Did Sub-Zero Actually Got BUFFED Or NERFED? A Message For The MK DEVS From Stark

[@SlasherrxX]

I’m actually so disappointed as a sub zero main it’s just getting worse and worse out here

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Like... Seriously if they didn't change anything about the ice clone from before and then gave us these buffs it would be amazing

[@Nio-i4x]

The funny part is both non sub and sub mains still think it’s a buff😂

[@BBL-Diddyy]

Yep, as other characters come out stronger and stronger and even older characters get actual buffs, Sub just continues to either get nerfed or given useless buffs

[@Krod1995]

They never cared to give him what he deserves. They understand how dangerous he is when a good experience player knows how to play with him. The buffed didn't do anything and sub zero needs to be mega buffed where he scales on his own without a kameo

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Damage is not even a problem for me tbh... It's hit buttons and ice ball

[@Gamerintriguingupdates.007]

@@StarK_Takahashiyou mean you want subzero to Able to hit and cancel into freezing an opponent?

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@Gamerintriguingupdates.007 yeah just like mk11 or mkx when ice ball was a combo extender

[@Gamerintriguingupdates.007]

@ true.. mk sub can’t combo without meter and yet when he does his damage sucks

[@toper997]

@@StarK_TakahashiThis!!

[@d4m0n87]

in every single mk game you could slide under projectiles which are high on reaction because it started with the down input now slide you have to randomly use or use it as a combo ender. its pathetic. Ice ball too went from a threatening asset to subzero in all games to a pathetic projectile which is easier to dodge than like 90% of projectiles. Finally he has no real mix up unless you have a kameo and no good projectile without a kameo meaning that you can only use like 1/4 of the kameos if you want to play subzero in higher ranks. #buffbihan

[@StarK_Takahashi]

#BuffSubzero fr

[@asadnaushad3962]

100% i agree with whatever u have mentioned. Tbh, i am not really happy with changes that has been implemented. It would have better if they just revert back to old subzero.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@Terminated_Account]

NRS hates Sub-Zero. They gave this so people shut up and nothing else

[@StarK_Takahashi]

💀

[@talos4702]

If you want NRS to see this, you gotta tweet this to them, because these are really good points ands it’s the best way to communicate to them directly. I also think you’re the only person shedding light on the fact that sub can’t combo off Forward 1 Ice clone. And how he can no longer combo from 2:23. Great video.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@talos4702 I have already made a tweet about this video bro... If you would like to repost the link to my twitter is in the vid's description

[@TheNikolaYo]

They just hate sub zero,or they are afraid of what casuals and scrubs will say,you know they call sub zero op,on those lower ranks,and it's ridiculous that they listen to scrubs instead of high lvl players.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@TheNikolaYo yeah that's kinda true

[@Trustjoeywheeler]

Best answer: it was a rework to Sub in the latest patch General answer to us Sub Mains: it was a nerf in the latest patch. We didn’t ask for any of that. They’re turning Sub into some kind of trick shot specialist. Reworking how we play him while taking away so much viability from him. Taking away our standard F12 into ice Klone from corner. Where’s the logic?

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Exactly

[@the_ed2274]

Ngl, as a sub zero player, I dont even care about a damage buff at this point. Just please give bro a viable launcher, faster ice ball and fix the ice clone hit box. People will down 1 the ice clone's leg and not be frozen and you have to work a little harder to use mid screen and in the corner for combos.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Exactly my point

[@GamerGuyOG]

They buffed the shit out of Scorpion and kept taking away from Sub. The favoritism is disgusting

[@StarK_Takahashi]

They buffed all the low tiers but kept sub the same way

[@coneys_plushies_are_gaming6612]

This was a nerf in my opinion because the ice klone no longer hits a opponents during a combo. For example after mileena I would usually do b2 j21 and then the clone and then probably do a safe jump set up. But now it misses and I can’t do that so I would have to do j12 instead of j21 if I want to do the setup. And for some reason ice clone no longer freezes when you do f12 in the corner and it just misses. And the ice clone’s cooldown being increased makes it slightly harder to keep pressure. I haven’t watched the video yet but these are just my thoughts before.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

I have mentioned all these points you said in the video... Every sub main feels the same

[@DelsonZX]

As someone that mained sub zero day one, the bad in this patch outweigh the good. It’s cool we have new combo routes but it’s not what we asked for and on top of that, nerfing the cooldown on ice klone took away a lot of pressure capabilities for him. I just want moves to be less unsafe and for ice ball to be faster like you said in the video. It makes no sense everyone has quick projectiles and sub has to eat them cuz his shit is slow

