Diegetic Control in Deltarune and Why It's Important

There's a lull in Deltarune content and now that Chapter 2 has been released, I wanted to make a video discussing some of my thoughts related to this game that already has so much interesting content regarding control and the condition of a protagonist. This is my first major video essay-type video, so I hope you enjoy!
Timestamps:
Intro (Are We Connected?): 0:00
Narration in Undertale (It's me, Chara): 3:10
Control in Undertale (Ctrl Alt Delete): 5:02
Connection in Deltarune (It's Only You): 7:00
Player Diegeticness (My Castle Town): 9:10
Control and Morality (You Whispered Noelle's Name): 13:17
Why Make Control Diegetic? (Heart on a Chain): 15:48
Outro (Don't Forget): 19:18
=======================================================
My Twitter: / vivat_veritas
Andrew Cunningham's channel: / @andrew_cunningham
NarraChara analysis here: determinators.tumblr.com/post...
Music used (all Deltarune unless specified otherwise):
Before the Story
Home (Undertale)
It's Raining Somewhere Else (Undertale)
THE HOLY
My Castle Town
ANOTHER HIM
The Dark Truth
An Ending (Undertale)
You Can Always Come Home

[@andrew_cunningham]

It feels a bit like insider trading to praise this since you shouted me out so many times, but nonetheless, this video is a rock solid review of the higher level concepts that give meaning to all the fiddly plot mechanics in Toby's games. The common theme of the player possessing unnatural and un-earned control (or maybe more generally "power") between UT and DR is something I've definitely felt, but haven't heard put into words before. I especially like the emphasis you put on the diegetic game mechanics being stark reality for the in-game characters, since a lot of the impact behind Toby's meta-fuckery comes from taking these kind of abstract- dare I say "intellectual"- concepts and illustrating them through an visceral, emotionally-driven scenarios.

[@Vivat_Veritas]

It genuinely means so much to me that you like this video, it's an honour!

[@chinlota682]

Cool guy here

[@gabrote42]

Thanks for bringing me here. I made a timestamped comment. I hope it gets read and that you enjoyed Earthbound!

[@philltheotherguy1868]

He took your job

[@penguin-IDK]

crossover episode

[@matti.8465]

This is exactly why I disagree with the idea of Undertale being fully "meta". The game isn't aware of its existence as a game, but rather, those game elements are made diegetic, part of the world. For example, when Flowey talks about seeing the world as a game and people as nothing but lines of dialogue, it's not meant to be interpreted as "Flowey knows this is a literal videogame", but rather, he's become so detached that he know sees everything as one of those games he and Chara played as children.

[@para9938]

There is even direct proof of this non-fully meta nature : Flowey after a true pacifist is convinced that whoever is in control of the save without being Frisk is the fallen human / Chara. While Chara after a genocide is not only certain you were already aware of their presence the whole time, but sure that Frisk's soul is your soul, basically for good reasons think of you as Frisk not as a player who have to guess who the narrator is. It's certain that both Chara and Frisk are present, but we as players we cannot possibly be both Frisk and not Frisk, so the existence of the player as a third entity is real to this world but no one acknowledge it, we get confused for someone else instead. As for Sans, he already struggle to see the difference between Flowey's use of reset and yours, so it's even more doubtful he could guess a player is there (an outside force maybe he could theorize it ? A game player definitely not). So yeah, they go for the simple explications they can understand, they don't jump on the meta explanation for no reason, being determined not to die so coming back to live is supernatural but not proof that you are in the Matrix, and Frisk's body having both Frisk and Chara in it create a red herring preventing every character from ever figuring out the player's existence. Also that makes Frisk the hardest character to analyse in this game, it's like it's just our vessel but what's left after the ending when we are not there on the surface with them ? So we just have flavor text from interactions or save points (which can be what Frisk does or feel, or what Chara feel, or what Chara joke about) or ACTs (which Chara can add some options like Burn, unclear whether it's the case for most ACTs), so how the ACT is done after choosing is more relevant I think, aside from humorous description of the act by Chara of course which still leaves it for interpretation. Basically Frisk is their own person but seem quite content being a vessel, be it for us or Chara, with Chara taking our guidance to decide how they should be ; so really a sharp contrast with Kris accompanied by Susie.

[@DarkMarxSoul]

The thing is though that Undertale presents those diagetical game elements AS literal in-universe game elements. Flowey talks about seeing the world as a game because he's detached, but he also destroys your literal save file. Even if Flowey describes the act of "saving" as basically "putting down a piece of your Determination connected to a point in time and space you can reset to if you die", save files as an actual video game artefact are still shown in the game. So it's more accurate to say that Undertale is partially metaphorically meta, and partially literally meta, at the same time, in ambiguous amounts.

[@DarkMarxSoul]

@@para9938 "It's certain that both Chara and Frisk are present" It's really not certain at all. The ambiguous and undefined nature of the scenes you're referring to makes it doubtful that Flowey is literally referring to Chara or that that scene is even "concretely canon" in a way that all other scenes are. Toby obviously intended for you to name the Fallen Human your own name and for Flowey to appear to be speaking directly to you in that scene, and because that was the intent, we can't make a "hard diagetic" argument. Undertale's portrayal of many of its meta events is very loose.

