Did Unity just redeem themselves with their latest update?

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

It's definitely the right direction, but lots of trust will still have to be worked back! If you decide to stop using Unity in its entirety I fully understand and respect that decision. For me to feel good about these changes I need to see them enshrined in a EULA or TOS of some kind that is ironclad, basically signed by a lawyer! We'll see where it goes, but finally the first steps in the right direction!

[@bbrainstormer2036]

Unity has revealed something very important to developers: Unity is a liability, and there is nothing stopping them (except for a ridiculous amount of community backlash, as seen here) from screwing over their most loyal customers.

[@GIRGHGH]

"Right direction" is relative. Because it wasn't fully in effect yet, I think it's safe to say that *less* in the wrong direction doesn't qualify for being in the right direction. Even fully abandoning that direction wouldn't counteract all this. They crossed a line, and it's gonna be crossed until they jump back over. And not only that, but even get further away from the line and put up barbed wire.

[@wesc6755]

No. Mandatory installation telemetry is a deal-breaker, regardless of caps or tiers. In order to know which payment cap to self-report, installation telemetry must still be collected. Either Unity must count, or we must count. And we must define what "unique engagement" means. Too much effort, too intrusive. This is equivalent to Adobe counting the number of views a video has created with Premier. The artifacts we create from the tools we license is none of their business. Keep it simple: 6% of revenue after a million. The counting installs is just a can of worms.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

That's fine, but I don't think they are going to have that installation data collected anymore? If "new player engagement" is supposed to be self-reported developers can easily do that with the tools that already exist or via Steam/Epic Games download numbers. I do agree that it should 1000% be better defined and it should be made much clearer that no installation data is collected 🙏🏻

[@igorpuschner786]

Did you all get serious braindamage somehow?! They showed you the plans to the deathstar, everybody freaked out. Now they just rolled back to "only" building star destroyers, and keep the plans to the death star in the drawers. Surely they will NEVER build a deathstar. Pinky swear.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

I look at like this: They already f-up... BIG TIME. Like so majorly that 1000s of people will never be using unity again, yourself included it sounds like. That is a fact and I support this. The good news are the 100s of developers who have been working on their games for years who can breath a sigh of relief! Trust is gone, I am with you! That is why I would need to see an ironclad, independently lawyer-verified perpetual TOS/EULA for old versions which enshrines this change. I still fully agreed that one should learn at least another engines even if they stick with unity. Unity-only is a BAD idea, so far we agree!

[@valasdarkholme6255]

​​@@GameDevByKaupenjoe Yep. If they completely change their business model to a Blender-like open source thing, making their customers be "big businesses who want new specific features". Something with ironclad irrevocability built in. Short of that... Nah bro. I wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them, and I suspect that goes a lot more for the people who make games as their dayjob.

[@bbrainstormer2036]

I definitely agree with, but you really shouldn't precede your well-thought analogy with a cheap insult

[@OminousHvh]

I just feel that this won't bring back all the people who have already ventured into learning new engines and have invested many hours into mastering something new. They knew what they were doing, and now they are resorting to things they wouldn't have done unless this happened, they are just trying to save themselves. I'm glad this happened; I'm enjoying myself even more now that I'm learning a new engine.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Agreed! There are probably 1000s who are gone. They tried one of the other engines out there and saw how awesome they are (myself included of course). I am happy to see somewhat of a reversal there, and once again I am tentatively excited about it, but wanna see some written legal jargon that tells me they cannot mess with me like this again in old versions! That's the big thing. But also, having incredible fun with other engines as well, so who knows 😅

[@ClaudioCavalcanteTonha]

I paid some unreal and godot courses

[@ALL_FOR_NOTHING_]

@@ClaudioCavalcanteTonha godot 4.2 is almost release they have 1000 fixes bug and changes and i hope they will release it soon. after that they are planning on 5.0 after the 4.2 update

[@raen5256]

@@ClaudioCavalcanteTonha Same and Im having a blast with it. For job purposes I will keep using Unity, but for personal projects I'm using Gadot or Unreal

[@bbrainstormer2036]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe Your comment just looks like it cuts off at "tells me they"

[@Xenthera]

I ignored Godot forever. This made me take a serious look into it. I don’t think I’ll be going back to Unity anytime soon.

[@HealyHQ]

It really is something special.

[@praus]

Absolutely love Godot.