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@DelsonZX exactly my point brother

[@parker_1196]

I think the ice clone couldown need to be something like 7 or 9 seconds, 5 seconds is stupid anoying, feels like peacemaker eagle but combo. Its probably the most safe move in the game and I agree with change the speed of the ice ball is slow as fuck and of course he still having a mid fast proyectile with no bar so xd

[@StarK_Takahashi]

The ice clone cooldown is not 10 seconds which is absurd

[@mckellardenzyl]

Yessir! This is what needs to happen. If they give us what we want in what you've said in the video, I wouldn't be much too concerned about the damage scaling lol.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Yeah

[@KZA.47]

4:36 14 hits for 28%, imagine if it was scorpion or really anyone else, the damage would be at least 30/35% minimum if that ...

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@KZA.47 true

[@toxicjoshua7934]

The downplay after this patch needs to end. Your point about Sub-Zero needs a kameo to be good, 100% agree, here’s the problem with your take, it’s a kameo game. Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, hell even scorpion as much as I hate him, he drops a lot of tiers without a kameo The Ice Klone is better then ever. You can now Klone back and throw a Klone punch or an ice ball without being punished, yeah the timer thing kinda sucks but if they kept the timer the same then the ice Klone would be way too strong, by the time it would’ve disappeared, his next Klone would’ve been charged and ready The slide buff being able to switch sides is a good buff for Kameos like Sonya and Janet and 14% wake up slide is decent too. And if any of you think “I don’t know what I’m talking about” I play Sub, he’s my second main, stop the downplay, no one is bad in this game.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

You completely missed the point where I mentioned all the nerfs given to ice clone... For that triple clone combo extender we sacrificed our meterless launcher and wakeup Armor break setups as well... They just kept ice clone the same way and added these buffs I would have said nothing

[@lucianoarguello3283]

Thanks for this, man. At this point, I really believe that the NRS balancing team has something against Sub.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

😭

[@apexorslab]

Anybody know why the NRS team doesn't like Sub-Zero? I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but if we say that Sub-Zero is Chinese, he's not the only Chinese in the game. Do features like ice and cold remind them of Russia, what is it, why do they exclude one of the most popular characters so much? Why is Sub-Zero disliked and always shown as a weak, loser?

[@StarK_Takahashi]

We have no idea bro

[@RAIKON80]

The fact that the ice ball isn't patched to this day is eye opening. how can he have the slowest projectile in the game?? for the love of everything... he is sub-zero and he cant even freeze anyone... not even during combos... ridiculous, absurd.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Seeing one of the iconic moves of mk like that is really embarassing

[@RAIKON80]

... And don't get me started about sub-zero specials... Ice ball and vapors are trash... Ice ball: slow start-up, slow travel speed. Ice vapors: trash special, give me ground freeze. Overhand: slow and predictable... Specially because the majority of Sub Zero combos start with this move... Overall very limited character.

[@Synical02]

After playing sub for a bit recently cause I mained him at launch I can say. 1. Give the ice ball all faster start up, and recovery and make it bigger , and ex should be comboable. 2. Ice Klone Charge should go full screen. 3. Personal Change id like to see Give Harmful heel a secondary route that ends like the Arctic hammer Idm the ice ball being slow, and catching people off guard. Tbh mk needs to move away from the spear, and ice ball being free stuns it's just sped gameplay, and promotes annoying ass long distance abuse. I liked mk11 Scorpion a LOT, and the way his kit flowed nicely.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@davilleturner8387]

INTRO NEVER GETS OLD100%!

[@damianstarks3338]

Read my mind !

[@StarK_Takahashi]

😉

[@torezgermy2]

I agree with you stark as a fellow sub main.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

🫡

[@fentanylmcflurry5633]

the slide change is nice but i have so much muscle memory for the old one its taking some getting used too

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@fentanylmcflurry5633 yeah it'll take sometime to get used to it lol

[@TheKingwalker22]

Thats what its called

[@fentanylmcflurry5633]

@TheKingwalker22 what lol

[@timpike8559]

I’m actually very upset about the fact we cant Do ice clone in the corner.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@timpike8559 that was really important for subzero fr

[@Nio-i4x]

_Also I don’t know if it’s just me but I’m pretty sure they made his air kick special move unsafe on block now_

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Dive kick?