[@doom64hunter]

@@para9938 Since you mention Frisk being our vessel in Undertale, it almost seems like Deltarune's equivalent to Frisk is the discarded character creation vessel. They are basically treated mostly as blank slates by the games and are impossible to analyze (even though Frisk is said to be their own person, they are never given any real characterization). Meanwhile, Chara and Kris both have a storied past and are both given personality through ingame text. They both grew up as Asriel's adopted sibling, so Deltarune's equivalent to Chara is essentially Kris.

[@Chowder_T]

I feel that the central theme of Deltarune is "When your choices don't matter how will you react? When doing the right thing bears no reward and doing evil bears no consequence will you still choose to be kind?" I think that goes hand in hand with what you bring up about control. After all you can't control what life will throw at you but you can control how you respond.

[@lbsc1201]

The problem is that was already the theme in Undertale.

[@falendemo546]

@@lbsc1201 --- I think you forgotten about the Genocide and True Pacifist Routes.

[@ma.2089]

@@lbsc1201 how is it? If you don’t kill anyone you get the best end. If you kill everyone you get the worst ending. If you kill at least one, you get a neutral end. Your actions directly effect your ending. Deltarune is only going to have ONE ending. No matter your choices, you will still get one ending.

[@MoRPho151]

Actually no... the desitions you make in UT change completely the outcome, not only impact some characters like in DR.

[@anzahanifathallah]

it isn't until i watched this video that i realize "Snowgrave" is an anagram of "Wrong Save" Toby can't keep getting away with this

[@BrightEyesDev]

snowgrave was a fan name for the route. its actually called "weird route" in the game's data.

[@clintonbehrends4659]

@@BrightEyesDev right but the spell is in the wierd route and could still be a message (plus toby LOVEs anagrams)

[@CalvinNoire]

@@BrightEyesDev wait isn't it called pipis route in the game?

[@BrightEyesDev]

@@CalvinNoire you have been subject to misinformation

[@Benzinilinguine]

"Also Gaster because I love him." Gaster: I love you too, bud. Here, take an egg.

[@gristen]

if we want to go even deeper into the themes rabbit hole i think its important to talk about the characters backstories as well. kris is an adopted teen dealing with recently divorced parents and a brother away at a college, susie has problems with school, authority figures, and hints towards what might be a bad home life, and noelle most noticeably is struggling with a strict mother, a sick father, and a missing sister-all problems they have very little control over. the fact that our main characters are all teenagers, instead of the younger age that frisk is implied to be, is not an unimportant detail either. your teen years are the age when you begin to break out of the control of your guardians and learn to stand on your own. we see this theme illustrated most obviously through noelle at the end of chapter 2, when she stands up against the queen whos a stand in for her mother. honestly, everything about noelle paints an incredible picture about what this game is trying to say. the game told us our choices dont matter so instead we turn to manipulating another. undertale with all its diverging paths and choices mattering very much really was the perfect set up for a game like this. deltarune with its so-called "one ending" is almost begging the player to find ways to break from the already determined path

[@Vivat_Veritas]

gaster is our real dad

[@NickSRB2]

Id say kris is in middle school but thats fine if you refer to them as teenagers

[@gristen]

@@NickSRB2 pre teens and teens arent really that fundamentally different in terms of development. theyre both at pretty much the same stage of life a few years or so doesnt make too much of a difference. either way theyre definitely older than frisk and are at that turning point of adolescence where you begin to take a more active role in your own life decisions, which is why their age has relevance to the story

[@ceresgc]

I like the idea that when toby stated that there is just 1 ending, that makes the fight for control not just against the game, but against the word of god himself. We enjoyed our freedom in Undertale, and you can be well sure we'll search through every piece of code until we break free again.

[@gristen]

@@ceresgc that would be really fun and makes a lot of sense considering toby fox's background as head of the homestuck music team. that webcomic had the author killed off as a character in a literal "death of the author" moment so it would be really interesting to see toby doing his own take on that. despite them being very different narratives, homestuck's influence has always shined brightly in toby's games for me-especially in regards to the meta stuff. its only natural tho considering that toby actually began undertale's development in the basement of homestuck's author lol

[@mekafinchi]

I really like the kind of analysis that doesn't ask exactly what something is or means and goes through every tiny scrap of information to narrow things down, but instead takes a step back and asks out of the general possibilities, "what would make a good story?"

[@HiThere-ps5rc]

Like the ending of chapter 2, where berdly is like "you can't assume you know someone's feelings better than them* or something, which completely ties to the player in the snowgrave route and what you said just now

[@NotASpyReally]

Berdly said that?? Well that's ironic XD

[@snow9688]

Oh wow, this is the first time I'm hearing about the "Wrongsave" anagram, God it would be so cool if chapters onward do play to the "your choices don't matter" shtick and try to ignore the actions taken throughout the route so you'll have to do file manipulation to continue it, DDLC style. Or not, anyways great video.

[@Blackrose7_-]

Deltarune: The game where the player ends up being an rebellious teenager like Kris, and says screw you towards whoever said your choices don't matter. 😅

[@ATurnip]

I also find graves won, anger vows, and swan grove interesting.

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

@@Blackrose7_- "Fuck you disembodied voice, I have a choice!"

[@void6814]

Console players:

[@-FutureTaken-]

I know I am quite literally a year late, but because the game is on switch its safe to say file manipulation wont happen unfortunately

[@loversiren]

My favorite parts about this specific feature are moments where Kris has more control than usual, like when Susie tells them to run from Lancer, they listen and you can't get them to stop running until they're safe

[@fosstera]

How did you get that to happen?