[@artxiom]

Me too, tried once Godot a few years ago but then switched to Unity. Now I use Godot4 and I really, really like it so far.

[@YogurtGaming2]

The physics are pretty shit and 3D support needs to be a bit better , and it’s lacking some features. but it is a very good engine other than that

[@st.altair4936]

Remember, they already did this whole thing back in 2019 with Spatial OS where they retroactively applied changes to already released games. Ended up making a clause in their TOS to prevent themselves from doing something like that again.... which they deleted earlier this year to pull off what they did this time. I have no doubt they'll do this again. That's just how corporations, specially publicly traded ones, are. FOSS is the way.

[@valasdarkholme6255]

"Did Unity just redeem themselves?" I don't think so. They've pulled similar stunts before (2019), and this time affecting far more devs. I've even heard publishers this week started backing out of publishing games if those games were built with Unity. (Contracts not yet signed of course). I think the number of people willing to gamble their livelihood on Unity's ongoing good behaviour has just sharply decreased. Even with them backpedaling, nobody wants a volatile backstabbing business partner. Maybe they can eventually earn their way back to trustworthiness, but I don't see this letter being enough to convince most people, particularly given they've done this before and made similar promises in apology. I think they just lost a lot of market share for the next several years.

[@zaftnotameni]

hopefully the people that refused to learn their lessong back in 2019 do learn it this time and get out of this unity train

[@fryjoinn7251]

A software with a backdoor is dangerous to anyone.

[@dancovich]

Redeem? How do you redeem yourself from the perception that you can't be trusted? Sure, the change is good to the companies who can't get out of the engine, but the fact remains that they can't be trusted.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Definitely with you! They made a step in the right direction after they jump 10 miles in the wrong one. I definitely need to see some sort of legal TOS/EULA that's really tight and can't be changed, before I could recommend "going back" if at all. What I will say though, everyone, even they choose to go back should 100% learn another engine as well. It's a rocky road and they might try and pull some crap like this in a couple of years again!

[@Rai2M]

"Did Unity just redeem themselves with their latest update?" NO.

[@EliGamesOfficial]

Too late. The shattered their brand in my eyes, I’m transitioning current work to Godot, and that’s it for me. I understand some people cannot afford to transition - my heart goes out to them.

[@martenkahr3365]

Did they fire the whole C-suite of executives and their upper management subordinates that pushed this insanely short-sighted and braindead decision against the protests of the technical teams that actually understood the products and customer base? No? Then no, they didn't redeem themselves.

[@jernaugurgeh451]

To answer the question in your video title: No. The runtime fee / revenue share on top of licensing fees for paid users is still absolutely terrible. And beyond that is the principle, and the precedent that they have set. They showed their true colours, and what little regard they have for their users. Do the trust is gone, and I think that any game dev professionals who continue to use Unity (beyond the completion of their current games in progress), are in denial and setting themselves up for further shenanigans.

[@takarahayashi4124]

they refusing to let go of the spyware, I mean install fees. what will happen if gamers learn that they're installing ironsource spyware?

[@jabalahkhaldun3467]

i think it would be best to continue with godot or any other free alternatives

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Right there with you! I think this is mostly HUGE relief for the hundreds of developers who had projects already in the works. The are be sleeping great tonight! Other than that, I think with the amount of alternatives and their quality agreed! It's hard for them to come back even with this 🙏🏻

[@cheesymcnuggets]

Nah I'm good tbh, had they made this update within 2 days they might've caught me but now after experiencing the delights of Godot, I'm gone. The trust with Unity is still broken and who's to say they won't try to make sneaky changes again in the future, Godot is an engine who's heading in the right direction and has good morals so I'm just going to support them from now on.

[@JuxGD]

good, but this goes to show that Unity can screw anyone up at any moment. as good as Unity is, and as good as these changes are, it's undeniably better to have a comminity-driven, FOSS game engine, that people can fork at any time, to improve it, or in the unlikely case they mess up.

[@zaftnotameni]

I'm very glad these changes will make it so people that are stuck with unity for now won't suffer, but really hope everyone still keeps their resolve to get out ASAP - I think deciding to stay would be suuuuuuper shortsighted and naive at this point (it was naive already... all of this pretty much already happened a couple of years ago and everyone seems to forget)

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Oh I think so! And that's the biggest recommendation I can give, even for people continuing to use Unity: LEARN AT LEAST ONE MORE ENGINE!

