Diesel Engines in EMD F7 Locomotive

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EdisonTechCenter TechCenter

EdisonTechCenter TechCenter

Күн бұрын

'Tour of this classic 1940s diesel-electric locomotive. Part one, Brent Evans of Royal Gorge Route Railroad shows us all the major parts of the 16 cylinder, 1500 HP diesel engine and explains a bit of how it works. See the governor, fuel pump, water pump, overspeed lever, and more. Also see the head end power generator: Detroit Diesel 6V92 which produces 300 kV.

Пікірлер: 101
6 жыл бұрын
I love classic EMD locomotives...all of them. Great to see this beautiful old girl still in operating condition. Sad that so many were scrapped. These are machines that would run 100 years with the right maintenance.
@TheLazyKC
@TheLazyKC 6 жыл бұрын
fastold carz they keep me running in Cuba
@Creeperboy099
@Creeperboy099 6 жыл бұрын
Neat that there is actually an engine room you can actually walk into on these F series locomotives
@TheFRiNgEguitars
@TheFRiNgEguitars 8 жыл бұрын
Simple, reliable, a great piece of machinery!
@bcstechnologylimited896
@bcstechnologylimited896 7 жыл бұрын
A couple of errors in the video worth mentioning (with some already having been mentioned). • The 16V-567 prime mover is not a Detroit Diesel product. It is a purpose-designed locomotive engine that was developed at General Motors' Cleveland research center in the 1930s as a replacement for the older and less-reliable Winton 201A engine that powered the first generation Electromotive Corporation locomotives. The son of Charles F. "Boss" Kettering was the lead engineer on the 567 development project and published a detailed paper in 1951 that chronicled the engine's development. • Fuel is delivered to the unit injectors (one per cylinder), not the "rack." The "rack" is a mechanism that controls the stroke of the fuel injectors, thus varying how much fuel is injected at the start of the power stroke. The rack is roughly analogous to the throttle valve of a carburetor, but only affects fuel rate (air flow into a Diesel engine is not throttled except as an emergency stop measure). The injector racks are linked to a "layshaft" that runs the length of the cylinder bank on each side of the engine. The layshafts, in turn, are linked to the governor, which is what normally regulates engine power and RPM. The lever seen when the narrator talks about fuel delivery is actually called a "layshaft manual control lever" or "layshaft lever." It can be used to manually override the governor during engine shutdown or bringing an engine back on-line while underway, and in theory, could be used to overspeed the engine. However, the engine overspeed trip would prevent any damage from occurring if someone tried such a stunt. • Full throttle operation runs the engine at 800 RPM, not 975. Idle speed is 275 RPM. Overspeed trip occurs at 910 RPM. Later iterations of the 567 upped these numbers slightly, but these were the RPM limits of the 567B engine installed in most F7s. • All EMD powerplants are classified as medium speed Diesel engines, not low speed. Also note that the two Roots positive-displacement blowers fitted to the engine are not superchargers, as their output is only slightly above atmospheric pressure. Their function is to charge the cylinders with fresh air and force out (scavenge) spent combustion gases after each power stroke. The engine cannot run unless the blowers are functional.
@Romans--bo7br
@Romans--bo7br 6 жыл бұрын
BCS Technology Limited..... Very well stated. Of course with the advent of the series 645 prime mover in the mid 1960's (64?) they optioned the engines with a single thermatic clutch driven axial flow turbo, and though there was initial "issues" with the clutch drive (clutch material, basically) causing some class 1's to derate (go back to NA configuration with Roots blowers) while EMD sorted out the issue, which of course they did when they started utilizing Ceramic clutches to deal with the heat. It's amazing to myself how So Many people in the world of high performance gas, alcohol and nitro engines (ie; drag racing, street rods, etc, etc, etc) keep referring to roots type blowers (positive-displacement, as you so aptly pointed out) as "superchargers" when they are, in fact... Not. I was quite involved in various classes of drag racing (front and rear engined dragsters ["rails"]) for about 20 years, and spent a lot of time trying to explain to other racers the difference between a positive-displacement blower (air mover/pump) and an actual "supercharger" that compresses a given amount of air mass between its intake and exhaust ports producing actual boosted air pressure, versus air that becomes "pressurized" between the blower and the cylinders strictly due to back-pressure because the blower is pumping a greater amount of air mass faster than the engine can ingest it as well as actual cylinder capacity... resulting in a "false boost". I guess it doesn't help though, when everyone has been constantly bombarded through ads by all the different manufacturers of high performance parts habitually calling the roots type blowers.... "superchargers"!... ever since Barney Navarro mounted and V-belt drove a 3-71 blower (came off a 3-71 Detroit [then known as GM Diesel Power] from a WW2 landing craft, on his roadster he ran on "the flats" with a destroked Ford flathead. Boss Kettering (Charles) was the first CEO of GM Diesel Power during it's development years.... and I personally studied Diesel Engine Design & Theory for four years, the last three of which was under P. Nicholas who had just retired from R&D at GM Diesel Power (Detroit Diesel after 1965)... and who took it upon himself to personally "tutor" me in the intricacies of GM Diesels (2-cycle, of course).... that was back in the 60's from 1963 to 1967. I have an 8x10 B&W hanging over my desk here, of he, Boss Kettering and one other R&D Engineer taken just after they fired up their prototype for the first time (Nov. 1938)... and it was a 4-71, but as we know... it was the 6-71 that first went into production in 1939. Thanks for you narrative... well put.