[@Nio-i4x]

@@StarK_Takahashi yea his air special move I forgot what it’s called

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@Nio-i4x dive kick was always unsafe if it lands on the head

[@Nio-i4x]

@@StarK_Takahashi oh alright

[@oldmanfgc]

I see a lot of people commenting about F12~Klone combos midscreen and corner. They're still there, you just gotta take different routes, but the combos and damage remain.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

F12 ice clone doesn't work in the corner anymore as a starter

[@oldmanfgc]

@@StarK_Takahashi You have to go into Vapors before Klone now, true, but the meterless combo is still there, with similar damage, so it's just a change, not a nerf.

[@DBearIt]

Yeah I don’t understand why they would take away few good things he had. The clone cool down time is very noticeable. My timing and everything feels off. It’s ok some characters can just spam attacks right? lol it’s crazy wht some can do

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@hafezabdulrazak5741]

I am afraid to say that right now, he’s useless without a kameo. I have been using Sonya since the launch.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

That's what I said in the video that he's so much kameo dependent

[@sik_speedforce3546]

For me the answer is both, clone is way more effective and the new triple clone is great for baiting armor. But I also find myself asking "damn can get my clone back real quick?" Because the cooldown time throws me off now

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@hosseinnoroozi4877]

yeah, honestly since the release of this patch I haven't used any of the new buffs in a real match, cuz to much for to little and also as you said sub lost some of his good features as well, I really don't now why they don't give subzero some real buffs I means he really can be a solid top 5 characters in mk1

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@adrianfelix4518]

Sure they made ice ball slightly more relevant for use by being able to ice clone after freezing with ice ball but the scaling is abs INSANE if you just do a simple one bar bnb with sub(typical combo like from pre-patch) you can easily get above 35% but say you trade with ice ball and then go into that same exact bnb you're losing 5%+ because of the damage scaling. I feel like if they fix ANYTHING for sub, it should be his reduce the damage scaling for his ice ball and ground freeze.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

But who's getting hit by that slow ass ice ball that's the question😭

[@adrianfelix4518]

@StarK_Takahashi You could occasionally catch someone at full screen and dash in for a full combo, but when I was labbing that scenario I was using a BNB that does 35% and with starting with ice ball it went down to barely 29% and I was just like "damn they made this route possible but unwanted"

[@KMEnix280]

I agree with your suggested changes. I wouldn’t mind if they reverted his current changes and just gave him a meterless launcher and a faster F12 string. The new combo route doesn’t change his underlying issues

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@toper997]

Imo sub was better before this patch. F12 ice clone in corner was diabolical…

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Fr... It was really useful

[@damionbaxter4912]

Iceball should be 25 frames, which is the minimum acceptable speed. The second slowest projectile is Tanya's at 24, I believe. Which means that even with a read sub, is not able to counter zone.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

If we trying to compare projectiles with Tanya we should also compare the range of her normals haha

[@Mr.Nooorthmemphis10]

Its both.. he's been getting nerfed every single patch😭😭

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Lol

[@theunpredictable7477]

I lost 3 matches in a row because of his stupid ice clone cooldown

[@StarK_Takahashi]

That affected a lot man seriously

[@skull_reviews4964]

Skill issue 💀

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@skull_reviews4964 looked cool? Feeling happy?

[@DBearIt]

Yeah 10 seconds! Maybe like 7 but 10 why change it tht much? I get little adjustment cuz it stays out longer now

[@TheKingwalker22]

​@@DBearItare you serious?

[@robkennedy5906]

You're right, I think Sub is easier to use now to new players. But I think it's a need overall.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@robkennedy5906 sub was always an easy character to use I guess

[@Average_Eggman]

they want him to zone but his projectile is shit and the clone attack isnt full screen. his slide cant be used on reaction either and his mixup is only with a kameo. despite these problems they touched the ice clone and made it so purposeless that the only factor it plays is cool factor. even if you do the mixup with the triple clone, ppl will just armor or react at the overhead

[@StarK_Takahashi]

That's true... Calling subzero a zoner character is straight bs

[@СергейМолчанов-к7т]

Thank you so much, you helped me play with cameos, and do combos, now I'm stronger.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Welcome brother

[@michaelgalante4308]

Yeah I agree with all these points. I just don’t see them making ice ball combo able. Since deadly vapors is just the combo tool. Which is a bummer. Hopefully they do the other things tho

[@StarK_Takahashi]

