Did Vanessa Groom Ferb?

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[@SarcasticChorus]

Steal BLACK FRIDAY deal and get Atlas VPN for $1.70/mo + 6 months extra. Limited-time offer! atlasv.pn/SarcasticChorus

[@Running9750]

Hey you ever thought about doing a video about The Cuphead Show?

[@destroyerofmorons]

WHAT?! DID YOU JUST SAY TEEN TITANS GO IS *GOOD?!* BAHAHAHA S TFU AND G TFOH!!!!

[@nataliapanfichi9933]

Phinias and ferb is a great show.

[@milktea6676]

Think is a weird recommendation but can you do Kick Buttowski: Suburban Daredevil?

[@brandonscott5544]

Great sarcastic chorus couple ❤️🙏

[@tiredman99]

I love how the show shows two divorced parents trying to do the best for their daughter and that Phineas and Ferb being step brothers get along very well.

[@Teemoplanter]

I did not know they were stepbrothers wut

[@tiredman99]

@@Teemoplanter neither did I before watching this video

[@iiFerd]

@@Teemoplanter phineas says it on the first episode, you probably don't remember because of that

[@Teemoplanter]

@@iiFerd ah, thanks

[@joseguadalupemartineztorre9702]

@@Teemoplanter The bigger shock comes from the fact that in the future, Candace has a stepson. She has 2, Xavier and Amanda, but she also has a stepson, forgot his name. So either Can and Jer stay together after the show, have 2 kids and then break up, and Can remarries someone who already has a kid. Or Can and Jer break up after the series, Can had her 2 kids with someone else, breaks up with them and gets back with Jer who already had a kid with someone else. Or Can never stays nor has kids with Jer

[@xedgelord75x65]

the thing i loved most about this show is that the writers decided to make dr doofenshmirtz have a happily divorced couple that work together for their child’s happiness.

[@tobiaslawrence8928]

That's very rare in a show...ever, every show has a bad divorce or a bad breakup. It's good to see a change up for once and it also gives a bit of realism in the show.

[@HaydrogenBomb]

Exactly. Rather wholesome, actually

[@3MB3Rx134]

Tbh that's really relatable. My dad is like doof but bald

[@bigpulgalokes]

Well they divorced so the wife wouldn’t be involved in his crimes.

[@lavaninja1042]

Oh so that what he look like.

[@OctagonalSquare]

I think, as Dan Povenmire pointed out, the age GAP is not that weird. And I think a 20 year old dating a 26 year old is totally fine. It’s only the fact that they knew each other before that makes it suspect. If they met when he was 20, or even 18, no one would bat an eye. Also, I assume they just started dating. That helps make it less weird and kinda fits their interaction in the finale

[@PowerRangersFanAntiDinoFury]

No one starts kissing in the beginning of dating so Idk.

[@monthly.girls.digital8728]

I mean what gets me is that towards the end of the series, Candace and Vanessa were friends. Like Candace(and Stacy) went out of her way to help Vanessa sneak off with her boyfriend and Vanessa has invited her over to her home at least twice. Like they're not bff's but they're on good enough terms to hang out semi frequently.

[@OctagonalSquare]

@@PowerRangersFanAntiDinoFury yo what? You really think that no one kisses early in a relationship? Dude, there are people who bang it out on the first date. You really think they don’t kiss?

[@Erowens98]

Yeah, you can probably find plenty of couples with similar gaps in any college. Its not unusual for people to take a leap year or two before entering college so its not difficult to find a 25y who meets and 18y in some college party. As most masters degrees take 4-6 years.

[@PowerRangersFanAntiDinoFury]

@@OctagonalSquare I meant to say you're not supposed to, it's kind of important.

[@CalingsteRaynolds987]

I love how Vanessa is portrayed as being the bad girl type, yet her personality actually goes completely against the stereotype and she’s actually really sweet and chill. She does have a sarcastic sense of humor though that we see with her dad a lot. The normal thing to do with a character designed like her would be to have her make fun of Ferb for his crush or try to use him to get what she wants but she doesn’t. She genuinely thought he was cool from the beginning and probably even knew he had a crush on her. I think she’s actually my favorite character from this show and I’m totally not saying that because I have a giant ass crush on her still even to this day that still pops up when I watch this series. You didn’t read the last part.

[@dallaschiotti6900]

Oh we totally read the last part... you can't hide it

[@Camicamisinho]

thanks for the info, and yes, i read the last part.

[@necrodeus6811]

We all seen it... you can't hide

[@wify0241]

Dude….everyone did

[@F3yd_a]

Didn’t everybody have a huge crush on her and probably still does?

[@theedittingjoke]

I like to image Vanessa and Ferb just chilling one day together. Then realization hit her and she cringes at the leading events, and Ferb just making a witty remark. “Not my fault I had charm.”

[@sashashadowhive6128]

this feels so accurate

[@lancetheking7524]

aaaaaand I heard that in Verbs voice reading it

[@GoblinLord]

and it was the first time he spoke that day lmao

[@tumblingartist]

I could totally see that :0

[@spider-guy_yt220]

This... This is incredible. That makes the situation much easier in my head

[@Quykennedy]

I personally believe that the writers had the purest intent and just wanted to send our green haired guy off with his happy ending too! I never received any weird vibes and it’s set up fast enough where you don’t really process the info, so I think in the context of the situation, without a lot of retconning, they did the best they could, and I won’t hold that against them! 😊

[@seeleunit2000]

That was the point. I think everyone else who was watching this have their heads up their butts. I think some of these people really are just this immature and stupid. I think some of these people can't handle a relationships on any level. Wether it's trying to maintain a friendship or even a romance. I think these people have all the level of intelligence and nuance of a brain damaged 4th grader. Why is this even a topic of conversation ? I think people are just looking for things to nitpick because they have nothing to do. The infantilization and moral grandstanding is enough to make you puke

[@Davidledonkayy]

personally .-. if the age gap aint too big it dont matter so either way it wouldnt be even if they did date when she was adult and he was kid the age gap is too small lol

[@bluebay1031]

@@Davidledonkayy It’d literally be illegal if they dated when she was an adult and he was a kid because the Romeo and Juliet law doesn’t apply.

[@Kazpberry]

@@Davidledonkayyit would be really gross and illegal if a 8 year old dated a 16 year old. What is wrong with you?

[@Renabena12]

@@Davidledonkayy8 and 16 is CRAZY bro 💀

[@_xlampix1439]

To me, it always seemed pretty obvious that they probably just reconnected when they were both adults. You can feel creepy about their age gap, but to say that it's grooming is pretty annoying. It seemed clear in the story that Vanessa wasn't holding out for him, as she was dating other people. Ferbnessa basically has the same age gap as Anakin and Padme from Star Wars, and practically the same story as well. Boy meets older girl, develops a crush, they're separated from one another, and they reunite once they're both adults.

[@michaeltaylor788]

Today People just throw grooming around as a insult now and call people they don’t like pedo you shouldn’t throw those words around people could and have been hurt for that . 😢 Don’t get me started with trolls.

[@lonely_saturn]

@@michaeltaylor788 at least this situation is more reasonable to call grooming rather than lgbtq+ people just existing

[@michaeltaylor788]

@@lonely_saturn no they are just to people that grew up and fell in love no grooming in there at all plus it’s a cartoon. Only bigoted people call other people groomer’s just because they are LGBTQIA’s+

[@mysryuza]

Honestly grooming and pedo are so watered down that’s it’s actually harmful to actual kids

[@amesstarline5482]

It also is like a casting in-joke, which I find neat.

[@Rembreiker_lychec9257]

I like how they didn’t make it seem like Vanessa was wating for Ferb like she had bfs before she dated him. Also like how she clearly knew about the crush but never made fun of him and how they were genuinely friends before dating. It’s so cute!

[@anangel705]

Well said and I agree side note about the age gap. I don't think the age gap is weird. My dad & my late mother were 6 years apart as well.

