Did War Archers Curve Arrows?

[@tjj4lab]

“Did war archers curve arrows?” 100% yes, after much research I’ve finally discovered their long lost secret, they used the little know power of “gravity”. Using this ancient power it was possible to hit a man hiding behind a wall.

[@NUSensei]

Wrong. Gravity was only found in 1687 during the Scientific Revolution, long after the age of bows in warfare. Arrows before this time could not have been affected by gravity.

[@tjj4lab]

NUSensei hands down, this is the best archery channel on KZbin.

[@kaoticmind09]

I hear arrows would just shoot off into the universe if they missed their target.

[@jacobacon3219]

Lukasz Filipek Some say there are still arrows traveling towards the outer limits of the galaxy.

[@thetnuggz7521]

@@NUSensei Wrong. Gravity was Discovered in 1669 by Richard A. Gravite when he tried to sit down twice at the same time.

[@Kralledd]

"Its POINTLESS, it's LITERALLY Pointless" damn, that cracked me up :D

[@1CT1]

John 3:16 King James Version 16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."(share the good news of the gospel around the world!) islamic truth channels: christian prince, light for all nations, light shineth in darkness Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. www.gotquestions.org/ask-and-you-shall-receive.html John 9:31 King James Bible Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:32 King James Version (KJV) 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Philippians 4:8 King James Version 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. ,.,..,.,

[@Kralledd]

@@1CT1 wtf?

[@samuelpatacas7751]

This just show that people in ancient times tried all sort of things to improve existing techniques, but not all were worth it in the end, this one, at least, had entertaining value.

[@1CT1]

John 3:16 King James Version 16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."(share the good news of the gospel around the world!) islamic truth channels: christian prince, light for all nations, light shineth in darkness Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. www.gotquestions.org/ask-and-you-shall-receive.html John 9:31 King James Bible Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:32 King James Version (KJV) 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Philippians 4:8 King James Version 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. ,.,..,.,

[@decab8292]

Personally I have no doubt that “trick shots” were a thing many ancient Archers could do to show off. But in the heat of battle I don’t personally think anyone would have time to perform any “trick shots”. Just my opinion of course.

[@knohtfaique7575]

can you imagine a shield wall forming and then all the archers did the "returning" arrow trick.

[@naysaynetwork5271]

@@knohtfaique7575 the issue is it wouldnt make sense in that situation. The arrow curves at closer ranges, it wouldnt curve far enough to curve around shields from a distance. This is more likely to have been used “if it was used” for enemies directly around the corner or those who maybe had hostages.

[@michaelt6413]

I curve arrows all the time. When I don't do my mental form checks and don't realize I'm off. Normally my curved shots include curses and walking through grass in a grid pattern

[@arrowflinger3798]

I thought I was the only one skilled enough to do that

[@douglassmith3941]

Yeah... Me too....🙄

[@1CT1]

John 3:16 King James Version 16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."(share the good news of the gospel around the world!) islamic truth channels: christian prince, light for all nations, light shineth in darkness Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. www.gotquestions.org/ask-and-you-shall-receive.html John 9:31 King James Bible Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:32 King James Version (KJV) 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Philippians 4:8 King James Version 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. ,.,..,.,

[@atroniac5703]

I'm just a dnd guy here to see how much I would need to argue with my dm to allow me to do this.

[@1CT1]

John 3:16 King James Version 16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."(share the good news of the gospel around the world!) islamic truth channels: christian prince, light for all nations, light shineth in darkness Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. www.gotquestions.org/ask-and-you-shall-receive.html John 9:31 King James Bible Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:32 King James Version (KJV) 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Philippians 4:8 King James Version 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. ,.,..,.,

[@harrylane4]

@@vytasffbismarck7001 satan 666

[@LivWildStyle]

This video is lit. I very much appreciate your commitment to the art. Thank You.

[@nair.127]

So you are saying Mel Brooks made up the patriot arrow that flew under the viewing stands twice and hit the bullseye from behind the butt. I am stunned Mel would do this to us. Next thing you are going to tell me. Men didn't wear tights in Sherwood forest.

[@jyuan1999]

yo, my favourite movie

[@1CT1]

John 3:16 King James Version 16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."(share the good news of the gospel around the world!) islamic truth channels: christian prince, light for all nations, light shineth in darkness Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. www.gotquestions.org/ask-and-you-shall-receive.html John 9:31 King James Bible Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:32 King James Version (KJV) 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Philippians 4:8 King James Version 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. ,.,..,.,

[@jkre]

1 reason why archers would awoid using these fancy techniques is the "memory" of old bow material, in both wood and horn composite bows. If you bent them uneavenly they will take wrong tiller and could easily ruin your bow. With wooden selfbows possibly eaven exploding it. Bows made from natural materials are good when used correctly, but with incorrect use they will break quite easily. Modern bows with fiber glass reinforcement are much much more durable and resist that sort of improper use of the bow, but they can break allso, so don't try it if you dont wanna risk your bow breaking. And never try it with natural material bows, it will very likely be ruined.

[@levlev.1028]

I never realized how lit NUSensei's comments sections are

[@ernststravoblofeld]

I get a district curve, sometimes a spiral, when my bow arm gets tired.

[@babyfactory587]

Wow great job (;

[@1CT1]

John 3:16 King James Version 16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."(share the good news of the gospel around the world!) islamic truth channels: christian prince, light for all nations, light shineth in darkness Matthew 7:7-8 King James Version 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. www.gotquestions.org/ask-and-you-shall-receive.html John 9:31 King James Bible Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:32 King James Version (KJV) 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Philippians 4:8 King James Version 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. ,.,..,.,

[@twintwo1429]

When we were children, we put different shaped tips on our arrows for fun. Some arrows would fly in a specific direction or loop around, similar to a boomerang, but quite slow.

