Digital Snare and Ride WITHOUT A Roland TD-50 or TD-27 Module | The eDrum Workshop

How to use the Roland digital snare and ride (PD-140DS and CY-18DR) without a Roland TD-50 or TD-27 module. Is it worth using the Pearl Mimic Pro or Superior Drummer with the Roland digital pads?
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[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Which module would you pair the digital pads with it they worked perfectly together?

[@TheDigitalMD]

Roland TD-50 Or TD-27

[@PEP.]

td17

[@RaymondNassar]

Hey Luke, I was thinking of getting a Pearl Mimic Pro along with a Roland digital snare. I am still in my first year of drumming, but have found the TD-17 to be really lacking, especially when it comes to sounding like an acoustic drumset and the fact that my current snare has a hotspot I constantly hit. Will using the Kenton USB MIDI Host with the Pearl Mimic Pro solve my current woes?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Hey! I'd recommend just getting a good quality analogue snare trigger for the Mimic. Ideally a side-mounted one to avoid hot spots. Although you can technically make the digital snare work on the Mimic with a MIDI Host, you don't get the full advantages and there's no way at all to configure the trigger settings so you can't adjust anything if it needs it. It's way more expensive than necessary for good results on the Mimic. It's a fun thing to do if you happen to already own all that stuff but I wouldn't recommend buying it solely for that purpose.

[@RaymondNassar]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop any recommendations on an above average analog snare? I'm currently running the PDX-12.

[@xTruthxWithinx]

I just got a VAD504 and this page has done 3 things for me 1. introduced me to the sound packs for the TD27 2. made me question if getting the Roland over an Efnote 7 with Pearl Mimic module was worth it 3. taught me how to actually adjust my settings in my module to make it not sound like crap. I wish Roland would employ someone like Slate to do the onboard sounds and kit configurations. Hopefully a Tama themed sound pack is in the works.

[@MeTuLHeD]

Cool video. I have used edrums off and on for years now, and currently use them almost exclusively in my studio to trigger sample libraries. And I have learned a TON of helpful stuff from your content. Thanks SO much! By the way...Peart is pronounced "Peert".

[@RobertBruins]

Hi Luke, I tried it yesterday. Hooked up the roland digital snare direct into the Mac using SD3. I have to say it works great. I was surprised that The rimshots work different than I use another snare true edrumin10. I set up my snare in that way with nog sidestick, using a bt1 for this. But on the rim I have the full rimshot sound so don’t realy need to hit the centre of the snare. With the roland digital snare it’s different. The rim has only the rimshot effect on it, so you need to hit the centre of the snare and also the rim to get the rimshot, so like a normal snare. This was a pleasant surprise for me because with some snare in SD3 I think there is not enough body in the rimshot sound, so sometimes I add a center sound extra on the rimshot for more body. But with the digital Roland I think this is not needed anymore because it blends a rimshot efffect together with the centre sound. I have not any idea how this works and why this is so different but it works. Best regards Robert

[@Ayr0music]

I can’t wait to try this!

[@JCReyesJCRACING]

Wow! This is great! Maybe it's high-time to grab a Roland Digital snare and ride to work on my Mimic Pro! Cheers, sir for this!

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Would you still be happy doing so with the downsides I highlighted? (Genuine question, horses for courses!)

[@bucknaked31]

Waste of money as you could take a cheap snare, throw 7 piezos in it and it will trigger the same.

[@tomengels9808]

I just saw you answered my question to another one. Bummer it doesn‘t work! Sorry for double posting this question!!!

[@482jpsquared]

Thank you so much for this very informative explanation. You covered all the bases and my questions and concerns on this configuration/application. Brilliantly done.

