Miraculous Ladybug: Shipping on Crack aka the Love Square

[@2873surabi]

The second hand embarrassment I got from that ‘statue’ scene is indescribable.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

Yeah, when I get embarrassed by a show I pause it get up walk away, and freak out 'til sitting back down but, with that scene I paused it _so,_ many times... that, and Marinette saying that Adrien's pillow has _his scent_ or, something which is when I realized that Marinette has definitely gone way too far.

[@kris_user7744]

@@MechanizedAngelz I almost threw my phone. I was covering my ears and screaming in my pillow the entire scene

[@MechanizedAngelz]

@@kris_user7744, hah! Yeah, that's also how I react basically... it's just _very_ uncomfortable to watch so, you just _don't_ want to watch it but, at the same time you _have_ to finish it so, you come back to be bothered again, ha... any scenes where Marinette is sniffing stuff while basically going _"Ah, Adrien..."_ is where I draw the line.

[@TalpaTulpa]

@@kris_user7744 for me I just muted it, put my hand over the screen, and looked away......

[@GamerShay786]

now that scene is how you make someone feel Cringe.

[@o.8.p149]

Also Alya cheered on Marinettes Stalking of Adrien Alex is the only one who hasn’t

[@Scarleto]

Girl needs a dumpster fire to roast marshmallows on and I can respect that.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

Tbh Alix is the ONLY character who’s tried to call out Mari’s behaviour. She did it in the episode Gigantitan- the one you mentioned- and once more in the NY Special. Istg Alix is one of the only sane characters left. She just wants to vibe, and I can respect that.

[@lincolnjohn8227]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios That's probably why she's ends be the last resort hero.

[@ilovecats1388]

Alix is the only sane girl lol

[@noemi9088]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios That's why she is my favorite female character of the show. She is just great and tbh her being the most normal is probably the reason why they gave her such a "dangerous" role as Bunnix. Love her to bits.

[@AdventureHusky]

You'd expect a show like this to have a toxic as fuck fandom, but then the fandom writes better AU's, side stories and plots better than the main show and that's literally the scariest thing I've ever seen from a fandom.

[@Coolsomeone234]

Interesting

[@T_E_G]

One of those rare moments when the show is toxic instead lmao

[@MiiChanx]

Except the fandom *is* toxic as fuck. The entitlement the fans have is astounding.

[@DarkWaWeeGee]

@@MiiChanx That's about every fandom. I'm with OP. Maybe I haven't been on enough fan accounts or something, but it doesn't seem bad

[@DarkWaWeeGee]

@@MiiChanx That's about every fandom. I'm with OP. Maybe I haven't been on enough fan accounts or something, but it doesn't seem bad

[@randomhooman9505]

"Not gonna lie, I started watching this show with *evil intentions* " -Sarcastic Chorus, September 2021

[@SilverAranda]

Aren't those the best intensions?

[@bostan602]

Yep, thats the first words he said!😁

[@miss_chelles1338]

@@SilverAranda no?

[@ry-rp4ol]

I love your Korra profile picture

[@yaoriattz7104]

@@miss_chelles1338 Yes

[@alexgroot2508]

Soooo imma fucking say it: To me, Miraculous is one of those fandoms where fanon started being better than canon a long time ago. The show is a dumpster fire, but some of the fanfics are just to die for. To the point that you're thinking 'can ya'll just leave the writing to the fandom? I think they'd do a better job' which is both the harshest condemnation I can think of for the writing team and the highest praise for the fandom.

[@Arella17]

Yup there’s literally a parody AU of the Office on youtube that is miles ahead of what the show could ever hope to be. When parody crossovers write better stories and characters than the show’s creator, something’s wrong.

[@alexgroot2508]

​@@Arella17 That sounds amazing lol XD for me two cents, canon Miraculous just *oozes* charm. The premise is simple, solid, and the characters are delightfully quirky. The deeper story and romance, though... has its up and downs. So I guess the fans take what works- the charm and the characters- and just toss what clearly does not work.

[@oceanetir8824]

yeah theres this comic named scarlet lady and it has a better writing than the show despite being an AU

[@thelittlespellbinder5956]

@@oceanetir8824 I know right don't watch this trashy show but read this comic that make fun of the show and the characters

[@giuliab8484]

@@Arella17 I saw that one!

[@kristinberthiaume7634]

I’d argue that both canon crushes - Marinette liking Adrien and Chat liking Ladybug - are attractions to a false identity. Ladybug is a manifestation of Marinette’s sense of duty, but she’s not the true, clumsy, messy Marinette. And Adrien, as his father’s son, has to constantly put on a face in compliance to his father’s pressures. Being Chat allows him to loosen up and be his true self because he’s no longer partially responsible for his father’s reputation. Like any relationship, to make it last, both Marinette and Chat have to learn to love the true person behind the facade. In other words, Marinette x Chat is arguably the truest form of the ship.

[@georgeb5262]

Yep, they could make this thing like the focus of the love square, but no...

[@yukiandkanamekuran]

it just is more enjoyable

[@user-kg6pr1iv4i]

I've only seen Marinette act clumsy around Adrien, and in the opening scene of the show. She kind of just loses it, and I feel like the Marinette Adrien sees is a lot different than the actual Marinette.

[@catinabanana1595]

@@georgeb5262 they will. Have you seen glaciator 2 ?

[@mcexpresso3870]

and the worst part is they don't like eachother IN THAT FORM

[@TravelWithCesarin]

Ironically, the episode where they lost their memory was probably the best episode I've watched. They genuinely build from zero, with no stigmas and build their friendship towards love.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

It was like the ship on speedrun mode.

[@TravelWithCesarin]

@Caiden Leonard I honestly found it refreshing, but then was pissed off when they reverted AGAIN to the same bullshit on the next episodes. Def they are going to milk and keep us hostage.

[@TravelWithCesarin]

@Caiden Leonard palpatine.jpg "DO IT!"

[@serpentmaster1323]

I love that episode so much. So cool to see how well they work together as their whole selves when the slate is wiped clean. Of corse it’s annoying that they don’t remember it, but I knew it wouldn’t last the moment I realized what was happening. I actually don’t get caught up in the shipping at all, I just love seeing the different dynamic when they meet half and half. Im mostly just here for superheroes

[@TravelWithCesarin]

@@serpentmaster1323 Exactly. Still was a hit in the guts when they rolled back to the same toxic behaviour and escalated it to 11 in later episodes. (Ie, throwing Luka in the mix)

[@obara7366]

"Because writing them together would be too much realism for your average 10 year old-" Funny you say that. I often babysat my landlord's then 8 year old son. I tried getting him into Miraculous, and he was down at first but after half of season 1 he refused to keep watching Marinette and Adrien skirt around each other. He would yell at the TV "Look at the hair! Look at the hair! It's the same hair!" The episode where they were supposed to be models/actresses and they were both about to put on the masks pissed him off so much. The little darling swore off the show and resorted to only skimming through the latest episodes on KZbin to see if they've finally gotten their shit together.

[@miss_chelles1338]

Omg- haha! 😂

[@dumbledorf5029]

This kid's reaction is just me in a nutshell.

[@resindildapidos]

Lmao I don't even know his name but I love him

[@obara7366]

@@resindildapidos He's a sweetheart. I hope he's doing well now. He should be 11 now.

[@capricornofjanuary4thbakug92]

Love that for him. 🤣

[@everwildart3563]

Alex is Marinette's only normal friend who doesn't seem to agree with the stalking Adrien thing...good for her

[@Limacinablues]

Alix.

[@natalyaporter5730]

And tikki

[@LanguagesandCreativity]

And Alyah.

[@leigha3873]

@@LanguagesandCreativity not her, alyah has been her number one enabler since day one

[@4everinthe4d]

@@leigha3873 nah fr

[@angelxsiren0]

The stalking is so bad. It's actually a fun example of sexism. If the roles were switched and Adrian was stalking Marinette I don't even think that would air at this point. I am dying for the day someone in the show wakes Mari up and tells her that in no way is that ok. But they won't.

[@NameName-yj7lp]

I hope someone dose because as a teen girl I can tell you when we have crushes the most we remember is when we pass them in the hallways not their ENTIRE LIFE DAY TO DAY TIME

[@solticewytch]

I had the impression that the creator genuinly thinks that all of this stalker behaviour and not taking no for answer isn't just okay but romantic and wholesome... so i doubt that the show will actually call marinette or adrien out on this at any point.

[@oceanetir8824]

ikr

[@semolinalibra]

Yeah imagine Adrien sniffing Marinette’s pillow

[@squelettefaineants4359]

I personally don't think it's that serious mostly because I watch a lot of anime with pervy characters (sanji from one piece) but the show does need to limit marinette attitude.

[@desidominguez2876]

I feel deeply sorry for Cristina Vee for having to voice a crazy teenage stalker caressing and sniffing a statue of her crush, who was also her actual crush pretending to be a statue. This is part of her legacy now.

[@metropunklitan]

AHAHAHAHAHA

[@cidneyforney8278]

@@amethishi people say that? But she has so many other iconic voices under her belt (Killua, Homura, Rei Hino)

[@desidominguez2876]

​@@cidneyforney8278 Okay that *is* true (there’s also Sailor Mars), I just felt like Ladybug was one of her more mainstream and well known roles (though I could be wrong, feel free to correct me). Either way, Cristina Vee's too good for this scene!

[@cidneyforney8278]

@@desidominguez2876 rei hino is sailor mars, no hate just got confused

[@desidominguez2876]

@@cidneyforney8278 whoops, my bad =P (I never watched sailor moon)

[@brainstorm006]

And let's not forget that at least FOUR TIMES we have heard that Adrien and Marinette are "meant for each other" throughout the whole show. It's like they keep reminding us that no matter how sensible Lukanette is or how Adrien and Kagami is still better, Adrinette WILL happen.

[@liamdalemon1525]

I now want the series to end without them getting together as a bit of a message about how you need to be in charge of your own future and shouldn't base your life around what's expected of them

[@Doomzdeh]

Lukanette is NOT sensible. Honestly, no ships except Ladynoir or Marichat are sensible. Because Marinette idolizes Adrien and treated Luka like a rebound. She never really seemed to put much effort into dating Luka or understanding his feelings, and never put any trust into him. The only guy that Marinette actually has a good dynamic with, in the show, is Chat Noir. Not Adrien either. Just Chat Noir. But the show won’t let her let go of Adrien

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@nite_is_a_wire Ah yes, my favourite ship dynamic: sexual harassment. No but seriously though you’ve hit the nail on the head here. I can’t in any good conscious ship these two anymore. The writers, in an attempt to show how cute these two are together, have reduced the Love Square to a toxic cesspool. And the ONE ship that could’ve led to a healthier dynamic- Marichat- was reduced to a toxic relationship in Glaciator 2 as well. It’s like the writers are DELIBERATELY going out of their way to make this pairing as despicable and as unpleasant as humanly possible. It also doesn’t help that they’ve forsaken literally ALL other aspects of the plot to solely focus on the romance. I’m usually a sucker for two dorks trying to navigate the minefield we call love. But because the writers are so out of touch with how crushes ACTUALLY work, I am just praying for the day these dumb kids step on one of those mines and learn that stalking and sexual harassment have consequences. Oh. And let’s not forget Chat actually did get what he wanted by constantly whining in S4, since they hinted in Strike Back’s ending that LB is falling for him. Fan-fucking-tastic. And now Adrien’s falling for Marinette, and is acting JUST as creepy towards her by trying to force two kisses on her in Multiplication. Which means she might go back to stalking him, which is just- is it too much to ask to have a healthy romance in this show?

