Did Jesus Descend into Hell? Ephesians 4:7-10, Part 3

Look at the Book
Teacher: John Piper
Playlist: • Look at the Book: Ephe...

[@deshaunhill7934]

im sorry for my sins lord jesus and i have faith in your lord and i believe u died on the cross for us in jesus name amen🛐✝️😇📖🙏🏾❤️

[@Nunya14]

*All Glory to God in Jesus Name and The Holy Sprit!*

[@radleyrayner6087]

Praise our Mighty Lord and God Christ Jesus🙌♥️🕊️

[@kingsleyolaleyereubenwriter]

Thank you for such an edifying study. 🙏🏿

[@justinbennett1937]

Matthew 3:2 Amplified Bible (AMP) “Repent [change your inner self-your old way of thinking, regret past sins, live your life in a way that proves repentance; seek God's purpose for your life], for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

[@kildacious9171]

I took it to mean that Christ. after His death, descended - in the Spirit - into Sheol and took the Old Testament saints who had been held captive by death to Heaven when He ascended...He led them out of Sheol and into Heaven in His Train [ie. like a mighty conqueror displaying the fruits of His victory]...and then, Having delivered these 'Spirits of Just Men Made Perfect' to the Father, He sat down at the right Hand of God...and then poured out Gifts on His church. He could do this because by His sacrifice He now owns the Keys of Hell and of Death. Or...something like that. Such an interpretation doesn't seem unlikely since in Ephesians, Paul is taking us all the way back to before Time Began when God Chose us in Christ...and Forward to Eternity [the Length and Breadth aspect] when we are glorified and displayed as trophies of God's saving Grace [Eph 2:6-7]...and Here Paul is emphasizing the 'Height and Depth' [From the highest place in Heaven to the lowest place in Sheol] aspect of our Redemption...and all of this is explaining 'the length and breadth/Height and Depth' of the love of Christ that Paul mentions in chapter 3 [which passes understanding]. It also seems to fit in with Peter's mention about Christ being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the Spirit by whom He went and preached to the souls in Prison [ie. where the 'Captives' were]. At any rate...I absolutely love Pastor John and this study of Ephesians has been a mega blessing to me. His Exegesis of Ephesians is both scholarly and reflects a loving Pastors heart as well.

[@jayrodriguez84]

I agree. Are you pre trib or post trib?

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@jahk603 how far down in the earth do u think they were/are?

[@roblane5699]

We see the same language in Judges 5, after the liberation of Israel. Judges 5:12 KJVS [12] Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and 👉🏿lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam.

[@leefury7]

@K Y Purgatory is a later addition which it seems historically came out from the unwarranted addition to the so called "Apostle's Creed" inclusio "descended into Hades." That was added to the Aquilian Creed in mid to late 400's. The Latin church then based its entire system upon "purgatory" and discarded the teaching that "it is appointed unto man once to die then comes [certain] judgment." Not going to get into a debate here. Eph 4 speaks to the incarnation in the Pauline context. He descended to take on human flesh and ascended after death.

[@bufficliff8978]

@@KY-ji4wdPurgatory theologically different than Sheol, which is in the Old Testament. Purgatory is for penance, that after death we must work off the excess penalty and sentence our sins incurred because no one would want to be with God once we're aware of how sinful we are. Sheol isn't Purgatory because it doesn't have the theology of purgatory. Some people think Sheol is hell; some people think Sheol is a more encompassing term, which includes the place of rest referred to as Abraham's bosom, which is further thought to possibly be a place of rest while the pre-resurrection souls were at perfect peace until Jesus paid their debt and they were welcomed into Heaven, while some think Abraham's bosom is just Heaven that the souls saved by Grace before the resurrection were covered by the incoming salvation of Christ since God's time isn't the same as our time. Not sure if that made sense. Purgatory isn't a simple place for souls to have rested before Jesus' resurrection. Purgatory is an entire theological concept of penance and self-cleansing before one can live with God in eternity.

[@AndreRosario-zm8pf]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🌏✝️ Isaiah 61:1 Thank God I will always honor my marriage and family. Kim Walker Matthew 1:18-24

[@rhoda4621]

This is interesting! I've always thought Jesus died and went to hell because that's what would have happened to us, with Him taking the full penalty of our sins. And then that's where He set captives free and broke the power of sin and evil for all time. This is true though, Paul was pointing us to the truth that we should be focusing on: Jesus Christ, the one we've heard about, is God! Whether He went down to sheol, to the ground or otherwise, He's in Heaven ruling now.