[@praus]

I think it’s definitely better than their first horrible (possibly illegal?) idea. I think it’s good for some studios who just can’t change mid development. However, I personally can never trust them again. I’ll be sticking with Godot. I hope Massive Monster decides not to delete Cult of the Lamb now. It should easily fall into the previous license. I would not be surprised if they still decide to go with a different engine for future games.

[@praus]

I’m really glad you’re still looking at other game engines. I still think that’s a great idea. It’s fun to watch someone explore something new. I like seeing the process.

[@ipga13]

I gotta say, while Itis a step very much in the right direction, it still kind of feels like unity bribing us with lollipops to not be mad at them anymore

[@AdityaValvi]

They did not redeem themselves. At all.

[@mrtinythumb5363]

im never touching unity ever again. doesnt matter they "fixed" it now. it will happen again. just wait :P

[@Feroov]

Ye but onces you scramble a piece of paper and open it back up it aint same smooth paper is it? thats the trust they lost tho even tho if they "redeem" I still wouldn't continue

[@aziris7257]

Betray me once, shame on you. Betray me twice, shame on me. I am not stupid enough to be betrayed twice. So anyone smarter than me would dump Unity as soon possible.

[@wz9573]

No, they have shown their hand, yes this new policy is fine BUT the trust is gone. Where is the goodwill gesture we could perceive as a genuine contrition / apology? Not even the bare minimum ie the CEO's resignation? No reason to extend them an ounce of trust back. Much better for current projects at least. The only way they claw back now is if they make future versions so great people really want to use them & accept the risk of backstabbing. No doubt some will, but I'll be amazed if a decent portion of their userbase doesn't move on.

[@Samcpfc]

Off Topic: is your mouse really that opaque or is it the screenrecorder that has made it like that? 😅

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Very strange, maybe premiere f-ed something up when I exported the video 😅🙃🙃

[@retroarcadefan]

Sounds like some good changes in their update. The real questions out there are what the price, performance, and features of the competition are relative to Unity. I appreciate you trying other engines out for a ride but maybe a feature and performance comparison overview after you have done that would be helpful afterwards.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Yes, I actually thought about incorporating this as well in the future videos 🤔 Basically listing a few of those things, like Pricing, possible TOS issues, performance and some games that were made with the engine just so people have an idea. I think I might append that for Godot in a separate video, will add it for the next engine in the third and then will continue to add those details in the first video. I think it's going to provide relevant context! Thank you for the suggestion! 😁💙💙

[@dertobbe1176]

And thank you for your Update

[@YunusEmreY]

Guys as you know Unity is a big company. They care money of course. They will not stop doing that :D

[@tralavala9808]

Gonna see how it will evolve. Im also curious how will they work on the engine itself, will we see new systems build for few years and dropped for something new again and again?

[@MrCrompz]

I love unity.

[@DietChugg]

I used to.

[@donnerrizza5104]

Heck no, I hope no, people need to keep away from unity and anithing that do that thing of let me change our contract without notice and without care, and later backtrack and only backtrack if they are called out

[@TwashMan]

We are so back!

[@OlavSchneider]

Not good enogh.

[@dertobbe1176]

Good

[@MrSongib]

Their wording still sus. ngnl "engagements" or "2.5% monthly"? which one is it. xdd

[@slumberstudio4757]

is raylib framework on the list?

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

It wasn't before, but I put in on my extended list. I have been learning about so many new engines, it's amazing 👀

[@ivydragyn9606]

NAH! They lost my business as a developer and a gamer. As a company they should die!

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Fully respect that and support that! They really didn't help themselves taking so damn long to respond to this! Basically letting people stew in their awful decisions! Before I would think about doing anything with Unity again, I also want that perpetual EULA/TOS - regardless of how people decide, I hope they realize that one should not build their business on only a singular foundation! 🙏🏻

[@ivydragyn9606]

@GameDevByKaupenjoe I'm not a bad coder myself. I am slowly working on building an open source game engine, free for all, and modable. If it works it will take away from these beurocratic corporations. Who have no care for those that put their hearts and souls into their art.

[@TwashMan]

We are so back!

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Compared to what we had before, it's huge! I can still understand the hesitation which is why I wanna see an ironclad TOS or EULA that cannot be changed! While i really don't think they will do anything sneaky know, I wouldn't entirely put it past them.