[@tomengels9808]

Hey Luke, thanx a million for all your great work!!! This really inspires me!!! Do you think the host port of an eDrumIn 10 would be able to give you access to the missing parameters (at least some like basic trigger settings or maybe even ps)? As you know, the eDrumIn can be adjusted to send out a midi note instead of CC for ps, so - in theory - if the PD 140 sends out standard midi notes for head, rim and cross stick, the eDrumIn could generate another note e.g. for the ps signal for snare edge. Maybe for a ride cymbal as well. I ordered an eDrumIn two weeks ago and I don’t own a PD 140, so it‘s all a guess… ;-) All the best! Tom

[@evilynux]

The snare not sending the CC messages when hooked to a computer: it would be interesting to sniff the USB packets being exchanged between the Roland module and the snare. I wonder whether the snare is a multimode USB device that just require some kind of magic control message in order to start "behaving" like we'd like it to. I've seen this before, first hand, for other kind of USB devices.

[@evilynux]

I should have written my comment after watching the whole video. Not owning a TD27/TD50 module nor a digital snare I can't say for sure, this is pure speculation. But if I were to implement this, based on you implying that the settings are not persistent, here's what I would have done. Something tells me the processing is actually done with a small processor or microcontroller in the snare. The configuration is most likely sent from the module into the snare (volatile?) memory once it's hooked up to the module, and once a setting is changed. This could easily be achieved with a control message (USB Request Block). Now, it doesn't mean that I could easily figure this out if I were to get my hands on a TD27 module and a digital snare. Roland may be using some kind of fancy authentication protocol like Sony does for PS4/PS5 peripherals and MS does for xboxone and later peripherals. Nonetheless, this would make for a very interesting project for students. Not sure I could justify spending public funds on this though. 😅

[@BFedie518]

7:00 The Mimic doesn't support aftertouch for cymbal chokes because Steven Slate Drums doesn't support it. That made using my TD-17 with SSD a pain until I found a workaround.

[@vinnied1854]

at 8.35 you talk about input jack, and trigger data, but it still has to be sent through the usb cable, only hosts can't read or handle it (i think)

[@imperial1371]

Great video ! thanx !

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thank you for watching!

[@jungleb]

THank you for your content!

[@clintonwalrath1333]

Interesting. Could you do the same thing with a Roland VH-14d hi-hat? Or would you lose a lot of the functionality of the hi-hat?

[@petergriffinelectricdrums4164]

BiG Thumbs Up 👍 buddy 😂👍❤️❤️

[@MightyTboneo]

Hi, you mentioned linking a TD-50 to a mimic pro directly via midi. Have you done a video for this? Many thanks

[@kirkdalager]

I’m playing through a Roland TD 20. I just got a Roland 140 DS and I’m waiting for a MIDI host in the mail. I’m really hoping this works😎. Anyone else have success with this combination?

[@fernandomacieira1775]

Hi Luke! Great video, as always. Have you tried to plug a digital snare on an Yamaha EAD10, using USB to host port as if it was a MIDI sender? Of course neither one of the devices are meant for that, I know, but I”ve seen some videos using the EAD to drive an ekit with low volume cymbals and - after seeing your video - that weird setup came to my mind.

[@downnorthmusic]

can we get an update on this for the vh-14d

[@DennisMartenssonOfficial]

So, if the digial pads just send MIDI data, that is then interpreted in the Roland module to enable stuff like positional sensing etc, it should be perfectly possible to write a simple VST that does that for you - Even exposing stuff like velocity curves and other trigger settings. Then you'd get all the articulations and trigger parameters you'd get by using a digital pad with a Roland module, without having to use a Roland module! Roland probably wouldn't like that though, I guess!

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I think it depends on exactly how that positional sensing data or the trigger settings are worked out between the pad and the module. Since the pads don't seem to send the PS data in an obvious MIDI format, I wonder if there's either some additional data that's locked behind a different communication method (maybe the pad needs a handshake from the module to send it), or whether the module still gets the pad's waveform data through too in order to do the PS analysis inside the module instead. The fact that the trigger settings are all still module-side and there seems to be "default" threshold/sensitivity in the pads that can be overridden by the module is what makes me think that the USB cable sends both MIDI and the analogue waveform. However, I could be way off! Without someone knowng exactly which methods are used for it all, it's hard to know whether it's possible to bypass the module for full functionality (and I don't think Roland would look kindly on anyone doing this since they have patents on their digital pads!)