[@lizziescott]

@@anangel705 The issue with the age gap isn't just "It's 6 years apart" The reason people find it weird is because Vanessa knew Ferb since he was 10. The problem with large age gaps in relationships isn't the gap itself, it's the fact that human brains function totally differently during different staged of life- and its REALLY easy to abuse a power imbalance there. Vanessa being out of college while Ferb is just now entering it could cause him to be overly dependant on her financially (if this was a real life case. That'd be a concern.) And her having known him since he was 10 makes it murky because he was 10. Her being 16 would have given her so much more foresight and life experience to him, plus the fact that younger people tend to trust and idolize older people alot. In a real life case, Vanessa could have manipulated him into the relationship, or taught him harmful things that he wouldn't realize were bad- Because he's 10. That's why it's iffy here. If They had MET when Ferb was entering college, it'd be alittle less weird because he'd then have more knowledge and life experience to combat hers and there wouldn't be as much of a risk of manipulation. (Still sorta iffy, but in the base case scenario, it would be fine.) A 30 yr old dating a 40 year old is totally different because they're both on similar stages of life. A 20 yr old dating a 26 year old would be mostly seen as okay because there's more equality between the two. There less power imbalance. I know I rambled here but yeah. The issue isn't just the 6 year age gap. It's what age they met at and the possibility of manipulation and harm.

[@Pingwn]

@@lizziescott But they didn't start dating when he was ten, they didn't even hangout as much, he just occasionally helped her when she needed helped but it wasn't anything big. Sure, it might be a little weird to start dating someone you knew when he was ten and you were sixteen but there isn't really that much power dynamic of a teen dating a child because it wasn't that way when they were younger.

[@lizziescott]

@@Pingwn It's still weird for people because we still don't know how they DID start dating. We don't don't know what age they started at. The best case would be when Ferb turned 18. But even thays weird because it's REALLY suspicious to jump on someone you knew since they were 10, right when they turn 18. The show didn't give us enough to actually know what happened, so it's really weird and uncomfortable to think about because of the possibilities put forward. That was the whole point of this video to. Explaining exactly that. Yeah we didn't see anything weird when Ferb was 10. But we also don't know how we went from that- Vanessa showing no interest in him what so ever (thankfully) and him just being a nice kid with a crush- to them actually dating while Ferb is heading out to college.

[@soniyashi]

@@lizziescott weird for people? Or, weird for you n' those poking their noses everywhere that isn't their business? Ask yourself... Often it's a case of ''my opinion is everybody's,'' and a self issue.

[@Atlas_Moth]

‘ferb would genuinely be an amazing boyfriend’ is not a realization i thought i’d ever come to in my short short life

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Even as someone who didn't watch the show I can say this is definitely not grooming. It's sketchy without context, but it is definitely not grooming. Grooming is a whole drawn out process of emotional abuse, of the adult manipulating the minor to basically gaslight them into thinking that the relationship is okay. Vanessa certainly has not been manipulating Ferb this whole time.

[@benrex7775]

What do you think about a 40 year old teacher keeping contact with a student and when he turns 18 (and not student anymore) she is in a relationship with him? Actually something happened recently in my social circles and apparently there are people supporting them. Also I don't think there is any emotional abuse going on. Just a boy who might mix up love and the love of a mother which a bit.

[@keegantripp1245]

@@benrex7775 that is a very extreme reach forward in a situation example. With Ferb and Venessa it’s still roughly within the 5 to 10 year gap. Now as mentioned it is kinda odd, but also not seeing as how many relationships have been that way or not and people simply go over the years. Not only that but Ferb and his brother are practically Einsteins; able to make the impossible possible. Ferb probably already had scholarships lining his mailbox. So money really was never going to be a problem with Ferb. I do like one person’s comment on how it’s similar to Anakin and Padme’s relationship since it’s practically the same thing.

[@benrex7775]

@@keegantripp1245 I wrote this comment because it happened in my life, not because it is Ferb.

[@LeaveBritneyalone580]

@@benrex7775 I'd chime in if that is ok. So base line: Vanessa and Ferb knew each other and had some basic interaction but in no way was the adult (or older person in this case Vanessa) intentionally kept Ferb around or has been talking to him with relationship as intention while he was a child. When did the relationship started we do not know but let's say he was turning 19 and they reconnected when he was 18 and for years they hadn't been in contact,while he is still being very young it's kinda digestible(I'm not calling it ok I'm calling it digestible because it's not grooming although it's still big age gap at that age, trust me you can tell 19yos are kids at 25 there is not "mature for your age"). So there is noticable chunk of information missing here. If they kept in touch throughout him growing up then yeah, I'd call it grooming also at what age they got together. But we don't have those informations and they are kinda crucial weather or not that is grooming or icky relationship. Now with your situation, from what I gathered she is 40 now and met him when he was at school. That would be 4years minimum which would make him 14 or younger and her between 30something and 35 few years up or down(please provide additional information if you have them) which is significantly larger age gap between them than Vanessa and Ferb (she could literally be his mother, if Vanessa and Ferb have nothing in common this situation is they live on separate planets). But what you mentioned which is most important piece of information here is that she KEPT IN TOUCH with him throughout the years which shows intention. That I'd definitely call grooming even if age gap wasn't that big (for example if it matched Vanessa's and Ferb's age gap it would still be grooming). She kept in touch with him and (this is me speculating here) probably through their communications manipulated him into a relationship with her. So yeah, that is definitely for police to be involved and everyone that is ok with it are gross and should be asked if they'd be ok if he is a girl and 40yo teacher is a man. If they are than they are also pedos. I hope all conversation that is happening around Aaron Taylor Johnson's grooming takes up and becomes more mainstream so we can protect young boys from grooming as well. They (boys and men by extension which is also mentioned in video about Dan not seeing nothing wrong with 19yo dating 27yo) have been taught for long time having older women interested in you is "good" and it has to stop

[@benrex7775]

​@@LeaveBritneyalone580 Of course you can chime in. I appreciate all views on the situation. I think if it happened the following way then Ferb was not groomed by Vanessa. She always saw him as a child. As soon as Ferb was an adult he started to approach her. Vanessa started to see that Ferb has good qualities, not just as a weird kid from the neighborhood. After he pursued her she accepted the feelings. Grooming means _"befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a minor under the age of consent,[...] with the objective of sexual abuse"._ If Vanessa never even thought of Ferb as a potential partner until he was not a minor anymore and all attempts were from Ferbs side then I can't see how this is grooming. It is a different question why they even thought of putting such a morally questionable situation into a children's show though. I can clarify a few things about the situation from my social circle. - It is not a school but a church. This woman is a worker at that church who is responsible for the youth program and the religion classes. - I don't know when precisely the first got to know each other, but let's go with your guess of 14. This is in the range of what I would have guessed as well. And the age difference is something above 20 years. - I don't know if she deliberately kept contact. I can't say for sure. But what I can say is that I still go to that church and the boy also goes to that church. And he has more contact with her because he is generally more active in that church than I am. For me the entire thing came as a surprise. They always got along, but they both interacted with a lot of people so I didn't see them having any special relationship. - When I first heard of this I called the boy. I wanted to learn more about their situation and I wanted to mention that she is probably not a suitable person for a lifelong partner. I succeeded at the first goal and failed at the second one. I was pretty clumsy in my word choice and on top of that he heard things I didn't say. Apparently he heard that I think nothing is likeable or worthy of love about her. Which they both found to be hurtful. I just wanted to ask what he finds special about her to date her. Also I said to him that her past indicates that she might not be the best at handling conflicts, which is a pretty important thing in relationships. - To my knowledge both of them had a somewhat troubled childhood. And to me it seems that he uses her as a caring mother he never had _(He has both parents living together but he is a big attention seeker and I've heard people say that his home is not in perfect harmony)._ His reply to what he likes about her is this: _"she is affectionate, funny, compassionate, very understanding and wants the best for me. she challenges me and tries to get the best out of me she is always there for me but she also let's me have my freedom and we also talk about our faith together."_ Perhaps I'm reading things into this but to me he sounds as if he is describing a perfect mom, not a girlfriend. He had a one or two shortish relationships previously with women of his age. My guess is that this will also only be for a year or two but I can't predict the future. - I have no clue about her motives. For one I didn't talk to her about it and I also am worse at guessing women's motivation of doing things. What I can say is that she was not at all successful in the pursuit of a relationship. She had a troubled childhood which she still goes to therapy for and there might be a bad influence in her live. You know that friend who talks you into bad decisions. Not sure about that last one though as it is just a comment I've heard someone make. My best guess of a reason why she might choose him as a boyfriend is like those mothers who don't have a husband and turn their children into a replacement husband. But that is nothing but me trying to get a passable understanding. It's probably wrong. - You mentioned going to the police. For one I don't know how Swiss police handles these cases compared to other countries. What would the police in your country do? Apparently there are people in their social circle _(including church leadership and some long term friends of theirs and a psychologist)_ who approve of this. And both of them seem to enjoy it and they don't seem like they are forced into the situation. So if I call the police on them what would they do? Force them apart? Would I be known as the person who not only had an insensitive talk with them but also bring in the Police even though none of them see any need or harm. Currently it doesn't look like it will have harmful long term damage. It's just weird and morally questionable and I don't think the relationship will last past the honeymoon period. As a church leader I would definitely either remove her from church or at least from the youth program. But as an attendee of that church I don't know what I should do.

