Did Mace Windu Really Beat Palpatine - Star Wars Explained

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[e-mail] Donate to Help Improve Frequency and Quality of Content: / user We analyze the duel in Revenge of the Sith that many fans have argued over for years that being the duel in the Chancellor’s office between Mace Windu and Palpatine who moments earlier was ousted as the Sith Lord Darth Sidious. Did Mace WIndu really beat Palpatine or was this all a ploy by the Sith?
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[@gary3851]

Mace Windu disarming Sidious was real, he genuinely did overpower Sidious at that stage and bested him. It is at this point that Darth Sidious fakes his vunerability, he felt by doing so he might sway the approaching Anakin, who was deeply conflicted, to tip the balance back in his favour. It was a matter of survival, and Sidious was ruthless in achieving it.

[@snoopyrogue359]

I agree Mace legitmately disarmed Sidious, but Sidious was holding back throughout the fight, he could have killed Windu various times, but he needed Windu alive for Anakin

[@shill1444]

Um... no. Sidious did not hold back. He was just as surprised as Mace was. He attacked him last but did not expect a Jedi to use his "dark side" fighting style to battle him back. In the end, its clear that he submitted and let Mace "believe" that he'd won.

[@shill1444]

Yup. Agreed. That's how the novel implies it. Doesn't make either of them less powerful, it just shows how clever and desperate Palpatine was for true power.

[@Th3Nigma]

In truth, the card that saved Sidious was the Padme card. If Padme weren't a factor, Anakin wouldn't have given two shits whether he lived or died.

[@shill1444]

This!

[@austinalthaber4068]

Man, I was so pissed that Kit Fisto went out like a pedestrian Jedi Master.

[@benward917]

he never would against any other sith but he was at the wrong place the wrong time and would you rather him be killed by some dickhead clones or the most powerful sith in history and actually stand a ground for longer than most could

[@Bidoofus]

Same!

[@gabrielcarrasco8414]

You can say that about all the jedi masters. They are meant to be incredibly powerful and wise users of the force yet they didn't even put up a fight.

[@rosspinkerton4827]

+Gabriel Carrasco I Know right how on earth did PADME survive on Geonisis and so many jedi did't

[@gabrielcarrasco8414]

the boss _317 Exactly. Just terrible writing if anything. I have a hard time believing that clones would be able to take out masters so easily. Guys who have decades or in some cases centuries of experience and practice lose to people who didn't have the force so easily.

[@abraxis20]

The way I saw it was that Mace legitimately disarmed Sidious and reflected the lightening back on him, causing him some distress. However, Sidious feigned weakness to get Anakin to intervene. When Anakin chopped mace's hand off, Palpatine seized the moment and showed he had 'unlimited power' left.

[@TTUploads]

This is basically what George Lucas said.

[@kiloneie]

He would be an awesome biological generator xD... Encase him in a conducting capsule with rods in the middle and have him yell "Unlimited Power" for all eternity.

[@mider9996]

Bull, he let him win

[@geekyradical4985]

Black Jack Take into account that George Lucas did say that Mace Windu won the lightsaber duel against Darth Sidious, which was perfectly obvious from watching the movie, but he didn't say how he managed to do so, or whether or not Sidious was going all out.

[@jerichamesclammay3107]

calm down, feller

[@sdaftermath123]

....Im pretty sure lucas stated that mace legitamately beat palpatine.

[@IIMiikexDII]

+TheSunStudio1 Since you're going to be copy and pasting that comment, might I mention Disney has mentioned all movies remain canon. I don't think they intend to change anything George Lucas has already done in the movies, that would be irresponsible. Disney also said hes the second most powerful Jedi only second to Yoda, he's still a better duelist than Yoda by far. So before copy and pasting a moronic comment 7 times, how bout you try using that brain of yours.

[@pjm9275]

TheSunStudio1 That's not even fair though. Sidious's and Yoda's duel was in a different arena and was predominately force-based. Just because Yoda couldn't defeat Sidious doesn't mean that Sidious couldn't be defeated in another way. There's no applicable hierarchy here.

[@TTUploads]

He said that he got disarmed but then Sidious was faking it with the force lightning.

[@bobwilson679]

+thesunstudio Yeah, the battle was a draw, unfortunately. Neither opponent could beat the other.

[@aguy3664]

Theatre Freak thats why mace has purple red plus blue and blue means you are good with the lightsaber and if you have green it means you use force more than the lightsaber and u are better with the force

[@alanfrost75]

What if Luke boinked Leia at the end of EP 4, before realising she was his sister? Complete psychological analysis please...

[@aster4jaden]

hahahaha oh my god! yes to this.

[@Eric-lj6gx]

Their baby would have Down syndrome

[@elijahpadilla2094]

+Freddie Benson Kylo......

[@Khroniclas]

+Elijah Padilla lmao i guess kylo is pretty hideous

[@RageOfTheTiger]

their baby would be uber luke jr

[@elijahgroves9248]

Of COURSE I BEAT HIM!! Who do you think I am!!!

[@Evzone1821]

Sam L Jackson

[@thfcjb2561]

Nick fury

[@sverre7676]

The only black man on the Jedi council

[@mightysix54]

+Thekillerofzs who

[@soapboy-pq3qk]

MACE WINDO your black OHHHHHHHHH

[@servel2]

George Lucas has said that Mace Windu truly beat Darth Sidious at that moment.

[@servel2]

The HoloNet No he did not, he said the scene always went with windu overpowering Sidious and then anakin having to slice his hand to save palpantine. If anything the novelization of it changed what Lucas initially said about the scene

[@mikes8116]

Thank you.

[@lcjones0710]

TheSunStudio1 except statements from GL regarding the prequels are canon.

[@servel2]

TheSunStudio1 Yoda lost tactically to Palpantine, not because of power. Had they've been fighting on even ground Yoda would have ended Palpantine

[@h8ingyou149]

Sergio Velasco, what was planned on paper and what was shown on film shows that he thought what was on paper was stupid. Sorry to say it, but the film is Cannon, the previous edit is not.

[@zacharyl3751]

So did Palpatine also intend to burn himself to an ugly crisp with force-lightning? If so, for what purpose? I reckon Mace Windu just outfought him, fair and square.

[@cainabel6356]

@ Zachary L - Look up Sith Alchemy (Mask), there is your answer. Sidious always looked like that burnt disformed creature. He used Sith Alchemy (Mask) to gain a normal man's appearance. His face reverted back due to the lightning hitting his face. He then used that to his advantage claiming that the Jedi scared his face. There are always deformities when using the dark side. Look at every sith, you will see deformities. The eyes are the first thing to go, hence the yellow and red color. Then the body is the second. Why do you think there is a different appearance between the Jedi and Sith?

[@ultramandyna4377]

Sidious was trying to destroy his mask, through Sith Alchemy Sidious was able to create a mask to hide his true identity.

