Did Qui-Gon Believe Darth Vader Could be Redeemed Unlike Yoda and Obi-Wan? (Legends)

[@macwelch8599]

Qui-Gon had the most amount of faith and respect for his unofficial Padawan

[@420-V.T.L-Machinist]

He was also one of the few Jedi that actually tried to follow the will of the Force and understand it. Not just blindly followed the Jedi way. He was curious and thats the reason why he was chosen to receive the Force Ghost training by the Whills.

[@enki6676]

@@420-V.T.L-Machinist It's no coincidence he was the one who found Anakin. Qui-Gon was pivotal to the fate of the galaxy and the fulfillment of the prophecy, probably the third-most important character after Luke and Anakin. Another Jedi who was more of a strict adherent to Jedi dogma would've left Anakin behind as a slave on Tatooine, which would've doomed the galaxy to Sith rule forever. Palpatine would've become the emperor either way in the end, with or without Anakin, his plan was already well in motion, he just wanted to recruit Anakin to get on his good side as he would've been a major obstacle to his designs otherwise. With Anakin out of the picture entirely, nothing could've posed a threat to the Sith plan, Anakin being the Chosen One born of the Force was the only thing which was threatening to undo the Sith Order and all they had worked towards for millennia, which is why Plagueis freaked out and wanted to kill him upon learning about him, and Palpatine wanted to turn and recruit him instead in his arrogance, which was ultimately his downfall, quite literally. In his hubris, he thought he was powerful enough to control the Chosen One born out of the Force itself, but he was proven wrong in the end. Plagueis wouldn't have let such arrogance endanger his designs and taken such chances, he would've killed Anakin in his infancy had it not been for Palpatine killing him first. Lack of humility, excessive confidence, arrogance and hubris causing the downfall of a Sith seems to be a recurring theme, a Sith without such flaws is much more dangerous.

[@jeremygeesmothers6379]

"One good act does not undo the bad...nor the bad to good" Stannis Baratheon. Vader was responsible for untold deaths personally (literally by his own hands). I still bothers me that somehow one good act (however good) 'redeems' him.

[@Dunge0n]

@@jeremygeesmothers6379 I would destroy any family you put in front of me to ensure the safety of my own. So would most of the 'heroes' who died in WWI + II. We're human. We're fathers. Brothers. Men. Deal with it or don't.

[@jeremygeesmothers6379]

@@Dunge0n The younglings at the Jedi Temple were hardly such a threat to Anakin. And his force choke of Padme was hardly protecting his family either. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[@xvirez6398]

The fact that both Obi-Wan and Yoda did not trust the Force in the sense that nothing is decided while it exists shows that the ideology of the Jedi Order from the Clone Wars had to be eradicated for there to be balance, as their arrogance had blinded them to the truths of the Force and the uncertainties of the future. As Qui-Gon said in Episode 1, "Be mindful of the future but not at the expense of the moment".

[@munkeefinkelbeen5395]

Something Yoda noticed when offering Qui-Gon a seat on the council, which he ultimately refused. Funny how often those who think they're doing the "right" thing often break their core values in pursuit of the "greater good" 😉

[@talentlessbird3572]

Qui-Gon could see through the lies of the Jedi

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Could you?

[@eho6380]

I hate it that Qui Gon is always a back-ground character in Anakin's redemption, since even after turning into Vader he actually loved Qui-Gon, unlike Obi-wan who he hated. Qui-gon is the father Anakin never had and the only Jedi he felt close to, even after his death he preferred Qui-gon over Obi-wan. That's why Qui-Gon didn't show up to Anakin during Ep.III, if he did he would irritate the Cosmic Force and make an end to the Prophecy of the Chosen One by bringing Anakin back.

[@Steve_P_B]

Exactly, that's why we here Qui Gon's voice crying out when Anakin attacked the sand people in episode II

[@Dunge0n]

He felt close to Yaddle, Ahsoka and other Jedi, they just tended to die or leave, over and over. Which just made him feel like the Force didn't really care about who was 'good'.