[@Waltham1892]

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH NUsensei?

[@feralgrandad4429]

Great video David. I'm not a great Archer or an archery historian. But I do archery an am ex soldier an I can tell you this, a front line, combat archer would in my humble opinion waste zero time using this technique in battle. He going to practice solid, dependable, proven techniques he knows works and nothing else. Now, an archer, on the target field, in not danger from an enemy might well practice these shot to impress the spectators I reckon. And, he might well stretch the truth and SAY he'd used it in combat to impress a lady. But in a down and dirty, life and death situation? Not a chance in hell.

[@NUSensei]

I agree with you. Even a modern soldier is not going to pull off tricks and stunts in the middle of combat. The stuff that might be fun to show off during an ammo burn won't play out in the same way you see in video games, and the principle of combat is the same: don't do things that will get you killed. It's unimaginable to see an archer actually do flips and somersaults off walls while speed-shooting like a ninja-commando in CQC when all it takes is a single arrow, or a single blow, aimed or not, to bring him down.

[@riccardoorlando2262]

If you come back from war to say you used curved shots, you didn't use curved shots.

[@anonymousshawn9996]

NUSensei I could see it happen in very specific scenarios. Like, the opposing commander is behind shield-hands. So to stunt the opfor, an archer might use these shots to get at the leader. Other than that, not much use for the shot, other than afore-mentioned reason.

[@NUSensei]

You have a single archer, who happens to be no more than ten metres away from someone who he has never met, yet somehow knows is the commander of the opposing army, who happens to be behind bodyguards with shields that are positioned just in the right way for the archer to bend an arrow around. And no one is doing anything to react to this. So...when did this happen outside of the movie "War of the Arrows"? You can't just invent a scenario to force a technique to work and then say that it would've been useful. Warriors don't train for coincidences. This is the same as people who claim that even a weak arrow can kill if it hit someone in the eye. The operative word being *if*. I could kill you with a banana peel, if you stepped on the banana peel while also happening to be standing on the edge of a cliff.

[@anonymousshawn9996]

NUSensei All I'm saying is, given the right circumstances, the stars aligned just right, and the archer has the blessing of the Gods, it COULD happen. Now the odds of that happening are another thing altogether. We all know it would Never happen on the field; but still, it's fun to think of all the possibilities And "what if" scenarios. Just for mental stimulation. Speaking of movies, What are your favorite archer shots in movies? Mine is the trick shots in "House of Flying Daggers."

[@medievalswordandshield-bil5631]

When I shoot on my thumb side I can't seem to stop the arrows from curving... How do you shoot straight off your thumb?

[@TruthBeliever5557]

Can you put a link to where I can buy the bow please? Thanks ❤

[@tuclen-itsmeanttobeangry4383]

Curving arrow may not a direct kill but a distracted support. I have tried this in a 2v2 with my instructor and others after introduced them about curving arrow. Turn out it a good thing to support teamates in small group fight, but not in large battle area. Even though it not deal much dmg, but if you aim for the eyes, use some poison, it become very good.

[@tomasraniak4584]

Hi NU,I found ur videos very useful,what's the name and manufacturer of the bow in the title picture of this video? Or by what name could I find that tipe?

[@uznnal]

Yes... The energy after the arrow curves are diminished, but it can still be viable if it can scratch. Didn't the horseback archers of Mongolia popularized poisoned arrows by dipping them in manure and other contaminates before firing? It won't kill immediately but for long drawn out sieges, it will sap the enemies moral and waste their manpower/resources just to tend to the sick whom ultimately dies.

[@NUSensei]

Yes, and the Mongols threw carcasses of dead horses into enemy defenses to do that, not curve arrows around and over walls exactly 1.3 metres away.

[@LegendaryStory]

How much power is lost when you curve an arrow? compared to shooting straight? how does it vary across distances?

[@AyoJoProductions]

Was wondering your opinion on the Martin panther recurve bow am new to archery interested in getting into hunting what's your advise on a new hunting bow that can stick with me even once I am a improved archer not to expensive possibly around 200$ mark

[@neilmichaelgalit5365]

About the returning arrow, obviously looks like it won't be useful in battle due to not having a sharp point. But the curve shot, I think someone hiding behind a tree could do that coz you said the curve is just initial then the arrow will return to its correct flight path.

[@b4bluey]

Bloody good mate !! explained really well !! >> Thank You !!

[@The_Gallowglass]

Most archers were in formation using volley fire. There wouldn't be a need to curve the arrow other than the natural arc of going up and coming down on the enemy.

[@imkcortez7156]

No demonstration?

[@cristianvaldez-ramirez3618]

Hello NUSensei, love the channel. I was wondering if you had some input on good reaistance band brands for pracrice/warm up purposes. Also you wear your fcial hair well :)

[@equesdeventusoccasus]

Different scenario, but related. The curved arrow shot physics you described means that there should be no way to shoot multiple arrows simultaneously to hit multiple targets. From what you have said here, you can possibly shoot multiple arrows, but all but the center one will likely curve then straighten their course towards the target aimed at by the center arrow. Am I understanding this correctly?

[@NUSensei]

Multiple arrows likely would not even curve. Remember that the energy is divided between each arrow, which means 2 arrows will have half the energy, etc. Since the curve shot requires a fine balance between temporarily offsetting the arrow's tendency to correct its flight, a weaker shot would probably be much straighter and fall shorter.