@williamjones4483
@williamjones4483 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for posting this. I always wondered if Detroit Diesel had anything to do with the building of these engines. And of course we know that General Motors spun off EMD in 2005 and it has changed hands a few times to end up basically being owned by Caterpillar who is now installing their own manufactured engines in the locomotives.
@williamjones4483
@williamjones4483 6 жыл бұрын
Wikipedia says that EMD had production runs of the 645 prime mover from 1965-1983 with some limited runs through the 90's. Not sure what that means exactly, unless they had some customers that still continued use of the 645 engine.
@brianburns7211
@brianburns7211 4 жыл бұрын
This engine is definitely not exactly a Detroit Diesel, but is was developed as part of the GM 2 stroke diesel development of the 1930s. I have read that there was collaboration between the devisions in the development.
@jacquesblaque7728
@jacquesblaque7728 7 жыл бұрын
EMD 567 engines are NOT Detroit Diesels, but from separate GM division- Cleveland Diesel. Also, fuel does NOT go to the "rack." It's fed to the unit injectors, one per cylinder, nestled between the exhaust valves. Injector timing & output is controlled by one rack per cyl bank, and actuation is by lobe on the one camshaft per cyl bank.
@WideWorldofTrains
@WideWorldofTrains 9 жыл бұрын
Great video, my fav diesel engine
@jackkreighbaum783
@jackkreighbaum783 3 жыл бұрын
I was able to get a cab ride several years ago on this engine. I forgot the engineer's name, but he was great.
@jamesrussell6123
@jamesrussell6123 2 жыл бұрын
F7s is my favorite model of the locomotive
@peterzpictstube
@peterzpictstube 9 жыл бұрын
Nice to see a video abut locomotives that is technically correct!
@ralfis1234
@ralfis1234 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you afor the video. I work in eastern europe as engineers assistant. Due huge ammounts of work our old ass 2M62 locomotives were withdrawn from the conservation. IT was produced since 70's to 90's and basicly it's all the same. DC/DC two stroke diesel with the blower, generator works as starter, priming, filter grid, even the governor its all the same. Now i get what those guys were copying :D
@jdillon8360
@jdillon8360 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thanks for posting.
@FordGTGTE
@FordGTGTE Жыл бұрын
The EMD F7 is by far my favorite
@blaueleiter
@blaueleiter Жыл бұрын
great! thanks for a pretty qualified edutainment!
@adamdonnelly3912
@adamdonnelly3912 5 жыл бұрын
These type of diesels are the only ones I like scrap all the other diesels classic EMD diesels and steam locomotives for the win
@williamjones3871
@williamjones3871 9 жыл бұрын
WAS a division of General Motors. GM spun off EMD in 2005.
@McRocket
@McRocket 7 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Your x-ray diagram was very impressive (to me), btw.
@Bruno.Trains
@Bruno.Trains 9 жыл бұрын
Amazing creativity, superb. !!
@aliarmaan508
@aliarmaan508 9 жыл бұрын
wonderful and you explain nice sir
@RyansColoradoRailProductions
@RyansColoradoRailProductions 6 жыл бұрын
Wow you chose the Royal Gorge engines? That’s in Canon City, where my grandparents live! I’ve ridden that train many times since the age of 2! I live an hour northeast of Canon, in Colorado Springs.