[@byronrush9802]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios it just might be too much to ask for a healthy relationship of course I'm in the they should date other people's sector of the fandom personally Adrian doesn't deserve her I said it from season 1 and I'll say it again but also Marinette doesn't deserve him stalking should never be rewarded a restraining order or prison time is your only reward

[@Popgurliess]

​@@Doomzdeh lukanette is nothing to me. its just luka making some metaphors of music and maris like *blush uwu*

[@AOGood]

I stopped caring about the main ship and am now just paying attention to the side ships, which feel way better than whatever the fuck is going on with those 4, 6, maybe someday 8, who knows

[@nerdcentral8484]

Rose X Juleka OTP!

[@AdoboSoGuud]

Marcthaniel 1111 ☝☝

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@nerdcentral8484 Don't forget about ivan x mylene

[@So_Indecisive]

@@kittykittybangbang9367 Yes,one of best/best ship

[@littlesparrow303]

For real!! Anyone is better for Marinette cause at least she’s more of herself around them. Like I ship her with Luka, Fei, Nathaniel & Jess (from NY special)

[@wintersoldier164]

The show would be good if they focused also about plots and character arcs

[@anarchomando7707]

Hey they said the same thing about Rwby we've never got that

[@littlesparrow303]

Yeah!! This is why I wish they sticked with the anime plan they wanted to do from the start

[@heyimhere7048]

Reminds me of SVTFOE and Marco getting shipped with *everyone*

[@andynonymous6769]

y'know like an actual story does

[@miss_chelles1338]

Exactly.

[@claresaguban3471]

"It even smells exactly like him" I almost died from cringe when she did that.

[@siddhipandey9653]

i skipped that part it was giving me second hand embarrassment 💀

[@N.I.A23]

How does she know how he smells like????

[@starsrcool..]

@@N.I.A23 uuuum she's a creep and stalks Adrian

[@byronrush9802]

@@starsrcool.. yeah it wouldn't be so bad if she could talk to him like a regular person but no the show has dived real deep into the creep Factor of a stalker, she hasn't started cutting herself so that's something and she hasn't kidnapped him yet and graped him they're saving that for season 10 that's the dark future that awaits she doesn't stop obsessing over him maybe she should have just listened to Alia and just shot her shot and if he would have rejected her it's not like she doesn't have a line of guys who want to date her because she does

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

I think my lower intestines imploded from the second hand embarrassment I just experienced from that clip.

[@newblood4094]

God, I remember that episode when Marionette was telling all her gal friends about the schedule she memorized and has written down about Adrien's life. It really was a "what the fuck" moment. Mari reminds me of Helga from Hey Arnold! but you know, without the bullying and all the stalking.

[@kpopgirl7987]

And without the family issues

[@o.8.p149]

Marinette stalks Adrien

[@kpopgirl7987]

@@o.8.p149 yeah, we know.

[@icession4872]

Literally a Yandere type on an "Non-japanese Cartoon"

[@kpopgirl7987]

@@icession4872 idk, I think calling her a yandere is a liiiiiitle too far.

[@EddyA-sw5ox]

As many have said before me, this show is a like a car accident on the freeway. It's horrible, messed up and avoidable but you can't stop yourself from looking at it.

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

I like it

[@Chrisdish]

I understand the joke. However I have several questions on why you would be looking at a car accident that you describe as, "horrible" as you are driving down the freeway, in a car yourself, possibly with others.

[@EddyA-sw5ox]

@@Chrisdish I would be looking in the sense that the accident already occurred and the car(s) involved are now on the side of the road. Obviously there would be traffic because of the accident so there would be sufficient time to see the wreck. It's such a spectacle that most people wouldn't be able to not look at.

[@Chrisdish]

@@EddyA-sw5ox oh, thank makes sense, I live in an area where all car crashes happen in the middle of a densely populated area. Thank you for explaining.

[@EddyA-sw5ox]

@@Chrisdish I see what you mean. You're welcome for explaining though. PS. I like your icon. I love Chowder and I saw their Re-Animated special.

[@aela_brooklyn6723]

*spoilers* I truly feel like Marinette peaked as a person at the finale of season 3 where she let go of Adrien, started exploring her feelings and relationship with Luka, and Adrien was with Kagami. That scene where she walked pasted him to go sit with Luka felt amazing to see cause i was proud of her for letting go. Then s4 started and she went right back to where she was and i was annoyed

[@satinsleeves]

FUCKING PREACH THAT WAS SO ANNOYING.

[@cawmellian3394]

for me i was glad that they went back to it because it felt like it would have been a painful solution and a waste of three seasons of build-up. also, after they both broke up, the show could finally use luka and kagami as characters whose purpose ISN'T just being a love interest for the main male and female protagonist. also, luka literally knows who the secret identities of both of them are now from Wishmaker which means he can finally have some non-romance related role (hopefully including a canon manifestation of the audience's frustrations about the love square). kagami has a lot of sense in her too so she can make a good friend for marinette, especially that now jealousy has been removed from the equation.

[@onijester56]

@@cawmellian3394 There's a yes and no. Kagami and Luka never have to be final partners, but as temporary love interests they can definitely help both Marinette and Adrien develop into less-problematic characters. Take "Simpleman" where her grandpa gets akumatized because he's upset with modern things being "too complicated". Why, in his days only bad-guys wear black! And hero solved all their problems by punching the bad-guy! A massive aspect to that Season 4 episode is how Marinette forsakes babysitting a bunch of the younger siblings so that she can stalk Adrien. This is why she thrusts the kids upon her grandpa, which upsets said grandpa because of all their technology and things he's too old to understand. Rewrite the episode so that Marinette, dating Luka or at least not obsessed with Adrien, has agreed to babysit the kids. Because the kids almost get into the Miracle Box, she still takes them to her grandpa's place. And explains some things like how you shouldn't judge a jelly-filled brioche by its dough, or how being akumatized is like being brainwashed and Ladybug doesn't want to hurt the otherwise-innocent person being used by Hawk Moth. Giving an effort to relate modern things in terms that her grandpa can understand. But she (in an oversight caused by her getting her days mixed up) also agreed to platonically fashion-design for one of Adrien's shoots. So she has to rush out, is helping Adrien with the shoot/commercial, and since she's not there to keep the peace her grandpa gets overwhelmed and becomes "Simple Man". --- Keeping the secondary-interests as the current temporary partners also acts to remove the jealousy so long as we keep them as relatively-responsible characters who have developed and grown from who they were in Season 1, giving every bit of the Luka/Adrien and Kagami/Marinette friendships the spotlight they deserve. Hell, by this we can even take away a lot of the romance drama shit and focus on the lore and character friendships and such. And then this can build later with Ladybug and Cat Noir getting romantically closer until (maybe because of an akuma, maybe not, idk) they end up kissing...which would spark some romance drama. Actually, that would be awesome to have Marinette shut-down about cheating on Luka with Cat Noir, like how can she call herself a good friend (let alone a good girlfriend!) if she can't be honest with her boyfriend and also is in love with someone else? Only for Luka to come in and confess that he knows. He knows everything. Something like "I know you love Cat Noir, Ladybug." "But I also love you! Just...just..." *bawls into her knees* "Just not in the same way that you love him. And, honestly, you were made for each other." "Can we still be friends, though? I don't want you to be upset, and I don't want to lose you." "Of course! I'm not gonna abandon my friends. Either you or..." (cuts himself off realizing he almost gave away Cat Noir's identity) And have somewhere in that how Ladybug realizes how he knows, i.e. "Wishmaker".

[@rhemifletcher9387]

I honestly really hoped that Luka and Marinette would stay together. I kind of understood Marinette breaking up with Luka because balancing here superhero life and her personal life is hard but after they broke up, she went straight back to simping for Adrien which really pissed me off. It made it seem like since Adrien was dating Kagami, she just dated Luka because she knew Luka liked her back but during their relationship, she still liked Adrien. I hope that Luka gets screen time and character development like other characters. I hope they didn't just throw away Luka and recycle him if they didn't have any better ideas for new episodes because it seems like Luka was just added for the drama and the romantic tension. Overall, I prefer Lukanette over Adrienette

[@pabloa8102]

“Yes I did watch Chat Blanc, it was a waste of time” THANK YOU, FUCKING FINALLY SOMEONE AGREES.

[@Featheryfaith7]

It was from a fanfic. Not kidding.

[@ForrestFox626]

I just want them to be a couple

[@carlwheezer2808]

ikr that felt like a fever dream and it didn't even accomplish anything

[@worldsbestchoirboy]

Carl Wheezer I love you carl

[@Jennifer-uc4lr]

EXACTLY

[@bibarel5097]

This show is *THE* guilty pleasure...

[@zucchini3857]

Absolutely

[@ForrestFox626]

Hell yeah!

[@cidneyforney8278]

Yeah

[@catgirl-jj8no]

Yup 😭

[@TheSpencermacdougall]

Yep.

[@seIocity]

i feel alix is the only sane one left. she’s literally the only one who pointed out how marinettes stalking in weird asf

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

*(Spoilers for S5)* Maybe it’s a good thing she’s staying in the Burrow now. She got to escape the madness of this show.

[@TV-ly3dp]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios true dat Alix needs to stay in there and leave Cat Noir and Ladybug alone and let them fall apart and LOSE A FRICKING BATTLE LIKE STOP WINNING ALL THE TIME (To make it clear I'm not mad at Alix or this person I'm replying to I'm mad at Thomas Astruc FOR NEVER LETTING THEM LOSE LIKE BUILD EOM3 CHARCTER DEPTH AND LET THEM BLOODY LOOOOOOOOOOOOSE)

[@claudius3359]

​​@@TV-ly3dpThat's been my beef with the show.They're so afraid of taking risks and drastic measures when it's staple for a superhero story (or,a decent story in general). It's a superhero story,but it focuses too much on its terrible romance and NOT the superhero part.Why should I care about Paris getting wrecked by akumatized people if she can just whip up the reset button and have the actual catastrophe be a love triangle? What are they trying to do?? Even when the Avengers won,they have to deal with the damage,the alien technology being used illegally,civilian casualties,PTSD (Tony,Erik Selvig,Clint),and the government.MLB doesn't even have the bravery to do smaller problems,like what if Mari's parents doesn't like her being Ladybug? How would Adrien confront his father if he knew he's Chat Noir?

[@SarahStar246]

Honestly the sidequests should've had inverse routes... Marinette and Kagami spending time together was wholesome as Hell and Adrien could really learn to relax from Luca

[@nightsky4145]

Luka and Adriens friendship would be so wholesome and soft

[@RadiantBleu]

we should have had OG Felix

[@MrZakiaashraf]

@@RadiantBleu yes

[@MrZakiaashraf]

@@nightsky4145 Yes

[@SarcasticChorus]

Luka X Adrien?

