Did Urahara know about Old Man Zangetsu?

[@daveTHEdirty]

Bro Ichigo was just a walking Wikipedia article that aizen and urahara kept editing.

[@genkei588]

Underrated comment

[@PeaceAndQuiet._.]

Great explanation

[@takumifujiwara300]

bleach plot shortened

[@SGC_jjplays]

😂

[@KiraSlith]

Oh my void, that is the BEST way you could've described that.

[@Grayson-Winchester]

Urahara also had faith in Ichigo. He understands that nobody would ever achieve something if they don’t ever take any risks. And Urahara genuinely cares for Ichigo and his friends. What he can’t do Ichigo, Orihime, ect can

[@00yiggdrasill00]

I do think it's important to note the trust Ichigo and urahara place in each other. Ichigo took a gamble on him with the training, but by the time of hueco Mundo they are firm allies. Ichigo needs help and urahara rocks up, urahara needs help and Ichigo is willing to help shoulder that.

[@Grayson-Winchester]

@@00yiggdrasill00 exactly. This is why it makes me mad that people try to turn Urahara into a secret villain here. He’s a scientist so he’s naturally curious but he’d never do experiments on living subjects that torture them. At least not after he was exiled from soul society. Life in the human world took a toll on him. He just wants to help as best as he can and besides wants to be live in peace at his candy shop.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

@@Grayson-Winchester yes I find the "villain urahara" thing to be tiresome at the best of times. I don't actually he's done much unethical study given he established the research division and had control of it. He outright tried to put Mayuri to use while keeping an eye on him. He's also an assassin so that may play into people's thoughts on him, but it's important to note that until he was exiled he likely had little say in his targets. That's just a fact of life in the military, especially one that doesn't allow questioning of orders. Even hitsugaya had to investigate the execution quietly till it all blew up. Even his most questionable act, removing rukia's shinigami powers with a gigai, was to prevent a war they may not win. And even then it was in a method of giving her a living life. Because let's not kid ourselves, if he was willing to do ANYTHING he likely could have dealt with the hogyoku in some fashion well before he tried to. Being a scientist who had a shady job and being a minor pervert does not make you evil.

[@Bingotaco]

It's also worth noting that the only time he did something that actually was shady, he apologized profusely for it. Since that point, he has been a true and reliable ally

[@Georg3e]

He'd probably say trust

[@AuraTale]

Even if Ichigo transformed into a Hollow, he knew how to at least turn Ichigo into a Vizard. Urahara was the one that subjugated the hollow sides of the Vizards to begin with.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

Technically the proper term would be Arrancar since he would have became a hollow first

[@AlphagonOmegarius]

​@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena that would be a dope "what if" ngl

[@quickbust4879]

​@@AlphagonOmegarius If I remember correctly there's a couple fanfics using that as the plot.

[@ThePigKnight]

“Whoops. Ok so we’re gonna introduce Arrancars a little earlier than I expected.”

[@jacobweatherford4696]

​@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena i mean he could have still made him a vizard if he was fast enough to prevent his complete hollowfication.

[@Popeyes_warrior]

Urahara is simply the goat

[@nino9321]

Is he animal?

[@Popeyes_warrior]

@@nino9321 no when people say “oh he’s the goat” that basically means he’s the best

[@nino9321]

@@Popeyes_warrior but yorichi is a cat, so urahara can be a goat or cow

[@Popeyes_warrior]

@@nino9321 I think I just had a stroke reading your comment

[@nino9321]

@@Popeyes_warrior call ambulance

[@xegin1572]

My personal opinion is that Urahara being an expert on Hollowfication, knew that Ichigo's Shinigami and Hollow side would have fused together and, as a consequence, that bringing out the Hollow side would also bring out his Shinigami side. This is shown by the fact Ichigo didn't turn into a Hollow the way a regular human soul does, but instead started Hollowfying the way a Shinigami does. From there, all Ichigo had to do was to tip the balance in the right direction, which Urahara trusted he'd do. And Urahara being who he is, he probably had a contingency plan to prevent Ichigo from completely turning into a Hollow in case he failed (again, Hollowfication expert).

