Did V'GER Create The Borg or did The Borg Create V'GER?

[@manlystranger4973]

Obviously, Skynet created both V'ger and the Borg. Jobe from the Lawnmower Man created Skynet. Joshua from Wargames created Robocop. In the yet to be made feature film starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, William Shatner, and Peter Weller - Star Trek: TerminatorCop - a Terminator sent back in time will materialize inside and meld with Robocop, who will save humanity with the help of the Enterprise crew from multiple clones of the Borg Queen.

[@jonforris]

The makers of The Rings of Power want to hire you as their lead writer.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Now I would pay good money to see that movie! 🤣

[@manlystranger4973]

@@jonforris First thing I will do the minute my first paycheck clears is to refocus the entire series on the breakout character the original writers failed to add, Baby Gollum. This character will serve as both a MacGuffin with all other characters motivated by an undeniable need to possess it and as a deus ex machina to pull the protagonists' butts from the fire after long involved impossible to escape set ups by the antagonists. Depending on ratings going into mid-season, I may also add a couple of teenage sparkly vampires and/or a lovable robot.

[@patrickperalta59]

@@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast since you mentioned the 2 Real Voyager probes..it made me wonder why NASA didn't send one of the probes past Pluto to see if there was indeed a 10 planet.......and Yes I considered Pluto a planet...no matter what anyone else thinks...........anyway that would settle the question once and for all......from what I heard they sent both probes in different directions not even checking to see if a 10 planet was past Pluto.

[@vicarnagra7135]

@@manlystranger4973 Oh, I cant wait for the sequels....the prequels.....the origin story...WAIT, would the origin story be in the future or the past????

[@G74]

My headcanon is that Voyager 6 was sent both to a distant galaxy and millions of years into the past, and that the machine planet it crashed on is none other than Cybertron. It'll never become canon i know but I still like the idea, and yes i know we're talking about two different fictional universes here.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That's great! I always joked that the Machine Planet was Cybertron.

[@TF80s]

I wish Unicron's origin had remained a mystery in Transformers like V'ger's did in ST.

[@shadowpoet4398]

It fell into a black hole (or a wormhole, really) and emerged millions of years into the past in a primitive planet populated by living machines. It's always time fuckery, ain't it?

[@tristansmith5587]

It can still be canonical, both were owned by IDW comics at the same time. Think you'll find they Trek, TF, GI Joe, and Dr. Who are all in the same universe because of it.

[@robinarmstrong685]

There is a Transformers v Star Trek comic book. The Enterprise transforms!

[@bonusbaby801]

I was in a DREADFUL County jail when I found a copy of Star Trek: The Return & Star Trek: Engines Of Destiny on what they called a library cart. THANK GOODNESS I found those books. Made my time MUCH MORE TOLERABLE🖖

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That's incredible! Star Trrk The Return must have a special place in your heart. 🙂My best friend was in a similar situation and found "Sophie's Choice". He is the last guy you would pick to read that book but he loved it. When he got out, he was telling us all about it, and telling us to read it! 😀

[@mugglescakesniffer3943]

Just think of all the notable Trek people that got thrown in the Brig.

[@davidrees1840]

Hmmm, I'm kinda sold on jail now.., thanks for the tip!

[@joemadda]

Beats reading Bram Stoker's Dracula like I had. Everyone read those Patterson books because they could read one in a couple of days.

[@Kyleplier]

The Star Trek films look amazing on 4k Blu-ray running HDR. Especially The Wrath of Khan, which is my personal favorite Star Trek film.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is such an amazing film!

[@alexwilsonpottery3733]

The Borg were not “machine-based”, they were machine-augmented-humanoids. I’m not even a full-on Trekkie yet know this.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thanks for thr correction.

[@francischambless5919]

lol I said the same thing because Spock mind melds with VGer in the Motion Picture and tells you what happend. The Borg had nothing to do with VGERs trip.

[@tonycicerone]

Video mentions this.

[@josephhaywood9238]

If V'ger did encounter The Borg, it would've been very early in their development, but would've had nothing to do with their development. If anything, an organic species created The Borg.

