Unity Runtime Fee is the Death of Unity!

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Feel free to leave me your comments on ideas, concerns or anything! Try to keep the discussion cordial even though it might be difficult as emotions are high right now 🙏🏻

[@PhilipJaehnert]

I've been contemplating for almost a year whether to choose Unreal or Godot. And despite UE5's new technologies like Nanite, I am still more drawn to Godot because I anticipate a faster workflow thanks to its more intuitive user-friendliness. UE5's workflow is too sticky, interrupted, and nested. Even though its features are indeed very deep, it feels just like trying to run underwater on the ocean floor. The feature overload slows you down and is therefore too oversized for a solo indie developer. Maybe someone here has arguments in favor of UE5. Regarding Unity, the joy of opening the program has been lost, although I have always highly valued the workflow of this software.

[@oceandiamond22]

sells game for 1$ -0.3 from steam -0.25 from publisher -0.2 per install to unity (1 install) 0.35$ to developer (2 installs) 0.15$ to developer (3 installs) -0.05$ to developer (intentional 1000 install bomb) -199.55$ to developer from my understanding, this also kills webGL games the only game project i have actually finished was for a kids website, and my understanding of it is each time the page is leaded counts as an install i doubt they are making more than 0.2$ in ad revenue from the ads shown along side the game

[@handsanitizer2457]

Wait but isn't ue5 taking 5% yearly as royalties if uou make more than a mil ?

[@RaPSoN48]

bro... OPEN SOURCE ONLY. it's makes the engine your property. using proprietary 3rd party software is always a recipe for a disaster because it's makes you a slave. only open source bro

[@FuGyz]

I would love Godot tutorials if you actually end up switching, there are lots of people that might switch and C# tutorials on Godot could be a banger.

[@DrQuestern]

Per install fee is the worst software business model I've heard of in my entire life. This is ridiculous.

[@seeibe]

Gamers: Install limits on games are bullsh*t Unity: Hold my IPO

[@DrQuestern]

@@seeibe shareholders sure do love a little bit of destroyed reputation, with a touch of deceit and broken trust!

[@frag0638]

Funny how this pricing model is most common with botnet sellers

[@kalythai]

Imagine: We at Unity introduces the Coin Slot system! To play games with our engine, you need to pay 25 cents an hour! We also want Valve, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to pay us to have games installed on their platform.

[@LunaticEdit]

Steam charges 30% per install. They are doing just fine.

[@pythonxz]

Godot and UE are looking really good right now.

[@Axiassart]

search for "Unity alternative" gonna be on the rise

[@BetaTester704]

Godot has been good for a while

[@googleuser4720]

Youre a fool, 99% of indie devs dont make even close to 200K per year, so they got nothing to worry about, this is for AAA studios to pay a fee to Unity.

[@Goddisz]

They're good even before this news

[@googleuser4720]

@@Goddisz Youre a fool, 99% of indie devs dont make even close to 200K per year, so they got nothing to worry about, this is for AAA studios to pay a fee to Unity.

[@Boss_Fight_Index_muki]

Unity is doing the best job they can to make ensure the success of UE5

[@taekwon4980]

I'm literally already planning on start messing with ue5 after that lol

[@JensonTM]

@@taekwon4980ong same

[@PotionOfProof]

Watch out for UE to do something crazy as well in the coming years. Half of games being made now are using Unreal now, that gives them alot of power. We need to keep pressure on companies to try and keep BS like this back as long as we can.

[@FPChris]

Unreal is way easier IMO. I jumped ship early and glad I did.

[@lucasljs1545]

I will go for Godot, safer and can help everything grow.

[@Dystopikachu]

This is such next-level money grabbing that even governments could learn from it. Truly impressive.

[@lukasgruber1280]

what else would you expect form the guy who made EA the worst company multiple times?

[@45throoster]

Sidewalk repairs will now be taxed per step instead of an umbrella property tax... Thank you for living in Unity.

[@TomyDayos]

I also heard about the EA guy being the new unity CEO.

[@BeesAndSunshine]

Modern governments are designed around protecting the capitalist class. They don't have to take your money, they just have to protect and stay out of the way of those who wish to.

[@Sammysapphira]

20 cents out of sales is laughably cheap fee to pay for state of the art software.

[@westingtyler1]

As a long-time unity dev, this unity per-install fiasco finally made me start familiarizing myself with Godot, which has apparently gotten a lot beefier in the past year. after seeing how Blender, being free and open source, went from garbage to galaxy tier animation and modeling software, I believe in open source and think it's smart to bet on a FOSS game engine like Godot, which can only improve over time, as opposed to some corporate products, which can slowly degrade (like Unity.)

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Yep, I will absolutely be looking into any other game engine and seeing what they might have to offer! Also, this is completely off-topic, but I absolutely adore your profile picture, just joyful to look at 😁😁

[@westingtyler1]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe thank you! it's a slug monster from my game #NotSSgame, which I've been working on since 2018 in unity but NOW am switching over to Godot. my friend drew the original artwork for me awhile back. I highly recommend checking out Godot. been trying it out for several hours and it seems legit.

