Did they make the Lance Worse in MH Wilds?

[@nioi]

Similar criticisms to what the Japanese community are saying. Although they don't share any of your optimism

[@Alexssxs]

For me it is loss of mobility, as in short distance of guard dash and leaping thrust, and low starting speed of lance charge. As of clanky, it is mainly how hard it is to get a clean power guard/guard dash, as in you do not do a guard first; and end lag of many of our attack seems long.

[@Gobuls_Lantern]

After the absolute shenanigans of guard dash and leaping thrust in sunbreak the moves 100% deserved some form of nerf, but i agree the loss of mobility really hurts. Leaping thrust would still be a great move if it did regular mid thrust damage, but with the world/rise mobility. Nerfing the moves mobility on the other hand really really hurts.

[@Tech_D3mon]

Yeah that's pretty much my problems with it too

[@Fluxikator]

​@@Gobuls_Lantern have you tested or though about how the seikret factors into that equation? And how it and the jousting attack maybe could be used to cover longer distances (longer than a guarddash->leaping thrust combo) quickly?

[@TornaitSuperBird]

@@FluxikatorJousting attack on Seikret is not viable damage *at all*.

[@kevs94]

@@Fluxikator Given how unresponsive the Seikret AI can be and the clunkiness of having to hold Up mid battle, I don't think this is particularly viable. Not to mention the point of guard dash -> leaping thrust wasn't to cover super long distances, it was more the medium length ones where the monster was just slightly out of range.

[@Ananomos]

I changed Focus mode to toggle on the lance and it feels like there is no reason to play without it active. You can do everything in focus mode and it makes it easier to move and attack at the same time and then you have immediate access to the Focus mode attack.

[@madestro]

I feel the same way but muscle memory kept me trying to sheathe and instead doing the focus move lol

[@Swordphobic]

@@madestro And that is why I changed my key bindings so that doesn't happen.

[@dregnoff9361]

Same Feels weird when u run past and wanna do the turn around slap

[@PiotrWemhoff]

they should have designed the game around toggled on focus mode. there is no reason, for every weapon, to switch between these modes except adding more buttons to press.

[@yaelcarrasquillo1675]

I did the same, for lance.

[@PersnapsPartDeux]

Im fine with lance playing differently, however i am not ok with it not even playing like lance. Lance is supposed to be a mobile, precision based tanky and agressive weapon, and it has been since the very first iterations in the series. This lance plays like a lumbering, slow weapon where you try to build up charge for your big hitters or wait for the monster to do something so you can get those big hits off. So basically, they turned the lance into an imitation greatsword. Me and many other people play this weapon because we love the fast paced, high agression with the utility of being able to target specific parts of a monster and shrug off bigg ass hits, turning them into an opportunity. This lance just does not do that

[@titan6062]

You guys are all on crack I swear, what are you talking about?

[@analyticHeart]

This is exactly my opinion! I'm fine with people liking the new lance, that's really just a matter of personal preference, but I'm of the opinion that a slow lance isn't the lance at all. The lance's fantasy is supposed to be non-stop aggression, hence it's variety of low commitment attacks with great defensive options, counters, and high sticking power with it's mobility. With wilds, the lance lost its mobility, gained more commitment/end lag on attacks, and lost the counter stance. It doesn't feel like the weapon I love at all.

[@kDallas_]

Exactly

[@scipocelah6677]

It literally did that for me though?

[@PersnapsPartDeux]

@@scipocelah6677 zamn good for you then. I been replaying rise and world and it made me hate the wilds one even more tbh

[@colatoxic4409]

Your optimism could be valid if not for the fact that there are weapons that keep all the fun things in the previous entries, so players don’t have to change their play style at all while getting even stronger new flashy move. Meanwhile, we get this half ass overhaul that changes our play style, breaks our power fantasy, and is nowhere close in comparison to some weapons. Like, we have to poke exactly three times to get our counter, while the longsword has its counter available in almost every given move and has a even stronger follow attack (successful counter or not). Also, there is no way they will make any changes to the moveset based on feedback from the open beta test within the time frame of three months. Maybe a future DLC, but definitely not the main game at launch.

[@bowserfriend]

the fact they changed normal guard to 3 paths of counters makes it FAR too different since payback thrust moves you too far forward, the dash is too awkward to actually use on normal attacks being only useable vs ranged attacks, and the mid thrust is just underhwelming

[@laythalsibai9848]

While I agree they won’t change the move set, maybe they could up the motion values of the pokes. Because I do agree restricting our strongest moves behind such a commitment and the strongest move being a long sword counter where u have to press the input the same time as the attack is stupid, maybe upping the damage or the pokes to make the fourth option seem like a bonus for having an opening than a requirement to compete with far easier weapons, would in my opinion make the weapon more tolerable😮‍💨

[@marcusaaronliaogo9158]

The statement about it being unchanged aged poorly

[@PetalousPanoply]

The triangle and circle thing doesn't really apply to SnS and Insect Glaive either. The lateral combo for SnS is the weapon's strongest basic combo and uses circle; Tornado Slash, which used to be the Glaive's strongest finisher, is also mapped to circle.

[@sethyboy0]

Also hunting horn. The stronger regular attacks are Y + B and the individual buttons are simpler attacks besides flourish. Come to think of it CB also has its powerful moves on everything but Y. The Y moves are more simple though I guess.

