think through what's going on. Think through what's being said and why you're reacting as you are. Why you feel the need to lash out like a cornered animal. It's really not healthy to behave like that, as not the least of which it's detrimental to your mental health. I hope you find peace.

[@igotstoknow2]

You are misleading your life with defining God down to justify your lifestyle.

[@theod6898]

ndirish only when people are dense as hell he is extremely good at debating

[@rogerroger5649]

"Are they one?". Matt realized that Glen was not going to answer the question, after asking and re-asking it, because Glen knows that to answer it honestly would validate what Matt said so, Matt kindly moves on. I guess what I don't understand is, if you are truly honest with yourself, would you not pause to question your beliefs when you find yourself constantly having to dance around the answers or come up with metaphorical answers to what are non-metaphorical questions about those beliefs? You can see Glen's mind working to come up with some reason, with some angle, to justify his beliefs. Would that not give someone who honestly wants to find the truth pause to at least consider why they have to justify their thinking in that way?

[@davidr1431]

Yep, totally agree. Stuck in a spiderweb of self supporting beliefs, unable to break even a single thread.

[@davidalvarado6420]

When talking about God who is transcendent and far above our own comprehension, than you should pause and think critically before trying to respond so you don’t make false claims that are not Biblically supported. If a person wants honesty in a response than they need to realize that there are many ways that the questioner can have his question answered without having a basic yes or no response given the depth of the subject

[@endofscene]

@@davidalvarado6420 So you think the Bible is the "word of God"?

[@rogerroger5649]

@@davidalvarado6420 David, as you pointed out, they pause to make sure they follow what they have read in the bible, not to follow where the true verifiable evidence and facts we have discovered lead. It's not a problem of wanting to respond honestly to what the facts and evidence show us, it is to make sure what you say doesn't violate your predetermined beliefs and, to the best of your ability, to try to manipulate the facts and evidence to force them to fit your beliefs. Having said that I want to make sure that you know that I think it is fine if someone wants to believe in a god as long as it doesn't harm anyone and they don't try to force those beliefs on others through laws or regulations enforced on everyone. Discussion like this video are created to try to convince people that one side or the other is searching for the real truth but, religion is struggling in that attempt.

[@GuitarDog_atx]

@@davidalvarado6420 You said that god is "transcendent and far above our own comprehension", and then you reference a poorly-written and flawed book *written by ignorant humans* as an absolute that describes this deity and what he wants. You don't see a problem with this? This is typical: apologists know everything about their god and what makes him tick, ...until you bring up the pro-rape, pro-slavery, genocides, land stealing, incompetence, ethnocentricity, pettiness, insecurity, etc. , and then all of a sudden, "god is outside of space and time"

[@amadddd0]

First argues that Jesus and God aren't the same, then says god died for us... How does that work

[@ataho2000]

It works with magic.

[@Matthew24.4]

Yuon Flemming - Jesus is God. Jesus is the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus is the Ancient of Days (Daniel 7:9-10). Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1). Jesus is God manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16). Jesus is the Father and the Son. Mary was a virgin and it was the seed of God’s spirit that made her pregnant. Contrary to popular beliefs in Christianity, the orthodox trinity is a lie invented by the Roman to appease the citizens of many pagan religions within the vast Roman Empire that believed in 3 Gods. Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is ONE Lord (Deuteronomy 6:4). And Jesus answered him, the First of all commandments is, Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord. I could cite dozens more verses to support this. Sadly, the trinity stops many Muslims and Jews from becoming Christians because they know, and they are correct, because the OT is super clear that the Lord our God is ONE Lord. God is triune in nature and so is man. God made man is His image. I am body, soul and spirit. God is Father, Word and Holy Ghost. One Spirit, one Lord, one God and Father of all (Ephesians 4:4-6).

[@Matthew24.4]

One has to ignore very CLEAR scripture to believe the orthodox trinity. Are we you going to believe the bible or what you’ve been taught by men? Ephesians 4:4-6 4 There is ONE body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 ONE LORD, one faith, one baptism, 6 ONE God and FATHER of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. We don’t read that passage and believe that there are 3 Bodies, Faiths and 3 baptisms so why do people think it is talking about 3 persons of a trinity? It’s not in context when one does that. To believe in the catholic orthodox trinity requires one to believe in 3 Gods, 3 Lords, 3 Jehovahs, 3 persons, and 3 Saviours etc etc - there is simply no way around it. I’ve just used the bible to prove that there is only ONE Lord. What is this ONE Lords name? How many SAVIOURS are there and what is his name? We all know that there is only ONE Saviour and that his name is Jesus. Read these verses carefully and pray for the truth and discernment. Isaiah 43:11-12 (KJV) I, even I, AM the LORD; and 👉beside me there is NO SAVIOUR👈. 12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith 👉THE LORD👈, that 👉I am God👈. One Saviour, One Lord, One God - his name is the Lord Jesus Christ 👆 John 20:28-29 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, 👉My Lord and my God👈. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. Jesus didn’t correct Thomas and tell him about any other Lords or Gods. God is Father, Word and Holy Ghost. The Bible literally says it in Galatians 4:6 👉the Spirit of HIS SON👈 is in our hearts because the 👉Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus Christ👈 - Jesus said in John 14:18 that HE (Jesus) will not leave us comfortless, Jesus said 👉 I WILL COME TO YOU 👈. In John 14:16 Jesus said that the Father will send the comforter (Holy Spirit). So did the Father or Jesus send the Holy Spirit? Thats because Jesus is the Father (Isaiah 9:6), and the Holy Spirit (Galatians 4:6) ie they are One. The orthodox trinity teaches that Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, or the Father, but the bible says that Jesus is BOTH of them. Jesus is the “I AM HE” from the OT and there is NO-ONE beside him. If there are 3 persons in the Godhead why did Jesus say that he is ALONE? Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that 👉I, even I, AM HE👈, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,👉 Before Abraham was, I AM👈 One Spirit, one Lord, One God and Father of all in Ephesians 4:4-6. That is NOT one essence, that is ONE person as we see in Daniel 7 and many other verses. Hebrews 1:1-3 is a good start. 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners 👉spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets👈, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: You have the invisible God who spake in time past and the Son who has declared him. The one on the throne in Daniel 7 and Revelation 4 will tell us who the Lamb his Son Jesus Christ is declaring. Who is on the throne will tell us whom the Son is the express image of. Daniel 7:9-10 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and 👉the Ancient of days👈did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. The Ancient of days in Daniel 7:9-10 on the throne who has the Son of man coming in the clouds to him is the Father. That one on the throne has the 👉exact👈 same description as the Son of man himself in Revelation 1:13-16. Because they are both the same person, the same God, the one God and Father of all Jesus Christ. Who is God in Hebrews 1:1 whom the Son is declaring? The God who spake in times past from Hebrews 1. 2 Samuel 23:2-3 2 The 👉Spirit of the Lord SPAKE by me👈, and his word was in my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, the 👉Rock of Israel spake to me👈, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. 2 Samuel 23:2-3 says Christ is the one Spirit of the LORD, the ROCK of Israel, the God who spake through David the prophet and all the prophets of the Old Testament. 👉👉Therefore👈👈 please get this, Christ is the God of Hebrews 1:1. Because the God of Hebrews 1:1 spake in times past. Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, And so, the man Christ Jesus is the express image of Christ the one and true invisible God. Hebrews 1:1-3. The Son has declared and is the express image of the one who spake in times past, that is Jesus Christ who spake in times past, therefore Jesus Christ is the one invisible Father God whom he is declaring. Therefore Jesus Christ is the Ancient of days on the throne in Daniel 7:9-10. There is only ONE Lord, ONE Saviour, ONE God nd his name is Jesus. The OT tells us this and Jesus himself confirmed it in the NT and said that it is the 1st commandment. Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29 - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: On the surface whether or not you believe in the orthodox trinity is not a salvation issue but the trinity doctrine is a stumbling block from Satan to the Muslims and Jews who only believe in One God - they believe christians are idolators for worshipping 3 Gods. John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins. Again, Jesus stating that he is the “I AM HE” from the OT. God is a spirit that cannot be seen (other than in the flesh as Jesus). John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Jesus is the SPOKEN word of God which is how he is the (spoken) Word and God simultaneously. God spoke the universe and life into existence with his literal spoken Word eg and God SAID let there be light. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The Godhead is a very deep doctrinal topic that very few people have a deep understanding of. It is very strong meat of the word and far too deep to cover in a comment. I will leave you with a video that will explain the biblical trinity and the history of the orthodox trinity. I encourage you and anyone else that is interested in understanding God, his nature and his word to watch the videos. Godhead Explained - Valiant Baptist Church History of the Orthodox Trinity - Valiant Baptist Church David Bernard is another very good resource on the Oneness of God. I strongly disagree with many of his other doctrines eg he is Pentecostal but he has a lot of knowledge on the trinity. He’s done quite a few debates. Thanks for reading this far and God Bless.

[@winterwolf5741]

@Daniel Siversson, why would anyone need to study something that so obviously contradicts itself? It's akin to a mathematics book stating that 1+1 = 2 and a few pages later stating that 1+1=21.2. I do not believe there could possibly be any amount of study or "understanding" that would make those statements equal/correct. Perhaps if we just close our eyes (and mind) and believe it, then surely it will make sense. Right?!?!? /eyeroll

[@Matthew24.4]

Lava Lamp - there is no contradiction is my two comment explanation above and that’s because I’ve based it on the bible and not man made doctrine eg the trinity.

[@aussieatheist960]

"The Father's in the Son and the Son is in the Father!" Sounds like a close family right there 😂

[@troywright359]

But people say that about others all the time. "You can see he's got his father in him". Nothing unsavoury is meant by that. Cheap attempt to attack Christians

[@jaclo3112]

@@troywright359 no. It's pointing put the ridiculousness of the christian mythology. But i understand your dire need for christians to feel attacked personally. The persecution complex is part and parcel of christian dogma.