[@pxlcrdgm8140]

I made the stupid decision to uninstall UE4 back in 2018 to install Unity and learn it because it was more accessible to develop mobile games with Unity, now I see this as s total defeat

[@westingtyler1]

@@pxlcrdgm8140 for me i've become a programmer, and those skills will transfer. even the scripts I made in unity, i'm dropping them into ChatGPT and telling them to convert them to Godot C#, and it's working super well, fixing a few errors from different types (Light in unity, but DirectionalLight3D in Godot). so the work and knowledge are not really lost, switching engines.

[@westingtyler1]

and don't see it as a defeat, see it as a challenge. do what I'm doing and decide to master Godot in a week. you can master a new engine faster now, since you understand the core concepts. it all makes you stronger like Highlander. also any time I encounter these things i tell myself "you did it before, so you can do it again BETTER. true mastery isn't about taking your time to do something well slowly once. it's about being able to take the hits, get back on your feet, and do ti again better faster stronger, tackling the new challenge. also, even with Unreal this could happen because it's a for-profit game engine. this unity debacle should be a wake up call that our future is not safe in the hands of ANY for-profit game engine. Tim Sweeney could sell Unreal tomorrow or go public, and the death spiral would begin as well for Unreal. I'm taking the opportunity to invest my brain in free open source software like Godot. and continuing to grow as a dev, means eventually I would even have the option of slowly learning how to make my own engine, for that extra independence and freedom and security, but in the meantime there's no ransom money hovering ominously over my head as I worry what they'll do next. @@pxlcrdgm8140

[@CPalanysamy]

The main problem is not reaching those thresholds. The problem is distribution and publishers. Publishers will think twice before giving a greenlight to your game made in Unity

[@AKasatikov]

As I see now a lot of games made with free Unity bring money to developers and publishers and zero to Unity . Unity make engine not for charity

[@adippful]

​@@AKasatikovI mean others like epic with unreal can do it without pissing off their customers tho

[@RenderAndReviews]

not developer detected @@AKasatikov

[@norrecvizharan1177]

They're already racking up a lot just from licensing/subscription based fees though, but this is a whole new level of greed.@@AKasatikov

[@CPalanysamy]

@@AKasatikov It just feel very unpredictable both the charging fee (where else have you seen charging for installs?) and also very liable to the next whim Unity execs will come up with

[@diaq_]

It's so insane that this got approved.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Agreed! The execs probably only focussed on how to extract that gacha money from Genshin Impact and the like... but man. This is rough...

[@diaq_]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe I feel like everyone would get scared at the thought of their game going viral and waking up to a charge they can't pay.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Yep, it's the unpredictability and the possibility for exploitation. Both from Unity and malicious actors. While 5% revenue share from Unreal might be higher in some circumstances, it is predictable, calculatable and reasonable for a business. Whatever Unity cooked up is way too risky for any business to ever actually consider.

[@stepanshnder1850]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe I don’t want to switch to Unreal with its C++ and speed two times lower

[@toolazytobeoriginal4587]

​@@stepanshnder1850Isn't c++ one of the fastest programming languages? Unless you are talking about the speed of the workflow

[@rahn45]

Budgeting is important no matter what level of game development you're on. There's literally no way to budget for Unity's installation fee.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Exactly, the uncertainty is what kills it for me. You cannot build a business with that kind of a risk (beyond the risk of making a game in the first place!)

[@sabiplaypuzzles7332]

You can tell that Unity hasn't prepared for potential questions. So they were really convinced that the developers would accept it again without questioning it (as is often the case). Unfortunately, this time they leaned too far out of the window.

[@hamzanajji8615]

There are projects started 3 or 4 years ago and still in the making with unity that can't just be cancelled after spending some high budgets and will be forced to adapt to new changes. Unity teams know what they are doing

[@sabiplaypuzzles7332]

​ @hamzanajji8615 In this case it makes things even worse.

[@joechristo2]

- with their tongue flowing in the wind, like a dog

[@Crozz22]

@@hamzanajji8615 Even with an already sunk cost, the fact that they measure per install pretty much ensures that someone malicious can bankrupt any dev.

[@jmanners]

@@hamzanajji8615 It would be the ethical choice to refuse to pay this fee

[@ipga13]

Sooo i am already in the process of switching to godot. looks like the perfect time

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Yep, fully agreed! I think I will be looking into other engines as well - like I said will probably come with a bit of an hiatus on this channel. Real shame, but what can you do 🙏🏻

[@pxlcrdgm8140]

Got room for one more bro? I'll make the switch aswell

[@desertdragon05]

Damn it’s almost like the current CEO used to work for EA…..wait a minute…

[@zORg_alex]

I had a bachelor's thesis on realistic animation in Unity 5. I feel you. I hope this will go away asap.

[@zORg_alex]

Hope unreal will make a move and make support for c# as scripting language. 😂

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

From what I have heard is that they did add some funding via the EPIC MegaGrants to the UnrealCLR which is an unofficial plugin that supports C# in Unreal. Might be worth taking a look at: github.com/nxrighthere/UnrealCLR

[@JoViljarHaugstulen]

The issue for Unity is that even if it is removed Unity will still have lost a lot of goodwill and trust. Like if they removed it what's preventing them from adding it or some other thing like it in the future? Which makes using Unity seem a lot riskier and more uncertain.