@russellbrown7028
@russellbrown7028 9 жыл бұрын
Typical of the tribe of simple, reliable, first generation diesels. Solid engineering that just kept working.
@brettmcleod5551
@brettmcleod5551 8 жыл бұрын
EMD locomotives rule. All the others just don't measure up.
@alfyxgames2271
@alfyxgames2271 7 жыл бұрын
What about ALCo?
@Xyb3rTeCh
@Xyb3rTeCh 6 жыл бұрын
And GE's?
@eoinpkav152
@eoinpkav152 6 жыл бұрын
Intel & Nvidia SUXXZZZ!!!, HAHAHHAHAHA
@eoinpkav152
@eoinpkav152 6 жыл бұрын
Emd’s are the best because you can still find parts for them easily. Alcos are a bitch to find and the older the GE the harder it is to find parts. I might be the only one in the US who has access to a gasket to a GE44 tonner fuel filter... it’s stressful.
@crr311sux5
@crr311sux5 4 жыл бұрын
@@Xyb3rTeCh turbo failure
@Tchristman100
@Tchristman100 6 жыл бұрын
The auxiliary engine sure looked like an 8V to me.
@robertpoudrette4483
@robertpoudrette4483 4 жыл бұрын
It is, just counted the exhaust exits and there were 4 on this side...
@emdmanSpaziani
@emdmanSpaziani 7 жыл бұрын
Unless older EMD's are different from newer ones (GP38's 40's ) etc, the main generator does not start the prime mover, they have 2 starter motors on the fireman's side of the engine where the main generator bolts to the engine, they basically look like supersized GM starter motors and have a time limit of about 20 seconds before they heat up and trip a relay, then they need about 2 minutes to cool and reset., but it was still a good video.
@bcstechnologylimited896
@bcstechnologylimited896 7 жыл бұрын
Prior to the development of the AR10 traction alternator in the early 1960s, all EMD locomotives were equipped with a commutated main generator that could be used as a motor to crank the prime mover. As the AR10's output is rectified by silicon diodes, rather than commutated, it cannot be used to crank the prime mover, necessitating the use of the two starting motors.
@emdmanSpaziani
@emdmanSpaziani 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for that information, I did not know that about the older first generation ( I assume ) locomotives.
@Romans--bo7br
@Romans--bo7br 6 жыл бұрын
emdman1959 Spaziani..... "they basically look like supersized GM starter motors".... the starter motors you're referring to (from GM's Delco Division) are actually what were used (and still, currently are) on diesel engines in semis, except of course... only one is needed, not two. I think EMD should have worked with GM's Delco division to actually develop a starter motor(s) that would have been up to the task better, rather than just taking "off the shelf" starters for much smaller diesels, cubic inch wise - not to mention turning Much Less rotating mass and weight, like they did.
@williamjones4483
@williamjones4483 6 жыл бұрын
General Motors utilized as many "off the shelf" parts as they could to save costs. In their locos with roll down windows they used the window regulator from some models of their cars. The Aerotrain used Oldsmobile windshields in the locomotive and they used GM bus bodies for the rolling stock. Who knows what else they used.
@moestrei
@moestrei 4 жыл бұрын
So if the gen is the starter where is the cranking energy coming from?
@adamdonnelly3912
@adamdonnelly3912 5 жыл бұрын
EMDs are the only diesels that I like
@GIGABACHI
@GIGABACHI 7 жыл бұрын
Good explanation.
@LifeUnscripted719
@LifeUnscripted719 4 жыл бұрын
I love the 403
@joshbenton4080
@joshbenton4080 2 жыл бұрын
Train crews often called these locomotives, "covered wagons" and were not well liked whenever they were used in switching operations.
@alexsbikesandmotors
@alexsbikesandmotors 10 жыл бұрын
awesome video!
@North_Texas_Railfan
@North_Texas_Railfan 5 жыл бұрын
I’ve had a carbide on 403
@marktufts7756
@marktufts7756 6 жыл бұрын
got to operate the royal gauge Scenic railroad 403
@railbus5
@railbus5 9 жыл бұрын
Modern road truck diesels only turn 1800 rpms. They are more efficient at lower rpms. The only road diesels that run 2500 rpms are the 550 cummins or some of the small car diesel engines. Many stationary diesels run 2500 or more rpms.
