Did I Pay Too Much To Fix My Car?

Someone asked in / mechanicadvice if they had been "scammed" when they were charged a certain price to replace their alternator.
The comments were a dumpster fire.
Watch as two shop owners discuss whether the price was too much to fix this person's car or if the price was just right.
Schedule a demo with Shop-Ware today!
Click here: bit.ly/getshopware

[@BigDogDiagnostics]

A lot of people try to change things. And fail. Or try to change things that should be left alone. I think you guys will go far in your mission to change this industry for the better. Because there are many flaws. Your content is gold. And your messages are being heard all over. Congratulations and thank you! As a little guy trying to build my business from the ground up, into something big..I’m paying attention listening closely, and I appreciate you guys and all you very much.

[@ClaytheBMXer]

Exclusively centric calipers here too. There are certain vehicles with parking brake integrated calipers that they just leak on every time though. Ford freestyles and VWs. OE on those. Have had good luck with WAI alternators and starters so far when I can't get something like a Denso. No longer use Denso on Acadia/traverse/enclave after a rash of bad ones and hearing the number of returns the supplier had. Lots of DOA Boschs lately. There's really not much you can put full faith into anymore depending on car model.

[@ClaytheBMXer]

Oh yeah, used Remy until they got bought out, then had several comebacks and a car caught fire. Never again.

[@lucas-changingtheindustrypcast]

Yeah....a car catches fire because of your product....I ain't buying it again 😄

[@texasaggieproud]

New sub here and much respect to you guys. This was a great video. My perspective: Like many, I love to do my own work on my 3 cars. I enjoy it and it is truly a hobby. However, I also own a business and I understand that $800+ dollars for an alternator is really not bad considering all of the overhead and other things that you guys mentioned. It is a business, and a business is run on profit because we are all Capitalists. That is a good thing. Overall, people are morons and want everything to be free until it's whatever it is that THEY sell or benefit from financially. It's not about the cost of the part it is also the diagnostic which needs to be factored into the equation of the overall price along with the real estate overhead etc.

[@ajchiappetta8795]

Centric is what I use for my brake parts for rolls royce, Bentley and Maserati

[@scct82]

Isn't the belt overlap? Why charge to put the belt on? Any mounts have to be removed to replace the belt?

[@031stunna]

Napa-branded calipers suck I had to send back 9 06' Ford Ranger right front calipers on one vehicle. all had damaged seals on the Pistons. Really all auto part stores parts suck. I used to have confidence in the Kragen's/checkers parts before the O'Reilly's buy out and Centrix always been good for calipers since most of the time they're remand OE's and with the Centrix if you catch one that's not an oe casting it have it swapped out. All the auto parts stores parts suck with Napa for Japanese OE equivalent stuff the Ultrom/Ultra 8 parts are pretty fail proof. most of the locations won't offer them unless you know about them cuz they're not napa-branded. And I learned this from the oe's on the Collision side and then I learned this from Napa and some of the other reps that during the recession some of the first departments cut were quality control and it seems that they never came back and it's only worse since a lot of corporate mentality is ship it and we'll deal with it when it becomes a problem.

[@darkside6526]

"I don't know why people don't say this stuff about doctors and lawyers" it's because people know that to be a doctor or a lawyer you have to go through intense schooling and be very well educated to be successful. You don't have that with technicians. It's not required to be ASE certified to work on cars professionally. Until we start showing ourselves self respect and do away with the "you don't need to have certifications to be a mechanic" mentality things won't improve. Most shops, chain stores and independent, don't require you to maintain any certs to work on cars. The problem this creates is your customers end up just as educated as your techs and this creates distrust in the industry.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

No customer is as "educated" as our techs. That's absurd. And certification and licensing is required in several states as well as all of Canada. It hasn't solved anything. The point is that an MRI is an MRI, but because no one sees the bill, there are no subreddits with people asking, "did I get screwed on this MRI?" The problem is one of messaging, nothing more.

[@darkside6526]

@Auto Shop Owners Group I agree. I was speaking generally. Edit: I wasn't speaking about your customers and techs specifically. But I do think the technician field as a whole is poisoned by people who don't care to better themselves in their career.

[@darkside6526]

@Auto Shop Owners Group also in regards to the MRI statement. That's because health insurance covers a very large majority of that bill. Auto insurance doesn't do anything for car repairs unless you have an outside warranty but we know how trash those can be.

[@peterl2017]

You mean, people that think they are as educated or knowledgeable as techs lol. See that all the time, KZbin certified of course.