[@ilaripori6148]

Why would your thesis be only applicable to unity? Animation is not THAT different in different engines..

[@rafalfaro]

Even if they backpedal the trust is already broken. They revealed their hand and it's horrific what stops them from pulling this again in the future secretly.

[@themcdonal]

Masterfully said. This update was so wild that I didn't know whether to laugh or be sad.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

I think one has to laugh at the stupidity of it, but that turns into anger for me quite quickly... per install, what a joke...

[@nicholaslarson3778]

I was angry and sad.

[@Andy_S79]

Unity is making history the first scam engine. 😂😂😂

[@googleuser4720]

Youre a fool, 99% of indie devs dont make even close to 200K per year, so they got nothing to worry about, this is for AAA studios to pay a fee to Unity.

[@glaubergft]

I’m so annoyed by this change. I didn’t reach any of these thresholds but as you said everybody has ambitious goals. This install fee just ruined my business model.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

So sorry to hear that! Ye, even those unaffected directly will for sure feel it. And what's to say, they might change it all again? Lower thresholds and all. I am with you and hopefully we'll all get through this somehow💙💙💙

[@diligencehumility6971]

Time to change engine. I got approx 15 years of experience In Unity, they are out the window now. Looking into Unreal now

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Damn, so sorry to hear that, jeez! I am at around 10+ years and have loved it for all this time - but ye, it's just not going to be the same anymore. Will also be looking into alternatives. Unreal, Godot, Game Maker - whatever it might be 🙏🏻

[@SeanBotha]

if you make 200k in past 12 months AND sell 200k copies of your game you are not an true indie dev. most sell at most 5k when they have a popular game. This makes those pay that can afford to pay (.02 per install 0.05 if in 3rd world country)and allow those that can't MORE freedom than now to produce true indie games!!

[@ZelltisExx]

@@SeanBotha This it's a net plus, but suddenly everyone Clickbaits like they're above the threshhold 😂 It's still lower than Unreals 5% charge. The only Problem I see is with stuff like the GamePass since newly launched games are on there too, atleast with epic free games there aren't as popular anymore(except some games).

[@masterix4021]

I have heard about this fees model change about 10 min ago, watched another video. I am not even a dev with a single released game, but I will start learning Unreal now because that is just insane. No amount of rolling this back from unity will change that. It's like when you meet someone new and they say something so profoundly stupid/insane that you can't help but question their sanity and level of intelligence for ever.

[@pxlcrdgm8140]

People will flock towards Godot because of open source, we can expect Godot to grow massively if this fiasco continues

[@tkundnobody]

It looks like "Hey we have a very successful product, how can we ruin it?"

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

I mean the CEO is coming from EA... so 🤣🙃🙃

[@Ninakoru]

You did hit in the right spot, "per install" is the big issue, in the internet is common to bombing other people for different reasons, could be just to take out a rival company, this is shit.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Yep, after thinking about it some more I also realized and was able to articulate why the "per install" is so wrong: Unity is tying a $ amount to an action which does not and cannot create any additional value. If they had $0.20 per purchase, sure fine. But $0.20 per install is idiocy, as an installation is a net 0 action. I think this is one of the big issues of this price change!

[@dm1199]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe question this fee is for installs already done or installs from 1/1/24 onwards?

[@Sammysapphira]

Missinfo. Reinstalling does not incur a fee.

[@austinnafziger4159]

@@Sammysapphira Reinstalling on the same machine does not. Different machines will still have the fee. Lets say I have a main PC and a Steam Deck. Bam. 2 installs.

[@_ciraz_]

If, at this point, Unreal Engine uses the opportunity to add C#, as a secondary language, they will completely wipe out Unity.

[@kostya-m]

i also need WebGL support

[@TerminalJack505]

WebGL support and better support for 2D games.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

@@TerminalJack505 For 2D you can always use RenPy.

[@0xbenedikt]

@@TerminalJack505 Godot already does C#, WebGL and 2D games well

[@monawoka97]

I think now would be a great time to make an Unreal tutorial along the lines of "Learning unreal for former Unity developers". I have been using Unity for 8 years now. Know it through and through. I've tried to learn Unreal many times but struggle due to the poor documentation. I'd love a tutorial that teaches unreal from the perspective of "So you know how to do X in unity, here's how that works in Unreal"

[@monawoka97]

@@jocm99 I am a professional gameplay programmer and have worked in two separate proprietary AAA engines over the last 4 years. I understand "game dev programming". I spend 8 hours a day programming systems in networked inhouse engines. Based on how little sense your own comment makes, maybe you should take your own advice.... Understanding programming syntax, patterns, and core engineering principles doesn't mean you magically understand the workflows of every engine. Yes, a lot of engines implement similar core ideas. But when you need to create an animation blend tree in Unreal Engine knowing "game dev programming" doesn't grant you mystical and automatic knowledge of Unreal engine tools & workflows. Wtf are you on about.

[@yassinerobot8165]

RIP unity

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Press F to pay Runtime Fees 😔🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@Krysnha]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe F

[@duramirez]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe F

[@AkumuVids]

From what I heard, Godot is pretty good for 2d Games and Unreal is really good for 3d games. Not to mention Godot is just free, meanwhile Unreal (as you mentioned) only makes you pay if your game sells a specific number of copies. Either way you choose, it would be interesting to see tutorials on different engines.