[@Saelendious]

06:47 I don't know if other comments explained this already or you found the answer yourself, but in case not: originally in initial release (patch 1.0) Toby had the text asking for anyone looking into the files to not post and share secrets and files online. As this was definitely not the case from the game blowing up, that text was changed into this in the first patch, meaning Toby has begun to play along to people revealing all the secrets simply by looking into the game files. He clearly communicates this using different elements, like inaccessible dialogue and sounds, all hidden to be looked into. Just as he said, 'its impossible to have mysteries nowadays'.

[@kescon3]

this is important context! but also it doesn't explain what on EARTH Chara (it's gotta be Chara right?) is talking about. honestly it's the SOLE piece of evidence that really suggests to me they might be in Deltarune.

[@Saelendious]

@@kescon3 this is literally Toby talking to Undertale dataminers in the files. There is no correlation between this undertale text and Chara being in Deltarune. The point I was trying to make is that this text does not relate to Chara at all, and should not be used as evidence for theorizing. I do understand why the phrasing and lack of context may lead someone to think otherwise and try to use this as a puzzle piece for theorizing, but the actual context eliminates any possibility of this making any structural and logical sense.

[@kescon3]

@@Saelendious i doubt that the original message was diegetic, but the new one is clearly in Chara's highly distinctive voice style, and they're a meta character enough to have access to locations such as deep code. Just because we have no idea what this section of text means, doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything.

[@jaclies7628]

@@kescon3 it does mean something and that is toby fox acknowledging that data miners is fine. The proof is that deltarune has lore literally hidden in the game’s code so data miners can share it with the world.

[@RemnantCult]

If you think about it, the idea of a narrative video game is odd, especially if you're in the universe of the game. With almost all media, the narrative is static. It will always be depict the story the same way without the observer's interference. In a video game, you are almost like a deity as you can interfere. There have been a few video games that have nibbled at a few aspects of this nature, such as Metal Gear Solid 2, but Undertale and Deltarune are complete observations of it. The stories work with and integrate that nature into the very world and I believe Deltarune is not only going to say more about this but also highlight ideas that appear once you focus on it and consequences that come about from this unnatural control. Great video!

[@embrefrosste6044]

I really like your interpretation of the dialogue in the goner maker sequence, and how you can relate it to the larger themes of the whole game. It would be really cool if that was intentional. I also agree with the idea that Kris is enacting some kind of plan that either the player can’t do on their own due to the limitations of the narrative, or that Kris can’t afford allowing the player to interfere with. It would be a very interesting plot point if it turned out to be true. I would also think it would make it a good story if Kris needs the Soul for some reason, because I think it would allow for a better moral than the player being the bad guy just for turning on the game.

[@erimgard3128]

"I should probably explain what that word means" Andrew would NEVER lol

[@SoranMBane]

Y'know, on the topic of the Chara/Frisk dichotomy, I think I've come to a conclusion after years of thinking about it; I believe they're BOTH the "player," but both of them represent two different (but not wholly opposed) mindsets the player can approach the game with. Frisk is the side that simply wants to immerse themself in the world, story, and vibes of the game. This is the side of the player that wants to play along with the story, to take their time to appreciate the game world and all its intricacies, and to engage with each of the characters as if they were real people. They value roleplay, immersion, and a relaxed style of play. Meanwhile, Chara is the side that wants to master the game's systems. This is the side that wants to get stronger (whether through stats or skill), to find every last piece of content, and to ultimately "conquer" the game. They value efficiency, completionism, and a skill-based style of play. But of course these two sides are not total polar opposites, or even a spectrum. They're more like a yin-yang symbol, with each side containing a bit of the other inside them, and constantly feeding into each other. After all, a player who is deeply invested in the story and characters can still fall into a completionist "Chara" mindset, mining the game for every last bit of lore and dialog, or mastering the game's combat to try and get the absolute best endings for every NPC, or even playing a genocide run just to experience the full story and feel the emotional gut punches that come with that route. A player who approaches the game primarily as, y'know, a game with a set of systems and challenges to overcome can still become invested in the story and characters, even if that's not the core reason why they're playing. I think there's some reflection of this dynamic in how these two characters are characterized, too. Frisk, of course, is largely a blank slate to facilitate some level of roleplaying, but it's very possible to play them as just the weirdest little goofy goober ever, often to the chagrin of our narrator (Chara), and the way most NPCs talk about Frisk seems to support this being this being their general personality. Chara, as the narrator, gives us tactical tips on how to defeat or spare enemies, frequently mocks us for wasting time, and are themself a source of fun and interesting dialog to to mine the game for. There's also the Winter alarm clock dialog from the Undertale website, where Toriel mentions that she once knew someone (implied to be Chara) who would always fill their water glasses to just above the brim because that was "the most efficient way to fill it," pretty much confirming that an affinity for "efficiency" is a canon part of their personality. One of these two sides might be more in control at any given moment, depending on the player's mindset and in-game choices, but for the most part I think they're both always sharing control to some degree.

[@Ninjacat25]

Interesting analysis, dude. That's a cool way of looking at it.