[@freddiefackelmayer5267]

Honestly it's probably just a retcon. I don't think Kubo had all the hybrid quincy shinigami keikaku shenanigans planned so early in the manga.

[@xegin1572]

@@freddiefackelmayer5267 I believe he did since first apparition of White Zangetsu there are several elements foreshadowing his true identity.

[@freddiefackelmayer5267]

@@xegin1572 not gonna deny that he probably had a rough narrative outline for the whole story and I think he's even said as much during interviews before. But my impression is that just by the nature of a serialized weekly manga you don't have all the interconnected details in place, 500 chapters later. Especially in the very early part of the manga run. I mean you can be canceled at any time, you have no idea if it's gonna be popular and if it'll stay that way.

[@xegin1572]

@@freddiefackelmayer5267 I get it. However, in my opinion, the prelude to the Soul Society arc is the moment he truly started thinking long term, and putting foreshadowing elements that aren't too obvious so that it won't look like it led nowhere should the manga end prematurely.

[@cadennewsome4926]

he had a hunch😭

[@ishitmyself6772]

This guy has given me a new appreciation for bleach the way he answers and connects everything

[@killuazoldyk2727]

No Bleach story would ever happen without Goat Urahara

[@nino9321]

@@killuazoldyk2727 why goat? Maybe cow?

[@RG-df2lr]

Ichibei had been working the scenes. He blacked out ywhabahs name when old man zangetsu tried telling ichigo who he was

[@thetimkazakh.624]

Especially Karakura Raizer!!

[@Vineethajojo]

Just as I planned

[@livonlord]

In one of the scenes as Ichigo was hollowfying, Ururu was initiating a contingency plan to save Ichigo until Urahara stopped her. Considering the body is supposed to explode first when turning into a hollow and reform, the fact that they had a plan to save him even after that point makes me feel like Ichigo was not in any real danger. Urahara might have planned to let him almost hollowfy and save him again and again until his Shinigami powers manifested. When he saw the mask forming first instead, that might have been the confirmation he needed in order to know his Shinigami and hollow powers were already a set.

[@maalikserebryakov]

Good catch.

[@maalikserebryakov]

@@livonlord makes sense Urahara wanted ichigo to rescue the Hogyoku (Rukia) Fat chance he would let his own pawn be destroyed.

[@MyNamesHunter75]

While I do think he could save him I doubt it be a thing that can be done over and over especially at that point for ichigo. More likely he would have resulted in trying to figure out a way to awaken his quincy powers if it failed because I assume it would be lethal to just try and do the hollowfication over and over especially because it would destroy his spirt

[@RizingHorizon]

Ichigo’s life was planned by Aizen who went by Urahara’s plans

[@WanderingSoul7000]

Little did they know, that Kon was the true mastermind.

[@muhammadnursyahmi9440]

Well, you know what the old fans say: All actions taken by Gotei 13 followed the plans set by Aizen, but Aizen (unknown to him) followed the plans laid out by Urahara.

[@UCN_player]

Urahara is homies with kubo thats why

[@LaWx_ArT]

I love how Ichigo was legit a group project

[@skykid]

There's a long running tradition of depicting the scheming scientist as villainous or at least out of touch and callous, humbled by the forces of nature or perhaps the heroes' pathos. But in Urahara we see defiance of that trope, he is definitely a schemer, he definitely manipulates people, and he's even selfish about certain outcomes and risks. But he genuinely wants the good ending, for everyone to be happy, and for the young heroes to succeed. It's a rare but extremely compelling trope in certain manga, we might consider them anti-villains perhaps, people who don't think everyone being honest and trying hard will be quite enough to defeat what's stacked against them, so they're willing to dirty their hands a little behind the scenes with duplicity and deception to steer destiny. Other examples that come to mind are Shigure from Fruits Basket and Yukimura Sanada from Samurai Deeper Kyo

[@GhettoJohnWick]

Nah, an anti villain would do good, but their goals are evil

[@sky20nyc]

Kisuke wants a good ending, only if that ending is in the service of the soul society and the status quo.