[@michaelsamuel1069]

Jesus did not descend to HELL, but to SHEOL. He did NOT set FREE the damned in HELL during those alleged 3:days He spent in HELL. If that's true, the HELL would have been EMPTY of the suffering souls in Hell, and then FILLED up again as He left Hell together with the souls of those thieves, FORNICATORS, brigands, including HEROD, NIMROD, SEMIRAMIS, JULIUS CAESAR, CONSTANTINE, JUDAS ISCARIOT, NERO, etc...etc...How preposterous is such a suggestion!!!!!

[@jakobi4971]

Amen! I will encourage you though, in the Apostolic Creed the ancient Christians declare that Jesus “descended into Hell”, and I imagine they had a very good reason for that! I suggest continuing your search for truth (as I am doing now, I’m looking for the proof of what the church fathers said). God bless you in everything you do!

[@leefury7]

@@jakobi4971 study the history of not only the creed but the inclusio. The Nicene and Constantinople creeds were at least 100 yrs prior to our first evidence of an "Apostle's" creed, and did not include the inclusio "descended into Hades." It wasn't really added until the Athanasian Creed in 600AD.

[@bufficliff8978]

I love this thread!

[@brianshissler3263]

The glory of Jesus entering Sheol and freeing the souls there must have been so magnificent! I wonder, is there a painting of this moment? a song? Something? It seems like such a wonderful moment not to memorialize.

[@NJB423]

What does the Bible say about Jesus’ death? Was it really insufficient? Was it necessary for Jesus to go to hell and suffer more under God’s wrath? According to Romans 3:25, Jesus’ blood served as the propitiation and satisfied the Father. That same truth is taught in 1 John 2:1-2. The most powerful verse that lays to rest the idea that God was not satisfied with Jesus’ death alone and required him to do more punishment in hell is found in Jesus’ own words from the cross in John 19:30 as John records the words of Jesus, “When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, ‘It is finished,’ and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.” What exactly was finished? It’s clearly a reference to the work of atonement that Jesus accomplished in his death. To suggest that Jesus had to descend into hell and suffer more is simply a heretical addition to the gospel that must be rejected. Jesus’ Promise from the Cross The Biblical text teaches that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of his people (John 10:11). It never teaches that Jesus went to hell for the sins of his people. That’s a foreign concept to the gospel. When Jesus was dying on the cross, he was hanging between two criminals. As Jesus was suffering under God’s wrath (Isaiah 53:10), one of the criminals criticized and railed upon him saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us” (Luke 23:39)! However, one of the criminals embraced Jesus and was saved. He confessed his sin and called out to Christ (Luke 23:40-42). It’s essentially the only death bed conversion that we see in Scripture. Jesus made a promise to this criminal that echoes throughout the ages as a glorious promise of victory for all those who call upon the name of the Lord. Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus didn’t say, “I will be with you in paradise after I go to hell for three days.” Jesus made it clear that when he left that cross, He went directly into the presence of the Father-into Paradise. The criminal, now redeemed by Jesus’ blood, would join him. This is a glorious truth that dispels the false teaching of Jesus going into hell.

[@brianshissler3263]

@@NJB423 I am certainly not as knowledgeable as you are, and it is very difficult to accurately interpret everything in the bible. From what I understand, he went to the place of Abraham (sheol?) which is not hell, but rather the paradise that all those before his death who were righteous to await Jesus's "payment." I could very easily be wrong though, like I said I'm not as knowledgeable as you seem to be. And I just learned this a week or so ago. That moment when Jesus tells the thief that today he will be with him in paradise is what I think of anytime I feel I'm not worthy of being saved.

[@NJB423]

@@brianshissler3263 it's not as hard as you'd think, because the truth is very simple, next to complicated lies. We just need the Holy Ghost to lead us into all truth, without him I know nothing, and can do nothing good on my own. Anyways Jesus Christ ministered unto the spirits in prison. The four books of the Gospel never once mention Jesus going to hell. Its a damnable herecy that implies Jesus had futher suffering, and the cross wasn't good enough. That's a doctrine of demons. Let no man decieve you by any means.