[@shep00703]

Have you retried this after the Pearl Mimic Update?

[@chrisstrupp5737]

on the roland digital ride i remember they had some speacial stuff goigg in in the background to get extra sensitivity in the brain. Same as they have the static touch feature that mutes snare more as you make friction near head. is something they brought up in one of there videos

[@TheBiggerNoise]

Thanks for the video

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thanks for watching!

[@TheBiggerNoise]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Now that I'm at a real keyboard: I really appreciate the in depth look at this and knowing where all the corner cases are. Currently deciding if I want to expand & improve my Yamaha/Megadrum based setup or go straight to a Roland VAD kit. Since an 18" ride is definitely part of the dream kit, it's good to know that it's either ATV or all in on Roland.

[@geekazine]

Well done. I am not interested in how that Digital snare/ride is put together.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thanks! Would definitely be interested if someone with more knowledge could pick it apart!

[@DouglasLippi]

Interesting investigation. Might be a good backup option if someone spills a beer all over your TD-50 at a gig. Seriously, this is what I'd use it for. Definitely not my primary setup.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yeah, I don't really see much reason to do this outside of fringe cases. Keeping a show going with this as a backup would be a very noble use of this tech!

[@bufalohead1525]

Thank you for the video. I have a problem, help would be really appreciated. I was stupid and bought the digital 140 snare not knowing that it would not work with my TD25 module. Any work around so I can use it in my td25 module directly? Thanks a million

[@dannohite576]

What I'm interested in knowing, is the best way to slave my td27 into the pearl mimic pro and use all the digital pads. Including the hi hat.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

MIDI out from the TD-27 into MIDI in on the Mimic, set up the MIDI notes correctly between the two for the pads you want to trigger. There are 8 "MIDI only" triggers that can be used on the Mimic so that you can use the 27's inputs and still have other pads plugged into the Mimic. However, cymbal chokes currently don't work between the two modules (Roland uses aftertouch for this and while the new Mimic update added some aftertouch support, it's not working correctly between modules at the moment). You also won't get positional sensing on the ride or hi-hat on the Mimic either as it doesn't have support for it. Hi-hat should translate fine from the 27 to the Mimic via MIDI otherwise, but the Mimic's own hi-hat engine works best with its onboard sounds.

[@dannohite576]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop thanks for the reply! I know you've mentioned this info in one of your other videos. Kinda sucks this is the only way to use my mimic with my roland kit without switching a bunch of stuff around and just plugging directly in. I have other hi hats and snare, ride. Thanks again!

[@YeOldeMistyLady]

Hey Luke I have a TD27 and am looking to purchase a pearl mimic pro. I want to be able to utilise the full functionality of the digital snare and ride but with the sounds of the mimic pro. At the start of the video you state you do this using a midi cable from one module to the other. Is this easy to setup and do the digital pads still perform the same? Would I have to connect both modules to a mixer if I was using this for a live setup? Thanks in advance, any info will be greatly appreciated! I have learned a lot from your videos man keep doing your thing!

[@michaelcromer1564]

I have the same question. So did you end up hooking the mimic pro to the 27module with a midi cable?

[@maximo2112]

But I did'nt understand. If I use the TD-27 or TD-50 Roland module with my PC and a VST I can not use all the features of the snare and the hi hat?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yes, you can use these features when you have the pads with the module. This is just about using the pads _without_ the module.

[@MarkFarley-ji6jr]

Quick question, could 2 or more digital pads be used at the same time in Superior Drummer 3. If so how , could elaborate a little more ?

[@vcrosato]

what should I use to pair analog modules to mac for playing with superior drummer?

[@Colognedrummerboy]

Sorry this isn’t a question regarding the digital pads. . . Which ride sound are you using at 4:14 on the mimic? It sounds so good balanced between bow an edge!!!