[@themanwhocantbemovedbyatru1988]

​@@sky20nyc on that part, Urahara can't really touch them all because of one person. And that is Ichibei. Unlike Aizen who got the Hougyoku keeping him alive, he wouldn't be able to survive fighting Ichibei. Hell, he can just erase him without even moving away at the palace just like how Ichibei erased Zangetsu's name.

[@patrickforney8202]

I wonder if Yoruichi knew about the connection between him and Yhwach. During his bankai she literally saw him

[@reineOdelshwank]

Yoruichi is way too young to have seen Yhwach. and Zangetsu was a Young version of Yhwach, so he didnt look a lot like him.

[@Bambaguetta925_]

It makes sense that urahara would knew that Ichigo is a hybrid of all races from the very start however i doubt he knows about the existence of OMZ particularly.

[@777Dasan]

Bro dropping W theories at 4 AM

[@xegin1572]

Urahara is responsible for Ichigo's birth in more than one way. On Klub Outside, Kubo said that offspring between human and Shinigami is normaly impossible and that "only Kisuke knows a way".

[@humayunkabir4814]

Now I understand why didn't ichiruki not became a thing.

[@xegin1572]

@@humayunkabir4814 Ironically, he gave that information while answering a question about Rukia.

[@xegin1572]

@-shVdy- For Ichigo's sibiling Kisuke probably helped too. For Ginjo as far as we know he doesn't have a Shinigami as a parent, some Shinigami powers were transfered to him the same way Rukia did to Ichigo. For Kazui either Urahara helped or Ichigo has enough Quincy in him for this not to be an issue.

[@Bingotaco]

​@@xegin1572for Kazui I'd expect the answer has nothing to do with shinigamis and quincies, and instead is just because Ichigo has a living body of his own rather than a gigai

[@xegin1572]

@@Bingotaco Yeah, that actually makes more sense.

[@fwnex]

Aizen is the reason ichigo was born

[@milenkovacevickelvinmedrano]

Aizen _and_ Urahara. The plot is their game.

[@PROFESSOR_TV]

Bleach is so fucking great

[@milenkovacevickelvinmedrano]

Yes but it could be better.

[@Xeno_Solarus]

​@@milenkovacevickelvinmedrano Debbie Downer over here.

[@milenkovacevickelvinmedrano]

@@Xeno_Solarus I mean, everything can be criticised and all has some flaws...

[@Xhim-m9k]

Urahara just knows that Ichigo is the mc

[@ironkesh]

Ichigo has been Urahara’s test subject since pre-conception. Continuing his hogyoku project without the use of a hogyoku. Always 1 step ahead of Aizen

[@strider_hiryu850]

i guess the answer is: he knew Ichigo was half Quincy, and that his Quincy powers might manifest themselves internally as a Zanpakuto Spirit-like entity. but he did not know the name, nor the personality. did he "know" about OMZs existence? "know" is a strong word. he had an inkling. a hunch. a gut feeling, like instinct.

[@solarwind]

I think it's precisely because he's so smart. He understands that sometimes you have to risk things in order to get results. This was something eyes and didn't do. We see that he'd prefer to literally use a complete calculated method where he has absolute control over all variables and we see in the end I think it actually results in his defeat

[@agentbluegaming7709]

Something to note, and might've been overlooked despite how weird it was, was Urahara deciding to wait until Ichigo began turning into a hollow and noted "this is the best moment for him to regain his powers" which is weird, right? If you wanted to regain your powers, it should be before turning into a hollow, many others in that room were under that impression and acted like turning into a hollow, even starting the process was bad. But urahara was just like "Nah, this is the perfect moment for him, let him cook." It could've been a nothing throwaway line, but still weird to think about imo.

[@CountLurchalot]

Kisuke is like a reverse John Snow. John snow knows nothing Kisuke knows everything

[@robertwolfgan]

This adds up.