[@axeavier]

Thanks for the informative video. I never knew about the book

[@McJaews]

Regarding the turning arrow description, I'm thinking that the original text described its use in a performance context. Having an archer performing trick shots with a partner. Just a guess. There's obviously no one in history who ever thought that a returning arrow could ever have a practical purpose *Cough except idiots who lie about the practical implementations of trick shooting on KZbin for views Cough*

[@matejba67]

Nu, just wanna ask: Are the archery tricks in War of the Arrows realistic?

[@dace48]

As discussed in this video, you cannot control the flight of the arrow or when it bends so the finale where he shoots around his sister - absolute fiction. However, when he cuts down his broken arrow and uses a bamboo "barrel" to shoot down; that is absolutely a Korean war archery trick. It is known as the Peonjeon or "baby arrow" shot down a "tong-ah"

[@NUSensei]

Thanks for reminding me. I've got one of those in the car.

[@lisliaer7999]

Would an archer who uses finger walking cause the flight to bend?

[@NUSensei]

It's not quite the same. The big difference is that the arrow is still placed in the centre of the string, and is therefore not offset and will not deflect. However, the off-centre placement of the fingers does create an uneven push as the limbs are no longer working in synchronisation, which is why barebow stringwalkers need to tune their bows different for their point-on distance, and also accept that at other distances, it's not going perform exactly the same. However, modern limbs are so fast and consistent than the difference is synch is marginal.

[@jackkeedal9615]

Lars Andersen's videos are fun to watch. But that's just all there is...fun and nothing more.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Yes, it is fun to see amateurs with an hour or two of training hitting thrown targets... Nothing of value in that kind of training...Nothing of value to be able to shoot arrows fast and accurate at distances where other archers have to take time and aim each arrow carefully in order to be that accurate... Nothing useful in any video by any archer... just fun... right?

[@cloudrouju526]

As regarding the return arrow, I am highly skeptical of it even can be done at all. Unlike the boomerang, which follow a circular trajectory, it is very hard to imagine an arrow, despite how many fletchings it has, 6 or 8, will follow such a circular path and loop all the way around back to its starting location. There are some pretty important information which were not specified in the source material. Draw weight, angle (both vertical and lateral), linear distance traveled by the arrow (the diameter of the expected circular path), lateral deviation when arrow circles back, size, shape, type, material and orientation of the fletchings, etc. These were either not mentioned at all, or very crudely described. Without these information, one simply can not judge the validity of such a fantastic claim. My gut tells me, however, this is just one of those legends that people imagined, nothing more. BTW it's easy to see why the during the tester's test the arrow would turn around. If the back end is heavier then the center of gravity is closer to the back end. This really has nothin to do will the fletchings, or the hole on the tip (well maybe a little bit, it causes increased air resistance, therefore introduces a higher degree of instability, making it easier for the arrow to flip around).

[@cloudrouju526]

meaning it is nothing more than maximizing the effect of the archer's paradox.

[@NUSensei]

That's exactly how the trick works.

[@numancankahraman]

I know it's not related to the video but I'm wondering, Can I shoot in my room? (I measured 360 cm to a wall to wall.)

[@TheTheads0]

You should really not. Technically, as long as you have a thick enough target and you can always hit it then you COULD, but you will not find it enjoyable and it will likely be very unsafe anyway, and storing that big of a target would not be practical. You should try and find a club to shoot at.

[@NUSensei]

You don't need distance to shoot. 3m is enough for form practice. However, you must absolutely ensure that there is no possible risk of an arrow leaving the room, either through an entry or through the wall.

[@numancankahraman]

@@NUSensei First of all I'm already shooting in a club. So all I need to do is form practice. Secondly, I'm sure about safety. I'll set the target in front of the wall (the wall is rigid) and I'll get a target like 100x100. Thank you so much NUSensei :)

[@alanbeaulier5783]

Curving arrows NO, lobbing arrows over something yes.

[@CludzyMasta]

Can anyone explain why a yumi bow can shoot straight despite unequal limb lengths?

[@PATHAKkumarANKIT]

Sensei, i am 15, i have been saving money and have saved almost $78 and my cousin who does archery for past 8 years, suggested that i should take INITECH 2 from decathlon as it is only bow available in my city. should i do it? Also my locality doesn't have any club or range so can you make a video about "making your own target"

[@rubenv3026]

I personally wouldn't do it, it's a horrible shooting bow. I started out with one and now that I'm more advanced I noticed that it's not a good bow. Very little power, lots of handshock and vibration. I would look for a bow online.

[@girish6085]

There Is book named "eklavya" of writer "Vijay devde" in language "marathi" were it is written how to curve arrow and they use it

[@icecreambone]

so is curving arrows basically just a larger example of the archer's paradox?

[@NUSensei]

Yes. You're pretty much exploiting it.

[@flatmosquito]

Sounds like different axis, though? Archer’s paradox is perpendicular to bow axis, whereas shooting-from-behind-cover type of trajectory curving is utilizing ~handspan off-center nocking along bow axis.

[@Taistelukalkkuna]

There is a discussion of this? And here I thought the purpose of war archery is to kill your opponent, and not trying to impress onlookers. /s

[@Appletank8]

does the opponent count as an onlooker?