[@johnnyb8629]

If the auto industry technical certifications are anything like that in the HVAC industry, they in of themselves are a moneymaking scam. I was a HVAC service technician for almost 30 years and seen many certification body come and go. There was a time when the commercial company I worked for was bought out by a residential company and they wanted us to become NATE certified. I was a lead technician at the time and passed the testing on first try but some guys who were originally from other countries didn't and it was because the test didn't really test knowledge is was full of trick questions that required your reading skills to be good and every time you took the test they made 300$. Those certification organizations are bullshit.

[@katservices]

At the end of the day you said it best....the costomer aproved the repair. End of discussion.

[@Enrightauto]

Same issue with advance auto rotors as well. Especially with Hondas. They told me the same thing 😂 I said ok and switched to Napa and haven’t had rotor warpage at all

[@lucas-changingtheindustrypcast]

I talked to a friend yesterday who says the manufacturer does both napa and advance rotors - they stated the issue is ONLY with fixed caliper vehicles.... That in my mind doesn't add up with what we're seeing... Unless one vendor asked for a much lower quality product... Kinda like asking for the great value brand shells and cheese VS the velveeta.... You get what you pay for.... Not exactly sure why the discussion always comes back to food 🤣

[@Enrightauto]

@@lucas-changingtheindustrypcast Yea I’m not buying it. I’m like you and say they need to take ownership of the issue. I’ve recently had a bad run of brake pads from Napa. Been using them for about a year now with 0 issues. All of the sudden I’m getting noises like they are braking on gravel after only like 5-8k miles on them. My rep says to me after asking someone at Napa. He says they are saying you have to seat them in properly. 😡 I told him I’ve used them for a year now with 0 issues it obviously has nothing to do with the installation or break in process. It’s annoying

[@lucas-changingtheindustrypcast]

@@Enrightauto agreed! I think some transparency and honesty would go a long way.

[@XxAzraelTheAngelxX]

I’m an avid home mechanic (one day tech maybe who knows) I try to do all the work on my vehicles myself because I think it’s fun to do and I don’t mind the time it takes me. That being said I took my Lexus into my local mechanic that had a no start issue, couldn’t figure out the issue 100% even though I had a feeling it was the PCM (it was) shop charged me 650 for the job. I could’ve done it for 200 dollars and a day or so of my time but I didn’t want to so I let them crack away. I know and understand why the price has to be that but like you said in the back of my mind I’m thinking man that was expensive i feel like I’m being taken. But it’s the way it goes.

[@DavidRomanKC]

A pass-through device to program the module is $1800. Then you have to buy access to the OEM software, which can vary from $100 on up. Then you must know how to use the software and not brick any module. Some vehicles require that you program out-of-date modules before introducing a new module. All of which would require you to have access to factory service information. Sometimes, it isn't as simple as slapping in a new part.

[@honestmechanic1668]

But RepairPal says the repair cost should be between $99-$467.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

[@KANDiagnostics]

There's been a new shop owner., But not a new technician, I was first ASE Master certified 25 years ago and still have my certification, But I'm now the owner of a Two bay one employee shop and need all the help I can get, I do have a lot of questions on billing should I not put part on my Repair invoice,how much profit Should I be making on parts?, And i'm Desperately trying to find a solution to better protect my customers ' and myself ' as in some type of warranty/insurance I can offer the Customers in case I have a screw up or Have a parts failure , Your advice will be greatly appreciated.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

There's a ton to unpack here. We'll do videos soon covering some of this. But until then, join our Facebook group called Changing The Industry Podcast! Lots of feedback and answers to these questions there!

[@jerryBnT]

We are warrantying AAP rotors for pulsation a couple of times a week. We have used them for years and have had very few pulsation problems. We switched to AZ and the gold series, but the cost is several times higher, so if the quality is there it will be OK, I can sell them on quality.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

You don't have a Centric rotor supplier near you?

[@jerryBnT]

@@ChangingTheIndustry "No Traditional Retail Partners Found"

[@DavidRomanKC]

@@jerryBnT No Factory Motor Parts near you? They sell them under their FVP line.

