Digital room correction

[@jamesramholtz3139]

Sorry to come so late to the party, but I just recently added miniDSP with DiracLive to my 2.1 channel system. I run both digital and anolog sources through an Emotiva PAT1 pre amp with the miniDSP between the pre amp and amplifiers .I spent the better part of a weekend setting up the DiracLive software which requires 9 measurement points (please note that's 9, not just one) all carefully positioned with a tape measure and a calibrated microphone, The DiracLive allowed me to create 4 different room alignments (flat response, bass emphasis, high frequency emphasis and a custom setting). I can choose between the settings in real time on the supplied remote control DiracLive is more than just an equalizer. It also corrects for transient ringing and time delay. I have been using DiracLiive with various types of music, and the effects are noticeable, and in some instances, amazing. DSP is the future. It may take some time and expertise to set up, but it is well worth it. With over 50 years experience in tweaking audio systems, the miniDSP with DiracLive is the only single addition that made a significant, noticeable and immediate improvement to my system. However, it is not a "plug and play" addition, as you need some basic computerr skills and patience to set it up.

[@cmessi]

But I did read the MiniDSP can only stream 48 khz max, instead of 192 for example. Is that not a problem?

[@ploog]

@@cmessi your ear won't notice the difference

[@johnhernlund539]

Others have already done it, including with analogue in+out...with amazing results. Buyers have options in the marketplace, if there is something they want they should do business with the companies that offer it. And if they move to that in large numbers, then other manufacturers will be forced to get on board if they want a piece of that market.

[@HennerZeller]

If you have your digital source on a filesystem somewhere and that is the input to what your D/A plays: I've written a filesystem stack that reads from that and behaves like a new filesystem with filtered files: you read them FIR-filtered on-the-fly without modifying the original files. Plug in the room filter you measured separately (impulse response essentially). All open source, called "folve".

[@ThinkingBetter]

Digital room correction can be the most awesome fix on what can’t get fixed otherwise but you don’t start with it and it’s best when the music is digital to begin with such you don’t have to go through an extra ADC.

[@sudd3660]

that is really well said. i also want to mention that use dsp on digital media, then have a separate analog path for those things. like a record player, riaa and preamp. in digital i would say works best with preamp and dsp in same box, perhaps source. then dac's after that. you can still use the same power amps, and dac's for both paths.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@sudd3660 Of course someone can make a great product combining the analog signal path and digital signal path involving a powerful DSP with switching after the DAC allowing both analog and digital to do its best. The problem in audio R&D is that innovation has evaporated and people are doing the same stuff as for decades. Search the patent portfolio for PS Audio and you will see what I mean. This is not a problem for PS Audio only but a problem for almost all higher-end audio companies.

[@DomSchiavoni]

Yea, im running TIDAL with USB digital out from my laptop directly into a MiniDSP w/DIRAC to handle all the EQ&Correction which outputs analog to the amp.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@DomSchiavoni I recently replaced my miniDSP 2x4 HD with the miniDSP Flex Eight for my desktop work setup. With this unit I have 8 outputs and can run active cross-over to my side two-way stereo speakers and subwoofer everything fine tuned. Furthermore, I have a DSP profile for my HifiMan planar headphones that runs configured in a preset so it’s super simple to switch between speakers and headphones and everything is calibrated on this one device. I have one vacant output that I decided to use to drive a giant VU meter decoration that also hugely benefits from the DSP allowing me much better visual effect of bass drums.

[@Duken4evr29]

Equalizer APO and REW are free. I use a HTPC to serve my music, the use of these tools with a $100 mic made a huge difference. The ear is the final arbiter though. I found a response curve while in the neighborhood of the target curve, that is not perfect sounds better.

[@cmessi]

Do they have automatic room correction?

[@Duken4evr29]

@@cmessi REW does, but doing it manually gives way better results.

[@cmessi]

@@Duken4evr29 so you run REW, with an UMIK mic. That gives a result. The result you enter manually in a streamer? Or do you have a MiniDSP?

[@Duken4evr29]

@@cmessi Set up a house curve in REW for it to target. Run the sweep in REW and export the resulting TXT file from REW to the EQ APO settings folder. Browse in EQ APO to those use those settings and there it is. To be honest, I got better results just running sweeps, going into the EQ screen with the house curve and manually making entries and correcting it myself. REW is complex audio geek nirvana and EQ APO is not too far behind as it is a parametric EQ with a seemingly unlimited amount of flexibility. I am an intermediate user at best, but that software really has made my system sound much better.

