Digital Projector Knock Off Lamp Autopsy

[@Kujokouklos]

One of the most interesting videos the Master has ever produced and shared. Information that is almost impossible to obtain anywhere else. Thanks for sharing (and teaching) Frank!!

[@FixitFrank]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@maxwellonyx9559]

A trick : you can watch movies on Flixzone. I've been using it for watching all kinds of movies lately.

[@willhunter3571]

@Maxwell Onyx yup, I have been watching on flixzone for months myself :D

[@lylemaximiliano8756]

@Maxwell Onyx Definitely, have been watching on Flixzone for since december myself :)

[@fabricebeuriot7852]

L'une des vidéos les plus intéressantes que le Maître ait jamais produites et partagées. Des informations quasiment impossibles à obtenir ailleurs.

[@superskier2]

So you do get what you pay for. Cheap lamps spell trouble. Thanks for the video Frank and happy anniversary.

[@fares3651]

Good you shined some light on the topic Frank! Someone gave s knock off Acer lamp he told me it killed his ballast, I checked to see if it was shorted, it wasn't, then I checked the resistance and boom it was in order of Kilohms! It was the white isolation like you said, I hypothesized that the isolation is processed cheaply or not baked enough and still holding water which causing it to be conductive. I placed the bare bulb on a heat radiator over night, to my surprise it tested infinite resistance the morning! Tested it with a ballast without any issues, left it for a while to make sure it dries out. Unfortunately, two days later stored in it's box, tested about 20 MΩ, I'm guessing now that they used something they shouldn't have used in the mix, making the isolation act like Silica gel and suck humidity from the surrounding.

[@FixitFrank]

I am really glad it was helpful! This is a near and dear issue for me. You might be onto something with the Silica. I have proper high temp/high voltage cement mix and it has no silica what so ever. Its alumina based and is smoother than the mixes I see in the knock off lamps. This is a big reason why I say don't buy knock off lamp assemblies. Aftermarket/third party are fine as long as they have real brand bare lamp inside and have the proper IR filter lens.

[@chessguru900]

Decent piece of info. Interesting to see how meticulously and profoundly Frank goes into these things not miss a thing. Often times with knock-off lamps the wire comes off the tip of the acr-tube because of a poor arc welding, that is why they have a short lamp life too. I guess those who can't afford buying original lamps can buy original inside such as Diamond lamps, Golamps or V seven Lamps. They are perfectly safe.

[@FixitFrank]

Agreed. APOG too if you can find them. I wish I knew more of the players in Europe, but definitely Diamond, APOG. I am not familiar with Golamps or V Seven, but I trust your knowledge, and if they are also original inside, then I agree they should be reliable. I want to know who makes the housing with HBxxxx on them. I know US company Kennedy Webster bought or had a factory in China and I would see their assemblies with the HBxxxx but they weren't making the assemblies. I see those a lot.

[@chessguru900]

@@FixitFrank It's not called Apog anymore it is now golamps. apog stands for APO generics. made by apo international their HQ is based in Taiwan and logistics in honk kong and guangzhou in mainland china.

[@FixitFrank]

@@chessguru900 Are you sure? They are APOG in the states as of the other day at least. APO line is the generic line,. APOG is the genuine. All APOG-xxxx numbers use real bare lamps. They closed the hong kong location a few years ago and moved fully to Taipei. They also expanded into lithium batteries and aftermarket air filters. Maybe they have a different division in Europe/UK but in the states that is the situation now. www.apo-global.com/en

[@chessguru900]

@@FixitFrank Apo use oem lamp in a generic housing. I have known them about 11 years and I know some of their key members. I met them in china md amsterdam. those knock off lamps come from them too. the guys who runs that part has a big share in apo. They are a part of tecdata. Anglo american company french and germans have smaller share in it.

[@FixitFrank]

@@chessguru900 Are you sure you are not thinking of Diamond? They are affiliated with Tecdata/justlamps etc. Sales guy named Richard? Also, I found out these 2 lamp assemblies origins. The one with the label is a Discount Merchant Mitek junk and the other is from some ebay seller in China.

[@manofadventure2000]

I am glad i checked this video out, I ordered a lamp for one of my projectors that is generic I will test the resistance before I inevitably send it back.

[@FixitFrank]

Also be worried about the lens/IR filter. If its not the red/blue lens, dont bother using it. It will cook your optics and ruin the projector. I am going back over all my partial/unfinished videos and the sheer amount of melted/ruined optics was amazing and they were all due to these knock off lamps and the bad filter they use.

[@technoh7906]

Don't buy knock off lamps...good autopsy

[@treestandsafety3996]

Just bought a cheap bulb for my Optoma, will check it before installing.

[@valentisivanovich9831]

Your videos are always interesting!