[@maxdcmusic]

Surely someone has a software solution for this

[@TheBlocos77]

Ok well, it mean that it's possible to have the mimic pro snare sound with the PD140DS with midi connection.. No latency at all ? I would like to take a mimic pro and keep my TD27 especially for Roland digital éléments and mimic toms sounds who are way better in sound and dynamic than roland's

[@stevengonzalez4111]

Excellent advice and video sir. I own a TD-50 with a the TD50x software upgrade. I often get a snare triggered when I cross stick a bit too hard. Do you know how to fix that? Thank you for your videos

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thank you! Yes, if you go to the Trigger menu then press Page Down and go to the Rim tab, you can raise the "Xstick Threshold". I set mine to 127 and that stops any regular rim hits from triggering it at all.

[@brguns]

I use a Pearl Mimic Pro. If I buy a TD-27 module would be possible to use the Roland's digital ride, snare and hi hat with TD27 but somehow transfer this input to PMP? I would just use the TD27 to receive the digital input, but the main module would be the PMP. What that be possible?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yeah, it's possible if you send MIDI out from the TD-27 into the PMP and line up the note numbers but there are limitations. Choking the ride cymbal won't work properly though (currently, the aftertouch support on the new Mimic update doesn't work quite the same as it does on a Roland module so it still won't function correctly). The positional sensing will work on the snare now, though the volume compensation of the edge samples that's built into the Mimic's PosSense detection can make the edge samples sound too loud when I've used the digital snare over MIDI. With the snare, you also only get 3 distinct articulations - head, rim and cross-stick. The rim/rimshot detection that the Mimic can usually do with an anologue pad doesn't kick in because it's MIDI instead of a trigger input and the way Roland identifies the difference between a rim hit and a rimshot is by using position CC and the Mimic doesn't respond to that on the rim zone. These might be an issue for you or they might not. If you're getting all of the gear anyway, may as well try it out and see how you like it. I probably wouldn't purchase it specifically for this myself but it's up to you if that seems worthwhile.

[@brguns]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop thanks for this explanation. I guess it’s not worth it. I’ll keep just the PMP for now. Maybe in the future, the new PMP would be able to handle digital pads.

[@pabloagredaayala9724]

Hey luke I understand positional sensing won't work due to the lack of cc data but what about the note positional sensing option that you have with an edrum in? It doesn't requiered cc data

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

The eDRUMin outputs this by analysing the analogue signal and using its own positional sensing algorithm on that. It can't process the signal from the digital pads in this way, it can only receive the MIDI data from the pad like a computer would. So functionally I don't believe there is a difference between plugging the digital pad into an eDRUMin or a computer.

[@drummermarsian3394]

What if you use the same method with a Roland TD30 module?

[@Ayr0music]

So.. can i use the td17 with the kenton to use the digital snare as a midi?

[@Ayr0music]

Nvm just understood what he was trying to say, my only hope is using both the snare and the module as midi on my daw and hope they both are able to work alongside each other as a full kit. 🥲

[@WILLNO]

Can you play the 2Box DrumIt 5 MKII (work well )with the Roland PD-140DS Digital Snare Pad and Roland VH-13 V-Hi-Hat? I have a old 2box drum set , but love to ad roland snare n hi-hat if it work well togheter. Thx for video and all Love Ville

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I would assume so, with the Kenton Host for the digital pads (though you'd need to update the Kenton to allow a USB hub to use both at once) or by sending the MIDI from a Roland module that supports them. However, I've not tried it myself so can't guarantee - I don't know what the 2box's MIDI implementation is like. As for the VH-13, I hear that the MKII is meant to have better compatibility for Roland pads, but again, never tried it myself so don't know for sure. You'd have to check the manual or ask about on their support forums/groups to check with users to be sure. Sorry I couldn't help more there!

