Differences between a Baritone and a Euphonium

[@AKCEuph]

What are some stories you have from times when people mix up what a baritone and a euphonium are?

[@ericheidner6355]

The confusion still goes on to this day--Norlan Bewley's excellent "Octubafest" books have T.C. parts labeled "Baritone" and B.C. parts labeled "Euphonium."

[@blakelong9879]

When beginning band students ask me what a email is, I usually reply, "It's like a baby tuba." Then, when I get a really confused face, I go into more detail about the instrument.

[@_havien3]

when i first moved to the school i go to now my teacher put me as a euph and not a tube (i was a tuba before but the euph we had sucked) but she referred to it as a baritone (and still does) so ive been calling my euph a baritone for like 3 years now

[@nathanielnester9886]

Really nice video. at first I thought you were standing next to 2 gigantic tubas

[@laurelhemmer799]

Thanks! I didn't know the tubing was what made it different. Now if anyone asks, I can explain to them it's the same as the difference between trumpet and cornet

[@AKCEuph]

Laurel Hemmer glad it helped 😎

[@nlhn638]

The bell is also ever so slightly different.

[@adariusparker6027]

I had always referred to my instrument as a baritone because that’s what my middle school band director called it and all of my music fundamentals books referred to my instrument as well. At my very first summer band camp at the University Of Tampa one of my instructors got very upset with me for referring to my instrument as a baritone then spent the remainder of our lesson explaining the difference between the two. Very nice video! Thanks!

[@AKCEuph]

That must have been before I taught the that camp. Thank you for checking out the video!

[@trumpetgodfather96]

Great video and explanation!! If only someone would do as good of a job explaining the difference between a cornet and trumpet.

[@AKCEuph]

Terry Wood I bet we could make that happen...

[@paulroutledge4923]

Trent Hamilton has a video of the differences between the cornet and trumpet kzbin.info/www/bejne/j522imiZadyGjpI

[@majcrash]

Very similar difference. Cornet is conical, trumpet is cylindrical.

[@mal2ksc]

The difference in internal dimensions are not all that substantial between trumpets and cornets. Flugelhorns are the true conical high brass instrument, most similar to miniature euphoniums.

[@valbastiancontraio2795]

@@majcrash a cornet it's only slightly more conical, a soprano flugelhorn is really conical

[@TheJH1015]

Fun thing: in the Dutch and Belgian 'fanfare' wind band the baritone and euphonium serve slightly different roles, and the baritone is actually solely written in treble clef! Euph can be written in both treble and bass clef.

[@deoradh]

Both can (and are) written in TC and BC, in the US. In a pinch, TC-reading players (eg, those transferring from, say, trumpet) can also substitute tenor sax parts. Doing so, I'll say, is generally a lot more fun (in the sense of having a greater chance of playing the melody) than being stuck with a slightly rewritten tuba um-pah part or (if you're lucky) trombone.

[@robgale1183]

Hey Aaron! I am surprised to see that you created a video on this subject. You may remember me from USF HOT band from around the years of 2010-2012. I am starting to introduce my friend into the brass family by lending him a student version euphonium and I wanted to find a video showing the difference between the two types. When I clicked your video I did not even realize that it was you until I saw your face. It is so wonderful that you are doing so well in your musical career. How have you been since those years of marching band?

[@aaaahlw]

I play euphonium but at my middle school they just call it a baritone EVEN THOUGH it is a euphonium

[@AKCEuph]

First Name Last Name I feel like you’re thumbnail describes how I feel about that 😑

[@leilah.m.8795]

Sir Almonds that is the exact same at my middle school 😂

[@firebearva]

Thanks for the video. I have played both in HS, college and the military. Aaron I never saw, or played Euphonium until brass ensemble in college.

[@MeadFan]

For those who might be wondering... Euphonium has conical tubing. Baritone has cylindrical tubing. But what kind of tubing does a Valve Trombone have?

[@AKCEuph]

James Meyer I’m gonna let this sit for awhile 😎

[@varatic644]

James Meyer cylindrical

[@MeadFan]

Cornel Botnaru What makes both cylindrical instruments so distinctly different in sound? This also begs the question: on a double-bell euphonium, is the smaller bell closer to a baritone or valve trombone?

[@majcrash]

What's the difference, other than how the tubing is wrapped?

[@majcrash]

All trombones are cylindrical.