[@troywright359]

@@jaclo3112 if you said the same thing about Islam, muslims would take it personally as well. Do they have a persecution complex as well? You're smart, you don't have to pretend that an attack/insult on someone's belief isn't an attack on the institution as a whole. A genuine person might have said "perhaps you mean an attack on christianity, rather than individual Christians". But that's not you, and I understand your desire to smugly box up my response with a bow of faded superiority

[@jaclo3112]

@@troywright359 attacking an ideology and mythology isn't attacking an institution. christianity isn't an institution. neither is islam. A genuine person would know the difference and not screech their tone policing commands. but that's not you and I understand your desire to control the speech of others so as to protect the depraved christian mythology and preserve the required persecution complex while struggling with your own self worth and ego. good luck with that.

[@troywright359]

@@jaclo3112 stop gaslighting. "You trying to control my speech" lol so disagreeing with you is an attempt to control what you say? Using the word 'screeching' in this context is disingenuous as well. I can admit when my usage of the word institution might be wrong, no worries there. The rest of your post is pointless designation, it's a classic tactic for attack. I wonder if you feel this way about all who have Christian beliefs or if it's all religious beliefs. I've already conceded my imperfections twice, too be fair you started off with a snarky reply so I kinda knew what to expect

[@adrianpintea9675]

The question was not answered. He was just saying "what" his sect believes happened but not "why" it happened like that.

[@sladey21]

Welcome to religion

[@benjamin_4694]

I LOVE the look on Matt's face when Scrivener equates biblical blood sacrifice to going to the local butcher. Gotta love that cognitive dissonance.

[@k7450]

You seem to have mistaken the look of cognitive dissonance for someone tired of listening to bullshit. How have you managed to convince yourself that there was any cognitive dissonance happening here for Matt?

[@ringo666]

@@k7450 the cognitive dissonance came from Scrivener, not Matt. Scrivener should have recalled, before blathering his bullshit about barbecue that his bible plainly says that Yahweh liked the aroma of burning blood. And I DONT think too many Israelites enjoyed roast DOVE, the most 'pure' of sacrificial animals.

[@christopherfox3891]

You dillahunty fanboys are the most vile group I’ve ever seen. You dillahunty fanboys love praising matt for smirking and making faces, but if someone did that to him you’d be the first to point out how unprofessional that person is. You then follow up the double standard praising, with unfounded ad hominem claims, again you’d lose your mind if a theist said the same about you or your god dillahunty.

[@fergusdenoon1255]

I completely missunderstood the narrative here, I thought he was saying after his crucifiction they took him down, had a barbie and ate the jesus. He then obviously resides in the tomb of the human stomach for a few days before he awakes again in a bowl movement where he leaves the tomb and is then seen later on the side of the road.

[@jaclo3112]

@Philippians 2:10-11 yeah. That's just pure filth and disgusting. Human meat sacrifice of an innocent virgin as a blood magic appeasement is morally depraved. Never mind you have to perform thr mental gymnastics that the god father and god son are the same...so god sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself for how he created humans. Thank you for posting for all to see those filthy, vile verses written by uncivilised, barbaric men. It allows us to see how much humans have progressed socially, mentally and scientifically and why the bible is so irrelevant and rejected in moral, civilised societies.

[@cornonthecobbob5617]

“Who actually believes that?” is not an argument.

[@launabanauna8958]

Corn on the cob Bob “Who actually believes that?” Christians.

[@bencrossley647]

If you believe the other person to be creating a strawman it is.

[@cornonthecobbob5617]

Ben Crossley I agree. It is the fallacy of mass appeal. It’s a common sales tactic actually lol

[@richardleeskinneriii9640]

Apparently, billions of people do

[@johnd.shultz7423]

@@richardleeskinneriii9640 Thus a large portion of humanity is Still living psychologically in the dark ages....

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

Matt's take is absolutely spot on

[@mountbrocken]

Spot on with a 2 year old.

[@au8363]

how?

[@sledzeppelin]

@@mountbrocken Explain what Matt has wrong. Can you?

[@mountbrocken]

@@sledzeppelin Very simple. He is misrepresenting the purpose of Jesus' death and equating it literally, and not metaphorically (as scripture does) with a blood sacrifice. In fact, the earliest theory or model concerning the atonement was the ransom theory, not a blood propitiation theory.

[@sledzeppelin]

@@mountbrocken What was the actual purpose of Jesus' death?

[@--Maximillian--]

Tapperdetapperde tap tap tap. Go take dance lessons Glen.

[@gerritjahn2486]

I just love how Matt stays cool, analyzes every statement and perfectly cancels it with reason and logic ... good old Matt

[@merlinquark5659]

I was going to say the same thing about Glen 😅

[@DaveCM]

@@merlinquark5659 even though he couldn't defend nor explain his position? I don't think he even understands what he is saying and never rationally thought it through

[@lew1689]

Reason and logic from an atheistic worldview?

[@gerritjahn2486]

@@lew1689 there is no such thing as "atheist world view". Atheism means not believing in a god. That's it. And the logic behind atheism: there is not a single piece of evidence of any god or gods, science proves "holy" literature wrong and thusly, there is no reason to believe in gods.

[@robloxmaverick77]

@@gerritjahn2486 Then what is the point of describing differing world views? What worldview do you refer to the people who don’t believe in God? You need to define world views to understand the other beliefs that are associated with the worldview. Like for example, a theist believes God created the world via the Big Bang. An atheist believes that something else caused the Big Bang, or nothing caused it at all. That could be the multiverse, antimatter, believing that the universe is infinite etc. The theist believes that there are objective moral values, the atheist may believe that morality is relative. How could you possibly understand someone’s opinions when they, according to you, don’t even have a worldview? I’m guessing it’s a deflection to avoid a burden of proof or an explanation for their opinions.

[@Grim_Beard]

Title is misleading. It should say "dishonest 'Christian' dodges questions because answering them would demonstrate the falsehood of Christian doctrine". I suppose that is a bit long though.

[@bdpickett]

I love how this guy, to make Matt look disingenuous, basically resorts to saying Christ and God are two separate entities. Pretty sure the vast majority of Christians would call that blasphemy.

[@thereawakening9475]

Matt doesn't understand the basic tenants of Christianity and he tries to debate against it. It's the definition of foolish

[@bdpickett]

@@thereawakening9475 He was a Christian for over twenty years, was studying with the intent of becoming a minister when he gave up religion. He's read the Bible multiple times and has given lectures over it. He's been hosting the Atheist Experience for almost 20 years and has been actively engaged with this discussion for longer. I'd argue he's pretty well qualified to talk on the subject.

[@thereawakening9475]

@@bdpickett that's a lazy way to look at it, by the answers he gives, he may have been to church for twenty years but has zero idea what the Bible really states. His bio says he went into depth with his beliefs but never went to seminary school and has zero secondary education at all. In another words my degree in mathematics holds more weight than his little KZbin show. The guy still believes that the Bible supports slavery and screws up the nature of Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit. So in laman terms, he knows nothing

[@bdpickett]

@@thereawakening9475 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. Leviticus 25:44-46

[@thereawakening9475]

@@bdpickett again that shows a lack of study. If you understood servitude in the bible it was always voluntary and if they wanted to leave, they could leave Deutoronomy 23:15 You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you. If someone kidnapped someone else they were put to death Exodus 21:16 “He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death. Servitude is not slavery. They weren't kidnapped, it was voluntary. They could leave whenever. They sold themselves to avoid poverty, or they sold themselves to acquire property. If you are saying the Bible supports slavery, you are calling LeBron James a slave as he sells himself via contract

[@NullHypatheist]

This is why I gave up debating with believers. You point out a massive flaw in their claim, and they respond by restating their claim.

[@whatwecalllife7034]

Dude!! This!!

[@MrDigztheswagking]

Right

[@richardlawson6787]

kind of like arguing with a ten year old that santas not real...you will never win that argument

[@mrdrone4253]

I'm glad somebody never gave up on Matt

[@kusnezoff8705]

Jesus is still even now inviting you to life eternal. one day you will wish you had this chance over again. don't let that day come, take the invitation instead and give your life to Jesus and live forever, travel the universe, have all the questions you have ever asked answered, you have no answers and you know it behind your doors in your committees you know you have nothing but more questions. Jesus will answer them all and more that you have no ever thought of asking yet. live forever and enjoy being immortal with the love of God in your heart and mind. just ask Jesus to come into your life and He will and all of your sins will be forgiven.

[@jeffdixon1620]

This was one of the saddest Christian attempts I have heard.

[@cnault3244]

William Lane Craig ( doctorate in mythology): Hold my beer.....

[@laurameszaros9547]

@Jeff Dixon : Agreed. Probably the most unconvincing explanation of the Christian account ever. Good reply from Dillahunty, although I want to know why he is so bellicose with his phone-in callers but managed to be courteous and keep a straight face throughout this discussion.

[@magnatcleo2043]

@@laurameszaros9547 Because Glen seems to have enough restraint to not interrupt Matt every five seconds, unlike the majority of theist AXP callers. Even if his argument isn't good, being patient helps him stay off Matt's bad side.

[@cnault3244]

@Joe W The Muslim ones usually post large tracts of the Quran then explain that what it actually says doesn't mean that, it means something else.... and often they rend by saying that to properly understand it you have to read it in the original language.

[@laurameszaros9547]

@Joe W I doubt WLC would ever agree to debate Matt.

[@Raydensheraj]

Being in Atheist is hard. You care deeply about the truth and Science...maybe Philosophy and Politics...but then comes the Christian or Islamic Apologists with their pathetic attempts to literally offend your Intelligence 🤣

[@russellgettons3333]

Raydensheraj atheism is intellectual and eternal suicide

[@russellgettons3333]

Raydensheraj Jesus Christ did not come to the earth to die for fun he came to offer us eternal life something science has no comprehension of

[@russellgettons3333]

Bobby Smith Just get saved dummy you’ll thank me in the end

[@russellgettons3333]

Kuffar Legion You believe in nothing you have more faith than me you really need to have a little think about something do you think the apostles walked into countries like Ephesus Corinth Philippi Rome Greece Galatia Colosse etc with all of their gods and idols and just said hey guys Jesus Christ died on the cross for you he is the true God just believe in him do you think they just said oh okay No they came with demonstration and power from the holy spirit and changed nations into believing that Jesus Christ is who he said he is The Bible says believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved do this and he will give you the free gift of eternal life

[@anti-moronleague2949]

Try living in Indiana. The ignorance is palpable. Morons to the left, idiots to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with poo

[@dalex60]

Glen didn't provide any facts to support his intpretatons... Typical.