[@DrewShreveDrums]

The digital snare seems to have difficulty when paired with Superior Drummer 3 in regards to separation between rim clicks and rim shots, or shallow rim shots vs deep ones. This happens whether I run through my TD-50X model first, or go directly in. I had hoped that SD3 finally adding a preset for the TD-50X instead of only the TD-50 might fix this, but no luck….or I’m just setting something wrong. Any advice? Second question, do you think this method would work to add more than 3 digital triggers? Like, could I buy a second or third digital ride and get the aftertouch benefits of it on all my digital cymbals?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

The rim click/rim shot distinction is handled by the positional sensing. CC16 is the CC number that affects snare head and rim and it's this that will let you access it when sending MIDI to the 50 or 50X module. I don't know if SD3 has the ability to map this for rim clicks and shots or not though. The pad on its own doesn't send PS information either, so you could only do it with the module even if SD3 can utilize it. The 50 map will be the same as the 50X map. The only difference I can think of between the two is that the 50X can use the hi-hat's positional sensing but I think that the original 50 would have still read this information even if it couldn't use it internally. You could buy additional digital pads and use them straight into the computer as their own MIDI devices, yeah. I don't know if SD3 lets you use multiple MIDI devices at once or not but if it does it should technically work. From memory, aftertouch is sent but PS won't be (haven't done this in a while to confirm, the video might contradict me, I can't remember!) But you get no control of the trigger parameters without the module in-between which really isn't ideal.

[@DrewShreveDrums]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop This is super helpful! I found a hack online with someone using velocity gates in SD3 to make the softer hits on the rim shot zone only rim clicks, which isn’t the ideal workaround but does seem to be very effective. Picking up a used second digital ride pad on a deal and I’m gonna see how it works as a second cymbal with aftertouch. I really love being able to softly mute the cymbal in SD3 and if I can use extra digital rides to make all my cymbals have that, it’s gonna be a gamechanger. I’ll let ya know how it plays out!

[@ladanzza]

Can you try the digital hihat using roland module and pearl mimic? I have my td27 and I am thinking to get mimic again but to use the digital pads which in the past works, but now I have the digital hihat Thanks luke

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I don't have a VH-14D myself so I can't easily test this. I imagine that it would work to the same capacity as the other pads - you would either need to use your Roland module to MIDI out to it or you could use another device, but you won't get the ability to change any trigger settings without the Roland module. You wouldn't get any positional sensing from the hi-hats on the Mimic and the hand-choking won't work on the Mimic either. The hi-hat control messages for open/close should be fine, but the Mimic has a pretty good hi-hat engine in it already which works better with the inputs than it does with incoming MIDI (though it's not hugely noticeable). So it's a pretty expensive endeavour for minimal gain, really.

[@RefugioDrummer]

I saw you connected the Pearl Mimic PRO to the digital snare using the midi device. My question Is.... The Roland TD-17 could be connected as well?. Thank you.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yes, you can do this with a TD-17. In fact, I made a video doing exactly that (if you haven't seen it already) - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHLPmoCrr9-ep6c

[@DanteArista]

Can you connect the digital snare in td17 without td50? i mean, in the same way you connected the mimic pro

[@argum27]

does it work with the module Alesis Strike pro ??

[@hifinphoto]

There is no need for a Midi hub or a computer to make digital pads work with analog modules. All you need is a USB DAC.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Have you done that yourself?

[@hifinphoto]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Yes, I'm using a PD-140ds with a TD-30 (analog) module

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

@@hifinphoto Interesting. What DAC are you using?

[@MarkFarley-ji6jr]

@@hifinphotojust out of curiosity what kind of DAC are you using?

[@jimpopejoy1516]

Hey, love your channel. I recently bought a used CY18DR, but it came without a connection cable. Will any USB extension cable work? I have a TD27 module, so have the digital in.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

I imagine any standard 2.0 extension should work, but I've not tried it myself to confirm.

[@jimpopejoy1516]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop thank you. I’ll try one and let you know.