[@AgentRaven]

This is a great vid! My favorite theories are, like you said, the ones that heighten the thematic storytelling, not just ones that turn loose threads into a tangled knot. What i think is so interesting about the potential of the commentary with us controlling Kris in Deltarune is: it's easy to write a story where a character is possessed, and the entity possessing them is making them do obvious evil things, because it's so clear then that the possession is a bad thing, and why it's a bad thing. And Snowgrave obviously does that, But what about the normal route? What about a story where the entity possessing the character isn't a villain (at least not intentionally)? Is, in fact, doing everything it can to help everyone, and to try and make the person being possessed the best possible version of themself? Where it just wants to help? Does that make the stripping away of the possessed person's agency, the overwriting of their personality, less bad? Could it even, depending on what the person would have chosen on their own will, be justified? When is it right to choose for someone else? It's a complicated, uncomfortable question, and I can't wait for the characters in DeltaRune to face it head on. Even if Kris and/or the world needs us, that doesn't mean Kris can't be unhappy with it. I'm fairly sure that, if Susie finds out, she will initially be *very* not cool it. But I think the game will acknowledge that we have also been forced into this position (re: the vessel being thrown out) and that we'll get the chance to work out a more equal partnership. "I just hope you can be friends with everyone someday." - Toby Fox

[@lukethekuya]

This so much this

[@HeronHero]

Hey, this was really cool, especially the endnotes about Susie and Kris' relationship compared to the soul and Kris.

[@cyberneticsilver1754]

Oh hell yeah this is my jam. The introduction in chapter one and chapter two make it super clear how the player and kris are different (sometimes even at odd), were enough to make DT set apart from UT but I never thought to consider it was not just that. It’s not just moments, it’s ever present in how the narrator of both games behave, one pulling you inside the narrative as chara while the other makes clear how you are an outsider as the player. It’s fascinating. Even if for me personally always felt like what deltarune is saying is not so much a your choices don’t matter bc they do, maybe not in the end of the journey but in the way there, the way chapter one ends if you attack all the monsters feels different than when you spare them, a normal route and snowgrave route definitely feel different, even if both end with kris doing.. whatever they are doing at the end of Ch2. If feels more of, the way you engage with the world will make your experience throughout it different even if it all leads to the same end. It’s a different kind of choice, one more subtle(? But definitely as present as in UT. Anyway enough rambling by my part. What I’m trying to say is that this video put a light on things I haven’t thought before. Makes me appreciate this lovely video games in a new way and for that I thank you. It’s very well put together.

[@whim165]

Started watching while drinking my coffee, but ended focusing more on the video lol. That was great. Another thing I like about the starting segment of Deltarune is that the vessel feels a little like a "persona". When I started the game, I put a joke, something that I feel represent me, but not my name, so I "choose" what I would be, like a persona, but then it asked about the creator, and I was like "... I guess I will put my name" and then, another him discarded my vessel, and to me, I felt stuck with my real name (I don't like using my real name lol). I think some of the segment was made to make the player feel similar, but I don't know if everyone will have this experience of "being stuck with their real name" like I felt. Well, I will praise the video again, since this video is great! That was great! Oh, and sorry for the big message

[@NotASpyReally]

Yeah lol what a troll. I agree with this except for me it wasn't so bad cause I have an internet name. I named the vessel "Jade" because that's what I chose when I played Undertale for the first time (it was just a random name I used for no reason, but it just stuck with me) and luckily I have an Internet name which I've been using for many years now (Kain) so I didn't use my real name, which is a good thing cause I don't like it either.

[@whim165]

@@NotASpyReally cool. I expected that not everyone would have this exactly experience but yeah, I thought it was interesting

[@thattimestampguy]

1:25 WHAT IS DELTARUNE'S MESSAGE? 3:12 NaraChara 4:58 Your choices matter, Your choices impact the world you touch. 6:21 Control 7:26 How is there a Save File before you save at all? 9:12 My Castle Town 10:04 _Another Him_ 11:04 "No one can choose who they are in this world." - Chris didn't want him to be You - You did not know Chris would be your vessel 12:32 The Vessel's Default: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Mind 13:18 Snowgrave - Wrongsav 15:47 WHO PULLS THE STRINGS? [why are you choosing destructive decisions?] 18:38 Susie free of control, but not influence

[@edy6303]

11:52 this actually makes a lot of sense when you remember that after the fight with queen she tells Noelle to "with your own power...choose the world that makes you happy"

[@amndmirk]

1:10 whats funny to me is that on the pictures are both andrew and jaru who are like. chocolate and avocado. completely different but combine perfectly for some reason

[@gabrote42]