[@TheProfessor3373]

Hahaha!! This guy is literally backtracking on his own belief system bc he realizes how ridiculous it sounds. He’s just playing word games- props to Matt for remaining patient here...

[@whatwecalllife7034]

Matt asks, "couldnt god have done it differently?", to which the other guy doesn't even address that. Interesting..... The theatrical scene of Jesus seems more akin to the ancient Hebrew scapegoat offering, whereby one's "sins" would be cast onto a literal goat and the goat was released into the wilderness [to be killed and eaten by wild animals] or straight up killed as part of an atonement ritual.

[@Angrybogan]

Answer: No, because the penalty for sin is death and sacrifice is needed for the penalty to be paid. Just in the same way that a fine needs to be paid.

[@whatwecalllife7034]

@@Angrybogan Is it not people who determine what the fine is? Is it not people who also determine what actions constitute paying a fine?

[@arlethgrimaldo3534]

Well, that is assuming this isn't the best possible universe. If God is eternal and outside of space time, then he knows all the possible outcomes, maybe this is the best possible universe with free willed creatures capable of love Plus, God is just, so justice must be done, justice for our crimes of evilness, and who can pay the price? He can't just let it slide and act like nothing happened, he is just So, instead of letting us be separated from him in the next life, he comes and inserts himself in OUR problem and OUR pain, he takes responsibility and suffers with us, and since Jesus is perfect and sinless then he can pay the price, no one else can, because all men have sinned, they chose they wanted death, because they thought they could become as God.

[@whatwecalllife7034]

@@arlethgrimaldo3534 The immediate problem that smacks me in the face with your response is *why assume any of that*? The second thing is that none of what you presented interferes with this god's ability to select a different method to enact his "justice", and I use that term loosely because this god is depicted as being unjust, in my mind. Why incarnate yourself as a human, that is not you but is, depending on what chapters you read, commit suicide by cop, except "sike I'm actually Jesusweh and I can just respawn so I didnt lose anything lol", in order to forgive humans for their "sins" and rewards them with "eternal life" but they gotta die first, so no confirmation on that, but only if they believe all of that? Doesn't Yahweh set the rules on what's required as punishment for "crimes of evilness"? Why another blood sacrifice as he loves so much? Can this god not simply say, "hey you cant offend or slight me cuz I'm above those petty human things so don't worry about that. What you should worry about is how you treat other people, for example make amends with the people you harm, not me cuz you cant harm me, and try not to unnecessarily harm other people, non-human animals, and the planet"?

[@russellward4624]

Richard P but why is it needed? That’s the point. Supposedly god made the rules right?

[@stephenjames5745]

That was an embarrassing answer. If Jesus kept being god and went on doing what he always did for eternity, that wasn’t a sacrifice. It was a shitty weekend. How can that be so difficult to understand?

[@Grim_Beard]

It wasn't even a shitty weekend. While he was 'dead', Jesus either went back to being 'god' in heaven, went to heaven as a human soul, or simply didn't exist for a few days. None of which would be shitty - two of the three possibilities are good and the third is just nothing.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

When you're livelihood depends on not understanding it then it's quite easy

[@hellfirdragon17]

This, plenty of people, like POW's, were treated a lot worse than Jesus was. Hell, read the greek myths about how Zeus would punish people; I'd rather be crucified than cursed to push a boulder up a hill everyday for eons.

[@MrNateSPF]

And ironically what he's supposedly threatening every human with is infinity worse than what he "went thru".

[@olle12]

@@Grim_Beard Most people have sacrificed more than God ever has done, it ain't a sacrifice if your coming back.

[@PronatorTendon]

I would be embarrassed if I considered myself a mentally intact adult who actively cultivated a relationship with an invisible friend. I'd have serious difficulty showing myself in public.

[@delmarfo]

One day whether you believe it or not, you will stand before God.

[@mystery6411]

Fair enough Mate. Reject every evidence pointing to him. I'm sure you'll land in the Trutth.

[@PronatorTendon]

@@mystery6411 What would you think if I told you I had an invisible, incorporeal, spiritual tree in my backyard? You'd rightly consider me either insαne or a liar

[@briancarton1804]

@@mystery6411 I'm an atheist, if I'm wrong this god is a psychopath and if he wants to burn me in hell gor not believing , that makes him / her / it an evil being not worthy of my time or worship.

[@cliftongaither6642]

@@delmarfo if i stood before your god, I'd piss on his shoes.

[@turboguppy3748]

This guy is seriously confused about what he's saying. Poor Matt keeps trying to keep him focused, but the guy has convinced himself all these contradictory and bizarre things are somehow real.

[@JamesAsp]

They are real

[@turboguppy3748]

@@JamesAsp and your evidence for these magical bizarre things being real is....? Don't worry, I can wait. Been waiting for 45 years and still haven't seen anything convincing so not expecting much.

[@mondaye03]

@@JamesAsp do you have proof?

[@kaiza6467]

JamesAsp and remember, “it says so in a book” is not proof. That’s where the claim came from.

[@JamesAsp]

@@turboguppy3748 You wrote: "and your evidence" That we exist

[@chrismofer]

as soon as the guy started saying "god the son.. now god the brother.." over and over instead of an argument, or an answer, or anything that resembled intelligence, i had to click away. Matt's right, and I do believe him. this channel is nonsense, guys.

[@_a.z]

Well said!

[@Kvothe3]

Strongly disagree. The Unbelievable? show is excellent and provides a platform for many great conversations, including this one. As an atheist it is one of the few Christian things I still follow. Also got to meet the host in person at a conference and he is a super nice guy :-)

[@RazorbackPT]

@@Kvothe3 As an atheist I also agree that this channel is great.

[@jayd4ever]

yes jesus became brother

[@wtfjesus8251]

@@jayd4ever : Q: for whom??? Himself, own Father or Holy Spirit? 😂

[@Fastlan3]

Funny how this video ends right before Matt expressed Jesus paid a weekend of death and then went back home. There was no real sacrifice.

[@steve2653]

It's not really death if you are alive again three days later.

[@rodbrewster4629]

@@steve2653 Not only did he come back to life he gets to play god for eternity. Quite the reward for a bad weekend.

[@jaclo3112]

@@JamesAsp human beings have endured far more pain than the jesus demigod in biblical mythology. Even women in labour have endured and suffered more and some even longer than 3 days.

[@JamesAsp]

@@jaclo3112 And? Do you think God finds pleasure in pain?

[@jaclo3112]

@@JamesAsp which god?

[@Aguijon1982]

Did god sacrifice himself to himself for a weekend? Yes. Next question please

[@victorbrown3032]

Such a nonsensical argument from the Aussie...🥴🤦🏻‍♂️

[@frankrodriguez5923]

Matt crushed him🎯 he never answered the question. It’s the old apologist grabbing for straws-

[@igotstoknow2]

How can Matt 'crush' someone with his purposeless empty noisy words based on defining God down? Child molesters also define God down with the subjective/relative morality that Matt supports.

[@gospelcenteredministries7876]

I watched the clip objectively and I'm more than willing to admit when Matt wins an exchange. This simply is not the case. How did Matt crush him? Please provide an example.

[@jackdaniels9179]

@@gospelcenteredministries7876 matt steelmanned his argument, the christian denied that description of the holy trinity and then described it in the same way.

[@jackdaniels9179]

@@igotstoknow2 guess what, bud...Christians support subjective morality too.

[@hensonsf2701]

@@igotstoknow2 Because he crushed him with reason. I am sorry reason is just “empty noisy words”…

[@jrivera345]

Matt destroyed this guy. Watch the whole "Discussion"

[@Draezeth]

Matt "destroys" people by virtue of his utter lack of intellectual integrity, and completely lopsided standards of evidence. Every time I listen to the guy I get a headache.

[@Darkmortal100]

@@Draezeth dont talk about needing evidence while you believe in your imaginary sky daddy.

[@Draezeth]

@@Darkmortal100 Don't talk about evidence at all if you believe Matt Dillahunty.

[@Darkmortal100]

@@Draezeth I came to the conclusion that god doesn't exist long before i ever heard of Matt. Meanwhile youve been spoonfed your opinion from a young age and you arent capable of critically questioning it.

[@Draezeth]

@@Darkmortal100 If I was spoonfed and unable to think critically about my own beliefs, I wouldn't be on this channel, listening to atheists. I've just been convinced by superior arguments and my own experience. And hey, if you feel the same way, fine. But your labeling of God as "magic" betrays the fact that you aren't interested in criticizing your own views, only religion.

[@johannesbrahms9528]

"It was his death that paid for sin; that's the story." ... So Matt's initial statement was right.

[@au8363]

Jesus Is King

[@thoughtsengineer]

@@au8363 the king of fiction 🙃

[@unkaumanguy1439]

His death? Wasn't he supposedly the son of god, a god in his own right? Who was killed by mortal men and returned after a couple days at the spa. If this story is true, it was all done for show. Bad bloody theatre at best.

[@awesomemccoolname7111]

​@unkaumanguy1439 the reason Christ had to do it was not for show, it's because none of us could have. He lived a perfect life and broke no laws. God didn't sacrifice himself for show but because he knew we couldn't do it ourselves. And he always knew it would go down like that.

[@johannesbrahms9528]

@@awesomemccoolname7111 So he created a problem in order to solve it. Fucking genius.