[@geekyradical4985]

Zachary L He didn't actually scar his face. His true face, corrupted, by the Dark Side, was just revealed. He wasn't actually drained and could have defended himself, at any point. George Lucas even confirmed that Darth Sidious was feigning weakness, in the director's commentary of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith.

[@Introverder]

I think the same - also Mace could have killed him just before Anakin has shown up. Also Palpatine wouldn't risk his life fully on someone's else hands (and confused mind) - c'mon!.. He could only hope that Anakin would come on time to save him.

[@geekyradical4985]

Introverder Palpatine put himself in situations like that, before such as when he apparently "risked his life" aboard the crashing Invisible Hand so that Anakin Skywalker would kill Count Dooku. You seem like the sort, who would think that Luke Skywalker could have killed Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, when in fact he could have defended himself at any moment.

[@shoresean1237]

Vader : My Master--over the years, I have wondered? Was your near-defeat by Master Windu merely a ruse? Could you not have defeated him at any time? Palpatine: Not merely at any time, my friend. Only---when it was funny.

[@tldivine6211]

Truly a Sith thing to do...

[@redeye4516]

I feel like this could be a decent Robot Chicken sketch

[@chomppig]

"Only when it was funny" lol I just had a Who Framed Roger Rabbit flash back

[@m0thdm]

UNNNNNNNNN LIMMMITTTTEEEDDDDDDD POWAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@izzyisdizzy5847]

Can you do a what if Anikin stayed on Mortis to keep balance

[@KingExituS]

He would have screwed it up!

[@joesondgeroth9248]

+KingExituS that's Anakin for ya

[@0rangecray0n]

yes I agree you should do this one

[@mitchsorrenstein1819]

classic bannakin

[@pablohanc]

Throwing a fight to one of the greatest swordsmen in the universe would be an exceptionally stupid thing to do.

[@OmDzable]

That alone is reason to believe that Windu beat him fair and square.

[@pablohanc]

+OmDzable yep

[@pablohanc]

+Hans M. Sigfried it was just poor writing, as per most of the prequels.

[@OmDzable]

Hans M. Sigfried That bit I agree with. No doubt he faked weakness when Anakin was in the room. But to say he threw the entire fight, in my humble opinion, is horse shit.

[@SmEliot21]

He was said to be the best in the Jedi order.

[@richierich8259]

Personally, I think that Sidious is the most over rated Sith. I feel that his skills and talents lay in deceiving, manipulation, and the witch craft behind the dark side. Besides, Mace is like one of the best duelists and is pretty powerful himself. Mace reflected Sidious' lightning back unto him. The only reason why Mace was killed was because Vader showed up and cut his hands off.

[@TheMksteel]

Indeed it was a stalemate, until the 'Chosen One' made his choice, albeit it was the wrong one, and it took 30 years to fix that lol

[@starwarsfan-ye9hw]

i cant agree more bro. every word so true!

[@coolmanchiefs]

This is cannon

[@YousufKhanPR]

comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened-r/77247/

[@starwarsfan-ye9hw]

Yousuf Khan™ i read it like palpatine did fear windu and windus shartterpoint was totally correct. matthew stovers idea was to make windu think about(!) the possibilitiy that palpatine has faked evth but we do not know at all if it is exactly the case as as stupendous wave said its only maces perception. i m convinced that wasnt lucas perception as he allowed stover much space for his own one as long as it would make the novel, quote, "great". BUT for sure the scenes is ambiguous on purpose. that one or the other way seems realistic in that fictional reality.

[@DarkKillerM]

The image at 0:59...

[@benward917]

he looks like a transvestite duck

[@kademotionlesstheathiest1481]

I noticed that when I first saw revenge of the sith when I was like five and saw how weird it looked LOL

[@TizerakYT]

That's the emperor's "Oh" face :P

[@DT--kt3vj]

It's the face of a man who knows he's gonna kill 3 jedi in 3 seconds. *Durrh*

[@theprofessionalspy1471]

He was enjoying him self wink wink

[@peytonquathamer181]

The only reason palpatine won was that he had plot armor

[@mondlit]

Yeah pretty much

[@Khroniclas]

no because palpatine planned his fake defeat probably the first time he saw anakin. sidious was very smart and always planned ahead. mace would have won for sure. but sidious already knew how he would defeat him.

[@Thelegogunman1234]

+Jordan Raaymakers Lucas said that Windu would've defeated palpatine in a real duel.

[@sithboss8698]

+AwesomeTiger468 thank ya

[@Bleh1217]

The Former God-King George "Skywalker" Lucas is no more. His word is no longer holy. Hail to the new Disney Empire. Glory to Arstotzka.

[@fanaticfloyd]

How can this still be argued after george lucas said Windu destroyed palpatine, and would have done so in 1v1 :S.. there is no debate here.. :S

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

I always believed different but if the creator of the most creative universe in fiction says that's how it is then I accept that, his word is law, or it used to be anyway.

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

The HoloNet Well if that's the truth I'll stick to my original thoughts on the matter.

[@Eddyhartz]

Hey I've heard that argument before. I was wondering where you saw this?

[@Supermandrew7]

I agree with Eddyhartz. I too have heard of this but have never seen the actual source

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

Eddyhartz Andrew Quan considering he hasn't answered either of you yet I'd say he doesn't have a legitimate source, it's probably just hearsay.

[@jjsmithlago1234]

Mace Windu's form completely counters Palpatine's. I think that Mace beat him straight up. Palpatine knew he couldn't beat him due to Mace's form so at best he tried to control how he lost so that he could appeal to Anakin who he knew was coming. So I think he just bought time.

[@alinaqvi2902]

Mace won. A sith lord (Especially palpatine) would never let himself come that close to death over the slim chance that they could get an apprentice they would later tell Luke to kill. You also said that sideous let mace live at the start and killed the others but that is untrue. In the fight, mace got into position the second sideous touched the ground but no other jedi did so sideous went after them.Also, when sideous first used force lightning you mask came off which means he was drained and weak.

[@alinaqvi2902]

you're mask *

[@Demolupapan]

nope, you are wrong :P

[@briancross9571]

I tend to agree. Plus, Sidious face was burnt off by his own lightning due to Windu. I don't buy that he could have won at that point.

[@sithboss8698]

+popasmuerf thank u this guy is a I don't no I can't stop laughing all this so called research from Wikipedia he's exactly wrong I'm dead

[@lordaizen66]

i read the literature seemed to be clear palpatine had been winning he was forceing windus blade into his face and windu was moments from death when sideus just stops with the lighting

[@diamondwoods2039]

I don't know, I don't think palpatine would just fry his own face by choice.

[@mondlit]

Lol true

[@wessaxon964]

I don't know if this is still canon but Palpatine face always looked like that because of dark-side degradation .

[@CaptainMyCaptain33]

+wes saxon yeah. right? he was already an ugly duck because as you mentioned. and he hide it away by using the force. and it was only revealed after this dual. I doubt that's cannon now. and more along the lines of, Palp would have done anything for power. including going past ugly into minging and beyond. because he simply would not care about looks only power.