[@wandeezpso2114]

Same for hammer, gunlance can’t be measured since it separate shelling. So yeah the triangle = strong theory is not true and actually has no reason to be imo.

[@RomanGuro]

@@sethyboy0 "Y" more vertical, "B" more horizontal attacks. and this where they mess with the Lance.

[@soulsilver8127]

I also disagree with “less damage for switch axe” too, you literally attack twice or even 4 times for the price of 1 attack of sword gauge, I’d say that’s powerful

[@Trolzzor]

Its also different for hammer. I feel like B/Circle is the heavy attack (Or heavy commitment) button and Y/Triangle is the light attack (or light commitment) button, in general that is for most weapons.

[@aromaticity9150]

I think the button mapping thing doesn't really seem like an issue to me at all, but also contrary to what is said in the video the triple thrust finisher is on triangle and the charge counter is on circle. The biggest issue I had with Lance in the demo is how much harder it felt to stay where you wanted to be in relation to the monster compared to other games. A key aspect of the feel of Lance is the precision & control of the weapon. You can park where you want and stay there and keep hitting precisely where you want to. However, in Wilds it feels very hard to do this innately. The most obvious example of this is Payback Thrust, which moves you forward a ton compared to how much the old power guard circle followup did. Even regular thrusts feel like they move you forward more. Finally, moves like the dash attack feel slow to start up and guard advance & leaping thrust also feel clunkier than in prior games. Focus mode and the steps on mid thrust (particularly back step) help alleviate this issue, but IMO that doesn't feel good. It feels like the optimal way to play is to just be in Focus mode all the time, which.. I'm not really a fan of. Similarly, making us move forward more on attacks but we can hold back when we attack to counteract that just doesn't feel good - instead of giving new movement options, it's more like a fix for a problem that didn't exist before. I am hearing from other weapon mains that the 'slowness' is not just reserved for Lance, so I'm thinking that maybe this is just a overall game design change? Obviously I'd rather it be more like World/Rise in that regard but I think in the end it's not a dealbreaker or anything. But I do think it goes too far for moves like payback thrust, guard advance, & leaping thrust. I did enjoy playing Lance in the beta, just to make it clear.

[@niwdlab14]

yea, CB uses discharge (stronger) attacks leaning on the circle button, as well as IG and SnS strong attacks, not really an issue and weak/strong button isn't shared with all weapons.

[@spidudetoo1212]

The regular mid thrust pokes do move you forward more if you press forward while doing them, even out side of focus mode. But you can remain stationary by not moving the stick, or even move backwards with each thrust. This also alters how fast the moves come out

[@Felipe-oe5su]

You nailed it, great comment Everything I loved about Lance in Rise is missing in Wilds: cirurgical pokes and a rewarding perfect block

[@SpacedogD]

3:57 hard disagree it was always the other way around. Circle attack is the stronger button, triangle is the normal button. E.g. hammer's big bang on circle. Lance's high poke on circle. Switch axe's sword heaven's flurry on circle, wildswing on circle. Circle has always been the "strong attack" button from my experience with MH.

[@1brushstudio]

Yeah, the Swaxe example in particular made no sense, and it was just a really odd argument in any case.

[@MansMan42069]

Greatsword: "Are you sure about that?"

[@TheAjmos]

@@MansMan42069 light and strong attack are the wrong way to describe them. It’s more like triangle is attack and circle is special attack.

[@1brushstudio]

I was very dissapointed with lance - especially the overly slow, clunky animations and the ridiculous amount of chip damage even with all Perfect Guards. Now, the chip damage will probably not be a big issue once we get some Guard/Guard Up (and eventually Health augments), but I'm quite worried that Capcom once again overesrimates how powerful the shield part is in the Lance kit. After really loving the Lance in 5th Gen, I am looking more at GL to be honest, but hopefully the release version of Lance will be awesome - making all the worrying a moot point.

[@RedHornSSS]

Yep. Now that Lance is as clunky as GL. Might as well just strap a gun on it and use GL

[@aromaticity9150]

Just noting that Guard Up traditionally has no impact on chip damage, it just sets a flag on whether you can guard unblockables or not. The exception is Rise, where Guard Up gave forced increased chip damage that overwrote the normal chip damage calculation.

[@sahave5042]

@@RedHornSSSgunlance is not clunky in this

[@RedHornSSS]

@sahave5042 I know. Further motivating my shift lol

[@Morrneyo]

As a lancer, there is no reason to play lance in this state. Clunky, slow, weak.

[@cdchai]

The end lag on leaping thrust is pretty disgusting so looping it like we did in Rise/Sunbreak is not feasible especially since it's now only 2 hits instead of 3. I found myself having to mash buttons to get inputs to come out. This was with no DLSS / framegen, using 1080/900/720p resolutions, getting 40-60 fps. A large part of fluidity and execution were missing for me because of this. The moveset did feel sluggish coming from Rise and the constant need to use focus mode to readjust pokes was annoying.