[@Kauaimon]

I don't think Vanessa groomed Ferb, but the fact that Dan thinks it's normal for a 19 year old guy to date a 27 year old woman(like he did himself) shows that he didn't think about how most people would view this as weird. We know that Vanessa would most likely not be a groomer and is a good person, so in theory this couple would be safe and OK, but the fact is that in most cases this age gap is weird. Especially since Vanessa knew him since he was 9/10. It is a very good thing that the show did not write in any instances of Vanessa liking Ferb back when he was a child. That would just be gross. I did like how they wrote the crush. However, I did not like them getting together in the future. I feel like having no context to how they got together, especially since Vanessa was dating someone at the end of the series, just makes Ferb getting with her simply fanfiction-type wish fulfilment rather than anything that would actually happen, if that makes sense?

[@PK-Radio]

Bro I think you’re looking way to deep into the cartoon

[@sarahLuAnn3434]

Hey just wanted to clarify it's still a weird ship, but Ferb is 12 and Vanessa is 15. Canonically.

[@erikbihari3625]

​​@@sarahLuAnn3434 it's nowhere near like Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas type of deal? Man, what a relief to hear this!

[@ManiyaVinas]

@@sarahLuAnn3434 Yet he is drawn to be a kid while she looked like 21, kim possible syndrome

[@sashashadowhive6128]

I feel like people are overcomplicating this... When I was 20 I dated someone who was 27... only one year difference. Theres a similar difference between mt sister and her boyfriend of now I think 10 years? (I mean the relationship has lasted 10 years, She's in her 30's) Really an age gap of 7 or 8 years can work out fine. A 10 year old dating a 17 year old is of course not okay, but honestly a 10 year old shouldn't be seriously dating at all. But come on, when you are a young adult, you can decide for yourself what works. if you need someone roughly the same age, thats fine. if you feel like you harmonize better with someone a few years apart from you, that is equally fine.

[@boringfish]

The term "grooming" literally has been changed to mean "relationship with an age gap".

[@solanelukoperse5815]

People trying to raise awareness about grooming, accidently becoming the creepy grooming-banalizing ones. Bruh.

[@pandamonium2653]

Oh my gosh thank you. People just throw it around now and they’ve changed the whole meaning

[@landonkam6727]

I do agree that people misuse the term quite a bit, but it wasn't misused in this video. Sarcastic Chorus did a really thorough breakdown of the situation and that we don't know enough about the dynamics of their relationship to tell if it was grooming or not.

[@locoludwin3228]

​@landonkam6727 it was whatever is the opposite of grooming, he was the one interested while she wasn't the one wanting to be with him. Ferb just continued to pull out game until she liked him back.

[@tacticallemon7518]

because groomers on twitter want to dilute the term

[@SallyBMcgill]

I honestly shipped them because I loved Ferb's way of crushing on her without it being creepy or obsessive. I kinda wanted them to get together, but I also recognized it would be kinda weird somehow. However, I did love that they ended up together. My headcanon is that they drifted apart and didn't see each other for years as Vanessa started her OWCA internship and then went to college, and Ferb had a life building things and going to middle school, then high school, but they met up again by chance when Ferb was 18 going on 19 and Vanessa was 24. Then they caught up and started hanging out, with about seven months of solid friendship before Ferb asked her out, as his feelings never really left, and he saw this as a chance to be with his dream girl, where it wouldn't be creepy or wrong. Vanessa, who probably never even consider Ferb an option until he actually asked her out, decided to give him a chance, and the rest is history. I really think they would be a good couple, so while I understand some people's aversion to the ship, I am thrilled they're canon.

[@BeepBoop-z2v]

SAME!

[@sarahLuAnn3434]

Hey just wanted to clarify it's still a weird ship, but Ferb is 12 and Vanessa is 15 canonically.

[@erikbihari3625]

@@sarahLuAnn3434So it's basically like Sonic the hedgehog and Amy Rose rather than Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas?

[@maddiemelody9001]

I actually love this

[@majesticmo5048]

@@erikbihari3625 basically is, but Ferb isn't a creepy stalker like amy. He just has a crush on her and doesn't try to push his feelings too hard

[@jeremyusreevu237]

I think you captured why I was never creeped out by Ferb crushing on Vanessa. It was handled maturely and not made an absolute obsession.

[@CalebJones2008]

I'm looking at you, Panini.

[@AutisticJesusGaming]

I believe it’s more likely that after college she came back to town and after a few failing college relationships reconnects with ferb someone who helped her improve her life dramatically during some very tough times in her life. And based on his maturity in the early part of the show we can pretty much figure out that hes probably still incredibly mature for his age. Which whether you like it or not. Makes the mutual attraction more understandable

[@valentinkambushev4968]

I am still unsure if we should count this episode as canon, because it feels a lot like a fanfiction. A good fanfiction, but still a fanfiction.

[@smart.but.stupid]

Tbh it felt like there was a lot of pandering and fanservice in it because, as far as I know, PnF production had some issues at that time, but shippers, as always, were demanding. So yeah. It's a fanfiction

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@smart.but.stupid a lot of the show's problems at the time were (as far as I know) thanks to the toxic Gravity falls fans. During the first season of Gravity falls the fans had no problem with PnF, but when season two came the Gravity falls fandom went on war against PnF for not being "dark and story-driven".

[@smart.but.stupid]

@@valentinkambushev4968 I don't know about that, man. PnF had its problems, and it really jumped a shark at some point. Not sure if it's ok to just blame GF fandom for this But I wasn't a part of both of these fandoms so I can't really say anything about this situation.

[@Sqwivig]

@@valentinkambushev4968 What did the Gravity Falls fandom have to do with this? The fuck? Do you just have a grudge against them or something? GF fans had nothing to do with this at all.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@Sqwivig I don't have a grudge against the toxic Gravity falls fans but I definitely don't like them. I met a lot of amazing people in the Gravity falls fandom, but It's sad that toxic people like this exist.

[@BrandonJames2016]

This relationship always confused me even when I was a kid💀.

[@nateds7326]

I love how Dr. Doofenshmirtz has slowly over the years become everyone's favorite cartoon dad

[@TheDeadGrl]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about this. My dad and I had a conversation about this and we were just left with a lot of questions

[@Bluebonez]

I honestly forgot about this ship but was always so confused when it would have screen time so thank you for unlocking repressed memories

[@Cho0segoose]

It’s definitely weird and super unnecessary. This trope usually ends with the character outgrowing their childish crush cause that’s what usually happens. It definitely feels like grooming because they date right as Ferb is getting out of highschool. Just a very strange choice from the writers

[@wileystylus2332]

I was so happy to see the Perryshmirtz ship acknowledged in this video, I'd love to see a full dissection of it someday. The show itself provides so much unambiguous fuel to the fire, even if it's just for the sake of a joke. Awesome work as usual!