Coming from the pinned comment! Thanks! I might timestamp further comments below 1:00 DR is actually a mix of the original, 2012 scripts and Undertale. It went under a rewrite of unknown scope after Undertale got funded. 2:32 Shoutout to the theory that made me a lore nut. Showed me that reason and evidence can dramatically shift how some elements of a story are experienced. I wouldn't be the archive diver I am now without it. 3:04 I had a lot of unpublished theories over the years, a few that ended up being right (I predicted that the SOUL disconnected from mainchara while dodging, and that was why you needed to moge the bullet board at Sans' fight. Confirmed with DR). One of those was that the music was ambient magic emissions being interpreted by mainchara's SOUL in a way you could understand, like with synesthesia. Would change depending on inhabitants' mood or state (why it slows in No Mercy, fewer denizens in areas). Saying it now because you reminded me of it. 4:39 Given Asgore's responses if you Talk to him after dying many times, I would guess yes. 5:41 Exactly 6:51 This is a response to dataminers. Originally, this text read a warning to hackers, pleading them to not publish their findings. This was paired with abc_123_aaa.ogg, an audio file that asked the same thing in a mocking tone, threatening to never make secrets again and blaming the dataminer. The text file was later replaced with this pledge, and abc_123_aaa.ogg was replaced by a glitched out laugh, followed by one of the original laughs from the file. abc_123_aaa.ogg is also thehoice blip used in room_gaster. I hope that helped! 11:17 This voice actually speaks completely different from HIM in Japanese. Different pronouns, characters and everything! Something you could look at 12:06 Still, remember that HIM also tells you that you "ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF PAIN AND SEIZURE" and that you will "ACCEPT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS FROM NOW ON". So they can't be all that different 12:43 This might lead to suboptimal play later, like with the default Rouxls fight being harder since you didn't pick Duck. Maybe having given the gift of Mind as default might bring problems 13:44 Also known in the game files as the Weird Route, or as the first finders called it: The Command Route. 16:36 Was a big uphill battle even after easy video versions came out. Only became close to widely accepted a little after CH1. I was made aware of it by the Judgement Boy videos 16:57 Good touch putting An Ending in the BG. I think that leitmotif represents the mosters' will qnd Determination. Exemplified with all their songs, especially this one and BAaTH 18:52 I wonder how this would have worked when Susie was still a Maya Fey ripoff. Riddle for the ages, probably. 19:53 I did and I loved it. Thanks!

[@haileyen353]

14:43 little detail that I apparently will not shut up about: in the japanese localization, Ralsei refers to Kris by name almost exclusively, without using any version of "you". However. Ralsei does use "you" in a small handful of places. The tutorial segment(s), when warning us about the ending, when in the jail, when asking if we think of him as our lackey, and in the game over screen (at least that's implied to be him, as he's the only character who uses that specific pronoun, "kimi"). These are all locations where he seems to be speaking directly to the player.

[@roysparkizay]

it's interesting to note that the final castle town save in chapter 2 has different dialogue about power depending on whether or not you've done the weird route

[@AlphaPizzadog]

I think one reason Kris's name shows up initially is because it is the "default". the backup file from before the player "gets connected" to Kris and makes their own saves. I think in the future, we probably won't be able to start from the middle of the game, but if we can, it will always say "Kris 0:00" because that represents the save file of right before the player connects to Kris. you know what would be REALLY interesting though? if kris was actually just another player who had been playing with the same character

[@Daniel-jk6ve]

Which would actually fit the established lore of Kris behaving in a bipolar and self-loathing manner for years. The player has joined with a character who has already been struggling for identity (with another player, “Gaster”, Kris’ own broken mind, or something else.) Regardless, a lot of characters struggle with who they are and who they think they should be (idealized self image, social pressures, family to live up to.) People like to be the hero of their own story, unfortunately this falls apart when faced with reality. Is Monster Kid wrong for not instantly forgiving Susie, was Susie wrong being bitter and suspicious of others, should Kris and/or the player obsess over fixing lost relationships or should they suffer in silence and become even more incapable of stable relationships? Peaceful or violent routes make small changes when we can play however we want; the in game characters support this by having different points of view about what the game is. Even in Undertale: we can stay in Ruins with Toriel, or never confront Asgore. We don’t have to patronize Papyrus or Alphys, we can behave like a child or a flirty adult, leave without freeing the monsters, we can free everyone and send Frisk back to their human family, etc. Toby always said pacifism/violence was only one tool in a story based game, the same is true for Deltarune. That is the beauty of the game, the stated plot matters little.

[@Yuti640]

Really great video! It’s gonna be very very interesting to see where Toby brings this theme of control in future chapters

[@NotASpyReally]

found you again Yuti

[@MysticSlime]

This was a great video! I really enjoyed you talking about the themes of Deltarune as a whole since I don't really see those covered too often relative to the amount of Deltarune content out there right now. I love the theories and speculation on whats actually going on, but I also think the analysis on the themes of the game are just as important to cover. Awesome work and I hope you keep making video essays in the future!

[@scientificallyaccuratespino]

Yo it’s mystic slime

[@qawsqawslol3997]

Snowgrave isn't an intontanal anagram for wrong save because no grave is a fan-made name for the thing it's actually called weird route

[@heehoo3685]

MORE FOOD, DELICOUSLY COOKED, AND INGREDIENTS AND METHODS LEARNT FROM CHEFS A BIT MORE EXPERIENCED THAN YOU or i guess if i have to talk like a normal person, i enjoyed this a lot!!!

[@Daniel-jk6ve]

Spampton? Is that you? hehe I almost flagged your comment as a bot. Well done?

[@TheRenaSystem]

Nice essay, would love to hear anything else you have to say about the game since I have a chronic Deltarune addiction that needs to be satiated lol

[@asocksual4910]

Awesome video! I wish there were more vids like this that tackle Deltarune from a literary and thematic analysis perspective rather than pure lore and speculation- that stuff is fun, but honestly I'm kinda burned out on that and I too don't really care who the Knight is. I've been thinking a lot about the whole player-kris situation lately and honestly... I feel awful about it. The idea that I'm ruining this kid's life just by existing at all and that they hate my for it kind of hurts, probably because the idea of accidentally taking advantage of someone and making them feel very uncomfortable without realizing it is one of my biggest real-life fears. I really do hope that we eventually get a way to talk to Kris directly, because I want to at least be able to tell them that I didn't choose this either and that I'm about as happy about it as they are. I want to be Kris's friend too, someday.