[@jinshadshebin2142]

Wtf it’s obvious after all he is one of the authors🗿🐐

[@Kingofdeadpool]

I always interpreted it as he had a rough idea that something in ichago was off but didn't know exactly what. Like he knew ichigo was a half Quincy but didn't know about old man zangetsu or thought maybe due to the strain of fusing with his Shikagami powers caused his inner hollow to look old

[@deepfriedbananane]

The day tgey revealed what old man zangetsu is, that is the day my heart is broken. Old man zangetsu is real homies from day 1 😢

[@URAHARA_FX_106]

OREVA.. SAIKYO DA!!!!! 🛐🛐🛐

[@Bananapig9]

I figured that since Urahara knew about Ichigo’s lineage and both his parents that he could make a safe assumption that Ichigo’s Quincy powers would manifest in some way. Not necessarily that it would manifest as Old Man Zangetsu but when he found that out I imagine he figured that it was actually Yhwach taking the form of Ichigo’s zanpakuto

[@williammiller9813]

He's a true scientist!

[@justinrivera1618]

I’m pretty sure he had a feeling the second Ichigo pulled a sword from thin air

[@kakashihatake1029]

Yhwach really said "you cant see me!"

[@KING_KIWI2000]

Ahhh good old hat and clogs the true godfather to ichigo 😂

[@redlbd8916]

Feels so weird to see Urahara Kisuke without his legendary hat 😮

[@MyNamesHunter75]

Urahara is smart but he is smart and willing to take risk. His risk was entrusting ichigos survival on himself which is and was something out of his control he takes calculated risk he isn't 100% avoidant of it. Urahara likely also knew the potential ichigo could reach within reason due to his parents and his unique situation making him very similar to the soul king

[@kerbethegodkiller2914]

My guess is 1. Urahara didn't properly know about OMZ but probably had a theory that his inner world would represent his Quincy side somehow And 2. Since he knows of ichigo's inner hollow, witnessing his strength and determination, and being the expert on hollowification that he is, he probably knew Ichigo would either not turn into s hollow or suppress it, and even if it came out it would be a boost of power for ichigo, after all even before the vizored came into play white saved Ichigo a couple of times

[@adarshkamoda9183]

Aizen and Urahara make other stalkers look like kids throwing a tantrum. They probably know every molecule of Ichigo's genetic make-up from birth to present.

[@Apoc_Bone_Daddy]

According to the hentai I read, urahara also helped create Ichigo along with Isshin and Yoruichi

[@gabrieldevoogel6225]

It’s more like Keisuke knew bare minimum Shiro couldn’t live without a vessel, so he’d need to keep Ichigo around, that’s why he’s an Asauchi and not a full hollow

[@SushiAddiction]

I think people often forget that zangetsu white did care about ichigo. He probably risked the idea that white would simply return the body back to ichigo even if ichigo had failed

[@dustysgap4297]

Of course Urahara “Plot Device” Kisuke knew.

[@ZrusoEruption]

It's funny that aizen and urahara considered the smartest in their verse were both the reasons ichigo was born

[@damiansalcedo3067]

I don't think he knew bc he was shocked about how the halofication was happening. He explained that first, the body is destroyed, and rebuilt before the mask. While Ichigo's mask was trying to form first. Then, when Ichigo emerged, Urahara was ready to fight/kill him until he removed the mask.

[@xuangiabachnguyen4526]

Yoruichi was aware of old man Zangetsu during Ichigo’s Bankai training, therefore Urahara definitely knows as well

[@Reppen555]

considring that he choose to personally train ichigo i think its very possible that he knew the true power behind ichigo's zanpukto. old man zangetsu himself!

[@Natsukikurosaki98]

Uruhara basically set out most of the story lines aside kubo 😂

[@minimountain31m1]

we're just too dumb to comprehend his smartness ✅

[@crisscore157]

That would mean 2 people outside off his family know everything about ichigo, or at least a lot

[@SARGENTKILLER43]

But yourichi saw him during his bankai training. Im sure she noticed and would have told him lol

[@MarvinHaven]

The thing I wonder is was Urahara always suspicious of Aizen The anger Aizen showed at him after being sealed didn't seem just about that moment He was smiling when Gin tried to attack him knowing it was coming I'm sure he thought Urahara would either not get directly involved or join him The anger he showed was not like his reaction to anyone else led me to thinking that he probably suspected that Urahara was suspicious of him but wasn't able to gadge what the result would be