[@testedcatgaming7714]

Didn't know people ship them until now, but it does kinda make since. Even if there's no romantic chemistry there is some kind of chemistry, but I don't remember which chemistry they had perfectly since it's been a long time since I've seen this show.

[@Kaika433]

thats zoophilia bro

[@AdoboSoGuud]

@@testedcatgaming7714 fr. Their friendship is one of my favorite of Disney's shows

[@wileystylus2332]

@@testedcatgaming7714 They're definitely frenemies, but the show likes to poke fun at how much they resemble a married couple. Their first big falling out even plays out like a spouse cheating on their partner, it's so funny

[@testedcatgaming7714]

@@Kaika433 There is platonic shipping

[@DemiSemme]

A lot of this feels like the discourse haters of the Anakin/Padmé ship - a ship that has a much better defense against the “grooming” criticism, since the 9 year old boy and the 14 year old girl he had a crush on canonically didn’t see each other for 10 years after they originally met. But one thing the ships have in common is that they both feel like they’re more about the younger guy working to be seen as mature enough for the older girl, without the girl really having that much input or awareness before the ship is reciprocated. Ferb feels like the kind of guy who would not actively voice his crush to Vanessa before it would be appropriate to do so, and Vanessa is distant enough that it’s plausible she truly wouldn’t know without being told. I’m meh on the ship personally, but that’s the logic/rationalization I’m running with.

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

The other thing is Anakin and Padme have a tragic ending.

[@DemiSemme]

@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 Hey, we have no idea what Ferb might end up doing down the line, the kid's got layers.

[@creed8712]

Anakin was groomed it was just by the neck sniffer Joe Palpatine

[@maas1208]

​@@creed8712 LOL

[@jacobvanearden5440]

Here’s the thing, though with Padme and Anakin they had a shotgun wedding essentially got married like a week after meeting again. That’s my biggest issue actually. I honestly don’t think either of them should be in a relationship at least until the clone wars is over. If anything, this is what should’ve happened they wrote each other emails every day and talk to each other once a week on the holonet. Then six months after the end of the war, Anakin peacefully leaves the Jedi order Padme steps down as senator they go to live on Naboo for the rest of their days. With Obi-Wan and Asoka visiting a few times a year. Obi-Wan getting to be best Uncle after all.

[@thegamebusters5413]

The best thing I can say is Dan went through it so I guess that's why he ran with it in the end. He just didn't realize it looked weird thanks to them knowing each other as kids

[@Rosemont104]

Dressing this questionable set-up as "little boy wish fulfillment" is pretty dangerous, especially considering the target demographic.

[@YungandRekless545]

Yep. Got my hopes up as a kid before I realized it ain't a good thing as I got older.

[@chrisperez9854]

I guarantee a similar situation like Monty dating a Fireside Girl for example would’ve gotten a much worse reaction out of people.

[@erikbihari3625]

Isn't the age diffrence just two years like Sonic the hedgehog and Amy Rose?

[@thediethrower1803]

@@erikbihari3625 No, Vanessa is a teen in the main show, Ferb is like 10.

[@nothinginteresting7558]

@@erikbihari3625 Sonic had never shown interest in Amy tho, at least not in the games canon.

[@Roseasuko]

I assumed that Ferb was finally able to shoot his shot and Vanessa was like "ok sure"

[@ItzChim]

Makes more sense than anyone elses essay

[@kuroneko107]

This is what I image how it went.

[@meisstupid1831]

as dr doof once said "she's 16!" *zaps person out of existence*

[@genemelendez8157]

Honestly, I don’t have a problem with this ship. Knowing Ferb, he likely made the first move when he became 18-19. If Vanessa was grooming him, she would have made the first move. In reality, she could have easily gotten back with Monty, or found someone else like him

[@chickadeestevenson5440]

Oh he totally made the first move.

[@vko.]

this was always something i felt icky about. like yeah, ferb's crush on her was, cute ig? but Vanessa literally dates Monty who was clearly WAY older than Ferb. So why the hell would she be interested in Ferb? though i dont think it was grooming, more like ferb shot his shot when he got old enough and vanessa was probs like 'well, hes kinda cute now, why not' without thinking about the implications

[@photofreak56]

I always thought of it as them meeting again years later when their both adults and the two of them dating at that point. because ew otherwise

[@Vitallor]

well if we consider ferb is probably like 18-19 here and Vanessa is only 4 years older than him it’s not that weird

[@jazz-cat00]

@@Vitallor idk man, the idea of a 22 year old dating an 18 year old still just kinda icks me, y'know?

[@ryancarson6962]

Honestly it doesn't really seem that icky to me. Like a six year age gap is pretty inoffensive in my opinion, especially in this case where it was pretty obvious that Vanessa only saw Ferb as a friend at best in the show itself which makes this a case where its more friends deciding to date later on than anything really shady. The age gap is just so small that it honestly isn't even worth discussing this topic at all. Like Batgirl and Batman are a significantly different case where not only do the two have a much larger age gap, Batgirl is Batman's protégé and Bruce is pals with her father, thus the prospect of their relationship inherently has shady undertones. Here however the circumstances are so different here that its basically comparing apples to oranges.

[@sparklingwater925]

@@ryancarson6962 I agree I think people care a bit too much about this even though they are pretty close in age. And people seem to jump to grooming whenever there is a bit of an age gap in any relationship nowadays.

[@felixthelemon978]

Some people get really creepy about how extreme they try to avoid age gaps. Between two adults like this, there's an increased likelihood for abuse, sure, but it's just not abuse here, and there's plenty of real life relationships with similar age gaps that also just aren't abuse. The show gives no reason for us to think that Ferb feels unsafe or lesser-than in his relationship, and like many people can, he's likely enjoying dating someone who's older a lot! It's a happy ending, after all :)

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Okay, she knew him as a kid, he can't talk, and he's only 18. That's not normal.

[@ElPsySneak]

@@tell-me-a-story- Now mute people cannot be in relationships anymore??

[@TheKabuto90]

@@tell-me-a-story- He can and does talk, he's just quiet.

[@seeleunit2000]

Exactly. I think those types of people who keep on complaining like this are the ones with some very screwed up mindsets.

[@seeleunit2000]

​@@tell-me-a-story-... He can talk he just chooses not to be too chatty. He's over 18 in this episode and he's fictional. I think you're the one with the secret problem. I think you and people like you might have issues that you don't want other people knowing about

[@rezkel7404]

People really are just bound and determined to make "Grooming" a meaningless word.

[@Redwoe1]

Wdym

[@rezkel7404]

@@Redwoe1 Well besides certain individuals sticking the word onto pretty much everyone that isn't straight and is anywhere near a child. There is also another group that tends to use the word to refer to almost any relationship with an age gap. For me grooming is a very specific thing, in which an adult raises a child, as in this is an adult who the child was a dependent of in some way, was a significant part of their life, and then has a "romantic" relationship once the child is of age. Two people largely separate from one another who met while younger and getting together as adults is not grooming.

[@diamonshade7484]

Like incel

[@BettyAlexandriaPride]

@@rezkel7404 The definition is more expansive, however. It can happen to adults as well. I didn't know this at first (and initially said this doesn't make sense but after it was explained I understood why). The best example was a woman who slept with and later became the girlfriend of the late Hugh Hefner. Adults who are groomed are usually part of a ring where another adult (in this case an older woman) recruits everyone to make them feel safe and warm them up to their surroundings before "training them" for what they'll eventually have to do to cross over to the next level. Once there, women are coerced and put into a situation where they're essentially now told (sometimes literally, sometimes implied) that if they don't go all the way by sleeping with Hugh, they can't be in Playboy. If it were men, it would be the same thing except joining the team or fraternity or being protected from a gang. And the one in charge is usually much older than the men (or women) that they're grooming. I had to look it up myself because I didn't believe it, but adults can also be groomed. Regardless if we agree or not, have a nice day. Wish we were speaking on a lighter subject.