[@Dark_Peace]

I haven't watched the vidéo yet but I leave a like for the use of "diegetic". This word is underrated.

[@theoriginalchuckler9594]

Pretty solid video. Goes over the basic beats of your argument and does it well. Doesn't dawdle and is organised well, too. Overall I'd say it was pretty neat.

[@MattJDave]

Not dawdling is a surprisingly important facet of a good analysis video, imo. I remember trying to give constructive feedback regarding concision to JaruJaruJ, who just _loves_ to belabour and work a point up, and he... didn't take it well.

[@sirexilon49]

7:26 It could be that Kris isn't completely aware of saving and loading(or understanding whata they mean/how they work), it could just be something instinctive to them since the first save point in chapter 1 does say that "By second nature, you reach out, and..." before showing the SAVE UI.

[@ma.2089]

Regarding the save load feature (haven’t finished the vid yet, but I want to say it now JIC I forget) but when copying/deleting a file in the main menu, the voice (likely Gaster) treats a save file as it’s own world. Instead of time travel, it might just be a unique little pocket dimension, suspended in time. Probably cuz UT only has one save file, and DR has multiple. In UT you only go back and forth, but in DR you can hop to a different time and space.

[@shinygalaxy8837]

Fantastic video! I do believe you provided an excellent summary on the role of the Player in Deltarune. I think with all of the Player-related content we have in Deltarune, I imagine Toby Fox will do something extremely interesting and great with the Player in Deltarune. I really like how you mentioned that Susie is heavily resistant against the Player's will, I look forward to seeing that theme utilized more in the future.

[@WhirlyBeepBoops]

It would be interesting if there were, like, fan AUs based on different people being the player. Who would realize it first? Who would prod into what they're not supposed to see? Would this person talk with Kris, learn their wants and needs? Would they tell, for example, Susie and Noelle about the whole puppet situation? So many questions, so many potential answers to those questions...

[@janiradariasmorales7918]

If the game ends up having different paths one that I hope to see is that we befriend Kris and help them defeating the final boss, and you get a moment with Kris choosing what to say to them. Even if they don't forget our actions, even if they were good, not having control can take a toll. And ends with Kris, while not forgiving what we did, they understand that it wasn't our choice and we say our goodbyes as the soul fades away. I think that would be nice. ^^

[@doom64hunter]

"No one can choose who they are in this world." also sounds like something that could have been said by Susie. There are lots of hints that she suffered abuse throughout her life. It could be an out of context quote that she says during a downwards spiral, referring to herself and her horrible situation. There is precedent for this, as Undertale used very similar black screens for flashbacks to Chara and Asriel talking to each other. Perhaps this was a flash-forward?

[@ChiakiMotomaru]

This was really interesting and eye opening, I've never heard about diegetic control but I'm happy to have learned about it.

[@sawdunk1371]

Thank you SO much for making proper captions for this video! On way too many videos, I'm met with that dreaded 'auto-generated' and know that it's going to be inaccurate, so it's always a relief when someone puts in the effort to make sure their videos are easily accessible.

[@Pianovania]

Wow, this video is extremely underrated. The pacing is phenomenal as well as the music choices and it's honestly nice to step away from all the off the wall theories about the lore of the game and just take a moment to appreciate the apparent message so far and how it may develop in the future. While playing these first to chapters, Toby's writing is so good at sucking you in and the characters feel so fleshed out, even what our played character thinks and feels (who in most video games is either a blank slate or we have very little control over their story-related actions). Spamton NEO really hit me hard honestly, his body falling at the end of the fight and Kris's reaction viscerally disturbed me more than any 8/16-bit (idk the number, point is pixel art) game has any right to, and this is turning into a bit of my own ramble but overall I just wanted to voice my appreciation of this video. I hope to see more quality videos from you in the future on whatever subject you might pick!

[@JaruJaruJ]

1:11 Eyy! Dat's me! :D Good stuff! Was interesting to listen to. x)

[@TheFakeJake_UwU]

Personally, I think the text at 6:50 to some extent characterizes the relationship between us and Chara They are not really our partner (because that would mean we are equal) or necesaidly a puppet without ANY controll, but they are our servant and we are their master Oh, and (if it is a character from the game) it's definitely Chara, the only two characters who use "greetings" are Chara and Toriel, and this dialogue doesn't really fit Toriel

[@Violet_Crumbs]

Great video! jumpscared me with the gaster voice lol

[@jackatk]

0:42 Actually, there are unused graphics for chapters 8-10 in the files, so we might be in for a wild ride lol

[@mastty4453]

This is my first time on this channel, and god it is really underrated, subscribed.

[@catdownthestreet]

1:44 I love this point and it explains literally everything about my favorite theories across communities! I'm in a lot of theory communities and my favorite theories tend to be the ones that make sense thematically and personally- if it doesn't make sense for the characters, I generally won't like a theory. For example, in Genshin Impact, my least favorite theory is that Paimon is going to betray us at the end of the game. That's because it wouldn't make sense for a character who has repeatedly done her best to be kind to us and even calls herself our god of protection to just switch sides like that. In FNaF, my favorite theory is that Cassidy and CC are the same person. The spirit in Golden Freddy is just a kid named Cassidy Afton. I listened to someone discuss this recently and it makes the most sense by far! In Deltarune, I'd have to say that my favorite theory at the moment is Noelle Angel theory, with Alvin Knight coming in at a close second because that one makes me giggle. Enjoy theories based on what you think fits canon best, is what I'm trying to say. We're here to have fun after all!