[@alexgustavsson5955]

Why stop at per install? Make it per vCPU core, toss in per GPU core as well, those newfangled GPU's have a bunch of cores on them. How are you going to measure this? We believe we have a solution! Can I see it? NO

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Sadly too true, the fact it's all a black box is just unacceptable, even if it was somehow all open-source code and open. I still don't like the idea of paying per _install_

[@alexgustavsson5955]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe The most common pricing model is per seat, which in the gaming industry would translate to per purchase.

[@IAmAzarath]

It's crazy that they're actually tracking it, I figured it would be like Unreal where you just submit quarterly reports. Why do companies do things that are so bizarre and cannibalistic, who thought this wouldn't be a massive dumpster fire? Even if they were just testing the waters it's still going to have a huge impact on their reputation.

[@PotionOfProof]

Fun fact. The CEO sold his own stocks in the company right before pulling this stunt...he was also the CEO of EA in the past.

[@IAmAzarath]

@@PotionOfProof Yeah I saw that.

[@Axiassart]

I think it's greed

[@flamaniax5728]

@@PotionOfProofThat sounds a good bit like Insider Trading. He knows about this since he is the CEO, and selling right before they revealed it to the public... seems like an unfair advantage. But what do I know, I'm not a stock broker.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Because Greed, bro.

[@thedeveIoper]

I see a lot of security issues with their "Trust Me Bro" tracking system. What's stopping someone from simply recursing an install/uninstall operation on a cluster of VPN connected VMs to potentially delete a company? Or finding a vulnerability to increase the payload of tracked installs? This is super risky for game developers.

[@Azurantine81]

I was looking for a good excuse to try out Godot and Unity have now given me it.

[@magnusschlieben]

I am working with Unity now for 3 years and I am finally at the point where I can build my own complex games with it, but I think switching the Game-engine would not be the big problem for me, the bigger problem is to learning another Language and beginning the learning curve again also, if Unity dies, Unreal has almost the full market for itself, which leads to that there is no longer any competition against unreal, so progress would be slowed down enormously Its the same with the Hypixel Server, there so no such Server that would be competition and thats why there are so many problems which wont get fixed, 'couse the Players dont have an alternative

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Very fair! Godot seems to offer C# as well, and Unreal has some unofficial projects trying to make it work with C# - I will definitely see to covering some alternatives on the channel, but it sucks either way...

[@MaxsuelMaccari]

As a programmer for 15 years (not a game developer), I can tell you one thing: learning a new language is not too dificult as it seems, and it will enrich you as a programmer. Old concepts are reused, and you sometimes learn new concepts, and new patterns. It's normal after a few years of working for you to have learned around 5 or 6 different languages.

[@pythonxz]

​@@GameDevByKaupenjoeYup, Godot's C# support is actually really great.

[@augustday9483]

I'm also concerned about Unreal monopolizing the market. It's not good for the industry if one company (Epic) controls the only viable AAA engine. That gives them enormous power.

[@niallrussell7184]

@@pythonxz what about C# support with Android?

[@AdidasDoge]

This is going to affect indie devs so much. If they get a massive hit, they wont be able to funnel that money into starting a real game dev studio, and instead they'll be forking that cash to Unity😢

[@Sammysapphira]

That's crazy that you have to pay money to use the software that built the entire game. None of you care about 30% steam cut? But you care about pennies?

[@jaxon_hill]

​@@Sammysapphiraif your game is free and you're getting charged for every install, can't you see the problem?

[@sceerane8662]

​@@SammysapphiraSteam doesn't fucking debit you every time someone installs your game. They take a pre-agreed upon cut of the *sale* price, Like a sane company does. And like Unity SHOULD have done.

[@marumisu9560]

Even if they take it away, they could bring it back later. Even if they limit it, they can increase the amount to $1 later and make it unlimited later. They have essentially killed Unity.

[@timidonplays1599]

This is a WoTC level error.

[@Spartan322]

Pretty sure how you implement this business model ends up being illegal in majority of the US, let alone in the EU.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

It's very possible! Including the tracking of installing software. I can't imagine fingerprinting a machine whether it's already been installed is legal in the EU 🤔

[@Sammysapphira]

​@@GameDevByKaupenjoeYes it is. Don't make stuff up

[@Faunarr]

@@Sammysapphira source?

[@arjix8738]

@@Sammysapphira "Don't make stuff up" are you even replying to the correct comment? "I can't imagine xyz being legal" does not equate "xyz is illegal" the former is his own personal opinion, the latter would be expressing a fact what he did was the former, not the latter he may be wrong, but that ain't making stuff up, thats just being wrong

[@Spartan322]

@@Sammysapphira Even in the US, you'd not allow to retroactively charge someone for a service without at minimum a contract that clearly states such, and you have to actually sign such a contract, something like an EULA is not binding for business deals. (its not actually legally binding at all, but that's beside the point)

[@jonathancrowder3424]

Per install tracking is perfectly designed with no exploits

[@silvadelshaladin]

I can see spiffing brit saying that.