[@klaudiagrob]

Obi Wan was only a brother figure but not a father figure.

[@JediAcolyte94]

Qui-Gon wasn't foolish enough to rely on the dogma of the Jedi but look beyond it and trust that the Force and fate itself would prove his point to Obi-Wan. While Obi-Wan was a good person he was still too far entrenched in Jedi teachings to think that Anakin was still there in that dreaded Vader. He would only learn later and posthumously that Qui-Gon was right.

[@JediAcolyte94]

@FFM _ I don't think the Sith are better. But it was only posthumously that Kenobi would learn that Qui Gon was right. Obi-Wan was a good person but to entrenched and to dependent on Jedi beliefs and dogma to form his own perspective on things.

[@TetsuShima]

Qui-Gon saw Anakin as a son, Obi-Wan as the duty he had in order to honor his master's memory and Yoda as clockmaking bomb

[@klaudiagrob]

But still Obi Wan and Anakin became brothers and friends during Clone Wars.

[@phantomsidious2934]

Qui Gon knew that the chosen one prophecy was not eliminated by Vader, but more so delayed, anakins soul would always reawaken and one day destroy the sith. The Vader suit not only kept Vader alive but at the same time contained the true soul of anakin Skywalker, the only way it could be reawakened is by a meeting with his son that started to stir the doubt of Vader's choices and then eventually allowed Anakin to free himself from his prison, mentally and physically to fulfill his true destiny

[@sethwinters3556]

Yeah I've always wondered if the fall of anakin is in fact a part of the prophecy. He caused the fall of the jedi, evening how many force users there were on the dark and light side. Which made the dark side too powerful because of palps, who he subsequently killed. That idea doesn't work much with disney continuity but all these stories are from legends anyways

[@eho6380]

It wasn't delayed, Vader destroyed the Jedi as a part of balancing the Force.

[@g1y3]

Thanks to Disney isn't

[@emanuelstude4912]

@@eho6380 sounds logical. He destroyed the jedi order and the sith order.

[@naseemweathers8358]

Honestly I think if Aniken had been his Padawan he still would’ve fallen to the Darkside Just think about people who grow up in loving non-abusive homes they still in some cases go off the deep end so just because you have a loving person by your side it doesn’t mean that you will always stay on the right path

[@celestialspartan1176]

No matter what Anakin went through, no matter what he became, Qui-Gon never lost faith in him. He could’ve been the father figure that Anakin needed if Maul didn’t kill him.

[@naseemweathers8358]

Even if he had been his Padawan I think he would’ve still turned to the Darkside

[@fishingmasterstudios9481]

@@naseemweathers8358 not really due to Anakin looking up to Qui Gon as a father, which is what he did with Palpatine, if you keep Qui Gon alive, it's likely Anakin would have killed Sidious much earlier

[@grapeshot]

I remember when Anakin Skywalker was re-enacting the Me Lai Massacre Tatooine Style. And Qui Gon was screaming no Anakin no.

[@jmwilliamsart]

He understood that Anakin’s actions were driven by his grief over loosing his mom. Anakin was also driven by blind rage, so in a way he lost control of himself.

[@benherrshlim]

RIP David Prowse, the physically imposing and, from what his colleagues have said, kind and gentle man, whose powerful presence and stiff yet expressive movement (combined with the baritone of James Earl Jones, made menacing) secured Darth Vader's place in our cultural heritage.

[@JanPeverell]

Vader was not the only one Qui-Gon considered redeemable, as we well know. He also earnestly believed that his old master Dooku could return to the light side in Dark Rendezvous.

[@enki6676]

Dooku might've been redeemed I think, had he survived his final encounter with Anakin. He joined Palpatine and became a Sith because he had become disillusioned with the Jedi Order and the corrupt Republic, and the galaxy as a whole, very similar to Anakin in fact, not because he craved personal power and the Dark Side. He also never let the Dark Side take him over fully and never had the yellow Sith eyes, but was very much a man of reason. He only realized what an absolute monster Sidious truly was when he sold him out to Anakin during his final moments.