[@brianshissler3263]

@@NJB423 oh I dont believe he went to hell to suffer, only to bring the righteous up to heaven now that their sin is paid. And you are 100% right about listening to the Holy Spirit, my "antenna" is getting better, but there are so many distractions.

[@NJB423]

Luke 5:32- (Kjb) I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[@angloaust1575]

Preaching to the souls in prison!

[@drmchillchristianbeats1455]

Thank God he did what he did.

[@xavierthomas5835]

Amen and amen

[@HearGodsWord]

A very helpful study 👍

[@NJB423]

What does the Bible say about Jesus’ death? Was it really insufficient? Was it necessary for Jesus to go to hell and suffer more under God’s wrath? According to Romans 3:25, Jesus’ blood served as the propitiation and satisfied the Father. That same truth is taught in 1 John 2:1-2. The most powerful verse that lays to rest the idea that God was not satisfied with Jesus’ death alone and required him to do more punishment in hell is found in Jesus’ own words from the cross in John 19:30 as John records the words of Jesus, “When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, ‘It is finished,’ and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.” What exactly was finished? It’s clearly a reference to the work of atonement that Jesus accomplished in his death. To suggest that Jesus had to descend into hell and suffer more is simply a heretical addition to the gospel that must be rejected. Jesus’ Promise from the Cross The Biblical text teaches that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of his people (John 10:11). It never teaches that Jesus went to hell for the sins of his people. That’s a foreign concept to the gospel. When Jesus was dying on the cross, he was hanging between two criminals. As Jesus was suffering under God’s wrath (Isaiah 53:10), one of the criminals criticized and railed upon him saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us” (Luke 23:39)! However, one of the criminals embraced Jesus and was saved. He confessed his sin and called out to Christ (Luke 23:40-42). It’s essentially the only death bed conversion that we see in Scripture. Jesus made a promise to this criminal that echoes throughout the ages as a glorious promise of victory for all those who call upon the name of the Lord. Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus didn’t say, “I will be with you in paradise after I go to hell for three days.” Jesus made it clear that when he left that cross, He went directly into the presence of the Father-into Paradise. The criminal, now redeemed by Jesus’ blood, would join him. This is a glorious truth that dispels the false teaching of Jesus going into hell. g3min.org/three-reasons-why-jesus-did-not-go-to-hell-when-he-died/

[@KagUya709]

This was a good explanation, I found it hard to understand how this verse thoroughly says Jesus went to Sheol. God bless you Father.

[@Richie016]

St. Paul clarified people on the stories on Jesus in the Gospels; the same lowly crucified Jesus on the cross is the mighty God ruling over the earth and heavens.

[@gokartbob6478]

That makes no sense, when Jesus on the cross cried out "my God my God" And after resurrecting he said to Mary " touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to "my God" Who is Jesus calling; his God ?

[@bitw434]

@@gokartbob6478 God the Father

[@Daniele63]

@@gokartbob6478 God is triune, Father, Son, and the Holy spirit, out of many exemples in the bible, you can look at Jesus's Baptism: Matthew 3:16-17 "And when Jesus had been baptized, just as he came up from the water, suddenly the heavens were opened to him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, the Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.” We see the 3 persons of the trinity described as distinct persons, yet as one God. In John 1 Jesus is described as the "Word" and God. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In the old testament, God declares there is no savior beside him, so Jesus can't claim to be savior without claiming to be God: Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior. Micah prophesied of the messiah, proclaiming his eternity: Micah 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

[@gokartbob6478]

@@Daniele63 you guys can't comprehend the word "OF"

[@Daniele63]

@@gokartbob6478 ?

[@elisavetashabelnikova9234]

Well, I'm not convinced 😅 just this word "the lower", it seems to me, retain the feeling, that it is not earth. Because if it were just about Christ's having been on the earth during His earthly life, would it be said " the lower regions of the earth" instead of just "regions of the earth"? And above heavens certainly means not the sky, but the spiritual world, so isn't it meaningful to think that the lower regions of the earth relate to Sheol?) But of course it's just my speculation 😅🤪 Bit, dear pastor John, I'm so thankful for having learnt about " Look at the book"! It is amazing go so deep into the Word!!! Thank you very much! May God bless you!

[@richardpeck1973]

You are correct! If John is the one that did this video, he needs to do some study himself.