[@jerryBnT]

@@DavidRomanKC 43 miles away, but I will check into it. Thanks

[@BehindTheCounter_TFSO]

It appears that nowadays, just knowing how to fill up your car with gas somehow qualifies as being a certified automotive technician. In the medical field, a doctor typically treats both male and female patients. In the automotive industry, we deal with over 3000 makes and models on the road today, and none are exactly the same. These vehicles are meticulously designed and built by thousands of engineers. Becoming an expert is challenging unless you focus on working exclusively with one make and model. 43 years ago, I made the decision to turn the automotive industry into my career, not just a job. Along the way, I've earned multiple ASE certifications and certifications in various areas. In the automotive industry, my role involves working with repair facilities. As I've watched some of these so-called repair videos on KZbin, the majority of the creators are automotive enthusiasts with little or no formal training. You have overwhelming viewers complementing how great the video was and how they help them. People are left uncertain about whether the job was done correctly or if their issue was effectively resolved. Have our standards dropped to the extent that we're now taking advice from someone without any known qualifications or credentials in this subject? We have no idea if they're truly qualified except for posting a KZbin video or a post. It seems that merely knowing how to disassemble and reassemble something now qualifies as being a KZbin-certified automotive technician. It appears that some states have insufficient oversight for their general repair shops. This is where the federal government needs to step in to ensure that every shop in the United States is certified, and their employees hold relevant certifications for the systems they plan on working on. Consistency in automotive knowledge and the quality of work can lead to increased pay for technicians.

[@Jglivermr2]

Why would you charge installation on the belt?

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

It would be less than the belt alone, but when doing an alternator on that car you aren't removing the belt completely. There's time associated with rerouting the belt. He mentioned a "couple ticks" so probably .1-.2. We should be paid for our time.

[@Jglivermr2]

@@ChangingTheIndustry Man I wish I worked for a shop like you guys run. I never even considered it that way, and just assumed you were double dipping.

[@0RayJones]

Not to mention replacing the tensioner and checking the other pulleys, for noise . @@ChangingTheIndustry

[@callmewes5121]

We use the platinum rotors as well in our shop however resurface them because of that same reason.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

We switched to a napa rotor/pad combo and solved the issue!

[@callmewes5121]

@@ChangingTheIndustry THANKS 👍🏽

[@peterl2017]

@@ChangingTheIndustry I find I can’t buy Napa brakes anymore, just too expensive. I can generally get AC Delco Advantage line pads/rotors for significantly less and find them to be good. I really like the people at my Napa store, just find they are priced out of range on many parts. With what it costs now for a simple brake job, especially on trucks, even with no calipers, every bit saved helps. As for Napa, I am not sure if it is a general thing, or just my account that has lost its discount. I have asked and they really don’t seem to care.

[@kameronkephart]

Average consumer here. Not sure why I’m watching this, I guess I just find it interesting. I felt like you guys are saying the average consumer has no clue but didn’t show how your shop would price it. If you’re going to critique, why not show the price of the alternator and the cost of labor? I own several businesses so I know all businesses need to make money to survive but why not show what an auto shop owner would actually make if they charged someone that price for the alternator?

[@DavidRomanKC]

Prices vary wildly. I can price it out for my shop, but that's irrelevant to anyone not using my services directly. As a rule, the more amenities a shop offers (loaner vehicles, extended hours, an aquarium in the lobby), the higher the prices will be on repairs.

[@kameronkephart]

@@DavidRomanKC you should be a politician lol. So are you saying there’s no standard labor rate? I’m sure there is at least a median labor rate for the industry. What would it cost using the median labor rate and standard parts mark up? What would it cost at your shop?

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

The target is 60% gross profit - that's the one standard figure you can use. Our newest video series gives a breakdown of the profit and loss, which should answer your questions.

[@kameronkephart]

@@ChangingTheIndustry I get what you’re saying but I think it’s an honest critique. You are saying this consumer is not being scammed and that the average consumer just doesn’t realize how the numbers are created. Then you fail to give an example of what it should cost and how the numbers are created. You’re essentially saying “this person is wrong but I won’t say or show them how they are wrong” I’m okay with 60% margins ( I have 11 employees and know how expensive running a business can be) but if you’re going to do a video on it, at least show us if the person didn’t get hosed how the shops come up with those numbers. How much was that particular shop charging for labor vs how much the industry standard is.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

I appreciate the feedback 😀

[@tchristopoulos518]

Tekmetric works well us

[@nickayivor8432]

👍 QUICK-WITTED Changing the industry Podcast From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 15:30

[@toddmcclary2820]

It's the same thing when trying to sell a car on line all the keyboard warrior jump on there nocking your vehicle and telling everyone the price should be half of what you are asking with out even seeing the car. Tell people It's a rip-off It's the way, Walmart thinking. I am a contractor and shut down my company for this reason,gave a price based on running a proper business and customer would respond oh I know a fireman WHO does this on his days off for half the price.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

So true! Is it this just the way its going to be? Is it all the fault of social media?

[@X_Studios]

Is Part mark is just a money grab for ez money

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Without parts mark up, labor rates would double or triple. So, it's either one or the other.

[@alt4119]

New = less wares, so its better.