[@robertt9342]

@@josephhaywood9238. We see this happening now with people adding inorganic implants to themselves…

[@TheCrazyMoparDude68]

First thing, neither Voyager 1 or 2 have left our solar system. They have both traveled past the heliosphere, which is the boundary I which the magnetic field of our sun no longer “protects” against the radiation of the interstellar wind or medium. Basically interstellar wind/medium is just the space in between the magnetic fields of the many stars. The Oort Cloud defines the boundary of our solar system. This is the spherical boundary full of icy space debris that is held by the gravity of our sun. At least that is the most beloved theory these days. As for the connection between V’ger and the Borg, I think a good theory would be that V’ger did create the Borg, but after what happened in Star Trek the Motion Picture. After merging with Decker, V’ger went out to gain more knowledge through both space and time. The AI that found the Voyager 6 prove, were the ones responsible for the worm hole that allowed travel through both space and time. Therefore V’ger would be able to travel back in time. After seeing how Decker was able to be merged with V’ger, other species were also sought out and merged with V’ger. Maybe this happened voluntarily, but sometimes maybe it wasn’t. A lot could happen over hundreds of thousands of years. The process might not have been successful for some reason. Maybe one of the species was able to resist V’ger over time and was able to “revolt” and eventually became the Borg. Or maybe over time V’ger did develop the need for drones to maintain it. Some of those species that merged with V’ger may have been physically modified to perform certain tasks. Decker may have become one of the very first Borg. I think that the theory that V’ger did create the Borg, but after the events that took place in STTMP allows for many paths to how it happened. Especially if you include the fact that V’ger did have the ability to travel through both time and space.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I like your theory. Very well thought out. And thank you for the information on Interstellar space. 🙂

[@webbjohnson8049]

The Borg were first introduced in the TNG second season episode, "Q Who." According to the Star Trek timeline, Season Two takes place in the year 2365. After first encountering the Borg, Guinan tells Picard "My people encountered them a century ago," which would have been in the year 2265, possibly earlier. Since the events of ST:TMP took place in the year 2273, this clearly established the Borg were already raiding the galaxy before Kirk & Co. encountered V'GER. Later in the same episode, Guinan states that the Borg have been developing their technology for "thousands of centuries." If that doesn't settle the question of whether or not the Borg pre-date the time of any probes launched by NASA, I don't know what would!

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

You make a great point.

[@gesichtslegasteniker]

I highly recommend the books Star Trek: Destiny I dont want to spoil anything, but for me it was the ultimate explanation!

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Whoa! I will definitely check it out! 😀

[@mariobrito427]

Right i was also thinking about Star Trek Destiny :) If you don't know it, please do check it out. If there's a satisfying theory about the creation of the Borg, that's probably it. (i read somewhere that the original idea was to have the crashed sphere from First Contact somehow make it back to the Delta Quadrant, and that would have played a part in the Borg's origin... but i'm really glad they didn't go that direction in Enterprise's Regeneration epispode... it was a nice cameo, but unsuitable for an origin story imho).

[@Wraithspartan]

Destiny one of the Shatner books? I think I know which one you're referring to.

[@TheMediaOutsiders]

The Destiny books are a trilogy of books that involve both the Enterprise series era and also the time after Star Trek Nemesis. Excellent books that bring in Star Trek characters from all ears at the time (Enterprise, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and also the superb book Articles of the Federation)

[@JamesLawton-wv5ti]

It confirmed that way before that theory was even possible. voyager explains it in one episode that borg be operating for over 900 years at least.

[@russellharrell2747]

Star Trek TMP stated Voyager 6 was lost in 1999, not that it was launched in 1999. Presumably it was launched in the late 70s or possibly early 80s.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

You are right! You know your astronomy. The favorable alignment between Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune occurred in 1977 so any and all Voyager probes would have had to be launched in 1977 if they wanted to take advantage of the acceleration. Thank you for catching my error. 🙂

[@Mad-Bassist]

I never thought of them as being related. The way Spock described their homeworld, it sounded like a wondrous place with (near?) sentient machines that far outclass the Borg as they do us for technology, which I'd like to imagine arose naturally due to a different mix of elements and conditions. Maybe they're in the unexplored part of the galaxy where the gamma and delta quadrants meet. Head canon is fun! 🤘😸

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I agree with you 100%

[@thewb8329]

V’ger was so powerful but didn’t know its name because there were some burn marks it didn’t think of brushing it off like Kirk did to see its real name.🙄

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yeah. That was one of the lamest parts. It was cool at the moment, but the more you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.

[@DarthAverage]

Let's not forget that, in ST:TMP, that Spock tells Decker that, "Any show of _resistance_ would be _futile_ ...." Hmmmm ....