[@elizaleski9618]

That was good. Dude got his stuff together

[@BloodCovenant]

I've always taken this to mean that Jesus descended to Sheol, maybe only Abraham's bosom part to declare the gospel so he could lead those captives free. That would be what 1 Peter 3:19 would appear to say or agree with "by whom also He (Jesus) went and preached to the spirits in prison," So, I am still convinced that option #3 the lower regions/parts Hades/Sheol possibly only Abraham's bosom part of it is where the descension went.

[@morore3889]

But did Jesus descend into hell?

[@sierrairick1704]

Exactly. I’m still puzzled lol.

[@calebgeary3890]

Luke 23:43. Jesus tells the thief "Today you will be with me in paradise"

[@RodH-pj1py]

@@calebgeary3890 reply yes cus as i understand it he died in jesus....but those since the times of noah didnt, so did jesus go down to hell to take the captives captive? What do you understand?

[@leefury7]

"Hell" is biblically the Lake of Fire. No one is suffering in the LoF yet. However, I'm sure you meant "Hades" or the OT "Sheol." I would suggest you read Dan Block's exposition of the OT usage of the word in the book "Hell Under Fire." Excellent analysis if for no other reason than that the OT teaching on where the dead go is quite undefinitive. I would also suggest you get a copy of Shedd's DOGMATIC THEOLOGY, 5th ed, and read the entire chapter, "Intermediate State" especially the foot and end notes. The historical account of the inclusio "descended into Hades" is given there. It should not be included in the Apostle's creed, simply put.

[@bufficliff8978]

@@leefury7Your comments have been VERY helpful! I hope to see you around other comment sections many more times

[@jamiehayslip8659]

The mighty God!

[@hotaruishere2133]

Do I not understand this as well as I should because I have not yet seen parts 1 and 2 of this miniseries? The idea of Jesus going to H*ll really worries and angers me.

[@gokartbob6478]

So who got Jesus out of hell (grave) ?

[@JayDUB213512]

Amen

[@jamesaaronmanarang]

Jesus Christ never descended into hell. Because its a place for sinners. And judgment day is not yet come.

[@garypickering7981]

Good point, however, I'm going to rely also on the traditions and confessions of the early church. ✝️🛐

[@HangOn31]

Whats that?

[@leefury7]

the nicene and Constantinople creeds do not include the inclusio.

[@AdvEug]

1 Peter 3:19-20 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (KJV) So what about this? It seems that Jesus did in fact go to hell and told the spirits who are in prisoned and will be released during the tribulation that He preached to them. That Jesus work on the cross has set us free from sins grip on us. The devil has no hold on us.

[@HangOn31]

These locked up angels were not în a regular Hell, they were în a PIT! Jesus gave them the NEWS and rained on their parade 😇

[@leefury7]

No. 1 Pet 3 speaks to Christ speaking through Noah, "a preacher of righteousness" to those alive at the time of the building of the ark. The reason for the global flood was Gen 6 where, as Jude refers, a certain number of fallen angels "left their proper abode" and contaminated the blood line. i.e. the blood line to the promised Messiah. Those angels were cast into Tartarus which is directly thrown into the Lake of Fire at the end of days.

[@stevenvalett1231]

In these verses we must consider 1 Peter 3:18-19

[@davevt04]

Even if Jesus did not descend into hell, he knows not only what it is like to die, but also what it's like to be dead -- to live in that happy, but unnatural state of un-clothedness and to dwell among the departed spirits (2 Cor. 5:4).

[@RodH-pj1py]

It still didnt give me an answer to that question....i understand it that Jesus actually went down to hell to preach to the dead since the times of Noah that died with a promise but no Christ. I find it troublesome cus if he didnt go down to hell for those 3 days in the tomb did he seize to exist? I dont believe that, and i think the keyword is "above all heavens" as it is explained that heaven is divided in regions and the highest being where God is. So earth is also divided in regions.