[@BubbleBOB1989]

When emersing youself and using the Dark Side at the level Palpatine did, you do end up looking like a pale ballsack. He did hide it using force shroud, a power he kept using up until he used the very powerful force lightning, removing it's effects. Well, after the fight, he would no longer need to use it anyway.. Cuz in the event where he lost ( hahahaha very funny), the secret of him being a sith lord would no longer be a secret, so why continue to pretend otherwise. But in the event where he killed all the Jedi who tried to "arrest" him and where he gained a new apprentice, he could use his ballsack-like appereance to gain sympathy and turn the republic on the Jedi if he said that the Jedi had made him look like a pale ballsack.

[@Zer0nite]

If it meant leading to the complete destruction of the jedi, believe it. He'd been planning it for decades.

[@claykeough7898]

From my POV the fight was even and Sidious underestimated Windu's ability to fight against a dark side wielder. That said, sensing Anakin coming, Palpatine figured his best shot(with Dooku and Grievous dead) at survival would be to appear innocent and in danger of a powerful Jedi Master that Anakin had always questioned the motives of, thus winning Anakin's full trust and loyalty. It gets more complicated when Sidious let's his HATE for the Jedi and ego get the best of him when Windu begins taunting him, 'The oppression of the Sith will never return, YOU HAVE LOST'. Sidious then deviates from his plan and tries to kill Windu right there and then. Windu masterfully blocks his lightning attack, but foolishly thinks he can still destroy Sidious with Anakin standing right before them. The rest is history.

[@spacesurfer318]

Mace just beat him don't over complicate things Why would palpatine purposely put himself in danger and put his life on a decision of of a confused Jedi, and then almost kill himself with his own lighting

[@roseaquino910]

Oleg Nazarovets it's because he want anakin to be vader

[@ggamesgarner8027]

Oleg Nazarovets and George Lucas himself said that mace won fair and square

[@bt3376]

Gideon Garner source? (? (

[@OldtimerMercedesBenz]

Because he has foreseen this hahahaha

[@geekyradical4985]

Darth Sidious put himself in situations, like that, before, such as when he risked his life, aboard the crashing Invisible Hand for Anakin Skywalker to kill Darth Tyranus. While Darth Sidious was firing Force-lightning at Mace Windu, both seemed to be struggling, however only one was being genuine. The novelization of the movie clearly depicts Mace Windu being overpowered, by Darth Sidious' Force-lightning. Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking, on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me"-Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith novelization. On the other hand, George Lucas confirmed that Darth Sidious was, in fact feigning helplessness, while at that point, in the director's commentary of the movie. He was never in any real danger and could have killed Mace Windu, at any point, during that scene of the movie. Also, Darth Sidious' face wasn't actually scarred. His knowledge of the Force was so great that he was able to effectively prevent his face from being corrupted, by the Dark Side of the Force. During his confrontation, with Mace Windu, however, his own rebounding Force-lightning ( the primary use of his power ) revealed his true corrupted face.

[@biofriik]

This channel reincited my interest in Star Wars.

[@TheStupendousWave]

Wow! I'm so glad! My goal is to share what I love so much with others that have a passion for it like I do!:D

[@terhen2280]

one of us! one of us! one of us! one of us!

[@DYLANJJK94]

He even makes Star Wars cool, Btw the last movie didn't give us much info on anyone, Bc they have time for builduo in the next two, Plus spinoffs.

[@terhen2280]

+Dylan K rogue Juan hype!

[@terhen2280]

+Agar.ioGotte x ye because juan is almost like one i like to use it :D

[@akiskev]

Nice analysis bro!!!

[@TheStupendousWave]

Thank you!

[@willhulsberg356]

+The Stupendous Wave WHAT IF... you made a video of what would happen if Dooku never left the Jedi order.

[@MrDalewin]

+The Stupendous Wave One of my favorite duels of all time, short and sweet. What about the one with Yoda though? Who had the emperor on the ropes more?

[@CognitiveBerserkerNPCAndy]

+Dalen Lewin yes I would like to know your thoughts as well. I think Yoda would have come out on top of they had a different battle ground. Sid looks scared a few times. The Force explosion just so happens to knock Yoda off and Sid on.

[@MrDalewin]

+d1001more yah, i did notice when he realized he was fucked, until the aforementioned force explosion happened.

[@MrJ.31]

I've always believed Yoda to be the more powerful jedi overall but Mace was seen almost as a special weapon specifically to combat the sith. As you said in your video the darker the opponent the stronger Mace will be. I think Palpatine did indeed fight Mace at full power which in turn only made Mace his equal. Against someone like Yoda Mace would lose solely because there is no darkness he can feed off of but Palpatine was the exact kind of threat Mace trained to fight against. They simply couldnt beat each other. I also feel that Palpatine was a new breed of Sith, one that would put it all on the line in order to achieve greater power and for that reason i believe he fought Mace with all he had then threw the fight when he felt Anakin was close enough to watch, therefore in the perfect place to turn him. Taking that risk, even if it meant losing, was just simply worth it

[@cainabel6356]

Technically Vapaad was used against the rogue dark Jedi. The Sith were long dead before Mace was born, that is what the Jedi claimed. The only thing is that that technique is used against people that use dark side power, hence Dark Jedi. Vapaad was based off a wild fighting style known as Juyo, which most sith use. Only Mace and one other jedi were known to have mastered Vapaad. Vapaad does require power from the person using it. With Sidious's power, Mace would have ran out of power and lost concentration using Vapaad and would have died. Yoda is a jedi master, that uses a saber fighting style in close range and in tight spaces. That is why Sidious won the battle against Yoda.

[@DARTHBLUNT713]

@@cainabel6356 the Sith wasn't dead, the Sith was in hiding for a thousand years

[@cainabel6356]

@@DARTHBLUNT713 - You really did not notice that I said that is what "the Jedi claimed." I never said that the sith were dead. I was saying that was what "the Jedi claimed." The Sith have lived in the shadows, since they knew that the Jedi would destroy them otherwise.

[@DARTHBLUNT713]

@@cainabel6356 exactly

[@danielcooke3800]

Nothing new...just a true sith

[@jjohnsonnccc]

Personally, I think Sidious sensed Anakin was on his way too and thought this would a good time to turn him fully to the dark side since he had mace in a 1v1. And waited until Anakin was close enough to intentionally throw, so he could appeal to him. I know Mace is a badass and could definitely hold his own against him, but Sidious was a master planner so he probably knew this was the perfect opportunity.

[@sgt_4alex757]

I discovered this channel yesterday. Your videos are absolutely amazing. Especially the what ifs.

[@TheStupendousWave]

Thanks so much!

[@TacticalHyena]

i like your profile pic

[@rosspinkerton4827]

+The Stupendous Wave What if Obi Wan joined Dooku on Geonosis

[@mally1236]

+The Stupendous Wave I took it to mean the fear Mace had sensed was not Palpetines but Too late realised it was Anakins fear

[@CaptainM792]

+The Stupendous Wave What if the Jedi believed Dooku after the battle of geonosis and go to arrest the chancellor ?