[@jimpopejoy1516]

It appears that any USB extension cable will work. The TD27 recognized the digital input immediately, and all seems to be working fine. I need to continue to put it through its paces, if anything changes, I’ll let you know. Have a great Sunday!

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Great stuff! Thought it should but nice to have confirmation. Cheers for that, you too!

[@Bcwilderness]

hey dude do you session online for a hybrid project quite soundgarden but dubstep in parts, if interested can talk, j

[@stevefoisy9139]

Hi, i don't have any roland module but is it possible to plug a snare roland pd 140 ds in an alesis stike multi pad. Is it functional? Thanks

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

No, not compatible. The PD-140DS only works natively with a Roland TD-27 and TD-50/50X, or in a limited capacity with a USB host. I don't know for sure whether or not you could do it with this USB MIDI Host workaround because I don't know if the Strike Multipad supports MIDI over USB, but it wouldn't really be worth it even if it did.

[@randalscandal1588]

Any updates on positional sensing now that Pearl does support it?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

The digital pads still don't send the positional sensing information if you're not using them with a Roland module, nothing has changed there. If you do send MIDI from, say, a TD-50X to a Pearl Mimic Pro, the positional sensing does work between the two. However, there is a quirk - the positional sensing algorithm in the Mimic compensates for the velocity difference between the centre and edge of the pads and actually increases the volume of the "head side" samples a bit. The Roland digital snare has a completely even response all the way across the head, so when you send the MIDI CC16 from the Roland module to the Mimic, the "head side" samples end up a little disproportionately loud due to this.

[@theundercoverscene7247]

Nice experiment. I would always go for best playability/reliability. I was wondering how the velocity levels of the digital pads are transferred from the Roland module (TD-50 or 27) to midi data in software as Superior Drummer 3 or Addictive Drums 2 (I use the latter). These levels in the module are form 0 to 127+32, whereas normal analogue pads go from 0 to 127. But in my DAW I see digital snare notes going up to max 127. Does this mean the "+32 info" above the 127 is lost (like clipping or compressing)? Or does the pad or Roland module interpolate the info before the midi notes are send out (for example 127+32 is send as a 127 velocity, and 127+1 as approx. 102)? Thanks!

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Thanks! It's interesting how it handles it actually and I only realised it a while ago. It sends the +32 velocity as MIDI CC data. Off the top of my head, I think it's CC 88, but have a look through the CC channels of your captured MIDI and I'm sure you'll spot it. I didn't look into exactly how they work it out but presumably they just divide the 128 values for that CC into 32 equal parts and use that to determine which of the + velocities it's at. I don't know if that would be particularly useful for any other software since it's unlikely to be set up that way, but I suppose you could technically control anything that can receive CC with that additional data! Could be fun to do something weird with it.

[@theundercoverscene7247]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Thanks for the quick reply! Appreciate it 🙏🏻. Sounds interesting. I’ll have to dive into this a little more. Cheers!

[@theundercoverscene7247]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop True, it is CC 88. The hi-res info gets registered in Garageband, but the midi notes from 127+0 to 127+32 are all recorded as 127 (so you miss a lot of dynamic range). You can avoid that by turning off the hi-res velocity settings in the midi menu on the TD-27 module (so it becomes similar to an analogue pad, midi 0 to 127). As far as I know, there is no drum software on the market yet that can register the +32 velocity parameters in midi. We will have to wait I guess. I've contacted the Roland support. They say you can best turn off the hi-res setting. If you also record audio, the quality of the digital pad is not affected by this, as long as you record with 96kHz or above. Well, just wanted to share this with you (and who reads this). Cheers!