[@ShadowFalcon19]

Since the USFTC approved the MEGAOPOLY, I do not have hope anyone can put a stop to this. THIS IS THE DEATH OF UNITY!

[@Al_Pasha]

So glad i choose Godot to develop my game.

[@thygrrr]

Unity blocks you immediately when you are in dispute. Meaning if your game uses any Unity Services, you can't even update it. And nothing stops them from adding that same behaviour to the runtime.

[@nicholaslarson3778]

I am several years into my game dev journey, and now I have to scrap all the work I've done so far in Unity and find a new home, which will probably be Unreal. I haven't touched Unreal yet so it is going to cost me the time to learn the engine plus the time to rebuild all the work. The only good thing is I made all my own assets so they are not tied to Unity through their store, so I don't lose anything on the art and music side. The game design and story development work won't be lost either, but some of the core game systems will have to be redesigned. I am not sure how Unreal works so I don't know how my code will interact with the engine yet. C++ vs C# isn't a big deal to me, but I will have to learn the a new API and the way the engine functions. It will take the time and the mental energy I have available for studying from other topics, like developing more advanced rigs for my characters. I'll have to push that work back a bit. Unity will delay me, but not defeat me!

[@lazarushernandez5827]

I've been slowly acquiring assets, tutorials etc for both Unity and Unreal, now that I have a break from my contract work Unity decides to do this... Time to see how many assets I can repurpose for Unreal...🤷‍♂

[@kaisokusekkendou1498]

Note: if you are hitting the thresholds for this stuff, you will also be forced to upgrade to a pay per seat model (Pro, Enterprise or Industry). Note that they check against your "raised funding" as well.. so if you do a kickstarter and get a bit more than you expected, you may end up being in a cost-per-year license. This is over and above the fees being implemented. Yeah, %5 of sales is high, but it only applies to money made after the first million usd. And like was mentioned, it is stable, easy to track and understand, and only applies when you actually make money... you hust make a little less, and only if you make it big. Tying it to installs instead of sales means you could pay regardless of the money made, and now you have to decide on whether your game should stay availablr for download in the future or risk getting hit with monthly fees because people keep reinstalling the game a decade down the road... It is a "bad for industry" royalty model. I would much rather pay a % up front. Indie friendly is in the "keep your first million" clause. Plus.. don't even go with unreal. There's a lot of options on the market. This was such a terrible decision and I hope devs respond in a way that tells the industry that this kind of thing will not be tolerated.

[@lirianca]

Thanks Unity, now I need to choose another game engine. Learn it from ground, learn a new programming language. And recreate everything that I have already done in my game, which I have been working on for many years. Big thanks!

[@Machtyn]

In their latest tweet, they say this "Re-install charges - we are not going to charge a fee for re-installs." Just Trust Us, Bro.

[@user-rf2dr4gd9s]

Looking forward to learning Godot!

[@cd2028]

That sucks. I was really looking forward to using unity dots.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Ye, it's incredibly disheartening 😔Even after a reversal of the decision, I don't see them coming back from this. We'll see where it goes, but I'll for sure try other engines out for this channel 💙🙏🏻

[@ktvx.94]

8 years of experience gone to waste, same as you man I love the engine and have optimized the workflow, but I can't use it. Godot it is.

[@1.618_Murphy]

The marketing team of Unity deserves to be demoted. I'm about 95% sure that none of Unity engine devs approved this ridiculous idea!

[@MrMarttivainaa]

You know, once upon a time I fell in love with the internet. It was magic. Now I just want to build a 3 meter fence, go offline and pick up gardening or something. This doesn't even affect me personally aside from the games that are going to get pulled from stores. These suits are ruining everything I used to care about and I can only hope that one day they get what's coming to them.

[@tomasviane3844]

Also, what holds them back to change their 'price/download'. It might be 20 cts at the start, but when inflation goes up, they might charge 30 cts or whatever. Everything seems to be based on 'trust us, bro'.

[@Dustiwi]

Guess I better start learning Unreal Engine then.

[@InDieTasten]

This per-install billing is basically asking every dev for a blank check every month. They get to fill out the amount, and you have no ability to verify any of this.

[@Shakor77]

This is absolutely insane. This is truly the beginning of the end of Unity. What a shame!

[@ManoAiron]

how I didn't know this channel? haha subbed! and about the subject, I'll wait for next episodes, the whole thing is on flames yet, devs reacting, ceo answering and so on

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Hey Mano 😁 didn't expect to see you here. But agreed! We'll see where it goes - I will be off looking at other engines for this channel that's for sure 😎

[@ManoAiron]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe I'm into unity dev too, more than mine modder, I think hahahah oh wait... unity? no longer, maybe....

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

ye... 😅 it's been rough 24 hours, we'll see where this goes. But I think the alternatives are pretty awesome, excited to see what they cna do 👀

[@Rexvideowow]

I've been using Unity for years, but this is a huge. red. flag. This is financially dangerous to studios. This single decision will EASILY make studios walk away IMMEDIATELY from Unity, even if they back-peddle. They have shown their hand, so now we know that it's just a matter of time before Unity gets developers on the hook with fees. It's the fact that they are wanting to apply this retroactively as well that makes this so dangerous. The more you invest into Unity by making games with it, the more you may dig your own grave. This should be an EASY DECISION for studios if they are smart. If you are brushing this off as nothing, you are naive. Get. out. now.