[@Taistelukalkkuna]

@@Appletank8 Stop asking so difficult questions......=)P

[@deondrestewart3603]

Nobody: Arrow:↩️

[@sleepykid156]

Here is my line of thought about popularity of Lars Andersen and why people are so enamoured with him. It's combination of what I like to call "mystical kung fu glasses" with "Secret knowledge ego booster" Now what I mean by the "mystical kung fu glasses" is this: People in contemporary times have this odd fixation (I might even go far as worshipping of) with skills of people of the past. I am not an archer but I have been doing a lot of Martial Arts and you see this kind of attitude all the time in Martial Arts circle as well. I met people who legitimately think Bruce Lee can fight as well as he can on the big screen. Or people who think Samurai from the Warring States Period and the Edo periods were all god-like swordsmen that can draw, cut and resheath their sword in a blink of an eye. And I suspect that what drives alot of Lars Andersen's fans is this "mystical kung fu glasses" effect. Lars Andersen quotes old timey archery teachers out of context and flashes art work of archers from the past to "give credibility" to his trick archery performance. "See, archers of old times did this! How can old timey masters who basically ate, shit and breathed archery be wrong?!" Now for my second point: Having a secret knowledge that no one knows about is an instant ego booster. It all the sudden put you above the ordinary. You are better than the rest of the plebs doing "Olympic archery" because now you know that real archers can prance like a lemur on drugs and shoot arrows at a higher rate of fire than a MG-42. It puts you above even the best archers because you know that they are wrong and you have real secret. Combine the two and you have people who feel like their ego has been boosted because they have this super secret that no one knows about that cannot be wrong since ancient old timey masters says so. It really resembles a lot of delusions I see in Martial Arts community.

[@NUSensei]

I agree with this assessment. Like many martial art frauds, Lars claims a vague, unverifiable heritage to an ancient art, and avoids having to prove anything.

[@eriklommen]

you have been smokingt a lot of seaweed if u think bruce lee wasnt a real fighter. do some research.

[@sleepykid156]

@@eriklommen I never disputed Bruce Lee's actual Martial Arts ability. But highly doubt he can actually fight large group of men armed with weapons like in this movie scene: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpi5k6aljsRnlc0 You can make the argument that he probably could have if they all conveniently attacked him one at a time like the guards did in the most section of the movie. But the people I am talking about in my comment really believe he could have easily defeated multiple armed attackers. That's just too incredible for me to believe.

[@hastingwoodbaskets]

Andersen tricks is the reason I’m doing archery 🏹 and all you are just sore losers trying make yourselfs feel better with your posts,like that 🦊 that couldn’t reach 🍇telling everyone grapes are sour.And NUSensei is biggest loser of them all even he runs a half decent archery channel 🤓

[@JETBLACKPRIEST]

I once accidentally curved a carbon arrow with a broken tip, no idea how I did it but I had smacked it into concrete which blew apart the end of the arrow, I decided to bid it farewell but when I shot it it hooked a 90 degree left turn after about 20 metres of straight flight, it was scary as shit, if I shot it more upwards I'm sure it would have come back at me or close to it

[@kevinvanderhoef2149]

If your arrow is returning to you in a war situation you are doing it wrong. indirect fire using a bow and arrow is Basic Archery. Wars fought using the Least expensive means if possible. This usually means that everyone is using the same style of bow, the same style of arrow, and most of your archers are green/inexperienced. The bulk of your archers will not be curving their shots around obstacles. So, other than indirect massed fire as a group, Curving arrows will not be used.

[@mindbreak666]

Tie moar nocking points in your string... Also... what if you both thin it and weigh it to offset the tip...

[@user-yq9vf2gx2s]

No one would do a kata in battle

[@SkywalkerExpress]

Ancient warriors use to curve arrows to kill enemy hiding behind wall. Modern soldiers : say hello to Carl Gustav

[@chastethompson1086]

The returning arrow could be good as a distraction if you were planning to stab someone in the back, both literally and metaphorically. "Hey, look at that, it's coming right at your face...stab".

[@Leverguns50]

So what I have learned, it is pointless to make an arrow return to oneself, and if you do, you still have a pointless arrow

[@aasishnechalee4121]

I use four fletching in a arrow birds feather n our target range is 145 meters long n once i put a three left winding n one right winding fletching n the arrow used to dance in mid flight it took me lots of time to find my mistake n correct it

[@JustinJaybrown]

I want to know about the big arrowhead from war of the arrows

[@andreHK8]

Question, in the war of the arrows scene with the tong-ah. his technique to curve the arrow he actually twisted the notch. Is that a real technique?

[@NUSensei]

To my knowledge, it isn't possible to twist the string like when the bow is drawn. Since the limbs are stretching the string, and the string is fully taut, it shouldn't be possible to twist it like he did.

[@pwolkowicki]

I suppose that military archers had completely different problem - how to shoot through thick layer of armour or how to find the gaps in the armour. As shown on Lindybeige film, where he showed an archer shooting to a breastplate from point blank and hardly scratching it. Skallagrim also showed some armour testing, as well as Thang & Thrend. They all showed that going through an average armour isn''t that easy neither for arrows nor bolts nor swords nor even for waraxes. People back then had a really good reason to pay fortune for good armour.

[@manapple176]

Maybe they just shoot randomly into the enemy formations hoping some arrows would go through the eyeslid or hit weak points in the armor?

[@vincewhite5087]

Reminds me of the martial arts tours, where there was always some guy promoting magic Chi power & could touch a person & they drop. If you follow the circuits, it’s the same volunteers from audience in every city. Knew people that tried to follow the circuits& purposely volunteer to take part in demo, but would never get picked it was always the same person (plant) at each city. Had friends that took video & you can see it’s same guys.

[@sqlb3rn]

After an arrow pulls 180* turn I think the g force would bleed off all the energy. Certainly looks that way in the video, arrow just falls to the ground after making the turn. Same problem with missiles turning in flight after they burn all their fuel.

[@Jmack7861]

Nu “Lars Anderson sucks” sensei

[@shadowpenguin-skyrimbuilds8663]

imlee888 but he does. He’s a terrible person regardless of his awesome skill with a bow XD

[@GamelessOne]

I don't think that's the message here. Nu is just delivering context. Something Lars isn't very good at himself.