[@rustlingbushes7678]

"...sacrifice himself to himself for a weekend, to fix everything for everybody." "...God did take responsibility for his handiwork, and it was his death that actually paid the Sin." So, when God screwed up, he sacrificed himself in human form to his deistic form, for his creation's mistakes that he universally created. Roger that.

[@merlinquark5659]

No, you have completely missed the point. No Christian believes that, if you actually listened to us instead of assuming what we believe and then mock that (classic straw man arguing), you would know that it is we who screwed up not God, I know it's not God's fault for my messed up life, but God came to fix our screwed up life. When you read the gospels you can see who God really is in Jesus, and Jesus is no screw up, he is the greatest man to ever live, and he loves you. (though that probably doesn't mean much coming from me)

[@rustlingbushes7678]

@@merlinquark5659, in the garden God punished Adam and Eve's sin with painful pregnancy, and eating food from the ground (Genesis 3:16-18), then God punished humans sins with a flood, because he regretted making humans (Genesis 6:7). God actually recognized that he made a mistake, and instead of forgiving humans for his failed creation, he drowned babies, children, women, men, plants and animals. I'd argue that the animals were completely innocent, and that the humans were also innocent. Adam and Eve didn't have the knowledge of good and evil (right from wrong), until they ate the fruit. Plus, it takes 2/3 of the Bible for God in his infinite wisdom to send Jesus and atone for our sins, when God could simply forgive us for his flawed design. Also, we still have to eat our food from the ground, and have painful pregnancies. Humans are still being punished for Adam and Eve's sins, so what did Jesus actually atone for?

[@rustlingbushes7678]

@King Saldua, a man walked to the beach one morning, and saw that the beach was covered in hundreds of Starfish. A child was picking them up, and throwing them into the ocean, one by one. The man asked the child why they were throwing the Starfish into the water, since it was impossible to save them all, and it didn't matter. The child picked up a Starfish, threw it in the water, looked at the man and said, "It mattered to that one.". In 100 years, who will remember me? Probably no one. If they do, they probably won't care. I matter now to my family and friends, and more importantly myself. We know that we have this life to live, and it's important to make it worthwhile, and to improve it for future generations, not consider it dirty rags in comparison to the Afterlife.

[@paradoxward2533]

would have been simpler (and more of an advantage to us) if he scrapped this world and tried again.

[@rustlingbushes7678]

@@paradoxward2533, that's pretty much his track record.

[@stevebenton9193]

It's hilarious listening to Christians trying to explain how the "three persons" of the Trinity relate to each other.

[@slei4676]

So it's our fault that you can't understand it like what XD?

[@slei4676]

@Dominique Roydor i've heard atheists were very open-minded and great thinkers

[@slei4676]

​@Dominique Roydor So you are only great thinkers

[@rikk319]

@@slei4676 Another sign that you're incapable--at present--of forming or even asking a meaningful, honest question, is that you're using the black and white fallacy...either someone is a great thinker, or someone is an idiot. No one here said they are great thinkers. But with this particular question, yes...your ability to be objective is compromised. It's almost guaranteed with a religious person. You simply can't bring yourself to question your religious leaders, or the deity you believe in. It's one of the hallmarks of cult-like thinking--never question the leadership or the god they tell you to believe in. You stop questioning, and you stop thinking.

[@slei4676]

@@rikk319 nice and you just used black and white fallacy too: either you don't believe in God or you are not thinking at all. "You simply can't bring yourself to question your religious leaders, or the deity you believe in" Show the evidence for your claim? Besides that you strawmanned me. I never said that "either someone is a great thinker, or someone is an idiot". My comment was sarcastic but maybe I stated it misleadingly to look like genuine question. It was regarding the fact that atheists consider themselfs to be intellectually more open and capable than religious people and your comment proves that. And none of you provided any arguments supporting you claim that God's trinity is nonsens. You are actually the one's that don't question the problem. You just reject it as stupid with no explanation. If you have some good arguments to backup your claim then I'm open to debate, maybe you will convince me that trinity is in fact nonsens.

[@rofl22rofl22]

Let's assume that the idea of death as a way of solving the problem of man's sin makes sense to me for a moment (it doesn't). What about the resurrection? We agree that if a parent sacrifices their life for that of their son/daughter they pay a great cost. That's why it's seen as a great and very selfless thing, they're permanently giving away their life so that their child may live their own. Simply giving up 3 days in the face of eternity is, in a mathematical sense, no cost at all; infinity minus anything is still infinity. You aren't giving up anything. You still have eternity in front of you, what are you sacrificing exactly?

[@samueljoseph9710]

Unknown Being All the glory He was deserving of was replaced with the judgement/punishment (Hell) of all those who could and would believe because of Him. Adding in the fact that the Son which existed eternally with the Father, was separated from Him. Maybe that doesn’t seem like a big deal to us relationally because of our experience, but if you think about it, it’s incomprehensible.

[@doug196]

It just doesn't make sense on any level. Doug Stanhope joked that's its the equivalent to saying, "I'll hit my foot with a hammer for your mortgage." As a Christian you think it makes sense because you were programmed to think it makes sense from birth.

[@thomasamathew4058]

@@doug196 Think of a boy told by his parents that he will be taken to a hospital for an operation , the boy won't feel much heaviness in heart because he doesn't know the pain. But if you told the exact same thing to a 50 year old his heart would be heavy because he knows the pain that is to come. Now think of an all knowing God that knows the pain not like our memory of the pain but knows the pain in depth. So Jesus Christ as a perfect human and an all knowing God knows the pain as much as a man would know but knows it eternally...That means who knew the pain and still knows the pain as a human would know it. That is why in Revelation you see the Lamb of God "injured" or "cut". Another thing is that the pain experienced by Christ was not the pain inflicted by the soldiers but what Christ went through in the darkness , which no one knows what happened . In that darkness Christ screamed in pain... That is how I view the pain experienced by the Lord on the cross

[@rofl22rofl22]

@@samueljoseph9710 "All the glory He was deserving of was replaced with the judgement/punishment (Hell) of all those who could and would believe because of Him." I'm sorry, I don't get this? "Adding in the fact that the Son which existed eternally with the Father, was separated from Him." Separated how exactly? Jesus ascended and is "sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven". (Matthew 26:64) So we're looking at a temporary separation, and being separated from god for 30-something years while still enjoying eternity in heaven right after still isn't a sacrifice at all. 30 years is a long time only if your life-span is around 70 years. But that's *nothing* to god. Literally. "but if you think about it, it’s incomprehensible." It seems incromprehensible to me too. I still don't get it.

[@aircooled356]

Whenever you give up something you don't want to give up, that is considered a sacrifice. Just think about whenever you've wanted to get in shape or people that go to college, they give up time to study, that is a sacrifice. Jesus gave up his position in Heaven for 33 years to become one of us, and suffered a horrible death, one that did not belong to him and a punishment he was not guilty of, that in itself is a sacrifice.

[@davec-1378]

Way to NOT answer the “why” part of Matt’s question This guy was obviously trained to merely repeat the claim instead of answering a question about the claim

[@mondaye03]

Matt crucified this guy.

[@rogerandjoan4329]

Hahaha, yeah but he’ll be back to resurrect his nonsense another day.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

No not really he just misrepresented the Trinity.

[@rogerandjoan4329]

@@pleaseenteraname1103 That’s difficult to say since the church often says the trinity is a mystery. What did Matt say about it that you disagree with?

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@rogerandjoan4329 The whole himself to himself, that implies he doesn’t understand it. I think when churches say it’s a mystery, they are talking about why the trinity is the way it is, and what churches are you referring to.

[@jesperjee]

@@pleaseenteraname1103 So god taking human form was NOT him splitting off into two but rather ”him” creating another god. See, we do understand the trinity. Like the bible it’s a simple story made by and for simple people.

[@49perfectss]

Matt was easily able to show this guy's arguments are all based on fallacies lol. Great job Matt!

[@kaizze8777]

fallacies or not, just cos someone explains aspects of ANYTHING not just religious views badly, does that mean its false? Bullying someone into a corner by using sly remarks doesn't forward anything other than showing to the audience that you're intellectually dishonest. but what do I know. I'm "only" a christian.

[@49perfectss]

@@kaizze8777 it does not mean they are necessarily wrong. It means they can't be right how the argument is presented. Also logic is not bullying or sly. It's just logic. Not Matt's fault the other guy didn't have it on his side. Or the fault of atheists

[@ffsno9078]

@@kaizze8777 that's called being a sore loser.

[@Julian0101]

​@@kaizze8777 The fact that simple logic can corner an apologist into a corner is proof enough that there is something wrong with whatever they are presenting.Sure, you can call that bullying or intellectually dishonest, we just call it exposing the flaws in his reasoning. But what do you know, you are only another victim of christianity.

[@Joshua-dc1bs]

@@kaizze8777 well, DO you believe that the s.ell of burning blood and flesh pleases the nostrils of YHWH?

[@davidr1431]

End with the words, "that's the story". Precisely.

[@alexhetherington8028]

Ha ha ha yeah too right.

[@MrNateSPF]

“Who actually believes that!? [No, no. We believe what you said but use different words that make it sound less silly, still silly but less.]”

[@MrNateSPF]

@@freestylegary Is this G-man? When you say stupid stuff it just makes you look stupid.

[@MrNateSPF]

@@freestylegary Oh G-man, you should have given up long ago. Even theists laugh at you.

[@MrNateSPF]

@@freestylegary Oh G-man, everyone who isn't an idiot thinks of you as a laughing stock.

[@freestylegary]

@@MrNateSPF Oh, all your 3 arguments are on point to the main subject and are irrefutable. I commend you. Your vocabulary consisting of 'stupid, laugh and idiot' is so large, they provide so much wisdom and clarity. No one has ever argued as intelligently as you have.

[@MrNateSPF]

@@freestylegary I haven't made any arguments, just letting you know as an FYI people think of you as a clown. I do feel sorry for you, but the comic relief is just too funny and you do it to yourself. The only reason people still talk to you is to laugh at you, though even with this knowledge you'll still passive aggressive your way to the butt of the joke.