[@anthonycasale1625]

Conversation must have started like this.... Unity Exec 1: How can we get more developers to use Godot? Unity Exec 2: Well, we could do something to simultaneously destroy our brand and alienate our current user base. Unity Exec 1: I love it!

[@digiross7199]

This is unity's Bud Light moment....

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

I think this is just so much worse. Bud Light was a miscalculation in their core audience. This is not a miscalculation, this is almost extortion of the people who make your product viable in the first place. It's like if Bud Light charged the canning companies for each time someone sips their can 🤣🫠

[@Derekloffin]

I think it would be better to liken this to Wizards of the Coasts recent attempt at changing their licensing for D&D properties which had very similar issues, and similarly went over like a lead balloon with the community, so badly in fact they had to completely back track. Sadly, I'm not sure Unity will similarly backtrack as there is a lot stronger lock in for software development vs what D&D had going on.

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

YOU'RE RIGHT! That's a pretty good comparison! If Unity takes another part of of WotC playbook, they will be sending the Pinkertons after all the Indie Game Devs that won't pay 😟 What kind of an dystopian hellhole is this? 😟

[@nicoli3143]

@@GameDevByKaupenjoe Bud Light was not a miscalculation; it was intentional. It's not about money - it's about sending a message. No matter how much they lost, it's still a win for them because they could humiliate their target audience and push the normalcy goal line back.

[@YupitsmeLC]

@@nicoli3143oh lord. Some of y’all really be that but hurt over a beer can 😂

[@mattconnor1438]

our team almost finished making a mobile game in unity (our first project) and unity does this......anyhow you earned my respect and a sub good sir

[@s0sDarkAngels0s]

Charge per install is just next level. Damn this hits hard. I feel sorry for the companies and indies that have been developing their next games in Unity. Now they will have to reconsider if it's even worth it to continue the project that they have spent months if not years into them.

[@gregorycanivet215]

I a unity hobbyist and cannot enjoy it till yesterday. It's like they shuttered the big dream... I feel so bad for people who invested amounts of money in a company going crazy like this...

[@nicoli3143]

The direction they are taking will destroy the entire game industry. You can't trust what they will do next after pulling such a disaster this time

[@nightwintertooth9502]

Really even as an indie studio we are vigilant about the privacy of our users and how we handle that data BECAUSE we are small and because we are more valnerable to going bankrupt in damage claims over not paying attention to this sort of thing and getting ourselves sued because we did not disclose. Having to have a fat privacy consent notification all over everything now just adds additional concern and complexity to an already scary legal place to be when we choose Unity. Yes it's easy, yes it's compatible. But how much of my players data am I now selling or shilling out in these contracts? It's getting the point where I can no longer guarantee privacy even over offline single player experiences that use the runtime. :/ Unity is making itself less and less appealing with each update.

[@raploky]

Even EA and Acti-Bliz could not see that-like monetization system in their deepest and darkest dreams lol

[@jaylenjames364]

Activision 🤔😋 💰🔥

[@Pasi123]

The CEO of Unity, John Riccitiello, came from EA. He is the guy who wanted to charge $1 to reload ammo in Battlefield. He has also said that game developers who don't prioritize monetization are f*cking idiots

[@Ryujin_IO]

Android and iOS completely lock out device fingerprinting methods for privacy reasons. There is no way Unity can accurately differentiate when an app purchased by a user is reinstalled on the same device or another device. The only persistent ID provided by the OS that is uniquely tied to the device is the advertising ID and it can ONLY be used for that purpose, and this install fee clearly falls outside of it. Advertising IDs can also be reset or disabled by users.

[@digitalHound]

my 3 months of learning unity is now all garbage lol.. i guess its time to learn c++

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Some skills are always transferrable 🙏🏻And while 3 months definitely feels like a lot, I am sure you'll be able to pick up the next thing in no time 💙💙

[@raymondf200]

what about me more than 5 years of experience. my game just got #1 win from my local events in my country :(

[@zachcake6231]

I work on a big game made in unity, this is absolutely wild and even larger studios who use unity this is MASSIVE amounts of money, like a massive budget shift amount of money.

[@fernefer1071]

well time to switch to godot ?

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Probably ye! I am already thinking about maybe making a "first look at" engines from a long time Unity Dev's perspective 🤔 And then maybe tutorials on those engines at some point, but it's a big setback 🫠

[@kronusbr17]

just do it @@GameDevByKaupenjoe

[@RemyRivers]

Yes please

[@alexkowel]

As for the web, native WebGL engines, like Verge3D, Three.js, etc starting to look an even more attractive option now.

[@gabort4555]

Is it not possible that Unity was sold behind the curtains and the the new brand will be called X? Or maybe the new owner will say: "Why I need this crap? Let's call it Y."

[@toryip]

I agree , I feel like I have wasted years of my life on an app and now having to Jump to something else like GODOT of Unreal , its soul destroying...

[@dannymac653]

Even if they rolled this back, I would still be hesitant to use Unity because you won't be able to trust them.