@petarmiletic997
@petarmiletic997 8 жыл бұрын
railbus5 Yeah the peak power is at around 1800-2000 rpm, max speed is around 2200 rpm. Smaller displacement engines rev more so 6-7 liters 6 cylinders max out around 2500 rpm. Not just the cummins 5.9, pretty much all of them do: Mercedes OM926, Volvo D7, MAN D0836 etc. Higher rpm might not bring more power but is used when you activate the exhaust brake and need more braking power.
@kleetus92
@kleetus92 7 жыл бұрын
Pickup class engines will spin to just under 4000 rpm, granted peak torque is well below that.
@seabulls69
@seabulls69 7 жыл бұрын
While we're nit picking, the EMD 567 engine is a "medium speed" diesel. The true low speed diesels would be like the wartsila sulzers found in container ships. Maximum rpm would be around 100 - 110 rpm . As opposed to the 900 - 1050 rpm maximum of the Caterpillar, EMD, and GE locomotive diesels.
@RRIA_America
@RRIA_America 9 жыл бұрын
This is actually a phase 4 F3-A all it means is its the last year span the f3 locomotives. The phase 4 where 1948 or 1949 to 1950. The phase 4 f3-A look a lot like the f7 locomotive.
@RRIA_America
@RRIA_America 9 жыл бұрын
Where the water pumps replaced. The original ones on this one are usually silver or black or grey
@K-Effect
@K-Effect 4 жыл бұрын
On average this engine makes around 90+ horsepower and 625+ foot pounds of torque per cylinder or 567ci. Could you imagine having a 567ci motor making 90 hp at 625 foot pounds of torque, that would be a lazy engine. It would also run 1,000,000 miles. I still can't get over 567 ci and 90 hp. I think my math is close enough, it was next to impossible to find the torque of this engine
@TheMax0005
@TheMax0005 2 жыл бұрын
It's me or unlike dash 2 locomotives, the F7 doesn't have cooling radiators? How the water is cooled?
@khadijagwen
@khadijagwen 8 жыл бұрын
I found reference to a diesel locomotive in 1914 but can find no pictures of it.
@hughvane
@hughvane 5 жыл бұрын
Apparently the first , quote: "useful" diesel locomotive was used in Kiev in 1924. McKeen produced a petrol-powered railcar in 1911. The Swiss tinkered with diesel-electric for about ten years prior to 1924 , but there appear to be no remaining examples - or images. Unusual.
@burgegerm7878
@burgegerm7878 5 жыл бұрын
​@@hughvane I am sort of surprised that it took so long for diesels locomotives to take hold. They had successful diesel electric submarines in the 1910's, so I would think it would be easier to apply similar technology in a locomotive. Even today, a lot of locomotive engines have marine applications. I think even the engine type in this locomotive was used in marine applications. One thing I do recall reading was that the price per horsepower for constructing a diesel was many times more than constructing a similarly powered steam locomotive, so that may have been a factor.
@U2Jaime1317
@U2Jaime1317 7 жыл бұрын
I understood about 50% of what he explained. And im a car guy. I also understand that... these things are twin supercharged?
@seabulls69
@seabulls69 7 жыл бұрын
The EMD 567 series can have one or two blowers. And, it's primary function is more to "scavenge" the cylinders of exhaust while blowing in clean air than to actually "supercharge". Search "two stroke diesel" for more. It's really quite interesting. Even more interesting are the later models that use a gear driven turbocharger instead of a roots type blower. At a certain throttle setting the gear drive gives way (de-clutched) to the exhaust turbine with takes over driving the air compressor impeller.
@arkie74
@arkie74 5 жыл бұрын
those 12 thumbs down, are Alco fans!!! lol all tho, it would have been cool if they had used an alco c 420....
@liddell157
@liddell157 9 жыл бұрын
Cool video but you sound like your saying ritz blower but I think you mean roots blower 😏
@hughvane
@hughvane 5 жыл бұрын
Now let's see a video of diesel-hydraulic locomotives.
@Z-Bart
@Z-Bart 4 жыл бұрын
Fire it up. 👍
@RailroadEngineer123
@RailroadEngineer123 Жыл бұрын
Wow that is not the original control stand of this unit.
@richardfooshee7709
@richardfooshee7709 9 жыл бұрын
I noticed a modern brake valve on this unit. Did they replace the original?