We need something as a meterless launcher... Either make df4 completely meterless or make ice ball comboable

[@weavel938]

One issue I have with Sub-Zero is his lackluster of ground combos with needing vapor and how you need to be more ariel to deal more damage. I also dislike how many gabs does he have in his combos.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

That's why we are asking for a meterless launcher which is jump cancellable

[@Darkshogun7584]

Let’s just make him back to pre-launch beta version and problems solved

[@StarK_Takahashi]

That would be crazy

[@WatchMeWhiff]

A friendly criticism, not hate, i watch tons of your videos. Before you send this in or tweet them, add subtitles

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@WatchMeWhiff I am pretty sure yt automatically generates the subtitles after a few hours Edit : the subtitles are already there generated by yt

[@feline_luv]

@@StarK_Takahashi Generated subtitles usually aren't the most accurate.

[@feline_luv]

❄Sub-Zero deserves better. :< ❄

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Fr

[@Gotdeity]

I'm using the same team as you your video helped out a lot

[@StarK_Takahashi]

That's good to hear bro

[@RichwoodCman_5]

Only real ones know about the tekken music🙏🏾

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Yessir

[@Nio-i4x]

Holy shit it’s unc🪵

[@kowx8649]

Do you think that Sub 0 can immediately connect EX DB4 after J12 or J21 in the midscreen would be good or not?

[@StarK_Takahashi]

He can do J21 ex db4 but only in some combos

[@kowx8649]

@StarK_Takahashi Well. Do you want it to be more consistent

[@bihansiceclone]

We need beta Sub

[@Nio-i4x]

For real also love your pfp😂

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Fr

[@BenTower17]

Few buffs for a lot of nerfs 👍 I 100% agree and would go further and say they need to make him more plus frames in certain moves too 👍 Way I see it is NRS never truly got him right from day 1 but then made it worse rather that give certain moves a total rebuild. Great video though 🥳👍

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True man if not give him a plus frame normal at least give him a plus frame sweep like d4 or d3

[@JFalconer91_YT]

They shouldve kept him as Beta Sub-zero!! That version he was OP !

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@wesleyherman6307]

💯 still dependent on kameos way too much

[@StarK_Takahashi]

True

[@ВадимКа-ы8г]

Meterless launcher = BF3 using Sonya, Kamelion or anyone else who can hold target mid-air for a while.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

BF3 is unsafe as hell you can't call it a meterless launcher.... Again meterless launcher means something that you can use to convert on your own without being dependent on kameos

[@ВадимКа-ы8г]

@ yup, it needs kameo support. But it is pretty easy to confirm using F12 and 21 strings. Give it a try :-)

[@СергейМолчанов-к7т]

Have you been to any mk1 tournaments on sub-zero?

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Nope... We got no tournaments in India

[@salahuddin-al-ayubbi1]

BRO IS SPITTING FACTS OUTTA HIS MOUTH

[@StarK_Takahashi]

We speak facts here haha

[@damianstarks3338]

Happy Saturday morning to you

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Happy Saturday bro

[@This_is_him]

If you say it's a nerf, it's a nerf.... OBEY YOUR GRANDMASTER

[@StarK_Takahashi]

👀

[@KahnzTV]

What exactly does subzero need? To be honest I’m not against subzero but I’ve never seen an entire playerbase complain so consistently for so long. I am wondering what are his flaws and what he needs to be satisfactory for you folks Edit : watched the video, I think the cooldown change was pretty stupid but I will still say I think a lot of this character’s issues aren’t as bad as a lot of the players make it out to be. A slow iceball balances with the fact it launches without a kameo. Even at full screen you can use a kameo to launch with it. Also a 10f mid would be ridiculous 😂😂 I think you’re perfectly fine with the mid being 14f instead of 15. A 10f mid is a johnny level mid, and considering the fact you have a now launching low special that can be made safe with kameos that definitely seems like overkill. Just my opinion though, I wouldn’t cry if he got buffed anyway. Liked the video 🤙🏽

[@StarK_Takahashi]

You can't make the slide safe anymore unless you are not using his optimal kameos who are Kham sareena... If you use any other kameo besides these sub already loses a lot of utility because he got nothing of his own

[@GlitchRealm]

Stephanie has something to do with

[@StarK_Takahashi]

She hates subzero ngl

[@CooperGlidewell]

Who is your favorite character besides Sub-zero,Kenshi,And Scorpion

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Ermac

[@MK_ItsLinKuei]