[@muchoyurdem5260]

He obviously can't know about Old Man, but he def made a hypothesis based on him knowing Ichigo is a Quincy. Sadly, he could never clarify his hypothesis, but what's ironic is that he could've if he would've seen Ichigo training for Bankai when he manifested Old man. Except he has never seen how Yhwach looks like

[@idk-ut7tu]

Maybe because urahara knew that if his hollow power came out it will automatically activate his shinigami power to balance his powers

[@jasonrelech1020]

Aizen knew urahata would help ichis mom😂😂😂it's all in the blue print of Aizens plan.

[@Craigswab]

Urahara literally stated that the hallow in ichigo’s mom would be passed down form each generation

[@menace007]

So Urahara basically knew Ichigo was the main character of the show.

[@jrsanders1212]

You asked a question and then answered it with, "possibly, but if not kinda."

[@Indic4Zone]

urahara somehow helped to make a "perfect" substitute to soul king, maybe even stronger, since ichigo could go toe to toe with yhwach, ichigo had something soul king didnt, a hollow power, ichigo's version of "the almighty" will have 5 pupils, while soul king has 4 pupils

[@reineOdelshwank]

Urahara knew about White, and based on the Vizards, he wanted White to awaken in order for ichigo to become stronger.

[@Gdizzy101]

There are different reitsus for each class. Hollow, quincy, shini. Those who are extremely well versed in reitsu know the difference, so he would be at least able to sense this. Also why the most well versed reitsu captains and the captain commander didn't trust ichigo

[@Aldarandir]

Uncomfortable truth. Urahara placed his hokyoku in Rukia’s giga and Ichigo was his only option to get it back when she was arrested. Everything leading up to Aizen’s invasion is his fault.

[@Judlam]

Uruhara is the one who contributed the most of the group project than aizen hahahaha

[@elaizakaguya4631]

TBH they both did thesame If aizen had killed isshin before masaki came or killed them both there would be no Ichigo😂

[@Judlam]

@@elaizakaguya4631 "mostly" i know aizen also contributed but what I'm saying is uruhara was the one who contributed a lot

[@dsshadow0075]

Urahara was the reason y ichigo was born 💀💀

[@geraldnyundo8523]

Did uharara train Ichigo knowing that Ichigo could be forced to become the next soul king?

[@joecroft4274]

I'm not gonna lie, I think Urahara knew that Ichigo wasn't going to become a Hollow. Like knew that he wouldn't turn into a hollow regardless of if he succeeded or not. It was moreso a test for Ichigo's will and ability at that point than him awakening.

[@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716]

I doubt aizen or urahara knew about ichigo quincy powers manifesting as yhwach 1000's ago, until yoroichi saw him during the bankai training

[@ThatOneANIM8ER]

I have a theory I want you to do. Just like ichigo, could the other vizards potentially turn into a vasto lorde hollow.

[@joels5150]

Given his role in Ichigo’s conception and fusing of Hollow, Quincy, and Shinigami natures; I wonder if Urahara is secretly Ichigo’s godfather? Seems a small recognition that Ichigo’s parents might have felt warranted 🤷‍♀️

[@AgarioSplitrunner]

New theory: We can theorize that Ichigo won all those battles, because Aizen's houkjoku made Aizen's wish to make Ichigo stronger, a reality. The first time that an anime character doesn't need plot armor. But. We later learn that Urahara also had a hogyoku at the time of Ichigo's transformation. This second Hogyoku probably made success a reality when Ichigo transformed into a SR + faith manipulation stronger than Rimuru.

[@ranibro]

Yoruichi saw Ywa when she was training Ichigo for Bankai, did she now know how he looked like?

[@abhishekbora3374]

So both Urahara and aizen were playing with ichigo 😂😂😂

[@Bambaguetta925_]

Aside from the topic Ichigo's life would be endangered from the moment he was born as he's a soul king candidate and even if hypothetical ichigo would never awaken his powers and were never to involve with soul reapers, yhwach would eventually kill soul king and urahara would use ichigo as soul king

[@AbuYousfi]

If we had to choose 3 news Divison Zero member (in place of Senjumaru, Tenjiro and Hikifune) I would have choose Urahara first, and then, maybe, Isshin and Yoruichi.