[@damkylan3]

7:11 So basically, the Owl House and the Hunter fandom. Also, it's nice to see someone call out Adrien for once. Marinette deserves to be called out, but nobody ever points out that Adrien's "true self" as Cat Noir can't take a hint to back off and relentlessly pursues Ladybug. They rightfully complain about Thomas presenting stalking as humorous, but turn around and make not leaving someone alone out to be romantic.

[@kris_user7744]

Yeah. Chat Noir needs to learn that no means no and learn how to distance himself.

[@niabella8897]

I confuse about hunter

[@pandaworld8166]

Yeah, I admit to not bringing up Chat; it was, mainly, because it was called out by the show itself in a way, and It was easier to brush off as flirts in the beginning. But no one really called out Marinette so I sorta lost sight of him-

[@ryancarson6962]

Well in Adrien's case the reason why no one seems to bring up his own problems stem from two things about the show. The first being that Marinette is THE main protagonist of the show and thus has more screen time than Adrien and the second being that the show itself likes to portray Marinette as a good girl and role model who doesn't have any problems in regards to her feelings on Adrien like her rivals. These two things combined with the fact that the show likes to play her blatant stalker tendencies for laughs far more than it really should is what makes her issues even more noticeable. As it ends up making it seem as if the show is saying that stalking people is totally okay if your a girl, and the "Stalking is Funny if its Female on Male" trope in general is quickly being seen as problematic and something only horrible people do to a person, i.el a horrible lesson for young girls, so the fact that the main heroine of the entire show displays these qualities is legitimately messed up.

[@damkylan3]

​@@ryancarson6962 That's true. I still think it warrants being called out, but especially lately, with Adrien losing focus and Marinette still being front and center doing the same shtick, it's a lot more apparent.

[@nikispade1350]

I'll be honest Chant Blanc was honestly pretty creepy. Adrien finds out ladybugs identity and immediately goes to hit that without ever telling her who he is. I liked It a lot because the fanfics after that was nuts but it was pretty weird. They both got to be creepy with each other in pretty much a dream lol

[@Fatima-mz6zu]

Omg yessss, I never see people talking about this when discussing Chat Blanc, it was SO weird that he went head first into a relationship with Marinette on the sole basis that she was Ladybug, not telling her his identity could be a more complicated but i still think they rushed it, it gave for good fanfiction and fanwork but that is basically what the whole show is, good or interesting ideas/concepts that fans make ten thousand times better than the creators

[@nikispade1350]

@@Fatima-mz6zu YEsss! Thank you even in season 4 (Spoilers ) but when it was the opposite way around, Marinette took a minute to Chat Noir and Adrien together, to adjust! But Adrien just went straight into it! And he didn't admit his identity either not until he was forced too. It just made Adrien really creepy in comparison even though Marinette is usually the stalker. I love them both but omg so many issues.

[@jhkgyg098]

GOD! Someone finally fucking said it. I've gotten more and more into the "God just get them together so we can actually see them as a couple" movement. Cause yes! At the very end of the show or in a fucking tv movie they are going to get together and that will be it. Then what?! So i can read a bunch of fanfiction to supplement with the writers couldn't make!! WHATS THE POINT! Nino and Alya are great! Seeing them in a relationship is great! I want that for the main pair like damn. But they gotta milk it for all the views. Im glad MariChat was also the most unrealistic but also fucking peak content.

[@littlesparrow303]

True cause sometimes when couples get together. Afterward they just didn’t work out. But Marichat is the only true ship that can start from Friends to developing feelings naturally

[@megana4788]

It seems to me they might be FINALLY getting them together at the end of season 4, I'm looking forward to it

[@nicolelouise7295]

Marichat is literally the most healthy one is this contrived love square. Like I sometimes forget Marinette is Ladybug bc of how their attitude changes in a way that doesn't parallel eachother. In these Marichat moments we see a the more sassier side of Mari that is only shown with Chat and Chat showing his more 'true' side that the Ladybug in Mari thinks is just him being a goofy nitwit, if Chat shows a more serious side that the Ladybug in Mari never really seen during action it could potentially spark something like in their few interactions.

[@Duhgel]

Marichat was the shit back in the day, so many good drawn artwork showing their progression to revealing their identities/to being good friends, and all that mushy good fluff.

[@carlwheezer2808]

IKR they really are milking it. the creator makes some questionable decisions like announcing on twitter that "the reveal is happening in season 5 guys!!1!!1!!" and confirming season 6 when season 4 as of now hasn't even finished airing.

[@dangercats77]

As a fellow degenerate, I would certainly feel bad for Luka IF HE ACTUALLY HAD A PERSONALITY

[@kittykatycupcake318]

Luka’s main purpose is to be a love interest for Marinette. He plays guitar. That’s about it.

[@MrZakiaashraf]

He's a freaking plot device that will eventually get stabbed.

[@erenjaeuwus]

luka was actually only added to be a love interest for marinette, which sucks because his kind of composed character is something I like in writing, but seeing it again, he's unfortunately flawless. They tried to force down some backstory of luka's past all of a sudden during the same episode that revealed luka/mari were dating and then BREAK UP, it was way too forced and sudden. Honestly the idea this show was going for is perfect and interesting, it's the way they ended up portraying it is like having this great idea in mind for a project, and instead of trying to construct it, you take a shit on it and call it art.

[@thatsomeone4149]

@@erenjaeuwus can’t you believe Marinette and Luka got together at the end of S3 and broke up right after in the next episode which is In S4, damn that’s some grEat writing 😀

[@andresamaya6187]

@@erenjaeuwus very rude of you to disrespect my favorite art masterpiece "Artist's Shit" like that

[@ic236]

Marinette is a stalker, Adrien doesn't know the meaning of "no", wow what a fun kids' show

[@BlackCroft666]

Adrien at least has a reason for being socially akward. He is raised isolated after all. Also Ladybug flirts back and is mad when he stops flirting with her.

[@u_o_me_a_muffin]

@@BlackCroft666 You must really love Chat Noir/Adrien if you’re wasting time commenting on similar comments like this.... both are in the wrong regardless so accept that, don’t justify it (Hopefully your mind was changed after Glaciator 2 though 😬).

[@arosegaming4793]

My favorite part of Marinettes character is the fanon that she has EVERYONES schedules to the hour- it dulls down the obsessive without dulling her lovable craziness. Marichat is my favorite of the love square simply because thats the ship where they are most honest and comfortable with themselves and each other. There's trust, admiration, and teamwork. Don't get me wrong, it has problems too, but I can't really point to something and call it toxic either.

[@alexgroot2508]

Oh that's a fun concept! Marinette just being a walking timetable for everyone. "Hey Juleka, what are you doing here? I thought you had a date with Rose at 3...?" "Son of a-!" *races off* Agree with the shipping preferences. I think the only 'toxic' trait MariChat has is that both of them go into knowing full well that they are lying and taking advantage of their partner's/friend's trust. But I think the fact that they _both_ do it, and that there's definitely more genuine good bits to it than bad, evens it out for me.

[@happybunnyntx]

That would make sense after we see how her mom operates pretty much like that in Qilin. She timed out how many sweets the bus driver would eat before Marinette could make it. I could definitely Marinette just being a messier version of that right now.

[@onijester56]

Actually, I would love if a reboot or "DBZ Kai" thing had Marinette even mildly obsessive over everyone's schedules. Maybe not to the hour, but... Look, Marinette shows in a Season 4 episode that she's kept track of exactly how often Mr. Pidgeon has been 'akumatized'. And she's inventive enough that after whichever time it was in that episode, she creates a "magic charm" with which to repel the akuma in the first place. She's already meticulous, add in that she now wants to protect her friends from Hawk Moth (who weirdly keeps targeting her friends for some strange reason). And the best thing is that this could work to introduce her appointment of an array of Temporary Heroes earlier. In the episode where Tikki gets sick, Marinette finds out about Master Fu...have it such that Marinette can't transform into Ladybug for the rest of that episode or the next. She appoints the only freely-available friend at the moment, Alya, to be a hero in her stead...presenting Rena Rogue. Master Fu is directed where to go, and hands Alya the Fox Miraculous with the caveat to return it to Ladybug when "she" is feeling better. Which would spin *perfectly* to when Lila comes on and pretends to be Rena Rogue. Because that's kinda a really big coincidence Lila mentions a superhero who no one knows even exists, and then that superhero actually does exist with exactly that set of powers? You could even get multiple episodes out of this, where Rena Rouge manages to work well with Cat Noir. But since they can't purify the akuma and reset the destruction, someone else gets akumatized. Then as Rena and Cat are overpowered, Ladybug swings to the rescue. This could even push Ladybug to contemplate Alya keeping the Miraculous, but being bound by duty to not allow that as an option. And Alya, being true to her word, would shut that down by stating how she promised the old guy that she would give it back to its rightful owner. (Cue when Marinette grants Alya status as her 'secret keeper', which would have to be somewhere in Season 3 or even late Season 2 for the time-table I want instead of Season 4 as it currently is... Marinette will hand Alya the Fox Miraculous and say "This belongs with its rightful owner". The lightbulb clicks on, maybe even Alya's mouth going agape, in direct response to which Marinette transforms in front of Alya.)

[@AnnthemofArt]

why is fanfiction better than what this show could give us 😭😭

[@byronrush9802]

@@AnnthemofArt sadly the majority of the writers are no talent hacks and a lot of them have little to no dating experience so they rely on tropes stocking trope will always be creepy just now act like a regular person maybe they'll like you but stockings not cool building shrines to them is not cool I'm looking at you Helga from hey Arnold and being a passive aggressive and abusing people is not cool Helga

[@ithinkyoudidgreat2273]

You know adrinette has it bad when an entire fandom makes an unwritten rule to not talk about the statue scene....

[@dianehallmeyer8901]

What statue scene? *Holds gun to your head* there is. No. Statue. Scene. /J

[@marigalante944]

@@dianehallmeyer8901 We don't talk about S3 EP12 NO NO NO! We don't talk about S3 EP12...but It was August 1st 2019 (It was an airing day) We were getting ready, and there weren't any spoilers on the Internet (No leaks allowed in the Internet) S3 EP12 starts with a mischievous start (CRINGE!) You're transcribing the script on wiki, or am I? (I'm sorry, bro, go on) S3 EP12 says, "It looks like second-hand embarrassment" (WHY DID YOU SHOW US THAT SCENE?) In doing so, it kills my sanity (BRO PAUSE THIS RIGHT NOW) Pausing this in chaos (What a hopeless day...but anyway) We don't talk about S3 EP12 NO NO NO! We don't talk about S3 EP12!

[@dianehallmeyer8901]

@@marigalante944 LMAO

[@somi.8995]

There is no statue scene in ba sing se

[@nahicorua]

And then they had to go make THAT the day Adrien "rEaLizEd HiS fEeLinGS chANgEd" The writers are tone deaf man, that, or they are trying to piss the fandom off and it's working LMFAOOO

[@NoiseDay]

Y'all commenters like, "Marichat gives them room to fall in love for real." and I'm like, "Let Marichat be a thing so they can realize how garbage they both are."