[@apolloskyfacer5842]

*Keep it simple* The Bb 'Baritone' is actually a TENOR HORN in Bb. The Euphonium is a TENOR TUBA in Bb. The tonalities of both instruments are the same (Bb Tenor) (* Note that the brass band 'Tenor' Horn in Eb is actually an Eb Alto Horn)

[@charlietuba]

There is a great section on "The Baritone Horn" in the booklet "'Les' BRASS" by Alan Raph and Bucky Milam. "Statements like 'I play the bartone horn'… and question like 'What's the difference between a baritone horn and a euphonium?'… are sure-are conversion stoppers.

[@Saxman_sam]

Wholesome content indeed mr.campbell

[@AKCEuph]

Hey Sam!

[@rachelguzzo1602]

I call my euphonium a Bari since I’m too lazy to type out euphonium. Peak of human evolution

[@calebjohnson3777]

errrrm, euph? Same number of letters and less syllables XD

[@stock.wheel.shawty]

euph, yoof, eupho, etc.

[@jeovanythomas3106]

OOf😓

[@ericheidner6355]

Well done! I'd love to see this presentation expanded to include the discussion/comparison of the Bavarian-style (i.e. oval-shaped) Bb tenorhorns, baritones, and euphoniums--some people claim that some of those instruments should actually be classified as bass fluegelhorns, and I think there is some evidence to justify that line of reasoning. And one more thing--you might want to check your spelling of "stories" at 5:52... ;)

[@AKCEuph]

Eric Oh man I didn’t catch that! I make all these graphics that sometimes I let some things slip. Oh well it’s up 😂 Those subjects would be pretty cool to get into. I personally don’t have a ton of experience with those instruments or loads of availability to get my hands on them but I would love to try to figure something out.

[@ericheidner6355]

The reason I bring up the European horns is that I play in an Oktoberfest tuba band that uses them, and I have a few of my own. It seems the bore size is the main factor, with the Bb tenor horn being even smaller than a baritone's bore (picture something like a trombonium and you get the idea)--even American bands had Bb tenor horns back at the turn of the 1900s. There's lots of great videos with those oval horns--here's a good one to give you an idea: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6jadJRohJJjfrM

[@majcrash]

Great video! Some might mistake this as a baritone vs euphonium though, because one has a 4th valve. They appear to be a 3 and 4 valve version of the same instrument.

[@deoradh]

Picked up a VF Czerveny 4+1 rotary euph a couple years ago and spec'd a wide bore. Couple with a wide-throated mouthpiece and it takes all the air I can give it -- which is a bit exhausting -- but dang the sound is rich as treacle, and the valving crisp.

[@jerrybyers2172]

Thanks! You answered all of my questions.

[@drumcorpsinprogres]

Thanks for this clear video. My son hopes to get the change to play euphonium at The Acadamy (DCI) in 2022, but plays baritone at Jubal (DCE) now.

[@hankkingsley2976]

Like there's any difference...Baritone Euphonium, whatever. You play one, you can play em all including The Greatest Low Brass of All King Silver Sousaphone.

[@bloxxer_boy]

Not exactly a name swap between baritone and euphonium but rather it was getting called a different name. Many many many *many* times throughout my time in middle school/high school band, it would be called the little tuba. I mean it isn't *wrong* per say, but it isn't right either lol. If only euphs and baris could get more recognized outside of the wind ensemble haha. Great video by the way, it taught me a lot!!

[@charlietuba]

Why is it called a baritone horn when it has the same range as a tenor trombone?

[@MeadFan]

charlietuba I wonder the same thing about TENOR trombone and BASS trombone, considering the bass trombone just has an extra valve to reach lower, and a bigger shank. But the euphonium, on the other hand, whether it has 3 or 4 valves, large or medium shank, it's still called a euphonium. But with a trombone however, it gets named differently if it has an extra valve/trigger (instead of just 1), as well as a bigger shank. (Euphonium with 3-valves and medium shank) + (another valve, and large shank) = Euphonium (Tenor trombone with an F-trigger, medium shank) + (another valve, and large shank) = Bass trombone 🤔

[@mal2ksc]

+j Dawg Bass trombones used to be longer than tenor trombones, even after valves were added to the back end of the instrument. For example, Bartok expected a bass trombone to be pitched in F _without_ a valve, leading to him writing a portamento that is unplayable (properly) on modern instruments. Bass trombones just being big bore instruments at the same 9 foot length as tenor trombones is a relatively recent development, so they have evolved to have somewhat different purposes. This is why we still bother to distinguish between them.

[@MeadFan]

@@mal2ksc Oh ok, thank you for clearing up the confusion. Dang, the things that aren't taught in schools these days.... Having a Bachelor of Science in music (emphasis on euphonium), even I wasn't aware of such facts.