[@siile1432]

Yeah, I really don't think Mace Windu could have beaten Palpatine otherwise. Yoda was more powerful, and also more experienced against Sith than Mace, but you can see during his duel vs Sidious, when full skill/power is unleashed on both sides, how hard it was for him. Yoda might very well have won without the fall but he is on another level, well above Mace Windu.

[@iSteelRazorBladeGAMING]

*Mace windu is a better duellist than Yoda.*

[@siile1432]

SteelRazorBlade // AdamSRB No, especially not against a Sith. Training duels vs other Jedi don't really count in that situation. You really think Mace Windu could stop Force lightning with his bare hands? Mace Windu was being careful despite Sidious fighting at a fraction of his actual power and speed. With Sidious's full power unleashed like in the duel vs Yoda, Mace Windu would have been crushed.

[@King-Hrolf]

+Siile Lucas said mace overpowered palps

[@Swollpool_]

yoda is a teacher. mace is equal to a battle master. mace is a better duelist, especially because of how old yoda is.

[@siile1432]

Dark Blue Beetle A teacher, and one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live. And definitely the most powerful Jedi in the Order at that time. Don't get me wrong, I freaking love Mace Windu, I think the character is amazing and he has one of the coolest lightsabers by far, but Yoda is way stronger in the Force and more equipped to fight a Sith like Sidious. Lightsaber skills aren't enough, if Sidious had thrown lighting with the same power against Mace as he did vs Yoda, it was over.

[@BajiKorvisamo]

Your explanations are really appreciated, you may not see the value completely, but man you have made soooo much sense out of these movies. So many more questions but im sure your channel will truly help, Keep on keeping on.

[@MasterOFSuperFunny]

You're getting significantly better at this friend. Keep up the awesome work. We appreciate it.

[@rubixcube460]

1:00 What is that face!?

[@infoluminux]

that's the face of joy.

[@balazsfazakas3368]

Thats the face when you know youre gonna kill 3 Jedi masters in 3 seconds

[@Khroniclas]

+Balázs Fazakas best answer ever.

[@themadladorian4364]

+Balázs Fazakas Wow. ;_;

[@LambdaHDvideo]

Némmá egy magyar

[@cameronadams1125]

Last time I was this early the Death Star wasn't blown up

[@frikandelmetui5790]

But Star Wars is Sci-Fi..

[@tracymcgrady5574]

+Pino is een beast It says a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

[@sc_art5408]

+Scott The Scout lmao

[@DYLANJJK94]

It still wasn't, Maybe it still isn't lol well it did but came back lol

[@Neo_Knight]

Gotta love how George Lucas said that Mace Windu beat Palpatine properly and people are still like: "No Palpatine just lost on purpose!"

[@danielmcleod9298]

It just seems unrealistic that someone as calculated, cunning and undeniably intelligent as Palpatine could lose to Mace Windu purely because of the vaapad when he was such a master of everything, manipulation, all forms of lightsaber combat, the dark side of the force itself and more. Mace had so many weaknesses including his arrogance which would be easily exploited no matter the circumstance by someone like Palpatine.

[@COLBYtheDRAGON]

@@danielmcleod9298THATS BECAUSE YOUVE NEVER READ ABOUT MACE WINDU MACE WAS FAAAAAAR MORE POWERFUL THAN ANYONE IN LORE MASTERING THE DARK SIDE AND LIGHT AND STILL CHOOSING THE LIGHT AND USING HIS OWN STYLE TO COUNTER ALL DARK SIDE USERS THESE WEIRDOS JUST DONT WANNA SEE MACE BE THE GREATEST DUELIST FOR “reasons”

[@COLBYtheDRAGON]

EXACTLY BROOO!!! SAM AND LUCAS HAVE BOTH TOLD US …MACE WON STRAIGHT UP🤷🏿‍♂️

[@paperplane-db8qf]

@@danielmcleod9298it’s not really unrealistic that Mace Windu was stronger than an old wrinkled man.

[@spacemichael9090]

Didn't George Lucas confirm Mace won the duel and Palpatine didn't throw it?

[@cainabel6356]

Reconned.

[@geekyradical4985]

Meme Supremacy George Lucas did say that Mace Windu won the lightsaber duel against Darth Sidious, which was perfectly obvious from watching the movie, but he was referring to the viewers' perspective of the duel and wasn't specfic as to whether, or not Darth Sidious was going all out.

[@blueberryindigo3087]

@@geekyradical4985 it wasn't it's still Canon

[@blueberryindigo3087]

@@geekyradical4985 he comfirmed that sidious was going all out

[@geekyradical4985]

@@blueberryindigo3087 Well, I can understand the argument that Mace Windu legitimately won the lightsaber duel against Darth Sidious, but the notion that he could have killed Sidious is just ridiculous. Sidious could have killed him with Force-lightning at any moment.

[@RichardtheFilmGeek]

What if Vader killed Luke on the second Death Star?

[@Sem.or.sumthin]

He did a video on that

[@bobbytokyo8132]

Luke would be dead.

[@Greeze]

How do you spew out these flawless videos every single day? You must work really hard on these, good job!

[@TheStupendousWave]

Thank you so much:)

[@bluesheepplayzyt-minecraft1552]

+The Stupendous Wave Whats ur name for the card game

[@kademotionlesstheathiest1481]

+The Stupendous Wave I wonder what would happen if the separatists won the clone wars and if the empire would still be JUST storm troopers and not a mix of them and droids idk hat do you think

[@JordezaFifa]

Amazing video! I always loved Vaapad right from the time I first learned about it, it's such an awesome way to fight against your opponent! I personally think that Windu would have beaten Palpatine if this one hadn't "given up", with the condition that he didn't "slip" from the form. I've been watching your videos for a while Stupendous, and to me your channel for Star Wars videos is simply the best, you deserve many more subscribers! Finally, I think it'd be awesome if you could analyse the Qui-Gon & Obi Wan VS Darth Maul duel! Peace :)

[@TheStupendousWave]

Thank you so much! I agree, I actually really like TPM duel as well, although there are a few moments I am unsure of:)

[@JordezaFifa]

The Stupendous Wave Your welcome, happy to bring support to your work!

[@josephpolizzi_5759]

+The Stupendous Wave I'm a big kit fisto fan so did kit actually contain palpaten in the novel kit lasted a lot longer then the movie

[@mihaistanciu161177]

Very good as always, niw we see the movies from a different perspective!. Thank you!

[@siile1432]

0:15 0:45 These shots (and others during that fight) always bugged me, you can clearly tell that they gave the actor a longer hilt in order to allow him to wield the lightsaber with two hands. Problem is, it looks absolutely nothing like Sidious's lightsaber. Actually it might very well be one of the Anakin stunt hilts. Lazy-ass decision.

[@MinecraftLudde]

Yeah I know, it's clearly Anakin's saber....