[@Rainjojo]

LMAO YES THIS HERE! All the ships in the love square are garbage

[@byronrush9802]

Yes so marionette can realize she only loves the ideal version of Adrian and not the real him and can finally move on and be with somebody else not luka anybody besides him and Adrian

[@nono-qj9pm]

I'd even dare say every single ship in the show is garbage because of the root: garbage writing.

[@timidArimations]

I think this show's shipping culture started before the show even came out, so them still not being together feels like torture. If we don't at least get a identity reveal by the end of s4 ;-; but they've renewed the show for like... 7 seasons (or even more) and I am scared. ALSO Marichat is best

[@Mientuw]

@Miraculously %obsessed% +1, like... they're friends and there was marichat episode showing how fucked up this ship is

[@littlesparrow303]

Yeah having specials between each season & does play a role in the series. It may not look big but it will later on since the show likes to do foreshadowing in almost everything

[@anordinarygurl9642]

I heard that maybe there's going to be 5-6 seasons...sooooo the reveal might take a long time

[@Neo-Queenserenityt2l]

I'm pretty sure it will happen either this season which is season 4 or season 5 since the show was originally supposed to be just 5 seasons so it will happen

[@vivien3630]

@Miraculously %obsessed% no, it's the best ship, they are natural and honest with eachother + they can be themselves, they have the best dynamic and are so open with each other. maybe they do not like eachother, but even then, they still have one of the best relationships (platonic and romantic(+ ship 'energy')) in the whole show, if they would have feelings for each other they could be perfect if they still act this way

[@tintedpalette653]

I’ve never understood why the fandom has isolated the four different dynamics of Marinette and Adrien. I thought the whole point was that each dynamic enhances their relationship. Through different contexts, they learn a different side of each other they normally wouldn’t see. So when the facade of their secret identities is removed, they realize they know more about each other than they realized (which will come as a shock they’ll reconcile about). It’s why I like it most when they hang out as Marinette and Cat Noir. Because that’s them seeing the less ideal identities of their crush in a more positive light. When the reveal does happen, the show has established that the two already enjoy the side of their crush that isn’t part of their ideal fantasy (Adrien to Marinette and Marinette to Cat Noir). The other three dynamics involve one or both of them stuck in their fantasies about the other that they can’t really communicate healthily.

[@rinyukiohara8178]

Yes, but that’s a good idea that leads to interesting character development and relationship growth. So of course the show wouldn’t do that.

[@quietopinion9637]

Marichat is as unhealthy as the other dynamics. Change my mind.

[@randomcomment1286]

@@quietopinion9637 I don't really see how it is. With Marichat, we don't have Marinette being a stalker, or Chat being a creep. Can you please explain why you think Marichat is toxic, because I'm genuinely curious.

[@scarxnnivs]

@@randomcomment1286 Ignore them. That person is a hardcore Mari stan who can and will shit on everyone else just to put Mari on a pedestal. Encountered them too many times.

[@satinsleeves]

Think of it like which part of the love square is the initial springboard that the full relationship comes from.

[@unknown_limes]

I actually kinda love how much of a dumpster fire the Miraculous Love Square is. Chat Blanc showed us what would happen if they got together AND IT DESTROYED THE ENTIRE PLANET. How the fuck are we still supposed to want this ship to be the endgame when we've been explicitly told it will end in disaster? There's also the memory wipe episode where they were only working out so long as they didn't know anything about each other. The Love Square literally can't work with the way it's been established, and it's fucking fantastic.

[@onijester56]

See, though, it actually works as an endgame *because* of what we learn first in "Chat Blanc" and then in "Ephemeral". The reason Hawk Moth is able to win is because, as Gabriel Agreste, he's able to catch onto the fact that his son Adrien is Cat Noir when Adrien lets his guard down and slips into the Cat Noir personality while obsessing over Marinette. Once Gabriel is disposed of as Hawk Moth, this complication is removed and the romance can blossom. However, the caveat is that this means it must be employed as an endgame. And as a result, they need to dedicate time to other pairings. We need Luka/Marinette and Adrien/Kagami to actually last for even a couple episodes. At least enough to rebuild the "Love Square" (or, specifically its participants) in a way that it would work. That would, so I believe, be the most amazing thing they could do...and not just because that's how many people actually experience their teenage relationships. Your first boyfriend/girlfriend is almost never the person you're gonna end up with. And even if they are, the relationship is almost always unhealthy if you only remained with them and never dated anyone else.

[@shadenox8164]

This is my position on it as well. Though its pretty obvious they'll get together after they defeat Hawkmoth since as Anthony pointed out that's literally the only reason its a bad idea. In the mean time, the absolute awkwardness and absurdity is just so goddamn entertaining. The main character has a super power that can literally reset all the damage caused during the villain's rampage including anything the hero's do and sometimes even shit that happened before Hawkmoth did anything and its this relationship dynamic I find absurd.

[@lilil9752]

How could i end up hating something that i used to love? Season 3 acomplished that in like five episodes (and the fandom doesn't help) i loved the love square and i ended up hating it

[@b.h.4249]

Same, honestly. There's so many people still calling this show great and crying over episodes like Chat Blanc when all I can see is messy writing and the characters slowly but surely breaking down. I'm just glad Kagami got out of it okay. She deserves better.

[@Arella17]

@@b.h.4249 I literally only stick around just for the fandom content because so much of it is written so much better.

[@b.h.4249]

@@Arella17 Yeah, same. I love seeing people roast the show online, so I watch it in order to always be up to date in terms of context. I also just need to see how this train wreck ends, I can't stop now.

[@icession4872]

Yeah honestly this show is like Wasted potential. Great Ideas all around but dang the execution is just fcking Awful like Legit the fans makes the show more like a real show than this current mess. Like legit if someday this show gets rebooted/revamped (somehow) then I hope the person who does it will not fck it up. From the messy story writing, to the character interactions, and even how the story is developing its just sad seeing how an (again) Great Idea is just being misutilised not to mention even tho its an chronological Show its Episodes isn't even chronologically right it's an jumbled mess.

[@b.h.4249]

@@icession4872 Seriously. Concepts like Chat Blanc have been done in amazing ways by fans years before the writers of the show even started putting it on paper. There's just no genuine heart in this show anymore (if there ever was one to begin with) and most things that I was excited about seeing further developed ended up being touched upon in very unsatisfying ways and then forgotten about. Miraculous would have to pull of a miracle in order to redeem itself in my eyes but I very much doubt it'll ever happen with people like Thomas Astruc at the helm of the production.

[@DragonClaudz]

Marichat is the most genuine since it lets them be themselves. Though i agree lukanette is fantastic too

[@miss_chelles1338]

It's not them being themselves tho.... how are yall coming up with that nonsense?

[@elizabethmau6749]

@@miss_chelles1338 wait I always that was when they were the most natural since Marinette and Adrian both don’t act love sick. Since Marinette has a crush on Adrian she acts weirdly and Adrian has a crush on ladybug so he does the same. Plus Adrian doesn’t have to be confined as the obedient piano boy to his dad haha, he gets to be chat noir.

[@benstieb7435]

@@miss_chelles1338 did you write a paragraph

[@elizabethmau6749]

@@miss_chelles1338 Hmm I understand your point about real selves. My good self act is just as true and real to I am just as my bad self. So Marinette being a stuttering self is still her real self. But what I meant by “natural” is that they’re able to be more honest with each other in these forms. There’s no evidence for it, you’re right about that honestly. But like… Marinette not speaking her honest thoughts to Adrian is just hard to watch. Seeing Adrian put ladybug on a pedestal is hard to watch. They’re just not seeing the other person fully is what I mean. Marichat is more tolerable because they speak to each other naturally because they don’t worship each other. Of course I don’t think this ship is superior but I don’t think it’s bad? I definitely don’t want to shove this ship in other people’s throats but I just like to explain why this ship so far hasn’t given me second hand embarrassment like adrienette lol and it doesn’t creep me out like ladynoir cuz of noirs advances. Anyway yeah, totally support with what you’re saying but I can also see why marichat is so popular. Even if its not something that can happen haha.

[@ballcrusher999]

@@miss_chelles1338 you are probably 11 years old toxic fangirl first learn other people have their own opinion and ships

[@joelrosenberg8933]

Marinette and Chat is the most fun because they're not tripping over themselves and their crushes overtaking the entire relationship. it's actually just two people learning how to make it work and get along with no alternative motivations or feelings being withheld under the surface. honestly the show would do so much better if it was more focused on them just being friends instead of hamfisting their crushes into every scene when they're both on screen

[@o.m9514]

Oh no, cat noir is still a hoe.

[@xenohans9364]

I feel the creator knows it's attracting shippers who are way too old for this show and actively trolling them. The guy is quite spiteful. Based on his reaction to people wanting Chole having a redemption arc. That's his straw...girl? for one that hurt him, and by God, will he torment that fictional character till he feels vindication. I have no dog in this show and stopped watching long ago. But it's fun to poke my head in and see how terrible the fandom is doing.

[@brian_Austin27]

Yeah, he has this weird obsession with hating that girl and trying to make people hate her but the fandom hates Marinette and likes chole because of her obsession with Adrian 😂😂😭

[@SnuubScadoob]

Oh the show is an absolute shit show! I pop in occasionally just to see how much worse its gotten and HOOO BOY is it bad! The fandom pretty much defends Marinette's stalking to an insanely creepy degree.

[@ff10payne20]

I'm guessing that he was bullied by mean girls back in his childhood. He created Chloe as a way to get back at those girls, and he doesn't feel like they deserve any redemption. It's just like how J.K Rowling manifested her bullies into Malfoy.

[@burner-phone]

@@ff10payne20 and we love draco now lmfao this is so funny

[@satinsleeves]

@@SnuubScadoob "The fandom pretty much defends Marinette's stalking to an insanely creepy degree." Really have to disagree. I'm sure there's a minority of the fandom that does but most people I know who love the show pretty much acknowledge Marinette is creepy as hell and fanon writes her WAY better.

[@Rosemont104]

Why is it that these recent shows make 'ships the main selling point? Any soap opera or teen live-action drama could do that. We do not need it in animation too. It really shows their lack of story or substance otherwise. It's always between the blandest main girl and guy character too. The guy in particular could either be a generic nice guy or bad boy. These protagonists' only goal is to get their donut - er, crush - at the end of their hard day fighting bad guys. Also, you were on point about the "inevitability" peppered with better options AKA "side quests." How dehumanizing it is that all other romantic options are relegated to "side quests" and "obstacles." It's like each 'ship show is a tedious chess game where the writers respect nobody except their heroes/self-inserts.

[@megana4788]

I mean for me I think this is one of my favorite show because the ship is the main selling point, it's fun to have a cartoon focus mainly on romance. Avatar was a fanatasy epic with some romance on the side, TOA is a fun multiverse fantasy romp, Amphibia is frogs, Hilda is aesthetic, Dragon Prince is another fantasy epic. Most of the cartoons coming out these days aren't super focused on a ship, and sometimes I just want to enjoy some goofy romance that doesn't need to be taken too seriously while at the same time makes me want to rip my hair out :P

[@Rosemont104]

@@megana4788 Romance is nice, it's the Will-They-Won't-They that's not. The former is fun, the latter is tedious, melodramatic, and dragged out. This show would be truly fun if it were just about a battle couple flirting casually in a monster-of-the-week show. Tho the bland 3D puts me off and makes the affair seems too kiddy, regardless of intended demographic.