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Wow! That's Amazing! 😄

[@davidmarquardt478]

i think you are missing a big option here, my theory was always AFTER decker melded with v'ger, they became some type of machine human hybrid, and it was thought that this process worked, and they went off exploring, but what if it didn't work as planned, and the knowledge was so vast, being too much for their new form, certain information was lost, possibly even their origin. not that the borg ever said that they DIDNT come from humans, only that humans were designated species 5618, but v'ger didn't know about humanity on its journey post machine planet encounter, and thus could have cataloged thousands of species before humans were officially contacted. furthermore, after deck'ger left, we dont know what happened, they could have floated around other dimensions for a while before deciding to go back to the machine planet / perhaps even centuries earlier, because what is time to extra dimensional beings, and trying to recreate what happened to v'ger/decker, created a new species.... THE BORG. i also like the idea that one reason that they were so willing to work with the voyager crew, is that somewhere deep in their collective consciousness, they had a predisposition to help what was essentially their progenitor, a machine called voyager.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I really like your explanation. I wish I could have spoken to you before I made the video and added some of that information.

[@davidmarquardt478]

@@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast lol I love talking about st theories, which is ironic because I don't get the chance very often 😅 But I like the video, so keep up the good work! And reach out if you want to talk other theories!

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thanks, David!

[@brianwhedon8442]

This is a good point. I noticed that coincidence in ST-Voyager. How the Borg behaved now how I expected them. I went back and forth in my mind if this was just writers expanding the depth of the Borg species, or if it was supposed to lead to a later revelation that tied humans and Borg together

[@tbjoyrider]

I was thinking along the same lines. I find the most plausible explanation to the Borg, is exactly like you said. It doesn't have to be that the connection between V'ger and decker went wrong, but V'ger had accumulated too much knowledge for Decker to contain, so they went back to the machine planet to fix the problem. Once on the machine planet, the machines saw something they themselves missed within the connection between decker and V'ger, and the Borg are the failed attempt by the machines to evolve into what they saw as the ultimate being.... having the emotional awareness of a human in perfect connection with the power and knowledge capacity of a machine. The only conflict there is with this theory is that the timeline doesn't fit, but as you said, V'ger/Decker could very well have had to time/dimensional jump to get back to the machine planet. And if anyone would know exactly how to do that, it would be V'ger

[@theromulanwarhawk]

I've postulated that the Vidiians from Voyager and the Borg came from a common species. But when the Phage became a thing, the Vidiians chose "assimilating" other people's bodies to keep themselves alive and the Borg, technology. You've never seen a Vidiian drone. Thin, I know, but not impossible. I also found V'ger's treatment towards "carbon-based life forms," reminded me of Nomad.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

The V'Ger - Nomad connection is quite interesting. Thank you for your comment.

[@cujoedaman]

That is one of the things I hate about modern Hollywood, they go to "tie up" the loose ends by giving us a reason for things. V'Ger is one of those unsolved mysteries that doesn't need an explanation. A machine planet does not equal the Borg. Leave it at that.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yup. I agree. Don't take way the mystery!

[@Convoy00X]

If the good people at Paramount wanted to tie up any loose ends, they need to revisit the Next Generation episode Conspiracy.

[@berlinkozyreva]

What's wrong with 82 AUs? I mean Vger had full sized planets in it.

[@theCinemaHaus]

They missed a tremendous opportunity to link TOS with TNG/DS9/VOY by making Vger and the Vger-Decker union responsible for the Borg.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you for post! 😀

[@equinsuocha8905]

Also, consider the direction from which VGER was traveling. Its route to earth brought it through Klingon space, NOT from the direction of the delta quadrant. VGER clearly is extra galactic.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Great point! I totally agree with you!

[@Apophis-lw6bz]

Three takeaways: 1) the Borg creating V'ger out of the goodness of its heart is contrary to their nature. 2) V'ger creating the Borg still means they reached a machine world to become all powerful FIRST, making the Borg unnecessary. 3) The episode of Enterprise where the crew encountered a Borg scout ship means they came before V'ger, by ST canon.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you for your post!

[@thefurrybastard1964]

Excellent points.

[@russellharrell2747]

The Borg in ENT were survivors of the time traveling Borg in First Contact.

[@Apophis-lw6bz]

@@russellharrell2747 That's why I said as per ST canon. The theory that V'ger gave birth to the Borg was not established in the actual canon of the show.