[@ocanain1731]

I don't see what's wrong with Nu Sensei aspiring to be an archer instead of a jester. Surely the truth matters.

[@LogicJab]

Humanity and Conflicts farming? Crafting? Most soldiers did other things when not at war. Also, Lars’s trick shots don’t work with bows once the weights get into “warbow” weighs (or really adult weights if we’re going to be honest)

[@NUSensei]

@@humanityandconflicts "Nothing else to do" is an extremely broad statement. We can't assume that archers did nothing but do archery. Most archers were, at best, semi-professional in that they received a wage for their service to their lord, which meant they also had to support themselves. That meant farming, hunting, family, and numerous other activities, many of which would have been dawn-to-dusk activities (such as sowing and harvesting). For the time that they were in service, it would make far more sense to hone their skill in the purpose for which they were recruited, and activities that did not directly help this would have been discouraged. In England, for example, there were laws set in place that banned football in order to encourage people to practice more archery. This doesn't mean that every archer lived a dull life training and drilling, and the source material such as Arab Archery identify specific archery masters who clearly did write treatises on archery technique and skillful shooting. These seem exceptional rather than normal, however. Western sources don't really single out "archery masters". More importantly, we don't really have a basis to assume that ancient archers were superhuman, or any better than people today. There are some general trends that can be recognised. As more things required manual effort, the average person might have had more constitution than a modern office worker. However, there are hard limits on how heavy a bow could be used or how fast one could shoot. Again, the primary sources such as Arab Archery provide very clear instructions on how test draw weights and hammer down on not using a bow that is too strong for the user. This would imply that, like people today, that not everyone was capable of combat-level equipment. We do know that trained war archers could have used 80-100# composite bows and 100#+ long bows - and those feats have been replicated in modern times by people who invest a fair amount of time into training, so it's not a superhuman feat. Perhaps it would be more fair to say that these skills and capabilities would have been more common as more people were required to do so, rather than those who did being far more capable than what a person could do today.

[@skulay]

I feel like is can be used for indoor warfare. There is no wind indoors. This could be devastating in close combat with a shields in front of you.

[@marththeheroking933]

Can u teach us how to make a flemish twist string pls

[@thomasmcinnis12]

Check out www.poorfolkbows.com. He does guides on how to build bows mainly, but he also did a guide/video on making a flemish twist string. I found the guide was quite informative and easy to follow.

[@beardedbowyer9327]

cool^ yet not sure how effective that against armor..or plate awesome vid mate

[@RosssRoyce]

What is the term for shooting a projectile pushed by an arrow tied fixed to the string?

[@assaultspoon4925]

Dry fire. I dont reccommend tieing arrows to strings on bows you like

[@zzlcn]

I just have only one simple question : Can you bend the arrow like Lars Andersen does?

[@tengkualiff]

A lot of archers can.

[@peterxyz3541]

Speed x weight = penetration. Deep penetration = kill through armour or heavy leather armour...shoe leather armour. I like Anderson’s trick shooting but it’s too slow slow to kill. Maybe psychological treat, sure...but, a club up side the head is just as psychologically disturbing as a blunt stick (arrow without a point) in the face is the enemy was standing “next to you”.

[@TorquemadaRex]

Nice skill when u are hunting and a tree is between you and the target.

[@superganjahleaf619]

Not every shot of an arrow has to be a kill shot. Have we forgotten about the poison arrow? But a mere graze of its presence upon the face your skin is enough to render the blood toxic and in minutes the enemy neutralized.

[@NUSensei]

There's no evidence that poison arrows were used in curving shots.

[@superganjahleaf619]

@@NUSensei Oh of course there isn't any evidence of poison being used on curving arrows. We only have the evidence of poison being used on anything and everything else across the span of human history, but never on an arrow, preposterous. Who would ever think of putting poison on a weopen that can silently kill from a distance. Why would anyone ever think of putting poison on what seems to be the perfect candidate for the use of poison. "There is no evidence of poison being used on arrows"...? GTFOoH with that B.S. You have no evidence of poison never being used on arrows. Just because you say so means nothing. Besides the way you phrased it makes the point that poison was used on other types of arrows, but except on curving arrows. What moron cannot see the connection of poison on a curving arrow if after being used on regular arrow? Unless you want to double down on said foolery and make the claim that poison arrows are and were never a thing? Besides there exists a plethora of evidence of many cultures across the Earth throughout Human existence of poison indeed being used on everything from spears to darts, sht, it was even used on ninja stars. "There's no evidence..." The only evidence lacking here is that of your common sense

[@NUSensei]

@@superganjahleaf619 I didn't say that there is no evidence of poison being used on arrows. I said there was no evidence of poison arrows being used in curving shots. There's also no evidence of curving shots being used in any practical situation. You cannot prove a negative, so any assertion that something was used needs to be backed by evidence. The cultures that we know that used poison arrows don't curve their shots.

[@harrykouwen1426]

If you want to kill an enemy that stands besides you with an arrow, you can take an arrow from your quiver and stab him with it instead of fabricating an intricat arrow and hoping it's unknown trajectory kills the enemy by surprice rather then puncture.

[@Buckarooskiczek]

Instead of fletching, attach points at both ends. You now have an arrow with the point of no return....😜

[@peterxyz3541]

“Returning” arrow = very weak spine.

[@aqeel77za]

Wonder how many guys are going to try this after watching this video

[@tylerrakmore1517]

I'm a master curve arrow shooter. My arrows curve in every direction except going straight.