[@anticipayo]

And of course, every single claim this priest made is unfalsifiable

[@scotstralian9147]

How can Christians believe this stuff? If God is real he is literally hiding from us, as our understanding of the world grows we are never pointed in the direction on a creator so the more we investigate the further we are pushed from these beliefs. Is he doing it on purpose?

[@EricSmyth2Christ]

God is very Weird and lightweight creepy (Matthew 10 30), but I love Him to death. He is also a Hopeless Romantic.

[@EricSmyth2Christ]

@TrainerblueTube He's not hopeless at finding love, He is a "Hopeless Romantic"

[@EricSmyth2Christ]

@TrainerblueTube The Bible doesn't call him that, but that's what he is imo Did you look up what "Hopeless Romantic " meant?

[@gladiator8325]

what you said almost reached the peak of insanity and ignorance. everything and I mean everything your eyes can see your nose can smell or your hands can touch is evidence of a creator. God is not hiding fromyou, you are separated from him, and there’s only one way to be reconciled to him. and any pathetic attempt an atheist utilizes in their arrogance to approach God is rejected by him because there’s only one way to him and that is through faith in Christ and his sacrifice he made in your behalf. so if you don’t like that or believe that that’s fine it’s your choice but don’t mock billions of others who have come into a relationship with God through Christ because you’re too arrogant and ignorant and foolish to do so yourself. talking to an atheist is like trying to prove light exists to a blind man. until his eyes are opened he’ll just deny deny deny.

[@gladiator8325]

Tina Bush why is that tina? does the truth cut that deep? the way atheists talk about God is reprehensible and designed to provoke a negative response. these anti-god, anti-christian, anti-logic people are willfully ignorant and there is no excuse. If they think God is going to turn a blind eye to their ignorance and mocking they are sorely mistaken. They mock what a christian holds most dear, the wonderful love of God that influenced Him to take on flesh to provide the sacrificial substitute for the penalty all men owe. We don’t just believe in God, we know Him and the behaviors of these atheists is what is extreme, delusional, and offensive and they enjoy it because they are of their father the devil and they do what their father does. I just wanted to make myself clear when they stand before our true and living God they will have no excuse.

[@lestertjester4140]

By the end he confirmed everything that Matt was saying

[@gordonculp8364]

He made no distinctions between jesus and God. Glenn did that

[@robertvirnig638]

@@gordonculp8364 According to Christians, nobody really dies, they just go from an Earthly existence to one in Heaven. This is a favorable transition. The fact that Jesus went through this process and did a victory tour on Earth before going back to heaven in no way constitutes a sacrifice. It was exactly as Matt said, a bad weekend. The relationship or oneness between Jesus and the other components of God is irrelevant.

[@nagolhayze9366]

@@robertvirnig638 With respect you’ve missed the central point of a God who would give up part of himself for us, for you, for me ... through a sacrificial death. The death of death in the death and resurrection of Christ.

[@robertvirnig638]

@@nagolhayze9366 Oh I understand what the story of the resurrection is supposed to mean, been hearing it since I was a child. I just reject the idea that it was a sacrifice. Now if a god died for us and stayed dead, that would be an actual sacrifice.

[@nagolhayze9366]

@@robertvirnig638 Thank you for your reply Robert. With respect if God died for us and stayed dead that would merely be a temporal sacrifice. This was a very different kind of sacrifice, it actually involved the resurrection of Christ, the ultimate defeat of death and the ultimate victory over sin, through a giving love, to us, and for us.

[@Sluj666]

I think the Trinity has made it really tough for Christians and apologists to defend their position. I think you have to have extra intellectual wit and be skilled in mental gymnastics or maybe even mental Olympics to defend the trinity with ease. The whole idea of God being three persons in one defies logic.

[@krisaaron5771]

“You actually believe that!” So does everyone who believes the bible, Glen. That's exactly what the bible says, word for word, tap-dancing interpretations aside. Squirm and wriggle all you want, but the gospels have hung you out to dry.

[@sticks1990]

Not seeing anything here that substantially refutes god sacrificing itself to itself for problems it created. It’s so silly it’s almost like it was made up ! Woooooow!

[@krisaaron5771]

@Caratacus A lot of used car salesmen wish they had customers as gullible as you. But if it makes you happy and brings you comfort, all I ask is that you stay out of my life and stop voting your beliefs.

[@krisaaron5771]

@Caratacus Or provide evidence that your beliefs aren't delusions and hallucinations. BTW, you weren't waiting for JFK and JFK Jr. to come walking up last week, were you?

[@krisaaron5771]

@Caratacus "Scientifically derived" means the evidence can be reproduced or results duplicated under similar conditions. Isn't it time "god" impregnated another young Jewish girl and then had her daughter killed and brought back to life? And we could use 10 more commandments engraved on stone tablets -- maybe something about protecting the Earth, and dial down the self-aggrandizing orders ("Thou shalt have no other gods...") WERE there other gods? Were they an improvement over the arrogant egotistical thug you claim is running the show now? The last thing our species needs is more Aesop's Fables with a halo stuck on 'em.

[@krisaaron5771]

@Caratacus Already did.

[@chrismathis4162]

I love the mental gymnastics of the trinity. LOL

[@pilsung26]

@@Jonathan-si2nd Christians are not inherently dumb. The story is a stretch to be fair. With childhood indoctrination and cultural pressure, we can expect folks can hold onto ridiculous narratives.

[@dstinnettusa]

No gymnastics needed

[@20july1944]

@@pilsung26 So are you an atheist?

[@alexamaya3208]

@@pilsung26 ridiculous narratives because you haven’t seen them for yourself?

[@piage84]

@@alexamaya3208 sure, you saw the Trinity now. Tell us more

[@teresamcmud2605]

Who actually believes that? Well anyone who believes in the Trinity nonsense.

[@rpietsch9]

And how much of a sacrifice is it really when you know you're just going to rise again in 3 days?

[@charlesmadison1384]

Let us now do the math. From Friday night to Saturday night equals one day. From Saturday night to around sunrise on Sunday morning is half a day. I calculate a day & a half ... not 3 days (as prophesied to be 3 days & 3 nights per the Jonah & the great fish tale).

[@sledzeppelin]

How many millions of humans have suffered far, far worse and for far longer than Jesus?

[@dorarie3167]

The convoluted rationale for a non-sacrifice by and of a god that cannot die, and with no actual evidence that Jesus was divine or resurrected makes it all hard to take seriously.

[@TheWorldTeacher]

Dor Arie What’s your explanation for life?

[@BlGGESTBROTHER]

@@TheWorldTeacher What the hell does that have to do with his comment?

[@devriesdan4591]

No actual evidence? What would you consider evidence?

[@babayaga9570]

What would you consider evidence?

[@TheWorldTeacher]

Big Brother PMS are the initials for “Premenstrual Syndrome”, which every woman (except, perhaps, Mama Maria) has at LEAST once a month, when she cannot control her moods and emotions. And it seems from your impetuous and DISRESPECTFUL response that you are experiencing some kind of premenstrual affliction, Slave?

[@t.dmytryshyn2615]

Scrivener is absolutely right, that's the story, and that's just what religion is a story. Complete fiction.

[@MK-dx8mt]

This really is "unbelievable"! When I first watched the whole debate, this part I watched repeatedly, simply because Matt got him on that one. Be it Glenn from Australia, or John Lennox from Britain, or someone else from another part of the world, it is unbelievably hard to defend this type of nonsense where you don't even know for sure whether Jesus was God or the son or both... Whether they were one or just united... It's ridiculous. Similar things are found in other religions and people keep defending that nonsense too. In the end, it's just about belief, not reason. They believe it just because, not because it can be rationalized...

[@davidr1431]

Also, Matt kindly let him off as well. He had him in a choke hold and let him of when he started the blood magic thing.

[@xmillion1704]

Are they claiming some Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne type of thing here?

[@maxspringer01]

@M K - I'm a Christian and I cringed throughout this entire video.....probably the worst one I've ever seen. I do have to say that "the Trinity" is the most glaring concept to me that most Christians defend to the death that........just makes no sense at all. I don't see it in the Bible. Christians claim God created this ordered, rational, logical world.....and yet somehow the creator of that world is himself completely illogical......it makes no sense to me. If you remove the Trinity and just say that you've got God the Father who is a righteous judge and determines the punishment for our sin, and who yet loves us and doesn't want anyone to perish, so he sent His Son to die for us......you can still choose not to accept that as true or false, but at least it makes basic logical grammatical coherent sense. The "God the Son" and "God our brother" (that's a new one for me) and "God is one yet three" are simply not in the Bible. "The Son of God" is in the Bible, but "God the Son" certainly isn't. It's frustrating because I honestly think the strange Trinity doctrine turns away a lot of people who rightfully can't accept such an illogical concept.

[@thetroof5525]

@@maxspringer01 Max, please read Genisis 1:1 and 1:2. ¹In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ²And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Now, the word "and" is the equivalent of saying "plus". So, each article following the word "and" is in addition to what preceded. So God created the heavens and the earth AND/PLUS/IN ADDITION to God creating the heavens and the earth, the Spirit of God (notice in your bible that "Spirit of God" is capitalized) moved upon the face of the waters. The first two verses in the Bible already reveal two of the divine persons. Not complicated. Read John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him. Here is the context: ¹⁶ And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Max, dont be confused. God, as prophesied in the Old Testament, by His sovereign power made Mary pregnant. That pregnancy was a miracle. There was no seed planted in Mary, yet she gave birth to a man. That man was the son of man (a human), and the Son of God (God). Yes, the Father was greater than Jesus (when Jesus was here with us and until His ascension) because Jesus emptied Himself of his divinity and became the humble servant. As prophesied in the Old Testament. The revelation of the Trinitarian nature of God comes directly from what we read in the Bible and is unmistakable. I could go on and tell you that when Genesis 1:1 is read in its original Hebrew, there is a clear and unmistakable prophesy given ABOUT THE SON OF GOD. Right there in the very first words of the Bible. Max, please grow in your faith and dont let discouragement cause you to doubt. God bless you bud.