[@barneyrubble9309]

You add a high quality ADC to convert to digital....Lyngdorf have been doing it for a while and you can still tell vinyl from cd.

[@nikkitomwallace2613]

Lyngdorf does it better than anyone.

[@stimpy1226]

One of ROON’s features is a Parametric Equalizer which has many features that may helpful for room correction. My experience is that if used judiciously it may be very helpful. It is however sort of addicting and I wound up adding and/or subtracting too many changes over the audio frequency spectrum and this led to much unhappiness. Taking notes while you are using this equalizer is very helpful so you can back-out to where you were step-by-step when necessary if things start to get out of hand.

[@DomSchiavoni]

I agree that tinkering can be addicting & lead to unhappiness LOL, I've been in the middle of tinkering with a setup and think to myself, 'I'd really just like to be listening to Music right now!!!' I suggest measuring you rooms frequency response at your listening position with a quality mic. It is Very valuable to get a baseline of where you are at. Without this you are likely subject to large peaks&dips in the lower frequency range that have significant detriment to the sound. I use DIRAC(loaded on a minidsp) to help flatten out everything below 250hz and apply a house curve. It takes the guesswork out leaving more time to listen to music.

[@BlankBrain]

It would be possible to convert the analog signal to digital, compute filter values, and digitally control analog filters through which the analog signal passes. The computer would essentially design and configure analog circuits to provide correction.

[@PanAmStyle]

For room issues, why not just TREAT THE ROOM properly? This drives me nuts! People don’t want to do it, seemingly won’t take the time to do proper, research and I don’t understand that. For flaws in recordings, why not implement a circuit or separate module in or with, say, a preamp, that can do DSP but can also be switched out totally to preserve the analog domain?

[@ryacus]

Because it's not fesible for everyone.

[@PanAmStyle]

@@ryacus Understood, but understanding the underlying science and principles can improve one’s chances of doing what one can.

[@PanAmStyle]

@@sudd3660 Well, this is an audiophile channel …

[@DomSchiavoni]

Do you measure you room's frequency response at your listening position? Low freq issues can be tough to deal with using treatments...

[@pede8000]

Lyngdorfs RoomPerfect is amazing room correction.

[@steenj938]

That is absolutely correct 👍 Just love my TDAI-3400 ❤️ Lets face it: Unless you have dedicaded listening rooms, or perfect wives, this is the way to go! Sounds amazing 🙏😊

[@gejdfr05]

@@steenj938 same applies for the 1120? I'm looking at that amp... I wonder if it has the same digital sound system.

[@vlad3r_]

@@gejdfr05 I'm very happy with my 1120. I borrowed one for a weekend, and I had to buy it afterwards.

[@hanspetscher5770]

Bob, the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R has an analog input I hook up via the PS audio Stellar phono stage to my record player and this thing does for me exactly what you have been asking for. It digitizes the analog with 192kHz, internally 32 Bit floating point. Plenty of resolution. And I am not loosing anything I may be aware of. Sounds just great. Give it a try!

[@joakimsafstrom8405]

One of the best DSP DACs out there. Genelec also does a fantastic room correction on there studio monitors. "A powerful monitor-control networking system that manages speaker connectivity Supports up to 40 8200/8300 series monitors or 7200/7300 series subwoofers in any configuration GLM AutoCal provides automated measurement, analysis, and adjustment GLM controlled speakers Includes factory-calibrated Genelec 8300A acoustic measurement microphone GLM software features adjustment of levels, distance delays, and more If you're running Genelec SAM monitors, then you'll love your GLM system!"

[@miguelderivero]

Also use the same RME ADC connected to my Lyngdorf MP-60 and it is just phenomenal. Plug my phono pre to the RME and I don’t think I am missing anything.

[@hanspetscher5770]

Yes , going AD and then DA again seems weird, but the DSP in between just does it.

[@robh9079]

some of the newer dacs now provide eq. didnt paul say he was planning/thinking about an eq in PS transports that recognised a particular CD's and applied a programmed eq exclusive to that recording?

[@MickTimmy]

The best, and arguably cheapest, room correction is speaker placement and room treatment. IMHO.

[@graxjpg]

What do you mean by treatment? Some room correction methods are not cheap. What do you recommend?

[@limitlesssky3050]

Some of the best room treatment cost more than the speakers itself. The experimentation needed to make your room actually sounds good will craze many audiophiles. So I don't get your point.