[@megana4788]

@@Rosemont104 Yeah, I'm ready for the "will they won't they" to be over as well, I think the reveal is gonna happen at the end of season 4 though (fingers crossed) so hopefully we'll get to see an actual relationship soon. I personally enjoy the 3D animation myself though (especially when SAMG is doing it), some of my favorite animated scenes are from this show, I really like all the colors too.

[@andynonymous6769]

@@Rosemont104 I think the 3D was actually a pretty good choice. I liked how it looked at least. I'm only in season 1, I heard in season 3 things get really stagnant, but for now I'm really enjoying the dumpster fire shipping dynamics. That's what I'm here for!

[@miss_chelles1338]

Oooo. This comment right here! Go off sis! or bro. 😂

[@francesscaena6822]

Honestly, thank you for also talking about Chat's problematic tendencies. Normally I only find anti LS videos where Marinette is the only one at fault bc she is a stalker ir she just can't confess etc. but Adrichat's problems are akways brushed over. Nice job👍🏼

[@SK_Youtube213]

Right, I believe that Marinette and Adrien are no better than each other when it comes to their crushes.

[@byronrush9802]

@@SK_KZbin213 hence why I'm in the date other people crowd

[@3ialhdb]

Yes I'm glad someone has acknowledged His problems as well

[@mg_makintosh]

Marinette is Chinese, not Japanese, Kagami is Japanese

[@magnus5747]

Isn't she just french?

[@mg_makintosh]

@@magnus5747 No, it's confirmed her mother is Chinese and her father is French

[@magnus5747]

@@mg_makintosh so she is french/chinese

[@jenniferagu6590]

@@magnus5747 French/Italian father and Chinese mother

[@wilsonweiseng6485]

@@magnus5747 her name is marinette dupain-cheng, it's pretty obvious she's half if not full chinese

[@energy_ninja]

At this point I'll be just fine with whatever Luka×Adrian and Marinette×Kagami interactions they're willing to give me. Honestly the boys and girls of the love hexagon should just pair off.

[@andynonymous6769]

Imagine if they were all ace :P

[@energy_ninja]

@@andynonymous6769 hmmm. On one hand the show wouldn't have the same appeal. On the other hand the worst elements (morally) of the show aren't there and there's room for the most compelling parts of the characters to be developed instead of squandered by over the top teen romcom hijinks. I like that idea.

[@andynonymous6769]

@@energy_ninja No, I mean keep everything the same but then have the last season just everyone having a big character arc into the realization that they're aro ace. And then pair up nobody. Can you imagine the chaos

[@cottonhare]

@@andynonymous6769 you mean aro?

[@PRISMSHOWERS_P]

I LOVE THEM BOTH AND MORE INDULGE INTO THE FORBIDDEN SHIPS!

[@jvever4904]

The will-they-won't-they with the Lovesquare has stayed long past it's welcome. It's dragged out. The creators are beating a dead horse. I could literally not give a single shit about these two getting together and only want to see more worldbuilding and the side characters getting more screen time, but they're given CRUMBS.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

It's also in a superposition of episodic and story driven when it sometimes follows a specific plot point (gabriel agrest and his wife) but sometimes it makes some plot changing reveals that don't amount to anything in the long run, in 2 different episodes they learn about each others identities and almost destroy the universe until a time manipulating entity reverts everything back to normal, luka learns about both of their identities but that is never brought up again, cat noir doesn't get to participate in a couple of missions and suddenly he gets into a depressive state and disowns black only to take him back so they can try to pretend to be someone else just so ladybug invites them to more missions, they figure out how to stop people from being akumatized only for hawk moth to figure a way around it by just doing what always does but harder, when they go to new York we learn that there might be more kuamis out there but the concept is never explored The show is pretty much has no stakes considering the fact that there is a time God always on the watch in case anything major happens, talisman always works, every time they defeat a villain everything goes back to normal so going back to the status quo is literal a superpower in the show Also the heroes are kinda repetitive, the only difference between capricorn and ladybug is that he can do it on command, the only difference between sars and bunny is that one is on command and kinda limited while the other is just complete control over the timeline

[@optimusprime-i5h]

More like Beating said Horse with another dead Horse.

[@JLacay]

To this day, I'm still upset that they canceled the anime ladybug because the animators couldn't animate all of Ladybug's spots. We could've gotten a more threatening Hawkmoth, proper character development, smooth animation, and an interesting storyline.

[@keaunceeclifton8044]

Actually the anime version wasn't that good and it clearly wouldn't have lasted that long they literally knew this

[@Quandale.dingle.here.]

@@keaunceeclifton8044 i mean… the anime would last because it had an interesting concept and even supposed to be targeted at an older audience which means it would be darker

[@tiagomonteiro130]

@@keaunceeclifton8044 No it would have been better a little example of what it would have done better is not making Marinette a Stalker and confess her feelings many times like in the concept there was a scene were she did it also it would have been much darker it was intendet for a teenage audience

[@adraabouji1937]

Not only because of Ladybug'spots, 3D animation is cheaper and easier,and none of the the comapnies they met wanted to broadcast their show,so they made it more kid friendly.

[@abrown767]

People idolize the PV version of Miraculous, but it would've been the same exact tropes as every anime ever, the cold guy and the over-excited girl, and PV-Marinette's constant confessions toward PV-Adrien(people call them Bridgette and Felix, but it was always Marinette and Adrien) are just as creepy as Chat's constant confessions towards Ladybug in the show. Adrienette has its faults in the show, but it's at least not the same annoying shit as the PV would've been as a full show.

[@geardog24]

You say Alya is the only sane woman on the show but that's only because she's not fangirling over Ladybug. It gets so bad that Hawk Moth uses her obsession to turn her into a villain, and at the end of the episode she still doesn't learn her lesson.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

Nah fam Alix is the only sane character left. She realised that Mari’s behaviour is creepy and she just wants to vibe. Plus as much as I don’t like Bunnyx’s existence in the show itself (for the fact that this show DOES NOT NEED TO PUT IN TIME TRAVEL), Bunnyx herself is a really entertaining character to watch. I love her personality, and I’m eagerly awaiting the day we get to see Teenage Bunnyx.

[@Helloknight]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios nino's sane too. granted, he's less sane than Alix, but he's still sane

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@@Helloknight True. And ofc we have the GOAT that is Mrs. Bustier. Aka one of the only sensible adults in this show. Along with Sabine.

[@celesteshearts]

I mean now she’s been looped into Marinette’s whole Ladybug thing (Gang of Secrets) Alix will (hopefully) forever remain the only one with a bit of sanity

[@daychild_]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios yesss Alix is my fav character tbh, finally a character who sees something wrong with mari’s stalking Seriously, I’m pretty sure a *firefighter* helped her break into adrien’s house. Sure, he tried to advise her that what she’s doing is weird and wrong, but he still gave in and helped her do it anyways. Im pretty sure no reasonable adult would ever do that

[@murderman7265]

I think we have found a love story that is indeed worse than Twilight 💀

[@randomcomment1286]

I fully believe that the love square is holding Miraculous back. Think about it, Adrien/Chat and Marinette/Ladybug are fine protagonists as their own people, but as soon as they delve into the love drama, they turn into jerks with little boundaries. This show has so many interesting concepts, like Gabriel's wife, to the lore, but they're all buried under the stupid love square, and are barely touched upon. I will admit, the love square is what drew me into the show in the first place, but now I hate it with a passion. At this point, I don't care which part of the love square is cannon, just get it over with, and focus on other elements of the show, please! P.S: Lukadrien for the win 👏

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

As a writer, I don’t think it’s so much the idea of the Love Square is a problem, it’s more so how they chose to execute it. In my opinion any idea is a valid one, unless executed in a poor manner. The Love Square... unfortunately suffers from this problem. I think this could’ve worked FAR better if they had Marinette and Chat fall for their respective crush over time, instead of right away. Then we at the very least have that basis of friendship there if one of the sides fall apart. No, in my most humblest opinion, the problem with Miraculous is its lack of focus. It doesn’t seem to know what it wants to be, so it tries to be everything at once. Romance, comedy, slice of life, superhero, drama, action... it creates a very extreme tonal inconsistency and this impacts the characters as well. I personally have no issues at all with the Love Square: as I said, it’s a solid idea, it just requires consistent writing to work. But I absolutely agree with your comment. This show is good at creating ideas, just terrible at following through with them. Especially with the other Miraculous. I still fail to see how anyone would be more interested in 15 one shot heroes who show up once per season- twice if the writers are feeling generous- than a permanent team of 5 Miraculous Holders, paving the way to interesting characters dynamics, development and fun team episodes if they insist on writing filler instead of writing the plot. But no. They have to keep this bland, repetitive and overall hindering status quo that S1 established. It’s so frustrating to me as a writer. It really is.

[@randomcomment1286]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios You're absolutely right. I guess, the love square isn't the problem, more like, what they're trying to do with it. I agree, that the love square is a good idea, but it requires a lot of focusing to make it work. Frankly, my problem with the love square, is that it's pretty much tarnishing the development between our protagonists. Again, Marinette and Adrien are more likable as individuals, but the huge focus on their love troubles, makes them very flat in character. Even in Season 4, it seems to be filled with Ladynoir drama, even though it could've been focused on Chat Noir's family drama and maybe make him slowly discover his father is Hawkmoth, instead we have episodes centered around Chat being a sad lackey to Ladybug, and being useless in battles. Of course, I am not blaming Chat for that, since Ladybug needs to communicate more with him.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@@randomcomment1286 Yeah I agree. Tbh as much as I love Alya getting a little bit of characterisation, I’m not a huge fan of how they’re making Chat the butt of the joke. It’s not really funny anymore: it’s sad.

[@randomcomment1286]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios Yeah, I mean, they're allowed to make him FEEL useless if it helps with his development, but don't make him actually useless, you know?

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@@randomcomment1286 Yeah I know. And I also have some issue with Marinette giving Alya her Miraculous full time despite Hawk Moth targeting her family, since that’s the same reason she took away the Bee Miraculous from Chloe. It’s a bit hypocritical, don’t you think?

[@punkprincess1226]

I’m glad to see someone (outside of tumblr) FINALLY calling out Adrien for his behavior. Marinette has problems, not denying that; but everyone shits on her if she so much as bats an eyelash wrong. Meanwhile, Adrien never gets called out for any of the shit he does, and the fans (as well as the writers) think he can do no wrong, they just love the pretty sad boy and think he’s perfect - he ain’t. “Lukanette for life”? Damn straight ✊

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

THANK YOU. I’ve been saying this for ages! The dude is entitled af. He throws hissy fits if “hIs LaDy” so much as LOOKS at someone else, and gives her the cold shoulder even though it’s well within her rights to not return his feelings. I find it rich how Astruc demonises Chloe for being entitled (which she is, not saying she’s a saint the girl needs a MAJOR reality check), and yet completely ignores the fact that Chat acts just as entitled- if not more so- towards Lb’s attention and affection. Marinette sure as hell ain’t perfect. But I wish the fandom would stop acting like Adrien is this perfect Angel when in reality he has some major jealousy issues.