[@rezkel7404]

@@BettyAlexandriaPride No no, that's definitely grooming, honestly age isn't as important as the other parts, my main point is that there needs to be more in play then just an age gap and familiarity, there needs to be a deliberate motive. For Hugh and honestly most of Hollywood until shockingly recently there was always a kind of Grooming atmosphere, there was always a very deliberate pushed idea that if you wanted to get anywhere and be successful, especially women, you needed to play ball as it where. Vanessa isn't training or convincing Ferb of anything, they are just two people who kinda knew each other as kids and got together as adults.

[@imsomewhatcertain1024]

Why Venessa is the more attractive female in the series is because she wasn’t ran into the ground like Candice was. She was kinda a one note goth girl, but her occasional presence was a refreshing break from the typical Candice teenage drama.

[@deliriouspenis]

real hecking late but wouldnt call her style “goth” essentially. homegirl just wore a black jumpsuit/dark clothing lol

[@imsomewhatcertain1024]

@@deliriouspenis The series considers Venessa goth, and all of her fire DS were pure goth. For the sake of simplicity, I just consider Venessa goth.

[@deliriouspenis]

@@imsomewhatcertain1024 oh the show has her role as a goth fr? how was that executed, if you dont mind me asking? i dont really watch the show anymore and only judge her style to be not goth from the casual appearance of her that i can remember and base it on the standard definition of “goth” lmao also, dumb question but what is ds😭

[@reaperox_]

You say Doof is an evil scientist, I say he's a chaotic good maniac that needs a hug, and like you said, therapy.

[@RyuSpike]

I can only assume that Vanessa had to not seen Ferb for a long time for this to truly work out in a way that's less creepy. Like, if she went to college around 18 or 19, that would be around 7-8 years since they saw each other last. With that in mind, if an older Venessa meets a much older Ferb, I imagine that it would still require an impressive gesture for him to have her go, "Yeah, I guess I should date that green haired Brit I knew from when he was still a kid." Of coarse, I will still feel bad cause I was a VenMonty shipper and they made a good couple despite their little screen time.

[@liittlemiissd]

Grooming is a process of isolating a minor and making them get close to you through manipulation, in order to have s//x with them. What Vanessa did wasn't grooming just because they where AWARE of each others existence. Question all you want about how Vanessa could see Ferb in a romantic light despite knowing him when they where that far apart in brain development, but its just not the same as grooming. I thought I'd address that as I've experienced grooming myself, and wanted to both express how it isn't grooming. I wouldn't say she was grooming. She wasn't trying to manipulate this kid for sexual favours or anything. She was giving him scenarios that he inserted himself into. is it strange? Yes. Was she grooming? No.

[@Machodave2020]

I rock with this take. I'm gonna defend this ship!!

[@ev14lyn]

It may not have been grooming on this ship themselves but it is certainly grooming behavior on the writers mind because it’s so strange and creepy that they met at 10 and 16 yrs old and when Ferb became of legal age the writers decided to make them a couple, no just no Will never like this ship or the show ever again after what the writers had done

[@DDDD5DDDD]

biggest cope

[@Gadeberg90]

@@ev14lyn You are really weird.

[@T-mack56]

NGL, as someone who hasn't watched P&F since l was in 8th-9th grade, I was honestly kinda confused when I first learned this ship became a thing in the actual show. One can make the argument that their relationship started only recently at the end of the series ( Like may about 3-6 months at most.) Assuming Ferb hasn't been in contact with Vanessa until he was in college. Which is honestly how I prefer to look at it. But still..... it's a bit questionable to put it politely.

[@JasontheCartoonFan]

According to the in-character commentary for “Attack of the 50-Foot Sister” on the Across the 2nd Dimension DVD, Doof does not approve of Ferb’s crush on Vanessa. Makes sense, considering how he rightfully killed a much older dude with a laser gun for hitting on his daughter. “SHE’S 16!”.

[@human-tk2fo]

Technically the ray gun just teleported him to another dimension, an alien toddler probably ate him

[@GumSkyloard]

@@human-tk2fo The toddler literally squashed him.

[@Void_Out]

I mean, was he suppose to immediately know Vanessa was 16? What if he was also a teen? I know it was for a joke, but it honestly always bugged me how people treat that scene

[@dork3132]

I don’t thing I’d consider it grooming. It’s just an age gap. There’s no exploitation, manipulation or abuse. Or isolation, secrecy, or making the person feel great just to tear them down later…

[@StoryBird2]

I think I'm less weirded out by adult age differences since both my parents ended up dating/marrying people with a 7-10 year age gap

[@errorx_x1063]

My parents are 8 years apart.

[@mgigachad3170]

My parents are 7

[@Aural4444]

In my opinion, the show shows you how to write age gap couples that you know from a very young age without turning it into grooming or something creepy (In my opinion, they started as friends and dated later).

[@smart.but.stupid]

Eh...does it? Because it's not like there is a big amount of actual writing behind this couple. It's basically just...he has a crush on her, she doesn't know, it's a running gag of sorts and then they hook up off-screen. That's just it. The viewer doesn't know if it's creepy or not, because such a huge chunk of narrative is just non-existent here.

[@Aural4444]

@@smart.but.stupid A good point, but I was referring to the fact that this doesn't feel like grooming due to the fact that the one who started having a crush is Ferb, she doesn't show any romantic or sexual interest in him as a child, they are both underage when they meet, and they start out as friends. At least that's how I felt it! How their relationship transformed when Vanessa began her adult life is left a mystery (who knows, maybe Ferb had other romantic relationships during his teens and Vanessa supported him the same way he did in the past or not), but the The fact that Phineas greets Vanessa gives me hope, since groomers tend to isolate their victims from their family and friends (For obvious reasons). Honestly, this is my hope for a well written age gap teen relationship, because honestly everything has become very politically correct nowadays. Of course it's fine if you don't think the same as me

[@smart.but.stupid]

@@Aural4444 well, I personally agree that that's the case and I highly doubt she groomed him. But anyway, this age gap isn't my thing and I don't really see the appeal.

[@feyefall4855]

@@smart.but.stupid I think the age gap itself isn't an appeal, but the fact is that there are healthy age gap relations in the world that started in normal healthy ways. I think OP's just pointing out that it's nice to see one of those represented instead of the icky ones?

[@JCArules13]

@@feyefall4855 but it isn’t. The only way to know if it’s healthy or not is to know how they got together as adults. Just because someone was a good person at 16, doesn’t mean that’s a constant fact about them. We’d only know if it was a healthy age gap relationship, if we say how the romantic part of their relationship starts. We only see how their friendship starts!

[@armedpotato3617]

To me, at least, the way that the relationship between Ferb and Vanessa isn't treated as romantic just shows that it wasn't even a prospect until ferb was older and more (physically mostly, considering the feats he pulled off and how stable and non-toxic he was during the show) mature. Perhaps a 6-year age gap is odd, but in the grand scheme of things in the end they are both just consenting adults in a relationship, both around 20-something.

[@graceross4888]

I hate this trend of calling grooming anything with an age gap. In this case it looks like wishful thinking of one of the writers, this is a common fantasy for teen boys, keep it pg and the older woman ignoring/befriending and it's good. For something to be grooming there needs to be, well, grooming: Palpatine groomed Anakin for the dark side YES, the Jedi groomed Anakin for the light side NOPE! There needs to be an intention!

[@sparklingwater925]

Exactly this. I'm especially surprised that more comments haven't mentioned that it's obvious wish fulfilment.

[@rogerjack18]

Noice 👌🏾 couldn't have said it better

[@camharkness]

It actually hurts those of us who's been groomed, because everything is just called grooming, so when it happens to us it's not taken seriously

[@graceross4888]

@@camharkness I'm so sorry kind stranger, I find it insulting when people throw around serious accusations as it were a tv trope, grooming is a serious issue, it hurts real people! The HS senior and junior dating is not grooming nor hurting anyone (real)

[@camharkness]

@@graceross4888 exactly!