[@MickTimmy]

@@limitlesssky3050 I guess I don't know what I'm talking about judging by your comment. But I can say that if you are purchasing the best room treatment, you have a lot of money tied up in your speakers and system. A couple diffusers and some damping panels go a long way to improving sound. That's a few hundred bucks. Moving your speakers around is free.

[@MickTimmy]

@@graxjpg that depends on what you consider cheap and how much you want to spend. A couple diffusers and some damping panels might be $200 - $400. Personally, I use neither DSP nor room treatment. It took me about a month of experimenting with speaker and furniture placement to get it right. Yes that is a while, but if someone is that impatient that a few weeks of less than "perfect" music is too much to pay, then by all means they can spend their money.

[@ryacus]

@@MickTimmy But how good are they is the material proprietary or hard to find? A lot of these panels seem easy to make if the material isn't artificially restricted via price or availability.

[@Another_Audiophile]

Technics did that with their latest integrated. I’ve heard it and I was shocked. Especially the phono stage with AD conversation. I find it also hard to do that but the proof was in the listening

[@edgar9651]

Were you shocked after you learned it's all digital or also before when you thought it's analogue?

[@Another_Audiophile]

@@edgar9651 I new it was all digital and that the phono input is converted to digital for eq and processing. I was shocked with the sound quality. It was fantastic

[@FrancisEVidal]

Linn does it in it's high end product...

[@sudd3660]

i would think that the solution is a dsp/preamp/streamer unit that also has ways to connect a turntable and let you toggle the dsp circuit. closest product i can think of is a minidsp shd studio.

[@laurentzduba1298]

The most important thing of all is find out first if you absolutely need digital room correction. Thanks to the good 30 day return policy of the products I've tested since 1998, virtually all of them are nothing more than a 12-band graphic equalizer that works in the digital domain which when tried in my system only created more problems than it solves.

[@graxjpg]

While I haven’t been testing things as long as you, I find EQs and room correcting software to convolute or complicate the whole thing. The idea of trying to get a speaker in a room to replicate a recorded sound accurately is complex enough!

[@mrronenza]

I think that in my McIntosh there is an audyssey option to adjust ...

[@AllboroLCD]

Ive been thinking about this much lately, how about a fully modular system Paul? Say start with a basic pre-amp enclosure, and have the extras on offer (DAC,DSP,CDTP,ICE Modules) . Dumb idea?? Yea, No?

[@jamapaza]

Look at Buchardt I150. It works great! A DSP in a amp is the future.

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

✋ YAMAHA ….has been doing this since the 80s…and it works wonders for those open-minded persons who want to try it and it has never been easier 😊😍😍😍

[@marcbegine]

The Aventage AV pre and receivers merry both Worlds ! In “pure direct” no processors are switched on!

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

True 👍 but most new ones don’t know the difference 🤔 YET😍😍😍

[@Roof_Pizza]

I'm tired of all these add ons that I'd never use. I don't need/want a tuner in my next processor nor do I want a 5th way to stream Spotify. Accuphase has some nice gear and some come with optional modules for DAC's and phono stages. Even if you bought their DAC I'm sure many would be keen on what's on offer down the road and just switch it out. My car has power mirrors and I set them once and basically haven't touched them since and it's been years. If a car company came up to me and said you could have a car without power mirrors and save 300 bucks I'd buy that model instead.

[@joz411no8]

Powered seats either.

[@anandshah71]

Sprout with Dirac AirPlay 2 and Hypex amp like Sprout Pro how does that sound

[@stimpy1226]

Hey Robert, as a side comment, I am a transplanted New Yorker living in the Fort Lauderdale area and having real difficulty locating true audiophiles. Do you have any affiliations with meet up’s or societies down here? I gave up looking along time ago. My only comment to you is never give up an analog input because for many years I let my turntable sit almost unused until about two years ago when I started listening to vinyl again and now I have three choices of source material. I still believe what my ears tell me and that is that vinyl rules at least at this point in time as do many other people. The resurgence of vinyl is not happening by accident. I was lazy too but not anymore.

[@spacemissing]

My system Always has a turntable, and it gets used often --- but not because records sound better than CDs, which they decidedly Do Not. The best use for a turntable now is playing what never has been and never will be available any other way.