[@SkulShurtugalTCG]

It's part of a deleted scene where Palpatine grabbed Anakin's lightsaber with the Force after his had been knocked out of his hand - in a scenario where it was 100% positive that Mace had won. George Lucas decided VERY early on in the editing process that it didn't fit the mood of the scene, so he took it out.

[@HeyItsFate]

+SkulShurtugalTCG hi! I didn't know you liked Star Wars!

[@siile1432]

SkulShurtugalTCG Holy crap, never read that explanation anywhere. That's crazy. It sucks that they still ended up using shots from that scene, the different hilt is very apparent, not sure why Lucas thought people wouldn't notice.

[@MrElias760]

Still, there are plenty of other examples where the hilts blatantly change mid duel.

[@enahejdyllav5690]

Please explain the duel between master Yoda and Palpatine ! Great video by the way

[@TheStupendousWave]

Thank you!

[@Khroniclas]

interesting option. i only know yoda lost on purpose but that is as far as i can get.

[@johnstormcloud6012]

+Jordan Raaymakers yoda could have killed sidious but he would have of killed himself in the process

[@johnstormcloud6012]

+Jordan Raaymakers for yoda to get anywhere near killing sidious he basically have to take sidious to kill him just to stab him too

[@Khroniclas]

+Alex Butler that is absolutely not true. as yoda was beating sidious without endangering himself... well inguess hebeas fighting some type of supernatural... but excluding that... yoda literally just ran away for an unknown reason. that is the only reason sidious could attack succesfully.

[@brynngaebe7307]

these videos are so interesting. they add a whole new layer to the story.

[@ASmith-vl2km]

Nah, per the Revenge of the Sith novel, Mace won and was able use Vaapad at will. Vaapad actually allowed Mace to keep up with Palatine's speed, but, Palpatine was still killing Mace. Which in the novel, Mace mentioned to Anakin when Anakin arrived. I reckon because it was tiring to keep up with Palpatine who was extremely fast, per the novel. Anakin didn't bother to help Mace. That traitor. Nonetheless, Mace eventually got the jump on Palpatine due to his Vaapad skills. But, Palpatine leveraged Anakin to ultimately win by taking over Anakin's will and slicing off Mace's hand. If Anakin had not showed up, Palpatine would have been toast. No where in the Shatterpoint novel does it state that Mace could not use Vaapad at will. Furthermore, Mace's strength was being able to identify his opponent's weakness as opposed to absorbing their anger/energy. In fact, per the Revenge of the Sith novel, near the end of Mace's battle with Palpatine, Mace finally figured out Palatine's only weakness was, Anakin. Bottom line? The novels have the answers. The movies always leave out the fine details. For example, there was no good way for them to demonstrate Palpatine's speed on the big screen. Conversely, the novel pointed out his speed when he fought Mace and the other Jedis.

[@NaregChakhbasian]

When you state that Palp would have been toast. You also said that his only weakness was anakin. He literally had no weakness of his own. Mace could only keep up with palp when they were dueling, any other time, Palp would easily kill Windu.

[@capncrackfiend]

I think this duel solidifies Palpatine's talent at manipulation; he knew his telepathic message to Anakin would draw him, and he knew how hard to fight Mace, and exactly when to make it appear that he had been brutally defeated and was about to be mercilessly executed. The fight was never about beating Mace, whether he could win or not, but more about what exactly what Palpatine was about; pulling the strings of others for a desired outcome. Anakin cutting off Mace's hand was the triumphant moment all of his planning had been leading to: truly crushing the Jedi by turning their best and brightest against them, and, most importantly, by exposing their own hypocrisy. If one's morals do not stand in the most difficult of situations, then they never truly existed at all, but were merely a pretty facade. Palpatine proved, in the moment that Mace intended to kill him, that the Jedi were no better than the Sith at their core, and only as good as the situation proved convenient. Anakin even tried to argue this to Mace, and previously was trying to convince *himself* that the Jedi way was the right and good path, but Mace's decision to kill Palpatine was truly the moment when the Jedi fell apart.

[@Junuman1]

Joe Everyman omg that is a really intuitive and deep explanation of the situation. Imo, it's the best explanation I have ever heard of this duel and the situation with anakin.

[@Orto-jj2di]

AGREED AND SO THE CONCLUSION IS THIS: Anakin's role in Palp's duel with MW is far too convenient for it all to have happened by chance; on the other hand, the events are far too complex to have all been planned out. Although there's been no official answer, the truth is probably a balance between the two: Palpatine, an expert manipulator, set up a situation to his advantage, then reacted to the unpredictable elements with excellent fighting skills and quick thinking.

[@nofatchxplzthx]

a psychopath like palpatine would never put himself in danger just to sway anakin. Anyone who suggests he would do something that reckless clearly doesnt know palpatine as a character.

[@dmgreenofla_578]

You are missing an important perspective. Sidious threw the fight because he had no choice. He knew if he threw the fight at that moment he would live long enough for Anakin to show up or mace would have killed him. Mace won fair and square and overcame sidious. He did overpower sidious. You look at stuff weird SW.

[@marcobeast1]

Naw Lucas already confirmed mace won case closed

[@longhairedyahoo]

George lucas said mace won fair and square why is this still a debate sidious was skilled and powerful but mace windu straight up clapped him

[@bongcloudopening5404]

​@@longhairedyahoo the reason is simple Mace's fighting style Vaapad which specializes in fighting dark side users Basically the darker your opponent the stronger Vaapad becomes

[@longhairedyahoo]

@@bongcloudopening5404 your correct windu fed off palpatine using the dark side its basically use there power against them the creator of star wars said mace won sidious never threw the fight he straight up lost because windu was at the time one of the if not the most powerful jedi the order had

[@longhairedyahoo]

@@bongcloudopening5404 my friend you simple do not miss

[@Christrulesall2]

Stupendous wave's in depth analysis on the possible outcomes and alternate chain of events in the star wars universe to me are my new canons.

[@jacstark3148]

Love the vid bro, I really love your channel

[@TheStupendousWave]

Thanks!

[@jaydenb.9902]

+The Stupendous Wave what if mace killed Palpatine in the duel?

[@gamerbeast3616]

+The Stupendous Wave luke Vs darth water duell if you dont have done it already

[@RecklessLife76]

Sidious could see everything. He knew Anikan was coming and how it was gonna play. He plotted to destroy thousands of Jedi and succeeded!! He slipped at the very end when his dog of 20 years turned on him. Who sees that coming

[@cainabel6356]

Hey it is just like the Jedi at that time. They knew only peace and thought the sith were dead. Then what happens a sith appears and kills them. Then what happens after the Jedi were known to be dead? Sidious softens and grows in only pride. He then thinks he is unstoppable and is killed by a jedi. Funny how it goes in Star Wars, you can not stay in peaceful thinking your enemy is dead.

[@Fam200532]

Could he see Vader throwing him down that shaft

[@benpezzot8805]

To an extent yes but he knew windu was going to give him a fight and he knew windu was a very powerful jedi

[@00Mindi00]

BRILLIANT video man! Great work! I absolutely love this duel, I think it's one of the most important of all 7 films, and it's a shame it was reasonably short.