[@zen25]

I wholeheartedly believe Urahara is the final boss

[@iamlordapollo]

Uh here's the issue with that. The experimental gigai thing that Ichigo used to attain bankai in 3 days with yoruichi was supposed to force the zanpakuto spirit into reality... Except old man zangetsu was the one that appeared. Not white. I don't even have any explanation or justification for this. It's just a straight plot hole. Maybe the device malfunctioned? Or had the ability to draw out a Quincy's inner ywach also he just never tested it. That pretty much proves that all Quincy have an inner ywach inside them if they ever went into their inner world, they just don't know because that's not a thing quincies do

[@manikandankrishnan6398]

It's simple isshin reason to exist in human world with gigai is to supress the hollow power of kurosakis ,chances of ichigo turning into hollow will be less and also considering ichigo capabilities uraharas act made sense

[@altoid3453]

Urahara has a plan Either turn him into a soup reaper He awakens his quincy powers Or he turns into a hollow and hed find a way to make him an arancar

[@gama9672]

I have a question how so many quincy was alive after the quincys death from yhwach power. How yawach built a army of quincys

[@dusttoh8927]

The entity is Kubo.

[@Vineethajojo]

Two steps ahead

[@bambuu2305]

If you think about it doesn´t every quincy have the power of yhwach. Ichigo is only able to see his true form because he also has shinigami powers and can enter his inner world, where they are both one. I don´t think quincys can do this, so they are never able to see their power?

[@TheSlammurai]

Ichigo is lucky Yoruichi is the only person to ever see OMZ during his Bankai training. If Yamamoto or Unohana had ever seen him, Ichigo would be beyond fucked.

[@preme8003]

That’s actually crazy to think about lol

[@sarlarnsulonundedesi5913]

urahara overvalued.

[@TheDeadCobraTheDeadCobra]

Urohara did not helped him regain his borrowed powers he helped him to awaken Ichigos true powers

[@Zedefcorp]

Ez answer, Urahara have never seen yhwatch before

[@dogeknightthefirst9253]

Ofc he knew about the hollow he gave ishin his body

[@6sixty1gixxer80]

So who's experiment was better and original kisukes or aizen

[@Cyno7]

Urahara as the ultimate final boss. The greatest lore in anime history.

[@RankFish7]

Maybe zangetsu didn't want ichigo dead was because hes just a part of yuwah and considering yuwah saw all future he wanted ichigo to kill soul king and wanted him alive Thats some Aizen level sh*t

[@Rojfhagfg0sj1037]

I jus spoiled myself. I'm at volume 58 and now I'm cooked

[@killuazoldyk2727]

Get off social media and read the manga in one sitting bro

[@Rojfhagfg0sj1037]

@@killuazoldyk2727 I did but it got boringuhhh

[@GuilhermeScuderi]

it's not even faith If he knew that It wasn't even a risk

[@LenskyAuguste]

Kubo didn't think of tybw at that time

[@killuazoldyk2727]

He planned TYBW in first 50 chapters with the inclusion of young Yhwach and TYBW war was a setting

[@armanozyurt5051]

it is impossible that urahara didnk know that

[@Ghost.0_0.17]

Man just a question ashiro was locked in prison so why didn't they release them as he had broken bankai . You said that he was alive and prisoned

[@PhillyEbron]

Ok so what if urahara is the reason for hells door open because he was using Ichigo or his son to open the path to hell and have whoever that was ordering him to open the door and so ultimate hell God can come to the living world

[@Dogmaguy74]

Urahara and Aizen are two sides of the same coin.

[@keitwo834]

Urahara knew but not kubo

[@kolarov2__]

Dawg ofc he knows bcs hes the one who told Isshin (sr) to marry Masaki (q) who had hollow inside her

[@raphaelaugusto895]

What about the bankai training episode, where Old Zangetsu greets Urahara? That ep isn't canon?