[@glenmartin7978]

That Episode of Enterprise was set after the Events of First Contact so the Borg go back in time get defeated in the events of the first contact movie and the Borg that NX Enterprise encounter are Borg that have crashed on Earth and survive the events of the movie but frozen in ice to be found by Enterprise

[@chuckpoore]

I agree with your conclusion. Both theories are fun theories, but don't hold water. The theory I prefer (regarding episode crossovers) is the one stipulated in the fantastic novel Vendetta, where The Doomsday Machine was created by an alien race to fight the borg, and is the only weapon powerful enough to defeat them.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you. Wow! I never read that book. That sounds so intersting. I'll have to check it out! 😀

[@adrianvanleeuwen]

I always wondered if the Borg were connected to V'ger. Perhaps. However, the planet that V'ger met was an all machine AI planet. Not originally a cyborg planet, so not directly related to the Borg. I agree separate origins is more interesting.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you for your comment. 🙂

[@Renserin]

Thank you for doing a wonderful job of articulating the reasons why I never agreed with the Borg/V'ger connection. And I agree with you, it's much more fun if the machine planet is still out there somewhere, waiting to be discovered. Even if all Starfleet discovers is the ruins of a once mighty civilization.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you for your post. I think you and I are totally on the same page on this one.😀

[@JaguarCats]

11:57 It's for reasons like this that I hate the films "Prometheus" and "Alien: Covenant" by attempting to reveal the Xenomorphs origins you take away the mystery and wonder of these unique yet very deadly creatures. It's also why I much prefer the comics explanation for how the Space Jockeys link to the Xenomorphs. They like humans discovered this species, attempted to control them (they even based their technology,society, culture and architecture around them)....and in the process were tragically wiped out. In short the writers ultimately made them the Xenomorphs last victim. And expanded upon the original foreshadowing that the first dead Space Jockey in the first Alien film gave us. Humanity could be next if they're not careful. So I agree fully with the maker of this vid. Not everything in a story has to be connected. It gives more freedom writing wise (and is more fun in my opinion) when plot elements and characters have their own separate origin. Which makes it more interesting when they meet and possibly clash.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Ooo. That reminds me. Totally off topic, but what do you think of me doing a video series on the Alien franchise? I already did a video on Alien Romulus.

[@jamesmartin9401]

If anything V'ger was created by the same people who created Nomad/Taan-Ru.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I like that theory!

[@robertsonmcnaughton4850]

Nah it was the dinosaur guys lol

[@leeharvey612]

This would be a fab episode or film to explore.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I agree! 😀

[@glenmartin7978]

The VGER ship design looks like what they use for the Borg Command ship in Star Trek Online

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That is interesting.

[@BSAtlantia24]

My head cannon is that V’ger did create the Borg. The Borg then started moving through the galaxy as a very peaceful race with exploration and learning as their primary goals, but somewhere along the way they became corrupted, lost their purpose and set out on a path of assimilation and destruction.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I like your theory! 🙂

[@capesword111]

I wondered about this myself. And I agree that it's better to remain a mystery how V'GER and the Borg faction were created. It's more fun that way.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you! I totally agree with you. 🙂

[@CNormanHocker]

That third feature about being million of years in the past does explain the millions of galaxies found in its memory. I would like to know what kinds of children Veger and Decker had. That would be an interesting next Star Trek show.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Oooo... that would be interesting.

[@jamesomeara2329]

It might sound silly, but one thing I didn't care for was the unmasking of V'ger. V'ger is Star Treks version of a cosmic horror akin to the Lovecraft mythos. We get a hint, but not the full context of the mystery. I wish V'ger had stayed somewhat a mystery. Anyways this was interesting to find in my recommendations.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you. And I'm with you. I think a sense of mystery make stories better.

[@Raymond-j2u]

If you remember decker merged with vger probe I think it traveled through time and evolved into the borg

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That is an interesting theory I wish I explored in the video.

[@TF80s]

That's how l always imagined it in my head cannon...thought l was the only one.

[@jkleylein]

The whale ship from Journey Home created them all . . .

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Haha! That needs to be canon.

[@alexvellis4502]

Didn't TNG's enterprise also have a whale deck?

[@biffd4835]

Captain Decker created the Borg, as V'ger became "one with the creator" when Decker reconnected the com link. Afterwards, the crew even talked about "creating a new life form" and "perhaps the next step in human evolution".

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Intriguing idea. Thank you.

[@rimasmuliolis1136]

Decker merging with V'ger spawned the Q. The Q appeared forward and back in time from that moment. This also explains Q's obsession with Starfleet captains.

[@D.L.Lawrence]

Decker and Ilia merging at the end of ST-TMP created the first Borg being. When they ascended, they went WAY back in time. They created the Borg race, who had traces of both Decker (biological form) and Ilia (V'Ger's mechanical being and "learn all that is learnable" programing. That "learn all" thing is also known as assimilating knowledge... a Borg trait).

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Interesting theory!