[@cairoelliott4008]

well.. because its not a trombone, the whole point of a trombone is not having Valves, thus making it special enough to warrant having a name, im guessing this btw, but it makes logical sense

[@wyattwahlgren8883]

I played the baritone part in Lincolnshire posy on a euphonium. I hope he wouldn't hate me for that.

[@majcrash]

If you played it well, I doubt he would.

[@Mia-wz2he]

Wow I'm a fellow baritone player and I thought they were the same

[@paulroutledge4923]

I played baritone for a couple of years with the Brass Band of Minot and a couple of times at the International Music Camp (the 4 day adult camp at the end of July) when somebody has a baritone for me to borrow playing with the Brass Band instead of trying to play the 1st baritone part on euphonium. The Brass Band composers know what sound they want when writing both the euphonium and baritone parts. It should almost a crime trying to play the 1st baritone part on euphonium let alone its can be very taxing on the chops in my experiences! The euphonium playing the 1st baritone part can really overpower the horns in thinner voicing sections. I also played tenor (alto) horn once and that's different. I use my experiences of playing both instruments in nicely describing the differences between the baritone and euphonium. This still sadly includes music educators even at universities.

[@AKCEuph]

Paul Routledge it’s tough man, I don’t know how the misconception has grown so much but hopefully advocates of the instruments can help clear things up.

[@Skyisthelimit4me]

Here's the simplistic difference between the two... A Baritone Horn, most commonly pitched in Bb Tenor, is the baritone member of the Sax Horn family, which includes the Alto Horn, most commonly pitched in Eb Alto. They all have cylindrical tubing and similar shapes. A Euphonium, most commonly pitched in Bb Tenor, is the tenor member of the Tuba family, which includes the Bass Tuba in FF Basso/Contra Alto and Contrabass Tuba in BBb Contrabass. Any brass wind instrument that has conical tubing is a Tuba. Tuba is a complete line of instruments that serve different purposes. And no the Wagner Tuba in FF is not a Tuba, it is a bell top French Horn that is shaped like a Bass Tuba which is why it was named Wagner Tuba. In regards to cylindrical tubing versus conical tubing as far as size and why one is larger than the other while having the same pitch range and fundamentals, just think about Clarinets and Saxophones. Clarinets have cylindrical tubing and Saxophones have conical tubing which is why Saxophones are always larger in comparison to their Clarinet counterpart pitched in the same key. The size difference between the two is more pronounced and noticeable as the horns get larger and lower pitched.

[@dfox499]

2 weeks ago I got to explane the difference between the two to the community band I play in. Even our director didn't know the difference.

[@Octovol]

I actually find myself confusing a tenor horn with a baritone horn. As a baritone player myself i can quite easily see the difference between euph and bari, but tenor horn is almost identical in physical height to a bari so you really have to look closely at the bore of the instrument to determine which it is. For this reason It’s also difficult sometimes depending on the size of the person playing it, a large person playing a baritone might be mistaken for playing a baritone and vice versa.

[@massmanute]

With baritone being cylindrical, how does one differentiate the baritone horn from the valve trombone?

[@MH-iv7tk]

the shape

[@valbastiancontraio2795]

A baritone is more conical than a trombone and less than a euphonium, it belongs to the flugelhorn family

[@malachielmore-davis8642]

Would Baritones like the one had in the vid, have 4 valves? In the 3+1 system?

[@AKCEuph]

Yeah, the prestige baritone in the thumbnail has the 3+1 for example

[@d.schoepflin2247]

If you were in the JMU brass band, you're the one to ask; is the brass band as large as the marching Royal Dukes marching band or is it a bit smaller?

[@AKCEuph]

Massively smaller. College marching bands kinda operate (for the most part) in a "the bigger the better" mentality, so the MRDs are like 400 every year. While British Brass Bands (and even college wind ensembles) like to stay at a standard size for the ensemble. Most Brass Bands tend to sit in the ballpark of 32-40ish, I believe competitions like NABBA also regulate how many can be in a band in competition.

[@lovermuzak]

I thought they were the same instrument up until about last year. I am not sure I played both but I thought I did back in hs. The instruments I played both had forward facing bells and only one of them had 4 values.

[@jonaskaiser5798]

In Austria there 4 kinds of these thing. Theres a BassFlügelhorn what's the same thing as a TenorHorn A Tenorhorn is like a Wagner Tuba. And Bariton what's like a softer and richer Tenorhorn And a Euphonium. Very complicated 😅

[@jenniferhill2818]

I used to play marching baritone in high school. Is there also a marching euphonuim....or is it the same thing??? Are there two separate marching instruments (marching baritone and marching euphonium) or just one that would play either part??