[@bucknaked31]

It has to be transmitting the data out of that USB port somehow... have you looked to see if there’s any system exclusive? Has anybody looked to see if there is also audio being sent? Does it function as an audio device as well as MIDI?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Yeah, it's sending MIDI out of the USB. I'm not super savvy when it comes to testing out electrical connections/components in that sort of way, so I've not done any detailed tests. I do get an inkling that maybe the audio is also being sent though, I think that's likely to be how it's still achieving positional sensing when plugged into the module. Would make sense as why would the MIDI not contain PS data if the pad did it? And the PS detection is based on the waveform of the audio. This might also be why I get ever so slightly lighter hits out of it when on the TD-50. It doesn't function as an audio device too though, no. It just goes straight into class compliant MIDI mode. Maybe if there was a proper driver made for it, it might be able to function as such. Great questions, thanks!

[@bucknaked31]

The eDrum Workshop Drag about it not being audio... the data has to get to the Roland somehow... figuring that out is gonna be the trick. Gotta snoop on that USB data stream, that’s where the details are. I’m guessing that the output of the center cone and the piezo under it are being used for PS and the 3 cones on the outside are for picking up the head strike.

[@gtrdrumsplayerduarte]

www.hobbytronics.co.uk/usb-host-board-v24?keyword=Midi Or make one on the cheap :)

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Of course, if you're happy to make one, that's always an option. I would have bought the pre-assembled version from them as it appeared to be the best price and a good business but they no longer sell them. I'm not the best at assembling these kinds of things so I'd prefer a pre-built option. I also tried the Miditech one but it lagged.

[@stevelk1329]

Can I use the Kenton module to connect a pd-140ds to a v20 module? I know I can't get all the functionality.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Do you mean TD-20? If so, technically yes. As you say, it's not full functionality and definitely not worth it unless you just happen to have both around.

[@stevelk1329]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop sorry I didn't reply earlier. Yes I did mean the td-20 module, sorry.

[@frankluebke1872]

It's possible with the drum module Roland td30?

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

Technically possible using the same method as I used on this video, yes. But it will still come with all of the same limitations that I outlined on this video - you will have no trigger settings to adjust the playing experience or to dial out cross-talk or vibrations, the positional sensing will not work and the distinction between "rim" and "rimshot" on the snare also won't work (because that is part of the positional sensing). So I don't think it's really worth doing it, you'll get better results with good analogue pads.

[@frankluebke1872]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop Thanks for explanations 👍😁

[@davefiano4172]

Still waiting for someone to say the Roland digital pads are “next level”.....

[@adamklein9320]

Next level 😁

[@stevelk1329]

If they sell the drum by itself then it should work as well with any module as it does with the same brand module as the drum. If they remove some features that's bad but if they do what you're saying and "detune" it - under the covers so to speak - that's much worse; that's tatamount to lying or stealing imo.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

What? It works fine with the only modules that it's specified to work properly with. Suggesting that it "should work as well" with Roland modules that don't even have a USB port to plug them into is bizarre. It's very clear that they're only meant to work with particular modules and these methods are workarounds that exploit a particular set of features which work when a computer is involved (or another module or USB MIDI Host as a stand-in). Roland don't market that it's supposed to be compatible with a computer in the first place so I don't really see what your point is.

[@stevelk1329]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop "what?" yourself. When did I say that it should hook up to a module that doesn't even have a digital input? Implicitly it should not without the converter. The point is is that I think most people who buy this drum alone are probably not planning, at least initially, plugging it into a td27 or td50 Roland module. I understand it may not have all the features available to the Roland module (it may not work quite as well), but if Roland detunes it so that only their module can produce all of the say, dynamic range, as you allude to, I think that that is disingenuous. Also, imo, position and other feature data should also be available (ie sent) to non-Roland modules - at least the MIDI data - which I couldn't see. The drummer could work with what is given. If after tweeking it is not able to work as well as a connected Roland module so be it, but at least send all the MIDI data out from the snare.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