[@naseemweathers8358]

@@enki6676 exactly moments before his death he realized that he had been nothing but a tool he was never meant to be his true apprentice But even if he had survived I don’t think he would’ve come back to the light side of the force

[@fishingmasterstudios9481]

@@naseemweathers8358 I think he would have come back to the light if he had lived

[@jesusaguilarjr6655]

Qui-Gon could do the one thing the other two could not, place absolute Trust in the force and submit to its will.

[@darthkalis8993]

The basic thing is the Qui-Gon always believed in Anakin that obiwan didnt

[@The_Admiral5]

I have a feeling that Qui Gon foresaw the events of Anakin's redemption through the Force long before the events of the Original Trilogy. In the canon novel From a Certain Point of View, Qui Gon foresaw Obi Wan's death on the Death Star I at the beginning of A New Hope when Luke ran off to the Lars homestead. That's why I think he had so much faith in Anakin even after his fall to the Dark Side.

[@dbs-fs1qz]

That scene from the novel when he was talking to Obi wan and thinking to himself on how little time his former padawan had after the events of the burning homestead in Episode IV got me thinking about Qui Gon having knowledge of future events ahead of time!

[@naseemweathers8358]

@@dbs-fs1qz did you notice how in the novel that he still calls him my Padawan

[@thunderstudent]

Obi-Wan: Wait... did he just kill the Emperor? Yoda: Indeed, bad for us, this is. Suffer for eternity we will. Qui-Gon, An'ya Kuro, and Padme: We were riiiiiight! We were riiiiiight! We were riiiiiight! We were riiiiiight!{they mockingly pointing towards obi-Wan and Yoda while doing a happy dance together} Obi-Wan: Padme, but how-?! Padme: Qui-Gon helped me and Shimi become force ghosts. I told you that there was still good in him! {Continues to dance} Qui-Gon: Weren’t you the one who said “He’s more machine now than man, twisted and evil.” and “ The emperor has already won.“ my dear Padawan? Obi Wan: Yoda didn't help. Yoda: "Confront him you must" said I, and confront him he did. Kill him, I never said. Obi Wan: You know what, I don't have time to argue, I have to go speak to Anakin before he vanishes into the Cosmic Force. {Qui-Gon, An'ya Kuro, and Padme continue to sing and dance mockingly as Shimi joins them}

[@AnAwkwardlyPlacedSausage]

That was cancer

[@AnAwkwardlyPlacedSausage]

@Yoda And yet I still have the right to express it. Disagree all you want you're gonna have to deal with it. If you dont like what I say dont look or leave if it bothers you. Simple as that. You'd think yoda would be wise enough to know something so basic.

[@AndrewMRoots]

@@AnAwkwardlyPlacedSausage That's obviously not the real Yoda, he speaks normally instead of backwards

[@brenster21]

This is downright hilarious, I need this as a webcomic. Maybe it ending with padme pulling anakin away to make up for lost time.

[@HuhJuhWuh]

The jedi order advises against attachment but for young anakin still loved his mother. Qui-gon understand that Anakin needed love to become a good jedi, and that's why he invested everything in padme after his mother died, she was the only one he knew loved him

[@jmwilliamsart]

Exactly, besides Padme Qui Gon knew that Anakin needed love, he needed a family. Unfortunately the Jedi weren’t able to give him the family that he needed, they also never gave him the benefit of the doubt, never trusted him, never gave him the compassion and the support that he needed.

[@OrangeHatReviews]

This lore makes more sense than the inconsistency that is Disney continuity.

[@akumaking1]

Mickey Skaven sucks bantha poodoo

[@allowableman2]

It's a fine piece of lore but it's in a pretty redundant book

[@demonking86420]

@The Cambot but legends doesn't outright declare "this is all absolute canon" but instead gives us a canonicity tier ladder

[@brainywarrior7396]

This is the EU(Legends) after all.