[@leefury7]

I honestly don't know where to begin in straightening out you statements. IMHO, any discussion of the Apostle's Creed inclusio, "descended into Hades" should start with the history of where that came from and WHEN! It is not in either the Nicene or the Constantinople creeds which were at least 100yrs prior to the earliest record of an "Apostle's creed". The "Apostle's Creed" was not written/compiled by the apostles or the students of the apostles. The inclusion was first seen in the Aquilian Creed mid to late 400's. That creed is highly suspect because of the pagan mysticism. It wasn't until 600AD in the Athanasian creed that we find it included in a major creed. However, in that instance it was included to strengthen "crucified, dead and buried" to emphasize a literal physical death. But the inclusio is unbiblical. No where in scripture do we have a clear statement as to such. It, first of all, presumes that the place of the dead has two apartments. One for believers and one for non-believers/wicked. It places Paradise along side of the apartment where the wicked dead are housed. And yet the Rich Man (Dives) looked up to see Lazareth in Abraham's bosom. And the tribulation saints are under the altar in heaven. Christ ascended to Paradise after His physical death while His physical body was placed in the "grave." The whole idea of Christ descending to preach to the dead of Noah's era, is dubious at best and IMHO, is the weakest of the three arguments. I think it is better understood by what Peter writes in chapters 1 & 2 that Christ, in Noah, preached to those who died in the flood as he was building the ark. "The more sure word." "Noah a preacher of righteousness."

[@lisahyyppa3360]

Jesus was once a man… always Divine. Jesus Christ is comprising the One ☝️ True God. 1 John 5:7-8 King James Version 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Book of Job expounds upon the message of how Jesus is available to those whom cry out to him of brokenness ♥️ & contrite spirit… i believe that message IS three dimensional. However, i agree, that particular verse has the focus as John Piper suggested.

[@kirjian]

1:09 I had no idea the word "booty" actually meant loot or spoils, I thought it was a made up word for butts. Learn something new every day

[@jt19933]

You made me laugh. Booty, is that placed in a boot or a designated space for something. So car boot equals trunk of a car - even though it is more commonly used to refer to the contraption places on a car wheel to prevent you from from driving away.

[@richardpeck1973]

Do a word study on Sheol and you will find it is always down, or lower than the surface of the earth. My Lord, man, study to show yourself approved a workman that needs not to be ashamed!

[@boombay.saphire7440]

All that I understand from this quote is that earth is the hell

[@ihavetubes]

Ain't no joy in hell though and we aren't separated from God so the earth isn't hell.

[@leefury7]

The OT belief of Sheol was that it was at the center of earth. So much for you flat earthers! LOL

[@Kevin_Beach]

From an ancient homily for Holy Saturday: “ .... there is a great silence on earth today, a great silence and stillness. The whole earth keeps silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. God has died in the flesh and hell trembles with fear. He has gone to search for our first parent, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow the captives Adam and Eve, he who is both God and the son of Eve. The Lord approached them bearing the cross, the weapon that had won him the victory. At the sight of him Adam, the first man he had created, struck his breast in terror and cried out to everyone: “My Lord be with you all.” Christ answered him: “And with your spirit.” He took him by the hand and raised him up, saying: “Awake, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will give you light.” I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. Out of love for you and for your descendants I now by my own authority command all who are held in bondage to come forth, all who are in darkness to be enlightened, all who are sleeping to arise. I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated. For your sake I, your God, became your son; I, the Lord, took the form of a slave; I, whose home is above the heavens, descended to the earth and beneath the earth. For your sake, for the sake of man, I became like a man without help, free among the dead. For the sake of you, who left a garden, I was betrayed to the Jews in a garden, and I was crucified in a garden. See on my face the spittle I received in order to restore to you the life I once breathed into you. See there the marks of the blows I received in order to refashion your warped nature in my image. On my back see the marks of the scourging I endured to remove the burden of sin that weighs upon your back. See my hands, nailed firmly to a tree, for you who once wickedly stretched out your hand to a tree. I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side for you who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side has healed the pain in yours. My sleep will rouse you from your sleep in hell. The sword that pierced me has sheathed the sword that was turned against you. Rise, let us leave this place. The enemy led you out of the earthly paradise. I will not restore you to that paradise, but I will enthrone you in heaven. I forbade you the tree that was only a symbol of life, but see, I who am life itself am now one with you. I appointed cherubim to guard you as slaves are guarded, but now I make them worship you as God. The throne formed by cherubim awaits you, its bearers swift and eager. The bridal chamber is adorned, the banquet is ready, the eternal dwelling places are prepared, the treasure houses of all good things lie open. The kingdom of heaven has been prepared for you from all eternity”.

[@bufficliff8978]

But why can't the idea be found in the Bible?

[@michaelsamuel1069]

Paul was talking to The Ephesian believers; not referring to unrepentant SINNERS!!