You didn't explicitly state it, no. But using this "with the converter" is only something you would do with a module that doesn't natively support it, so it's effectively the same thing, right? This converter is a workaround that isn't an intended use for the product, it's an incidental one because of the way the product works. If Roland were selling their own USB Hosts and saying "use this with our digital pads to have them on other modules" then I think you'd have a point, but they don't mention any use case outside of plugging it into the TD-27 or TD-50/X (as far as I'm aware). The idea that "most people who buy this drum alone" are doing so to use with another module or computer is surely just speculative? I don't think I've personally seen anyone talking about purchasing one without a compatible module except for the few cases where people haven't realised that it's not compatible with other modules. I'd personally put that down to lack of research because I don't think Roland have mislead anyone to believe otherwise, but maybe there's a lack of clarity around them that I'm missing? I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding what I meant about the pads by saying that Roland have "detuned" the pad? I don't think I've used that term anywhere. My guess (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you're referring to my mention of it it seeming like there's an "inbuilt" threshold so I can't quite hit the low dynamics without the module, and then the fact that you have no trigger settings when you hook it up this way. I personally think that's understandable as it needs those settings to be adjustable, as does any analogue pad. It just so happens that other modules can support analogue pads, but not these. And why would they provide access to those settings for a method they never claim to support? I suppose the low dynamic issue might not happen with an analogue pad in all cases, but you can lose access to dynamic range if you have no sensitivity or gain option. As for the positional sensing - I would like that to be available too. However, there might be a reason that we're not privy to because we don't know exactly how it works. I've speculated a few times when discussing this in other places that the actual position calculations might be done in the module rather than in the pad itself. It might be that the data is sent through the pad but the interpretation of that data is done on the module (there are still scan time settings for the digital pads in the module and this can play a role in the positional sensing). I can't know that for sure so it is unfounded, and a few other people think otherwise, but I personally would find it odd for them to specifically lock off positional data over MIDI but not anything else if the pad is doing all of the work. Your final point about the tweaking is sort of the entire thing - there are no tweaks available without the 27 or 50 module, so there isn't really anything that can be done to accomplish what you're looking for.

[@stevelk1329]

@@TheeDrumWorkshop If they sell the drum by itself they should be expecting people to hook it up to another sound module and therefore should provide all the data, eg position. Change channel numbers Etc as you will but at least send all the data. Otherwise people will just be disappointed they cannot use it with their modules. They'll probably think mitty's broken either on a device or in general . They should just say to the people just save up and get a module from roland that supports all the features. Why is it an unreasonable to expect them to at least send all the midi data out? Even if the channels are different or the order is changed or something at least all the data should be there. Roland advertises themselves as 100% midi class compliant and also that they are one of the inventors of midi. Yet they Obscure and obfuscate the very data that they're supposed to be using with agreed upon protocols. Money Will still try the TD 20 with the USB host and the DS 140.

[@PaulHariuPowell]

I’ve only owned my PD-140ds for 2 years and the foam cones (sensor cushions) are already shot/dried out! For as much money as Roland overcharges for their products, you would think they would use a longer lasting material for the sensor cushions... but then they wouldn’t be able to charge you $300 for the snare’s replacement basket, even though all it only really needs is new cones that cost them 50 cents to make. Roland should be ashamed of themselves.

[@TheeDrumWorkshop]

That's a shame, not sure why that is and I'm sorry to hear that. I waited until I opened mine up again to reply to this, but I've had mine since 2017 and looking at the cones now, they're fine. A bit dusty, but not perished (though there is a little rust on two of the screws holding one of the touch/static sensors in place). I've seen photos of someone else's perished cones side by side with a brand new trigger basket and can see how bad theirs looked. I was told they'd had it since 2019, so really not a long time. I wonder why there's such a discrepency there with the length of time it lasted compared to the one I have. Maybe something has changed since I bought mine like the materials or maybe it's something to do with the environment they're kept or used in? Either way, I'd be as annoyed as you if mine had deteriorated so quickly. Roland gatekeeping their spare parts like cones etc is outrageous, I agree and I don't think such anti-consumer practices are good for any industry. I think the centre cone is a standard size that you should be able to find spares for (drum-tec have some, I believe), but not sure about the smaller outer cones.

[@TJ-eq6dl]

Horses for courses.