[@jaclo3112]

@@thetroof5525 so what your saying and confiming by regurgitation of verses from your mythological screeds is that you have multiple gods and are a polytheist. Ok.

[@InWhoseOpinion]

God sacrificed himself to himself to save us (his creation) from sin and Hell, which He himself created. I love it when you ask a Christian if God could have just forgiven sin, and they say "no because the price of sin had to be payed ". They're saying that God couldn't do this, or had to do that. They, humans, are saying what God had to do to deal with sin. The arrogance. If God is all powerful, he could just Thanos Snap sin out of existence.

[@masongalioth4110]

Listen Matt, it took a long time for Jesus to level up high enough to chose the subclass Blood Mage. Only Punk Biatches choose Spirit healer. And it was a Hell of a weekend. Literally.

[@majestic-domination]

Ahh, that makes sense! So Jesus was actually grinding this whole time!

[@talitek]

"God took responsibility for his handiwork and it was his death that paid for sin" soooo he sacrificed himself to himself to pay for the breaking of rules he created himself? He's literally going against what he said at the beginning of the video. This man makes no sense. Good on Matt for being so patient with these people.

[@johnnydeep9069]

Most atheist have such a poor understanding of the Bible.

[@utah133]

I love hearing a trinitarian try to explain that can of worms!😂😂😂

[@tedgrant2]

The weirdest idea in religion is sacrifice. In fact, Christianity is completely dependent on the idea. It originated in agriculture where some crops or animals are sacrificed in order to save the remainder. If a goat farmer is pestered by wild animals who break in the stockade to take away one animal (which results in all the goats escaping), then it's best to tie one goat outside (The scapegoat). The local witch doctor thought that the same idea might keep the nasty gods happy, by sacrificing animals ritually, thereby, hopefully saving the humans from divine retribution. The Bible makes this clear in Leviticus, where the god of Israel is supposedly pleased by the sweet savour of meat cooking on the altar. Much later, when the followers of Jesus were puzzled by the death of their supposed saviour, they had the idea that perhaps his death was a sacrifice to take away the sins of the world ! He died for us. Magic.

[@ElYeyo1989]

Christian: If I can confuse Matt with a whole lotta nothing, I win! “No no! God the son is not God! It’s the trinity. God and the son are one, but not the same! They’re united. I’m right, next point.”

[@brundlefly204]

Atheist: i don't understand it so it can't be right 😂

[@bss0815]

@@brundlefly204 then offer a better explanation than the apologist from the video. Because a well educated apologist failed miserably explaining it.

[@brundlefly204]

@@bss0815 educate yourself plenty of resources online. If you are being honest you could have googled it 1 year ago

[@bss0815]

@@brundlefly204 then provide the resources, or are you expecting us to find that the trinity is a Babilonian influence on jewish religion? Because google says that.

[@majestic-domination]

@@brundlefly204 Because clearly Google provides us with one consistent answer, right? I've Googled and visited multiple sites, and everyone seems to have their own subjective interpretation of the trinity. So just the fact that you are here saying the silly non-sense that you just said, means that you are a dumbass. To redeem yourself, provide us with the correct explanation of the trinity.

[@cheicknacamara651]

It’s really nonsensical

[@20july1944]

Are you an atheist?

[@nonneponne]

@@20july1944 Are you a deist?

[@20july1944]

@@nonneponne No, I'm a Christian.

[@tmv3876]

@@20july1944 facepalm

[@20july1944]

@@tmv3876 Are you an atheist?

[@PuntoCoralARG]

Glen Scrivener never answers the questions, he just keeps inventing things up to picture the story in a nice way... even the story he tells at the end is horrible, god sent his son to die. Couldnt god (supposedly allmighty) come up with another system??

[@ooooooppppp11]

Do you think people need to pay a price when they do something wrong?

[@PuntoCoralARG]

@@ooooooppppp11 What does this have to do with my original comment? The god described in that book is horrible and a moral thug regardless of my opinion. And im not sure what you mean by "paying a price", but no, i dont think they have to "pay a price", i think people should apologize and make amends for what they did, do everything in their power to repair the damage. On the other hand I certainly don't think than praying or asking to a god (that we dont even know if it exists) for forgiveness is gonna make anything better...

[@ooooooppppp11]

@@PuntoCoralARG how is the God of the Bible "horrible and a moral thug"

[@gy5240]

Glen is just giving context of the meaning of the sacrifice instead of responding to silly questions. If there was a better way then God would have done it. It's a weird question to ask. If God really exists there is no way we would be in a position to judge what is the better way. Humans would be incapable of understanding what God was up to.

[@dustinellerbe4125]

@@gy5240 we have no examples of a God. Only Greek mythology that's rewritten to control the masses. We all fell for it. Some of us research to find out where it came from and who wrote it. Others simply take it literally. Paul tells you not to take the letter literally. Doing so kills. More division has been caused by the book than anything else in this world. Even believers can't agree. Division.

[@christinehoward3448]

Matt helped me to cross over,not even to mention reading the Bible that was enough unto itself but Matt thanks🤣😂😄😘🤗

[@BiffTanner]

Dillahunty is deceived by the devil and being used by the devil. All he did was bring you further into deception.

[@jjevans1693]

@@BiffTanner lol lol grow up and stop believing in invisible supernatural beings. You're holding back humanity.

[@AussieNaturalist]

If Gods death “paid for sin”, as he claims, why then do we have to believe a story that has no good evidence to support it, so that we can be “saved” by Jesus because are all born sinners.... The only way one can try to make sense of it is if one chooses to ignore all the inconsistencies and contradictions.

[@JamesAsp]

What inconsistencies and contradictions? Most assumed contradictions I seen made by unbelievers are not real contradictions.

[@AussieNaturalist]

@@JamesAsp, There is no simple answer to that question, it all depends on the interpretation that one accepts as a Christian; if you're a fundamentalist, then you would rely on apologetics a lot and believe there are no contradictions. If you're a progressive Christian, then you would not need apologetics anywhere near as much becasue you don't think the whole thing is "true", so you don't need to try and defend as many contradictory claims, and most likely think that those contradictions as just allegories, poems, human error, etc... As an atheist I don't need apologetics at all becasue I don't accept anything to be 'true' until it has been demonstrated as such, and even then, I'm always open to new info. Christian apologetics is the discipline of making up excuses, absent any demonstrable validation, for why a claim or story in the Bible is contradicted by known reality, or by its self, in order to perpetuate the unjustified claims and beliefs. Oh, and if you claim that there are NO contradictions at all in the Bible, then you seem to be at odds with most Christian scholars.

[@JamesAsp]

@@AussieNaturalist You wrote: "Christian apologetics is the discipline of making up excuses, absent any demonstrable validation, for why a claim or story in the Bible is contradicted by known reality, or by its self, in order to perpetuate the unjustified claims and beliefs." Lol, that is what I call mumbo jumbo So what contradictions are these scholars you refer to talking about?

[@colinmarkus1408]

If God's death paid for sin, why is there still sin?

[@jackdaniels9179]

@@JamesAsp is God just or merciful?

[@Beemernow]

The amount of tap dancing this Glen guy is doing is beyond comical...smdh

[@glennward5898]

It doesn't compare to the amount of strawmaning Matt does. He makes me laugh.

[@Beemernow]

@@glennward5898 well, why don't you call in and set him straight?! If are going to, which I highly doubt, please post when you are in advance so we can all watch you get handled for a laugh 😆

[@glennward5898]

@@Beemernow Why so he can strawman me as well? Any time Matt gets pinned he cuts off the caller. A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". Matt whole take on blood sacrifice is a strawman and is why Glen is laughing at him. Then is answered and Matt goes down the his trinity strawman. Water can be three different forms, solid, liquid and vapour. Yet doesn't know that. So he is either stupid or dishonest. I wouldn't say Matt is a stupid man. Then makes a truth claim that there is no afterlife. Yet since modern era there have been 30,000,000 cases of afterlife experiences. 90% have similar experiences. There are 10,000's of extraordinary cases of people knowing things they could not have known otherwise. Talk to anyone who has worked in an emergency in a hospital and they will tell you there is an afterlife. When is Matt not strawmaning?

[@Beemernow]

@@glennward5898 so that's a no then as far as you calling in?? Lol, you can write a diatribe here as to your reasoning, but failing to confront him with YOUR argument just makes you appear to be a coward 🤣

[@Beemernow]

@@glennward5898 and it could be a zillion cases of the same experience and it wouldn't make it true....again, putting down another man's argument without confronting him yourself makes you a coward...lol

[@michaelcrawford4940]

Ever notice how they never let Matt hold a mic in these debates? If they did everything he said would end in a thud

[@pollypockets508]

None of them are holding a mic

[@richtomlinson7090]

Matt made the most sense of all, and he was respectful of the story, because that's what it is. The Bible isn't a literal history book or science journal.

[@alexshevchenko7568]

"The father's in the son, the son is in the father". I got it! They were siamese twins!

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

Alex Shevchenko or they'd been working their way through the Kama Sutra.

[@1MDA]

The son is God The father is God The holy spirit is God The son is not the father nor the spirit The father is not the son nor the spirit The spirit is not the son nor the father. Its not contradictory, is just misterius, metaphysics is beyond quantum physics Dont be childish

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

Alexandre Daniel so God sacrificed God after God decided that this was the way it had to be. But the God that was sacrificed was OK and got to be God again.

[@alexshevchenko7568]

@@1MDA Well, KUDOS to you. Eat some God and drink some God.

[@MrKit9]

@@1MDA LMAO. Do you expect to be taken seriously.