[@ishiahlucas3005]

Well qui-gon thought more humanly then them

[@mikelambsworld4368]

The one true Jedi, Qui Gon was.

[@TerryMcQ79]

Let's think about this logically, Anakin was the chosen 1. He did bring balance to the force by destroying the jedi and the sith.

[@Christian-be6eg]

He didn't really destroy the Jedi and I'm pretty sure that the Sith did come back (Atleast in legends)

[@akumaking1]

@@Christian-be6eg Lady Lumiya, Caedus, and Kratyr

[@Christian-be6eg]

@@akumaking1 Thank you, it's been a while

[@RequiemPoete]

@@Christian-be6eg Except he did destroy the Jedi. Maybe not every member, but The Jedi Order as it had become was destroyed and swept from the board. Luke's new Jedi order was vastly different than the Old Jedi Order. Considering he married in Legends. And in the Disney continuity, I very much doubt what ever Jedi Order rises from the ashes will be the same.

[@Christian-be6eg]

@@RequiemPoete I know, It'd seem that no matter what the Jedi/Sith usually come back (In different ways and styles)

[@Demigod_3scrub]

Such a shame we never got to see Anakin's Force Ghost in the new trilogy talking with luke. What a waste..

[@rodgill9376]

Had Qui-Gon not died, things could had been so different and definitely could/should had been Anakin’s Jedi Master instead of Obi-Wan. Kenobi was just not ready to be a teacher.

[@jeffreyconner2937]

If more jedi had been like quigon. Anakin would not have fallen.

[@jeditemplar4790]

Spirit Qui-Gon Jinn: you still believe you are chosen one.

[@lordofpain3476]

The destruction and slaughter of the jedi taught Yoda and Obi-Wan absolutely nothing . They still carried the same unjustified arrogance that doomed their order in the first place . Qui Gon knew and understood the force and Anakin far better than either one of them , but even though he tried to tell them they still didn't listen . Their arrogance knew no bounds , and their minds knew no wisdom .

[@stauxin91093]

darth vader brough balance by killing the excessive amounts of jedi

[@stauxin91093]

it kind of is what it means, anytime one side gets too strong the opposite rises to meet it and restores balance

[@RequiemPoete]

@@stauxin91093 Not so much the number of Jedi, he brought the downfall of the Jedi Order as an orginization. He also crippled the Sith Order and set the steps for it's future downfall. They'll come back of course, but they won't be as the stagnant orders they were before. In effect, Vader swept the board clean and allowed both orginizations to reset themselves, as well as let other Force Orginizations have a chance to flourish.

[@rabbitsfoot8]

lmao...i see what you did there

[@khodexus4963]

Yeah, I don't buy that Obi-Wan needed to learn to forgive Anakin, he obviously never blamed him for becoming Vader, so how could he hold a grudge against him specifically, especially when he gave up on the idea that Anakin was still in Vader somewhere. If anything, he needed to learn to forgive himself.

[@JamesJones-mt9co]

Qui-Gon Jinn is my favorite Jedi Master because he puts his faith in the living for so much that he is unwavered and because he did that he knew in the end Anakin was going to be all right it is confirmed in the Darth Vader Comics now under Marvel that had Qui-Gon Jinn trained Anakin let's just put it like this he is the best person to train Anakin to bring Anakin to full power answer for him to overcome Darth Vader the part of himself far more quicker than Obi-Wan Yoda and Mace Windu

[@marklee1194]

Qui-Gon Jinn arguably the least dogmatic Jedi in the Order at that time.