[@jamesmontalvo5026]

If there is a connection, I imagine it as the species that were the first borg, helped Vger before becoming Borg, but it was the knowledge gained from helping Vger that led them to the advancements that later lead them to become the borg. Personally I like the idea of them being separate entities. Almost a parallel evolution type of thing.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Me too.

[@SteveBrant55]

Great video! I agree.... that making connections (instead of living in the mystery) is much less fun!

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you so much for the kind words. 🙂

[@jodyrichards4433]

The thought that V'ger created the Borg crossed my mind about a decade and a half ago to two decades ago.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

It's an interesting idea. What did you think of my video?

[@sheridan140]

The Destiny book trilogy explains the borg's beginning & end (at least, being close to 20yrs ago, so before Picard). GREAT series to read! Now, still an interesting idea that v'ger may have had anything to do with those from whom the borg came...

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I need to check out the Destiny books. 😀

[@alexvellis4502]

Okay, so, what if V'ger created the borg to help it on its quest to discover everything ever by assimilating information and sending it back to V'ger? V'ger just drops off a few nanites on a planet, as that planet evolves, the nanites assimilate more and more until they become technologically advanced enough to start travelling space. V'ger is chill with this because it means that it can gain knowledge from multiple different quadrants at the same time.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That is a very intriguing idea. I like it! 😀 Thank you for the post.

[@alexvellis4502]

@@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast You're welcome, homie. Thanks for the video. :)

[@MrRjhyt]

Good conclusion. Even in the vastness of our tiny planet, eyes evolved at least 40 times independently of each other!

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you!

[@dudepool7530]

Excellent video. A big problem I have with modern entertainment, is them eliminating the mysteries of the past.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I agree with you 100%. 😀

[@danieljette7409]

Astonishing that the entities that rescued v’ger didn’t figure out that there was dirt on the name. Also that v’ger stopped getting data from the Enterprise because Spock broke the keyboard. With the universe being so vast, how did V’ger know to travel in that right path? Couldn’t v’ger get the code from the station’s computer? Too many holes in that story!

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

You are so right!

[@pcnoad]

I agree completely. The last bit about making the universe smaller is why I also have an issue with Alien: Covenant. Not only does not everything have to be related to us, some things like the Xenomorph should be as far removed from us as possible. Having one of our androids be it's creator is not very alien. If you want to maintain its status as alien, don't explain it. The V'ger theories are interesting to discuss, but it should ultimately just be left to our imagination. Also, I'm not sure why the Borg would help V'ger in the first place.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you so much. Alien Covenant is a great example of fiddling around and ruining the mystery. Thank you for your post.

[@spccolts]

The space station was used in STAR TREK II THE WRATH OF KHAN NOT SEARCH FOR SPOCK.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thanks for the correction.

[@nomad_five7637]

In my own opinion, I've always thought that V'ger created the borg through the merger of the Ilia probe and Decker. When Kirk, Spock and McCoy were all back on board the Enterprise and V'ger was gone. I figured that whatever the results of the Ilia probe/Decker merger had been somehow teleported somewhere else. Whether that was just a different location in the universe or also another time too.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I think it's a solid theory.

[@qdllc]

Neither. V’ger was sent to another galaxy (based on the movie), and indeed visited several galaxies. If anything, V’ger would have “recorded” the Borg, to create them. The Borg was part organic and would recognize a primitive space probe for what it was.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I like your theory!

[@jeffreyschneider2824]

That book is great. I really wanted to see that as a major movie

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That would be so cool! 😀

[@steverempel8584]

V'ger is to the Borg as the Caretaker is to Humans. A supremely advanced form of life from another Galaxy.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Interesting theory!

[@paradoxstate5018]

I'm so glad you didnt come down on either side, the mystery is so much better, and makes you think that out there is a race that could dominate anything or anyone. I think its likely that it came across a Ai world, that Ai would be likely to see it as a primitive version of itself, about learning everything.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you. I totally agree with you! 🙂

[@paradoxstate5018]

@@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast Its obvious Star Trek doesnt take place in our reality, we had Pioneer and Voyager probes just 4 total.

[@Knives79]

When I saw the "Hiigher synthetics" on Picard I immediately wondered if they were responsible for V-GER

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

It's too bad that it didn't go anywhere.

[@daniels7907]

How are they even connected in any way? VGer expressed the assertion that "carbon units" are not "true life forms". This is in opposition to the Borg concept that biological life (i.e. carbon units) need to be assimilated. What Spock saw in his mind meld with VGer was a purely machine world that recognized Voyager 6 as kindred. This seems closer to the Ascended Machines from Picard. The Borg would have disregarded Voyager 6 as irrelevant, inferior technology with nothing to add to their "perfection".