[@venomcarnage7774]

Wonderful video yet again.

[@Daxcheese555]

I disagree because Lucas disagrees xD. He clearly states in the ROTS commentary that the other Jedi were dispatched so easily not because Palpatine chose to spare Windu, but that only Windu and Yoda were on Palpatine's level. Furthermore, as stated by others, Palpatine doesn't seem the type to have let himself nearly get killed(when he's disarmed) to recruit a Jedi who may or may not aid him. The main reason why people think Palpatine threw the fight against Windu is because he defeated Yoda, and they do not consider that Windu to have been a stronger duelist than Yoda(which is what the movie portrays).

[@geekyradical4985]

Daxcheese555 To what quote by George Lucas are you referring?

[@miguelmontenegro3520]

i think so.. he beat palpatine in my opinion.. he was way more powerful than those other masters who accompained him.

[@juanriosjr494]

Yes Mace Windu Won the Fight Fair and Square when I first saw this in theater Mace windu was the Top Jedi

[@tredor73]

Great perspective!

[@EvidensInsania]

Sidious was also always much more of a force user than a lightsabre duelist and yet refrained him using his powers during the fight and only fully unleashed them to finish it. Really it was like Sidious was fighting with one hand tied behind his back. I'm sure if corrupting Anakin hadn't been his ultimate goal Sidious would have most likely used his incredible force powers to kill Mace rather than allowing the fight to drag on with lightsabres which was Mace's speciality.

[@cainabel6356]

Yep, Sidious was holding back. He had his own power along with the Dark Sith Temple underneath the Jedi Temple. I bet his powers were amplified because of the Sith Temple.

[@teachies902]

Darth Tyranus fights like he has one hand tied behind his back, too. I think it might just be a Sith thing.

[@NaregChakhbasian]

Thank you! Finally a real SW fan. Any old school fan knows this fact. If his greatest capability was in the force, why did he choose to duel Windu, who is known as one of the best duelist in the galaxy? Palp is cold and calculating so it is unlikely he was being overconfident here. Any real fan knows that palp was just buying time here until anakin arrived, and this whole scene was his chance to turn Anakin to the dark for good. That's how far above Windu he was in terms of power.

[@NaregChakhbasian]

​@@cainabel6356yeah it's just silly some of these new fans are thinking windu could end palp here.

[@ST-cp6fn]

As I promised SW Darth Maul is red Luke lost a hand Anakin was a lil bitch Because he doesn't like sand.

[@TheStupendousWave]

That's actually pretty good! lol

[@fabulousbandit5193]

great

[@RammsteinFan1122]

This was beautiful. Please do have my children.

[@johncampbell779]

What is this

[@TheSkully343]

It's like poetry it rhymes.

[@omnitool1586]

There is a much better version of this made by Antoine Bandele. It's titled Mace vs Sidious, who was in control.

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

Great explanation, it's good to see a more definitive answer to this, also forgot about how it was described in the novel considering I last read it when I was just a kid so cheers for jogging my memory. I always felt that Palpatine was holding back a little and let Mace get the upper hand so that he would be at Windu's mercy when Anakin arrived, that's not to say that Mace Windu wasn't putting up a great fight as I always believed he was on almost entirely equal footing with Palpatine but I think if he really wanted to Palpatine would've killed Mace before Anakin arrived. This is one of my favourite lightsaber duels in the entire saga, from the first moment I saw it on the big screen as a kid I was entranced by it, plus the fact that I always wondered what the Emperor would be like as a duellist and never thought I'd see it on screen.

[@ddcowan86]

there is a point in the fight where Palpatine ducks under maces blade and puts his lightsaber right up to maces neck and waits allowing, mace to bring his guard up. Palpatine throws the fight with perfect timing, so when anakin enters the room it looks like an assassination attempt. mace repeats the line "he's to dangerous to be left alive". which I believe was Lucas telling us that Palpatine knew exactly how the duel would play out, and threw the fight to turn anakin to the dark side. all of Palpatines moves up to that point were perfectly executed, and that duel was as well

[@joshb444]

Oh my God, thank you, someone else actually noticed that detail. That moment right there couldn't have been in the film for any other reason than as an absolute dead giveaway that palpatine wasn't trying to win the duel. No other lightsaber duel in all of star wars has a moment like that that occurs in the middle of a still undecided fight. Palpatine had clairvoyance enough to know that Anakin was coming so he threw to fit the narrative he was pushing

[@benlabonte2523]

0:46 this is not the lightsaber he had at the start of the fight...

[@RPDSurvivor]

Can you do a video detailing the Yuuzhan Vong, the Yuuzhan Vong War, and the reception from the SW community at the time?

[@zachcutler-orrey9163]

LOVE your videos!!! Keep 'em coming! Please do full videos on: •The Yuuzhan Vong •What if the Yuuzhan Vong won the war? •What if the Separatists won the war? Thanks!

[@coreymullis9030]

I have always loved the concept of vaapad, and wish we would see it more. a video on it would be cool if there is enough info out there to make one. maybe add some info on juyo too?

[@gabrielsalcido6963]

I think Sidious really did throw the fight. We know he uses two lightsabers. He loses the first in the fight with Windu but has another when he fights Yoda. And we know from The Clone Wars tv show that he used 2 blades. So he threw the fight but still had that lightsaber on the off chance Anakin didn't fall prey to his plan

[@neighborhoodgaijin2617]

Great analysis, but I can't help but feel that mace would've had enough hate to keep the battle going. With the realization that his friends and comrades all died because of a war setup by the enemy from the start, really gives a good look into windu's psychy.

[@Darth-Revan]

Hey stupendous, could you do a video on the light saber fighting forms? I apologize if you already did this video, but I can't seem to find it if you did. Also thanks for all the star wars info. I love hearing it even if it is only legends.

[@APBrian25]

Love your videos thank you

[@BrownHairL]

A way for people to understand what gives: Palpatine DID throw the battle, although Windu DID have a shot because he used Vaapad, a light saber combat style that directly counters the vicious imput of "hatred" from the opponent, which Sidious had plenty, as if in a sort of "loop" of aggressive counters. Then, Lucas said in an interview that Windu DID beat Sidious, and that was retconed by the canon novelization, in which we can see that Sidious clearly had the edge as Windu couldn't maintain the "looping" forever. In this final context, Sidious chose not to go all in for Windu to have a chance to seduce Anakin, and in the end only threw the battle because he KNEW Anakin was right there, and faked being afraid so Anakin would help him. But yeah, Mace had a shot.

[@cainabel6356]

Yeah, he did, but you do know that he had to work up to get to 100% Vapaad. Sidious did slow down after killing the 3 Jedi Masters to leave Mace alive. Sidious knew that he was getting to Anikan and that Anikan would show up. Therefore throwing the fight to further his agenda of making Anikan his apprentice.