[@LancerNobu]

Overhaul i really like this lance. My wishes they still fix in the main game are: ->Allowing us to cancel the follow up rush into the twin finishing thrust much faster ->perfect guard follow up attacks need to do more damage than the power guard ones ->mid and high thrust should just do the same damage ->speed up the guard advance and none speed boosted charge a bit ->an overhaul motion value buff since it is lagging behind other weapons a bit ->maybe up the guard level we get from peret guard a bit. Dont know hard to tell by just looking at 4 monsters. -> give us drill attacks. I honestly think this version of lance isnt even flashy

[@Swordphobic]

Wouldn't that make power guard almost useless?

[@LancerNobu]

@Swordphobic well you cant perfect guard multihit attacks, not only that but power guard gets a damage boost depending on the number of hits you block with it, just 1 hit and it does the same damage as perfect guard. It also blocks 360°and is easier to use since you dont have to time it

[@Swordphobic]

@@LancerNobu I'm a bit on the other side, found perfect guard too easy to trigger and too poweful, would rather power guard keep the damage because its a strategic commitment s it immobilizes and drains stamina fast.

[@LancerNobu]

@@Swordphobic but in that case perfect guard is comoletly useless. In that case it is easier to time, does more damage and can block anything that perfect guard can block+multi hits. But if they have perfect guard follow ups deal the same as power guard when blocking 2 hits then power guard would be better for multi hits and perfect guard better for single hits

[@Swordphobic]

@zawardo5909 its still a very clear upgrade over regular guard, with less knockback and a stronger shield bash.

[@wdma87]

For me the loss of the normal counter thrust is what killed my hype. My playstyle is so dependent on it i use it to keep up the aggression with maximum uptime it is so quick and versatile i feel like im dancing with the monsters. People mistakes the Lance with slow weapon but once i unsheath we don't stop attacking until the monster leave the area . The second thing is the nerfed guard dash and leap thrust it is so sad what they did and ontop of that it seems there is a travel time and lag in all the thrusts. All in all i feel Wild Lance is so slow it can't keep up with what i want it to do it is lagging behind the moves im planning to do it just different. Gobul words in this video gives me some i hope so im hoping i will find a new love and playstyle for Wilds Lance.

[@AFarCryAway]

I just started trying out the lance in World today (normally a Long Sword main), and sadly didn't spend any time with Lance in the Wilds beta. I'm happy to have your video to let me know how it was performing during the beta. I hope they make it feel as good to play in Wilds as in World. It seems like the type of weapon that is underrated but super fun!

[@invincaspartan]

I'm disappointed in the idea of losing 1000s of hours of muscle memory "wasted" but ill be optimistic in the sense after 20 hours of using the new Lance ill be set.

[@invincaspartan]

But I'm still questioning why every move makes me move and move out of position that I would want to be in forcing me to have to reposition my camera every fucking combo.

[@SyLuX636]

Fix your control to make focus mode more comfortable for ya.

[@spidudetoo1212]

​@invincaspartan they shouldn't be. If you are using mid thrust, even outside of focus mode, you can press forward to take a step forward with each thrust. If you dont press in any direction, you'll only move slightly forward. However you can also hold backwards to retreat with each thrust. Wide sweep allows you to turn in any direction during the swing animation, use it to adjust your aim. Payback thrust can go in any direction when you activate it.

[@invincaspartan]

@@spidudetoo1212 I played for around 2 hours and the amount of frustration I had with my character constantly moving around put me off. Hopefully when the game is released I can adapt to what you've said but man it left a poor taste in my mouth to have to constantly turn my slow character around

[@tenshi1160]

Was waiting on this vid!!

[@ryean8212]

5:42 How reliable do you think that is, by the way? We're 3 months away from release, and while I think it's enough for some tweaks I don't think they'll change anything complicated, Of course they wouldn't have a survey if they didn't plan on changing some things, but I do wonder what the limit is.

[@Drischa]

I think my main issue is just how much forward movement there was, especially the focus attack dash. I often found myself too far past the monster and having to use focus mode to turn around. lance relies so heavily on focus mode to hit anything it was difficult to feel like you get a fair return of damage for the amount of effort you have to put in to actually operate the thing. I've mained lance through iceborne and sunbreak, used it for the whole beta, yet the very first hunt I used longsword for rey dau it felt like I was getting more return for less effort on a weapon I hadn't put any time into learning. It's a little frustrating.

[@yaelcarrasquillo1675]

The main thing i didnt like was not having direct acces to counter thrust (without having to the attack first) they should've just added to the kit we had in world instead of just changing how the weapon works and creating issues it never had in the first place.

[@kaiokado1667]

Lance and SNS main here. Lance needs to be a bit faster in the 3 piece combos. I don’t like counter stance being locked behind the third poke. I do like the quick turn around after shield bash and the ability to cancel the new rapid jab into a guard. Overall I like it. I wish the thrust after a perfect guard was faster even if it lost some motion value. I’m fine keeping the thrust after power guard slow and heavy since it does more damage the more hits we block.