@FourDollaRacing
@FourDollaRacing 3 жыл бұрын
Aren't you special!?
@jawharp1992
@jawharp1992 7 жыл бұрын
Great video, but you gotta clean that camera lens!
@thebops4180
@thebops4180 4 жыл бұрын
I had no idea what he was talking about LOL.
@pooindaloo6049
@pooindaloo6049 4 жыл бұрын
I wonder if you could swap that v16 into a miata? 🤔
@robertpoudrette4483
@robertpoudrette4483 4 жыл бұрын
Yes you may drop one in a Miata, easily or on the Miata...
@chrisfitzmaurice7484
@chrisfitzmaurice7484 8 жыл бұрын
"Two cycle"... but it has valves?
@Commodore1702
@Commodore1702 8 жыл бұрын
the valves are just for exhaust.
@yo6488
@yo6488 7 жыл бұрын
Yes exhaust valves
@AddableStone13
@AddableStone13 5 жыл бұрын
I've seen that locomotive in real life.
@milad_srt6841
@milad_srt6841 3 жыл бұрын
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@martinandersson5278
@martinandersson5278 8 жыл бұрын
Show me what truck engine that do 2500rpm!?
@kleetus92
@kleetus92 7 жыл бұрын
8V92 is in that ballpark, 2400 maybe...
@kleetus92
@kleetus92 7 жыл бұрын
Not to mention what's in pickup trucks, they'll do just under 4k wide open.
@martinandersson5278
@martinandersson5278 7 жыл бұрын
kleetus92 well small pickups yes But big trucks with 4litres and up no
@martinandersson5278
@martinandersson5278 7 жыл бұрын
kleetus92 and I am taking about modern engines Not any 2-stroke old crap
@mothman-jz8ug
@mothman-jz8ug 7 жыл бұрын
International DT series will run well past 2500, or at least some of models did.
@alfredodorado2821
@alfredodorado2821 8 жыл бұрын
wheight?
@AlarakTheHighLord
@AlarakTheHighLord 7 жыл бұрын
It has superchargers?
@jirkacvrcek
@jirkacvrcek 7 жыл бұрын
Zergling yes because it's a 2 stroke
@jacquesblaque7728
@jacquesblaque7728 7 жыл бұрын
NO. No supercharger. Roots blowers are for mechanical scavenging, as sorta explained. Exhaust valves open before induction ports are uncovered. Then air blown into manifold enters ports for next cycle, pumping out remaining exhaust gases. Easily researched. Don't confuse with blown 4-strokes.
@AMV12S
@AMV12S 3 жыл бұрын
"567 inches" 🤔 "Per cylinder" 😨
@davehughes2424
@davehughes2424 8 жыл бұрын
I'd take a J class N&W 4-8-4 over any multi unit 567 lash up you got any day.
@williamjones4483
@williamjones4483 6 жыл бұрын
There is no comparison between steam and diesel. Apples to oranges. Each one has its good point and its bad points.
@ironmatic1
@ironmatic1 4 жыл бұрын
@@williamjones4483 Steam has no good points lol
@emersonfogaca7414
@emersonfogaca7414 7 жыл бұрын
Tem QUE RENOVAR ESSE LUGAR VELHO PINTAR DE BRANCO MELHORAR A CABINE ESTÁ MUITO FEIO NÃO ADIANTA PINTAR POR FORA E DENTRO FICA FEIO OLHA QUE BONITO A PÇ NOVA PINTADA.
@eileenwysocki8693
@eileenwysocki8693 4 жыл бұрын
E wysocki 412 639 5359 train 48 15238! 21;Riverside court blawnox pgh PA ; hi northfolk southern are no 1 rail road the trains rail road I love the job they did at center a e crossing ; engineers like Mike he's nice good looking I love to know him better good video about engines celiners ; water pump I remember those big engines God help anyone getting hit car or person propably not too many lived through it right ?
@jotarokujo4787
@jotarokujo4787 4 жыл бұрын
Eileen Wysocki are you ok?
@c.c.hiliner4753
@c.c.hiliner4753 6 жыл бұрын
The 92 series Detroits just aren't as solid as the 71s
@robertpoudrette4483
@robertpoudrette4483 4 жыл бұрын
And the one he showed was an 8V92 not a 6V92 as he said.
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