[@AKCEuph]

Jennifer Hill there actually are marching Euphoniums. They typically are a bit taller/longer than a baritone. Drum Corps sometime use them to play a bridge part between baritone and Tuba, while baritone tends to be a higher tenor bridge to the mello. I’m not SUPER educated on it but that is my impression.

[@deoradh]

@@AKCEuph There are a couple different marching versions. I used to play the shoulder-resting YEP-201 from Yamaha in college, which had an interchangeable lead pipe to swap between upright (concert) and horizontal (marching) postures. It was a fun instrument with limited visibility, especially when the camera crew wasn't paying attention and you start marching right at them...

[@Skyisthelimit4me]

I think lack of proper training for SOME directors, conductors, concert masters and composers causes a lot of myths, misinformation and confusion among players when they refer to two different instruments as "the same thing". I can't tell you how many times I got yelled at by and argued with one of my directors in high school for telling my peers that the Euphonium and Flugabone are not "the same thing as a Baritone" and a the Marching Mellophone is not "the same thing as a French Horn". His response everytime would be "They are the same thing! They play the same notes!" My smart ass response would be "A Soprano Saxophone plays the same notes as the Soprano Clarinet but are they the same thing?" His termination of that argument was always "Zip it or go home!". As an adult I still despise that single minded son of a bitch. 😅🤣

[@prosperlost4046]

What's your approach to mouthpieces? Do you choose a shallower cup on baritone, for example?

[@AKCEuph]

Prosper Lost on baritone I tend to go with a smaller rim but similar depth cup. So let’s say I play a SM3 on my euph I’ll probably play a 4 on Baritone. Mostly because the parts are written higher and it saves some endurance.

[@OrsoGrigio74]

Sorry, Aaron... but the Baritone tubing is NOT cylindrical. It's just less conical than the one of the Euphonium. Otherwise, it would have been a convoluted valve trombone. Source: I own and play a baritone, some trombones, some trumpets ... and a caliper 😉

[@AKCEuph]

Thanks for checking out the video and the input!

[@drdishwasher3854]

I bought a yamaha silent brass euphonium mute for my baritone because I thought they were the same :(

[@ephronium]

i’m in 8th grade and i had district honor band on february 28th and 29th this year and i have state in april but sadly it was cancelled bc of the virus

[@peterbrockley]

The compensating euphonium has a range of four octaves, the baritone has two and a half.

[@AKCEuph]

Hey Peter! Thanks for checking out the video. There are compensating baritones that have the same range capabilities as the compensating euphoniums 😊

[@DNKG669]

brass instruments don't have a set amount of range I can play 6 octaves on a straight tenor trombone

[@ObrolKronckx]

would you advice a 3 or 4 valves baritone ? I'm playing the tenor horn but missing the full low register. Thanks

[@epxdem.s1829]

Jérémie Ninove the fourth valve helps to reach some of the lower notes by adding an octive length of tubing when u press it

[@mariaponciano1750]

What tone do baritones come in? How about euphoniums?

[@peterdegelaen]

Both the euphonium and baritone are tuned in Bb.

[@darriuscleman7932]

I play baritone myself

[@snakestabler]

What about the low ranges of each, dawg ?

[@AKCEuph]

Same range, compensating baritone and compensating euphs can both do the same. Now....the ease of playing in those registers or desired sound may vary.

[@snakestabler]

​@AKCEuph .. Thanks Dr. Dawg. I meant low register sound/audio comparisons. I'm an old drum guy being pulled into a hs program to teach all percussion ✅️ and their 8th Baritone players to be used in the hs marching show.😮 We have no tubas, only a keyboard bass thru a Roland KC500 amp. Trying to write/achieve low brass sound with smoke & mirrors.

[@gouellette4874]

Everybody keeps on calling my euniphomem a tuba

[@yummygirlypiegirl491]

*none.*

[@SuperJxl]

why do we have these when we already have trombones.

[@mikestang679]

How about talking about compensating and non-compensating euphonium's both can be 4 valves, you are a hand talker, most annoying to watch.......

[@AKCEuph]

Hey Mike, Thanks for the video idea, I’ll see about covering that in the future. Sorry the way I present myself isn’t pleasing to you. Just the way I am. Thank you for your input.

[@mikestang679]

@@AKCEuph Just kidding, hand talkers are everywhere, it's an extension of the brain/mouth connection....keep up the good work..........

[@fbi7756]

Next video difference between a mexican and a white person Nah I'm just joking I did like the video now i kniw the difference.