[@JamesJones-mt9co]

@@marklee1194 so are you agreeing with me

[@marklee1194]

@@JamesJones-mt9co Yes

[@JamesJones-mt9co]

@@marklee1194 thank you most people don't understand how significant Qui-Gon Jinn is

[@jacquelyynorgana77]

Dammit i miss Qui-gon. Hes one of my fav Jedi. :(

[@vaibhavkumar8133]

I was waiting for a long time for your video

[@AAVVVAAADDAAAKAAADAVRAAA]

Anyone can be redeemed but they have to keep going on that road and not keep hitting road blocks

[@Lowertoaster55]

No one is ever beyond redemption

[@armandjones1634]

Qui Gon should have been on the council and 100% was meant to be Anakin's master. Yoda and all the old heads were stuck in their ways and is exactly why Palpatine rised as he did and their regret is evident in their yrar of the empire show its as they are hunted by the thing thing created.

[@JamesJones-mt9co]

Qui-Gon Jinn was giving a seat on the council but he told him no for two reasons he said one the living Forest told him no because they do not obey him and to he told them all so if I was to take a seat on the council I would miss a great opportunity and that opportunity was discovering the chosen one

[@williamnelson5549]

I wonder how different the jedi order would be if Quigon was Grand Master instead of Yoda

[@gonhunter3994]

Qui-Gon the GOAT!

[@beckybrowand2614]

In the Episode 3 novel and Dark Lord the Rise of Darth Vader explains it a lot even briefly

[@randallpetroelje3913]

Qui Gonn my man. He taught yoda and Ben a thing or two about the force and forgiveness.

[@dylantello8643]

Qui won, in my opinion, is the only actual Jedi in the order.... always listening and following the living force unlike Yoda and the council who sat in coruscant knowing they were blind to the force; also is beyond me why yoda didn’t take a more active role in anakins training; you’re given what’s essentially space Jesus and then let obi wan train him, no disrespect to obi he is one of my favorite characters but is clear that he isn’t ready to train a padawan in the phantom menace, let alone be solely n charge of bringing up the chosen one who is old beyond old when he starts training

[@tf-mr-blue748]

Ashoka too

[@XxDarkoviathxX]

question i have did yoda forgive anakin we never find out what yoda thought of kenobi telling anakin how to become a force ghost or if he approved it to me when i see the scene of the force ghost showing up for luke yoda is turned away from anakin while the others are looking straight on makes me thing yodas shunned anakin

[@jesusluvincognito3630]

Well it's understandable

[@AndrewMRoots]

@@jesusluvincognito3630 I thought Jedi didn't hold grudges

[@oreotink3979]

Obi wan and Yoda didn't understand the role of the chosen one. I think Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the force. Before order 66 the Jedi held most of the power since well their size, numbers, powers and influence. Afterwards the sith had power and influence not numbers since there can only be two. But when anakin killed vader and palpatine, no side held more power. It was balance

[@kimberlymcfadden9010]

Yoda: once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Obi-wan: only a sith deals in absolutes.

[@CiabanItReal]

I left a like for *Interesting Obi-Wan and Qi-Gon scene's*

[@podemosurss8316]

2:26 Not out of hatred to sand?

[@grasshopper-ln9us]

Quigon I believe knew once he transcended that true balance in the force meant both the Jedi and sith needed a hard reset. A balanced Jedi know both sides of the force not going full speed ahead down the path of light or dark

[@benolr64]

Question is there a video talking about Younglings who fail to get their Kyhber Crystal's? I'm asking out of curiosity is all.

[@treavy1]

its you i like there is no person in the world like you and i like you just the way you are you made this day a special day by just you being you and the best person you can ever be is your honest self! keeping us up to date on facts and storys of star wars is awesome and i also do believe that people change there ways and fully support people changing there ways wit positive love and hope and i hope everyone can be reddemed!

[@kseniaboytseva4714]

Yes, Qui-Gon would be better suited to him not only as a father. Or better yet, he prepared Anakin as a grey Jedi. Since he really was not suitable for an ordinary order in character. He would really understand him, listen to him, support him. Maybe then Vader wouldn't have got into the habit of throwing somewhere his teachers somewhere who couldn't cope with his training earlier)).

[@Anileos_]

Anyone know the music in the background?