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Check out my video. I go all jnto that.

[@russellharrell2747]

Why would V’ger be connected with the Borg? That’s like saying all biological life in the galaxy must be related….oh wait, they did say that in that one episode, didn’t they…

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Haha. 😃🙂🖖

[@tx_marauder]

It has been 20+ years since I have played it, but I believe Star Trek Armada echoed the Voyager traveling back in time and creating the Borg theory.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Are you thinking about Star Trek Legacy? I talk about it in the video.

[@tx_marauder]

@ never played Legacy. I remember the story and Armada is the only Star Trek game I’ve played.

[@johnpatz8395]

A possible alternative is that the original group that eventually became the Borg ran across V’ger and inspired to work towards becoming full machine themselves.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Interesting idea. I like uour theory. 😀

[@scittw22]

Gomtuu from TNG always seemed like a more sensible tie-in to V'GER to me. It even used the same special effect

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Interesting theory. I really like your thinking. 😀

[@MrSmithie25]

Ok, but canon concerning USS Voyager episode says, that the Borg existed way before earth started the Voyager probes in 20th century.

[@CuteLesbo69]

If Voyager fell into a black hole, which speculated in the movie,cit could have been thrown into the past.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Great point!

[@TF80s]

Maybe timey wimey stuff happened...

[@TheCrazyMoparDude68]

But if the Voyager probe had traveled back not only across the Galaxy, through the worm hole, but also hundreds of thousands of years into the past that statement would be true. It depends on what theory of time travel you believe in. Do you believe the theory that going back in time alters your same timeline, then it would be possible to have the Borg being created by V’ger in the very far past. If you believe that when you travel back in time you create an alternate universe/timeline (that is the MCU way) then it would be less likely that V’ger created the Borg. Although the timeline that was created could be the universe/timeline that Star Trek takes place in. The universe/timeline in which the Voyager 6 probe was lost may never have developed warp travel, or did it centuries later. There are so many variations of that universe/timeline. So either way, if the probe not only across the galaxy, but also back in time V’ger could have had something to do with the creation of the Borg. But there could be some universes/timelines in which the Borg do not exist because the Voyager 6 probe never went missing.

[@TexasAggie97]

Excellent analysis!

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you!

[@FirstNameLastName-okayyoutube]

Very cool! Fun fact, Voyager, from Star Trek Voyager, is 1 cruiser unit.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you! 🙂

[@robintropper660]

I agree 💯 with your final conclusions.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you! 😀

[@minionofgozer7414]

Given the all consuming nature of the Borg, their need to advance their technology and to absorb knowledge its perfectly logical to assume they didn't create V'ger. If the Borg encountered Voyager 6, they would simply see it as inferior and not worth their time. It would be scanned and then ignored completely.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yes. You are right. One of my points. 🙂

[@chrisbeckett9748]

I'm fine with V'Ger's origin remaining a mystery. I even prefer the energy cloud version over the space ship version.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I agree with you 100%.

[@Gilathorn]

I always like the theory of V'ger creating the Borg as a viral way to assist in satisfying V'ger's programming. V'ger is triggered to head to Federation space when the Borg assimilates revealing data. The Borg became autonomous from V'ger at some point... maybe when it ascended. Good video.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you so much. I like your idea. 🙂

[@DGH-q3b]

There was a book about this. Sadly my library is long gone.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Star Trek The Return? I talk about it in the video. 🙂

[@DGH-q3b]

@@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast Could well be it!

[@Raul_Gajadhar]

As a kid I saw this movie 3 times, and a fourth time just, this theory is the first thing which came to my mind. This is why I searched it here on KZbin to see if others shared my thoughts. Like V'ger I want answers! I am commenting before watching; 0:42 so on with the Video. NOW.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I hope you enjoyed the video. What did you think?

[@GangstaMojo]

After Commander Decker and Ilia merged with Voyager 6...it gave V'Ger what it was looking for, then Vger fell into a worm hole that took it back in time...Durning it journey back Decker & Ilia died and V'ger was lonely again and started to assimilate humanoid life to recreate what it had when Decker & Ilia was with him, but the new programing started to become twisted and started think and fearing that it would be alone again so it started assimilating more and more life so if 1,2, or 10 died there will always be someone there with Vger so it would never be alone again, as it got closer to 25th century Vger no longer functioned and went off line permanently and the assimilated humanoid continued Vger journey but the program file started to corrupt and assimilated humanoid and their mission slowly became the Borg and their mission.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That's a great theory. It's a lot better than some of stuff out there! Thank you for your post.