[@LegendsGarageUk]

A good re manufacturing firm would be installing new components where required if not measuring and confirming they are within spec, the parts suppliers at least here in the uk offer the same 12 month warranty that you would get with a “new” component on re manufactured parts

[@coldfinger459sub0]

When you mentioned advanced auto parts the hairs on the back of my neck stood up that’s getting right up there with the other scary parts big box stores high volume remanufactured with a good paint job. Outch. That was a good podcast lotta good topics you were right on the money $$$ pardon the pun And I am one of those mobile mechanics but my hourly labor rate is more than many of my local brick and mortar shops who call me in to diagnose work for them or perform some of my services for them. I give my local auto shops a little discount brake. When I show them my price that I charge customers they don’t know how I do it because I’m more expensive. And I say because I don’t pay my employees welfare wages so when they grow old they only can afford to eat dog food. And be in debt and not be able to pay off their SnapOn bill. Only differences I have three jobsite warehouse locations spread throughout the city for supplies and equipment. And both my brothers who work with me doing the exact same business retired in their 40s fully owning every piece of property with no debt and no payments. And as for DENSO Parts for my customers or my shops that hire me to help them diagnose and recommend parts or procedures I tell them if it’s DENSO and it’s defective out-of-the-box I will do all my labor and diagnosis and parts for FREE !!!… If it’s any other manufacture I will charge you TWICE !!!… OEM or accept the consequences not my problem. Over the last 30 years some of my most profitable most reliable most honest and busiest shops even through recessions well all of their shops were starving and polishing tools painting racks and sweeping up the floor those shops were filled with customers. 🤔 they were the absolute highest prices in their area and they did no advertising. Other shops in the local area would recommend their problem vehicles to this and other particular shops that operate just like the shop because they were known to be the best of the best and our technicians stayed with them for decades. The shops that had on average the most problems and needed advertising and gimmicks special marketing where are usually shops with turnover and had a hard time keeping anybody past the three to five year mark. That’s an indicator there’s really something wrong. Shop should be able to cover their expenses and guy should be able to take three day for day five day training seminars flying across the state 1 to 3 times a year and if the shop owner thinks that’s too much and he can’t get his return on investment and the shop owner have to figure out what he’s doing wrong and it’s not just charging more. If you don’t make mistakes you never lose money and everything is profit multitudes higher than the guy with high volume down the street. Never compete with the cheaper garage to the left and right of you. If they’re that cheap , they not your competition. It is so much more profitable to never make mistakes charge the highest price do not skip procedures do not have come backs and test and double test everything you do before releasing it to the customer. Compared to the technicians who forced to make time beat the clock have a golden carrot dangling in front of them have a stick at the other end having some sort of bonus program put into place to make high numbers is a recipe for comebacks and selling parts that are not needed. On the other hand there’s some owners of shops who enjoy selling parts that are not needed they look at that as a good day‘s work in an honest profit and turned their head the other way.

[@lucas-changingtheindustrypcast]

Thanks for the kind words, only one spot I'll disagree with you... I think advertising is more about reaching the right clients, dealing with attrition (gotta remember clients age or move away), and smoothing out the workflow in the shop. When you truly measure shop metrics, even the best shops see a natural ebb and flow... Slow times...busy times... Advertising helps balance this to into a manageable workflow which keeps clients and staff happier. Now, those shops aren't swinging from $500 weeks to $150k weeks - they are often seeing minor swings in business. The shop you are referring to sees wild swings and variations, needing substantial advertising to keep the business afloat. I could name a few chains locally that come to mind. And those shops are seeing techs stay less than a year for the most part - and clients who have been ripped a new one, still come back - God knows why. My whole point can be summed up by saying this: Marketing is not an indication of a good shop or a bad shop. Word of mouth is capable of keeping a good shop busy but doesn't have the capabilities to ensure the right client knows about you at the right time. Why did I feel the need to bring it up? It's two fold, I've got local shops who say "he's advertising and we don't have too, he must be crooked" and I've heard time and time again "good shops don't need to advertise".... And as someone who didn't advertise, and does now? I can attest 100% it's not true!

[@coldfinger459sub0]

👍. I agree with you mini shops do need advertising for the slow time to hard time sometime in between modes because they do not have that second generation and third generation from the grandparents through the children to the grand children getting their first vehicles out of college all through word of mouth the shops that don’t have that going for them need to resort to advertising hundred percent agree with you. In the 2 chain franchise shops that I was going to purchase and I worked for first before getting to that point. I am well aware how the percentages work and advertising and the money you have to throw out. I’m just glad I didn’t go down that route not to say it’s a bad thing for the owner. But it’s really honor and privilege to be able to work with the few shops Who wrote under the radar who do not have slow times and have never advertised. It’s just a different breed.