[@Orion33759]

I think Mace had an advantage because Sidious was still force concealing himself to an extent during their dual. At least until then end when he busted out the force lightning

[@rafaeluzcategui8378]

I agree with you, because also in the movie you can see when they focus Palpatine he has this evil smirk like he's thinking of something more when he's fighting. Also Palpatine had ultimately better command of the force, so even if Windu could compete with him on a saber duel, Palpatine has the upper hand in other areas.

[@MrtnMrnv]

Your videos are always awesome to watch. The way I see this story is: Sidious never lost control over the duel. Even when cornered on the ground, he's there only for the chance of getting Anakin to help him, but was ready some trick with the force if Anakin hadn't. Sidious is far more skillful with the Force than what he is with the lighsaber. I suspect he could have killed both Windu and Anakin at the same time using the force, if he had to.

[@pinkdeath82]

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." - Mike Tyson. Mace punched him in the face but the plan happened to work in the end.

[@Slame333]

"Mace beat him, but only bc Palpatine let him." So in other words, Mace didn't actually defeat him. That's not really a definitive answer, man.

[@Orto-jj2di]

He meant that his defeat at windus hand was what he counted on.

[@jacktravis5671]

Nah Windu was very powerful probably better than yoda with a lightsaber but yoda was stronger with the force.

[@charlesgrissom3043]

So your opinion outweighs George Lucas stance on his creation?

[@knightshadow1894]

Good afternoon, and thank you for making this vid. I was wondering how you would rate Kit Fisto as a great duelist and or light saber wielder? In the novel The Cestus Deceptions by Steven Barnes there's a description of Kit Fisto battling a JK droid, and Fisto speedy handling of the weapon even astounded Obi Wan. "Kit's emerald light saber blade was here, there, everywhere, unpredictable , irresistible". It might make one believe that he was one of the best wielder of a light saber in the Jedi Order. I would love to see a brake down of this battle and how Fisto might have fared against Palpatine if he also knew Vaapad like Mace Windu. Thanks again for making this vid. Hope this peeks your interest! May the Force be with you, alway"!

[@haydendraycott7897]

Very good analysis! You should do a vid examining if Sidious would have also betrayed Darth Maul in the same way he did Dooku and later Vater.

[@verbalkint4258]

Why is this even being debated still. George Lucas already confirmed that Mace beat sidious fair and square.

[@geekyradical4985]

Facts no Hacks Take into account that all that George Lucas did was describe the scene of the movie from the viewers' perspective and wasn't specific as to whether, or not Darth Sidious was going all out. Mace Windu did win the lightsaber duel against Darth Sidious, but the question is whether Sidious allowed him to do so. Regardless, Sidious could have killed him with Force-lightning at any moment. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpnWd5V6qbGljMk.

[@Adil_Turysbek_TVRC]

@@geekyradical4985 Well he tried to kill mace with lightning but instead he made himself ugly😂. Mace in my opinion was the strongest character in the movies.

[@geekyradical4985]

@@Adil_Turysbek_TVRC Both Darth Sidious and Mace Windu seemed to be struggling, while Sidious was firing Force-lightning at Mace, but only one was being genuine. The novelization of the movie makes it clear that Mace Windu was being overpowered by Darth Sidious' Force-lightning. This was beyond Vaapad. He had no strength left to fight against his own blade. -Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith novelization. On the other hand, George Lucas confirmed that Darth Sidious only ceased his lightning attack, because he was playing possum in the director's commentary of the movie, similarly to how he attempted to make himself seem defenseless to Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi. He wasn't actually being weakened. George Lucas: "OK, well this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber, and it was always that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand, but this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later, 'cause this is, it moved to the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here and you can see now that it's very clear that he's...he...he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers". -Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith director's commentary. It's also pretty clear from watching the movie that Sidious wasn't helpless and could have defended himself at any moment as evident when he threw Mace out of the window with Force-lightning. He was never in any real danger and could have killed Mace Windu at any point during that scene of the movie.

[@Zenfluence81]

Yea pretty sure Lucas flat out confirmed Mace Windu legit won the *Duel*..although yes Palpatine obviously threw the fight at the end and could have used his other abilities to drop Mr Windu. In other words, I think its fairly definite that Mace was superior in swordplay considering the nature of his style, but Palpatine is in all likelihood too powerful in the darkforce for Mace to win once other, non-melee powers are brought into play.

[@CesarPerez-cn8nr]

Well Palpatine did use force lightning and it only resulted in the stuff bouncing back to him

[@fuddsaethfed9147]

the best st review I've ever seen. Well done!

[@rswingman]

Interesting: Your description of the fight reminds me of the Star Trek TNG episode where Data beat the Strategeum champ by playing for a stalemate. In so doing, he challenged his opponent's endurance/patience. In chess terms, this would put Mace constantly behind a "tempo", as in playing Black

[@Raptormon132]

You should make *"What if Anakin spared Dooku in Revenge of the Sith?"*

[@emmahoward6706]

Do a vid explaining darth maul vs quigon & obiwan

[@emmahoward6706]

PLZ

[@Joe-yh7eb]

I agree nearly 99% I believe he was holding back. He even told Yoda, "Now you will witness the full power of the Dark Side!", which I think is a clue he was holding back in his fight with Mace Windu. Another thing, not only did Obi-Wan have an edge in knowing Annikan's fighting skills, he also was fighting an emotionally unstable Sith.

[@lazygenie5616]

grrrr This makes me actually angry it was stated by George FUCKING LUCUS that mace windu out classed him in his dueling abilitys and as well in his force use. so no he did not throw the battle he did not let mace win he was outclassed plain and simple.

[@cainabel6356]

Read George Lucas's books on Revenge of the Sith. Sidious was playing Mace in order to further leading Anakin down to the dark side.

[@Elpha22]

Stop fucking lying dude. George Lucas LITERALLY said this on the Blu Ray commentary. You are LYING!!!!

[@geekyradical4985]

Cameron Brown Naw, Palpatine could have thrown him out of the window with Force-lightning at any moment.

[@ertrerseier3821]

@@geekyradical4985 Sa it the way it is: Palpatine could have butt raped mace windu, dudes a one of the most powerful sith lords for fucks sake

[@devantesmithodu]

George Lucas just came out saying that mace really beat him and would beat him in 1 on 1 fight

[@geekyradical4985]

Devante Smith To what quote by George Lucas are you referring?