[@FixitFrank]

Thank you! I appreciate it

[@AccoUnt-cs2ee]

Hi Frank, thanks for the video. I see you mentioned some recommendations for 3rd party Brands like Osram and Phillips and others? Do you have recommendations for reputable vendors who offer these?

[@randzb.techtalent]

Thank you sir for sharing this tutorials

[@FixitFrank]

You're very welcome

[@evertonfagner]

I investigate how works thae lamps to make a new utilization of projectors. Can u say me how the ballast understand that lamp works god to comunicate with mother bord? Or, whats information the lamp send to ballast when olding? Is it your stamina that has diminished? Tnks. Congrats to cannel!

[@hjvegter1824]

Great info again. Can you elaborate a bit about the wattage of the lamps? Can an Osram that has the same size but different wattage be replaced in a projector? Will it result in a broken projector or a less/more light because of the wattage difference ? Often is see different watt's replacement bulbs advertised for the same model projector but they have different wattage.

[@FixitFrank]

My personal rule is 25 watt up and 25 watt down (50watt variance) from the original lamp rating or the ballast rating. The ballast is what dictates the power sent to the lamp. The brightness is controlled by that mostly. Of course the condition of the lamp, it's age and the environment have some affect on that as well but mostly you can figure if you have a 220watt ballast, any lamp you install will be driven at 220watts. Using that wattage as an example, I would feel confident using a 245watt lamp or a 195 watt lamp and expect the same performance. Philips actually lists the range on their newer lamps. I see 170-245watt lamps from them. That makes the variance 75 watts instead of the 50 watt variance I go by. That may mean these are able to run 35watt up and down. I suspect that also applies to osram but I find that staying closer to the 50w range is more reliable with osram. Philips is a better brand really so I can see their lamps having a wider range. You can entirely substitute a philips for an osram and vice versa. It wouldn't make sense from a manufacturer perspective to have multiple production lines for 190, 210,230, 245,250 watt arc tubes. Rather have a 150-250watt arc tubes and then designate them as needed. Especially with the decline in new lamp models being made it just makes more sense that these lamps have a bit more range then is listed on the label. The main thing is that the light will be the same. Unlike old incandescent lamps, the brightness is dictated by the power sent to the lamp by the ballast instead of being dictated by the type of filament like in the old halogen lamps.

[@hjvegter1824]

@@FixitFrank Thx for the reply. That is some great info!

[@bronco9973]

Thanks Frank for this one, but whats better to buy, a separate lamp or a whole unit included with a lamp?

[@FixitFrank]

I prefer the full assembly with the lamp. It removes any chance of not installing it right, or forgetting something. It also makes it so you know the lens is new etc. maybe 10 years ago, the prices were high enough that replacing just the bare lamp was a viable option to save some money, but these days the cost difference averages $20~30 between a full assembly and just a bare lamp. Sometimes it is still cheaper for a bare lamp but then you also run into issues with some assemblies that have built in lamp timer chips and it makes it impossible to replace just the bare lamp because the projector will shut down or put itself into eco mode. The caveat to all of that is, it comes down to economics. The ideal option is a new name brand lamp inside a good quality housing. Always the best option, but also the most expensive. Not everyone has access or the funds to be able to buy something like that. Sometimes a knock off is the only option. Old Infocus for instance, has no name brand option and as many older DC lamps are no longer made, that might be the only option for a church, or someone with their first projector from a thrift store. My hope is that if someone wants to buy a knock off or cheap lamp, they are educated enough to know what hurdles they might face and if they have the ability, they could use parts off the old lamp assembly to improve the cheap assembly or move the bare lamp, etc.

[@bronco9973]

@@FixitFrank Thanks Frank for this clear explanation!

[@TallStarlite]

Perfect timing, I have a Optoma Gt1080 that I replaced the whole lamp & housing on (3-20-2021) from a reputable supplier which guarantees its a original Osram lamp. Well this morning it stopped working so I replaced it with the old one and the projector is working fine once again. The projector did not show any warning lights with the new Failed lamp which is king of weird the projector stays on and working while the lamp is off?

[@TallStarlite]

@FixitFrank I made a video if you'd like to have a look: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5PGqGOqqtumaMU

[@FixitFrank]

Jasper...I should have known. It "might" be a real osram. It also might be an osram reflector with an overseas special inside. Jasper plays the google ad game really well...That is about it. My guess is it's the IR block filter on the front of the housing. Did you also get the email from them where they wanted to sell you weird historical paintings? Why don't you email me. Some things I cannot post in public. [e-mail]

[@TallStarlite]

@@FixitFrank Hey Frank I just emailed you.