[@RazorbackPT]

As an atheist of course I think Matt's take is 100% on point and makes Glen's views look ridiculous and indefensible. But then a Christian will think Matt is being foolish and not making any sense. This is a Christian channel after all and they uploaded this clip so I can only assume they are proud of how this interaction went down. This channel helped me see that there are actually very thoughtful religious people out there that understand epistemology and the rules of logical reasoning. But what does that say about the power of dialogue to make rational people move towards the truth when they keep having these interactions but never seem to evolve their views? Justin, in particular, is a mystery to me because I've seen him be exposed to the best arguments against his views over and over by extremely smart people, and he has not moved an inch on his views. Of course, there's that famous quote ""It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." There I would substitute salary with "whole way of life."

[@willrosch3627]

RazorbackPT The sane thing could easily be applied to Matt and his position. The more I have seen Matt debate the more I have seen if appear out of his depth and still remains steadfast in his belief. Matt ironically also makes money off of his atheism.

[@doug196]

Great point about Justin. I've been amazed by that for years. He knows ALL the arguments. I can't decide if he's locked by his lively hood or if his brain partition is just too impenetrable.

[@PuntoCoralARG]

@@willrosch3627 If you wanna do activism full time you have to gain some money. And he makes a small amount (compared to an average salary), nothing compared to the billions christian pastors make...

[@RazorbackPT]

@@willrosch3627 I agree that Matt is also in a somewhat compromised position of having a higher price to pay for publicly changing his views. Do you also share this disconcerting realization that maybe dialogue is completely ineffective as a means for people to reach the truth? Or is it only in these special cases where people have invested interests in not changing their views that dialogue is fruitless?

[@willrosch3627]

PuntoCoral The average salary for a Pastor in the United States is between 30-40k a year. Not anywhere near billions.

[@JCSoto80]

I love how christians explain the trinity... to fit their argument... "Jesus is god"... "so he sent himself to sacrifice to please himself?"... "no... he sent his son😏"

[@unitewithch]

no, its that the trinity is a complicated doctrine, mostly because of the confusion brought on by semantic renderings of language...Example union, or unity can be described as a value of quantity of 1, however unity or union can also be described as being agreement between 3 separate and distinct entities or bodies (i.e. 3 branches of US govt, having distinct functions all in union under 1 govt)....The doctrine of the trinity being the latter. God the father, son, and holy spirit operate as 3 separate entities which have different functions, however they are unified in respect to their divine attributes omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresent (All coequal, co-eternal in power and glory) and united in essence (relationship). God the father (role/function)sent his son (role/function) as God in man form,to be a sacrifice for mankind.... And yes the work of God the son, pleased the father. After the son was lifted up, then the helper known as the Holy Spirit (role/function) was sent to indwell believers, so they can be in union with God while being alive on earth....All coequal, co-eternal

[@jethrotool4828]

unitewithchrist 🙄😳🤦‍♂️

[@consciousgentile5141]

There is no damn trinity, and christianity is based on a flagrant lie.

[@bobyoung3857]

Why would it need to be a teinity anyway. It makes no sense. If Jesus was God in the flesh why did he have to impregnate someone. He could just come down as a man already full grown like he did many times before. I think the reason for all of the confusing doctrine is to pacify the different followings. In order to line up with hebrew scripture they needed a baby birth. To negat the multiple gods conundrums you have to say both are the same guy. In order to dispute the earlier gospels allusions to Jesus being empowered by the holy spirit and diffusing doubts of his godhood the spirit has to be part of the god head. One theory is that there were competing schools of christianity and this was a way of uniting them.

[@secondrule]

@@unitewithch What? The 3 branches of government are THREE different parts; NOT even close to being three in one... So you are saying god, son, and holy spirit are THREE different entities? The trinity should have been thrown out centuries ago, but they had to get around the whole: Shoot, we have god, the son, and the holy spirit, but there can ONLY be one god...what to do? What to do????????? Oh Trinity. The faithful will be too stupid to question it. And they are.

[@calvinlong1265]

This guy knows what Matt is actually saying, he's just trying to find some way to make himself look less foolish. . . he failed 😂

[@user-md3is4dq2d]

And you don't show the rebuttal, this is propaganda. When people look for answers they may come to this video, and simply accept the ending statement, because they didn't get to see the rebuttal

[@c.a.t.732]

Mr. Scrivener is stuck in the impossible situation of trying to explain how the Trinity isn't, by it's very nature, polytheism. I almost feel sorry for him.

[@richyburnett]

Go home and light a candle. Flame, light and warmth . Three that are one. All different, but altogether. Trinity. Now you know the real reason Christians light candles in church.

[@c.a.t.732]

@@richyburnett The flame creates light and warmth... they are not "one".

[@troywright359]

@@c.a.t.732 a triangle has three points. All three points are of equal importance. Or you have the family analogy. If there are three Jones brothers, which one is more Jones than the others?

[@c.a.t.732]

@@troywright359 I couldn't say which Jones brother is more important than the others. But I can say that they aren't one entity.

[@troywright359]

@@c.a.t.732 they are one family, each one as much as Jones as the other. I don't know any Christian who says Jesus is literally exactly the same 'person' as the father

[@waynemills206]

Personally, if I knew I was the son of god, how much of a sacrifice would it be? What was he giving up? No wife, no kids, no more work in carpentry. It sounds like a psychopath who lights his own house on fire, rushes around saving his family and then calling himself a savior. Further, women in childbirth likely experience as much pain as Jesus did on the cross and they often endure that willingly numerous times without having delusions of grandeur. The entire story is, at face value is an exceedingly tiresome joke.

[@lookatmepleasesir]

being tortured and crucified would be way more agonizing and traumatic then giving birth

[@fallenhuman2081]

I somewhat understand what you are saying, but I also think you completely misunderstand Jesus, who he is, and exactly what he did.

[@waynemills206]

@@lookatmepleasesir And what is to be said about those who have endured more pain and torture since. No stories, no worship, no memory, no help, no sense. Vicarious redemption is little more than scapegoating responsibility to reality and a religious man at that time would have made that connection in times of social persecution. Further, religious prophets would have clearly discerned the benefits of separating the best parts of the human condition to gods while scapegoating the ills to ignorance. A disgusting, perverse and sado-masochist scheme by any measure.

[@waynemills206]

@@fallenhuman2081 I understand his people people were being persecuted and was humanly motivated to offer consolation. I understand he was writing cheques for redemption and eternal salvation on an account that was never confirmed to have the funds. I understand vicarious redemption is a form of scapegoating responsibility within the scope of ignorance of the times. I understand coveting the best of the human condition to gods, while retaining the ills is a form of sado-masochism that perpetuates the scapegoating. Understanding reality is not a sin, it is the essence of enlightenment.

[@fallenhuman2081]

@@waynemills206 Oh, my mistake I see, you don't actually believe Jesus existed do you? Wow that's quite hilarious. You know, very few people can deny his existence; the evidence is too strong. Everything you said would make perfect sense in any other context; however, in this context, you started with the assumption that Jesus wasn't who he claimed to be. He's just some 'wacko' right? Well then you certainly would have been one of the people that crucified him; never considering that what he was saying might be true. He healed the sick, raised the dead and people are not convinced because their toxic presuppositions are too overwhelmingly strong to let them think otherwise. What I'm trying to say is, it's too easy to just say, "Jesus was a nobody, now we can move on."

[@walterwanderley383]

Glen is an Olympic-level mental gymnast. It would be amazing if it weren't so sad.

[@herculiessonofzeus8878]

Well Matt, you are wrong. As an atheist, i would call people rising from a grave zombies :P

[@PhysiKarlz]

How you, the video editor, don't feel some amount of embarrassment when you think this excerpt from Scrivener is deserving applause, is unbelievable.

[@missusgumby]

If this had been on one of Matt's shows, he would have hung up on him for refusing to answer the question(s). And delivered a reasoned 5 minute monologue of why Scrivener was talking nonsense.

[@drawn2myattention641]

The more Glen goes over it, the sillier it sounds. How did our culture become captivated by this ineffable nonsense? I'm covered with shame.

[@troywright359]

You're ashamed that your culture has a history in religion, like practically every culture in the world?

[@drawn2myattention641]

@@troywright359 Yes. And now it’s time to put away childish things.

[@amac9044]

It always gives me a good chuckle listening to theists try to explain the trinity as if it's ressonable or even the least bit coherent....😂😂

[@DevonPhoenix]

they basically voted on that to try to make their religion fit into the previous unrelated scripture

[@ateoforever7434]

Scrivener ended the conversation with..." and that's the story ".....yes, a fantasy story......

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

I like the Bible, I think it's un- believable

[@MrDigztheswagking]

Not a good story

[@roccocarlino067]

Christ was never meant to be God, it was those who wrote the New Testament over-reached his status. Christ was a self-described Prophet, but he didn’t have any control over what was written about himself and his ministry. We simply do not know what Jesus Christ said because we weren't there, and nor was it recorded by non-human “neutral” means. So take it with a grain of salt.

[@Hoptacopter]

To paraphrase C. Hitchens, Scrivener is “still left holding an empty sack.”.

[@glennward5898]

And your still looking at an empty tomb. Any more strawman arguments.

[@cmhardin37]

@@glennward5898 I don't think you know what a straw man is.

[@glennward5898]

@@cmhardin37 A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". Matt whole take on blood sacrifice is a strawman and is why Glen is laughing at him. Then is answered and Matt goes down the his trinity strawman. Water can be three different forms, solid, liquid and vapour. Yet doesn't know that. So he is either stupid or dishonest. I wouldn't say Matt is a stupid man. Then makes a truth claim that there is no afterlife. Yet since modern era there have been 30,000,000 cases of afterlife experiences. 90% have similar experiences. There are 10,000's of extraordinary cases of people knowing things they could not have known otherwise. Talk to anyone who has worked in an emergency in a hospital and they will tell you there is an afterlife. When is Matt not strawmaning?