[@Vexal50]

3:55 Unless you're SnS or CB. The attacks on the circle button were historically stronger than the triangle button moves for those weapons, even when it was something simple like the lateral slash or the CB's sword charge attack :P

[@ZeroRulz0]

Thanks for reminding me about the feedback survey. I main LS and most of us are trying to get Capcom to add risk to more of the things we do but I also played with several others, including lance. I had fun with lance, but I felt like it was like DB/SA where I can visually see that I'm doing something but it never felt like I actually was. It might have to do with the lack of hit stop. But I'm not really sure if that's why because I also used hammer and that shit was fun as hell

[@analyticHeart]

I'll be sitting on the sidelines with my new and improved gunlance praying that they reverse the counter and speed changes/nerfs, as to me those are both pivotal to the lance's weapon fantasy. The lance is the non-stop aggro king, hence it's low commitment attacks, great defensive options, counters, and high mobility. If even a single one of those things gets removed from the lance, it's sticking power and fantasy will be heavily diminished(in my opinion). And Wilds did just that to the lance's speed and counter, making it feel like a completely different weapon from the one I love.

[@kyril98741]

The only negative that I really had for lance is that some move like backward guard advance are hard to do. The input are really tight and you need to input it all in order to do it while in rise, there is leniency that the move flow better.

[@outlander632]

The secret to enjoying Lance in Wilds is absolutely to just stay in Focus mode 90% of the time I think. I had a blast as soon as I started doing that. Directing your attacks and your shield precisely definitely feels like it sells the "lance fantasy" and you can utilize the shield's parry windows to continue your assault relentlessly all while stepping between attacks to keep pace with the monster's movements and stick to their weakpoint.

[@halcyonstudios1181]

I agree here. Unfortunately I didn't put 2 and 2 together before the beta was almost over, but using focus mode made it much more effective. Shaved off about 5 minutes from my Rey Dau hunts. Much easier when you're not missing every third hit.

[@saurmandersauce8048]

I also think if Capcom wants to have some attacks as slower pokes, they need to make sure those attacks feel powerful. More hitstop, bigger hit effects, etc. each hit on Rey Dau looked like you were poking him with a cardboard stick

[@RomanGuro]

I actually like it.. just make it FASTER, please, like in World :) Speed isn't only about chunky feeling this is about time to react, convenient to play, and overall DPS.

[@madestro]

My complain about Lance is that it doesn't feel with weight. Hits don't feel powerful enough, even the counters don't feel like I'm hitting anything. I see the numbers but I don't see the monster getting hit With skills on the weapons I'm hoping we can get stun on lances for the shield and that the guard deco will completely nullify chip dmg at some level

[@vengeflyking2722]

I dunno, if they either bring back multi hit skills like Chain Crit or Burst, or make a really good status Lance this weapon will surely be really strong. It's also possible that they bring back the skill that allows to deal damage when blocking to deal damage twice upon blocking. I played it a lot in Rise and older games, and it's by no means too weak there unless you're speedrunning or something

[@RedHornSSS]

Lance is the strongest it has been for a while in Sunbreak

[@billgreene4044]

I don't mind the controls on new lance, because to me, triangle has always been weaker because mid thrust does less damage, and circle the heavy because it does more. The counter is on circle but the gaurd dash is on triangle. I think it's fine having the heavier moves on the lance on circle and the light ones on triangle, Just look at the power gaurd follow ups in world and rise: the leaping thrust that's better for movement is on triangle, and the heavier hitting follow up is on circle.

[@Saltine3022]

done my due dilligence with feedback. I think the core of this lance is good, it just needs tweaking. More speed, better movement, reduction in moves that push you out of position, more opportunities for charged counter thrust, etc

[@superunknown2728]

Oh, oh no...

[@Michael-1337]

I think the new lance at its core is good but needs a few tweaks to some attacks. The focus attack is really the only major fix it needs since you are already point blank with the monster and you don't need to dash as far forward as it takes you. The charged counter thrust should become an offset attack as well.

[@Sageofthewoods098]

awesome video but i will say that historically switch axe sword mode gets majority damage from its Circle button moves specifically the double hit with Circle into either a Triangle or a hop to cancel into another double slash with Circle

[@joereed8872]

I very much had these issues on my first few hunts, but i also quickly adapted. I had to remove the left stick aiming durning focus mode because it really messed with aim. Increased the sensitivity to reduce the cluncky feeling. All in all, i got past all these problems with time. As far as motion values, i think the motion values on certain attacks increase based on the amount of attacks blocked. I had pay back thrusts in the 70s. My biggest disappointment is learning that the shield bash is knockback base is not timing based. I think that it means that giard is still going to be required if it still exists

[@mohammedshubayli8595]

My biggest criticism and thing I want to change is the damage ,the mobility, and the inconsistency between how fast you can guard after an attack. The 3 poke combo is slower now. The guard dash is very slow. The Dash attack start up is very slow too. Guard after high thrust is slower than mid thrust These are my biggest criticism

[@masterofcorgis4975]

4:56 You mention that Counter-charge should be on the circle button and that Triple Thrust should be on the triangle button but they are indeed on those button prompts? I'm not sure what you're confusing them with

[@guessm.7956]

So I'll start by by saying that I'm no master Lancer and only have around 60 hours of play time with it. With that said I gave it a go in world and learned it to the point that I feels comfortable using it to hunting fatalis with other players. I also went and took a break from it to insect glaive my way through rise and dual blades my way through sunbreak. So when I picked it up again in the beta I had the general knowledge to pick I up but no muscle memory to directly compare the feel of the weapon to. My experience with the Lance was that of a very smooth and fleshed out weapon. While I won't argue that some minor tweaks, such as speeding up the animation to match that of MHW iceborn, would benefit the weapon I do think that any clunkyness your feeling is due to the muscle memory reprogramming needed to transition between variations of the lance.