[@alismustgettoknow6632]

My whole life I assumed that Fines and Ferb were 12-14 during the show.... Like in my middle school brain it just made sence... BUT THEY'RE 9-10? TF 💀

[@QuantumKatana]

The writers confirmed that they're 7 or 8.

[@robkuro8564]

Yeah, I just looked, Phienes and Ferb were around 8-10 throughout the series. And Vanessa was 16, so...yeah, don't even ship these two. Even the last episode at best was Ship wish fulfillment.

[@bbew2914]

@@robkuro8564 what

[@jackthefrog80085]

As someone who like to date older women I say this is not grooming. Grooming is when someone manipulates the other person into being someone else. People usually misconstrude age gaps as being always Predatory but honestly, Vanessa and Ferb care for each other and in no part of the show she's shown to be manipulative. They're just vibing

[@ashesGeek]

I feel like nobody really understands any of these terms these days. Sure, it obviously isn't right to show romance between a kid and a teen but there's always adulthood and by that time age gaps are heavily put aside. Honestly, it's actually quite ironic that some kid/teen or kid/young adult dynamics have healthier chemistry than some teen romance examples(Twilight, SVTFOE, Miraculous Ladybug)

[@gabrielleduplessis7388]

While the age difference is problematic, I don’t think she groomed him. It was more of Ferb crushing on her and her just liking him as a friend. She did not isolate him or ask for favors, at least from what I remember. She dated other people at first. Then the friendship grew when he was at college, but still seemed pretty tame. I don’t know. You tell me.

[@StudioUAC]

also, ferb definitely wanted that older chick.

[@frozen7550]

The age difference wasn't really problematic. This being a topic was so confusing, since I remember in the show they were all the same "age bracket". In my country, they all would've been Highschoolers. Ages 12,13,14,15,16yrs more or less. Vanessa's design in my opinion was problimatic. She's the same age as Candice (15) until the birthday episode & met Ferb (12) before that.

[@tumblingartist]

It sort of feels like a mix of childhood friends trope mixed with reconnecting with a long lost friend (I kinda imagine they lost touch for a while and got reacquainted a couple years later)

[@gabrielleduplessis7388]

@@tumblingartist i like that.

[@jackb.207]

3 years of difference, my god how did they manage!

[@NetNaviFan2]

It's not the idea of vanessa being a groomer or not, it's the fact that they really wanted Ferb to end up with vanessa when it was better just to keep their relationship platonic because it was cute and funny. Just because Ferb had a crush on her doesn't mean she was gonna feel the same for him when he was older.

[@emartin29]

Yes. This is how I feel about it.

[@tumblingartist]

Well said!

[@justalula7151]

yeah plus Vanessa already had a much more interesting dynamic with Monty....I wished Ferb ended up with some random girl he met in his teen years since it plays into his character being the quiet and sometimes mysterious one plus it would've also been interesting to see him being the only one in his friend group to not end with someone he first met when he was younger

[@schwellenangst1605]

@@justalula7151 i shipped Vanessa with Monty sm as a child

[@LeeDraw69]

@@schwellenangst1605 same here

[@DougieYT]

Venessa & Ferb really was a solid pairing, this show will forever be one of my favorites.

[@rockstarbenjamin02]

I refuse to have this conversation 😭

[@mitcheldxdyt]

🥲 we need to have it tho

[@Void_Out]

@@mitcheldxdyt No, we would need to discuss what grooming actually is with actual victims instead of caring about a fictional relationship that is presented in a healthy manner. Grow up

[@viko1326]

Vanessa awakened things in all of us

[@HaydrogenBomb]

Fun fact: she has the same VA as Marceline from Adventure Time.

[@asackboyplush6508]

Not me

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Not just her.

[@hanokokun9246]

Broo stop is still NNN

[@smart.but.stupid]

Not me. I found her kinda boring.

[@chgaming5059]

I like how Vanessa still looks the same when Ferb is all grown up XD

[@eatatjoe]

She's great in small doses and I'm honestly stunned that this show *DIDN'T* make Vanessa into Marco 2.0. because that would have ultimately made this much creepier.

[@jamainegardner4193]

This show came out long before SVTFOE, Adventure Time and Gravity Falls.

[@blacnite2406]

This was one of the things that I always wanted to know after seeing the finale.

[@amethyst_dawn]

Simple rule for fiction: if the implications don't match the rest of the story, they're unintentional or poorly supported. Your analysis for their dynamic in the primary series was spot-on, so I think this whole discussion is really just people not paying attention and raising a fuss over nothing. There's not a lot of solid evidence to say something either way, but there's more than enough character moments for both parties involved to show that the possibility of grooming is miniscule if not subatomic.

[@sarahconway2382]

Ferb is arguably the most intelligent character in the show overall. Also, the age gap isn't that bad, it's 6 years at most. My parents got together despite a 12 year age gap and they're perfectly happy together.

[@aceeonyt57]

12?! my mind is buffering rn

[@therac197]

@@aceeonyt57 Mine too met when my mom was mid 20s and my dad mid 30s

[@andrasnagy380]

@@aceeonyt57 It's not that much.

[@PeanutButterRedneck]

My parents got married despite their 16-year age gap. They got romantically involved while helping plan a high school reunion (my dad taught my mother, but they didn't start dating until my mom was in her mid-twenties). My aunt has been married to someone 8 years her junior for at least 30 years now, so it's not that uncommon.

[@nobodybroda3826]

Same, my parents were a 10 year age gap, they worked at the same business lol.

[@JadenLightvale]

Honestly tired of age caps in relationships instanly being called “grooming”. The world is so thrown around nowadays its harmful to people who are actual groomed and has no meaning anymore. Also not to mention in the shower, Ferb is 12, Vanessa was 15. 3 year age cap.

[@essence6603]

ehhh he's 9, but I get your point still

[@GumSkyloard]

Are.. you joking? Ferb is 9, and Vanessa? 16. That's not 3, that's *7* years of gap.

[@arthurlofrano7021]

@@GumSkyloard i mean, my parents have like a 8 year age gap

[@kolbyking2315]

@@arthurlofrano7021 28 and 20, ok. 12 and 4, not ok.

[@mason8467]

@@kolbyking2315 Clearly they weren't dating during the show, and it's safe to say that they probably got together after Ferb graduated high school, so he'd be at least 18. Also, Vanessa never showed any romantic interest in Ferb, so no, it's not grooming. It's just an age gap

[@merrillbeck1575]

I’m gonna say no, ferb is the kind of character that would have made the first move on her

[@moxxiedemongamer3019]

0:19 in some strange alternate universe I'd thought Ferb was at the right age for Vanessa in the act your age episode

[@crayonlord3000]

“I dated a 27 year old as a 19 year old its not that weird” your experiences are NOT UNIVERSALLLLLL

[@Mortablunt]

When I was 22 I started what became a six year thing with a 35 year old. That was a bit strange, because I was at that transition out of college thing into adulthood, and she was already in established adult. When I was 19 though I did date a 24-year-old and that was pretty normal.

[@amelonnamedkate1400]

Age gaps are pretty touchy, but it really depends on the context behind it. Like, my parents are 7 years apart. But they met in their 20s, which isn’t bad because they’re adults. The fact that Ferb and Vanessa knew each other when they were 9 and 16 and seemingly dated the second he was of age is what makes it weird

[@jezebelmei195]

Or, hear me out, they fell out of contact at some point then reconnected and had a spark. Happens all the time at pretty much any adult age.

[@rainbowdino9310]

Yet there was nothing of the sort saying that that's what happened. It's literally just you speculating something there no proof for.

[@jezebelmei195]

@@rainbowdino9310 This your first day on the internet buddy? It's called "Theorizing" and "coming up with headcanons" we do it to shows we enjoy to explain the things they don't.

[@MsSumoon]

I don't think Vanessa groomed Ferb, but it's truly kind of out of the blue in the finale them being together. Something simple it would be like this-Phineas saying-oh you are going out with Vanessa? It's your first date? Ferb just agrees, it's their first date, and she comes and pick him up. Making them not official yet, but just removing the grooming aspect, like-she decided to give him a chance. It would have made it less uncomfortable.