[@555nm6]

@@glennward5898 There is no straw man in demon possession, the atheist who witnessed several converted to Christianity in California after watching exorcisms, he is a physiatrist M.D. he wrote a book about if awhile back I trust in these events and Pascal's wager

[@glennward5898]

@@555nm6 I love Pascal's wager. One of my favorite quotes from him is, "There are only two kinds of people one can call reasonable: Those who serve God with all their heart because they know him, and those who seek him with all their heart because they do not know him." Unfortunately the atheists here do not seek him with all their hearts. Thus they can't even see any of Matt's straw man arguments, and can not be called reasonable. Yet I am reminded of Jesus's words, "I am the way, the truth and the life." All we can do is point them to the truth. When they seek that, they will find Jesus there waiting.

[@gregzade5202]

What a unbelievable story Glen. But we shouldn't expect anything else of that era, under the circumstances of that time. Forward to today we've come so far and know so much more, this should not be believed by any thinking person.

[@wild7goose]

Other than scientific advances that have given us ways to live longer (there's a lot to cover there)... How much different is human behavior? Do we still lie, cheat, steal, murder, fight to survive, slander, celebrate, dance, etc? Any discussion about God, morality, and metaphysics is essentially and discussion on truth. Is God real? The Bible even says that if Christ did not rise from the dead that Christians to be most pitied above all people because we live a deceived life. Any "thinking person" should seriously consider the implications on whether or not the claims of Christianity are true AND should seriously consider the implications on whether or not natural materialism is true. Because both have EXTREME results about how people should live in the reality we find ourselves. You say that the era that the story of Christ originates from is unbelievable simply because of the circumstances of that time. I pose my question to you again, how much different is human behavior now from then? We use cars instead of horse drawn carriages, still modes of transportation. We still use natural resources to make medicine (it's just gotten MUCH better, we still have schools, cultivate crops, hunt, etc. I pose this question because why should the age in which the claim of Christ's life, death, and resurrection have anything to do about whether or not it is real?

[@gregzade5202]

@@wild7goose I'm sorry to say, my position is not extreme. I don't say to you that if you do not believe in atheism, you'll go to hell. I do not induce blackmail or threats or any bribes are involved or do i make extraordinary claims that defy the laws of physics. We have come along way since the bronze age. Our moral landscape has evolved, for the better, specially in the last 200 years, we have advance as human beings, that once held to belief systems that does moral harms! We now know better so It is a big deal when millions of people believe in something that is not true, it warps the mind. World of difference between the position you hold and the position i hold. As for murder, lie, cheating, cancer, mental illness, religion, in this day and age gives no true deep understanding of human behaviour, it's observational that religion has no bearing on these topics, however science does. Until such evidence has been established that God is real, I think it's fair and reasonable of me to continue as if there is no such thing as a God or any other type of fairy tale you can think of and still continue with a moral, ethical life drawing from the knowledge of some philosophy and much of science. I encourage you too as well, much more wisdom and love can be sort after, than from 1 book which contradicts everything of science.

[@wild7goose]

@@gregzade5202 The extreme implications of natural materialism is that there is no foundation for rationality or objective morality. If natural materialism is true, if all we are is matter in motion, then all we are is highly evolved protoplasm that only respond to exterior stimuli. All we are, as Daniel Dennett has said, "are meat robots." An organized biological product that doesn't truly think. "In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” - Richard Dawkins. Notice how Dawkins says "nor any justice." If that's true, then morality through the lens of natural materialism is purely subjective and the human species is bound to nothing other than social contracts that hold no actual authority over us if we so choose to reject them. According to the leading voices of atheistic thought, and natural materialism, in their own words, those are the implications of that world view. They are extreme.

[@wild7goose]

@@gregzade5202 Also, you made a comparison to whether or not the implications of Christianity to Natural Materialism are extreme and I didn't address Christianity in my previous reply; sorry about that. Yes, the implications of Christianity if true are in a sense, extreme. God, who according to the orthodox teachings of the Bible is holy and mankind is sinful. God says that the wages of sin are death and that all of mankind is sinful. Therefore, all of mankind will face the righteous judgement of the creator of the universe. How can we be saved from such judgement? Through faith in the perfect life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; believing that he is the son of God and that his sacrifice is sufficient to save. If we continue to live in such a way that shows a clear rejection of God and his grace, the we will rightfully be judged. In a sense, to the world, that is extreme. I'm not here, commenting and replying, to tell you to repent and believe. If you do, then praise God. I was commenting and replying to challenge people to think about their world view, the implications of it, and to consider Christianity in the same way. Because if one is true, then both carry implications for how mankind lives within time, space, and matter.

[@gregzade5202]

@@wild7goose I fail to see you point, by your assertion that because i do not believe in a invisible entity therefore my world view has no foundation for rationality or objective morality. Firstly, not sure if you're aware how insulting it sounds, secondly, read any great greek philosopher. Very deep understanding on these topics. You do not require a invisible entity to give you foundation for rationality or objective morality. Our discussion can be based without calling upon god to seek foundation moral objective truth together. What you have just manage to do is describe the natural world we live in, objectively. That is what we observe, backed by observation and evidence drawing from the tools of science. this world can be extremely cruel and also extremely beautiful. Now you can reject the observation we make and reject the tools of science which contradict religion, by all mean. And instead warp the mind with personal truth and reject objective truth. However i can't help feel that you are genuinely doing a disservice to enriching yourself with reality.

[@spencerferrier3857]

And it still has no independent evidence to support that story.

[@drownoble]

Glen was dodging questions better than Neo dodges bullets.

[@glennward5898]

I thought he was a flamethrower in Matts field of strawmen.

[@drownoble]

@@glennward5898 Matt was strawmanning? I think we didn't watch the same video. Everything Matt asked Glen, he deflected. Didn't get a single straight answer. If you feel Matt did strawman something, then Glen didn't pick up on it. Which would show Glen is outmatched in this debate as well.

[@glennward5898]

@@drownoble A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". Matt whole take on blood sacrifice is a strawman and is why Glen is laughing at him. Then is answered and Matt goes down the his trinity strawman. Water can be three different forms, solid, liquid and vapour. Yet doesn't know that. So he is either stupid or dishonest. I wouldn't say Matt is a stupid man. Then makes a truth claim that there is no afterlife. Yet since modern era there have been 30,000,000 cases of afterlife experiences. 90% have similar experiences. There are 10,000's of extraordinary cases of people knowing things they could not have known otherwise. Talk to anyone who has worked in an emergency in a hospital and they will tell you there is an afterlife. When is Matt not strawmaning?

[@drownoble]

@@glennward5898 Im aware of what a strawman arguement is. My point was that Matt wasn't strawmanning Glen. He asked Glen questions which Glen deflected. Matt did not say "this is your position and this is why it's wrong". He asked Glen "do you believe X is true?" and Glen would respond by saying "so you think Y is false?".

[@drownoble]

@@glennward5898 Incorrect. The blood sacrifice was not a strawman in the slightest. He did not misrepresent what a blood sacrifice is, he asked Glen about it. Jesus' sacrifice IS a blood sacrifice, just like all the other ones prior to Jesus. Abraham is the most well-known as an "almost" blood sacrifice. Yet Jephthah's was clearly one. To name a few. Your water analogy is flawed. Ice, steam and liquid water are still water they are just different energy states. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct entities according to the bible but are related to each other. Stating that the afterlife is real because of millions of people saying they had experience is the argument from popularity fallacy. The number of people who believe something to be true adds nothing to the Actual Truth of the claim. When out of body experiences are tested scientifically, they fail every time. Millions of people claim to be abducted by aliens... does that mean that aliens are actually here abducting people? No, it doesn't.

[@612Tiberius]

The nonsense that allegedly intelligent adult religious believers talk themselves into believing is true... what fools humans can often be.

[@willrosch3627]

612Tiberius Like non-life creating life?

[@CyeOutsider]

@@willrosch3627 That's where all the evidence points. Unlike the claims of the Bible.

[@jesserochon3103]

Or that your eyes are yet blind, and that you simply don't understand. Take the path of intellectual humility, not hubris. I don't know calculus. Yet I don't liken those who teach it to fools. Peace brother.

[@jesserochon3103]

There is absolutely no evidence that non-life can create life. None. None whatsoever. Or even worse... that 'nothing' at some point was able to create matter. Atheism is riddled with utter absurdities.

[@jesserochon3103]

Abiogenesis is a hypothesis, not a theory, and is supported by absolutely no evidence. None at all. Not one shred.

[@Simon-nv5zj]

im pretty sure if you have any sort of belief Christianity, then yeah, the whole god sacrificing himself to himself should be a foundation of that belief.

[@fencefirst2722]

Not if you're Unitarian

[@tchristian04]

read about the council of Nicea

[@jayd4ever]

one of the beliefs

[@zarwarrior]

Men and their ideas about how a god might think, acts and creates is beyond the best sci-fi writer/novelist ever.

[@sarco64]

That is why both of these men failed in their arguments. As someone once observed, "God created humanity in his own image, and we've been returning the favor ever since."

[@kronos01ful]

That is call myths. But christ is a an historical figure and he represented God accurately. This is why people follow him.

[@kronos01ful]

@@1NumeroUno theres no God ? All the evidence is there : Nature,morals,the laws of logic ,the life and death of jesus.

[@kronos01ful]

@@1NumeroUno we are in the year 2021 after hes death ,not a myth.

[@kronos01ful]

@@1NumeroUno Jesuschrist is not a myth, he is a historical figure thats why we are in the year 2021 after hes death. Simple ! . The bible is an amazing book . Its a complete guide to understand how we got here biologically ,explains the meaning and value of life and what happens after death.its a very well study book ,people get PhD in biblical studys ,from archeology to spiritual counseling.. why ? Because theres truth in that "bronze age " book. Hope one day you have the intellectual honesty to read it.

[@michman2]

The atheist point of view will always be the more rational one.

[@theautodidacticlayman]

Weird because no one is only rational. If atheism is only rational, it’s also incomplete.

[@stevefmelb]

Im just amazed how Matt can remain calm, when faced with a catalogue of nonsense mataphors. I really take exception that this man/god claims to have died/suicided (3 days) for the alledged 'sins' of my kids/grandkids etc