[@Ryker_11]

Seems Capcom listened to us and the survey about changes. Hopefully, they listened to the right people...

[@jfiggy7145]

I’m so glad to see I wasn’t the only one who did not like lance this time around hopefully it feels better when the game is out.

[@escadora2206]

in my opinion nothing that has been introduced with monster hunter wilds to the lance addresses any of the weakness or problems which lance originally had. I always felt like what the lance needs is a high damage attack, combo or move that maximizes damage for when the monster is stunned or falls over. Currently rather than beeing an opening like for most weapons, it feels more like your dps actually drops instead when that happens, because you no longer can counter. The weapon became slower and more clunky while not addressing this issue at all. The weapon basically does the same as before but they changed the button inputs, which just confused me. The weapon also once again didn't get anything flashy or crazy, its just poke looping. Yes poke looping is what the lance always was, but what i want is more variety. The core 3 poke loop was fine, imop it didnt need direct changes. what it needed is some additional options, for high commitment damage finishers or smth. There is no big move. its just the same action permamenly. I would just give lance a dragonator like gigathrust attack finisher which has to be charged and remove the sidesweep. Then stop it from beeing staggered 24/7 by everyone and everything.

[@gterry180]

I've never wanted to play lance but I should definitely give it a try sometime. Maybe I'll give it a go in Rise while waiting on Wilds.

[@jex2031]

I think the only major complaint i have about wilds lance so far is the drastic change to sharpness. Compared to world/iceborn and rise/sunbreak even without skills it felt like i was eating through sharpness a lot faster than any other time and weapon. Definitely would appreciate it if capcom adjusted this a bit

[@Fluxikator]

I think the triangle and circle thing didnt applay to world lance either. High thrust was more damaging than mid. And counter thrust was also on circle. So basically every high damage attack on lance was actually on circle not triangle.

[@czairkolmoslink5952]

I been working on new ways to make the High Thrust for wilds to feel better and I think this is the best way to help with the Counter Thrust feel better in Wilds. I showed this to mutple people and I think it would help a lot. High Thrust doesn't feel like it has it’s own identity that distinguishes and I feel like giving it a Press and Hold mechanic would help High Thrust: O = Press Counter Thrust: Ô = Hold Mid Thrust A = Press Ô O + Ô O + O + Ô O + O + O + (O or Ô) A + O + Ô A + A + O + (O or Ô) This way when performing the high Thrust it gives it more depth and holds a more traditional way of playing the Lance. Also, I feel like there might have been a bug as the last Thrust in the three-hit combo doesn't increase. Over all I do have a lot I like about this new lance but there are a lot of small things that would make it better in my eyes. I don't want to go back to world but I do want to improve on the new Lance as I feel like it is a good start. P.s. I been advocating for a shield attack on Dash Attack as well

[@Builimacen]

Am I one of the few who loved the lance? And I’m a LS/CB player… Been able to block whenever I wanted, the new triple poke, the new charge high poke and the new animation for the counter hit after the counter guard, made me wanna play the lance in wilds.

[@orangemynt806]

as an old school lance that left the lance in tri, and I'm finally returning since tri. Feels great to be back.

[@ralfliebau5706]

there will propaply be a week one mod to change the lance speed back to world numbers

[@likeaduck7184]

Attacks like charge counter and the instantly powered run after perfect guard miss the monster way more than they should even when using focus mode, and it makes the weapon feel really bad. Same thing with the shield charge after a focus strike, the shield hits before the final attack whiff way too often. Also this might be just me but a succesful charge counter's animation looks extremely underwhelming for such a strong move. Payback thrust supposedly gets stronger the more hits your power guard tanks before using it, but no monsters in the demo had multihit attacks to realistically try it on. And payback thrust as an option after perfect guard feels just wrong, like it's barely stronger than a normal poke but with double the animation commitment and no way to get stronger. I do like wide sweep being a risky but powerful option in the standard combo with a pretty cool new animation too. And skyward thrust as a mounting finisher is sick af.

[@Purpletrident]

I don't think lance feels clunky, in fact I think lance overall feels exceptionally good. However. My biggest issue with Rise lance was (other than the awful wirebug attacks) the ground cover distance of the guard dash and follow-up thrust being nothing. And then in Wilds it feels even worse. Lance needs the World hops back to better cover distance

[@UltimaLuminaire]

And from the depths, Gobul's returns. Glad to hear from you on the newest iteration. I think you'll start seeing people do new goofy stuff. Like Seraphic0 showed off: Focus Mode -> Side Hop -> Shield Strafe -> Side Hop. Lmao ridiculous and mystifying why that's in but they take other things away.

[@theramazing4615]

from the little of the demo I played (my laptop is underspec), Lance feels Cool~ the Animation are now so Beefy, now it actually looks 'powerful'. before, it's hard to get that 'powerful' feeling other than from guarding. the slowness is definitely something that needs getting use to. the forth poke option is SO huge. my main complain with lance was that it's SO NOT flashy to a fault. now we have cool flashy move

[@oswaldrehnquist4470]

One thing not mentioned and probably super weird to complain about but I disliked how LONG the window was to perform the payback thrust when I just wanted a normal high thrust. I adapted but still didn't like that I had to be hyper aware and even more inactive if I just wanted a regular thrust.