[@mylilchickssix5226]

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

[@bufficliff8978]

That doesn't mean hell, as we don't have reason to think hell is simply the earth's core. It can be imagined that he'll is the physical location of the earth's core, but it can also be read plainly as Christ was buried in his tomb like Jonah was buried in the fish.

[@cbwilson2398]

Oddly comforting to see Pastor John misspell "Sheol."

[@thedrunkatheist7551]

Why if I die as a nonbeliever I spend eternity in hell but when Jesus died on the cross this is considered the ultimate sacrifice? Where did he go for two or three days? Why did he not spend eternity in hell? If his death paid for all sin why is there still death and sin and no garden of eden? Why are we still being punished for others sins? Maybe Jesus died for some sin and not all.

[@jholyroller6048]

I thought Jesus went to Sheol not hell to set the captives free

[@Romans1-8]

Acts 9

[@ClintonRivas]

For the algorithm

[@hornplayer1228]

Before descending into hell, Christ and the warrior archangel Michael with his forces, gathered in Paradise where they fortified themselves with spiritual food and drink in preparation for the task that lay ahead, and a toast was drunk in honour of Christ, their King. Christ had already clothed Himself in readiness for the battle, for the time had come to confront Lucifer, spirit to spirit. The whole celestial company was now fully armed with blazing torches and fiery swords. And then the attack began: with Christ at their head, Michael's army of angels, carrying their torches and fiery swords, stormed into the kingdom of hell. The satanic forces found that their efforts to defend their territory were fruitless: Christ thrust open the gate of hell, and the kingdom of darkness was suddenly illuminated with His light. A statement in the Gospel of John refers to this moment: "The light shines in the darkness." (John 1, 5) The light originated in Christ but was present, too, in each of the warrior angels accompanying Him; their combined radiance served to light up the dark recesses of hell. While we know He had ascended to Paradise immediately following the crucifixion (as the thief was promised) we learn 3 days later that He did not ascend to the highest Heaven where God the Father dwells - when Christ warned Mary Magdalene not to touch Him. Within a few hours disciples were touching Him and yet He did not ascend to the Father until several weeks later. The reason for Mary having to keep clear was due to the powerful spiritual forces at work while a physical body required for appearing and disappearing to His followers was being completed.

[@robjr8774]

Outstanding imagination.

[@leefury7]

Really? Wow. Where do you people come up with this stuff?

[@michaelsamuel1069]

"Gifts" to the non-ELECT??? HARDLY. What gifts YAHSHUA is talking about?? Wealth, good health, prosperity, salvation/unmerited gifts?? Do all the people receive unmerited gifts from YAHWEH?? I do not believe so.

[@leefury7]

Buy a copy of at least the 5th ed of Shedd's DOGMATIC THEOLOGY and turn to the end and read the entire chapter, "The Intermediate State" especially the foot and end notes. He explains the history of this inclusio. Basically, it shouldn't be in the Apostle's creed. It came about in the late 4th C from a mysticism perspective.

[@hprfire]

Throughout the Hebrew Bible heaven and earth are used in tandem frequently to convey the meaning of all things. The entirety or full scope of everything. I think this passage is emphasizing that Christ's work encompassed the full scope of creation. From the deepest depths of Earth nothing is more remote than Sheol to an unfathomable place above the heavens. Christ's work went beyond the physical observable realm to encompass even the most mysterious places that we as humans fear (the depths) or marvel at (highest heavens).

[@velkyn1]

and again, still no agreement on Christian "truths".

[@rhoda4621]

that's okay, if its a matter of doctrine we don't have to agree on everything. the main point that Paul was talking about is Jesus Christ being Lord

[@velkyn1]

@@rhoda4621 "that's okay, if its a matter of doctrine we don't have to agree on everything. the main point that Paul was talking about is Jesus Christ being Lord" oh, so it's okay? Funny how you all claim that you and you alone have the truth, but not one can show this to be the case. You disagree on waht this "lord" wants, how to be saved, what heaven and hell are, what baptism is and how it should be done, etc. What frauds.

[@jdominguez777]

@@velkyn1 You can look this up on the Internet but Paul and Peter had disagreements. The main point is that Jesus Christ is the head of all things and the only way to be saved from hel, and to live and happiness in eternity. I would like to know though you called many Christians frauds do you take that same tone if it were Muslims or Buddhists or even atheists? Some thing you should think about