[@daniellisy7161]

Love those historical discussion :D as history of archery would cover several millennia :) may be even back to dawn of humanity, even if we narrow it to military its still millennia. Clashes of armies are something else as say a covert mission, without having any historical evidence I still could see use of a trick shot in a covert mission, just to distract the enemy. What I would like to see, is someone to proof on a ballistic gel, that he could shoot a curved lethal arrow.

[@NUSensei]

The proof by demonstration thing is something that is lacking. While proponents might present Lars Andersen as the prime example, the issue is that Andersen does staged and edited demo videos, not live demonstrations. The critical viewer can't discern whether he intentionally aimed the arrow to follow that path, or whether the stage was set to follow the path that he knew. The line one the floor was a giveaway to the trick. As for "covert" missions, we need to be careful not to confuse our sense of historical context with modern fantasy and film scenarios. The most "covert" an operation would get would be King Henry V stomping around northern France with an army of 10,000 until Agincourt.

[@markuscamenzind5510]

i dont get why the boomerang is mentioned so much ? the boomerang is only returning if you miss the target and some boomerangs are not returning at all . a war boomerang is designed to swing around a Speer when trying to deflect it. bananas and apples

[@kenshiroson4893]

Is there anyway you could comment on the Olympic Archer in the movie, the host? Whether they did a good job, and everything looks authentic and believable.

[@gburke3001]

This would absolutely be useful in battle.

[@AstralTraveler]

It depends on the kind of battle. Rather useless in open field and armored opponents and pretty useful in a local clash within a city.

[@childishchiquillo859]

He just exposed Lars, where's keemstar?

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

What did Lars do to the returning arrow? Why look at some historical text that might not have anything real behind it? Just ask Lars what he did to the arrow...Also, why talk about trying to ht someone behind yourself when the video shows an arrow that could hit someone behind a wall, a ninety degree corner. A sharp arrow point can hurt you while you handle it. Even an arrow thrown by hand could hurt someone... I am glad we agree there is no definite way to know either way if this was used in warfare or not...

[@NUSensei]

The historical text was used because that is where Lars got the idea of the returning arrow from. The arrow is not a sharp arrow intended to hurt someone. When viewers think it could be used to kill people from around corners, it actually cannot.

[@robertcline7476]

so THIS is how i get shot around the corner in Modern Warfare

[@Yensil]

I feel like this is a really stupid question which implies a complete failure to understand basic principles of physics such as momentum. Arcing arrows though...that's doable because gravity returns all the momentum you lost going up when the arrow goes back down, if the field is level, with change if you have the high ground (which is why Anakin can't win)

[@RPCauldron]

but... but... but... in Robin Hood men in tights they had missile arrows!

[@rumplefourskin6775]

Nu is mad skeptical lol

[@randyharvey3059]

I didn't watch all of the video, but the gist I got was making use of the Archers Paradox.

[@m.o.s6275]

when i was child, i played arrows that was twisted and it curve like hell and i did hit 8/10 shot xD but if shot by war bow by hi velocity arrow mith not fly same way, but it was fun!

[@djimanufacture7682]

If a bow can recurve, Why an arrow can not?

[@arshia1981]

first learn to do the techniques then demonstrate it and finally say its not possible! you see things in youtube, you assume something based on your knowledge or feeling and then you make a comment. this is very poor and it just shows you dont have enough knowledge and techniques

[@jens-kristiantofthansen9376]

How about someone actually demonstrating that it can be done in the first place? Despite his trick shot prowess and years of saying he has, Lars Andersen hasn't demonstrated that anything he does would have been useful in battle. Lars' tricks rely on shooting a very low poundage bow at less than full draw, in controlled, rehearsed/choreographed conditions with pre-knowledge of where each target is so that every movement can be pre-planned. In addition to this, we have no idea just how many times he needs to attempt any given shot before he gets it right. Lars is a fun trick shooter, and is truly excellent at that. But that is what he is.

[@kenshiroson4893]

Also, have u you seen the Film, we need to talk about Kevin. It's about a teenager who commits a school shooting with a longbow.

[@edwardmyers8782]

So explain Japanese bows. They shoot really straight

[@jspringer1978]

The Japanese yumi style bow has limbs of differing lengths, and is shot with the arrow correspondingly below the center of the string so the effect is the same as centering the arrow on a bow with equal limbs... it goes straight.

[@tmalonso]

imagine the applications for bird hunting though...lot less lost arrows ;)

[@nexra0]

Very punny, sensei.

[@ThePonycat]

Yeah I don't think that they wasted time curving arrows in the battlefield. Because they were there to kill people not to play Call of Duty 360 no scopes. Or that other movie with Angelina Jolie where they curve the bullets and make the prison dead around the wall. And for the scenario if they're in the bushes or close to one another the Arches going to pull out a sidearm they're not going to waste your time with trying to do a trick shot and most of the time on the battlefield the target is moving are not black Styrofoam targets.