[@fl3m1n9o4]

i was sure i'd see halfbreadchaos in the videos at 1:10 but i surprisingly didn't. you should definitely watch their videos, they're really good!

[@Vivat_Veritas]

I've actually only been recommended them recently and it's absolutely my style!

[@fluffymuffin4567]

This is legit one of my favorite deltarune videos of all time, GOOD JOB!!

[@darkraven951]

Saw your wip update in the server a bit ago and came running here. Good job dude

[@littlefuckingfreak]

This is totally underviewed for its quality so far. Great job man!

[@grianjuju9438]

I love this video and I can see you put a lot of effort into it, i can't wait for moee

[@user-lh7mt7zo7l]

I do think toby wants to make sure you know YOU are making the choices because people often used chara as a scapegoat for their genocide runs as if they didn't have a choice

[@malhekai]

16:29 this is such a funny image out of context omg

[@icelingbolt]

WOw! Just from your voice I assumed youd at least have a few thousand subs, how are you only at 199? EDIT: Oops im the 200th :3

[@NotASpyReally]

Your Gaster voice is great XD Dude this video is amazing I really hope your channel blows up in subscribers cause it will be deserved. 10/10 it's also a breath of fresh air cause, as you said, there's so many theory videos, and this is something else. Also this is one of the main reasons why I love both games so much. You said it doesn't, but for me the 4th wall _does_ break, at least in Undertale, because DETERMINATION is something that exists inside of the game _and_ outside of it. The player needs to have real determination to accomplish the challenges that the game has. My theory is that if you do pacifist, Frisk is really the one to SAVE Asriel, not you. That's why the SOUL simply "refuses" to die, because it's Frisk's DETERMINATION the one gluing it back together to continue. Meanwhile in the genocide run it's YOUR determination what's needed to thoroughly kill every monster and defeat Undyne and Sans, probably because Chara (which is the one agreeing with you at that moment) is dead (or ... Chara is just you? Considering you give them your name? idk it's confusing) so yeah it's you who has to do it all (and Frisk won't do anything like in pacifist). Some constructive criticism: 15:47 the music is a bit too loud here...

[@doom64hunter]

Another possibility of what Deltarune might be wanting to explore, is the question of how far the player is willing to go in order to try and change the outcome of the game, both in terms of complexity of what is required, and how much evil we will have to commit. The weird route in Chapter 2 already needs a very specific set of actions, and the very first thing you need to do -- that being, turning around and freezing absolutely everything on the path you just came through -- is something that nobody will ever do by accident. And the outcome is horrible: you traumatize Noelle, you kill a lot of Darkners and you murder Berdly in cold blood -- but what if it's ultimately necessary to achieve a different end? At what cost? And I'm getting the feeling that future weird routes, even secret bosses, are going to have more complicated requirements to be reached. Remember how Seam said we didn't have the Shadow Mantle, and that it's hence impossible to get the next shadow crystal without it? Since we definitely don't return to Castle Town at the start of Chapter 3, there seems to be no opportunity to go back and get it before we close Chapter 3's dark world. So what if the player has to "go back" in a meta sense? Maybe saving and loading, or using multiple save files, will actually become relevant in chapters 3-5. Because I'm thinking that the shadow mantle might be the one the King of Spades is wearing in his fight in Chapter 1. Perhaps new paths will be present once you progressed further in the game?

[@user-jl7cz2pe6d]

6:51 This message is actually a follow-up to another message. When UT first released, this message was basically Toby Fox asking everybody to NOT post any secrets that they've found in the files. Or else adding secrets like them would become pointless. And since everybody obviously did not do that, he updated that same message later on to say this instead. There was also a similar, more ominous audio file under the name of "ABC_123_a" (to force it to the top of the file list) that had a bunch of somewhat creepy text to speech voices warning to not share anything. Later on though, that message like this one was eventually updated to just be a snippet of those said voices' laughs.

[@maxiscool466]

honestly, i liked the way you explained everything in this video

[@LocalLialec]

that was nice, thanks for making this

[@IrvingIV]

We will watch your career... with _great_ interest.

[@intangiblematter_misc]

This is an excellent video essay how do you only have 284 subscribers

[@itsniqilisitsme4701]

Finally, this is the type of channel I needed

[@TheTUNEKE]

Awesome video! You should continue this youtube channel

[@tinaf2542]

Amazing video and very insightful! From your analysis I feel like you would enjoy The Art of Game Design by Jesse Schell which talked about ways to look at game design. Anyway keep it up and I look forward to what you put out next!!

[@darjeelinngg]

extremely cool!

[@thestone7600]

great video, i hope you'll be getting more views :)

[@loquenderovalencia2003]

im like stupidly stupid and I read “Dietetic Control” instead and I expected some shitpost thing talking about how some characters are on diet and how that affects lore

[@sagacious03]

Great analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@Puffausten]

Andrew Cunningham recommended this to me. This should be very very interesting.