[@lukasgruber1280]

with the current CEO and board you definitely can not. There is only a small window for redemption if everyone in the management gets replaced immediately.

[@user-ym1tf1uo1h]

if people put up with it, imagine how it might affect in the future. after all, this is a precedent, and if companies wipe their feet on us and see that they are still making a profit, then we will see this in different interpretations everywhere

[@DanialBarazandeh]

It's been two years since I used Unity for any project. I always liked to perfect documentation and the easy learning curve for C#. But it has been so long since Unity added any significant features like Unreal did, and now, with a new price tag, I won't ever open that software again. At this point, they are just giving up!

[@aronlinde1723]

I feel there is a good space in Godot right now for Setup and Basic build tutorials. UE5 seems to have much more established for tutorial videos.

[@tanthokg]

Yesterday if someone asked me whether "install bomb" is a type of attack, I'd suggest them to get a mental health check. Now imagine Unity themselves "install bomb", there's nothing to stop them from doing that, basically unlimited money, especially no one knows how they count it, and when you reinstall/pirate the game it still counts.

[@thygrrr]

GG, no re. Thank you for nothing, Unity. You owe me 15 years of my life. (well. 7 years, technically, had 8 years of non-unity projects in between)

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Damn man, so sorry to hear 🙏🏻💙 Hope, you'll be able to transfer some of those skills over to other engines 🙏🏻

[@Jan12700]

1:27 EA did try this with some games like Spore, there you could only activate a game three times... (also EA had in this time the same CEO as Unity now has)

[@mbevinn]

Unity is dead even if they backtrack. All trust is lost - who is going to build a game and business based on top of Unity, when you never know when they might decide to change the terms retroactively and charge you for every install of that game some day, and when you've built everything on top of it your only way to avoid the new charges is to kill your product and all the work you've put into it (or rebuild it from scratch using something else). You can't base your product on something that can change it's terms like this and apply these terms to past use of their product. If they wanted to create some new Unity 2.0 with some new features with some new fees if you choose to use it - fine. But if you built an app with the old Unity Editor, accepting the terms at that time, they shouldn't years later be able to say that now you have to start paying them money for all installs of that app, even if you're maybe not even developing with Unity anymore - you just paid for and used Unity to develop the app years ago when these fees didn't exist, and now suddenly they want to charge you for every install of that app you built???

[@Ezpz_omi]

this news made me tear up for the Unity devs :( Big Hug

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Ye, it's a shame. There's hundreds, probably thousands of people and families who have poured years into games and Unity, just to be absolutely slapped in the face like that... It's such a shame 😔🙏🏻

[@lautarogomez9711]

​@@GameDevByKaupenjoethis is why people must burn down the companies they used to believe in. For is their own mistake

[@johnnygreen37]

it is also really cool to know that John Riccitiello Sold a lot his Unity Stocks before announcing those amazing changes to the company....

[@retconned4092]

after this change i switched to unreal, haven't spent alot of time with it yet but the nanite system is pretty neat it functions as a procedural real-time LOD from just a single model, there is also the blueprint system which functions as an alternative to writing code and instead using a node system to build code from automatically and so far i like the layout and controls better than unity

[@sourkefir]

If they add C# support they will obliterate Unity from existence

[@mad_t]

I'm finishing my current project (which I doubt will reach the threshold) and I'm moving to Godot. This is bs... Someone in unity tech really gone crazy

[@Rai2M]

I literally have no words to describe that warm feeling inside. If frustration is 1, anger is 2, rage is 3 then... what's in between 52 and 60? I'm so tired of running into the walls.

[@PwnySlaystation01]

I'm not even sure you can say it doesn't affect people who don't meet the threshold.... Unity has just told you that they can change the pricing model at any time, even for games you've ALREADY RELEASED... So what's the risk? Will they change the threshold tomorrow? Will they increase the per install cost? The answer is probably, but you don't know how much or when. So releasing any game in Unity is a risk.

[@lt_rainbowslash58]

It’s a hell of a thing when the software you’ve spent your whole adult life learning to use decides to jump off a cliff. I give it 90% chance this gets reversed, but I don’t care. When a company pulls this shit, you realize they’ve lost touch and you can’t trust them anymore. Time to finish this last project and go learn another engine I guess.

[@padaka80085]

Oh I think switching to Godot tutorials will apply to a lot of people from now on... Me and my friend have been making a game in unity as a passion project but now we're considering switching to Godot and I doubt we'll be the only ones.

[@rotgruengelb]

Getting Flashbacks from Rust Foundation. And the Whole Twitter Chaos. Why is this the Year of bad Marketing, PR and Sales Decisions?

[@lautarogomez9711]

because is human nature to seek being more idiots

[@emmanuelplante787]

Stocks are really high right now, they sell shares short, bomb the companys share value then refund the shorted shares back and keep the difference. Shorting is selling stocks that you don't own with the promise of buying them back later. This is legal and confusing to most people, so people don't complain and it keeps being done.