[@3ialhdb]

The fact Adrien practical ly was going for another girl while dating was also looked over.

[@liamdalemon1525]

Chat, you may have been objectively cooler than your teammate but you are one shit superhero! Your motive is creeping on someone who is not interested in you, you keep dying over and over, YOU NEVER LEARN TO ACCEPT REJECTION, you never accomplish anything and not even your name is without fault as it's a rip off of a Spider-Man antagonist. Hell despite having the power of destruction and having combat training, your not even a better fighter than your teammate! "Oh I can't be Ladybug without Chat Nior-" OF COURSE YOU CAN MARIONETTE! AND YOU HAVE DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES!!! WHAT IS THIS WRITING?!?

[@salem_ness]

Lukanette for life! (And Marigami as second choice)

[@2wingo]

Calling it a love square doesn't really do it justice. The shipping in this show is more akin to the revolving door gag from "Scooby-Doo."

[@mr.lazyness4926]

*"Marichat - the best couple with the most issues"* Meanwhile, the fandom in their fanfiction:

[@MrZakiaashraf]

The fandom's fanfiction of the Love Square disgust me, at least most of it-

[@PickyVickyVindictive]

@@MrZakiaashraf Wow. I'm scared to hear what you saw.... I've seen some good ones.

[@MrZakiaashraf]

@PickyVicky4487 Vindictive I agree there are pretty good fanfictions, but some are just- ugh-

[@catchyname1081]

@@MrZakiaashraf I saw one that was about - and I kid you not - Adrien and *******Chat Noir******* Yes, the same person.

[@DD_4224]

@@catchyname1081 did he have a multiple personality disorder or how did that work

[@theomnimushroom5290]

Ah yes miraculous ladybug, the show where I watched the first five episodes of season 1 when I was a kid but then lost interest and stopped watching completely.

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

I stopped watching because it wasn't on a channel consistently. It went from Nick to Teen Nick to Netflix to Dinsey Channel

[@theomnimushroom5290]

@@doraeguyakaneddie6586 I watch the first five episodes on Nickelodeon but outside of that I have never once seen a full episode of this show

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

@@theomnimushroom5290 I wish they got Toei to animate it

[@infinitypercival5958]

I don't think I necessarily tried the first 5 episodes of season 1, but I definitely tried some episodes here and there, *kind of* liked it but got bored of it very quickly and dropped it. Fast forward a few years later and I wasn't surprised at all when I eventually came across some videos explaining how the show went to shit. 😆

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

Ah, an Invincible profile pic. I see you are a man of culture. Seriously tho I would gladly take Invincible over Miraculous any day. And this is coming from a fan of both shows.

[@menn9116]

In my opinion the best ship in the series is Juleka's house

[@MrZakiaashraf]

Stan this comment

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

The most underrated comment in this comments section.

[@Popgurliess]

nah it's julerose

[@LtBasil]

Well played, menn. Well played.

[@adraabouji1937]

LMAO I LOVE THIS

[@DefectoDepressoEspresso]

I got into this show through a friend, and this same friend was the type who'd openly dismiss criticism anyone would have about anything, and I initially shared her opinions regarding this particular series. Now that I can openly express my more critical opinions, everything about this series that doesn't end in me groaning "okay, but why?" at my computer was a product of the fandom, and their need to piece together the loose ends left by the show's writing. It's like Jem and the Holograms with extra steps.

[@beezlrompl]

@Caiden Leonard The love triangle issue is similar. Jem is the disguised singer persona used by Jerrica Benton. Jerrica Benton is dating Rio, who also starts canoodling with Jerrica's alter-ego Jem on the side (but he doesn't know it's his girlfriend). Meanwhile Jem also starts a side-relationship with another singer known as Riot from another band, and Rio and Riot will fight each other over Jem in public while its well known that Rio is publicly dating Jerrica... Actually I'd say Jem and the Holograms probably runs a bit deeper than Miraculous after outlining it like that.

[@beezlrompl]

@Caiden Leonard Mmhmm so we gonna pretend like the episode where she went missing for a week with Riot never happened? If you tell me that they were "just being friends" that whole time... The "just friends" line is something I never really believed bc her actions and words never matched. Also the Misfits song "Top Of The Charts" was due to her running off with Riot for months on end.

[@DefectoDepressoEspresso]

@Caiden Leonard Have you ever watched it? Jem gets so caught up with her love interest that she literally becomes jealous of herself over the fact that he's two-timing her and her alter-ego.

[@DefectoDepressoEspresso]

@Caiden Leonard My bad dude, didn't see your other replies. you only get notifications if peope @ you

[@DefectoDepressoEspresso]

@@beezlrompl My point exactly, though you put it way better than I could. You make a good point, they were way better at getting that point across.

[@lilymadkins3558]

To be fair to Ladynoir, LB does say "no" to a relationship with Chat (which he does respect) but I don't remember her saying "no" to his flirting, most of the times she just has problems with his timing. In one of the episode of season 4, it's actually revealed that she loves his jokes and sense of humour. In the season 3 finale, she even got jealous when he stopped flirting with her. When it comes to Ladynoir's dynamic, I always think its more friendly banter than romantic flirting because Chat Noir doesn't flirt with only Ladybug but with almost every female superhero. As long as Ladybug doesn't mind, I don't think it's that unhealthy to banter with your bestfriend. I get fans love Marichat a lot because of the amount of potential it holds but canon wise, Ladynoir is arguably the most complex and developed relationship in the entire show.

[@miss_chelles1338]

Aside from the whole "ladybug getting jealous" argument, I agree.

[@maggiebrave9354]

Agreed, I love Ladynoir and also, there have been moments where Ladybug flirted back. I'm sure she does have feelings for him but won't admit it cause she wants to stay loyal to her feelings for Adrien. Ladynoir is honestly my comfort ship

[@bigboy-mn9en]

Lb is heartless. "Oh No cHaT iSnT fLiRtInG wItH mE. Oh I dOnT wAnT iT nOw."

[@Idkidc2173]

Never? Ladybug in the episodes with Nadja Chamank as a super villain clearly said "no" to Kot several times. Honestly, I don't remember many other instances of SAYING "no", but needless to say, just show that you are not interested. Ladybug pushed Cat away as he made a lenny face over her in "Stormweather" (this scene was so suggestive ... One of the worst), took his hand off her shoulder ("Antibug"), or rebuked Chat when he indulged in a lot of. THE ENTIRE PLOT OF GLACIATOR WAS ABOUT THAT THE LADYBUG DOESN'T SEE A CHAT IN ROMANTIC CATEGORIES. But yes, at other times she acts like she love him too... Writing in this show sucks.

[@lilymadkins3558]

@@Idkidc2173 Didn't all Prime Queen, Antibug, Stormy Weather happen before Glaciator where Ladybug didn't even know Chat Noir had serious feelings for her?? I see these season 1&2 moments as Ladybug establishing her boundaries then being disinterested in Chat Noir's flirting. Imo, it's possible to establish not so close boundaries with your loved ones even when you're in love. Futher all of these moments you mentioned are from earlier seasons, I know Miraculous writing isn’t perfect but as the show progresses, it's kinda obvious to see that both Ladybug and Chat Noir clearly got more comfortable around each other. I'd like to say the difference is more due to character progression than inconsistency. But I agree with you. I usually have a hard time analysing Ladybug's feelings. Like if the entire plot of Glaciator is her not seeing Chat Noir in a romantic light then why did the episode end with Ladybug canoncaily blushing when Chat kissed her? And in Prime Queen, she got too mad at Nadja for calling her and Chat Noir a couple as it would send mixed messages to their fans (not blaming her btw, she has all the rights) but she also didn't mind flirting too obvious with him and calling him nicknames while they were literally in a middle of a national tv interview in the beginning of episodes. And even in Stormy Weather, their banter with him was fine in some places but felt like it crossed boundaries in others. Same for Antibug where she put her hands on Chat's shoulders and flicked his bell literally in the next scene she removed his hand from hers. Maybe inconsistent writing is the one to blame for all this. I honestly hope the show start giving us better hints when the Lovesquare were to happen for real.

[@lavenderpotato5734]

I believe that Chat and Marrinette is best ship cause they can actually talk without acting like complete idiots. Plus they can learn how to properly like each other like this instead of idolizing because “Omg he’s so cute!” And “Wow she’s so cool”

[@laraschroeder5195]

I also kinda see Chat and Marinette as their “real selves”. Adrien likes being Chat more then Adrien, Marinette is more comfortable as Marinette instead of Ladybug

[@Popgurliess]

​@@laraschroeder5195 the best couple is Sabine x tom though.

[@Chen-vw5nc]

I wonder what show did shipping worse. Star vs or Miraculous Ladybug

[@sladey6541]

Ofc u hate the shows with straight ships. :/

[@taylorboney1089]

@@sladey6541 I doubt it has to do with the ships being straight, but the poor way they handled the ships in both shows.

[@Goovdluck687]

@@sladey6541 it has nothing to do with straight ships. And stop assuming you know why people hate something. It's because most of the ships are unhealthy in an alarming level.

[@Chen-vw5nc]

@@sladey6541 bruh, I hate bad writing

[@jaycrews3707]

@@sladey6541 says the hompphobic

[@EditDeath]

If you think the shipping is sadistic, you should look at Adrien's arc right now. No idea what to do with his life, ticked and jealous any time Ladybug gets someone else's help (to the point of destroying public property), and punished by villain dad for having an opinion. At this point, I'm genuinely wondering if the writers are setting the kid up to become a villain!

[@chloefarrah8598]

i have never hated a show’s plot more in my entire life. i feel pain every time i see marrinette try to talk to adrien and when ladybug rejects cat noir. every time marrinette stutters or falls in front of adrien is another piece of my soul that slowly breaks away. every time adrien says marrinette is just a friend is another time i want to bash my head into a brick wall. and yet, i still watch the show.

[@RKNancy]

The worst part? The show writer is a male feminist and refuses to take criticism by calling everyone indirectly sexist. Why do you think we ended up with a stalker Marinette? Male feminists are often secret female simps who think they know how women work, when they’ve completely gotten the wrong idea.

[@quietopinion9637]

While also making it seem like the male character is perfect with no flaws

[@sffb8295]

He's not a real feminist, then. He's just someone who hides behind feminism to excuse his shitty actions and reasoning.

[@areeba7045]

he's not a feminist,,, stop blaming everything on feminism wtf

[@namesaretoohardsoiwontmake6870]

those are called femanazis I think? I've been calling them that

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

@@namesaretoohardsoiwontmake6870 Misandrist works better in my opinion I agree with the comment for the most part but it feels way too much of an "semi incel into men's rights" vibe

[@jessicaable5095]

This show is such a drain on my soul but I love it. Gonna get unnecessarily serious for this comments section 😅 I'm a Marchat stan. Reason being, if it was any other couple, they wouldn't necessarily be learning to love the entirity of the other. We've established that Chat loves Ladybug and Marinette loves Adrien. If either of them get into a relationship with the person they initially like that would (one) show them that their creepy behavior somehow paid off and (two) wouldn't give them a chance to appreciate the other in a new light. Marchat basically gives them a chance to love the rest of their partner and an identity reveal after that would be way more satisfying. In Chat Blanc, Adrien only decided to date Marinette because he knew she was Ladybug. He never saw her as anything but a friend before that, that's why I wasn't actually interested.