He's more swaggy than before with his combos slightly more damage but still the same. But idc anymore Bro Ermac is too much fun im grinding and learning him a lot instead

[@StarK_Takahashi]

I also wanna learn ermac so bad haha

[@MK_ItsLinKuei]

@ just give him a try

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@MK_ItsLinKuei I did and moved from 2000 kasual leaderboard to 13000 kasual leaderboard😂😂

[@MK_ItsLinKuei]

@ lmao

[@xX-SilasXx]

Ehhh , can’t say no to your suggested buffs Nerf sub

[@StarK_Takahashi]

YOU SMOKE MAIN

[@Nio-i4x]

There were some leaked patch notes recently that said that smoke no longer has his knife, no longer has his powers, and will no longer be in the game until further notice🤔

[@xX-SilasXx]

@ it’s basically like that😭

[@fgiantricks4052]

i think the buffs are bad orientated i think subzero worst weaknesess are the gaps in almost every string and his veeery big scalling combos making only 2 routes optimal and very kameo dependent , dont get me wrong the ice clone hitbox buff and now with the slide change are good improvements but not as substantial as changing those critical flaws on his gameplay

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Ice clone offers only multiple freezes right now... The hitbox is reduced

[@Real_KAIJU]

Ice clone change was not needed

[@StarK_Takahashi]

The buff they gave to the ice clone was needed but not the nerfs

[@draickx]

Is not a good buff. Only good thing is now he can use the sub or frost cameo. But he's still not really good with them anyway

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Yeah

[@DaSpongeThoughts]

I agree with subzero needing better buffs and definitely some changes but I definitely find subzero annoying, just me personally. Especially when trash cans play him. I also think that most sub zero mains down play him wayyy to much and use it as an excuse when you lose. 9/10 times for me atleast when I run into sub with a mic or in a koth and I beat them it’s always “man this character is ass” or “I’m on sub -_- this character is terrible”. And it’s the same thing if I lose to a subzero, “how do you lose to a sub” but it’s just my opinion and I am curious to hear other people’s opinions.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Blaming your character for losing is a loser's play... But he definitely needs buffs because he's weak

[@EnriqueECG2004]

Is there a page where we can show our disagreement with this new patch? Just in case netherRealms sees our opinions.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

There's no page for that

[@akumasrevenge240]

This is why I play noob now I think he’s a better character all round

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@akumasrevenge240 yeah that's true

[@ironboyjunior8509]

they need to nerf his stupid ice clones and make it so that every ice clone costs one bar because noobs misuse it too much. all three ice clones should cost three bars. his damage should be buffed and he should be better on his own as well

[@fire7istace84]

1/10 ragebait but good try

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Bro chill

[@DaSpongeThoughts]

Definitely agree with the noobs part, they all do D1 D1 into ice clone or D1 into ice clone or wake up ice clone lmao

[@mckellardenzyl]

Sub-Zero is already low-tier and even more with recent patch. So no fcken way are we gonna spend 3 bars for 3 ice-clones just to get 20% output in damage. The real noobs here are the ones that keep getting baited into the ice-clones. Go practice more bro. Reply

[@Stan_tsung]

Ice clone got buffed

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Buffed and nerfed at the same time

[@KeeganRutter-vi5wd]

Ngl nerf real stark

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Bro 😭😭

[@lukascore8433]

FINALLYYYY

[@StarK_Takahashi]

👀

[@PLaStiiCMoNtAGE]

professional cryer and complainer lmao

[@skull_reviews4964]

Ikr lmao 😂

[@StarK_Takahashi]

Well it's your opinion I'll say nothing about it... As I said in the video you are free to think otherwise

[@SirCapyTheSecond]

i can smell the curry from your voice 🧑‍🌾

[@StarK_Takahashi]

What accent?

[@SirCapyTheSecond]

@@StarK_Takahashi i cant watch without subtitles bro 🙏

[@StarK_Takahashi]

@@SirCapyTheSecond so turn on the subtitles tf

[@SirCapyTheSecond]

@@StarK_Takahashi i did

[@TylerFinch-n9s]

There’s nothing wrong with Sub zero. Just his iceball that sucks.

[@StarK_Takahashi]

And the unnecessary nerf they gave to the ice clone this patch

[@TylerFinch-n9s]

@ yes absolutely that. they could maybe make his overhead a frame or so faster, but other than that I think he’s a pretty solid cast member, especially with khameleon. he’s just very kameo dependent, like some of the cast