[@XdivineExp]

Totally agree. Even if they knew about curving arrows like in the first explanation Nu Sensei gave, how often would people even find themselves in such a ridiculously niche situation where they want to rely on such a shot? There's just too many variables that need to perfectly align in order to make such a shot viable in a life and death situation. 1. You need to have an obstacle in the way that can't impede the initial flight of the arrow since it does still need to travel a bit to curve. So something like a tree. 2.The target cannot be too close to the tree because if they are, the arrow will simply wrap around both the tree AND the target. With the shot in this video that Lars did the arrow wraps quite well around the obstacles, but the bow is also relatively low power. If he were to be using a stronger bow the arc would be much longer and much more less pronounced. This would make the "too close" area much much longer. 3. The shooter would need to have actively practiced the shot. You can't just pull something like this out of your ass. In order to know how far up or down they need to nock the arrow in order to achieve the curve to hit the target at the required distance the archer will need to have practiced a ton. 4. Pretty much all of this assumes a 1v1 scenario between an archer and someone else. It could of course be multiple people vs multiple people, but in such a case why would the archer choose to shoot a target standing behind cover rather than someone else who is almost certainly NOT behind cover? Seems like poor decision making. In the case that the target is a sufficient distance from the tree to make something like this work though, why not simply take a step or two to the side and shoot directly at them? Like you said, this isn't battlefield or CoD, this would be in a life or death situation. The amount of training they have shooting curved arrows would not be anywhere near the amount they have shooting straight arrows, so why take the chance when the consequence of failure is likely death? It honestly seems similar to the returning arrow in terms of gimmick value to show off to their buddies, rather than something that has absolutely any practical value.

[@NUSensei]

Well summarised. The curve-shot is similar to the limitations of throwing knives. In using the more common spinning method of throwing a knife, it is *only* effective at specific distances when the blade rotates towards the target. If you don't happen to be exactly 7 metres away, the knife won't stick. The uneducated spectator won't know this, so it looks amazing to see the knive thunk into the board. Likewise, the archery curve-shot has very set limitations. The path can be altered with a different draw weight or arrow, but the archer has no control over what the arrow does beyond this choice. The demo by Armin Hirmer uses standard carbon target arrows, and the amount of deflection was so minimal, his demo shots mostly hit the obstacles. Andersen uses larger and heavier broadheads, which also softens the spin and makes the arrow more front-heavy, making it easier to curve, but he can't really alter the path. The use of blocks to create a "path" for the arrow is a clever performer's illusion - he already knows what the path is and he built the wall around it, using the line on the floor as the aim reference. It's why the shot around the volunteers was "safe" - as long as the volunteers stood exactly where the arrow can only go, they will not be hit (and as a safety precaution, the technique will cause the arrow to spin further to the side if done incorrectly). But as you summed up, these are extremely controlled conditions. Once you introduce an unpredictable element, the shot cannot be done.

[@alexanderflack566]

@@XdivineExp Agreed with all of that, plus if you notice in the trick shot the bow is held low and horizontal. This is not good for the biomechanics of actually being able to draw and shoot a heavy bow, and it also necessitates a shorter draw, neither of which is a good thing for someone using a heavy draw weight bow and trying to squeeze every Joule from it that they can manage in order to wound and kill through armor and across significant distances. Which is another thing, actually; at the distances we see this type of shot being performed, any archer with an ounce of self preservation would be drawing a sidearm.

[@korrdxl]

So much for being "done" with Lars.

[@NUSensei]

I'm done with Lars. But Lars does not own history, and I have every reason to continue discussing the topics that interest me.

[@petarpetalarev8297]

Yeah, I'm disappointed too.

[@ocanain1731]

@@NUSensei Well said.

[@dace48]

He does not own history, he does however own one history book, flipped straight to the chapter on trick shots then claimed to have invented them all.

[@lantranarde]

@@NUSensei personally I think both you and Lars are right, but on the opposite ends of a context. I do think that he over-exaggerate the practicality of his tricks, but he is consistent to his path (explore the "novelty" part of archery). Aspiring writers like me would be happy to hear about more ideas from him, combining with practical reviews from archery enthusiasts like you to explore more possibilities. We wouldnt believe that any army in the history would train their archers to kill their enemies with these tricks, but we would love to hear about tales where a hero skillfully does so against a band of bandit in a forest. I think Lars can be a bit more moderate about his point of view, but I guess I would have never hear about him if he had been like that. The man is kinda alone in this area right now and he needs publicity. I don't think you are salty about him or anything, but I understand why some people who watch your channel would think of you that way.

[@somethingsomethingsomethingdar]

I’m gonna go with no.

[@ninjadruidassasin666]

so my ypothesis: you make the arrow with one end normal arrow (that pierces) and the other end a weight propotional to the analogy you describe in the video so it has similar function. so let's say there is a horse chase, and the enemy is behind you blocking you from turning to shoot while riding. couldn't you shot this arrow forward so that when it is returning to the firing position the enemy will be there. since he will have momentum from the horse+momentum from the arrow i believe it might actually deal some dmg. now soak the tip with poison and you have 1d8+1d6 dmg arrow. :P it's working!!!

[@tuttebelleke]

Great video! I have zero expertise in archery, but there is an alternative method to make curve an arrow not discussed in this video: Use a "large" triangular plate as arrow tip and curve it "slightly" sideways. This curve should later be adapted to the radius the arrow is desired to fly. This technique gives you a curving arrow for 100% sure. But any "slight" rotation of the arrow around it's own axis during the flight, would make deflect the arrow curve up or down !!!. I have no idea if that can be managed well (by curving one of the rear points of the arrow tip little more or less????) ??? It depends on this if this technique could be used in combat situation, yes or no??? I appreciate any feedback !!!

[@NUSensei]

There's no combat application.

[@earthman4222]

No. Yes. Doesn't matter. The guy next to you will hit what you miss.

[@djinn201]

It's impractical in war simple

[@zeeshanmasood]

Hey nu I bought my first full size 66” bow but bought a glove instead of a tab

[@zeeshanmasood]

That’s not a problem right?

[@NUSensei]

No problem.

[@zeeshanmasood]

NUSensei bearing in mind it is an Olympic style?

[@NUSensei]

Tabs are better for this style of shooting, but no reason why you can't shoot with a glove.