[@twilight3272]

THANK YOU, SOMEONE ELSE GETS IT!

[@lilymadkins3558]

In Chat Blanc, didn't Adrien literally say he has always seen Marinette as more than just a friend? One of the official ambassadors of the show even confirmed that Adrien always had feelings for Marinette but was just blinded by his love for Ladybug. Which was the whole point of Adrien wanting to date Marinette (his everyday Ladybug) after realising that she's Ladybug in Chat Blanc

[@jessicaable5095]

@@lilymadkins3558 well I must've missed the ambassador's comment because through the show he's been so utterly clueless around her. I'd love it if we actually got to see a little crush developing, and for mari to start liking Chat Noir a little in that way too. It just doesn't come across that way. My prefurd ship could easily change if that happened. It should be at a point where I desperately want them to know each other's identities and get together but right now it would feel disingenuous. At least for me. The pair need to establish some kind of romantic attraction to the other's secret side for me to get invested. But this kinda thing is relative. You do you 😊

[@twilight3272]

@@lilymadkins3558 Even if he's "always had feelings for her" his feelings for Ladybug trumped those always. He needs to learn to grow past that. At that point, he would have never actually _considered_ Mari if he didn't find out her identity.

[@lilymadkins3558]

@@twilight3272 Which was the whole point? Both Adrien and Ladybug are blinded by their feeling for each other to even consider other people. So when he learnt that the girl he tries so hard to hide his feelings for and the girl he already is in love with are the same person, he dated her, I don't find anything wrong with that. OP said he never saw Marinette as more than a friend before that, which is directly contradictory to Adrien's confession in the episode itself.

[@davidkonevky7372]

This is one of those shows were I just WISH we could get a remake in the near future, I want this whole universe to start from a blank slate. The pieces are all there to make a GREAT show, but the writers are goddamn awful and don't know how to actually make convincing relationships, likeable characters, and actually interesting lore. It'd be even better if we could do it in a 2d anime style like how it was originally supposed to be. It's so frustrating when a good concept gets executed horribly and you can do nothing about it.

[@BlackCroft666]

I actually would say give it to japan. I have no faith in western studios.

[@greenjustin8999]

@@BlackCroft666 if given to japan it will fell a little sailor moon and precure which i haven't watch so i don't know if good or bad . Also the reason i said that because toei animation probably the one who will animate this since they animate the pv one but i think it will be better than now .

[@Meimoons]

@@BlackCroft666 I don’t think Japanese studios would handle it with the same maturity that you would hope for.

[@KavinCatastrophe]

I try to tell People Marrinette kind of show signs of a Stalker but then people just Attack me and say she Young, she doesn't know how to handle love. I appreciate Marrinette for her Flaws but when the Fandom Straight up ignores it and Makes Excuses for it. It just Sad Thomas get your Character together.

[@SophieMoa]

true :(

[@miss_chelles1338]

Ikr...

[@renoirrr]

i found a similar situation but with adrien. it makes sense that he is so oblivious to marinette because he never knew what love is cause he grew up with an abusive father, but nooo "he's blinder than kagami's mom" is all i see. also that his chat noir self is better- of course it's better because he finally gets to be who he is! like he's suffocated when he isn't chat noir because he's no longer adrien who is suffocated by almost everyone in his life. he's free to be who his real self. its just frustrating cause he's one of the last couple characters that i actually respect in this show with decent character writing

[@midaricks1494]

Dude I'm 15 and I know its wrong. This behavior has NO excuse and neither are the directors

[@synkieagda7620]

She's young = she can learn that this behavior is not ok. Same with Chat. No = no. No = Dude, She's just not into you. Gotta move on.

[@paradoxbees3280]

You joke but imagine if LukAdrian was actually made canon

[@sladey6541]

Wtf

[@milktoast633]

I mean- it’s healthier than all the other ships in this show lol

[@Pumpkin_3890]

@@sladey6541 ofc you're homophobic

[@thiscat567]

@@Pumpkin_3890 he just said wtf? How is that homophobic? He can have an opinion to you know (personally I’m not adrien x luka Stan so)

[@Pumpkin_3890]

@@thiscat567 they've been posting under other comments, and it's obvious they're homophobic

[@magenta_mer-goat86]

I hate how simultaneously well and terribly this video aged!

[@Mr.WestcottX]

For real. With ladybug and cat noir shipping so slow

[@cyberneticsilver1754]

This is why I only pay attention to the goth x pastel sapphics in the background

[@celesteshearts]

exactly the reason why i still watch the show also the comic book nerds

[@WyvernLostThePlot]

Exactly

[@alyssabullock6421]

i cant believe we were robbed of what could've been a MUCH better series that the anime concept was

[@sslord3899]

not really their relationship was waaaay creepier Adrien was way older than Marinett and Marinett fallowed Adrien everywhere relentlessly that he was running away from her. am happy it didn't happen like yayks

[@Quandale.dingle.here.]

@@sslord3899 what? It’s way better imo cuz marinette isn’t a creepy stalker and is brave enough to confess her feelings for him and felix ( the original adrian ) was way more interesting cuz he isn’t some gullible guy like adrian and actually knew marinette loves him and even in the original concept felix is forced to be chat noir because of a curse of bad luck and he can only breaks that curse by a kiss from ladybug

[@CalliopePony]

@@Quandale.dingle.here. That bit about the kiss is what makes it so much worse. Adrien pursues Ladybug because he has a genuine crush on her. Originial concept Felix pursues Ladybug in order to gain a sexual favor for his own benefit.

[@adraabouji1937]

@@sslord3899 uhh they were the same age

[@harmonysaavedra8409]

I get that marinette's behavior is problematic, but it really bothers me how fans rarely if ever talk about adrian's problematic behavior in the same way. Even now in the comment section, all people can talk about is marinette and her stalking. You said it best: adrien is a pretty white boy with problems so the fans excuse it or dont even notice it.

[@marinettedupaincheng7616]

I agree 100%

[@tracey5324]

I believe it stems from an issue with female consent. Plenty of families/cultures/friend groups still perpetuate this idea that if a guy tries really hard that the girl 'owes' him their attention, regardless of her own feelings. In the show, Ladybug's best friend (Chat), all of paris, international media and even the villain are TELLING her she WILL be with him, not ASKING her. In essence they have removed her own consent to her emotions (and if she were a few years older it would also imply her consent to her body). Plus the audience knows they are the same person and lets that colour their opinions- when to Marinette this is a stranger at least and her best friend at worst. Both worrying levels of forced attention in their own way.

[@shaelynmartin1996]

@@tracey5324 I'd argue that Chat isn't as bad with the flirting as everyone likes to claim. Part of his personality is "flirty." It's okay to flirt. Doesn't mean you think anything is going to come of it if you flirt enough times. Flirting is fun. And that is pretty decently reflected in the show. Ladybug never tells Chat to stop flirting with her, just get his mind on mission. The one episode where he actually took his shot with Ladybug and was turned down, he respected her wishes. You can see that flirty is his personality in the episodes where he interacts with Marinette. He flirts with her too, even though he isn't trying to date her. It's just the way Chat Noir interacts with people. Any time Ladybug has actually told Chat "Hey, stop flirting right now" he listens and chills out. He never takes it too far. Personally, I don't think there's anything to be fixed with Chat Noir's flirting. It's who he is. Does he need a strong girl like Marinette who can smirk and eye-roll at his antics before shutting him down to get his head in the game? Absolutely. But that doesn't make his flirting bad. And Ladybug flirts back enough that it's clear it doesn't make her uncomfortable. -- Now, if it was clear that Ladybug hated his flirting, it made her uncomfortable, and she was constantly telling him to stop because of that and he didn't? Yeah, then it'd definitely be problematic. But as it stands, it's not. Another comment I saw said she actually claims to enjoy his flirting and is upset in S4 when he stops flirting with her (I stopped watching after S3, so consider that one hear-say, but the above point still stands.). Yes, Adrien himself has a lot of problems. And no one is arguing against that. But it's not a consent issue. And I'm not sure why you're bringing consent to her body into the mix because that has zero basis in the show. No one is telling Marinette that she needs to be with Chat because he's "such a nice guy." People in the show ask if they're together because they're always seen together and they're really close. Ladybug will answer "We're just good friends" and Chat will joke "But we could be more." Ladybug will smirk, shake her head, and roll her eyes before moving on.

[@Doomzdeh]

Probably because, even though Chat Noir does seem to make Ladybug uncomfortable with his inability to take “no” for a permanent answer and his penchant for throwing fits occasionally in the middle of akuma attacks because of it, he has never gone to the level of making a shrine to Ladybug in his room and probably wouldn’t sniff Ladybug’s pillow. From what we’ve seen of Chat Noir, even though he badly wants to know who Ladybug is and maybe is annoyingly pushy, he respects Ladybug’s boundaries for the most part, and has walked away when given chances to figure out who she is. Similarly, he actually has a working friendship and dynamic with Ladybug that shows his feelings aren’t completely idealization and obsession. On the other hand, Marinette stalks Adrien, stole his phone once, broke into his house more than once, and can never get more than two sentences out when talking to him in most episodes. Chat Noir might be problematic, but Marinette is actively obsessive and creepy. Chat Noir’s behavior can be understood by an average person and merely requires tweaking. Marinette’s behavior should end in a restraining order or a trial.

[@mono8476]

what does being white hv to do with it??

[@_developing-arc_9250]

Ladrien is such a fever dream lmaoo like the shit she does for Adrien as ladybug is INSANE Yall remember when she beat up Santa Claus cause she thought he was an akuma when he was literally just your average civilian😭😭😭

[@MrZakiaashraf]

IKR 😭😭😭

[@Liketaknoww]

One thing I will say about Marinette x Chat is that the same thing that makes LadyChat appealing, the fact that they trust each other to have each other's back and have that good back and forth banter, is what makes it appealing on Marinette's side, and the same thing that makes Adrinette appealing, Adrien coming to realize that the cool girl in his class is actually really smart and competent and cool and not just another person in his highschool, makes it appealing on Adrien's side. Neither of them see the other on any kind of pedestal in MariChat, it's just two dumb teens enjoying each other's company and growing into something more. So I don't see it as "Nobody's happy/nobody gets what they want," as much as "can y'all calm down and like each other like normal people for a second here?" XD

[@FurryfiedArts]

The “Theory that he was made by magic” Aged SOOOOOO well 😂

[@KOdden3]

The best part of this show for me is how they never reveal the name of Marionette’s dream hamster

[@MrZakiaashraf]

Literally 😂

[@b.h.4249]

God, I loved this video so much. I agree with every single statement made and I would love to see more sarcastic videos aimed at this show, it's so much fun to to take shots at it.

[@ansonsauersauer3095]

Ever since I found out that Cristina Vee voices both Marinette and Verosika Mayday, it's really hard for me to not imagine Verosika acting like a squeeing teenage girl in private.