[@1969gawa]

Bought a used NEC M230X about 5 years ago. It ran well up to last week where the lamp failed to start. Bought a new 3rd party lamp with housing from what looks like a decent UK based company, placed it in the projector and it works fine ( I think anyway). Both the old and new bulbs look identical apart from the markings,both have no makers name that I can see on them either. Is it ok to trust that all will be fine as it is? Also, the new bulb smells a bit like an electric heater when it heats up, I assume this will go away after a while?

[@FixitFrank]

That is a good question. Many lamp assemblies will give off a smell but it should dissipate pretty quickly. You may want to remove it and just double check for any stickers or to see if the wire might be making contact with the back of the reflector. The NP15LP is an older lamp. Finding an original from NEC is next to impossible. If your lamp assembly uses an Ushio bulb, there should be some stamping around the white ceramic on the back that says NSHA230(maybe NSH230). If the lamp assembly has a silver barcode label with MPL-xxxx or APOG-xxxx that is a good sign. It really comes down to what you paid too. These run for $100~US, so I'd say if you paid around 150quid you should have a decent lamp assembly. The smell does worry me though. That should go away pretty fast.

[@1969gawa]

@@FixitFrank Thanks for the reply Frank. The old lamp had NSHAxxx etc on the ceramic part along with an 8 digit number stamped on the reflector but the new one,however, has no marking anywhere on the ceramic end and only the crossed out bin and mercury symbols along with the TOP word stamped on the reflector.

[@FixitFrank]

@@1969gawa Yeah that sounds like a knock off. With a 7 year old projector, while not the best option, if its working and the smell goes away soon, no harm no foul. That said, if you plan on keeping the projector or you use it regularly, you might want to see about getting a proper ushio loaded lamp assembly for it. It really depends on what you are using it for. I don't like knock offs(obviously) but I also get that sometimes its the most reasonable option. I figure if people weigh the pros and cons they can know if they are making the right choice. The main thing (Aside from damage) I have an issue with (for knock offs) is that even when they are cheap, they tend to fail at a higher rate than an original. so in the same time period you may buy 2-3 knock offs instead of buying one with an original lamp inside. ChessGuru made a post on this page with some aftermarket options that may be a good option for you if you decide to replace it with something else.

[@1969gawa]

@@FixitFrank It's a quandary right enough. I plan to use it over short periods here and there,no long viewing sessions. It only cost £150 to buy and the cost of a genuine lamp exceeds the original cost of the projector. The thing I can't get my head around,and I can only speak about the U.K here,is how can they sell potentially dangerous goods so openly? When you say about 'knock offs' I would assume you mean poorly made goods in countries with no safety standards,and are passed off as genuine and the like. The place I got this from and others like it all state these lamps are not genuine and are only compatible units.

[@WalkersLawn]

Hello FixitFrank, I believe I was sent a knock off lamp under the guise of an OEM for my Epson5050UB projector. I'd like to show you a couple of pic of the lamp. Is there a way that I can send them to you? Let me know. Thanks

[@FixitFrank]

Sure thing. My email is on about page about halfway down. I'd post it here but spammers always pick it up.

[@WalkersLawn]

@@FixitFrank Gotcha. I have that problem too. So, I will not put any information on social media that is not absolutely necessary. Anyway, I'll get those pic to you right away. Thank you!

[@WalkersLawn]

@@FixitFrank By the way, I sent the photos in a link as Gmail will Que large files and never send them. Thanks!

[@DigBipper188]

I'd be willing to bet the issue here's bad quality or damp cement on the lamps? It'd make sense considering the arc tube will be an open line unless something shorts it out (which is unbelievably rare), but the feed wires are in a similar spot in the base of the lamps... the only thing really giving them an opportunity to make contact would be moisture in the cement. could always test that theory out too by jamming one of these lamps in an oven at say, 180*c for a couple hours and see what that does to the resistance of the lamp after it cools. then leave it a while and see if the lamp remains good or if it picks up moisture and the resistance drops again.

[@FixitFrank]

I just that its easier/better to not trust unnamed lamps. You have no way to know if the burners are made right. some of these companies use KR85 gas to get around patents. New proper brands are not that expensive and since our projectors are not cheap, Id want to make sure that the lamp is good. I always say using cheap lamps is like putting walmart tires on a Ferrari. I thought moisture too but these were at least 8-10 months old. My guess is they used the wrong cement. There are multiple kinds and the aluminum oxide type is cheaper than the proper type.

[@DigBipper188]

​@@FixitFrank Could even just be really crap quality cement that has a tendency to go resistive with repeated HV pulses maybe? either way - I agree. If you're dropping the kind of cashola a DLP projector commands generally, $60 for a replacement bare lamp isn't a huge expense. It's definitely cheaper than replacing the lamp driver and the lamp at the same time when it eventually goes resistive

[@valentisivanovich9831]

And useful.

[@Synthematix]

I think china has done enough damage already, the word "safety" doesn't translate well in mandarin.

[@littlegeniusplayschool459]

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