[@zeeshanmasood]

NUSensei thx

[@youMUSTMindset]

Your voice doesn't match your voice but its so cool

[@ashleyoasis7948]

Kinetic levitation

[@daenielsamson7593]

This guy is like Shadiversity but insted of swordsmanship its... you know... archery

[@AlfaRevoluzione]

War Archers catch and curve Arrows. !!! Ist a common skill in Arrow Tag

[@datGuy0309]

Martin Spörri yes

[@tonic451]

"They could bend the arrows around the corners" That's the first thing you wanted to correct? A nitpick over semantics? lol @NUSensei You should check out "War of the Arrows". It's a really good korean film about an archer fighting against mongol archers. The MC can curve his arrow shots. 😎 Considering the way you handled Lars, you'll make a ton of vids breaking down the fights in that film. Anyway.. Archery was more widely used in the east as a primary weapon. They likely turned arrows in eastern archery styles. Why? Well, for one there's more variations of bows, arrows, styles specific to country, ways archery was employed in battles.You can shoot around shields or cover at stationary targets that think they're safe. That's a damn good reason to use it even if you have to carry some arrows just for those shots.

[@NUSensei]

It's not really a semantic nitpick. It is a clear misinterpretation of the shot. The target is directly in front of the shooter, as compared to being offset from the shooter. After a set distance, the arrow no longer points towards the intended target and will spin uselessly, as we see in some of the lobbing shots in Andersen's demonstration where the target is nearly hit nock-first. Consider the number who think that a historical archer can literally shoot around a sharp bend, it has to be cleared up. As for eastern archer styles being "more likely" to have turned arrows, I would like to see a source for this. We're in the business of debunking logical and historical fallacies now, and we're going after the generalisations and assumptions that have no solid proof behind them. The "turning arrows" trick is only brought up in two sources (Arab Archery c.1500 and The English Bowman c.1800), so if we are going to conclude a likelihood of it being used, we need some evidence. The "more variations in bows and arrows" doesn't directly support the likelihood of a curved shot being used. The shooting style in the east was largely similar and had very few variations, and not notably more than western styles. Shields have been used in the West since Antiquity, and no mention of curving arrows around shields or cover is noted. Again, we are ignoring the effect of having numerous archers deployed in an army compared to individual archers engaged in a movie duel. Not to mention that we can't prove that an arrow can be shot around the shield to hit the person holding it.The best demonstrations by Lars Andersen required several metres to bring the arrow back into the centre line. This may sound semantic or pedantic, but call this the beginning of a warpath against the fallacies brought up my numerous enthusiasts and KZbinrs who perpetuate them. If there is no evidence, we cannot say it was likely.

[@tonic451]

@@NUSensei The arrow curves or turns into the target. You're being overly literal about the wording. People get what the phrase is meant to convey. There's a handful of manuals on it and there's no records that we know of that say it was used in war or not but I'm not making my argument based on written accounts but rather using logic. Why? You asked "Did war archers curve arrows" but you can't absolutely prove that they didn't nor can I prove they did so we have to make our argument using logic but you can continue with your argument from ignorance if you want. In Lars vids, you can see that the arrow comes around the obstacle rather sharply before it straightens back out. At that point of the shot, it can get around a shield to the target holding it. In the longer ranges, it would be easier to get around one due to having more room to complete a bigger turn. When facing against an archer, a person would use whatever cover they had or a shield to deflect/stop the archer's arrows or approach the archer with relative safety. If there was a way for an archer to shoot thru or around cover, it would be logical that they would at least try to learn the various ways to do it. Since we know that they knew of it in the east/west and they had a logical motivation in learning it, it's safe to assume that some war archers knew how to use it and did use it because it can get around cover. In battle with hundreds or thousands of archers it would difficult to tell if a archer or 50 archers were curving/turning arrows. Archery styles in the east and west are fairly different. That's a fact. Did you forget about the differences in drawing? How about the east using alot of cavalry archers? Think about the way you fight as an archer on the ground vs on a horse. It's completely different. It's why I said the east would be more likely to use it in war vs the west. Mongol armies (which consisted of mainly horse archers) would attack armies on open ground, in cities and fortifications. There would be plenty of instances of people using cover or shields against an army of mainly archers. Mongolian bows had the range to snipe people when they wanted (even more range than English longbows). My argument is that at least some war archers likely turned arrows in battles based on that they had the motivation to use it and access to learning it.

[@NUSensei]

Given the number of people who try to tell me that ancient archers and/or Lars Andersen could literally kill me from around a corner, I feel that our more sensible understanding of the curve shot isn't universal. At least by making a point of defining the shot, we're seeing it in the same way, and we can talk about it as we are now. Lars also deliberately plays on a poor understanding of semantics to gently push the viewer into thinking the impossible. For example, Lars mentions that "Records also describe a form of returning arrow" - however, he cites no record, and his source is not a "record" but a treatise, which doesn't record evidence of the shot actually being made, only saying that it could be done (no one one has been able to replicate the shot exactly as described, and he himself fails the shot as described in his source). This might sound like petty nitpicking, but this is how we begin the process of inventing history: by twisting words and making conclusive statements when we don't have proof to back it up. Prefacing this reply: I'm becoming more averse to discussing history based on "logic". Logic is often based on flawed assumptions, seen from a modern perspective in which the information that we know today would not have been known to the people at the time, and that we come out making strong conclusions based on only hypothetical evidence. What it ultimately devolves into is a war of assertions rather than evidence that can change our mind. Incorrect application of logic means are spreading ignorance based on false logic. The Lars video shows us several things: that his narration is misleading ("it is possible to hit an enemy hiding behind an object" = openly standing several metres behind an object i.e. not in cover), that he can only bring an arrow back into centre-line at very short distances (