[@musicallydisneyamvs6731]

I can just imagine them knowing each other vaguely over the years until Ferb is 18 & takes his shot. Only to turn into a year of dating by the time of “Act Your Age”. It feels like its Ferb who’ll go for it & Vanessa takes it as a one time date & plans to let him down easy but it turns into more dates & an actual relationship.

[@FrostiOrca]

Thing that stops it from grooming (at least imo) is Vanessa does not show any interest at least romantically with Ferb nor does she try to nuture that. I think what gets people is how age differences feel ALOT bigger at young ages. Like a 15 year old dating a 20 year old is gross. But that is the same age difference between say a 30 and 35 year old. Not saying adults dating kids is okay by any means I'm just saying both are 5 year differences

[@alize0623]

Large age gaps stop being weird once both parties are over 25

[@Robohead-z6z]

@@alize0623 This. However from what I read women stop brain development two years earlier, so I assume 23. 23 is pretty close to 25 anyway. I say it stops being weird once they’re 25 or close to it.

[@JesseGolo]

Cartoons don't create weird implications for their characters' relationships challenge. Level Hard.

[@zynosgd9982]

This is much deeper than anyone at Disney probably ever thought it to be. Like all good ship should be.

[@Olivia3641]

Ferb is 19, and Venessa is 27. The only reason they’re together is because Dan is a very nice man and wanted a happy ending for Phineas and Ferb. Although, most importantly, he wanted to make the fans happy that they wanted Phineas with Isabella and Ferb with Venessa. The most important thing to Dan was just trying to make the fans happy. I wanted Isabella with Phineas and Ferb with Venessa. As a fan of the show, the ending made me happy.

[@22espec]

Wait, where did those numbers come from? As far as i know Ferb was between 11 or 12 and Vanessa was 16 in the show. Edit ok i see the end of the video but they forget one detail, Ferb is aoready in college in the Flashforward which add to the fan speculation that Ferb is older than Phineas by one year

[@Hhhhhiiikkkk]

12 and 15 3 years gap

[@Comet_cupid]

Exactly, I’m a hardcore fan and love Ferb ans Vanessa together

[@ok.4720]

​@@Hhhhhiiikkkk Where are yall getting these ages from? Ferb is 10

[@milktea6676]

As a person who’s been watching phineas and ferb their entire life I feel like it was the other way Ferb got Vanessa around season 2 it felt like they were doing something with them (And I know for a fact your probably drawing alot from the France episode) But around season 3 they took a break from developing their relationship And it was almost as if it didn’t exist (especially in the Halloween episode) Which personally I think that was a smart move And Vanessa starts dating Monty and we don’t hear about them until season 4 in the future episode

[@phonepup06]

But why would Venessa date him?? It makes sense for Ferb and not Venessa, which is the whole issue.

[@Oznerock]

@@phonepup06 Have you *seen Ferb* he's the silent cool type, an ultra-genius, and whenever he speaks it's almost shakesperian.

[@Damianskull]

​@@Oznerock ikr, who wouldnt want that type of guy?

[@VellanShadow]

While I get that the age gap might feel a bit weird, they started of bonding when both of them were kids, so I don't see how any one could have groomed the other, seeing as both of them were kids at the time they started interacting

[@LaCrownedGamer]

I think the easiest way to have fixed this was age up the kids. When I first watched the show I assumed they were 12 and 13 with Ferb being older. Vanessa is 16 so a 3 year age difference is far far better than what was confirmed. You can still have the finally be them heading to college and Vanessa going into her 3rd ir 4th year, still makes sense but puts them in the same mental age range.

[@Falcon-doing-doodles]

Tbh, this ship could work if Vanessa was 2-3 years younger, but I honestly think it'd be better if they grew up and became good friends, especially considering how they knew each other when they were younger.

[@MrMagistralMalik]

Imagine a Senior having an obsession over MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! Vanessa Doofenshmirtz literally just became Vanessa Groomin’shmirtz.

[@raautumn6368]

Yes it's a pretty big age gap, but legally speaking they are both adults so it's kind of a gray situation. But also I feel like Ferb saw Vanessa one day at 18/19, started talking, shot his shot, and Vanessa just went with it because he was a cool kid and now he's a pretty cool adult.

[@nevaehonrefni]

If Ferb was like 24 and she was 29 it'd be different. They'd still be in different stages, but he'd have a lot more knowledge about being an adult and it wouldn't be strange. My parents are 6 years apart but didn't grow up together at all. They met when my mom was 38 and he was 32. The older they get the less weird it gets, but the fact he's 19 is really strange.

[@sarahLuAnn3434]

Hey just wanted to clarify it's still a weird ship, but Ferb is 12 and Vanessa is 15 canonically.

[@Amanecer458]

@@sarahLuAnn3434 3 years, that Is nothing in that case

[@nevaehonrefni]

@@sarahLuAnn3434 but video maker just said he was 10???

[@testedcatgaming7714]

@@nevaehonrefni The person who made it said that we don't know any cannon ages, so they just did math from another episode. Future episode thing is 20 years in the future, their 30 there, take 30 and take out 20 you get 10. It could be the creators didn't think of that or the commenter is making things up. They really don't provide a source you know.

[@abitcattywampus]

@@sarahLuAnn3434 He literally showed a post from the show creator that says that Ferb is 19 and Vanessa is 25 in that episode.

[@bisapien123]

13 minutes in, I’m realizing they’re literally anakin and padmé. He was 9 when they met, she was mid-teens, she may not have known he had a crush if she was oblivious, ten years later, they fuccing

[@crystalhopedragon658]

Shh, don’t mention it. The Doofenshmirtz and Perry ship is supposed to be an internet secret. And hmmm… neat ships from back in the day? Well it’s not a primary character ship, but Billy‘s aunt and Nergal from Billy and Mandy had one of the largest effects on a show I’ve ever seen a ship have. It’s one of the few times I can name a show starting out with two lonely characters, who then find love, get together, have a kid, and have that kid become part of the primary cast. Their relationship was… Strange, but it had one of the more positive impacts on the show long term. And it was a weird ass ship.

[@Amrepdude499]

When it comes to that kiss scene, I don’t think Vanessa had any mal intent there. What i theorize may have happened is that she put the dots together that he likes her and decided to be chill with it. Simply put, he made her day by helping her so she probably knew that giving him a little peck on the cheek would make his day too. Oh and about that “good time” remark, that’s an obvious throwaway joke to make the adults chuckle, seeing the way she’s sitting and the way he’s literally holding the giant screwdriver (Sorry if I put that image in your head I didn’t know how to phrase it anyway else). I remember being young and watching that episode with my mom and dad, they both laughed at that part and I obviously didn’t understand it

[@zcubeDbz]

I feel like the cheek kiss is one of those things shows do where and older character has to/ wants to thank a younger character. It happens in a good few shows, case in point Pricess Bubblegum did so to Finn with no romantic attachment, at that time, and had no plans of it going farther than that... We also aren't gonna talk about the more questionable things in Adventure Time at this time

[@TBK7913]

Bubble gum did have a thing for Finn though she just never ended up going through it it’s seen when she turns 13 and when she was jealous of flame princess

[@zcubeDbz]

@mickhailreeves7517 She was only into him when they were mentally and physically the same age. At no other point was she "into" Finn, just cared about him. At no point was she jealous of Flame Princess unless you count the tiny variants

[@TBK7913]

@@zcubeDbzit was hinted at the end of the episode she was a bit jealous that Finn moved on and Jake heard her

[@artistanthony1007]

Btw I personally believe Heckapoo groomed Marco cause for one, she was already older than him, that seriously needs to be talked about.

[@lexyruse603]

Heckapoo and Marco as far as we know never had any actual romance besides when he finally caught up to her and blew out her candle and by then he was an adult. Since we never see any other romance between them when he was a minor or even after when he's a minor again I wouldn't call it grooming.