[@johnamezcua7414]

Juan-gui jin and obi-juan Kenobi

[@klaudiagrob]

Yes Qui Gon believed in Anakin's redemption. Obi Wan and Yoda didn't because they saw what Anakin did.

[@dragonborn5558]

I love how everyone in Star Wars talks about Darth Vader and Anakin as two different people but it also sucks as it weakens Anakin's redemption since talking about Vader and Anakin as two different people makes Vader's action sound separate from Anakin's

[@KaptainOW]

Yes and no. Anakin probably would’ve gone insane after ROTS had Vader not taken over. Vader was crafted by Anakin’s mind as an escape. Vader IS a different person, but Anakin is and was always inside of him. That’s why Vader, especially in the new canon still loves Padme

[@dragonborn5558]

I could see that being the in universe reason but it just feels weird you know

[@dancingshark6032]

So obi wan can forgive darth maul but not darth Vader

[@RyanTheDark]

Yes. Now thinking about it, I like the theory that Qui-Gon allow Maul to kill him.

[@mxshred9269]

If u watched the mandalorian behind the scenes or whatever it is called. Where Dave Filoni and other directors talk a about Star Wars. Dave Filoni talks about how Qui-Gon was the father figure for Anakin and when the lightsaber battle begin it was the fate of the child. That is why the score is called duel of the fates.

[@carsonsmith8184]

Further demonstrates how far out of touch the Jedi had become.

[@andrewpaige1194]

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!! So Obi Wan FOUND the bit of force that Anakin’s soul had turned into, and was able to separate it from the rest of the force???? Is that only because he had JUST died? I got the impression that in the Star Wars universe, if u didn’t already have the steps to just KEEP ur soul from truly joining with the force, then ur soul and individuality would just dissolve away into the greater force! Does that mean that even those who can’t become force ghosts, still have their individuality... somewhere? Like an afterlife? I thought there was no real afterlife there(unless u specifically knew how to keep ur mind separate), and it was just a huge mindless mass of life energy that new souls were recycled from. Does that mean that any of the force ghosts could go into the “force”, and separate, or find, anyone from the past? I always wished all the jedi we knew and loved were able to be force ghosts, and didn’t just disappear, so I love the idea that they still have individuality, somewhere, and could easily be brought “back”

[@brenster21]

So there are a few different versions of this scene that each have their own interpretation. In one interpretation anakin dies and he retains his individuality with the force cause he is the chosen one so it auto works for him. Though the other one is that obi-wan upon seeing anakin dying after saving his family, goes to him and offers to teach him how to become a force ghost as his body is shutting down.

[@TheOneWhoSouls1405]

Qui-Gon: trust me guys, he can still be brought back Yoda: insane, you are. *after Vader is redeemed* Qui-Gon: 😏 Yoda:😶 Obi-wan: 😀

[@reynaldoreyesmartell2835]

Did Qui-Gon also believe dooku could be redeemed?

[@cambuxton6835]

Maybe 🤷‍♀️

[@jagdeishwarmagendran3395]

why not make a video on why many sith lords choose to add darth infront of their names ?

[@darthvader6845]

Cuz it sounds cool

[@jagdeishwarmagendran3395]

@@darthvader6845 no. There is a reason to the name or title of Darth. It means Dark Lord and something else in Legends. And why many sith Lords choose that name.

[@Steve_P_B]

Sounds like someone is using Stephen Hawking's voice emulater

[@wut-dah_7212]

Why did Qui Gon have to die? 😩

[@akumaking1]

Qui-Gon Jinn was the best Jedi until Luke post-Endor.

[@julianadeau5797]

Well, considering the fact that Qui Gon had fallen to the Dark Side, but had been redeemed into the light, I would consider Qui Gon to be fully aware of Anakin's potential redemption.

[@Lerna_Arier]

When and where?

[@jesusluvincognito3630]

Yes when and where

[@lightningdragon3033]

Anakin never does bring balance to the force Luke was a light side force user and at the time sidious was dead there for no dark side user. You need both for balance not just one