[@KGBZukhov]

Definitely got thrown off by the removal of counter-thrust. Constantly found myself trying to bring up my guard to block Doshaguma and eating it's forleg because of the end lag on my high pokes.

[@peepeefart]

The removal of that is the biggest wtf for me for wilds lance

[@kDallas_]

It's possibly the worst iteration of lance ever, and I've been playing since 3u

[@hennyzhi2261]

I've only sparsely heard details on the weapons because I want to keep my first impressions mostly my own when the game releases, but I've heard that monsters in the demo tend to overshoot the hunter which could also make lance slightly struggle in it's intended gamefeel of being this untouchable wall in the right hands. Even if you timed the parry's correctly it wouldn't matter if the monster has trouble tracking you to actually hit. It's one of my few concerns apart from the game running well enough on PC at launch.

[@randomanun4278]

So... the devs have thrown down a new gauntlet to us lance mains.... CHALLENGE ACEPTERUUUU!

[@dvdwelch]

I knew it felt slower! It felt so different from Worlds. Lance is one of my favorite weapons, but not my main. More of a secondary. I was hoping the changes were just something I would have to adjust to. However, my main hunting horn's changes were much easier to pick up.

[@jamesuu7698]

The whole triangle = strong, circle = weak argument is just incorrect. Counter thrust and high thrusts in world were circle attacks. Power guard thrusts were circle attacks. SnS circle combo was stronger than the triangle combo IG tornado slash was also a circle button. It varies weapon by weapon and is a moot point in my opinion. I think triple thrust being tied to Triangle makes sense as the triangle thrusts were quicker and circle has been traditionally used for high thrusts/counters. I do however think the charged counter should be accessible at all times, maybe with Triangle + Circle (similar to every other weapons offset attack) Reserving leaping thrust to guard dash and make Wide Sweep the circle alternative to triple thrust. Triangle = mid thrust > triple thrust Circle = high thrust > wide sweep Triangle + circle = Charged Counter This would streamline the basic moveset. Triangle + circle being both leaping thrust and wide sweep AND being inaccessible at thrust 3 was just confusing.

[@TheAjmos]

On ps5 the triple thrust was on triangle and charge counter was on circle as you said it should be.

[@Spyger9]

That ∆ vs O point is not AT ALL a consistent rule, speaking as someone who has played most weapons in most games. The Wilds Lance mapping were intuitive to me, coming from Iceborne.

[@61vision]

Every MH game I've ever played I choose a new weapon to main, and I wasn't sure what I'd go with for Wilds. With World I mained Gunlance, and whilst Wilds made Gunlance even better, I wanted to try all the weapons out. I immediately fell in love with this new lance. Maybe it's because I have very little experience of past lances, but this one was the most fun weapon in the whole game for me. I adored just blocking everything and keeping up constant damage. I'm planning on lancing my way through Wild as a result 😁

[@mahnameisj]

It may just be me but Lance felt better imo. It was a bit of a learning curve but when it clicked I had such a blast with it

[@domh3428]

Ik I’m late in here but I have a bandage solution if you like wolds lance play GS. GS does everything old lance could do in the counters while also getting a sexy over power attack. ngl tho I don’t get why lance can’t do over power attack on the 4th 0 move it is the same move as GS just with less access

[@schmuckford]

This is what I submitted in the survey as a lance main: "I played over 1000 hours of Monster Hunter World+Iceborne, and I only used the lance. I was overall disappointed with the changes to the lance in Monster Hunter Wilds for the following reasons: 1.) The new counter system is a direct nerf compared to World/Iceborne. Forcing the player to release the counter at the precise time of an attack to trigger the counter, as opposed to triggering anytime during the animation, feels like an unnecessary punishment to an already lesser-played weapon. The reward for landing a successful counter in Wilds is not worth the additional skill required. It also feels more luck based in that you can only initiate it after a 3 thrust combo, and depending on what the monster's next move is may not be what you want to do in the moment. 2.) Guard dashing is less intuitive. I am unsure what change is responsible for this, but guard dashing seems to see the hunter face the direction of the guard dash more often when not wanted. For example, if trying to guard dash backwards, the hunter will turn around 180 degrees and guard dash backwards while leaving their back facing the monster and therefore getting hit instead of being protected as intended. 3.) The swipe move needs to have less importance in overall damage. It is not a fun move, it goes against the overall fantasy of the lance, and now that it has an upward angle means it is more likely to miss mid combo. Because it does so much more damage than regular thrusts, it feels required to use to do optimal damage. My main complaint is that the overall flow of the lance gameplay feels harder to achieve. This relates to the counter change, but the lance is most fun when you are able to anticipate and cancel the monster's attack and continue your own attacks. This is now not possible unless you can perfect guard or get lucky with using the counter. Few people use the lance already, and not only does making the weapon slower but also nerfing/removing tools we had previously feels unnecessary."

[@mrbobo86]

Hammer felt way off too. You recovery so slowly after the golf swing

[@yxxrem]

the charge counter needs to be more accessible.. also devs need to add offset counter for Lance

[@Demios101]

Wtf do you mean by ending lag? Do you mean recovery?

[@kwagmeijer26]

I hope it's more clunky overall, World streamlined things too much for my taste. Mostly, I just want the forward hop removed so reverse hop chasing can be a viable movement option again.