[@AnimatedIdiotGuide]

I don't think this ship, as it was done in the show, is necessarily problematic. As many commenters have already pointed out, it wasn't like Vanessa was hitting on Ferb when he was still a kid and it wasn't like Ferb was doing anything overtly to showcase his crush on her. They were on friendly terms and I like to imagine it stayed that way until Ferb was 18 and it was decidedly less creepy for him to ask her out or something. I will say this: if this had been in the hands of even a less talented writing crew, they would've completely fucked this up. I also wanna say that your breakdown of their relationship made me reevaluate the Phineas/Isabella relationship. Like you said, Ferb never let Vanessa become his obsession, while Isabella, one could argue, totally did. I've been struggling for so long to understand why AYA as an episode fell totally flat for me and I think you ended up articulating it.

[@jackofalldrones9653]

If I had a nickel for every time a Disney show had an extremely questionable, poorly developed relationship that you made a video about, I'd have two nickels, which isn't much, but it's weird that it happened twice.

[@datdude2339]

Stop…. Your ruining my childhood 😢

[@grapesoda4281]

He’s pulling a goddamn Game Theory

[@lemonofcake]

I can’t tell if this comment is serious or not

[@aidanquiett668]

@@grapesoda4281 Game theory doesnt get this dumb, lol

[@zachanikwano]

@@aidanquiett668 Game theory gets worse, actually. Ex, ignoring in game lore rules to make up their own stuff.

[@aidanquiett668]

@@zachanikwano They've done that a couple times, but when it happened it was stuff they missed rather then just ignoring it. While sacrastic keeps just bringing up loved shows and then saying that enjoying the character ships in it is morally wrong, without ever really admitting that other moral frameworks can be fine. Like say, not treating fiction as reality

[@Astrolionking]

This ship definitely made me feel icky, especially knowing Vanessa KNEW HIM WHEN HE WAS WAY BELOW HIS YEENS

[@Macaulyn_97]

Honestly, the only people who call this "grooming" are internet idiots who are so desperate to "look good" that they'll invent a problem so they can point at it and say it's bad. A 6yo age gap is not "grooming", nothing in the show indicated that Vanessa treated Ferb as anything more than a kid when he was a kid. People are pulling a headcanon out of their ass to act as if she made a move on him as soon as he was 18 or even before, which the show never alluded to.

[@yumalove7223]

She knew him since he was a child its 101 groomer move and you saying that we are trying to look good because we are showing the harmful ideas of someone you knew and had a crush on will like you if your older and you needing to wait for it is just disgusting! You're disgusting

[@cineblazer]

i personally always headcanoned p+f as being 12, which shrinks the age gap from 6-7 to 3-4 years and makes finale ferbessa less weird, but that canon confirmation tiktok comment by dan povenmire is new information to me and i wish i had not seen it. dan is a good guy but i don't think he realized the controversy he'd start.

[@sporkspawner4.10]

i'd always thought the same, but...,. dan, my guy. was it necessary.

[@thatonewriter8043]

It isn't grooming, but I think the part of it that is a little problematic is just that Dan didn't consider how different 19 is now versus when he was 19. Back then, people didn't really go to college. 19 was not only a year removed from high school, but most 19 year olds were out working, gaining real world experience and (more importantly from my perspective) sustaining themselves. The reason people see 19 year olds more as kids nowadays has less to do with actual maturity and more to do with the fact that college pretty much adds four years of partial or full dependency on a kid's parents. The inherent power imbalance of one self-sufficient partner and one partner who isn't is the big problem with age gaps in college. Do I think that would be a real problem with Ferb and Vanessa? Not really. They're relatively emotionally mature and healthy people even at the show's age, let alone with ten more years to grow as people. However, that's the part that has people concerned, and it's a reasonable concern without context. Personally, I would have just thrown Ferb into a Bill Gates type trajectory if I wanted to write him that way. He's absolutely smart and capable enough to just graduate early and/or launch quickly as a young prodigy at whatever career he decided to pursue.

[@Dolphinboi]

If this was a relationship between 2 males you’d call it grooming

[@Ingurando]

@@Dolphinboi Late to reply but holy shit throughout this comment section you're just dying to feel oppressed in some way. No, most people wouldn't call it grooming for fucks sake it depends on the context.

[@SupportGamin2025]

​@Dolphinboi no one cares about your projecting seek a therapist instead of a youtube comment section

[@snookeronidjonstattenhause7904]

I mean Ferb is a role model in my book. I too have had a crush on a girl a couple years older, and I think a lot of guys can relate. The man is living the dream.

[@guildardaze1438]

You could have the childhood sweetheart angle. They live their childhood together. And over time it has a switch. One of stage that we will never know

[@Grunkle_Stanley]

16:16 where is ferb looking 😂

[@morganqorishchi8181]

I'm so tired of people using "groomed" to mean "interacted with". People are out here on a mission to make valuable psychological terms mean nothing and screw over as many victims of actual IRL crimes as possible in the process just so they can freak out about cartoons.

[@Dolphinboi]

would this be similar to the Phillip Schofield situation?

[@thegayghost872]

I wouldn’t call her a groomer, but it’s definitely weird that they actually ended up together

[@AlexSchmid-TheAceofSpades]

I posted a comment about this, but I always assumed Ferb is a couple years older than Phineas. It's entirely plausible, and I think it actually makes a lot of sense.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@AlexSchmid-TheAceofSpades it's unlikely given their mom said they were both 40 years old when they went to th future.

[@cheetosleopard9861]

How is it weird like in anyway in the real world people meet as kids and get together as adults all the time

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@cheetosleopard9861 because those people typically are around the same age( as in 3 year gap at most). One of them isn't starting high school while the other is starting college.

[@cheetosleopard9861]

@@fightingmedialounge519 no that’s not true cause what you just described could be two people who could’ve went to elementary school together

[@Leacholotemj]

"she is 25, she has clearly graduated college" lols in double majors 🤣

[@tarvoc746]

The answer is no, and also this question would never even occur to anyone from Europe watching the show, it is a question that can exclusively occur to someone socialized in the US. I've asked this question to other friends of mine here in Germany, and they all stared at me like I had just asked them if they think the moon is made of green cheese.

[@jackventure3703]

There is a difference between grooming someone and just having them be attracted to you.

[@divine555]

It's still messed up

[@divine555]

@Edword Stileck it is, lol

[@divine555]

@Edword Stileck he was a child when they met and she was an adult lol

[@divine555]

@Edword Stileck yes there is lol image if it was a twelve year old and a fifteen year old now, see my point?

[@divine555]

@Edword Stileck learn what that pedophilia is disgusting? Trust me I already know lol

[@TheCommenterDragon]

I found this ship to be interesting, at least in terms of seeing the Ferb's romantic side. but i didn't condone the 6 year age gap between Ferb and Vanessa not that anyone did but still.

[@thecrusaderking4835]

6 year gap actually.

[@MercuryKurogane]

@@thecrusaderking4835 Yeah but a 6 year age difference when its comes to minors is a lot more noticably different than a 6 year difference between adults

[@aidanquiett668]

@@MercuryKurogane but both of them are adults in the last episode

[@rogerjack18]

I mean from what we see while it maybe weird the ship was handled really well and I'm fine with it considering from what I remember they've only interacted a bit and honestly it's how the relationship is formed if there's a 6 Yr age gape and the relationship wasn't grooming its fine.

[@Alduinhead]

All I see is two consenting adults, with the younger being a super genius and wise and experiencex beyond his years.

[@wizardfoxangel5300]

Honestly, I think they should be friends only, not in a relationship.

[@Re-Hong]

Age gap = Grooming? Wait till some of them hear about their parents' age gap and learn how they met.

[@Davidledonkayy]

my grandma was 11 years younger than her husband, they love each other :)

[@larissac9598]

Would you ever consider doing a video on Perry & Dr. Doofinsmirtz's relationship/dynamic?

[@devilheartcandy]

Now I wanna see that after he said Doof and Perry had romantic tension

[@Soo_Tired]

. . . happy thanksgiving?