[@SapphireLeya]

Imagine both of them meeting

[@negargeliyerdi3766]

It's a disaster but we love it anyway

[@by-iris3680]

Love is a strong word..

[@joonbee]

we?? 😂

[@fatherpucci8170]

@@by-iris3680 or love is bizarre thing we can't understand

[@xempororhxppyx]

I hate that show so much so-

[@Bella_640]

Yeah, this show is a disaster, but it became my comfort show. When I had depression when I was little kid Miraculous was one of the only things that cheered me up so I have a special love for it, it's sad to see the story being spoiled like this :/

[@SuperEasywalker]

In my defense, I like the show for the superheroes/villain battle, yet there are interesting stories on the side like Rose and Juleka whole dynamics as best friend(queer coded relationship/ship for me) given in the “Guiltrip”; Ivan and Mylene also Alya and Nino is surprisingly sweet.

[@twylenb]

I used to ship the square quite a bit, and during the early seasons, hoped that Gabriel would be more of a tragic dad distracted by his trauma who would eventually be a loving father and realize his shitty behaviour, but here we are. I don't really care about the love square. I never noticed the stalkery behavior being problematic until now after I've become after watching all of the subbed stuff until now. At this point, the reason I'll see the series through is to hope for Gabriel to realize the shit he's been doing, and realizing he done fucked up. I just want Adrien to get therapy and get into a more healthy situation. As a person myself with childhood trauma, I think he needs to find a better living situation and get therapy. Gabriel's toxic af. Like.... Adrien's childhood dream is to follow what his parent want for him? That super fucked up. That's obviously trauma and manipulation not recognizing Adrien as his own entity, and only as an object to better Gabriel's company. It was shitty that other people in that episode were dismissing his trauma by saying "You'll remember!". Not that the others would know how abused Adrien is. From his perspective, it's just so bad! Not having people take you seriously, including your friends. TLDR: I don't give a fuck about the love square. Get Adrien Therapy!!

[@zemox2534]

The shipping in this series is worse than the shipping in Star Vs. Seriously the obsession Ladybug has for Adrian is just disgusting and yet the series throws logic out the window to try and justify the stalker getting together with her crush. Yes Marrionette is a bloody Stalker and needs to be called out on it.

[@keaunceeclifton8044]

Nah the shipping in star vs was far worse I swear star vs the forces of evil is the prime example of what happens when shipping goes too far

[@karencoon6243]

So basically this show is shipping chaos, which we already knew. And that Tomco definitely should've been a thing! XD

[@pkphantom]

My favorite thing about this is that he rips into the series so badly, but also says just enough good(?) things at the same time, leaving me completely confused as to whether or not he likes the series or not. It leaves you in a weird place where you legit have to watch the damn thing yourself and draw your own conclusions, and that's something I can respect 😁

[@magenta_mer-goat86]

Welcome to the Miraculous Ladybug fandom!

[@strelitziamystery21]

When I first saw Luka and Kagami I didn't care because the show makes it very obvious that Adriette will happen and these guys are just obstacles. But now I'm a older, wiser and bitter fan and I like Luka and Kagami way more when I don't think about how the main point of them existing is to cause shipping drama.

[@thatson_nameste998]

They simply exist as useless love interest for Marinette and Adrien 😑😑

[@Valorian6167]

Dude I love this show so much and love season 4. I love that Marinette can lean on alya now and I love the ticking time bomb rising from Luca knowing about ladybug and chat but still keeping it to himself. God help this city if Luca ever gets akumatized again knowing what he knows now

[@miss_chelles1338]

Oh god... yes! 😂

[@scoutsleftnut13]

It was so hard to watch this show when you're a fan of shipping in general. I remember it frustrating me and i had to stop watching the show for good, i think the only ship that I liked the whole way through was Rose and Juleka

[@quaxlyquixote4003]

At least Rose and Juleka are canon though

[@sma2840]

Same I love Rose and Juleka and Mark and Nathaniel

[@thecrusaderking4835]

I stopped caring about canon beyond new characters after season 3 finale.

[@Kayclau]

Luka deserves way better than a girl that clearly doesn't care about him. No, I'm not being gay for Luka! You are! Damiannette for life! Or maybe Alynette!

[@pabloa8102]

I mean, I am being gay for Luka, but you’re very much also being gay for Luka

[@sxatcychan1988]

Marinette x psychotherapy

[@λολ-β3β]

@@sxatcychan1988 fax

[@idknamesarehard7119]

Where did Damienette come from? I’ve been a part of the Batman fandom for while, and suddenly Miraculous has been showing up with increasing frequency in the tags I browse on AO3. How did this happen?

[@Kayclau]

@@idknamesarehard7119 that's a mystery not even the world's greatest detective can solve. And, as you might've guesses by my username and my comment, I'm not complaining.

[@maxordman4100]

Marionette and Luka definitely do deserve more love and once again you have proven that your analysis of the show and its story and characters is a a lot of fun and a good distraction from some of the other stuff on KZbin that I just don’t want to watch all the time. Keep up the great work and keep on being you and I respect your opinion even though I will admit that I have occasionally looked at some fanfics about a couple different story twists with the four main ships.

[@lemmyadam725]

Reminds me of how the author of Jitsu wa Watashi wa had a point where they decided that continuing to keep the main couple from getting together seemed cruel. Letting the characters get together actually opened the story up further.

[@tyrant-den884]

Looking forward to SvstFoE season 4. TOMKO FOR LIFE!

[@crowleeisonfire]

I UNIRONICALLY ship those 2 and I don't even know why. Probably because starco even tho it could've been cute just felt forced with how things happened

[@sladey6541]

No never.

[@thegayghost872]

Finally, someone with taste

[@MAndSquared]

I only ever watched the first season of Star Vs back before season 2 aired and I remember shipping Tomco when Tom was introduced. A previous episode had already shown Marco to be great at calming someone angry down, so in my mind under different circumstances it could be a really adorable ship. I never watched beyond the first season, but I was filled in on the Tom and Marco episode and I felt so vindicated when I was shown a clip of the “now they’re going to jail scene”. The love song duet sweetened the deal but I never watched anymore as I just knew they were going to make Starco a thing

[@kingnickg4268]

Season 3 and 4 made me hate starco. Star was bad to tom (not counting the fixing monster/mewni relationship) and for some reason marco and kelly had their thing before being cut off screen in a hand wave mention.

[@xitsukiix]

4:53 WHY!? I HAD SUCCESSFULLY ERASED THAT SCENE FROM MY MEMORY!!

[@theelitebrawlersbakuganleg4224]

Damn I love this show in all its distinction chaos that some how manages to kick ass Been with it for all four seasons and I don't plan on dropping it

[@EmilyTheOtakuofficial]

It's the trash fire you can't look away from.

[@bugsquashinghero891]

The room likes to say hi But seriously if you like something that doesn't mean it's good there's a lot of terrible movies and shows that people say they enjoyed

[@jaycrews3707]

@@EmilyTheOtakuofficial pretty much

[@SARADAISNOTUCHIHA]

I was the same way with the walking dead👀💀😎

[@NektisNoir]

"A French-Japanese Power Ranger" Uhhhhhhh anyone gonna tell my boi that Marinette is French-Chinese, actually? I mean... we literally had an episode dedicated to her Chinese chef uncle AND a whole special recently where she visited her uncle in Shanghai and learned more about her mother's Chinese heritage 😬

[@SARADAISNOTUCHIHA]

Yeah kagami is the french japanese power ranger 😂😂

[@Idkidc2173]

The show wants to have an Asian representation, but it does it in such an exaggerated way that you keep forgetting where Marinette is actually from. Because she has no connection with her culture at all, and not everyone remembers boring episodes about her family (let's be honest, Kung Food was a terribly weak representation of China, Villaan's outfit is like stereotypes of people who have no idea about Asia)

[@PickyVickyVindictive]

@@Idkidc2173 Boring or not you don't forget that she's literally Chinese. They say it multiple times. How do you forget where she's from? Like you could just say you keep mixing up Japanese and Chinese. Lol

[@Purplefox_Chili]

The "superhero love square" image is breaking my brain because I'm pretty sure the pictures are switched

[@lussterpurge]

**IS FIRST** AND NGL MLB IS SUCH A SHIPPING HELL EVERYONES SO TOXIC

[@joonbee]

lukadrien & kagaminette > literally any other ship

[@littlesparrow303]

For me for a f/f ship it would be Feinette

[@polariized]

My favourite ship is julerose lol

[@ririchi6062]

no no, you have a point

[@kylebroflovski5883]

marinette and therapy is a better ship

[@kkkumofie]

lukadrien just seems like such a peaceful ship

[@loveflamingos721]

I used to watch this show often until it got to the point where they teased us for an identity reveal. The love square I could deal with (sort of), but the breaking point was when they would repeatedly have them reveal their identities and then go back in time/ wipe their memories and then it would be back to the same again. Like there's no plot progression. At all. Sometimes I watch Oblivio (the memory one where they meet each other for the first time) and it's how the show is supposed to be. These two got chemistry, but its frustrated by the stagnant plot and miscommunication from the love square. And then, of course, they have to wipe their memories at the end of that one too.

[@playererror4044]

Best ship in this show is Julerose, I get more enjoyment out of watching them then I do the romance the show's actually based around (also Kogami net is a fav even if it wont ever happen)

[@noname3070]

“His mom being a popsicle in the basement.” I can’t stop laughing. I am CRYING! Hahahah

[@Fire-Fox007]

😂🤣

[@roflcopter_launchpad1116]

MariChat Gang Represent! Also, yeah- if you're gonna spend 90+% of the show telling me why the two leads _aren't_ together, chances are I'm just gonna default to the contrarian crack ships instead.

[@the13thgoogler]

You think the love square is weird? I've seen Marrinette x Ladybug and Cat Noir x Adrien. Plus the two other alterego's they used for only one episode, Multimouse and Aspik, are also part of said shipping mess, though to a lesser extent. This show doesn't have a goddamn love square, it has a freaking Love Dodecahedron and I love it!

[@Hanmacx]

There was Marinette as Cat Noir too xD

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@@Hanmacx Ah yes. Mr. Bug and Lady Noire. Yet another pair to add to the messy chimera that has become the Love Hyperdodecahedron.

[@c.julietofcampjupiter8557]

@The 13th Googler Ah yes, Pitch Pearl

[@Hanmacx]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios good thing there wasn't a rule63 version of Adrian yet xD

[@miss_chelles1338]

@@Hanmacx wait...... what's that? Don't tell me it's like R34.

[@nziom]

It's the guilty pleasure of fanfic lovers

[@Arella17]

I mean why be guilty about taking a dumpster fire and actually making it enjoyable and well written, even the cringy fics are better written than the canon.

[@mikeclarke5732]

9:19 Probably stalking someone, following them around, smelling their hair, and stealing and sniffing their belongings but it's okay because she only needs “a talking to”

[@ptx3436]

You can’t deny man, even with the love disasters waiting to happen it’s still such a blast to watch

[@zucchini3857]

It really is and I dont know why

[@SnuubScadoob]

@@zucchini3857 It's because we're in "The Room" territory at this point. We know it's bad, but the writers think they're writing goddamn Lord of the Rings level epics and the ensuing train wreck is just too damn engrossing.