[@rhysshort6303]

Main lance and couldn't get on with it felt alien to me all my timings were off what have they done to my baby ended up having the most fun with hunting horn don't know what happened there see how it goes hopefully they tune back once of the least played weapons as is don't scare of the lance mains sort it please

[@JacobShamer]

Never played lance before, but after playing it here it’ll be my main

[@ToHonorKnowledge]

Homie busted out the “niggles” immediately lmfao

[@tzera_rhuon]

I play mostly IG & lance, and both felt terrible in the beta.

[@94DaveID]

I mained Lance in Sunbreak. I tried it in Wilds, but the controls did feel weird, slow and clunky. Also the dmg was quite low, I think..

[@drakeshotplays]

I've tested all weapons they all feel great and that's coming from a Gen 1er who's been Hunting for Twenty Years love Monster Hunter and looking forward to hunting and collab as well!

[@noise.s]

It does look slower, haven't tried myself so can't say for sure maybe it's just playstyle. Missing some moves I liked but the shield hits after blocking an attack look amazing. Is there even a sweep anymore?

[@shemashekarshalom539]

Yes there is a sweep it is the best dps as 2nd attack in the combo. Sweep cannot start a combo.

[@zach2011w]

Yep and it has a more vertical arc, sweeping up during the attack.

[@the_incredibleskrub]

It is a lot slower than in world. I think the actual speed decrease is down like 22% in wilds. The attacks also don’t really feel that “meaty” anymore, in that your attacks don’t really feel like they do a whole lot

[@itsKimi]

origami monsters werent a rig problem but a culling problem of the models by the game, instead of using the HD models the game culled the very far view models, people eat up that missconception of being a "my pc isnt powerful enough" like crazy, if your pc was not powerful enough why would everything else load in correctly ? food for thought.

[@ultimasurge]

Love your voice joust champ

[@khmrjordan]

Lance basic attacks feel too slow. We should be able to mix the held button finishers at anypoint in a combo.Dash start up is slow. Leap thrust is too short. Instagaurd attack is weak. Power stance counter is weak.

[@Rafaelrgm]

I hate the lance, but this demo was the first time I found it actually fun.

[@solotopp]

Really wish they did the MH Rise lance moveset. That one was bis.

[@RedHornSSS]

I see good ideas with the new moves. but the whole kit is loosely put together and feels awful with all the slowdown.

[@marcusaaronliaogo9158]

Well, it’s being reworked now

[@PolluxStrike]

Losing the counter thrust cancel to reset pokes is stupid. Either someone of the dev team hates lance players or they have no idea what they are doing with it. Sounds like it’s time to embrace the U.S.A. Lance.

[@Nanarachouilla]

To be honest, along the years I ended up using the standard hop or the guard dash/leaping thrust more to reset combo, to the point I dropped conter thrust almost completely

[@BlackBeltGamers88]

They neutered the overall kit of the Lance in wilds. Locking your dps behind the 3 poke combo when every other weapon got shortcuts and streamlined methods to their power attacks is just dumb. Lance's strongest attack, the kinda garbage brace counter on circle, isn't even usable when the monster is KO'd or trapped. A lot of moves were taken away, with almost nothing to replace it. Saying there is skill expression with the meager kit they left the Lance with now is quite the stretch. It's instablock mechanics that all lead into 3 poke setups expecting you to use 3 poke finishers. That's before taking about the returning moves that were all nerfed for whatever reason. One of the weaker weapons in the franchise getting nerfs 😂 who's have thunk it... Every other weapon got flash, flair, new tools to reach their high damage tools. Lance is like, hey, you want to do these cool new moves? Yeah... No shortcuts... No streamlining, yeah, all 3 pokes every time. I'm not feeling good about Lance in wilds. Gunlance looks way better at this point. Only time will tell but, if the Beta is the final build of Lance, I'm dumping it. It's just not good in the current form. Being stripped of many tools/options, no replacements, expected to be a turtle and just 3 poke constantly... Sorry 4 poke to even have any decent dps was just horrible. Bow got infinite stamina... Lance got nerfed. Explain that to me like I'm 5. LS got extended counters, dismount counter, more damage on counters, Lance isn't even a counter weapon this time around. We literally have no counters. I know it's called counter thrust but it's super armor with the strictest timing window since vanilla instablock... Not worth using. It's just mind boggling... Buffs to top tier weapons, nerfs to the losest play weapon of all time. We peaked at almost 5% in Rise/Sunbreak. In Wilds I guarantee that number will be 2% or less if no changes are made.

[@FGMagala]

The entire triangle circle purpose issue I think is only a legacy issue. The older attacks are the ones that mistakens power verses special effect when high thrust has always done more damage than mid thrust. This time, mid thrust actually does do more damage in the third hit, and the fourth has higher DPS than compared to circle, which has the special property of being an offset attack. I do think that the triple thrust's lag is pretty clunky feeling, and the guarding advance is pretty bad this time around. Lance charge also starts pretty slow, though it is still good enough to close the distance after the monster creates some distance with an attack, and is better than what most other weapons get, even if we can't guard while doing it. There's also some guard points with some of the attacks, though I haven't had the chance to test them myself. Perfect guard along with the instant counter that comes with it, as well as the followup counter is also great. Overall, I think lance is in a better spot than ever, but at the cost of some of our staples having been nerfed, especially the slowness of the triple thrust and the low range of guard advance. But neither diminishes what we got in turn, and is a net positive by a wide margin. The biggest issues are more about learning to lean into the changes rather than stubbornly try to play lance like it's still World. Focus mode is far better than clutch claw, even if clutch counter was cool as all hell.