[@ertrerseier3821]

@@geekyradical4985 I see you ask this everywhere, don't bother my friend, these idiots will never accept the fact that sidious is ages ahead of mace

[@jacobbouwmeester9738]

"I'm sick of these motherfuckin sith lords, in this motherfuckin galaxy"

[@logan.m2242]

I do loves this duel you are my favorite youtuber for star wars content i don't really have anyone else to talk about stuff again. It would be great if you could either analyse or do a what if on the AOTC duel between count duku, Yoda, Anikan and obi-wan . I think there are several different possibilities that could have happened such as. if yoda or anikan and obi-wan defeated (killed) duku or they stopped him escaping. But i also think that after defeating anikan and obi-wan he could have taken anikan and could have trained him sort of like ventress. Thanks for all your videos keep up the good work :)

[@superlucas010578]

In the novel it states that Sidious senses Anakin when he was about to enter the room, and states that Anakin sees Mace and Sidious going at it for a while and moving way fast (moving in and out of existance). Yet, in the movie you see Anakin entering the room and the first thing he sees is Mace pointing his saber at Sidious in the corner (like if he had just beat him). If we assume that Sidious let himself disarm intentionally so Anakin would think that Mace wanted to kill him at all cost .... then why did he spared Windu's life at the beggining of the fight if he had not sense Anakin was going to get there until the end ???? The truth is Sidious fought without holding back and Mace legitimally disarmed and cornered him. Is in that moment when he sensed Anakin entering the room and that's when he begins his charade : "Anakin I was right, the jedi are taking over". Then when Mace tells him : "The opression of the Sith will never return, you have lost" , Sidious gets so angry that he forgets for a moment his act and tries to strike Windu with lightning. When he notices that his lightning is being backfired at him and he has no chance of winning .... that's when he starts to play victim again so his only hope is to get help from Anakin .... which he gets in the end. The novel was written shortly after the movie was released so ....

[@ryanfoster136]

George Lucas has said in interviews that Mace just beat Palpatine pure and simple and it wasn't a "thrown" fight.

[@cainabel6356]

Reconned.

[@aabfc1887]

Isn’t canon.

[@danielcooke3800]

Anyone else seen Afro Samurai?

[@danielcooke3800]

Or Black Lagoon?!

[@ballsthatclank]

Sidious knocked the lightsaber out of Yoda's hands with lightning and yet Windu held his just fine...OK sure.

[@cedricborero4677]

How about a video on the duel of Obi wan Qui gon vs. Darth Maul? I'd love to hear what your view on that topic.

[@abstractjwl806]

I always thought Palpatine threw the fight in order to successfully turn Anakin. I think he foresaw Anakin acting on his behalf to save him if he put on the whole "I'm so defenseless" routine. Anakin acted to disarm Mace but I don't quite think he knew Palpatine would kill him. It's all deliciously tragic and it sucks that Lucas couldn't write this whole thing better.

[@masteryoda9259]

The real winner is the warrior who stay alived after the duel, simple.

[@bundleization]

Hercule beat Cell

[@willsirdevils2642]

What if anakin turned back to the light on mustafar

[@starwars910]

Great take on it. I think of mace as yodas shield in that he knows how to defend against the dark when he is aware but needs Yoda (as pure light) if he is disarmed (as in dying). Palpatine was more deadly but mace threw him off even when he expected to win.

[@Tai182]

Windu defeated him legitimately because of Vaapad. He was able to channel Sidious's power back at him. The reflecting of sith lightning was a good demonstration. Windu would have grown stronger in the fight this was expressed in the facial expressions when they locked blades.. He was literally the best weapon to beat Palpatine if it wasn't for Anakin interrupting.

[@PiBBP]

As hard as it may be to accept that Mace beat Sidious fair and square, any other explanation or theory besides that seems way to cheesy and farfetched. Sidious having full control the whole time is elementary school level of plot structuring.

[@theselumps]

I love Star Wars and u stupendous wave made me love it more

[@TheStupendousWave]

Excellent!

[@rosspinkerton4827]

+The Stupendous Wave Tell that to Kanji ckub

[@crilent29]

+the boss _317 the next meme

[@aydonlook2976]

cancer

[@texashazzard7606]

love this ur Theory is awesome!!!

[@marconeves1979]

Great analysis

[@bobfeet573]

Can you do what if Luke and Leia we're emediately trained to become Jedi please??

[@bobfeet573]

Ok not emediately but from a young age

[@kylelloyd4437]

immediatly :p

[@CaptainMyCaptain33]

is your last name really feet? I've heard the name foot many times. never feet. Bob feet. Boba fet. hmm.

[@coachcosta69]

They would straight jump vader with obi wan when they're like 16

[@bobfeet573]

+Legendie that's true but remember this. Luke is the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Jedi. He faced Vader and defeated him with only basic training. I bet he could take on Vader even if he was younger when Vader found him. Also my real name is Noah and is was going for Bob A Feet like from the robot chicken sketch.

[@vipercat6466]

pls do a what if mace windu activated order 65 instead of rushing to kill the chansler

[@pout6038]

what if palpatine said: "execute order 6"

[@penguingames6804]

Order 65?

[@jutan5419]

+PenguinGames it's like kill the chancellor cuz he bad

[@vipercat6466]

order 65 states to kill the cansler i think i might be a cool thing 2 see it cant be canon tho

[@rudydragoo8422]

#suggestion: What if Spar (The clone trooper who joined a group of Mandelorians after defecting from the Republic) was found by Boba Fett and got him to come out of his seclusion on the Mandelorian planet. Boba Fett wanted to Get Spar to help him on a bounty hunting mission after Slave1 had to make a landing on Mandelor to make repairs and Spar came out of his hovel to see what was going on. First Boba was surprised, but he realized that Spar was a clone of his father just like himself and he asked him who he was. That was when Spar told Boba his name and proceeded to help him effect repairs on Slave1. Soon Spar agrees to help Boba an a difficult mission to find a missing jedi named Mace Windu and bring hime to Lord Vader for execution. Eventually the pair find Mace on Jakku but instead of helping Boba take Windu in, he turned on Boba to save Windu. Spar had previous dealings with Windu where he found Windu's new beliefs in the darkside comparable to his own after he found an old sith holocron. Spar kept his lightsaber that Windu previously helped him to build while both learned from that old sith holocron. Spar generated sith lightning and attacked Boba while Mace used Shatter point to find Boba's weaknesses to exploit them. Boba was knocked unconscious and the pair of sith thought they killed him and they stole Slave1. Boba later wakes up and immediately goes to find a medical droid to fix his wounds. Spar and Windu begin a new life of bounty hunting and both wear full clone trooper armor with their red lightsabers on their side.

[@borgCube100]

I think Vapad definitely caught Sidious off guard. I think that Sidious knew Mace would give him more of a challenge than the rest of the masters combined, and knew it could have been believable that Mace could overpower him, making Anakin believe him more. Since he was one of the most powerful Jedis of course. But he wasn’t expecting Mace to be that good. But during the fight I think he realised how Mace was keeping up with him, which allowed him to keep the fight to a stalemate until he knew Anakin was coming. Before he knew what Mace was doing, I think he was genuinely a lil worried which caused him to use more power, which in turn made Mace stronger. But I also don’t think he was ever going to use his full powers. As you said, he kept Mace alive instead of killing him right away. Even if he could have killed Mace during the fight, he wouldn’t have. Everything he was throwing at Mace was more of a defensive attack than one that was meant to kill Mace. If Anakin chose not to side with Sidious I think he would have let Mace kill him though.