[@murftg]

im happy this doesn't really affect me - I was planning on switching to Unreal Engine when I made the move to 3D anyway

[@fakeusertas721]

Godot Stride3D Flax Engine

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

Ooh, have not heard about Stride3D before, definitely will take a look at it though 😁😁🙏🏻

[@clewis4744]

I upgrade my PC about every 10 to 5 years. I reinstall Windows quite frequently as I also use Linux they dont play nicely always. So each time I build or rebuild ... I guess it says its a new install. A per sales, everyone would be happy. I have been trying to learn Unity for 2 to 3 years. I have bought loads of Unity Assets and course and enjoyed Unity's free course. I will now carefully consider buying anything more off the Unity Asset Store. I really want to develop on PC and Android. Why would I do a gaming in Unity now? I am inexperienced enough to start again and to rip up what I have dones so far. What I have learnt coul;d be transposed to Unreal or Godot. They have killed off the Unity Asset Store too if threy keep this nonsense. PLEASE GODOT tutorials!!!

[@Larry3D]

I will never invest time learning Unity again. The trust is gone and will never come back.

[@rajshashank202]

lets just make a open source game engine, ohh wait there are 2, unreal and godot

[@07vShorts]

Unreal is availabe source, not quite Open Source. Godot is FOSS (Free and Open Source). For example Unreal still takes a cut and doesnt let you re-release the engine, while Godot is fully free and lets you do whatever with the source.

[@rajshashank202]

@@07vShorts yeah I know, yet the thing is that unity (for some reason) is requiring contacts perms for unity remote 5 (a software which small indie devs use to make android/ios game) and shits like this doesn't happen directly in unreal its just unreal's launcher that is crap/bloatware/spyware

[@Z_Z.t]

I know that Unity and Godot shares C# language, but Its really looks onesided when people starts to say that Godot is a great choice. Sometimes I find that Godot was literally missing on some exotic, but mandatory features that allow more flexibility inside the engine without modifying the actual code, so for those who seeks new engine I'd rather recommend to look into Godot and other engines (like Bevy, Hazel, UniEngine, Unreal Engine, Wiked Engine). For me Godot is not a great choice because of its not so flexible render model (its not about Vulkan, Its about the way of how things implemented in the engine)

[@antonvoltchok7794]

Would’ve loved to be in the room when this decision was made, cons: pissed off customers, high potential class action lawsuit, complete destruction of public image/brand, massive future revenue and customer loss, pros: well there’s some short term profit and we’re not gonna be here in a couple years so let’s gooooo!

[@mika-racing]

That’s how almost every industry works right now, sadly.

[@sabriboughanmi2435]

We've dedicated 5 years to our current project, and the recent announcement of the Unity runtime fee has significantly disrupted our business plan. Despite our 6+ years investment in its development (including learning unity itself...) , we've actively considered migrating to Unreal Engine. we were waiting for features like ECS Animation or Ability System.., Instead, we were met with the frustrating introduction of this non sens and greedy runtime fee.

[@Sick_Pencil]

So sorry to hear that. I invested on Unity since April and did progress on my own game. Now, I see I have to start over moving to UE I feel frustrated. I can't imagine how frustrating this decision is for you folks already invested years and nearing publish.

[@Kconv1]

Here is a question , will developers have to update their installers to sabotage to stop installs on games that have passed their heavy sales periods to stop future installs.

[@kefpull6676]

I love when success is punished, really inspires innovation ♥

[@Sammysapphira]

Crazy that you need to pay for software when you massively profit from it.

[@mistergibly62]

I just made my first ever game and the day that I click publish this pops up. Unreal sure does look juicy right now.

[@logan4179]

Instead of Unity runtime fee, let's start calling this the "Unity runaway-time fee".

[@GameDevByKaupenjoe]

BRILLIANT! 🤣🤣🤣

[@MrHandsy]

The CEO came from a game publisher to destroy competition, make money from it's destruction, and then leave.

[@DefenDefault4]

This is so scary and horrible. I hope this plan will get discontinued.

[@Dominik-K]

Thanks for the rant. I really hope they'll change this up because the way they just changed the rules, just broke my trust

[@SkepticalChris]

The scariest thing, is that Unity themselves, can rig the per install system, by themselves having their own staff install-uninstall-install the games over and over and over if they want more money or write a macro or script to do it to punish a developer, while still lining their pockets. There has to be mass call to arms of developers, gamers and streamers to take action

[@animeshrine]

I'm the guy who posted the "Is this an out of season April Fool's Joke" lol. I was actually one of the first licensed Unity devs in 2016 when they started doing the license tests in person. From 2015 until 2021 I was a Unity dev making product and AR/VR experiences for brands using Unity. Had an AR tracker experiance headline a huge display at thr Javits and built a Hololens demo for the head of Pepsico...yeah, Unity shot themselves so bad here. The reason why I stopped in 2021 was because the jobI had, which started to pivot to chatbots (but still had a Unity aspect to it) got sabatoged by people in the ad firm space of NYC. They were livid GDPR eroded what they were able to grab from people via trackers. It would seem they got into Unity after it went public and since devs werent using Unity Analytics enough (to where the Unity CEO called devs "fucking idiots")...they decided to force the tracking in as the stock continues to tumble. Not only will they potentially get tons of extra money from fleecing devs, their ad investor buddies will get juicy data on everyone so they can sell it. Its insane

[@Sick_Pencil]

The more I read about Unity's situation and decision, the more I'm certain jumping from the sinking ship the soonest is the best decision.