[@-_sh4lhi3ra_-41]

Agree with pretty much everything you said. I started out mad as hell. But after a few hunts amd looking at some guides to see what I missed, I actually think that this is a much more interesting version of the lance than world and rise. As far as I can see most weapon mains are complaining about clunkiness so I think this is a wilds problem, not just a lance problem. I still think there are a few improvements to be made as far as fluidity but overall I'm happy. Unlike with insect glaive, which felt worse the more I learned about it. Everything change with that weapon is felt so awful. So I'm glad one of my mains got some good material.

[@FGMagala]

@@-_sh4lhi3ra_-41 I do think IG kinda had it coming though, despite how much people complain about it. Spending an entire fight in the air is a massive pain in Capcom's rear, and they've been progressively trying to discourage it yet most IG players still did it as their go-to strat. Monster design that accounts for a small percentage of players spending all their time airborne just generally didn't work unless if they had a handful of special anti-air exclusive attacks, which is cost-prohibitive from a development standpoint. They wanted IG to stop flying so monster design could be more efficient, and their attempt at killing the IG's aerial DPS to the point that it was basically just trolling the party didn't work, so they just gave up and decided to force players to go cold chicken on this. At least, that's my theory, but I'm not even an IG player and have only dabbled on the weapon over the years.

[@higgsbosonfan]

Your "triangle vs circle" argument is flat out wrong, especially for swaxe

[@GM_028]

I just hope they finally get rid of Guard Thrust, maybe replace it with a shield bash that doesn't suck

[@Mech-Badger-Man]

I recommended to them that they replaced it with charge counter. Means you always have access to it.

[@Gobuls_Lantern]

That's a really nice idea, guard thrust is archaic and would be great swap for access to charge counter.

[@RedHornSSS]

THIS and the fucking guard slash on SnS...

[@apexthelegend]

short answer: yes they did

[@zakwancu3]

they better buff the damage or make our lance sharpness lance a fuq ton longer, we better beach and moan or we get a less desirable version of lance similar situation as rise hunting horn, if they dont hear our complaints, we keeeping this lance for 2 to 3 Monster Hunter games dev is really bad at balancing lance guarding, they should make lance a boxing fighting style simple but complex more situational moves with similar input as guard advance should be the norm for lance. they did it for longsword why not lance?

[@CoolSmoovie]

After looking at your host of videos on the lance, I think you are qualified to talk about this😅

[@teanymonster5227]

sadly i cant gift any money but i wish you best of luck with your PC upgrade : ) hope you have a great days

[@Garfield91076]

Between the price, performance and wrecking the lance, I'm probably waiting a few years to get wilds cheap or just skipping wilds and maybe monster hunter for good if this is the path they go. Guess we always have world and rise.

[@Sorrowcrusader]

Personally I like the new ver of the lance it feels like it has weight to it it feels nice but they Should give that effect for when hitting with the greatsword back the Greatsword doesn’t feel like it has that weight to it but it’s whatever

[@hua..]

Considerably worse than both world and rise iterations but I'll wait until full release to embrace the dooming

[@QuestionMarks420]

0:18 Dawg I beg your pardon?

[@Gobuls_Lantern]

"niggle", it's british slang (if a word originating from the viking era counts as slang lol) and it means: a trifling doubt, objection, or complaint.

[@MrSierra116]

Lol no, its just you're used to the bing bing wahoo garbage that was Rise Lance was fine and better than in 4U and World/IB

[@michaelmcdonald2005]

Am I misremembering? I'm almost positive that our Charge Counter was on B (Circle) and the Triple Thrust was on Y (Triangle). In fact, I am positive about that. I agree on the overall clunkiness and slowness of the new Lance, but those complaints don't seem accurate. Maybe Playstation controls were different? Fantastic video btw! First one I've seen of yours, will definitely be subscribing

[@zach2011w]

I really think it’s growing pains. It felt super fluid to me, especially versus Rise. Getting perfect guards more regularly, the free damage off guards, taking hits from the lion bear during his back to back attacks, etc. The lance archetype felt better than ever to me. I’ve never been a good judge on damage, but lance always struck me as a low damage but super consistent fighter and even with the new luring pods, might be even better tanker. The shield even felt more reliable overall, especially in blocking Rey’s big lightning attack. I think the charge counter will show greater value with offset attacks or in allowing for the lance to meet attack for attack.

[@zach2011w]

Also power clash!!!

[@the_incredibleskrub]

For Rey Dau’s railgun attack, I felt there were times that I could block it with the lance shield, and then other times I just couldn’t, and got instantaneously one-shotted from full health

[@Skankhunt668]

​@@the_incredibleskrubin my opinion it's a pretty easy attack to block on time the things is that lance has always been bery dependent on guard skills on your armor

[@Anonymous-dg5je]

I think you should try Sunbreak's Lance. It's literally the best Lance ever.

[@Bakuganmaster51]

0:17 Can you say that??? jkjk