[@davidkaye8712]

It is not a mystery as you said ST:Legacy explained it, just because you prefer it to be a mystery, does not make it so. I for one love the ST:Legacy explanation of their origin and it does make sense. Voyager was modified and we dont know how exactly, we can assume it was with AI and some mechanical means of maintaining itself, I like to think when it encountered the planet of carbon based lifeforms it released nano probes into the atmosphere or water to infest them. So in my humble opinion and canon, Voyager created the Borg and there is a beautiful irony in that story.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you for your comment. By the way, I hear rumors that they are rereleasing Star Trek: Legacy. What do you think?

[@Biggles_James]

I always find it odd that VGer is so named due to the scorched name plate whereas in the computer memory on board it, there would be references to Voyager.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yes. 🤣 You definitely found a flaw.

[@fragamus]

I have this theory: many galaxies become borg infested independently of each other. One such galaxy developed the Doomsday Machine and after wiping out the borg in that galaxy it came here.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That is a very interesting idea. 😀

[@cycoholic]

I got it! The planet of machines was the home planet from Batteries Not Included (1987 movie).

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I love it! That's a theory I can totally get behind.

[@JoeFlansburgJoeMF74]

My theory. V'GER came across Cybertron. The Transformers built the ship and upgrades to the original probe.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I agree with you 100%. The Machine Planet was Cybertron. I am 99% certain. 🤣

[@Clancythecat]

I don't think V'ger is actually 2au long, I think it's the giant cloud around it that's 2au, it's actual hull is probably more like 100km

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That's right. only the energy cloud is 2 a.u.'s. V'ger's hull is 90 km long.🙂

[@PhelesDragon]

12:29 Voyager 6 met Cybertron

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Haha! I think that is actually canon.

[@PhelesDragon]

@@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast it is in my mind

[@georgecoons6872]

THEY CREATED EACH OTHER. NOW THEM TOGETHER WANT TO BE PERFECT.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That's a theory I might consider! 😀

[@georgecoons6872]

@@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast negetive positive energy all the way around says yes.

[@passatboi]

When I first saw this movie, I thought it was another take on the episode "The Changeling". The probe comes aboard the Enterprise trying to find its creator. Then it has to "sanitize" everything. It thinks the crew is an infestation. Same premise.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That is true.

[@skatedurr]

watched it all, good job

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Thank you so much! 😀

[@matthewrosenthal753]

The Borg were an evolution of what was born at the end of the film when Capt. Will Decker joined with V’ger and Ilia the woman he loved. Causing the formation of a new unnamed life form. The mentioned scene of Spock not being assimilated shows this.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I like the theory. 🙂

[@shawnawesome7770]

Wesley created the borg with his nanobot school project. He is pure evillllllllllll😊

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Now that's a theory I can get behind. 😀

[@PatrickParks-wk3vl]

I came up with my own v-ger created the Borg theory years ago. And it incorporates a film that is technically not connected with Star Trek. When Spock said "We've witnessed a birth" I thought what if it was twins? And what if they both were born into some sort of wormhole through time and space. One seeded itself in the delta quadrant to become the Borg we all know and love.. the other attempts to seed itself in 20th century earth, causing the events in the film Virus. I'm totally serious. If you've never watched it, take a look and just try to deni the endless parallels.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Interesting. I like your theory.

[@davidrees1840]

Entertainment? Fun? Ha! Viger's been away for 50 years, incommunicado in interstellar space, and suddenly responds? Obviously building drones to serve her for a triumphal return..

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

A good theory. Thank you for your post. 🙂

[@glenmartin7978]

Voyager 6 probe falls through black hole probably a worm hole simillar to the one near Bajor, finds a planet full of living machines (before the Borg become biological machine hybrid) they repare Voyager 6 and send it back to Earth, VGER merges and combines with Commander Decker at the end of the movie creating the Borg that we are familliar with so yes the Borg did create VGER and VGER then creates a later version of the Borg

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Ooh. That is an intriguing idea. 😲

[@mojosabien]

Finally…. People are making the connection

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yes!!! 😀

[@mojosabien]

@ oh and in answer to your question it’s both

[@briandrayton3835]

I wouldn't be surprised if V'ger encountered the Borg at sometime and influenced them. We know the collective has been fractured and nearly destroyed more than one by 7s own admission in the Vadwar episode of Voyager. Could be they had a run in with V'ger at some point. It would explain why Spock's mind meld with V'ger would make him appear already connected to the Borg

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Great theory. Thank you for your post.