[@ahmadsab_]

You earned a sub

[@FenLupimo]

My castle town Your best friend funny how Toby KNOWS when to use You and My in narrative

[@joshuabowman4702]

Good video. Came from Cunningham himself

[@valhund2629]

“It’s probably the 12 hours of analysis videos I’ve watched over the course of the last few days” Buddy how dare you call me out on how I got here.

[@swampy725]

1:09 is it weird that I've already watched 99% of these videos already

[@Jay-ys2cf]

Dude you made such an amazing video then disappeared off, come back!

[@Vivat_Veritas]

I’m actually working on another script at the moment, hoping to have it done by the end of next week!! I really appreciate the support

[@noodles24601]

It honestly boggles my mind when people seemingly consider Kris/Frisk/Chara as blank slate characters you're meant to project yourself onto fully. Like with Frisk and Chara the game does lean into those expectations at first so I can understand how people may have initially come to that conclusion, but in Deltarune the fact Kris is an independent character from you is a major theme like youre saying. Like the game explicitly tells you this pretty early on.

[@asuka376]

19:49 Did you put a lot of LOVE? Hmmm... Interesting.

[@asrieldreemurr777]

Howdy!

[@Crust_Crease]

7:27 Wasn't this changed in a patch?

[@Violet111]

Nope, it's still there. But you can only see it if you're on your very first run of the game (after you override Kris's file for the first time, from then on it'll just start as EMPTY)

[@Crust_Crease]

@@Violet111 ooooooohh ok. Thank you.

[@Matias-fh2hf]

I believe chara is meant to be the player,chara changed what they say on what you do because they are you and they'd persive the world different depending on your morals.their name is not a pun unlike others (Example: toriel,tutorial) instead being character which is just what they are because thats the blank slate of what they are, they are named after you because they are you,you wanted to kill all the monsters, and in genocide you do it again,in pacifist frisk is the one in control thats why they tell asriel that they are frisk instead of whatever you named chara.

[@xplode09]

turns out i am the 500th sub lmao

[@Snukkuri]

Thinking about this, when I played Deltarune I chose dialogue choices that Kris would (probably) say even if it didnt matter as much

[@society1876]

oh also sorry for the double comment but the weird text file that says its your humble servant used to be a warning to not dig into the game's files, it changed to that after the game got big

[@HxH2011DRA]

So what I got from this is that the knight is the goner got it

[@CharaViolet]

Is there any actual, concrete, indisprovable evidence that the player exists in deltarune tho

[@Daniel-jk6ve]

I thought the reasoning behind that was in this video? The video mentions the intro to the game has “the other voice/Gaster” explicitly speak to the audience about finding a character to control. The audience is making choices and experiencing the story, therefore we are “players.” Possible evidence is Kris being referred to as “They”, and the player being referred to as “You,” usually when an action is taken without giving Kris the decision. Example: Kris calling for Their friends to no avail; You call for Noelle. Other characters say they hear a different voice whenever the player makes commands. The way I see it, Toby created Gaster/entity in the void, who (for whatever reason) allows us a limited influence on a fictional world inside of which Kris and others have their own limited influence on fictional dark worlds. In other words, Gaster enables players to have a hero/villains journey on one level, Kris & Gang on another, the Darkners on another except the characters are seemingly aware of this. This is very similar to the separate but still aware “real” and “fantasy” worlds within The Never Ending Story and Chronicles of Narnia. The characters develop and have their real world relationships effected through the events of the fantasy world. Characters from the real world even die for good in the fantasy world. Sound familiar.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

The fact Kris rips the SOUL out and tosses it into a cage (where you can move the SOUL around, but not Kris at that moment...) proves that the player is a separate character from Kris.

[@CharaViolet]

​@@TheSkyGuy77 That doesn't prove that the player _exists as a character at all,_ though. Which is what I asked. Like, yes, IF the player is a character AT ALL then that's an argument to be made, but you've posed no reason to believe we are, especially when it's already implied that Kris removing their SOUL is something they already did prior to the game− so it's NOT about a struggle for control or a dislike for player, or anything related to us. It is a perfectly reasonable thing to assume that Kris's body is shared with another entity that can take full control if Kris's SOUL isn't present, and we simply control the SOUL because Kris is the playable protagonist and that's their SOUL.

[@minecalftree1838]

nice video, but your closed captions don't match what you say vocally in significant ways (for instance your short definition of diegetic)

[@Vivat_Veritas]

Ah yeah, I used a slightly old version of the script for the subtitles, I'll get it fixed. Thanks for pointing it out!

[@society1876]

oh my fucking god i watched the andrew stream where he says diagetic as many times as jaru says dubious and you're saying it too why is god cruel

[@user-rl4uz4ek5o]

Let's be honest. We will still control Chris, no matter what lectures you give about morality and the imposition of the will. I know it, you know it, even Toby himself knows it.

[@mimszanadunstedt441]

Diegetic is a meme word now

[@willsmith5935]

Sid

[@Mark-fc7tu]

Toby Fox is the one in charge of the narratives. That's why those narratives are only as important you think they are, since any illusion of freedom he offers can be yanked away when he thinks it's funny. Disagree with the fandom consensus and people will use that as excuse to cyberbully people just for disagreeing with their theories.

[@danidkg4071]

i named myself "JOEMAMA". now my town is named "JOEMAMAtown". best decision ever.