[@stimpy1226]

@@spacemissing I respectfully disagree with you 100%

[@russmaleartist]

I understand business ethics and the refusing to compromise on principles; however, over time, manufacturers have taken a lot of control from the consumer in the manner in which the consumer can get involved in the process of sound . . . and in many ways, I do understand. However, I wanted an active system that was put together by me, with my choice of components, and a lot of room acoustics and timbre adjustments that COULD be fine-tuned by me. I even stayed with vintage speakers, that always had “good bones” to them, but weren't quite there . . . well, I have, according to those who have critiqued my speakers and system, do just that . . . and with that control, I can tweak or not to my heart's content to fine-tune a lot of disagreeable gremlins out of my music room.

[@edgar9651]

It seems like Paul would be alright if all would be digital. But he should better not mention that in public or many of his customers will go berserk... Thanks Paul.

[@JustinLoving]

Minidsp studio hd. All digital domain and includes a streamer

[@ThinkingBetter]

I use miniDSP products and love them but it's a great mystery to me and a bummer that the rest of the high-end audio industry is so incredibly oblivious to modern high performance audio DSP.

[@guywilloughby5443]

Doing the room correction from an active crossover would be a better idea. Very expensive solution.

[@akosinskiy]

System audio does that. Not that expensive.

[@guywilloughby5443]

@@akosinskiy An active crossover requires 3 power amplifiers compared to passive crossover speakers only require one power amplifier.

[@akosinskiy]

@@guywilloughby5443 My speaker has 4 of those. Check System Audio Legend Silverback 60.

[@guywilloughby5443]

@@akosinskiy Interesting speaker system.

[@timburton1080]

Yep. Genelec 8341 here, fed AES into the back of the speaker

[@hermannschmidt9788]

I am only using digital sources and I don't want an extra (room correction) device plugged into the chain, which introduces more noise and distortions. The only reasonable solution for me is to have the filtering done in the source itself, e.g. the computer streaming the data. Or: the data itself (the audio files) gets transformed into a filtered copy offline and then streamed through a standard setup.

[@bornwisedistruction]

I see a PS Audio video in my feed I start it and click like before the vid begins 😄😄

[@samgates2059]

Most modern pro amplifiers have dsp built in but that is not audiophile equipment.

[@davidfromamerica1871]

Digital Room Correction..LOL What will they think of next..?? How do you play a AM radio station in Hi Res.

[@Antoon55]

I'm happy with the DSP Roon provides..

[@stephensmith3111]

In a literally all digital world, organic life forms will probably no longer exist. Did V'ger in "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" (you old Trekkie, Paul) even process any music files? Viva analog!

[@dirkvanhees8655]

Just buy a Lyngdorf TDAI 3400... Roomperfect is the way to go...

[@LanciaD50]

is only 5000 gbp 🤣

[@steenj938]

Looooove mine ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Greetings from Denmark, the home of Lyngdorf 🙏👍

[@spacemissing]

I don't want room correction. There would be too much concern about its accuracy, which would interfere with my ability to appreciate what I was listening to. Knowing a room's acoustics are imperfect and tolerating it is SO much easier!

[@johnsweda2999]

Yes but can still control the analogue signal without it being converted to digital you can manipulate the analogue signal using DSP in the front-end you can analyse the signal but not actually have the signal going through digital sauce but manipulating the analogue sine wave in the analogue domain

[@veroman007]

In 50 years there will be room adjusted microphones built into virtually everything and we still won’t be happy. We are chasing unicorns folks

[@donpayne1040]

Good video.

[@vladimirrusev468]

the analog folks... ruin it all. I want timing and phase correction according to speaker in each dac 🙂 Room correction comes after that. Luckily there is at least miniDSP, but it could be more. Actually going activ and put the Xover in the digital domain and hook a multichannel dac to a multichannel amp. That has the potential for a real high end. Not caps for hunderts of $

[@ryankowalski3670]

there's no value in keeping things 100% analog. completely a myth. We have been able to record analog sources into high res digital and not one single audiophile has been able to tell the difference.

[@joakimsafstrom8405]

Just get studio monitors like Genelec with. Genelec GLM SAM Loudspeaker Management System

[@joakimsafstrom8405]

"A powerful monitor-control networking system that manages speaker connectivity Supports up to 40 8200/8300 series monitors or 7200/7300 series subwoofers in any configuration GLM AutoCal provides automated measurement, analysis, and adjustment GLM controlled speakers Includes factory-calibrated Genelec 8300A acoustic measurement microphone GLM software features adjustment of levels, distance delays, and more If you're running Genelec SAM monitors, then you'll love your GLM system!"

[@weetjewatikwil1]

No

[@dougg1075]

Makes sense