[@SubparUser]

Its been awhile since I saw this, but I had no idea V'Ger was so large. Wouldn't something of that size have completely messed up the gravitational forces in the milky way? Like throw everything out of their current orbits? Maybe its explained and I just forgot/missed it.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That's a great point! 🙂

[@wildweasel3001]

Wesley created the Borg 😮

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Now that's a theory I can 100% get behind! 😂

[@Ingram091]

It was William Shatner who wrote that the Borg and v’ger had a connection in assimilation in one of the return novels. Spock was about to be assimilated and the borg ignored him because they already recognized him as borg. The reason? Because of the mind meld with v’ger altering his biopatterns …. Aka nanobots being present. Which were not a part of the extended Borg lore back when Shatner wrote the books. So that’s where the theory came from.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yes. That's what I talk about in the video. Please watch my video. 🙂

[@StephenJohnson-jb7xe]

As a thought experiment I found this pretty interesting but in reality I doubt that anyone involved with the making of either the movie or any of the series ever thought this deeply about what they created.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I think you're right!

[@Kelvryn]

mystery's are meant to be uncovered. It would suck if we never find out something. That would be like Newton seeing the apple fall and just saying "God works in mysterious ways." and just continuing about his day.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Interesting. In my humble opinion, I think mysteries are meant to be uncovered in the real world, but most of life remains a mystery. The more we uncover, the more mysteries are exposed. Life is a mystery. When writing a story, the best stories are able to covey that sense of mystery that real life is. 🙂 Sorry. I got too philosophical there. 🤣

[@russelljackson8153]

Remember the pure machine intelligences from Picard season one? It is more likely that when Voyager went through a black hole, it ended up among those entities, who then turned it into V'ger.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I wish they explored it more.

[@ChrisLawton66]

10:42 But V'Ger is also more powerful than Earth where it was initially created, so that doesn't hold. V'Ger continued to grow and become more perful after being repaired.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Ooo. I never thought about it thay way. That's a very good point.

[@while_coyote]

yes to both. they created each other.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Haha. Clever.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

Neither. The tech vger had was leaps and bounds above the borg. Its behaviour was also completely unborgian.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yes. That's the argument in my video! 🙂

[@okankyoto]

I've really prefered them being totally separate. It makes the universe feel really tiny if everything is related to everything else. The idea that there are just unknowable things out there in space beyond the world of understanding of our characters makes it feel like theres unlimited stories to tell and not everything revolves around one or two specific things.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Yup. That's the point of my video. I totally agree with you.

[@mrt1r]

I think the more likely explanation is v'ger was enhanced by the cybernetic aliens in Picard season 1. It would explain how they knew about our galaxy

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That is a very interesting hypothesis.

[@DeltaDemon1]

Yeah, I'm the opposite. I always hated magic because they didn't tell you how they did it. Then Penn and Teller came along and now magic is great because I know how they did it. Same here. If they would explain properly the origins, then it would be better. as it is now, I don't care much for Vger or the Borg. They're nice but nothing else. The more you divulge the more interesting they become.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Interesting counterpoint. Also, kudos on being a Penn and Teller fan. They are awesome!

[@TheJDough1]

I always thought that when VGER & merged with the guy and disappeared they became the first Borg.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

That's an idea I really didn't consider. I like the theory.

[@barryrobertson1620]

The (original) Borg (the machine planet)created VGER. VGER (traveled back in time) then created the Borg seen in the next generation. Ilia was the original Borg queen.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

🤣🤣🤣 haha! Let's make that canon.

[@d.b.2812]

Haven't we covered this many times.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

I hope I am providing some new information that some fans may not have heard.

[@steverempel8584]

IRL V'ger and the Borg would be unrelated. Not everything is connected to each other directly IRL like it is in Fiction.

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

Check out the video, my Bro!

[@kevinwestrom4775]

That's one of the odd things of that movie,.. the outside plaque is not the data & internal memory of Voyager,... .The outside name plate gets smudged & suddenly so it adopts the name V'ger from that?

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

🤣 You are so right. It may have been a cool reveal in the movie, but makes no logical sense. Thank you for your post!

[@lemhanback9595]

Star Trek: The Motion picture is actually a retelling of one of the original series episodes with a more romantic ending. That episode ended with Vger repeating "sterilize...sterilize" 😉😂😂🤣🤣😂😂

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@josearroyo8008]

Damn picard teased this but didn't payoff

[@TotallyAwesomeFilmsPodcast]

🙂👍